Stevie Nicks Always Wanted Mike Campbell in FM???
 

https://youtu.be/PT7vC8CuOdM

Some have suspected this. He mentions Nightbird sounding like a Heartbreakers song in this video. He posted about this elsewhere but I couldn't find it.

I remember watching one of this guy's videos right after Lindsey was fired. He was fairly nonchalant about it-- chalking it up to the usual FM drama, Lindsey left before and they survived, and the addition of capable musicians. His perspective has really changed over time. Just the video titles alone indicate this: "Is FM In Damage Control", "Stevie Nicks Should Have Toughed It Out". I know he got major backlash in the comment sections early on. It's interesting to see the evolution of his viewpoint since he doesn't seem like a FM fanatic.

Lola, you do realize this is just some random dude with no insider knowledge filming himself in his living room, right? Why is the stuff he pulls out of his a$$ worthy of its own thread? As you yourself say, he's not even much of a fan! These titles should at least be phrased as "There's a random guy who thinks that Stevie Nicks always wanted Mike Campbell in Fleetwood Mac" to show that they're not based on comments by someone in the know, as most would assume when they read the title.

Just thought it was interesting, nothing more. I'll try to be more descriptive in the title--question marks didn't work. He is a random guy no doubt but I didn't get to that part till after the video. Mods can delete this thread. I work nights and sometimes this kind of stuff happens with me in the middle of my shift when I'm getting tired :p

Sorry if I sounded harsh, but the last thread sparked people all over Facebook talking about how FM was going to tour with Journey, as if "industry insiders" had talked about it and it seriously might happen!

It’s interesting, and yes, I think this was planned, at least since Tom’s death. No grieving involved, of course. And Lindsey (for those who have forgotten it, the victim here), never saw it coming.

You did nothing wrong. Stevie did. ;)

OMG!! I don't do Facebook so I had no idea. Holy crap!

I cant even watch or listen to this guy because it takes him forever to make one point plus those sunglasses are so dorky.
He has no insider information and he is talking his opinion only.
So Stevie conspired to make Nightbird sound like a Hearbreakers song so 40 years later she could fire Lindsey and hire Mike as the replacement.
You lost me on Nightbird sounding like the heartbreakers.

I know! A lot of people just read the title and don't even click on the thread, much less watch the video. People are lazy, lol. So I first read about it on Facebook, presented as something that insiders believed might happen, and I came here to verify the source and was like "ugh."

Plus this particular guy annoys me because he ACTS like he's in the know, but doesn't even get his facts straight, and he steals stuff from message boards without giving credit (you can bet he's visited this one to see where his traffic is coming from). After watching a few vids where he would make downright false statements (Example: Lindsey always wanted to play it safe with setlists and only play the hits), I decided I wouldn't give him any more views.

The guy has a hunch, that's good enough for me.

Is this the same guy that slept with Ms. Nicks???

This guy is a hack.

Bet he's an Auburn fan.

So is Rusty.

I know this is all speculation but I think she really did always want her own 'people' in the FM world. It started way back too, with all the stories about how she'd give all her different girlfriends these random 'jobs' just as a way to bring them on tour with her and they pretty quickly became like an entourage surrounding her constantly And then she successfully got Lori and Sharon to officially be part of their touring band as backup singers. Then there was the whole Sheryl Crow fiasco from when Stevie was pretty tight friends with her. I doubt that prior to Tom's death, she ever thought about bringing Mike into FM but after Tom passed I'm sure she would've jumped at any opportunity to have someone like Mike (who was her friend/collaborator for years as well as a strong connection to Tom) close to her.

I've said before, both Lindsey and Stevie have had more than a few instances of being insufferable. I have wondered over the past several months if Stevie was pushing to bring Mike into the touring band as a second guitarist way before Lindsey was fired and that is what really set this whole fiasco into motion. That seems like the kind of totally impulsive thing Stevie Nicks would do following the death of Tom Petty, and I can see Lindsey laughing and telling her and everyone else that it's a crazy idea that will never happen, just like the Sheryl Crow thing. I can hear her now saying to everyone else, "Mike is a fantastic guitarist and songwriter and he is too good not to be in a great band." Mark my word, she will say those exact words in an interview within the next year. I love so much of the music Lindsey and Stevie managed to make together, but they both annoy me to no end.

It's funny and I agree with you, you can totally imagine her saying this.
She wanted Mike in the band no matter what....so if she wanted him there, then she had to ensure LB was kicked out

I don't know whether it was "no matter what," but she's always been so close to Mike that her wanting him to join seems totally understandable. I can't believe that she intended to oust Lindsey. It seems more reasonable to assume that she wanted to add Mike in part to provide personal support, to balance out the serious-minded, sometimes abrasive Lindsey. When you have to spend time with someone you annoys you or overwhelms you, you tend to want an advocate by your side. It's like going to see a doctor—bring a family member or a friend so that you won't get swamped by a demanding personality telling you what to do.

What doesn't seem quite so understandable

• Why didn't she just bring Mike into her solo fold? Stevie Nicks works as often as (if not more than) Fleetwood Mac. Alternatively, Stevie could have asked Mike to join her full time in Stevie Nicks, and then quit Fleetwood Mac.
• Why didn't she also push to bring in Benmont? She's as close to Benmont as she is to Mike (which is to say very close musically and personally)?

I don't know if that was always her plan. I think once Tom died and after seeing how bands like Eagles and HB could go on without their main members she decided it was time to bring her people in and kick Lindsey out.

Perhaps that was a little bit too severe, saying she wanted Mike in no matter what but to me it did seem so very premeditated on her part. But I agree with you exactly why not bring Mike and Benmont into her solo band....?

Yes I agree, that once Tom died she was calculating various scenarios of how to bring her people in at Lindsey's expense.

I can't see anything wrong with wanting to work with friends, and take them on the road with you.

But firing the REASON FM has stayed relevant for 43 years isn't the way to go about that.

IT'S FLEETWOOD F*CKING MAC. Let her hire her friend$ for her $olo tour$.

Using swear words and replacing 's' with '$' does not an argument make.

FM reached, in their words, an impasse. Given that they needed replacements for Lindsey if they wanted to continue activity (which we should be thankful for - FM2018 is much better than no FM at all), then hiring talented friends who they know they can with for is a reasonable thing to do.

It is Fleetwood Mac indeed. A band which has reinvented itself with new lineups throughout its 50 year history. With greater and lesser artistic and commercial success. This is just one more step in this process.

Fleetwood Mac was never about any one person. You may say that Fleetwood Mac is just about Lindsey, but clearly the band disagree with you. I'm sorry, but the band's opinion clearly and massively overrides yours.

Gee, thank$ for the Engli$h lesson, and the conde$cending, $elf righteou$ attitude. :wavey:

Perhaps if you'd actually discussed the point in a reasonable constructive manner you would have a reply more to your liking.

Perhap$ you think I'm concerned.

You were certainly concerned enough to reply. It appears to me that you are attempting to get the last word when you haven't actually yet contributed anything of substance in this exchange. Perhaps you should concentrate on the content of what you write rather than whether it was the last thing written.

Let's see if you can address a point. You claim that Lindsey is the reason why Fleetwood Mac has stayed relevant for 43 years. But, as I pointed out, the rest of the band don't necessarily think so. As an example, Lindsey's contributed arrangement and production work is often quoted as his biggest contribution to the band as the other songwriters contributed most of the hits. Now, I think that his arrangement and production work is great and that Stevie never sounds better than as when she's produced by Lindsey. E.g. I really like SYW. However, we know that Stevie doesn't like Lindsey's production. Clearly her personal evaluation of the importance of Lindsey in the band does not match yours. It's the band's choice what they do, particularly at their time of life. No-one else's.

Given that Lindsey is no longer in the band, they needed replacements. It's reasonable to work with people who are both talented and friends.

Well, given that $tevie has no interest in recording now, and that $he can't stand Lindsey, that makes his great producing skills far less valuable, now that they're officially an oldies act(no new music, just teat milking).

I firmly believe $he issued the "it's him or me" ultimatum. Mick chose his ca$h cow. Like he could ever make any other choice, being the cheap whore that he is.

That said, Lindsey's playing is THE SOUND of FM. I mean, they'll still have the bleating going for them, but his guitar style IS their sound.

This is reasonable. We know that Stevie doesn't want to work with Lindsey which is possibly one of the reasons why she didn't join in on the album that became Buckingham/McVie.

Fleetwood Mac tours have been 'play the hits' for a long time now. Even with Lindsey. That's the business they're in, as are many other bands of their era.

The new lineup may shake things up a bit, if comments about playing stuff from more eras in their career come to be. So, the result may be more fresh than the retread going-through-the-numbers we may have gotten otherwise. Not the repeated use of the word 'may' in that sentence.

Well, people can choose to believe whatever they like. What's more worth actual discussion is if people can support those beliefs with actual evidence and logical argument.

Lindsey contributed greatly to FM while he was a member. As did the other members. But, it's a band, not just one person.

Lindsey's guitar sound was an important part of FM while he was a member, as was Stevie's and Christine's voices and songwriting, and the rhythm section. Even if we're forgetting the other eras of the band and just concentrating on Rumours, there isn't just one component to their sound. It's a band, with multiple members who contribute distinctive aspects of the sound, and to songwriting and arranging too.

I consider it possible (not 'probable' or 'likely') that part of what has caused the breakdown is Lindsey believing that he 'is' FM in the way that you appear to do. But, I would want to support that with more evidence before attempting to put if forward as a credible factor. Lindsey's comments (apart from the clear comment that this was not his choice) have been frustratingly obscure. E.g. that 'factions' in the band have lost 'perspective' may show this, but to claim his comments mean that would be going ridiculously beyond what the known facts support.

BTW: Name-calling isn't a good way of encouraging people to take you seriously. Mick will clearly have been heavily involved in the decision, but we don't know exactly what role he played nor his reasons for doing so.

75% of what we ALL have here is speculation.

Spare me the preachy lectures.

Have a nice day.

The amount of speculation is far higher than 75%. The problem is that a huge majority of that speculation is presented as fact.

Speculation is fine, provided that it is clearly presented as such. And if someone wildly speculates and then uses that to start name-calling and bashing band members, well then they deserve a bit of preaching.

Many would disagree with the first bit-- better than nothing at all.

It depends on how you feel about the second bit- that they are band reinventing themselves as they've always done.

Because in the past, when new members have come in, it was explicitly for the purpose of the band making new music and going in a new direction. NOT to bring in new members who, for example, would only ever play Peter Green songs over and over. That would not have been a "new" FM it would have been a tribute band. Instead, S&L came in (or Welch etc etc) and brought their new sensibilities to the band and the band veered into a whole new direction. FM with PG is not FM with S&L.

In the current case, no one made the case "oh we brought in Mike and Neil to take us in a new direction" The statement from the band was that they had a tour booked and needed players to help them fulfill that commitment. These guys are being hired to help FM play their existing, historical hits. It's like they are session players for the road.

Now, if this goes well and they decide, hey let's make new music with Mike and Neil, then maybe it will represent a new era in the ongoing FM musical story. So far that hasn't even been said to be the intention.

Plus, if they do in fact make new music and record again etc, and the remaining members of the Rumours5 put out new stuff, why didn't they do it before LB left? LB was never a hindrance to the band putting out new material, on the contrary he ADVOCATED vociferously for it. The stick in the mud, the fly in the ointment to new music was STEVIE. NOT Lindsey.

So if they start making new music NOW, without Lindsey, and Stevie is all onboard about it, what does that tell you? She had just as much opportunity and support to do new music when LB was still there. She chose not to do it. She was adamant about not doing it. Then Lindsey is out, and suddenly she has this magical inspiration to do new music. What does that tell you? She had no desire and made no effort whatsoever to do new music with HIM. All the bs about "the music business" is revealed for what it is. It becomes very, very clear that she withheld her participation, which totally eliminated the chance for growth of the band, because of her personal feelings about him.

Furthermore, reliable sources (people around the band who for obvious reasons don't want their names put out in public-- they still have to work) have indicated that Stevie (in addition to having refused to record with the band since 2003) then gave an ultimatum in which she refused to tour again if LB was still there.

The hypocrisy of them saying "well we're a band and when everyone is on the same page except one person, we have to cut that one person loose" is beyond words. Everyone was on the same page for making a new album except Stevie-- so by their rule, she should have been cut loose. But she wasn't. In fact the record that the other 4 all did together couldn't even get released as FM because of her.

If you can't see the bias in all this behavior, it's because you don't want to. I've been a huge Stevie fan since I was 15 (back in the 70s) so I get how difficult it is to see your idol fall. Or maybe you're a new fan and don't know all the band history. But this action on her part is in line with so much of their historical dynamic. And shame on the rest of them for putting up with it. Why would they?? MONEY. So now we know business trumps all.

And BTW, of course there is speculation here-- IT IS A FAN BOARD. This is not an industry news site; it's a place for fans to come together and talk, speculate, wonder, complain, etc. Never ceases to amaze me that people don't understand wtf a fan board is or what it's for. If you want hard news, go to a hard news site FFS.

Well said ....and yes agreed MONEY trumped at the end of the day

That's your personal choice. However, there are a lot of people who would prefer some Fleetwood Mac than none. Which will be visible when we see how many tickets they sell on the tours.

Well, I would say that even just a tour is a new Fleetwood Mac. New recordings would make this a much much more significant era than just one tour. But as you say we don't know if that will happen.

While it's entirely circumstantial, Neil Finn is not known as a superb guitarist or singer. He's very good at both, but if all they wanted him for was singing and playing, there are better options. What Neil Finn is known as is a songwriter, and Mick has already sat in on Finn recording original material. I'm not saying there's enough there to start assuming that it will happen. But, if it was to happen, then Mick in choosing Finn and Campbell would have chosen very well. Much better than (e.g.) the Time lineup who were excellent players but lacked a bit in the songwriting chops area.

Also, it could possibly (not an assumption, just a possibility) that Mick would like to record another album but that he has to talk Stevie into it. Possibly over time.

The focus at the moment was the tour, not the recording. They recorded Buckingham McVie, which is a FM album in all but name.

We know that Stevie doesn't want to spend a year in a studio recording an album, and that she doesn't want Lindsey producing her music. There isn't just one reason why she didn't want to record the previous FM album. A lot of the argument here appears to be trying to prove that she's lying based on an assumption of there only being one reason why she didn't record.

If Lindsey is no longer around, then that's one factor different which may help change her mind. For her to want to record again, assuming new songs, then she'd want to write again. Oh, she's going to be on tour with Campbell who she has written with before. And it would probably have to be much less time in the studio. Oh, she's going to be on tour with Neil Finn who recorded an album in a month of Fridays. All recording streamed live on youtube (look up 'Neil Finn The Infinity Sessions'. So, there is at least the possibility that

There are such claims, but I don't consider unnamed sources reliable. In other contexts they have certainly proved to be unreliable often in the past. And, an important point is when any such ultimatum, if it happened, was given. As we know that negotiations on the tour broke down. So, unless the ultimatum happened well before the negotiations and they were not in good faith, I'm wondering what the ultimatum mean. If the ultimatum occurred after the touring discussion bust-up, then that would fit in with the descriptions of how things happened, and not be an ultimatum coming out of the blue and being the sole cause of the split.

Yes, but we're talking about now. It's not long since the album, but now we're talking about the tour. And, do we know that Stevie blocked the album being attributed to Fleetwood Mac? If so, how? Let me guess - I will be told that I should have searched for evidence further, and there'll only be speculation.

I can see the behaviour, but am not extrapolating from it like others. Yes, we know that Stevie doesn't like working with Lindsey. However, we also know that she has many times held her nose and gone out on tour with him.

If they wanted 'MONEY' they would have found some way to go out with Lindsey, as a tour with Lindsey would make more money. Unless they believe that a tour with Lindsey wouldn't happen, then them going out without Lindsey would be a very bad choice.

There seems to be a number of people here on this board who seem to want to put all the blame for the split on one side, and attribute it to evil motives such as $$$MONEY$$$. Rather than the more prosaic reasons of a band part splitting because the members didn't want to work together again, caused by internal friction. Which is a frequent occurrence in the lifetime of bands.

Yes, but there is a difference between speculation, and making conclusions. The latter is happening far too often here based on faulty logic, excessive weight being put on extreme interpretations of what has been said, etc. I have nothing against speculation. Just make sure that you know what is speculation and don't start believing it until the actual evidence, not extrapolations of it, is sufficient.

And here's an example of speculation being presented as a conclusion.

and......your point is, what, exactly?

How so?

If you choose to believe that there were tour date disagreements or conflict between SnL that couldn't be resolved you come to the point that they can not agree...so your two options are continue and tour or disband.

Now clearly everyone including Mick have solo or business endeavours that can continue with that will keep them financially afloat personally and if they are touring solo they get their tour and audience fix outside of FM.

So the choice was made to continue to tour as FM without Lindsey based on the financial benefits they would reap foremost.

As per my post above. If there are any bits you don't understand, then please ask.

Because otherwise: my point is that I have detailed where I disagree with you and given supporting arguments.

You are presenting one possibility as the only possibility. Other potential factors include: wanting to put on the best show for the audience, too many members of the band not being prepared to work with Lindsey any more due to personal friction (which could easily be Lindsey's fault as well BTW), not believing that Lindsey would actually ever tour or would be unreliable (as in 1987), and an infinite number of other possibilities.

I'm not saying that money is not a factor, clearly it is for professional musicians. But, to simply state a simple 'money trumped at the end of the day' is a woefully premature conclusion with no indications of any uncertainty. It's also attributing base motivations to one side.

Great. Good for you!

You've done your bit you've given your point of view and your reasons for it.

So have others.

Everyone will choose to believe whatever they want.

Beating people over the head will not make them suddenly agree with you. That seems to be what you want.

Engaging in reasoned debate is not 'beating them over the head'.

If you don't want to continue the discussion, then that is your choice. But, there is nothing wrong in answering people's posts with reasoned debate. And, that is what I believe that I have done.