Mick admits FM lied & Lindsey was telling the truth all along (Mojo)
 

i think May 2019 Mojo thread is way too long and too convoluted. what's in that article needs a new discussion thread now when we actually got to read the whole thing.

some things i enjoyed about the article and interviews;

• Mick finally admitting he / the band lied in CBS interview and all their PR, and that it was Stevie who pulled the trigger as Lindsey was saying from the start :nod: :thumbsup:
• Christine saying that the issue was between Stevie and Lindsey, not the rest of the band
• Billboard article came out the same day where their managers (Sheryl Lewis and Carl Stubner) stick with the original April 2018 script they sent to all outlets. it looked completely ridiculous having 2 completely different version coming out from the band members and from their management on the same day
• some of the song descriptions
• Rick Vito saying he's watching "with interest" what's going on with the band now
• Mick basically saying "screw you" to all the fans being unhappy with the band and their lies on social media :]:]

there are more but these are what i can remember right now.

I hope a couple of years from now Lindsey can watch them "with interest" from afar, just like Rick is doing now. And smile. :thumbsup:

yup. there are tons of little quotes dispersed all over the article making it crystal clear that they went with protecting the corporation over protecting the band and the legacy. for example this little nugget:

"Which means, of course, that Christine McVie was put in the awkward position of having to make a choice - to take one for the team, as is said - and essentially take the side not of her most worthy artistic collaborator, but of ensuring that Fleetwood Mac, the corporate entity, might continue as deserved. It was not an easy spot to be in."

Has anyone posted the whole article yet? I’ve only seen bits & pieces so far (maybe i’m just out of the loop :sorry:)

another excerpt (Mojo May 2019) - starting from a part of Mick's interview (and no Mick, not everyone knows that. you are trying to ensure people don't know that):

"And so it's been fun," Fleetwood says. "And this is no deference in any way to Lindsey. Lindsey is totally unique, and he always has that, and he will always have full kudos of being a major, major part of the history of this band. We know that. You know that. But it's about once you've made a decision to go forward..."

Exactly why that decision was made isn't something anyone's eager to talk about, least of all the musicians involved in the settlement. But all signs point to Stevie Nicks being miffed at Buckingham's on-stage behaviour at the MusiCares benefit to honour the band in New York early last year.

Two days after that event, "[Band manager] Irving Azoff called me up and he was basically screaming at me," Buckingham told CBS News in early December. "He was screaming at me on the phone saying, "You've really done it this time." And I had no idea what he was talking about. He said, "Stevie never wants to be on stage with you again," and I'm going, Why?"
According to Azoff, Buckingham said, Nicks had complained that the guitarist had smirked behind her that night when she gave her acceptance speech.
"Irving told me a couple of days later she'd given the band an ultimatum, and either I had to go or she was going to go," Buckingham said.

love how they now admit it was all Stevie, yet they still don't want to address why was decision made.

no, it's behind the paywall. i bought an online instant download on Mojo app. i have the article, and there are people on fb that have been sharing more of the interviews, including screenshots.

i'm transcribing little excerpts here, but i definitely have no time or inclination to transcribe the whole thing. i don't know what the policy is here of posting the screenshots of the whole interview?

Hi Elle

I've been sitting on the edge of the ledge for a long time hoping against hope that all would be OK but i've had it with
mr meet and $$$$$..... Stev$$ and ChrisT$$$ and Joh$ too

in Atlantic City 2009 this group opened my eyes and ears (Unleashed june 13)to music in general and made me feel young again , for that i must thank them ,I now am a dedicated follower of most 'classic rock' groups : The Mac and Lindsey and stev$$ solo have always been our # 1 choice but the MAC always included Lindsey, and i never really realized how the whole must be comprised of ALL its parts to work . we saw them again at the same venue almost 10 years later and it was not the same ... and having followed all the drama etc 'on line' for almost a year i have now reluctantly realized/ accepted that it was a collective decision to self-destruct and there was one person who pulled the pin from the grenade

RIP Fleetwood Mac

more excerpts:

And there you have it, the proverbial rock and hard place, complicated by the fact that the last batch of new Fleetwood Mac product, if you will, was the Lindsey Buckingham Christine McVie album, released in 2017 and probably the finest bit of Fleetwood-related product since Tango In The Night, 30 years and many dollars ago. On it was every member of the "Rumopurs Five" but Nicks, who apparently had other commitments. A smallish, low-key tour featuring Buckingham and McVie followed, but it was emphatically not Fleetwood Mac - especially for those keeping box-office score.

i find this bit so telling - it's the crux of why the band - and even more, managers - went with Stevie. and it's also why she gave an ultimatum in the first place, at this time - she just finished arena tour, they just finished smaller shed tour. in reality "smallish" is such interesting term to use, considering their tour probably had more dates than Stevie's tour that was spread over 2 years. so while it might be implied smallish may mean not many dates, what it really clearly means is what i highlighted in red at the end of that sentence - :nod:

i saw on fb you guys went last week. thanks for sharing your impressions! :wavey:

Of course Christine would pick Fleetwood Mac, the corporate entity, over her most worthy artistic collaborator. Her fortunes had been tied to that corporate entity for fifty years by that point, first as John’s wife and then as a bandmate.

I have been a fan since the 1970s and have purchased everything since then (minus the Time album.) I have not spent a cent on this band since Lindsey was fired.I will support any future work he does .

That doesn’t surprise me at all. I mean, look at the setlist. If there was a sudden parting of ways Mike for whatever reason (not to suggest there’s trouble in paradise), Rick’s probably the only guitarist who could come in and hit the ground running, and he knows that.

"And so it's been fun," Fleetwood says. "And this is no deference in any way to Lindsey. Lindsey is totally unique, and he always has that, and he will always have full kudos of being a major, major part of the history of this band. We know that. You know that. But it's about once you've made a decision to go forward..."

ok well in addition to looking up the definition of "democracy" for Chris, ole Mick needs to look up the meaning of the word "deference". Showing deference means showing respect or regard for someone, either because you personally respect them or because of their position (ex., showing deference to the Queen of England).

So....."this is no deference in any way to Lindsey" is a weird sentence based on the words he used and what they actually mean vs what he *thinks* they mean in his usual word salad. Using lots of word doesn't make you sound any smarter, Mick.

This is disgusting---truly disgusting. Who is that quoting?

Lindsey and Mick both use a lot of words to say very little.

I still love this band and always will. I did not see this line up in concert on this tour but I would have considered it if they were promoting a new album. I would buy a new album by this lineup for sure. I will continue to support Lindsey’s solo work and pray that he recovers from his surgery. It sucks what went down but this band is the soundtrack of my life and “ I Can’t Go Back”. 😎

all quotes from Christine in the article:

"Well, truthfully," she tells me, again a few days prior to Buckingham's heart surgery, "I suppose that in the end we had to make a choice. Lindsey, you know... I really don't want to harp on this very much, because what's done is done. And for whatever reasons, a lot being personal, it was the only route we could take, because there was just too much animosity between certain members of the band at that point, and there was just no way it could've gone on as a five-piece, a group with Lindsey in the band. So it was either just completely break up the band, or try and make the best of it."

McVie's take seems a mix between looking on the bright side - an admirably positive approach - and genuine regret at how things turned out. But she gives Mick Fleetwood full credit for carrying on.

"Mick is the granddaddy of the band," "And he lives to make it survive. And he has a way of finding the right people at the right time. And it was Mike Campbell and Neil Finn - they fit the bill absolutely perfectly.

"But it was a really hard time. I had really no bones to pick with Lindsey, I loved working with him, but i did see the point, and i did see what the problem was. And you know, we're a democracy, and we had to kind of make the best of a bad job, really. As it turns out, what we have now is better than what we ever had before, I believe."

several points here:

• this make Christine look really bad - a spineless, horrible and ignorant person.
• it's not really clear in several of the places what exactly is she talking about, and which timeframe - before or after Lindsey was thrown out by Mick and Stevie? like - "it was a really hard time" - when? when she found out Lindsey was out and had to make a decision whether to stay in the band?
• "Lindsey, you know...." what do we know? that they screwed him? but she doesn't want to say it because it's a done deal now? "I really don't want to harp on this very much, because what's done is done." well Christine, even though it's a done deal, you can make it better or worse by saying hurtful stuff. and you are definitely making it worse.
• did Mick tell her they'll disband if she says she's out if Lindsey is out - since apparently Mick told her Lindsey has to be out, there's no discussion about that, because there will be no FM 5 if they try to call Lindsey back because in that case Stevie will leave? "just too much animosity between certain members of the band"
• the writer seems to describe Christine as being sad about the whole situation - "genuine regret at how things turned out" - yet other than that "really hard time" she doesn't say anywhere that she's sad about it so was there more that she said and they didn't quote? if so, why?
• Christine obviously has no clue what democracy means. it's almost like Mick threw around the term and told her to use it and now she's using it.

talking about Mick, man we have to get to his ridiculous nonsensical logic. :laugh::] i just don't even feel like re-reading his blabbering-fool wording. one of these days.

the article writer.

what really annoys me in all the reporting on this is how simplistic the writers/so-called reporters are--- all any of them have to do is watch the snippet of the awards where Stevie gives her speech to see Mick and Chris waltzing away...and call them out on that, like, why wasn't THAT more of a problem? But they don't. All the articles say "Lindsey re-ignited his ongoing feud with Stevie" WTF??

all the articles that are spin off the Mojo original article talk about "re-igniting the feud" not the Mojo article.

and yes - putting it on Lindsey for smirking, which makes zero sense. Stevie was the one re-igniting the feud. for whatever stupid bitter reason she may had. (a power play seems the most probable to me - she WINS. with 2 of them it was always a completely idiotic and childish competition.) but yes, as i was transcribing that part from Mojo, i was thinking exact same thing - what about Mick and Christine waltzing? why are they not thrown out for "igniting the feud"? :shrug:

wonder if they got a chewing-out from her? Then her telling Mick he owes it to her to kick LB out after he (Mick) contributed to mocking her. :shrug:

For all we know, it might have been a problem. Who’s to say Mick and Christine didn’t get an earful, too? However, Stevie has a very different relationship with them, which might be the difference between getting a terse phone call vs. being on the wrong end of an ultimatum.

What I want to know is timeline, but I wouldn’t trust them on a good day to be accurate about that. Any of them, including Lindsey.

My guess is that Stevie wanted him out for quite awhile she just had to wait until her own stock was high enough. She had recently sold out arenas in a solo tour and has been able to up her brand in pop culture in recent years. She just lay in wait for an excuse no matter how petty to demand his ouster from Fleetwood Mac.

Unfortunately, I agree. She has been waiting for the perfect opportunity for years. They don't need him anymore. Doesn't have to deal with him anymore. A very business-like decision. Because that's all this people care.

And please, spare me the "they're all friends with each other but Lindsey" speech. Christine is friends with Jenny Boyd, not with Stevie Nicks. She just tolerates her. Same goes with John, and Mick. Brits may be friends with each other but not with Stevie.

yes, this was my first comment on here when all this broke.... "revenge is a dish best served cold". She's been waiting for a long time. Who knows, this might have even been part of her strategy in refusing to record. Nothing would surprise me with this toxic bunch.

Not to get into semantics, but she has not sold out arenas on her own in a very long time. She's only filling arenas by being part of a double bill.

I'm telling you, this goes back to the SYW recording and that friggin Bob Dylan comment. She was so positively offended by that - it's like a jagged line can be drawn from 2002 to her mother dying, Christine coming back, and Tom Petty dying...to Lindsey getting the boot. All of those things had to happen in order for her to pounce and kick him out. She's a petty little narcissist with an uncanny ability to hold ridiculously stupid grudges.

Exactly. It wasn't that long ago that she was opening for Rod Stewart. This idea that she's equal to FM with respect to her ability to draw a crowd solo is ridiculous.

True. However, she’s still at least an arena act as a solo artist. LBCM weren’t able to fill mid-sized amphitheaters. Don’t think that went unnoticed.

I personally believe LBCM could have been an arena act as part of a double bill if Mick and John had toured with them and it had been called Fleetwood Mac. But, that would have been risky to the long term viability of Fleetwood Mac.

The sad reality is that Fleetwood Mac isn’t a $100 million band without her, and I can’t fault them for picking sides when that kind of money was involved. There are a lot of people on that payroll.

Bashing Lindsey on every opportunity they have is part of their charity plan too? :rolleyes:

This. When Lindsey and Christine toured together, they hired a band they could afford, leaving Mick and John out. So even though Buck/Vie was really a FM album, there was no money to be made for the band if they toured as FM. And touring is how Mick and John make their money. Touring is how Mick and John always made their income. They may be wealthy, but they still have bills to pay. It's funny that some people here think FM should have retired when they fired Lindsey, in order to "keep their legacy intact." Legacies don't pay the bills, and mansions and yachts and college educations for the kids and grandkids don't come cheap. Plus, they really like touring, not just Mick and John, but everyone else, too.

^^^^^ alternative facts. you can't just make stuff up and state it as truth without being called on it.

it was Mick and John's (well let's face it - i have no doubt it was Mick's! :lol:) decision not to tour with them. so it would not be Fleetwood Mac. they could have toured with them, and even as Fleetwood Mac. Mick wanted to make sure his cash cow is intact.

are you?

talking about "little people" on FM payroll that you are so worried about, there are plenty of stories how much Lindsey was protecting people from Stevie / Karen random rage decisions. gotta wonder what's been happening now when that protection is gone.

remember Jana's post about it, relatively recently?

I've wondered about Brett Tuggle. I found it odd how he want from Stevie's band ($), to Lindsey's band (less $? and less touring), to leaving FM altogether (unlike Neale Heywood) when Lindsey left.

Also, I know he was on the first leg, but was Neale on the second leg of the Buckingham-McVie tour?

I understand your anger and share much of it, but I'll refrain from judging Christine since, after a 16-yrear break, she stepped into a minefield. It's clear she has more musical respect for Lindsey than anyone else. He is her true collaborator. It's also true that Christine's sense of loyalty is to a band that she has loved and joined long before he was a part of that. That she sought out Mick to help her over her fear of flying says how close she is with him. Yes, all of the Brits chose the corporate entity over the creative surge of new music--but they clearly had to choose! THAT is not their fault. THAT fault belongs to the two who couldn't abide one another and made life miserable for everyone else.

Do I wish the band chose Lindsey over Stevie? You bet. The possibilities would have been so rich! But it simply wasn't going to happen. Greed, fear, and an entity called Management made sure of that. I don't think Christine had much of a choice if she wanted to stay involved--and she wants to stay involved.

This all came as a surprise to...? :]:]:]

These vapid, shallow, sad caricatures.
Did they forget you can't take it with you?

Odd to me that they chose dollars over respect and reputation.
This is what, in the end, they'll be remembered for.

Greed's karma is a bitch.

100 percent agree. The last tour she did was successful because it was a double bill of classic rock acts. If she toured solo again with zero opening act she wouldn't get the numbers she had for 24karat gold She would likely get the same or slightly better then Buckvie got on their tour.

Tina Tuner last toured at aged 68-69 11 years ago with no support act and she sold out on her name alone. She didn't need an opener to sell tickets.

The fans who blindly worship her won't ever concede that though.

When I saw the Rod Stewart tour in MTL I was the ONLY SN fan there. Everyone else was there for him hands down. As soon as he hit the stage the went wild. When she performed her set they sat down and while they were respectful and clapped etc they were not dancing in the aisles either.

On Facebook there is a real crazed SN worshiper. Back when Lindsey was fired last year he attacked me on my wall and Lindsey a Bastard. Then he tried to say that the Buckingham McVie album was titled just that as a kiss off to SN referencing the Buckingham Nicks album. Later on in the year he rambles on about Lindsey's boring solo's and how he has to do them to try and compete with her talent. Yesterday he and I got into it and I just have to laugh at his stupid comments. All year long he was saying we don't know what happened or that Lindsey wasn't a team player etc and when I pointed out that the band has had three stories going about why he was fired and can't seem to stick to one he responds by saying that there are lots of stories going around and I cherry picking ones. Really??? Quoting what the band and PR people put out is cherry picking???

It gets better

He and another SN worshiper attack a friend of mine calling her out for being a Trump supporter and that that explains why she would support Lindsey vs supporting a strong intelligent women. Then go on and on about republicans don't have any strong intelligent women in their party etc. Not sure how being a Trump supporter has anything to do with supporting Lindsey.

I swear I can't make this **** up.

Plus, it was the first time BuckVie ever toured. And they extended the tour. It was fantastic as far as I'm concerned. To compare it to SN/Pretenders tour is a bit ignorant of the circumstances. BuckVie made it's artistic imprint for the year and I'm quite impressed. What a summer of fun.

Well, Mick wanted to make sure his cow was intact, we all know his cash rarely is.

Can you point to the Jana post? I recall one about Lindsey spending a couple hours on a flight discussing her music and having learned one of her songs to give her feedback etc. but not anything re: shielding people from rage decisions.:eek: