A question of wealth.

[Cour]

Originally Posted by chiliD

Show me ANYONE who weighs 500 lbs who's "healthy". Or, for that matter, over 250 lbs.

Okay, okay.......how bout....100 lbs and 200 lbs? Nah, still not healthy. Well, you know what I meant!

[hayley]

Originally Posted by Cour

Thanks, I understand most of that and knew about artists owing the record companies for past projects, which is what I was trying to say about Lindsey in the DR documentary. I just don't know how she could average between approx $3-5 per cd after production costs and 2 videos. She did spend a lot of time in the studio (first with Dallas Austin) and then with Sheryl making the cd and those videos cost a pretty penny also. I was just curious how she could have gotten to that type of payout after expenses.

Also, doesn't the record company protect itself on the back end and try to recoup a certain percentage of the advance if the sales don't reach a certain level?

My original post said that I was being "generous" in saying she cleared $2-3M. I don't know exactly how much she made, but I'm really willing to bet that it was about $1.5-2M... sometimes it's easier around here to be unrealistic than have to explain these kinds of deals over and over, and defend against people who would be shocked that Stevie doesn't make a gazillion dollars from her records.

She has excellent management that's more than likely negotiated a great deal for her at Warners. She more than likely paid for the majority of the recording costs herself, as smart, established artists generally do, so she probably didn't take a ridiculous advance, which gave her more to clear off the unit price.

Just as an FYI, the cost to retailers to buy copies of TISL was around $12 before any deals. The record company generally stands to clear around $8-$9 of that per unit. A $2.50-$3.00 recoup isn't unheard of for an artist of Stevie's caliber.

You also have to understand that Warners is willing to work with Stevie, give her more money, better leverage, and a good deal for a reason- they like to stay on good terms with her because of her association with Fleetwood Mac. They wouldn't mind not having a huge moneymaking record in return for the success of the Dance and the FM catalog, not to mention the possibility of future releases. They were attempting to do the same with Lindsey and his solo project until the newer regime came in and basically decided that that relationship wasn't worth coddling him over and losing that kind of money.

[The Tower]

Originally Posted by sparky

LIVING in a 5k a night hotel is idiotic and self indulgent no matter how much money a person has. Rent a furnished house. Hire a cook and a maid. There's a difference between being able to afford 5k a night - for months at a time, and just throwing money out the window. I am sure his accountant was having a heart attack. It's so unnecessary to throw money around like that. It seems out of character - you don't get money by handling money in such a manner. Preposteruous when you can rent a furnished mansion and have hired help for about 1/4 the cost monthly. Whatever. It's like leaving the faucet on all night just because the water works.

[sparky]

Originally Posted by dissention

The design bill for that house alone would be astronomical. I think it's safe to say that he spent between $8-$10 million on that house.

Oh, easily. A friend of mine is in a firm that did a house about a mile away. The people owned the land. It had 20% more sq footage than the house in question, and a pool and guest house. The decorating costs ? 2 million. The budget for the entire job ? Between 12-15 million. They weren't done when I went to the opening party, and they were past 13 already. A spanish, two story house, similar to Lindsey's. 8 would be a bargain.

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by Cour

I think any manager who's worth their money would tell their client the truth and the weight issue is much more prevelant today than it was back when this happened. A manager is supposed to look out for their clients best interests and if journalists are pointing out the change in her weight and appearance than IMO the manager has a responsibility to tell their client the truth. If they're not telling her the truth than she has the wrong manager. I think it would probably be easier for a woman to tell another woman than it would be for a man to do it. But then again, some men

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't this happen during the downturn in Stevie's career and when she was under the influence of the Klonopin?

Oh and since it's been that kind of day here I don't care if she weighs 500 lbs or 100 lbs as long as she's happy and healthy. I'm only responding to what I see as the manager's responsibility.

I just watched a doc on the Health Channel with Ann Wilson and she said she was constantly pressured in the 80's-90's to lose weight by her management becuase they told her it was hurting the band.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

But I think the use of the word "flop" is a bit extreme when discussing a tour that grossed 8 million dollars, and inherently a statement like that is bound to cause people to disagree (and then, as so often happens, they're accused of being blind to reality).

It's certainly not the highest-grossing tour Stevie has ever had, and it's definitely not in league with the kind of numbers Fleetwood Mac typically does... but a "flop" it's not.

Maybe your idea of a "flop" and my idea of a "flop" are two different things. But I've certainly never considered anything that grossed millions of dollars, to have been a flop (and that includes 'Tusk').

Sorry, it was a flop, IMO. She was coming right off the HUGE success of The Dance and the tour failed to even break $10 million. It was a success in the sense that she was in top form and the songs were fantastic, but a financial success? I'd have to say no.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by hayley

I'm not sure if Diss was referring to the actual box set or to the tour, but neither were flops by any means. I posted numbers earlier that Enchanted has sold around 150,000 copies, which is by no means a flop, for a box set. Those are good numbers. And the Enchanted tour did quite well. Better than the TISL tour.

There are charts out there that show all of the tours from '98 and their grosses, Enchanted made $8 million and if I remember correctly, TISL made $14 million. Not sure about TISL, though.

[HomerMcvie]

You hit the nail on the head, or rather, the black on the chiffon.

I told ya all before, never say anything that could EVER be construed as negative about the Queen of Velvet Fountains and Fairy Farts.

(for those who can't tell, that was a joke)

Ya know, I've typed RAOTFLMFAO before, but it wasn't literal...........but,
I'm RAOTFLMFAO! I'll bet the neighbors even heard me laughing.
And why does she emit bell like noises in the middle of the night? What the hell's she eating?
Ding dongs!

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by dissention

Sorry, it was a flop, IMO. She was coming right off the HUGE success of The Dance and the tour failed to even break $10 million. It was a success in the sense that she was in top form and the songs were fantastic, but a financial success? I'd have to say no.

I guess I just don't have what I'd consider to be unrealistic expectations of Stevie's recent solo tours matching the earnings of something like 'The Dance,' especially given the fact that it was the first tour the 'Rumours'-era lineup of Fleetwood Mac had embarked on in 14 years.

Hell, I'm impressed that the 'Enchanted' tour did as well as it did, given that Stevie had hit pretty much all of those cities just one year prior, and with Fleetwood Mac, to boot!
Granted, she most likely benefitted from the fact that not everyone was able to attend the Mac shows... but, on the flip side of the coin, how many people stayed home because they had already seen her with Fleetwood Mac just less than 12 months beforehand?

So, no, I don't consider a gross of 8 million dollars for her solo tour to be a "flop," no matter how successful 'The Dance' was for Fleetwood Mac as a reunited group.
Was it as financially successful? Of course not... that much is obvious.
But it most definitely wasn't a "flop" either.

[amber]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

I guess I just don't have what I'd consider to be unrealistic expectations of Stevie's recent solo tours matching the earnings of something like 'The Dance,' especially given the fact that it was the first tour the 'Rumours'-era lineup of Fleetwood Mac had embarked on in 14 years.

Hell, I'm impressed that the 'Enchanted' tour did as well as it did, given that Stevie had hit pretty much all of those cities just one year prior, and with Fleetwood Mac, to boot!
Granted, she most likely benefitted from the fact that not everyone was able to attend the Mac shows... but, on the flip side of the coin, how many people stayed home because they had already seen her with Fleetwood Mac just less than 12 months beforehand?

So, no, I don't consider a gross of 8 million dollars for her solo tour to be a "flop," no matter how successful 'The Dance' was for Fleetwood Mac as a reunited group.
Was it as financially successful? Of course not... that much is obvious.
But it most definitely wasn't a "flop" either.

You know diss is just going to keep saying "flop" at you anyways. And then the scintillating "flop, not flop" argument will go on and on...just saying.
Amber

[The Tower]

Originally Posted by dissention

It doesn't help that he's smoking a big joint in it, either.

A joint?!?! I don't think so. I saw him smoking a cigarette, but not joint.

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

I was under the impression that there are no royalties played when a song is performed live, only when they are used in a media performance.

Nope. If you play someone else's song live and earn money- ya gotta pay the songwriter.

Originally Posted by Cour

I'm not sure whether Stevie was paid by Destiny's Child for them using the riff in the first place.

Yep. Ya gotta pay for samples these days. They haven't been free since the early 90's.

Originally Posted by dissention

Unless a live show is recorded and sold as a video, CD, or DVD, no royalties have to be paid if someone covers a song.

Nope. If ya play it, ya gotta pay. Unless you get permission to play without paying, which happens.

Originally Posted by diamondsnake

And Fleetwood Mac would have never even been mainstream popular if not for Stevie's Rhiannon single. From what I have read, everyone credits that song with the success of the white album and how it secured the success of rumours.

Nope. I think FM's popularity with the mainstream should probably be attributed primarily to Christine's "Say You Love Me", "Over My Head", "Don't Stop" and "You Make Loving Fun".

Originally Posted by David

I thought Front Line (Howard Kauffman) was the guy she fired?

Howard Kaufman is her current manager and has been for the last ten years or so, if my memory serves me correct.

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by amber

You know diss is just going to keep saying "flop" at you anyways. And then the scintillating "flop, not flop" argument will go on and on...just saying.

Yeah, it's yet another of the classic "tastes great/less filling" type debates/arguments that we seem to have around here so very often!

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

Originally Posted by The Tower

Howard Kaufman is her current manager and has been for the last ten years or so, if my memory serves me correct.

Sheryl Louis is her current manager

Pip

[BrokenWing]

You know, the incredible irony of this whole discussion about wealth is that the band's founder and initial leader quit after his bandmates vetoed his plan to keep what they needed to live on and give all the rest to charity!

Seriously, though, I wonder what Peter Green thought of the lavish lifestyle his ex-bandmates went on to live....well, some of them, anyway.

Eileen

[diamondsnake]

Originally Posted by BrokenWing

You know, the incredible irony of this whole discussion about wealth is that the band's founder and initial leader quit after his bandmates vetoed his plan to keep what they needed to live on and give all the rest to charity!

Seriously, though, I wonder what Peter Green thought of the lavish lifestyle his ex-bandmates went on to live....well, some of them, anyway.

Eileen

By the way, is Peter Green still alive? Another question- have any ex-band members passed away? You'd think so in a band with 14 or so past and current members.