Mick and Stevie RULE!!!

[teedee]

Originally posted by Les
But I think you're putting words into his mouth. Why does arguing for a double album, which would admittedly sell less, mean he's not admitting to
liking his lifestyle? Why does making money from his work mean he has to shut up about his ideas?

His ideas (along with the ideas of everyone else) have been a big part of making the band what it is. Lindsey personally plays a big part in what has made this band a critical darling, which has, in my mind, helped greatly in making their longevity possible. That's not a jab at anyone else in the band who have also earned praise through the years. It's just a comment on the basic fact that for many years Lindsey was most singled out by critics for praise. To me, that did nothing but help the band. So why the urge to stop him from making the same such arguments and arguing for similar artistic directions now?



You seem to be starting from a place that says that what Stevie wants is what is best for the band, while what Lindsey wants isn't best for the band. I don't think that's true. I think they just look at different factors. Lindsey's argument was for something that he thought was a larger "statement" because he thought that would make for a better album. And yes, it was, as he admitted several times, also self-serving in that it would allow him to get more of his material out. Stevie's and Mick's arguments that a double album wouldn't sell well is a valid point, especially if you're looking at sales as a determining factor of what indicates a good album.






"It was also a self-serving argument for them to make sure they made more money than they thought they'd make if they followed Lindsey's path. I'm not trying to say that sales is the only thing that is important to either of them or that sales are never important to Lindsey. But his making an argument for an album that aspires to be something different than just one that will sell most easily isn't wrong for the band. At least I don't think so. [/B]

THis is their lively-hood, i dont think its wrong for the band to go in the path thats going to make them the most money and i dont think thats selling out. to say its the band being self serving, well, its their band, its their product, not just lindseys. like i said before, if lindsey was working on a solo cd and he really felt he didnt care how little it sold , then thats ok because its his solo cd and his record company backs him up. but this was fm's cd.

[Les]

And Lindsey is part of FM. He argued for what he thought was important for an FM album. Just like the others did.

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
Again, that the results are good or aren't good, is just a matter of opinion.

Come on, man, even a lot of the diehard fans admit that was her low point. Even Cliffdweller admits it. She was uninspired. The drugs messed her up. She could barely write a song by herself.

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by teedee
your words!

Really? You're getting more perceptive.

[teedee]

Originally posted by Les
And Lindsey is part of FM. He argued for what he thought was important for an FM album. Just like the others did.

they are all allowed there input, im not say ing that he isnt. what i feel the difference is here is, he didnt care if the cd only sold 300,000 and it lost money, i mean if the other 3 disagree with that , i can certainly understand why. i mean if thats his logic, why do it in the first place as a fm cd, he should o f made it a solo, and if he was really not bothered by losing money then he wouldnt of had nothing to lose (lol except the money).
but in the end of the doc his own words bit him in the but, cause he said i have a family to raise and a house to pay for , so i guess the money does matter in some ways.

[Les]

they are all allowed there input, im not say ing that he isnt. what i feel the difference is here is, he didnt care if the cd only sold 300,000 and it lost money, i mean if the other 3 disagree with that , i can certainly understand why.

I can understand why too.

My general point is this -- I don't think having a minority opinion on a matter is tantamount to being automatically wrong, nor is it an indication that you shouldn't argue for your point of view. In the course of arguing you're either going to convince people to come over to your way of thinking or you're not.

They eventually reached a group decision they all seem to have been able to swallow and live with even if it was hard getting there. Hard isn't bad either.

[teedee]

Originally posted by Les
I can understand why too.

My general point is this -- I don't think having a minority opinion on a matter is tantamount to being automatically wrong, nor is it an indication that you shouldn't argue for your point of view. In the course of arguing you're either going to convince people to come over to your way of thinking or you're not.

They eventually reached a group decision they all seem to have been able to swallow and live with even if it was hard getting there. Hard isn't bad either.

i agree with your post here. but ppl here have to apply that theory with stevies opinions as well. when stevies disagrees its because she has her own opinions , but ppl here call her, greedy , stubborn, doesnt want to give in to her ex, etc,,, just because she disagrees with lindsey. and thats not true. i think she is very fair and level headed and willing to compromise in a group effort, but just cause linds didnt get his way this time, doesnt mean stevie is not willing to compromise too, just cause she felt differently about the situation.

[teedee]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
Come on, man, even a lot of the diehard fans admit that was her low point. Even Cliffdweller admits it. She was uninspired. The drugs messed her up. She could barely write a song by herself.

we all know about the drugs , its true, we are not denying that. but its still a matter of opinion. some say SA was her worst cd, it may have sold the least, i dont know, but i happen to really like that cd. im sure lots of people would disagree with me here, its their opinion, and i respect that, but im sure some would agree too, and even if no one did agree with me, its not going to change how i feel about it, i was never one to just say oh i hate that or i love , just because other people or critics or djs say something isnt good or its the best.

[sodascouts]

OK, this is a little tangential, but I was just watching the doc for about the 20th time and it sounds like Lindsey fully intends to release a solo album when he says he'll pull his masters. Do you guys think another solo album is still a possibility?

And here's something else that I've been thinking about. Let's say FM took his most accessible stuf and left him with the "marginalized." He could still release them solo, right? Or - is the problem that a solo CD of just "marginalized" material isn't going to sell well; therefore, he'd want to pull OUT the masters of the "commercial" stuff to put on his own album instead of FMs?

[dissention]

Originally posted by sodascouts
OK, this is a little tangential, but I was just watching the doc for about the 20th time and it sounds like Lindsey fully intends to release a solo album when he says he'll pull his masters. Do you guys think another solo album is still a possibility?

If he gets off his ass and actually takes matters into his own hands to get the material out there. But, as of now, he's too busy touring and raking in the dough. I'm sure that on the road he's of the mindset "If it ain't broke..." After this tour, he'll have probably made tens of millions, so he'll have plenty of resources to release an album on his own label; it's not like it's extravagantly expensive to do.

[Cammie]

Hi -Nancy, wouldn't that be just wonderful?
When Lindsey threatened to pull his tunes we
thought...Why don't you do that? We so want
a Lindsey Solo Work with All Our Hearts!!!Sky

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by Les
Huh? Nowhere in my discussion of any of this do I say Lindsey is 100% correct for anything. He had a point of view. He argued for it. She had hers, and she argued for it. However, I don't find the "supporting the family" argument any more convincing from her than I do anyone else. It was a rationalization from each of them when trying to deal with not quite getting what they really wanted.

I think the catch is in the implication that Lindsey arguing for a double-album, can't possibly be a selfish thing... but Stevie arguing to release a single album, can't possibly not be a selfish thing. She might claim to have a selfless reason, but it's not to be believed or trusted.

I think it was that implication that Jason was speaking of.

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
Come on, man, even a lot of the diehard fans admit that was her low point. Even Cliffdweller admits it. She was uninspired. The drugs messed her up. She could barely write a song by herself.

I'm not saying that every single thing she did during that time-period, or any, is absolutely golden... but I think people overlook a good amount of great songs, by writing off that entire era as "uninspired," or whatever.
She might not have been at her absolute best, but even then she was writing far better songs than most.

And it may not seem that way by some of the people who post around here, but there are a good many people who quite enjoy the songs she released during that time-frame... I've talked to quite a few of them.
My experience has been that the "naysayers" are just more adamant about voicing their opinion.

[GardenStateGirlie]

...why does this always have to turn into some melodramatic Lindsey VS Stevie thing? ALWAYS. Tired and old. Seriously. And before someone chimes in and says I don't need to read the thread and could ignore it, I know. However, It's now crossed into each section of the message board whether it be Rumours (where it's featured in multiple threads), Stevie, or Lindsey and it's always the same long winded diatribes.

[Les]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
I think the catch is in the implication that Lindsey arguing for a double-album, can't possibly be a selfish thing... but Stevie arguing to release a single album, can't possibly not be a selfish thing. She might claim to have a selfless reason, but it's not to be believed or trusted.

If you think I've been saying Lindsey was totally right and never self-serving, and the rest of them were totally wrong and only self-serving, well, I don't know what to tell you. I don't think I've said that at all. I don't believe any of them arguing for their point of view is wrong, no matter how passionate or weak that argument seems at different points.

And, yeah, lol, if I haven't mentioned it before, I kind of identify with Lindsey's role a bit more strongly than some of the others in the band. How 'bout that? It doesn't really matter to me if he would seem like a "better person" if he'd back down more quickly. If I generally identify with the principle of his argument, and disagree with the idea that he's wrong because he's in a minority, that's what I'll say. None of that means I think anyone else was wrong for arguing against him.

PS - I find the "supporting the family" argument silly from anyone in the band. Whether it was sweet and selfless and endlessly wonderful of Stevie to say it, it doesn't ring terribly true to me. It rings like a rationalization. Maybe it's a selfless rationalization? Sorry.