Liar, Liar, Now You're Fired

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by The Tower

I'm gay and I oppose marriage in all its forms. Why on earth would anyone want the government/legal system that much control over their life? However, opposition does not equate limitation. If consensual people want to get married, regardless of orientation- go for it.

It's not a matter of wanting or letting the government and its legal system have control over our lives... it's a matter of us not having very important rights when we need them.

God forbid anyone here has a same-sex partner who's dying, because you're sure not going to have any legal recourse if your partner's family decides to block you from hospital visits, etc.

And if you have an adopted child, only ONE of you can be listed as that child's parent. If your partner dies, you have no legal recourse if your partner's family wishes to deny you full or even partial custody of your child.

Marriage is one of MANY rights we're fighting for, so that we have the same health insurance, financial and spousal benefits that straight couples have, without having to spend thousands of dollars in court fees in order to have our relationship recognized in some way that will appease insurance companies, etc. If you're even able to convince the court to grant you that.

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by The Tower

I won't rationalize or apologize for Rather's behavior. He's a prick and he did so much damage to the credibility of those trying to get rid of that scuzz Dubya. Lies are lies are lies.

He made a terrible mistake, but he is not the first, nor will he be the last, journalist to report an erroneous story.

The Bush Administration and the Conservative Party were just pissed because they didn't have Rather on their payroll, like they had Armstrong Williams.

[ontheEdgeof17]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

God forbid anyone here has a same-sex partner who's dying, because you're sure not going to have any legal recourse if your partner's family decides to block you from hospital visits, etc.

Now, this part is not true. The dying partner can legalize to have his/her companion at the bedside and the family has no say. I've had Death and Dying class. It can be done.

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by ontheEdgeof17

Now, this part is not true. The dying partner can legalize to have his/her companion at the bedside and the family has no say. I've had Death and Dying class. It can be done.

It can be done... if you're prepared for it. But not everyone is that prepared... even those with terminal illnesses.

Plus, it's a pity that ANYONE, gay or straight, should have to worry about the legalty of their mate visiting them in the hospital as they lay there dying. It's also a pity that they'd have to expend further emotional and physical energy on legal matters.
And If their relationship was already recognized by the government (local or federal), like STRAIGHT marriages are, they wouldn't have to.

[ontheEdgeof17]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

And If their relationship was already recognized by the government (local or federal), like STRAIGHT marriages are, they wouldn't have to.

Not true. Heterosexuals have more problems with this than homosexuals. With homosexuals that are in the hospitals, they (some) are already disassociated with their families, or their families live miles and miles away. Heterosexual families live closer and have bigger families....more offspring, etc. I cannot cont how many times I see people fighting in the hospital, next to the patient. We have had to ban them all. Since there was no legal document, we had the right to do so. People are not educated on living wills/MPOA/AD....that's the problem...gay or straight.

[irishgrl]

Ann Coulter is the female equivalent of Rush Limbaugh (who as far as I am concerned is a walking whoopie cushion) and in each of these cases, and similar ones, These commentators put this kind of thing out there to get a reaction. They may not even buy into everything they are spouting but they get a charge out of riling up the liberals. To me, that completely erases ANY credibility that they might have had, even if they did have facts to work with (which I have yet to see). The fact that Brown Eyes says she agrees with Ann (I think Brown Eyes is a girl) and the fact that she is posting inflammatory articles on this board, an obvious LIBERAL board, indicates to ME that this is more than an innocent posting of another view. I think, if you are conservative, and you wish to put forth a Conservative viewpoint, then please, for credibility's sake: choose commentators who are respectable: Colin Powell, Senator McCain and the like. Its just as easy to get your news and information from credible sources as it is from crackpots like Limbaugh, Hannity or Coulter.

Brown Eyes, if you're honest and you take another look at a few of the things you've said, even though you didnt MEAN to offend, your viewpoints sounded very judgemental and you come off sounding morally superior with all your talk of Christianity. MY view of Christ is a person who accepted the societal outcasts--and viewed the establishment with disfavor. I wonder how much of today's version of "Christianity" he would approve of?

[Serrart]

Originally Posted by Brwn_eyes0511

No...I am an honest Fleetwood Mac fan! lol

I just got started when reading some very liberal post here...so I felt the need to say something...why keep my mouth shut.

I'm not even American so probably I should keep my mouth shut, but I can't as usual . I' d find much more interesting to read your personal opinions than Ann Coulter's.

Romy

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by ontheEdgeof17

Not true. Heterosexuals have more problems with this than homosexuals. With homosexuals that are in the hospitals, they (some) are already disassociated with their families, or their families live miles and miles away. Heterosexual families live closer and have bigger families....more offspring, etc. I cannot cont how many times I see people fighting in the hospital, next to the patient. We have had to ban them all. Since there was no legal document, we had the right to do so. People are not educated on living wills/MPOA/AD....that's the problem...gay or straight.

My mother works in the funeral business... I know all about the in-fighting between families, live-in companions, ex-spouses, estranged children, etc., that can happen.

That's a very sad fact of life, and I'm not saying it NEVER happens to straight people.
If you're not a blood relative or the current legal spouse of the patient, you have no recourse if the family chooses to block you from visiting (without the patient having taken steps prior to their hospitalization to insure that you'll be by their side)... gay or straight.

BUT, if a wife's family tried to block her husband of 30 years from visiting her in the hospital, it wouldn't fly. He has just as much legal right to visit her, as her blood relatives do. (Though certainly the HOSPITAL has the right to block them all, if they're being disorderly and if their disruptions are preventing the physician and nurses to properly care for the patient.)

However, if a gay man's family tried to block his same-gender mate of 30 years from visiting him (again, with no prior legal action taken by the patient to insure the partner's presence), then the partner is out of luck, period... at least without some major court battle. And by that time, it's usually too late.

Also, without prior legal steps having been taken, the family is free to do what they want in regards to funeral arrangements, etc. The same-sex partner has no rights and no say there either.

I'm not saying it can't happen to ANYONE, gay or straight, but it's definitely a circumstance where there are rights that are inherent to a hetereosexual spouse, and not to a same-gender mate.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Originally Posted by dissention

And I disagree. The youth of this country is incredibly tolerant to gay men and women and, based on national polls, they support gay marriage by over 50%. That munber will only grow in the future and when they get the chance to vote on the issue, their voices will be heard. Being a Christian does not automatically make you anti-gay marriage.

Id be careful about what polls you buy into...

last polls that I looked at were the polls last novemeber that showed John Kerry winning the Presidential race by a landslide!

I know alot more younger people my age against gay marriage than for it!

[dissention]

Originally Posted by Brwn_eyes0511

I know alot more younger people my age against gay marriage than for it!

Yeah, and where do you currently live?

[greatdarkwing]

I have been away for a while...

Good to see more fellow Republicans are emerging

Hello Brwn_eyes0511, Im Alex, just wanted to welcome you to Liberal Country U.S.A aka the Chit Chat forum of The Ledge. The regime dictator here is Dissention...be careful...hes a tricky one

~Alex

Dissention

[dissention]

Originally Posted by greatdarkwing

I have been away for a while...

Good to see more fellow Republicans are emerging

Hello Brwn_eyes0511, Im Alex, just wanted to welcome you to Liberal Country U.S.A aka the Chit Chat forum of The Ledge. The regime dictator here is Dissention...be careful...hes a tricky one

~Alex

Dissention

Oh, Alex, this one is too conservative even for you.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Originally Posted by irishgrl

Ann Coulter is the female equivalent of Rush Limbaugh (who as far as I am concerned is a walking whoopie cushion) and in each of these cases, and similar ones, These commentators put this kind of thing out there to get a reaction. They may not even buy into everything they are spouting but they get a charge out of riling up the liberals. To me, that completely erases ANY credibility that they might have had, even if they did have facts to work with (which I have yet to see). The fact that Brown Eyes says she agrees with Ann (I think Brown Eyes is a girl) and the fact that she is posting inflammatory articles on this board, an obvious LIBERAL board, indicates to ME that this is more than an innocent posting of another view. I think, if you are conservative, and you wish to put forth a Conservative viewpoint, then please, for credibility's sake: choose commentators who are respectable: Colin Powell, Senator McCain and the like. Its just as easy to get your news and information from credible sources as it is from crackpots like Limbaugh, Hannity or Coulter.

Brown Eyes, if you're honest and you take another look at a few of the things you've said, even though you didnt MEAN to offend, your viewpoints sounded very judgemental and you come off sounding morally superior with all your talk of Christianity. MY view of Christ is a person who accepted the societal outcasts--and viewed the establishment with disfavor. I wonder how much of today's version of "Christianity" he would approve of?

I am a guy.

And I have already said that I was sorry for the way I may have worded things and that I didn't mean to offend anyone.

But I also REFUSE to deny and apologize for what I as an American believe it.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Originally Posted by greatdarkwing

I have been away for a while...

Good to see more fellow Republicans are emerging

Hello Brwn_eyes0511, Im Alex, just wanted to welcome you to Liberal Country U.S.A aka the Chit Chat forum of The Ledge. The regime dictator here is Dissention...be careful...hes a tricky one

~Alex

Dissention

Thank you so much. Glad to see I have a fellow conservative on board! lol.

Thank you for the welcome and dissention has already welcomed me...in his on way!

[ontheEdgeof17]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

My mother works in the funeral business... I know all about the in-fighting between families, live-in companions, ex-spouses, estranged children, etc., that can happen.

That's a very sad fact of life, and I'm not saying it NEVER happens to straight people.
If you're not a blood relative or the current legal spouse of the patient, you have no recourse if the family chooses to block you from visiting (without the patient having taken steps prior to their hospitalization to insure that you'll be by their side)... gay or straight.

BUT, if a wife's family tried to block her husband of 30 years from visiting her in the hospital, it wouldn't fly. He has just as much legal right to visit her, as her blood relatives do. (Though certainly the HOSPITAL has the right to block them all, if they're being disorderly and if their disruptions are preventing the physician and nurses to properly care for the patient.)

However, if a gay man's family tried to block his same-gender mate of 30 years from visiting him (again, with no prior legal action taken by the patient to insure the partner's presence), then the partner is out of luck, period... at least without some major court battle. And by that time, it's usually too late.

Also, without prior legal steps having been taken, the family is free to do what they want in regards to funeral arrangements, etc. The same-sex partner has no rights and no say there either.

I'm not saying it can't happen to ANYONE, gay or straight, but it's definitely a circumstance where there are rights that are inherent to a hetereosexual spouse, and not to a same-gender mate.

You are just saying the same thing over and over. Just have legal documentation. Period. There's no gay/straight issue there.

I'm beginning to get upset with all this "I'm gay so I can't do it" bull****. If you are not intelligent enough to cover your ass.....