Are you Team Lindsey or Team Fleetwood Mac? Who are u routing for in the lawsuit?

[saniette]

Originally Posted by Sugar Mouse

Sorry but Lindsey's solo albums have not been critically acclaimed. AllMusic is the gold standard website for album reviews and his solo albums have all gotten 3 1/2 or 4 stars out of 5. Thus, they have all been reviewed as solid but not great albums. Great albums on AllMusic receive 4 1/2 or 5 stars and none of his solo albums have done that. Stevie Nicks, on the other hand, has had two solo albums that received 4 1/2 stars from AllMusic. Lindsey has obviously been fantastic in his work with Fleetwood Mac with three 5 star albums.

You really aren't going to let this go are you? For all your complaints about this board, you come in here and make a blatantly provocative statement about Lindsey's talent, and you think that's okay.

AllMusic is hardly the "gold standard" for album reviews. It's still just one reviewer's opinion of each album. I read a lot of music review websites, and plenty of people take issue with AllMusic ratings. I disagree with their ratings of individual albums quite a bit myself.

Metacritic might be more useful, as it aggregates all reviews for an album. Granted, only Lindsey's and Stevie's recent work is included, but Lindsey's average rating is 75, and Stevie's is below 70. Stevie has one great album, her first one, and then it drops off for her. Lindsey's talent hasn't dropped off as sharply, and his recent albums are far better than hers.

For what's it worth, there is no way 24 Karat Gold is a 4 1/2 star album.

[Sugar Mouse]

Originally Posted by saniette

You really aren't going to let this go are you? For all your complaints about this board, you come in here and make a blatantly provocative statement about Lindsey's talent, and you think that's okay.

AllMusic is hardly the "gold standard" for album reviews. It's still just one reviewer's opinion of each album. I read a lot of music review websites, and plenty of people take issue with AllMusic ratings. I disagree with their ratings of individual albums quite a bit myself.

Metacritic might be more useful, as it aggregates all reviews for an album. Granted, only Lindsey's and Stevie's recent work is included, but Lindsey's average rating is 75, and Stevie's is below 70. Stevie has one great album, her first one, and then it drops off for her. Lindsey's talent hasn't dropped off as sharply, and his recent albums are far better than hers.

For what's it worth, there is no way 24 Karat Gold is a 4 1/2 star album.

I never said anything about Lindsey's talent. He is extraordinarily talented as a producer, arranger, and guitarist. I was responding to folks on this forum who are posting that Lindsey was the only talent in the band and that's ridiculous. The members needed each others talents. Stevie and Christine are great songwriters. Lindsey is a great producer/arranger. And together they made great music. As far as Lindsey's solo career, it's been a very mixed bag of well-produced, well-performed albums with very hit and miss songwriting. Stevie's solo albums have had great songs with hit and miss production. They're obviously much better together than apart.

[David]

Originally Posted by Sugar Mouse

As far as Lindsey's solo career, it's been a very mixed bag of well-produced, well-performed albums with very hit and miss songwriting.

Mind my asking for examples of bad songwriting on his solo albums? I know he has certainly written some clunkers, but I want to get a better grasp on your taste.

Originally Posted by Sugar Mouse

Stevie's solo albums have had great songs with hit and miss production.

What in your opinion are some of Stevie's great songs?

Originally Posted by Sugar Mouse

They're obviously much better together than apart.

That's kinda the reason for all the drama on the board lately.

[secondhandchain]

Originally Posted by David

Mind my asking for examples of bad songwriting on his solo albums? I know he has certainly written some clunkers, but I want to get a better grasp on your taste.

What in your opinion are some of Stevie's great songs?

That's kinda the reason for all the drama on the board lately.

Yup. Mick (sugar M) listen, most of us used to be big Stevie fans. I love her early solo work, and adore her work on the first 3 mac albums. I hung in there and was forgiving of the subsequent solo albums. but I started cringing when i heard her vocals on Rock a little. After Mirage she was hit and miss. I did however love a lot of In your Dreams. Lindsey for me has had a much more consistent quality of material in his solo career, and has only gotten better IMO. The real reason I can't stand Stevie? I started noticing a few years ago in her interviews that she would say stuff that really rubbed me the wrong way. Then she refused to record with FM. Then she would be all over the place with why she didn't like to record. She lies... a lot. So when she got LB fired? DEAD.TO.ME.

[Sugar Mouse]

Originally Posted by secondhandchain

Yup. Mick (sugar M) listen, most of us used to be big Stevie fans. I love her early solo work, and adore her work on the first 3 mac albums. I hung in there and was forgiving of the subsequent solo albums. but I started cringing when i heard her vocals on Rock a little. After Mirage she was hit and miss. I did however love a lot of In your Dreams. Lindsey for me has had a much more consistent quality of material in his solo career, and has only gotten better IMO. The real reason I can't stand Stevie? I started noticing a few years ago in her interviews that she would say stuff that really rubbed me the wrong way. Then she refused to record with FM. Then she would be all over the place with why she didn't like to record. She lies... a lot. So when she got LB fired? DEAD.TO.ME.

Well, you've presented one side of the story. The other story, of course, is that Stevie and Mick had enough of Lindsey's behavior (as documented in the book "Storms") and wanted the band to be a peaceful, happy work environment.

[saniette]

Originally Posted by Sugar Mouse

Well, you've presented one side of the story. The other story, of course, is that Stevie and Mick had enough of Lindsey's behavior (as documented in the book "Storms") and wanted the band to be a peaceful, happy work environment.

But that's just your theory. There's no evidence to support that the band wasn't a happy environment for the most part. Christine was quite vocal about enjoying the tour with Lindsey, and Mick had always seemed to get along with him fine. The issue is clearly between Lindsey and Stevie, but to act like Lindsey hasn't changed in the past 40 years is ridiculous. You want to lock him in to past behavior, but you don't actually know what he's like now. People do change, amd if anything I think Lindsey's been walking on eggshells around Stevie since SYW.

[Sugar Mouse]

Originally Posted by David

Mind my asking for examples of bad songwriting on his solo albums? I know he has certainly written some clunkers, but I want to get a better grasp on your taste.

What in your opinion are some of Stevie's great songs?

That's kinda the reason for all the drama on the board lately.

My opinion is that Stevie is a far better songwriter than Lindsey while Lindsey is, without question, a far better arranger/producer. Lindsey has never written a song of the quality of "Sisters of The Moon", "Dreams", "Beautiful Child", "Storms", "Sara", "Gypsy", "Rhiannon", "Silver Springs" ... and the list goes on and on. Of course, that's my opinion and others are free to disagree. I've listened repeatedly to Lindsey's solo albums and his recent Anthology and I find most of his songs without sufficient melodic flow and dynamic variance. Some of them are exercises in guitar prowess, but that doesn't make them good songs.

[saniette]

Originally Posted by Sugar Mouse

My opinion is that Stevie is a far better songwriter than Lindsey while Lindsey is, without question, a far better arranger/producer. Lindsey has never written a song of the quality of "Sisters of The Moon", "Dreams", "Beautiful Child", "Storms", "Sara", "Gypsy", "Rhiannon", "Silver Springs" ... and the list goes on and on. Of course, that's my opinion and others are free to disagree. I've listened repeatedly to Lindsey's solo albums and his recent Anthology and I find most of his songs without sufficient melodic flow and dynamic variance. Some of them are exercises in guitar prowess, but that doesn't make them good songs.

You just prefer Stevie's style of songwriting, and that's fine. But she's not "far better". And her songs tend to be pretty dull musically, whatever "dynamic variance" there is comes from Lindsey's arrangements.

"Go Your Own Way" is just as good as the songs you listed, as well as I'm So Afraid, Never Going Back Again, Walk a Thin Line, IKINW, Trouble, Go Insane, and plenty more. I do think Stevie's songs tend to have more of an emotional resonance than his, but musically they're just as good. What he can do, she can't do, and vice versa. She can't write those type of songs at all, and all the FM songs you listed depend on Lindsey's arrangements to make them hits. And Stevie liked the "Can't Go Back" music enough to sing "Wild Heart" over it, and that song would have been better as a collaboration than either song they came up with separately.

Notice how you didn't list any of Stevie's solo songs? I guess her solo career isn't that great after all.

I just think you're selling Lindsey's songwriting abilities short. Neil Finn apparently likes his songs enough to sing them every night, and I'm sure he had a say in which songs he would sing.

[Sugar Mouse]

Originally Posted by saniette

You just prefer Stevie's style of songwriting, and that's fine. But she's not "far better". And her songs tend to be pretty dull musically, whatever "dynamic variance" there is comes from Lindsey's arrangements.

"Go Your Own Way" is just as good as the songs you listed, as well as I'm So Afraid, Never Going Back Again, Walk a Thin Line, IKINW, Trouble, Go Insane, and plenty more. I do think Stevie's songs tend to have more of an emotional resonance than his, but musically they're just as good. What he can do, she can't do, and vice versa. She can't write those type of songs at all, and all the FM songs you listed depend on Lindsey's arrangements to make them hits. And Stevie liked the "Can't Go Back" music enough to sing "Wild Heart" over it, and that song would have been better as a collaboration than either song they came up with separately.

Notice how you didn't list any of Stevie's solo songs? I guess her solo career isn't that great after all.

I just think you're selling Lindsey's songwriting abilities short. Neil Finn apparently likes his songs enough to sing them every night, and I'm sure he had a say in which songs he would sing.

I adore many of Stevie's solo songs ... "Has Anyone Ever Written ...", "Beauty and The Beast", "Mabel Normand", "Hard Advice", "Belle Fleur", etc. One thing we can agree on is that Stevie and Lindsey are musically better together than apart. You mentioned Neil and yes, I think he's one of the best songwriters of all-time but that's obviously my opinion. Unlike Lindsey and Stevie, Neil has written almost every song on the 18 albums he's released since Split Enz ended about 35 years ago. And Neil wrote most of the Split Enz songs during the last few albums and wrote most of their hits. It's kind of astounding how many great songs he's written. Lindsey, Stevie, and Christine shared the songwriting in Fleetwood Mac while Neil has been the main songwriter in his 18 post-Enz albums outside of the projects he's done with his brother Tim where they wrote the songs together. As far as Neil singing the Mac songs, I know his son Liam and his daughter-in-law are HUGE Fleetwood Mac fans and Neil has become a big fan of the band's songs. He recently said that he only knew the Mac hits until recently but that he's been very impressed with the quality of the songwriting now that he's been learning the back catalogue.

[secondhandchain]

Originally Posted by Sugar Mouse

I adore many of Stevie's solo songs ... "Has Anyone Ever Written ...", "Beauty and The Beast", "Mabel Normand", "Hard Advice", "Belle Fleur", etc. One thing we can agree on is that Stevie and Lindsey are musically better together than apart. You mentioned Neil and yes, I think he's one of the best songwriters of all-time but that's obviously my opinion. Unlike Lindsey and Stevie, Neil has written almost every song on the 18 albums he's released since Split Enz ended about 35 years ago. And Neil wrote most of the Split Enz songs during the last few albums and wrote most of their hits. It's kind of astounding how many great songs he's written. Lindsey, Stevie, and Christine shared the songwriting in Fleetwood Mac while Neil has been the main songwriter in his 18 post-Enz albums outside of the projects he's done with his brother Tim where they wrote the songs together. As far as Neil singing the Mac songs, I know his son Liam and his daughter-in-law are HUGE Fleetwood Mac fans and Neil has become a big fan of the band's songs. He recently said that he only knew the Mac hits until recently but that he's been very impressed with the quality of the songwriting now that he's been learning the back catalogue.

I have nothing against Neil or Mike, they are very talented. But come on, they are not FM. It's just not right. Is having some peace and quiet worth ruining a legacy? This is probably close to their last tour. She had to go and ruin it? We are pissed for a very good reason.

[DownOnRodeo]

Originally Posted by Sugar Mouse

One thing we can agree on is that Stevie and Lindsey are musically better together than apart.

As much as it would be nice if everyone agreed on something, I could not be in greater disagreement about that statement.

I see Stevie and Lindsey's songwriting prowess over the years as having a starkly inverse relationship: Stevie's considerable talent in writing songs waned from fantastic highs, even as Lindsey's rose from mediocre lows.

As much as Stevie may or may not need Lindsey musically in one form or other, his songwriting (production etc. aside) has been increasingly astronomical since the 90s and just seems to get better and better--all with zero input from Stevie (save the odd vocal cameo).

(Runs off to listen to Rock Away Blind for the hundredth time this week.)

[SteveMacD]

One would think that a Neil Finn fan of all people would appreciate an artist who had commercial success deciding to put art above commercialism.

[Sugar Mouse]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

One would think that a Neil Finn fan of all people would appreciate an artist who had commercial success deciding to put art above commercialism.

Are you referring to me? I appreciate Lindsey putting art above commercialism. That concept is wonderful. I really appreciate Lindsey's attention to detail in terms of production/arrangements. It his songwriting that is the issue for me. Again, the Rumours-era Fleetwood Mac were so special because they needed each other and were far better together than apart.

[David]

Originally Posted by Sugar Mouse

My opinion is that Stevie is a far better songwriter than Lindsey while Lindsey is, without question, a far better arranger/producer. Lindsey has never written a song of the quality of "Sisters of The Moon", "Dreams", "Beautiful Child", "Storms", "Sara", "Gypsy", "Rhiannon", "Silver Springs" ... and the list goes on and on. Of course, that's my opinion and others are free to disagree. I've listened repeatedly to Lindsey's solo albums and his recent Anthology and I find most of his songs without sufficient melodic flow and dynamic variance. Some of them are exercises in guitar prowess, but that doesn't make them good songs.

I'm not contrasting the songwriting merits of Lindsey and Stevie (although that would be fun). I'm saying that Lindsey is historically the critical darling in Fleetwood Mac, not Stevie. That was my point in response to your mention of Metacritic and AllMusic. I recommended that you read the vast body of criticism on their respective solo work to support my conclusion.

[Sugar Mouse]

Originally Posted by David

I'm not contrasting the songwriting merits of Lindsey and Stevie (although that would be fun). I'm saying that Lindsey is historically the critical darling in Fleetwood Mac, not Stevie. That was my point in response to your mention of Metacritic and AllMusic. I recommended that you read the vast body of criticism on their respective solo work to support my conclusion.

I completely agree that Lindsey is the critical darling in Fleetwood Mac albums with Christine second. However, I was talking about solo albums and Lindsey hasn't been a critical darling in his solo career.