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SteveMacD 11-24-2019 02:16 AM

Prerecords
 
Some interesting quotes from Taku shed some light on one thing that drove me crazy about Lindsey and was likely a factor in his firing.

Quote:

Many thanks to Fleetwood Mac for welcoming me back... and especially to Ms. Stevie Nicks. Back in 2000, I subbed on one corporate show for her during a tour break from Lionel Richie. Fast forward 3 years later, she remembered me and came to a Lionel Richie private show in Maui, bringing along Mick Fleetwood. Little did I know that she recommended me to Mick, and he and I meeting and talking drums backstage was the first step of my audition. 2 months later I got the call for the "Say You Will" world tour, which took me around the world for 18 months with Fleetwood Mac. I then went onto tour with Stevie as well over the years... Then last year, after a 14-year break from Fleetwood Mac (no percussion on their tours since '04), Stevie approached me at an event and said she was going to talk to Mick about having me back with the band, and to get rid of all prerecords for the next tour... and here I am, after 16 months of yet another epic tour, drumming alomgside the incomparable Mick Fleetwood. So much gratitude in my heart for yet another amazing experience.
Quote:

Steven Hibbard They used prerecord tracks in the past few tours. Lindsey had extra guitar parts, vocals and rhythm parts sampled and performed along with the band, which undoubtedly boxed in the arrangements, tempos etc. I don't think they were very popular internally... It was not only an honor to play again with such an iconic band, but also to know that what the audience heard was all being performed live and emanating from onstage. Mick's drum tech traditionally played extra tom tom parts (since those parts were recorded as overdubs), but between 2004 and 2018, he also played minor percussion parts from the albums (shaker, tambourine, etc). I ended up playing all the percussion parts again, as well as all of the tom tom parts... That is also why there has always been a side guitarist with the band, to coverall of those layered and overdubbed parts... whether that was an onstage sideman guitarist or a guitar tech playing from offstage in the post-Rumours years.

bombaysaffires 11-24-2019 03:06 AM

what it shows to me is how the inner workings of the band have been going -- Stevie deciding what she wants /what she thinks the band should do, telling Mick, and getting him to make it happen for her.

Her whole "I am NOT the boss of this band" is hilarious.

AncientQueen 11-24-2019 07:03 AM

^^^Only that her wish makes sense, every other member of the band was on board with it and it is the right thing to do for a band that works almost exclusively as a live band for decades. it also pleases the fans, who don't want to get cheated on with canned music.

Stevie probably just put into words what everyone was thinking.

button-lip 11-24-2019 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bombaysaffires (Post 1254956)
what it shows to me is how the inner workings of the band have been going -- Stevie deciding what she wants /what she thinks the band should do, telling Mick, and getting him to make it happen for her.

Her whole "I am NOT the boss of this band" is hilarious.


:laugh::laugh::laugh: Seriously…. how many times Lindsey has said to many of us during his M&G (including you and me) that "it was all Stevie"?

Next thing we know, Lori and Sharon were the reason Lindsey was fired…. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

I highly doubt Lindsey didn't want Taku on the band. Stevie herself said "she didn't want to be on the same stage with Lindsey anymore", hence she made Mick fired him. Were Taku fit in all this, I have no idea. But hey, it was fun! :wavey:

elle 11-24-2019 02:03 PM

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: so now Lindsey was fired because he would not allow to get rid of pre-recorded tracks?? right..........

seriously though, the Taku story explains his loyalty to SN and his glowing praises to the band that toured last year in his social media posts. plus, it's not like Taku has not ditched Lindsey in the past, during UTS tour when he got better gig.

SteveMacD 11-24-2019 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by button-lip (Post 1254960)
:laugh::laugh::laugh: Seriously…. how many times Lindsey has said to many of us during his M&G (including you and me) that "it was all Stevie"?

Next thing we know, Lori and Sharon were the reason Lindsey was fired…. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Yeah, it was specifically because Stevie wanted Taku on tour. :rolleyes:


Quote:

I highly doubt Lindsey didn't want Taku on the band. Stevie herself said "she didn't want to be on the same stage with Lindsey anymore", hence she made Mick fired him. Were Taku fit in all this, I have no idea. But hey, it was fun! :wavey:
If you read between the lines, like on a second grade level, it’s obvious that Lindsey’s insistence on prerecords was an issue within the band. Moreover, it suggests that the decision to oust Lindsey was made prior to MusiCares.

jmn3 11-24-2019 11:22 PM

Much as I have no use for what this band did to Lindsey, I have to admit I hate the prerecorded crap that had gotten well over the top in recent years. It was one of the main reasons I had no use in going to see Buckingham McVie also.

They lost any sense of spontaneity and things became way too programmed.

elle 11-25-2019 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveMacD (Post 1254967)
If you read between the lines, like on a second grade level, it’s obvious that Lindsey’s insistence on prerecords was an issue within the band.

if you read the actual lines (while try not to be patronizing to others!), nowhere does it say lindsey *insisted* on the pre-records. yes, he used them, and yes sometimes it's annoying. but that he insisted? and to the point - either pre-records stay or he goes? p l e a s e. :lol:

sounds like Taku's info about that came from Stevie. and we know she's all about never trashing Lindsey. :rolleyes:

and, how is now Lindsey's fault if Mick didn't want a percussionist over the years? Lindsey didn't really want backup singers in FM as far as we can tell, yet they were always there.

elle 11-25-2019 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmn3 (Post 1254968)
Much as I have no use for what this band did to Lindsey, I have to admit I hate the prerecorded crap that had gotten well over the top in recent years. It was one of the main reasons I had no use in going to see Buckingham McVie also.

They lost any sense of spontaneity and things became way too programmed.

you def missed out if you skipped BuckVie tour!

in Neil Finn fan groups, many said how Neil was so stifled and boring in Fleetwood Mac's pre-programmed non-spontaneous shows. how he felt tied down and how they hated seeing him like that and they couldn't wait for him to go back to being his free self.

that all said, i do think that old rich bands like Fleetwood Mac who are making millions and can more than afford it should use and pay live musicians if they cannot perform their music on their own anymore, and not having anything pre-programmed. so if they did this tour, i'm really glad. at least something positive!

Jondalar 11-25-2019 12:26 AM

The least talented people are in charge of the band.

button-lip 11-25-2019 06:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jondalar (Post 1254971)
The least talented people are in charge of the band.

Well, that if you read between the lines. Like, on a first grade level. :D

jbrownsjr 11-25-2019 08:29 AM

If you read between the lines, it also says that Stevie controls Mick.

button-lip 11-25-2019 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbrownsjr (Post 1254975)
If you read between the lines, it also says that Stevie controls Mick.

Somehow we choose not to read between those lines.

SteveMacD 11-25-2019 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbrownsjr (Post 1254975)
If you read between the lines, it also says that Stevie controls Mick.

No. MONEY controls Mick, and Stevie is the golden goose.

UnwindedDreams 11-25-2019 10:21 PM

Just for fun, I'm going to say that the event Taku mentioned he was approached by SN at in 2018 was MusiCares Person of the Year event. He was on stage playing in the tribute performances before Fleetwood Mac did their mini-set. I think Don Was and Kenny Aronoff may've also been in the tribute performances band too.

bombaysaffires 11-26-2019 04:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveMacD (Post 1254967)
Yeah, it was specifically because Stevie wanted Taku on tour. :rolleyes:




If you read between the lines, like on a second grade level, it’s obvious that Lindsey’s insistence on prerecords was an issue within the band. Moreover, it suggests that the decision to oust Lindsey was made prior to MusiCares.

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnwindedDreams (Post 1254983)
Just for fun, I'm going to say that the event Taku mentioned he was approached by SN at in 2018 was MusiCares Person of the Year event. He was on stage playing in the tribute performances before Fleetwood Mac did their mini-set. I think Don Was and Kenny Aronoff may've also been in the tribute performances band too.

but it was all due to the smirk....just a spontaneous decision. You know, before it was about not wanting to tour....:distress:

jbrownsjr 11-26-2019 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveMacD (Post 1254982)
No. MONEY controls Mick, and Stevie is the golden goose.

Money = $tevie therefore, $tevie Controls Mick.

:thumbsup:

David 11-26-2019 02:19 PM

The prerecorded approach is impossible to generalize about. Sometimes it actually works best, I would imagine. If the audio doesn’t sound exactly like a studio track, it’s okay. In that case, there isn’t much difference between prerecorded audio and a stage full of backup guys, especially if the backup guys are playing prerecorded audio (because nobody is really looking at them very closely).

There have been times in the last twenty years when I would have preferred listening to a prerecorded Stevie or Lindsey lead vocal instead of a live one.

bombaysaffires 11-26-2019 03:53 PM

and just for clarification, when we say 'backup players are playing prerecorded tracks' we are in fact saying that the backup players are miming to the back up recordings....? Which seems doubly redundant. If they're there, and they're actually accomplished musicians, why not just let them play?
Is the insinuation that Lindsey was so controlling of the sound that he would allow no margin for deviation and so insisted on backup tracks?
I mean I get using recorded tracks to an extent on his solo tours, because there's so much complexity on those recordings, even just for example that he does umpteen different vocal layers that no one could reproduce live without hauling 15 singers on tour.. And he did on his first solo tour try to recreate everything live which required taking like 8 guitarists on the road with him, which had to have cost a small fortune. So yeah, in that case it makes way more sense to use tracks. That said he did do a whole tour with just himself and little to no recorded tracks:shrug:

Makes you wonder if when it came to FM the skills of the band members was becoming so unreliable over the course of a tour or just so eroded altogether that they'd embarrass themselves if they didn't use tracks. sorry, this is rambling but it's one of those topics where we can only speculate what was in people's heads.

Storms123 11-27-2019 08:21 AM

Christine really can't/doesn't play anymore. I won't discuss her inability to carry a tune here.
Before the LB debacle, Brett Tuggle would have been there "backing" her up on keys and playing guitar (as he had been on tours before she came back) With Brett going with LB, Stevie brought in her keys player. There has always been another drummer behind the stage (with or without Taku) And don't forget, Stevie has been "helping" with percussion for years with those magnificent tambo skills--LOL.
Point being, the band, as do many bands, bring in backing musicians for support. Taku played on a tour while LB was still in the band.
Let's just be grateful they aren't lip synching like other musicians have taken too.

cbBen 11-27-2019 09:30 AM

As I've long said, they decided to fire Lindsey before MusiCares but couldn't pull that trigger until after the event.

So by the time Lindsey backed off his demands–to delay FM with a tour supporting his compilation of solo material, or to intersperse solo shows on FM off days–the decision to fire him had already been finalized.

That's why the conflicting narratives ("we reached an impasse" vs. "I acquiesced to their demands and they fired me anyway") are each accurate in the minds of the respective parties.

button-lip 11-27-2019 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbBen (Post 1254994)
As I've long said, they decided to fire Lindsey before MusiCares but couldn't pull that trigger until after the event.

So by the time Lindsey backed off his demands–to delay FM with a tour supporting his compilation of solo material, or to intersperse solo shows on FM off days–the decision to fire him had already been finalized.

That's why the conflicting narratives ("we reached an impasse" vs. "I acquiesced to their demands and they fired me anyway") are each accurate in the minds of the respective parties.

Nothing is inaccurate on Lindsey's mind. I'm sure he understood the decision had already been made even though he backed off his demands. I'm sure he realized this had already been planning since Classic East. But he probably thought that after, what? 43 years of work , they could, maybe, I don't know, made an exception? Change their minds? Pardon him for whatever he may have done? :shrug:

Because truth is we still don't know what was exactly that he did that was soooooo terrible that they couldn't change their minds, no matter what.

There's no misunderstanding in what they did in any minds.

BigAl84 11-28-2019 09:34 AM

I just listened to a video of you make loving fun from the tail end of this tour and it was so slow and lagging that I didn’t even recognize the song at first. It’s no wonder they needed something to keep the engine running.

Also, I’m wondering if any pre recorded harmonies were a way to get around stevies most likely insistence to add her off key harmonies to the mix. Lindsey isn’t often perfect by any means but good lord her harmonies during The Chain on this last tour...yikes.

BigAl84 11-28-2019 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by button-lip (Post 1255002)
Nothing is inaccurate on Lindsey's mind. I'm sure he understood the decision had already been made even though he backed off his demands. I'm sure he realized this had already been planning since Classic East. But he probably thought that after, what? 43 years of work , they could, maybe, I don't know, made an exception? Change their minds? Pardon him for whatever he may have done? :shrug:

Because truth is we still don't know what was exactly that he did that was soooooo terrible that they couldn't change their minds, no matter what.

There's no misunderstanding in what they did in any minds.

Lindsey made the mistake of loving them like family instead of realizing what pieces of sh*t they really were under it all.

button-lip 11-28-2019 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigAl84 (Post 1255015)
Lindsey made the mistake of loving them like family instead of realizing what pieces of sh*t they really were under it all.

Ditto! I really, really, really hope he doesn't fall into their trap anymore.

michelej1 11-29-2019 03:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elle (Post 1254962)
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: so now Lindsey was fired because he would not allow to get rid of pre-recorded tracks?? right..........

seriously though, the Taku story explains his loyalty to SN and his glowing praises to the band that toured last year in his social media posts. plus, it's not like Taku has not ditched Lindsey in the past, during UTS tour when he got better gig.

Lindsey was fired because his music sensibilities are not as authentic as the others? That makes sense.

Was Lindsey also the one who insisted that Mick wear the drum vest and grunt to prerecorded vocals?

Man, he ruined that band.

jbrownsjr 12-04-2019 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by michelej1 (Post 1255028)
Lindsey was fired because his music sensibilities are not as authentic as the others? That makes sense.

Was Lindsey also the one who insisted that Mick wear the drum vest and grunt to prerecorded vocals?

Man, he ruined that band.

The Tango VHS/DVD video in San Fran is hilarious.

michelej1 12-08-2019 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbrownsjr (Post 1255123)
The Tango VHS/DVD video in San Fran is hilarious.

Remember when Lindsey left in 1987 and Chris said that having all those musicians on stage for the tour, starting with Billy, was just them following what Lindsey had envisioned if he had stayed? The man forced them to hire loads of musicians for a more live sound and then, years later, he forced them to use pre-recorded tracks. He was just trouble.

secondhandchain 12-08-2019 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by michelej1 (Post 1255172)
Remember when Lindsey left in 1987 and Chris said that having all those musicians on stage for the tour, starting with Billy, was just them following what Lindsey had envisioned if he had stayed? The man forced them to hire loads of musicians for a more live sound and then, years later, he forced them to use pre-recorded tracks. He was just trouble.

That Tango video is the most embarrassing thing the band has EVER DONE. When Lindsey left what did tambourine witch do? She made them do extreme closeups of her that were the most cringe worthy thing I have ever seen. I was a HUGE fan of hers then and I could not watch it. Got douche chills and had to turn off the video and threw it right in the trash where it belonged. YIKES

jbrownsjr 12-09-2019 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by secondhandchain (Post 1255179)
That Tango video is the most embarrassing thing the band has EVER DONE. When Lindsey left what did tambourine witch do? She made them do extreme closeups of her that were the most cringe worthy thing I have ever seen. I was a HUGE fan of hers then and I could not watch it. Got douche chills and had to turn off the video and threw it right in the trash where it belonged. YIKES

I have to agree, the direction and production of the Video is an absolute fail.

vivfox 12-09-2019 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by secondhandchain (Post 1255179)
That Tango video is the most embarrassing thing the band has EVER DONE. When Lindsey left what did tambourine witch do? She made them do extreme closeups of her that were the most cringe worthy thing I have ever seen. I was a HUGE fan of hers then and I could not watch it. Got douche chills and had to turn off the video and threw it right in the trash where it belonged. YIKES

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbrownsjr (Post 1255180)
I have to agree, the direction and production of the Video is an absolute fail.

Yes I have to agree. Also the Stevie Nicks Red Rocks Live video was the exact same hatchet job. Both of those videos should have never seen the light of day. I remember an article I had cut out from a magazine where the editors of one of those video's described how tough it was to piece the video together with all the removals and added in parts. He said it was excruciating to watch.

David 12-09-2019 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vivfox (Post 1255183)
Yes I have to agree. Also the Stevie Nicks Red Rocks Live video was the exact same hatchet job. Both of those videos should have never seen the light of day. I remember an article I had cut out from a magazine where the editors of one of those video's described how tough it was to piece the video together with all the removals and added in parts. He said it was excruciating to watch.

Those videos were shockers. They were the low point of craftsmanship from Fleetwood Mac, a band that had come to be known for its craftsmanship and conscientiousness. One of the most amazing satisfactions that The Dance gave us—apart from the joy of seeing the five together and working—was the return of their fabled craftsmanship. The care and concern for detail was apparent in every part of the reunion (that ability to make the worked-out sound fresh and almost ad hoc, which Rumours also had).

Weren’t those two Callner concert videos actually called “Cream Cheese Productions”? The irony gods couldn’t have been laughing any louder.


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