Your opinion on "demos"

[HighPassion]

So, I'm getting a bit of a moral dilemma. I want to know what other Stevie Nicks fans think as well (especially those who collect tonnes of demos).


When I first got into Stevie/Mac, I had a hayday with collecting as many bootlegs and demos etc. as I could because I was thrilled to hear them. I love hearing studio work and how a song progresses into the final product. Or different interpretations of them from previous generations. It utterly fascinated me (and it still does).

I remember collecting all of them, and my dad (who is a huge music buff and somewhat works in the music scene) would tell me that he remembers artists used to give away demo tapes and soundboard shows to fans a lot in the 70's. He even had a demo tape of some Rumours tracks but misplaced it somewhere. Trust me, I've been after him since the day I found out about that to find it haha. But he hasn't. I've kind of given up hope.

Anywho, getting back on topic. I just assumed that these demos and stuff came from FM/Stevie giving tapes to fans and all that jazz.

Then the moral dilemma started...

I remember watching a copy of the uncut VH1 Storytellers, and a fan asked her about "Forest of the Black Roses" and "The Tower" (I think?). And Stevie was clearly PISSED. As she explained that those tapes of unreleased stuff came about because somebody actually went in and stole her tapes and copied them out to people. Like, she definitely held onto that grudge all those years.

So I kind of backed off from listening to the unreleased stuff after hearing that. Just to kind of respect her. I would still listen to audience bootlegs and soundboard shows though - I personally don't see the harm in those. Every band has them.

Like Jimmy Page once said, "You know you've finally gotten somewhere when someone starts to bootleg your show."

However, those unreleased songs are quite a different story. So I stopped listening to them, and stayed satisfied with my released Stevie material. I know that if there are songs she wants us to hear, she'll get them to us eventually (sometimes it takes longer than others).

And I also recall her saying once, if the song isn't out yet - there's a reason for it. It hasn't been perfected yet, it's still missing something and is she was waiting for someone to give it that extra zing that it needs. I think she was referring to Planets of the Universe when she said that, but I'm not sure. So I figured, fair enough.


Then I kind of forgot about all that, and with In Your Dreams coming out, my Stevie fever came back and I have been coming on here trading demos and getting more demos and having a hayday.

THEN I heard an interview with her where they were talking about "Secret Love", and how she was annoyed how all her unreleased stuff is now all over youtube. She said it was good in a sense that she was able to find that song again, but mad because that meant someone STOLE her tapes etc. And it brought back all my guilty memories of collecting unreleased stuff.

So my question to you all is, should a legit Stevie fan respect her wishes, and keep those songs locked up in a box like she has done? Or should we not worry about listening to them, being as she may never get around to recording all of them.

It's a tricky one, because I think some of her best work has yet to see the light of day. However, I can also see even with those songs, how they do need some work on them and she probably would rather us wait (if she gets around to recording them all).

And now I'm excited, cause Dave Stewart seemed to have resurrected the muse in her. So maybe she'll finally record some of those lost gems.

What do you guys think? If someone truely respects Stevie as an artist and is a "fan", should they respect her wishes?

[skcin]

Lindsay (Sapphiresister) just attended an event & asked Stevie about this - maybe she can tell the story again? I got the impression that Stevie wasn't all that angry about it anymore.


I think it's a bummer that it happened, and I know that she feels the work isn't finished. But it's out there & has been for years. I see no harm in listening as long as I'm not trying to profit.

[KarmaContestant]

Meh.

Stevie herself gave away demo tapes all the time. She's admitted it - making tapes for all of her friends. Surely some tapes were stolen, but all of these demos didn't appear at one time; they've slowly leaked out since the late 70's. Stevie is as much responsible for her demos circulating as anyone else.

The material is all unreleased so there's really no copyright infringement when trading with others, and Stevie nor her agents have ever made any effort to remove that material from circulation (Difficult but not impossible). They haven't even asked that the demos be removed from YouTube, which would be very easy to do.

For all of her complaining, I think she secretly enjoys that her demos are so popular. It is because of them that I've been a fan for as long as I have...otherwise I'd have probably given up back in 1989.

[GarboSpeaks!]

They are out there, so what's done is done.
I say that because for as ticked off as she comes across, this keeps happening. I get that now we are in the digital age where it would be near impossible to keep her demo's and stuff a secret, but THEY KEEP surfacing. I find that odd. I don't think she has any control over it, but I still wonder.
Her fans adore her, and they WANT to respect her wishes, but for the love of her music and artistry, it's like trying to conquer an addiction, with the stuff within reach. VERY difficult!
What I do is not go out of my way to help people that make a profit from it. That last seller who had a bunch of stuff, I think they were just a lucky auction unit winner and atleast they are getting it into the hands of fans, BUT, I just hate to see the money go to anyone but Stevie. If a group of fans buy it and distribute it amongst MORE fans, I think that's awesome, and again, despite SN's feelings, I think somewhere, somehow she would totally agree with that.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by KarmaContestant

For all of her complaining, I think she secretly enjoys that her demos are so popular.

This. I also think Stevie will be happy that her demos bring joy to many of her fans. I think she'd be pissed with the people who stole them and then profited from them; as most people would be, one would think.

Personally, I love listening to Stevie's demos. In some cases, it's interesting to see where she's recycled an idea or a lyric and used it in her published works. And in other cases it's fun to see whether the official version is better than the demo; or vice versa. (Smile At You springs to mind immediately here!)

[mikebise]

Originally Posted by GarboSpeaks!

That last seller who had a bunch of stuff, I think they were just a lucky auction unit winner and atleast they are getting it into the hands of fans, BUT, I just hate to see the money go to anyone but Stevie. If a group of fans buy it and distribute it amongst MORE fans, I think that's awesome, and again, despite SN's feelings, I think somewhere, somehow she would totally agree with that.

"Singing it to ya... She's singin' it to ya..."

"Oh no, baby, this is the EDGE OF IT!!!!!"

[WildHearted]

Personally, I don't feel bad about it...

I love hearing how the demos progressed into actual finished recordings, etc... Stevie has some real treasures in her demos that haven't been released, too, as we all know. And the ones that have made it to albums, a lot of the times in a way I prefer the demos because of the rawness and intimacy. Like the above said, what's done is done.. I'm sure she's mad that they were taken from her etc, but I don't think at this point she's upset that her fans are listening to them and enjoy them.

Now, the smart thing to do would be for Stevie to compile some of the better ones that she knows she isn't going to do anything with, and release them on a CD.... I mean, we have them anyway, she might as well release better quality copies of them and make some money for herself.

[HighPassion]

Oh I totally agree that they are enjoyable to listen to, and finding differences or "what was used where" sort of thing.

I guess you guys have a good point though. Although, to me it kind of seems that she's like "Well, what's done is done and there's nothing you can do about it", but she doens't exactly seem happy about it per say.

Like, I don't think she'd go through all the effort to take them away from us - because the damage is done. But I've never got a happy vibe from it in any way. Like, every time I've heard her talk about it she seemed like she was in a kaffufel.

But too, that could very well be because she's more so mad that someone actually stole them from her. Or that her so-called friends tried making a profit out of them.

I don't know. I'm not trying to sound like a hypocrite - cause I do enjoy listening to them and find it neat. However, I think it's something I'll never come to terms with it unless I sit down and have a chat with her about it.

[Annabell Lee]

I used to be sooo determined not to listen to anything of Stevie's that wasn't actually released. Over time however, my views have def. softened. I, just like any diehard Stevie fan, craves any new music i can get my hands on. That includes released music or demos.I love Stevie to death but,10 yrs. is a long time to expect anyone to wait for a brand new cd ! So i fill the years with music of hers that i may or may not have heard before. I figure as long as i am not profiting from the demos it's all right for ME. It's def. an individual decision to make.I do find it odd also that with her handing demos out to her friends, she's surprised the music has found a home online ! It was only a matter of time, really. I also belive she is secretly happy that so may people enjoy these little jewels !

[jeffd8382]

I agree with the sentiment of most of you here... I'm sorry (and I mean this very sincerely) that it bothers her that this stuff has circulated/is circulating... and it's not fair from her perspective since she wrote/recorded it... but what's out there is out there. Since they do exist, I don't think there's anything wrong with sharing the material... even if it is the result of criminal behavior (like stealing tapes), which I don't condone in any way. At this point, we have no way of knowing where a lot of the material originated from anyway... and as others have pointed out, a lot of it probably did come from her sharing her tapes with friends/associates. It does upset me when people who have obtained unreleased material try and profit from other fans' desire to hear it... that, to me, is wrong and they should be ashamed of themselves. If they don't want to share it freely, that's their prerogative (although I think that's a shame too and don't really understand it). On the flip side, I think it's incredibly kind of those who do share to share... and in the case of master reels, I know certain people have spent a lot of their own hard-earned money to have them transferred only to turn around and generously share them with other fans. I guess that's a long answer to a simple question... but no, I don't have an issue listening/sharing the unreleased material and I hope that doesn't offend anyone.

My hope is that one day she'll decide to officially share a lot of her unreleased material, realizing that fans enjoy hearing how songs have evolved and it doesn't detract from the finished product.. or that even though she thought the song wasn't right/finished/worthy of releasing, others may appreciate them and think of them as favorites.

[SapphireSister]

Yes, since I've been curious all these years about the demos and since I knew it would be something my fellow Ledgies would be interested in hearing about I asked Stevie directly how she feels about her demos being out there. I prefaced it by saying (at least 3 times) "please don't be mad at me Stevie" and she didn't seem the least bit disturbed in her response. She said of course she knows they are out there and that things were different back in the days when there would be parities and people would just grab a cassette off the table and she was like "yeah, go ahead and take it" and thought nothing of it. She was totally not angry or resentful in any way when she responded and even re-assured me that she wasn't mad. I think she went through many, many years being extremely upset about the whole demos thing but that lately she's come to accept it and perhaps even embrace it since that's how she was able to track down Secret Love. I'm sure a part of her still has some resentment regarding the subject but she seems to have mellowed on the matter.

[mikebise]

Thank you, Lindsay, for such a great post! I ALWAYS LOVE seeing your screenname in a thread!!!!

"HOW WILL WE FEEL TEN YEARS FROM NOW???"

[KarmaContestant]

Originally Posted by SapphireSister

Yes, since I've been curious all these years about the demos and since I knew it would be something my fellow Ledgies would be interested in hearing about I asked Stevie directly how she feels about her demos being out there. I prefaced it by saying (at least 3 times) "please don't be mad at me Stevie" and she didn't seem the least bit disturbed in her response. She said of course she knows they are out there and that things were different back in the days when there would be parities and people would just grab a cassette off the table and she was like "yeah, go ahead and take it" and thought nothing of it. She was totally not angry or resentful in any way when she responded and even re-assured me that she wasn't mad. I think she went through many, many years being extremely upset about the whole demos thing but that lately she's come to accept it and perhaps even embrace it since that's how she was able to track down Secret Love. I'm sure a part of her still has some resentment regarding the subject but she seems to have mellowed on the matter.

Thank you very much for sharing that.

[SapphireSister]

Originally Posted by mikebise

Thank you, Lindsay, for such a great post! I ALWAYS LOVE seeing your screenname in a thread!!!!

"HOW WILL WE FEEL TEN YEARS FROM NOW???"

I love you too sweet darlin'. xoxo

P.S. check your pm's.

[HighPassion]

Originally Posted by SapphireSister

Yes, since I've been curious all these years about the demos and since I knew it would be something my fellow Ledgies would be interested in hearing about I asked Stevie directly how she feels about her demos being out there. I prefaced it by saying (at least 3 times) "please don't be mad at me Stevie" and she didn't seem the least bit disturbed in her response. She said of course she knows they are out there and that things were different back in the days when there would be parities and people would just grab a cassette off the table and she was like "yeah, go ahead and take it" and thought nothing of it. She was totally not angry or resentful in any way when she responded and even re-assured me that she wasn't mad. I think she went through many, many years being extremely upset about the whole demos thing but that lately she's come to accept it and perhaps even embrace it since that's how she was able to track down Secret Love. I'm sure a part of her still has some resentment regarding the subject but she seems to have mellowed on the matter.

Interesting tidbit. thanks for sharing