Mick's book- the "Time" Band

[FuzzyPlum]

Originally Posted by cascade13

(I'm going back a little bit in the thread, I know, but hadn't read it until now.)

A few reasons, I'm guessing. If Billy had been comfortable as a lead guitarist, I assume they would have hired him in that capacity in the first place, not both him and Rick...so they still needed a separate lead guitarist alongside him. As to why they kept Dave instead of trying to coax Rick back, etc. ... Mick and Dave were tight, and Mick sold him on being a member of the band, so he probably didn't want to back away from his decision. And it probably didn't hurt Dave's cause that he was the most widely known singer/songwriter in the band, aside from Christine.

All that said, obviously it wasn't the *right* choice. I never saw the chemistry and camaraderie with Billy and Dave that I saw with Billy and Rick. (Maybe it's because they were both the "new guys" at the same time...) Dave and Billy seemed to co-exist more than collaborate, on stage and in studio. I'm not surprised Mick hit "detonate" on that lineup as soon as it was clear Time was going nowhere...

I wonder how things would have panned out had Rick been in the Time band rather than Dave. Would the 'Rumours' band still gotten back together or would they have gone on harmoniously with a Mick, John, Billy, Rick, Bekka line-up? They would have never reached the heights of the past but I wonder whether they'd have been successful enough and happy enough to have continued for a while as a band. Rick Billy and Bekka would have made a really interesting creative grouping- ultimately a complete departure in sound and style from anything FM had done previously but I think they could have had some real success.

[cascade13]

Originally Posted by FuzzyPlum

I think the majority of the songs on Time are decent songs. The overall sound is a bit 'light' though. Everyone goes on about how Stevie needs Lindsey's production touch- I think the same can equally be said of Christine's material. Her songs on Time are good and could have possibly appeared on any of the previous albums. Perhaps if she'd had Lindsey's involvement they would have been elevated to another level. The same can be said of her contributions to Behind The Mask and her solo albums- all decent songs that are just a bit short of what they could have been.

Absolutely. I'm not a musician myself, but I can certainly hear a difference in Christine's songs as they went from producer to producer between '87 and '97. For example, Little Lies (Lindsey/Richard) to Save Me (Greg Ladanyi) to Love Shines (Patrick Leonard) to I Do (Christine/Richard) and Temporary One (Lindsey/Elliot Scheiner...and a live recording). Anyone care to elaborate on what these guys did differently musically? All I can tell you is some sound clearer than others (ahem...BTM...).

[cascade13]

Originally Posted by FuzzyPlum

I wonder how things would have panned out had Rick been in the Time band rather than Dave. Would the 'Rumours' band still gotten back together or would they have gone on harmoniously with a Mick, John, Billy, Rick, Bekka line-up? They would have never reached the heights of the past but I wonder whether they'd have been successful enough and happy enough to have continued for a while as a band. Rick Billy and Bekka would have made a really interesting creative grouping- ultimately a complete departure in sound and style from anything FM had done previously but I think they could have had some real success.

That's a good question. If Mick had stayed true to form and called the band Fleetwood Mac (as he had every right to do), I think it would have been a very similar result in the end. Maybe an extra tour and a better album than Time, but I think the Rumours lineup reuniting was only a matter of time/money.

If I daydream and redo Time to focus on a Billy, Rick, and Bekka lineup (incorporating some solo songs from Billy/Rick and a few Christine contributions for posterity), maybe something like this:

Talking to My Heart
Desiree
Winds of Change
I Do
Walk Another Mile
Believe What You Say
Nothing Without You
Sooner or Later
Intuition
I Got It in for You
Dreaming the Dream
All Over Again

[PenguinHead]

Originally Posted by wetcamelfood

One thing I just thought of regarding Mick's comments on this time in the new book is that he basically says due to the fighting with Mason/Bekka etc. he couldn't keep this going. So how come fighting was tolerated for Rumours etc. but not this?

John

It was a very different time, different place, different people.

In 1976 the band was experiencing a huge wave of creative and commercial success. It's well documented that the chemistry they had was worth preserving despite the infighting. They had a future ahead of them.

By the time the of the Time, Fleetwood Mac's stature was in flux. Now they were old school. Two of the prominent members were gone, and the third one (Christine) was barely holding on. The market/music scene, as well as their image had changed drastically.

They're performing in amusement parks, with two other somewhat has-been bands. They hardly had the chemistry or constitution to withstand the tensions between them. It's not hard to understand why this configuration had a short shelve life. It hindsight, Christine's tentative presence was precursor

In circumspect, it was Mick's attempt to persevere; to keep Fleetwood Mac alive. It was another link in the chain; a place holder of sorts, which allowed the next chapter of the the band to unfold: The Dance.

[PenguinHead]

Originally Posted by cascade13

That's a good question. If Mick had stayed true to form and called the band Fleetwood Mac (as he had every right to do), I think it would have been a very similar result in the end. Maybe an extra tour and a better album than Time, but I think the Rumours lineup reuniting was only a matter of time/money.

If I daydream and redo Time to focus on a Billy, Rick, and Bekka lineup (incorporating some solo songs from Billy/Rick and a few Christine contributions for posterity), maybe something like this:

Talking to My Heart
Desiree
Winds of Change
I Do
Walk Another Mile
Believe What You Say
Nothing Without You
Sooner or Later
Intuition
I Got It in for You
Dreaming the Dream
All Over Again

A great re-imagined album. The other songs would have the benefit of Rick's guitar.

I'm not familiar with Believe What You Say. Is that a Rick song?

[secret love]

This is a video I shared on my Facebook page. I think it takes on a special meaning during the festive season.

If I live to see a world free of war, terror, hatred, selfishness and greed; then I will know that I can die happy.

[cascade13]

Originally Posted by PenguinHead

A great re-imagined album. The other songs would have the benefit of Rick's guitar.

I'm not familiar with Believe What You Say. Is that a Rick song?

Thanks! Believe What You Say is a Billy song from Are You With Me Baby. I haven't heard it or read the liner notes in a while, but I think it has Bekka on backing vocals. And All Music shows it as having been written by his dad and uncle, so you can probably guess the basic style (short, up-tempo rock-and-roll song).

The other early-90s scenario in my head is a Billy-less Behind the Mask, had they decided to keep the Rumours-era model of three singers/one guitarist (in this case, Rick given his lead guitarist role). Rick clearly worked well with Stevie, and I'd have been curious to hear what he and Christine would have come up with, given their grounding in the blues. I'll have to give that playlist some thought...

[SteveMacD]

Billy quit in February, 1993. My new "What If" is what if Christine told Mick to wait nine months before adding any new blood. By then, Lindsey's solo tour would have been over. Based on some of the things he's said, Lindsey seemed pretty dejected about the experience. In truth, he worked his ass off trying to sell his masterpiece to no avail, and probably lost a lot of money on the tour. Worst still was that he wasn't able to really establish himself as a viable entity outside of Fleetwood Mac. The liberating feeling of being free from the band seemed to give way to the reality of being responsible for every detail of the live show.

I think if they had played their cards right, they could have gotten Lindsey back in late 1993. Christine would have had to be the on to initiate contact with him and they would have had to have a clearing of the air moment, but I think that could have happened, and they could have made an album as a quartet. And, Lindsey would have had enough material to front the live shows by himself .

[David]

Originally Posted by Mr Scarrott

They never played in the UK during this period, so I never saw them live, but I wonder if I would have been able to summon up the emotional belief to buy into their performance.

Well put. That's exactly the way I'd put it, if I were as articulate as you are, Mike! I saw two shows at Clear Lake in California, one in 1994 and one in 1995. They were the most un-Brechtian Fleetwood Mac concerts I've ever seen. There wasn't even a glimmer of sparkle or theater in the performances. It was like watching a bunch of good musicians rehearse on a Saturday afternoon while their mates were grilling burgers out back. No glamour at all, no elation at hearing the classics being performed, and the tiny sense of sexual joy came from Bekka, but even that sexuality had no higher emotional feel—you watched Bekka and thought she was hot, but you didn't fall in love with her. Since 1967, people had been falling in love with one or more members of Fleetwood Mac at their concerts. But that identification was totally absent.

[Nicks Fan]

I always wondered what the deal was with Time? I though Christine had said that she was still willing to record new music but not tour. Then they did an album without her and it got rejected and then Chris returned to record Time with the new lineup. Why didn't she want to contribute to the initial recording sessions?

[SteveMacD]

She was always, at least publicly, involved with the project. There were pictures of her playing with Bekka and Dave prior to Billy's return, and there's the one full band picture. In every interview they gave, she was still mentioned as being the Brian Wilson of Fleetwood Mac. The only songs that she's definitely not on are the ones where Steve Thoma is listed as keyboards, as opposed to additional keyboards.

Maybe she started the project with the band but decided to pull out midway through, maybe around the same time Richard Dashut left the project, but was forced back into it for contractual reasons. I have no idea because there's photographic evidence she was there from the start, was always mentioned in interviews, and I've never seen anything to suggest that she wasn't involved.

[Nicks Fan]

I thought though there was a CD "Another Link In The Chain" that got rejected by WB because none of the Rumors era Singers was on it and somehow she was convinced to return to the band and record with this lineup even though she did not tour.

[secret love]

I love Christine McVie and her music. She is a class act...the same cannot be said for her soul sister Stevie Nicks, I'm afraid. While Stevie is an equally talented singer-songwriter, she is not an accomplished musician - she can compose glorious melodies but cannot sustain a full concert with herself on piano and voice, like Christine can and did in 1984 for her second solo album.

Anyway, the album Time is horrendously under-rated simply because it does not feature Buckingham Nicks.

It was funny to read Christine's comments that Say You Will sounded to her like a Buckingham Nicks album with a great Fleetwood Mac rhythm section! Maybe she felt like she had missed out? She sounds great on Bleed to Love Her and Steal Your Heart Away, which were recorded I 1995, sans Stevie Nicks, I believe.

My favourite Fleetwood Mac album is Say You Will, despite the commentary here that says it is sub par.

Back to Time, I absolutely adore Winds of Change and These Strange Times is a welcome departure from the safe ground Fleetwood Mac had been treading musically since 1982's Mirage album.

[PenguinHead]

Originally Posted by secret love

Anyway, the album Time is horrendously under-rated simply because it does not feature Buckingham Nicks.

It was funny to read Christine's comments that Say You Will sounded to her like a Buckingham Nicks album with a great Fleetwood Mac rhythm section! Maybe she felt like she had missed out?

My favourite Fleetwood Mac album is Say You Will, despite the commentary here that says it is sub par.

I agree that Time is a nice listen, It features a variety of songs from several singers/songwriters - historically following the format they've always had. It's just an unexpected and somewhat obscure anomaly in their history.

Christine was spot on with her assessment of Say You Will being like a Buckingham Nicks album. While stating the obvious, I don't think she said it with any regret that she wasn't involved with it -- it wouldn't sound Buckingham Nicks-like if she was still in the band.

[cbBen]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

Billy quit in February, 1993. My new "What If" is what if Christine told Mick to wait nine months before adding any new blood. By then, Lindsey's solo tour would have been over. Based on some of the things he's said, Lindsey seemed pretty dejected about the experience. In truth, he worked his ass off trying to sell his masterpiece to no avail, and probably lost a lot of money on the tour. Worst still was that he wasn't able to really establish himself as a viable entity outside of Fleetwood Mac. The liberating feeling of being free from the band seemed to give way to the reality of being responsible for every detail of the live show.

I think if they had played their cards right, they could have gotten Lindsey back in late 1993. Christine would have had to be the on to initiate contact with him and they would have had to have a clearing of the air moment, but I think that could have happened, and they could have made an album as a quartet. And, Lindsey would have had enough material to front the live shows by himself .

I think he would have first needed to go through the experience of having his 1995 album rejected. Remember he went straight from the tour to the recording of his next album.

P.S. Do Mick and John play the bass and drums on "Big Love" from Tango? And does Christine play on it?