Hard Advice / That Made Me Stronger

[StreetAngel86]

are these songs about Lindsey?
I mean they were written circa Twisted ...

I would have said the rehab dude ala For What It's Worth... but he's not a singer is he?

and every song that's not about Lindsey is about Joe W right?
when was the last time Stevie had anything proper to do with him?

seriously, who are these songs about?

[Aussie W/Heart]

Tom P for sure

[UndoingTheLaces]

Tom is the guy who's given her the "hard advice" but I'm not sure who the man she's trying to get over is. Has there ever been a life sized paper doll of Lindsay? LOL.

[welcomechris]

Originally Posted by StreetAngel86

are these songs about Lindsey?
I mean they were written circa Twisted ...

I would have said the rehab dude ala For What It's Worth... but he's not a singer is he?

and every song that's not about Lindsey is about Joe W right?
when was the last time Stevie had anything proper to do with him?

seriously, who are these songs about?

Hi, with some old articles and new ones I've gotten you the most educated answer

Both of those songs were written at a dinner Stevie had with the heartbreakers in 1994. Stevie said to tom that "She was having trouble writing music lately because she was going through relationship troubles and was struggling to get over her Klonopin addiction. She wanted tom to write her a song and tom said "You have to get over this, I won't write you a song because you can write songs by yourself. There is nothing wrong with you, so go write a real song tonight." The part in Hard Advice

I believe the part when she sings

Another famous friend told me, "love does end, make a clean break" part is about Lindsey but the rest of the song is based off of that conversation.

[StreetAngel86]

Originally Posted by Aussie W/Heart

Tom P for sure

this is gross. but that's what i thought initially too.
except why would she go TO him ...

he's the only one i could think of who would legit be worthy of a "doll" lol

[Dex]

Someone posted a life-sized paper doll of Joe Walsh found in a record store a few weeks ago, in another thread.

Frankly the entire concept of large paper cutouts of people is one I find a little creepy, which is why its a lyric I really wish she'd changed. Who buys that crap? Who thinks it's a good idea to manufacture it? Well, apparently Stevie does, because she had to be told explicitly not to buy it at the end of the song. Something I rather wish I didn't know about her.

[vivfox]

Originally Posted by Dex

Someone posted a life-sized paper doll of Joe Walsh found in a record store a few weeks ago, in another thread.

Frankly the entire concept of large paper cutouts of people is one I find a little creepy, which is why its a lyric I really wish she'd changed. Who buys that crap? Who thinks it's a good idea to manufacture it? Well, apparently Stevie does, because she had to be told explicitly not to buy it at the end of the song. Something I rather wish I didn't know about her.

LOL IMHO, that is not the doll she is referring to in the song when she sings, "don't buy that doll." There was a space in time when Stevie would carry with her one of those life like baby dolls. She said in an interview she wanted to have a baby around 1991. I read many Ledgie's remarks about being creeped out by those dolls. I believe it was Tom telling her not to buy those dolls anymore. They were probably very expensive also.

If it was the lifelike paper doll of the rock star from the record store, I'm sure the manager would have gladly given it to her had she asked for it. I was often given record store posters and stand up cut outs back in the day by just asking for them.

[Dex]

Originally Posted by vivfox

LOL IMHO, that is not the doll she is referring to in the song when she sings, "don't buy that doll." There was a space in time when Stevie would carry with her one of those life like baby dolls. She said in an interview she wanted to have a baby around 1991. I read many Ledgie's remarks about being creeped out by those dolls. I believe it was Tom telling her not to buy those dolls anymore. They were probably very expensive also.

Thanks for clearing that up. I will continue to be horrified by this information all day long.

[SorcererJP]

But where does the song 'Paper Doll' then fit in the picture

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by Dex

Thanks for clearing that up. I will continue to be horrified by this information all day long.

In the song, I think she is actually referring to a life-size poster, not a baby doll.

But on ebay you can see the type of dolls that Viv is talking about, if you do a search for "reborn doll". They are amazing and can cost thousands of dollars. I used to have a few myself and I would keep them in a white wicker tea caddy. I took the wheels off of it and set it up with blankets and ruffles to look like a double decker crib. It could be kind of freaky for anyone who came to my house for the first time.

Michele

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by StreetAngel86

this is gross. but that's what i thought initially too.
except why would she go TO him ...

he's the only one i could think of who would legit be worthy of a "doll" lol

Yes, I could buy into the argument that she went to Tom to tell him that she couldn't get over him and he told her to move on with her life, although the lyrics of the song were carefully crafted to conceal the fact that it was Tom she was talking to about Tom. And my reasoning was that Tom was the only one famous enough to have a poster of himself in music stores. Of course, not unless Stevie was secretly in love with another famous person like Elvis or Michael Jackson!

So, this Tom argument seemed plausible, but I have to say once someone posted that picture of the Joe Walsh life-size poster that really changed my mind and I had to conclude that maybe Stevie had been talking about Joe all along. I hadn't known there were life-sized posters of Walsh before I saw the photo.

Michele

[nicole21290]

Originally Posted by michelej1

But on ebay you can see the type of dolls that Viv is talking about, if you do a search for "reborn doll". They are amazing and can cost thousands of dollars. I used to have a few myself and I would keep them in a white wicker tea caddy. I took the wheels off of it and set it up with blankets and ruffles to look like a double decker crib. It could be kind of freaky for anyone who came to my house for the first time.

Michele

Yeah, the picture/s of her in the aiport with a doll are bad enough but for me, eek...

[UndoingTheLaces]

Originally Posted by vivfox

LOL IMHO, that is not the doll she is referring to in the song when she sings, "don't buy that doll."

Actually, in the early part of the song she sings "Saw a life-size paper doll of you
In a record store" so when he later says "don't buy that doll" you can assume he's talking about that doll.

Frankly the entire concept of large paper cutouts of people is one I find a little creepy, which is why its a lyric I really wish she'd changed. Who buys that crap? Who thinks it's a good idea to manufacture it? Well, apparently Stevie does, because she had to be told explicitly not to buy it at the end of the song. Something I rather wish I didn't know about her.

I live in Hollywood and some of the souvenir shops have them. One of them has a whole bunch and their display shelf always reminds me of The Beatles Sgt. Peppers album cover. I used to have an Elvira one when I was younger just because I thought she was cool and fun. And I thought it was funny to have Elvira standing in a corner in my living room. I've never heard them referred to as a "paper doll" but I think the reference comes from the fact that they resemble paper dolls little girls used to play with. Like this - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paper_doll

I think the song Paper Doll isn't about this particular paper doll but rather it's a metaphor for being objectified and treated like an object of beauty, to be dressed up, played with and shown off rather than being treated like a person. "I was your paper doll".

[vivfox]

Originally Posted by michelej1

In the song, I think she is actually referring to a life-size poster, not a baby doll.

Originally Posted by UndoingTheLaces

Actually, in the early part of the song she sings "Saw a life-size paper doll of you
In a record store" so when he later says "don't buy that doll" you can assume he's talking about that doll.

I can't say it is a fact that both of you are wrong because all her songs are meant to be interpreted in our own way. I believe she sings about many different subjects within the context of the song, and may be full of it for all I know. I think Tom is telling her to stay out of music stores because he knows other people's music can interfere with a writer's thought process in crafting a song. That's why he advises her to turn off the radio. But I firmly believe when he says not to buy that doll he is referring to the lifelike ones she was so fond of at the time and not the lifelike paper doll in the record store. BTW, I can't even bring myself to sing the word DOLL when I'm singing that song. I find it so silly. So I always sing, "don't buy that car."

[StreetAngel86]

Originally Posted by michelej1

Yes, I could buy into the argument that she went to Tom to tell him that she couldn't get over him and he told her to move on with her life, although the lyrics of the song were carefully crafted to conceal the fact that it was Tom she was talking to about Tom. And my reasoning was that Tom was the only one famous enough to have a poster of himself in music stores. Of course, not unless Stevie was secretly in love with another famous person like Elvis or Michael Jackson!

nah i meant more like she concealed the fact TO Tom that it was ABOUT Tom
firstly, she's a pretty bad liar
secondly, i think he'd know/knew if she was in love with him
so her going TO him about this "guy" she's supposedly in love with but can't have ... might send of some serious alarm bells to him.

did not know about the life sized JW posters ... i think that is more disturbing than Stevie's life like dolls. uuuuugh i just don't know with these rocks stars

he treats her like $ hit and she still wants him? ugh
Tom needs a gold star