Could SAY YOU WILL be IT????

[JamieSPC]

Listening to the brief snippet of "Say You Will" on FOX last night and then listening over and over and over again ( ) I started thinking, "Could this be the song Mac/Stevie fans have been waiting for for the last decade? We love "Thrown Down" and the stuff on "TISL" and "Street Angel" because we love Stevie, but honestly, it's not very commercial or mainstream, even "Everyday."

I'd love to see the band make a huge splash on radio with it. Wishful thinking?

That chorus is about as catchy as anything Stevie has written since "Stand Back." And it has me more excited about the album than anything I've heard so far, including "Peacekeeper" (though in my mind I can hear Stevie singing on that and it's an nice thought!).

~Jamie

[CarneVaca]

This will probably be the first single, considering the exposure. How sad that they have to release the song this way. I don't get it. If they're going to whore the songs to commercials, previews for a stupid TV show no less, then why not release one-minute snippets online instead? Oh, wait, it probably has something to do with the fact that Fox would have to pay the band and the label to use the song. Hmmm.... here comes that pesky money issue again.

As for the what I've heard of the song itself, the guitar is unquestionably Lindsey. There's no mistaking that sound, so it would make sense to release this as a single, if there is such a thing. I don't know what the excitement about the refrain we hear is about; it's just another Stevie Nicks retread: "Say you will give me one more chance." Where did I hear that? "Reconsider Me." The melody sounds like a slightly sped-up version of "Twisted." It's probably the same three chords. Waddy was right.

Oh well, I guess I just shouldn't expect brilliance from Stevie. Looks like I'll have to do what I did with Tusk: Take Lindsey's songs and make a separate album with them so I can listen without the distraction of non-Lindsey songs.

[Bella Figura]

lol, just to balance out the world karmically (sp), I'm going to have to make a Stevie only cd then!!!

[BlueGrass]

Yes, I will bet this is the first single. It would be very dumb for this not to be since they have broadcasted it on a big network like Fox.

The song is conservative Mac song, but I like Stevie & Lindsey's catchy lyrics, along with the guitar solo.

Also, they did cover the making of this song for most of the DOC, so I think that is another reason why "Say You Will" is the first single from the album.

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
I don't know what the excitement about the refrain we hear is about; it's just another Stevie Nicks retread... The melody sounds like a slightly sped-up version of "Twisted." It's probably the same three chords. Waddy was right.

Oh well, I guess I just shouldn't expect brilliance from Stevie.

Ahh, but Waddy also said that writing engaging songs, that so many people can relate to and involve themselves in... while using those three chords... IS Stevie's brilliance.
I guess that part of his comment didn't suit your argument.

As far as "retreads" go, chiliD quite accurately pointed out how closely several of Lindsey's 'Gift Of Screws' songs resemble many of his earlier songs.

All artists do that... it's the nature of the beast. A young artist's output might seem fresh and exciting in the beginning, but if they're still writing music 30 years later, you can bet that some of it is going to sound like things they've done in the past.
It's their personal style, and it's what makes them unique.

Or, one could go the David Bowie route, and do a complete 180 on your sound... thereby effectively alienating a large portion of your audience.

Either way, it all comes down to what appeals to us as individuals.


By the way... what's so wrong with the band wanting to make a little bit of money?
To me, there's nothing wrong with Fleetwood Mac letting Fox use a snippet of their music to help promote a TV series... which, essentially, is the same as a song being used on the soundtrack of a movie.

By the way, the band might not even make a penny off of this commercial, as it's most likely one of those "we'll scratch your back, if you scratch ours" kind of deals, like Elton John recently did to promote his "best of" compilation.
He offered CBS the chance to use some of his songs in the ads for some of their series. Giving the network some added exposure for their shows, and giving Elton's CD some free promotion... and no money exchanged hands.

TV spots reach a far broader audience than releasing teasers on an artist's official website ever could (though I wish they'd do that too!).

The route they've gone, is certainly better than bastardizing a song to hawk a car, a cola, or some household product.
(*ahem* Bob Seger *ahem* The Rolling Stones *ahem*)

But even if Fleetwood Mac *did* make some money by the use of "Say You Will"... where's the harm in that?
All cynicism aside, money *is* essential in our society, unless one wants to live in a shack in the woods somewhere (if you can even manage that luxury).

The band has to earn a living, so who are we to act snobbish, and criticize the way they do it?



Johnny Stew

[CarneVaca]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Johnny Stew
Ahh, but Waddy also said that writing engaging songs, that so many people can relate to and involve themselves in... while using those three chords... IS Stevie's brilliance.
I guess that part of his comment didn't suit your argument.

What Waddy really thinks only he knows. Surely you wouldn't expect him to say, "Stevie uses the same chords all the time, and frankly, I'm sick of it," would you? I mean, that would be biting the hand that feeds you.

As far as "retreads" go, chiliD quite accurately pointed out how closely several of Lindsey's 'Gift Of Screws' songs resemble many of his earlier songs.

Well, Chili is often right. Sometimes he's not, but I'll let him speak for himself, which is probably a good policy for all of us. The Gift of Screws songs have some similarities, in some cases, to earlier Lindsey songs. But there is an obvious evolution. For instance, the Out of the Cradle songs hardly had any bridges, but I think just about every Gift of Screws song he wrote has a bridge. Another example: Though you could argue that Red Rover is similar to the acoustic Big Love or whatever, the whole approach to the song is considerably different from anything he'd done before.

You can justify Stevie's lack of inspiration however you want and enumerate examples ad nauseum to prove your point, but that won't change the fact that she simply cannot write the way she once did. I think other objective-minded folks have made similar comments on these boards. Facts are facts. You cannot compare Thrown Down to Gypsy or Landslide. Thrown Down, or what I've heard of Say You Will, don't come close. Lindsey has made a heroic effort to give these songs some life, based on what I've heard so far.

By the way... what's so wrong with the band wanting to make a little bit of money?
To me, there's nothing wrong with Fleetwood Mac letting Fox use a snippet of their music to help promote a TV series... which, essentially, is the same as a song being used on the soundtrack of a movie.

Well, Johnny, if to you there's nothing wrong with it, that's fine with me. I simply don't like the idea of something that is supposedly art being cheapened in such a callous way. My opinion. Period. Disagree all you want.

the way, the band might not even make a penny off of this commercial, as it's most likely one of those "we'll scratch your back, if you scratch ours" kind of deals, like Elton John recently did to promote his "best of" compilation.

You don't know that. I don't think Mick Fleetwood is into giving stuff away for free. Look at what he's charging for membership in his club and the highway-robbery price is charging for pre-orders of the album.

band has to earn a living, so who are we to act snobbish, and criticize the way they do it?

Well, who are you to decide what I should criticize?

[ShangriLaTroubl]

I dont think debuting a clip in a commercial is a bad idea at all...who cares? Nothing wrong with promotion...put it this way, they KNOW the die hard fans will buy the cd, so they need to target other audiences who might not know they have a new release.....I havent heard enough of the song to determine how much I like it yet, but Im betting it will be the 1st single also

Chris

[BlueGrass]

Originally posted by ShangriLaTroubl
I dont think debuting a clip in a commercial is a bad idea at all...who cares? Nothing wrong with promotion...put it this way, they KNOW the die hard fans will buy the cd, so they need to target other audiences who might not know they have a new release.....I havent heard enough of the song to determine how much I like it yet, but Im betting it will be the 1st single also

Chris

I concur 100%.

[Johnny Stew]

I've said it a million times, and I'll probably end up saying it a million more... I'd never take it upon myself to tell someone how to act, how to feel, or what to say... it would be a boring world indeed, if everyone held the same opinions I do.
It just amazes me sometimes what is accepted and what isn't accepted, and how the delineation between the two so often seems to come down to whether it's in regards to Ms. Nicks, or Mr. Buckingham.

What you've called an "evolution" is considered a "retread" by others... and that's exactly the point I was trying to make: It all comes down to personal preference.

Certainly Stevie's music has evolved over the years... it just happens to have evolved into something that you have no interest in, and that's fine.
It's just a pity that you don't seem willing to allow someone else to like her current music, without continually implying that they're not being objective. Or... worse... that they're a fluff-for-brains, "chiffon-head."


As for the other points....
I find it very admirable that you have such an idealistic view of music as art.
I honestly feel the same way (hence my disdain for the use of songs to sell products).
However, I also concede that an artist *does* need to make money.
Who the heck wants to be a "starving artist"?
And don't we all wish we could make some money for doing the thing that we love most?
I know I do.

Royalties and licensing fees are a musician's retirement plan, and all I was trying to say, is that I think it's a bit hypocritical for ANY of us (not just you) to criticize them for wanting to make some money while they're able to.

But... again... you're certainly entitled to do so if you wish, just as I'm entitled to post an opposing viewpoint if I wish.



Johnny Stew

[jwd]

Could this be the song Mac/Stevie fans have been waiting for for the last decade?

Could Be!!

Well it certainly wasn't "Thrown Down". In comparison to the other demo/outtakes from TISL it was my least favorite. I'm really hoping that song was left somewhere on the "cutting room floor". It's already gotten old with ME.

"Say You Will"...even that tiny little snippet of the song made my ears perk up....can't wait to hear the rest of it. THIS song definitely piqued my interest in the album a lot more. I think the chorus on the song is catchy and I love IT. Hearing Stevie's and Lindsey's voices together in that way is just the icing on the cake for me.

YUMMY...give me more!


Joe

[WelshWitchPMD]

Originally posted by jwd
Could Be!!............


"Say You Will"...even that tiny little snippet of the song made my ears perk up....can't wait to hear the rest of it. THIS song definitely piqued my interest in the album a lot more. I think the chorus on the song is catchy and I love IT. Hearing Stevie's and Lindsey's voices together in that way is just the icing on the cake for me.


Joe

Yes, I felt the same way about it. It also went very well with the commercial. I don't like "Peacekeeper" that much and "Thrown Down" is a little boring.

[jmn3]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew

The route they've gone, is certainly better than bastardizing a song to hawk a car, a cola, or some household product.
(*ahem* Bob Seger *ahem* The Rolling Stones *ahem*)

Ugh...I love the Stones, but I honestly can't stand to hear "Start Me Up" anymore. It's only on what seems like every two commercials, all day, every day!

[CarneVaca]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Johnny Stew
What you've called an "evolution" is considered a "retread" by others... and that's exactly the point I was trying to make: It all comes down to personal preference.

Go examine the music more closely if you think Lindsey's evolution is a retreading. He's not using the same tired old chords again and again, and the same tired old words again and again (with the exception of the bridge in Bleed to Love Her, but that was a case in which it made artistic sense). That's a huge difference.

It's just a pity that you don't seem willing to allow someone else to like her current music, without continually implying that they're not being objective. Or... worse... that they're a fluff-for-brains, "chiffon-head."

I had to laugh out loud at this passage. I don't "allow" people to like her music? You've assigned me way too much imaginary power, dude. As for the second part of that, I have yet to use the terms "fluff-for-brains" or "chiffon-head." So don't put words in my mouth, or my keyboard as it were.

However, I also concede that an artist *does* need to make money.
Who the heck wants to be a "starving artist"?

I'm laughing again. You're beginning to sound like George Bush, and Clinton before him. Stick with reality, Johnny. Stevie and Lindsey are far from "starving artists." If you want to have an honest discussion, you shouldn't even make such an outrageous statement, with all due respect.

"And don't we all wish we could make some money for doing the thing that we love most? I know I do."

As a matter of fact, I am in that fortunate position. My point was against whoring yourself.

Royalties and licensing fees are a musician's retirement plan, and all I was trying to say, is that I think it's a bit hypocritical for ANY of us (not just you) to criticize them for wanting to make some money while they're able to.

So you don't think Lindsey and Stevie have made enough money to retire comfortably? Again, let's stick with reality.

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
I don't "allow" people to like her music? You've assigned me way too much imaginary power, dude.

So very often during these types of threads, when people are discussing something that you don't happen to care for, you're quite quick to suggest that they're simply not being objective. The implication being that otherwise they'd agree with you.

That was all I meant when I said you don't "allow" people to like Stevie's new music.

I'm not saying that you shouldn't express the opinion that you don't like something... I just find the statements of a lack of objectivity, to be belittling to many of the people on these boards. And that's not even based solely on my viewpoint, as several people have expressed this concern to me. So, as a moderator, I'm just trying to make sure that *everyone* feels their opinion is respected, whether I share the opinion or not.

Originally posted by CarneVaca
Stick with reality, Johnny. Stevie and Lindsey are far from "starving artists."

I don't recall saying that they were. I merely asked why anyone would *want* to be a "starving artist."

Lindsey & Stevie (and the rest of the band) want to make money, just like the rest of us do, and for us to expect them to keep art and commerce seperate, is a rather naive way of thinking.

You mentioned that you're fortunate enough to make money doing something you love, and that's a terrific thing to be able to say.
But, still, you're getting paid for your services, so I imagine you've sometimes been given assignments, that you'd really rather not have to do... but if you didn't, you wouldn't keep your job, and wouldn't continue earning money for your present and your future.
We have to make concessions if we wish to earn a living... even if we're doing something we love.

And hopefully you have a nice little retirement package waiting for you.
But no matter how much money Lindsey, Stevie, et al., have at this particular moment in time... if they were to stop recording or touring after this album, or even the next, that money would most likely not last another 20 or 30 years.
At least not if they wish to send their children to college, or to continue taking care of their extended families, or even to just live in the manor that they desire.
So they have to find some way to keep that money coming in (although $80 fanclub membership dues is DEFINITELY going too far).
As it is, they're really just trying to make sure their album sells well, and that they can fill those arenas... and as far as the music industry goes, that's the least of all evils.

I don't think it's fair for any of us to accuse Fleetwood Mac of being slaves to the "almighty dollar," when... in essence... we *all* are.
They have to earn a living, just like we do... and they have to provide for their futures, and the future of their families, just like we do.

Anyway, this thread is now veering *totally* off course, so I'll end there.



Johnny Stew

[DownOnRodeo]

Could SAY YOU WILL be IT????



YES!