Break Down of Kiln House

[snoot]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

Actually, both were prolific writers. They had good songs that were left off the album because band decided to focus on Christine and Stevie.

Remember what I mentioned before: Lost in the Mac's ongoing identity shuffle, trying to cover the Buckingham deficit, while attempting to find a footing and platform all their own. Shame they were circumvented in that way, with the focus targeted more on maintaining the status quo.

Beyond Lindsey's long shadow, I don't think it helped coming aboard in the wake of Tango of all things. Wonder if they knew or fully appreciated what they were getting into, especially Rick? As for stepping up, I'm curious what your opinion is of Behind The Mask, and more importantly, their specific contributions. Sad to say, but by that point the Mac had largely lost me, so I may not be the best judge.

Their careers should definitely NOT be judged by their time in Fleetwood Mac.

True. Fortunately both are held in the highest regards in music circles, even if they were somewhat lost in the shuffle during their tenures with the band. Membership in FM is still a good citation to have on your "resume" though, even if it comes late (Dave Mason notwithstanding?).

[slipkid]

Originally Posted by snoot

Remember what I mentioned before: Lost in the Mac's ongoing identity shuffle, trying to cover the Buckingham deficit, while attempting to find a footing and platform all their own. Shame they were circumvented in that way, with the focus targeted more on maintaining the status quo.

Beyond Lindsey's long shadow, I don't think it helped coming aboard in the wake of Tango of all things. Wonder if they knew or fully appreciated what they were getting into, especially Rick? As for stepping up, I'm curious what your opinion is of Behind The Mask, and more importantly, their specific contributions. Sad to say, but by that point the Mac had largely lost me, so I may not be the best judge.

Their careers should definitely NOT be judged by their time in Fleetwood Mac.

True. Fortunately both are held in the highest regards in music circles, even if they were somewhat lost in the shuffle during their tenures with the band. Membership in FM is still a good citation to have on your "resume" though, even if it comes late (Dave Mason notwithstanding?).

Rick Vito from Philadelphia (Phillies WS champs!), saw FM with Peter Green in late '68 in their one time stop for two nights at the Electric Factory. Vito was worthy of the throne when he was hired after LB's leave. (he is around Kirwan's age BTW) Billy Burnette's addition was a little weird to me at the time. Unless Mick wanted to bring back the Green/Spencer or Kirwan vibe, yet Burnette didn't take??? You don't need two guitarists to replace Buckingham. Who knows what was going on, at this point the band was in pop oblivion.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by snoot

As for stepping up, I'm curious what your opinion is of Behind The Mask, and more importantly, their specific contributions. Sad to say, but by that point the Mac had largely lost me, so I may not be the best judge.

Well, my favorites from that album are In The Back Of My Mind, When The Sun Goes Down, and Do You Know, and I think Rick Vito's solo on Save Me may be the best post-Green solo on Mac album.

Originally Posted by slipkid

Vito was worthy of the throne when he was hired after LB's leave. (he is around Kirwan's age BTW) Billy Burnette's addition was a little weird to me at the time. Unless Mick wanted to bring back the Green/Spencer or Kirwan vibe, yet Burnette didn't take??? You don't need two guitarists to replace Buckingham. Who knows what was going on, at this point the band was in pop oblivion.

Billy was an obvious choice because he knew the others pretty well. Actually, Billy was going to be on the Tango tour even if Lindsey had stayed. He had played in Mick's band, Christine's band, and recorded an unreleased song with Stevie Nicks. Hell, he even backed Lindsey on Saturday Night Live! Also, from a distance, they do somewhat resemble each other. I doubt it was coincide that Billy played a white Les Paul Custom on that tour or that he wore the same type of jacket and black button-down that had become Lindsey's signature.

[snoot]

Originally Posted by slipkid

Rick Vito from Philadelphia (Phillies WS champs!), saw FM with Peter Green in late '68 in their one time stop for two nights at the Electric Factory. Vito was worthy of the throne when he was hired after LB's leave. (he is around Kirwan's age BTW) Billy Burnette's addition was a little weird to me at the time. Unless Mick wanted to bring back the Green/Spencer or Kirwan vibe, yet Burnette didn't take??? You don't need two guitarists to replace Buckingham. Who knows what was going on, at this point the band was in pop oblivion.

After all the time he spent in the company of folks like Mayall, Browne, Prine and Silverbullet (Seger), plus doing sessions work for damn near half the industry, it was hard for me to think of Vito as anything but a hired gun (ergo, temp) for FM. To my knowledge, he hadn't released a thing of his own prior to his time with Mac. Considering how busy he was contributing to the projects of others, this should come as no surprise. Burnette as we know descends from a well-known family of musicians, but those early solo efforts of his weren't exactly ground-breaking. Therefore I figured he and Rick, in a two-heads-are-better-than-one scheme, were choosing to collaborate to help shift the musical direction of the band but once again, with an approving nod from the existing players.

Unfortunately FM as a collective wasn't really looking to start fresh or anew, but instead continue with the same successful (aka "commercially safe") formula. Silly me, having hopes that this promising new tandem might create a marked shift in the direction of the past (appropriately modernized), by bringing the multi axe attack once again to the fore. After all, what did they stand to lose after Tango? But after giving Behind The Mask a run-through early on, I could see this wasn't the case, and never really fleshed it out further. Perhaps I didn't give it its full due, but that project - with all its hope - didn't exactly leap out at me (not fully its fault either, nothing FM was grabbing my attention by that point). Fact was, I was disappointed with what >> could have been <<.

Who knows what was going on, at this point the band was in pop oblivion.

Sad to say, that was (is) my general take too. Not solely from the BTM release mind you, but as a continuance of things going back as far as Tusk really. Spottier hit and miss productions, with an ever widening plunge toward pop goes the weasel. Tusk would have been a tighter production if it had been condensed to a single album imo, even with all those little gems found on it. Would have made for a more impactful and consistent follow-up to FM '75 and Rumours that way. As great a guitarist as Lindsey is, at times I think he could have broadened the FM sound more by bringing in a second gun for accents and additional counterpoint, especially as time went on. But if commercial sales are any gauge, that was far from needed -- plus he IS a magnificent axemeister as a solo hand, that's a given.

Could it be a case of Stevie overload at that point? Or just SOS POP FM in general?

Alas, I'm such a dinasour from the days of yore that I still long for that special instrumental offering(s) we used to get with nearly every FM project of the past. As noted earlier, not -ONE- since Buckingham took the helm AFAIK! Yikes.

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

Well, my favorites from that album are In The Back Of My Mind, When The Sun Goes Down, and Do You Know, and I think Rick Vito's solo on Save Me may be the best post-Green solo on Mac album.

Now I know it's hard to draw an exact line between banality and genius when we're speaking of pop music (Vinnie take note), but I might have to give this a second look. I'll tab your notes when I do.

Billy was an obvious choice because he knew the others pretty well.

Maybe because he was also more malleable, you know, more of a no make waves team player?

What we needed was a Forgetaboutit Stevie! Pipe down Christy! STFU Mick! in your face change of direction at that point. Not more of this "Will you have some crumpets with your tea, Stevie? Oh, and how 'bout you Mick? Christy, my love?" Pfffft. Ha ha ha yeah, and pink elephants will fly.

TAKE BACK THE MAC! That's what we fossils from the past were shouting. [blush]

Actually, Billy was going to be on the Tango tour even if Lindsey had stayed.

Where did you hear that? Lindsey to spearhead a dual axe attack? Proof or FAIL.

[SteveMacD]

Could it be a case of Stevie overload at that point? Or just SOS POP FM in general?

Alas, I'm such a dinasour from the days of yore that I still long for that special instrumental offering(s) we used to get with nearly every FM project of the past. As noted earlier, not -ONE- since Buckingham took the helm AFAIK! Yikes.

Which is odd, as Buckingham Nicks has two instrumentals....

Billy was an obvious choice because he knew the others pretty well.

Maybe because he was also more malleable, you know, more of a no make waves team player?

Maybe a little. But, he was already showing that he was willing to be a team player and that he had the talent to be on the team. But he was not as malleable as Rick Vito. Both, and Bekka for that matter, were a little too passive about fighting for their vision. But then they were going into a situation with very difficult emotions amongst the band. Bob Welch got lucky in that he got three albums before any real expectations were put on his shoulders.

Actually, Billy was going to be on the Tango tour even if Lindsey had stayed.

Where did you hear that? Lindsey to spearhead a dual axe attack? Proof or FAIL.

About ten years ago, a very handsome man, now prone to indie rock, asked Billy out-right about it...

Okay, a few more questions (though I bet Steve D. by now has already asked a couple of these). I vaguely recall reading somewhere that even if Lindsey hadn't left in 1987, you were probably going to be asked to at least be a backing guitarist/vocalist on the 1987 tour. Is that true? (Steve MacDougall, Columbus, Ohio, USA)

Yes, that is what Mick talked about.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

About ten years ago, a very handsome man, now prone to indie rock, asked Billy out-right about it...

Yes, I remember an interview where Christine said that Lindsey had already been planning to have more guitarists on the road with them (a scaled down vision of the "guitar army" he eventually used for his solo tour), so that they could get a fuller sound on stage.

Michele

[snoot]

Originally Posted by michelej1

Yes, I remember an interview where Christine said that Lindsey had already been planning to have more guitarists on the road with them (a scaled down vision of the "guitar army" he eventually used for his solo tour), so that they could get a fuller sound on stage.

pwnd x3!

Hurts so good to know you know?

Of course, it would only have mattered if Lucky Lindsey let the second fiddle have a bit of the spotlight, enough free reign to count in the affair. If so, that would have been a BLAST to see!

Leaving us to ask but again, WHY OH WHY NOT?

[snoot]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

Bob Welch got lucky in that he got three albums before any real expectations were put on his shoulders.

All the more reason I feel sorry for Danny in the greater FM equation. First to lose Peter like they (he) did when they were working so well together, then to take the reins with Jeremy, only to see him bail in the middle of a subsequent tour, then being thrust front and center, only to have Green return with his derailing "terms." With that whirlwind already dogging him, Kirwan was expected to carry Fleetwood Mac on his shoulders -- all at age 20. It's a marvel he did it as well as he did all things considered, to include losing the battle to his own growing substance abuses and insecurities, and in some ways you can hardly fault him for losing his own mind as time went on.

About ten years ago, a very handsome man, now prone to indie rock, asked Billy out-right about it...
"I vaguely recall reading somewhere that even if Lindsey hadn't left in 1987, you were probably going to be asked to at least be a backing guitarist/vocalist on the 1987 tour. Is that true?" (Handsome Steve MacDougall, Columbus, Ohio, USA)

CHECK

Yes, that is what Mick talked about.

MATE

Nothing worse than getting it directly from the source(s) -- pwnd x2!

SO there it is! DISAPPOINTED BUT AGAIN! LINDSEY, HOW COULD YOUUUU!! ARGGH