Danny Kirwan Discussion
 

Ok so this forum is pretty dead at the best of times. You can get 50 threads a day started over at the twirling gypsy forum (oh sorry Rumours Forum) but anything pre or post Rumours seems to be pretty quiet.

So, bored as I am and with a couple of glasses of wine (or so) inside of me I thought I'd start listening to some Danny Kirwan stuff and then logically followed that through with a starting a thread on here. I apologise in advance if I don't make enough sense!

We all know that Danny was a brilliant, under-rated guitarist who sadly has been overshadowed by Peter.

Four FM albums (more if you include Pious Bird of Good Omen or English Rose), two Tramp albums and three solo albums were all we got from Danny. Oh, well that and a few contributions to solo albums by Jeremy, Christine and bits and pieces of miscellaneous stuff.

For one so young and brilliant we have so little to look back on of his work. We have had comebacks by Peter, Jeremy, Dave W and Bob Weston yet we will probably never see a comeback by Danny, we will never again hear a new song from him.

What, therefore, is your favourite Danny song, what do you consider his best period, etc.

For me, it will always be the early stuff that I like the best, Purple Dancer, Dragonfly, Coming Your Way and Although The Sun Is Shining and Trinity being my favourites.

I know so many people like his Bare Trees/Future Games work, but for me, nothing has surpassed his earlier work.

What about the rest of you?

I also like Trinity and Jewel Eyed Judy, but I guess I'm one of those who prefer his work on Future Games/Bare Trees.

Future Games/Bare Trees, for me, is the peak. I think his later solo work runs from interesting to gorgeous, but Future Games/Bare Trees is all sublime.

My absolute favorite Kirwan track is "Dust" -- rhythmically pulls you in like a slipstream, sonically transporting and lush, thematically moving. And his voice. wow. It's also my favorite non-Stevie, -Lindsey, or -Christine Mac track.

I liked his contributions to the Blues Jam At Chess album..."Like It This Way", "World In A Tangle", etc.

Other than "When You Say", he didn't have any "stinkers". He may have had some limitations lyrically at times, but overall, I really liked his stuff.

Ones that "rise to the top" that I like most (in no order):

Jigsaw Puzzle Blues
One Sunny Day
My Dream
World In Harmony
Something Inside Of Me
Dragonfly
Purple Dancer
Station Man
Tell Me All The Things You Do
Sands Of Time
Woman Of 1000 Years
Child Of Mine
Sunny Side Of Heaven


Not too thrilled with the (over)use of the synth on his Midnight In San Juan album, those parts could've/should've been played on electric guitar by Danny, IMHO...would've made the songs a whole lot more listenable. From my first listen back when it came out (in the AGE of "synths") to now, that synth sound just grates on my nerves and ruins the great songs. That said, that album is actually my favorite of his three "solo" albums.

[QUOTE=TrueFaith77;847676]Future Games/Bare Trees, for me, is the peak. I think his later solo work runs from interesting to gorgeous, but Future Games/Bare Trees is all sublime. My absolute favorite Kirwan track is "Dust" -- rhythmically pulls you in like a slipstream, sonically transporting and lush, thematically moving.

I agree! I went back to listen to some of Danny's songs and I think "Dust" is the best. "Sands of Time" from Future Games is also a great one! I can't say much about solo albums. I only have Second Chapter.

Correct me if I'm wrong but these are generally considered out of print?

http://rapidshare.com/files/15087912...re_Big_Boy.rar

http://rapidshare.com/files/15087912...n_San_Juan.rar

One of Kirwan's best songs was done early in Fleetwood Mac, "Without You". It used to be on the U.K. release of "Then Play On". In the states it was released on "English Rose", and later on "The Original Fleetwood Mac" remastered CD.

That song may contain Kirwan's most passionate guitar solo. He was doing an excellent "Love That Burns" imitation of Peter Green. I like all the ones chiliD mentioned, but this song deserves a mention.

I'm also a fly to flypaper when it comes to "Sunny Side of Heaven". You can't teach that talent, and it's why Green, and Kirwan would've been extremely proficient, and successful together had it not been for outside distractions, and problems. Only a handful of bands ever had that top notch quality songwriting talent from two members.

my favorites
 

my two top favorites from danny are :
Dragonfly
Although The Sun Is Shining

doodyhead

I love his stuff on Bare Trees. Yes, "Dust" is wonderful. I love "Child of Mine", which sounds like 3 songs in one, but it works. Not a big fan of the stuff he did while Green was in the band. Most of Kirwan's songs have minimal lyrics, but who said that lyrics are important in pop music? Fleetwood Mac lyrics mostly suck anyway :)

Got another one to throw into the mix - Early Morning Come from the Live At BBC album. Quite a stripped down song, you can just imagine Danny sitting there with his guitar recording it. Almost doesn't sound like Fleetwood Mac.

I have to give some love to Woman of a 1000 Years. It is so beautiful and moving it's astonishing. And it's one of the great first songs in record history because it completely sets the mood for the rest of the album and invites you into its mysteries. Its sense of longing is so huge and spiritual and profound -- it's truly mythic and connects all incarnations of the Mac. Stevie Nicks might even be the band's answer to its call.

I enjoy every single one of Danny's songs. I even like "WhenYou Say." I can understand why it might not be everyone's favorite but I like the way the "la la la" sections sound. The vocals sound like the lower notes of a string instrument being played by someone in a somber mood, with rich texture and harmony.

Danny is my third favorite FM singer/songwriter, after Christine and Bob.

Is there a handy list anywhere of all the songs Danny did while in the band? I have occasionally thought of burning a CD of all his songs for when I'm in a Danny mood, and I'd hate to miss any. (I've done the same for Chris' and Bob's songs.)

It's only in relatively recent times that I heard "Purple Dancer" for the first time, and wow what a great song that is.

:nod:

I like every single song he recorded, but I'd agree that his peak was probably '71-'72. "Hello There Big Boy" might be my least favourite album, but the reasons for its shortcomings are pretty clear. That said, "Spaceman" and "Caroline" are awesome.

I sometimes wonder what the "Second Chapter" songs would have been like if Danny had stayed with Fleetwood Mac. The follow-up to "Bare Trees" might well have included songs like "Cascades" and "Silver Streams", as they were written around the time he left, or soon afterwards.

Having just seen the above post, here's a handy list of the songs he either wrote, co-wrote or sang on while with Fleetwood Mac :) If I've forgotten any, I'm sure ChiliD or someone equally switched-on can fill in the gaps.

ALTHOUGH THE SUN IS SHINING - Then Play On
BARE TREES - Bare Trees
BLUES WITH A FEELING - Live at the BBC
CHILD OF MINE - Bare Trees
COMING YOUR WAY - Then Play On
DANNY’S CHANT - Bare Trees
DOWN AT THE CROWN - Madison Blues Demo
DRAGONFLY - Single
DUST - Bare Trees
EARL GRAY - Kiln House
EARLY MORNING COME - Live at the BBC
ENCORE JAM - Live in Boston
FAREWELL - Vaudeville Years (demo of Earl Gray)
JEWEL EYED JUDY - Kiln House
JIGSAW PUZZLE BLUES - B-side
LIKE CRYING - Then Play On
LIKE IT THIS WAY - Blues Jam at Chess etc
LOVE IT SEEMS - Vaudeville Years
LOVING KIND - Live in Boston etc
MIND OF MY OWN - Show-Biz Blues
MY DREAM - Then Play On
OCTOBER JAM 1 & 2 - Vaudeville Years jams
ONE-SIDED LOVE - Live bootlegs
ONE SUNNY DAY - Then Play On / English Rose
ON WE JAM - Live in Boston
ONLY YOU - Live at the BBC
OPEN THE DOOR - Madison Blues (live)
SANDS OF TIME - Future Games
SOMETHING INSIDE OF ME - English Rose
SOMETIMES - Future Games
STATION MAN - Kiln House
SUNNY SIDE OF HEAVEN - Bare Trees
TALK WITH YOU - Blues Jam at Chess etc
TELL ME ALL THE THINGS YOU DO - Kiln House
TELL ME FROM THE START - Vaudeville Years
THE MADGE SESSIONS 1 & 2 - Vaudeville Years jams
THE PURPLE DANCER - B-side of Dragonfly
TRINITY - Bare Trees outtake / 25 Years- The Chain box set
WHAT A SHAME - Future Games
WHEN I SEE MY BABY - Live at the BBC
WHEN YOU SAY - Then Play On
WITHOUT YOU - English Rose / Then Play On
WOMAN OF 1000 YEARS - Future Games
WORLD IN HARMONY - B-side etc
WORLD’S IN A TANGLE - Blues Jam at Chess

This doesn't include of course all the songs written by others where Danny is soloing - I love his work on Christine's "Show Me a Smile" for instance, "Homeward Bound", "Spare Me a Little" etc.

Thanks for the links. Yes, I do think both are considered out of print. I bought Second Chapter in the '90s at a used record store.

Well the only one I can think of is "Sometimes" from Future Games which I would think is just a typing error of omission on your part. He was also given writing credit on Encore Jam and On We Jam from the Live In Boston albums.

The only one I don't recognise/have from the above list is "One-Sided Love" so shall have to try and find it ;) There are probably a few other bootlegs floating around too I would imagine?

^^^

Ooops, thanks for that - I knew I'd forget at least one. I've added those three to the list to make it complete-r :)

One-Sided Love is on the "Roughage" bootleg, which somone might post here if they're able to. It's a slow one, a typical Danny number which reminds me a little of "Without You". Not as good though.

I agree, when the album came out I believed it was PG taking that solo, it was sooo good. Several years later a friend noted the Kirwan vibrato and then I understood it was DK playing. The only live version I know of is from The Golden Circle, Stockholm, late 1968, a killer version which clocks in at 6:16 with a much more aggressive solo than on the album.

Seek out "Fleetwood Mac Live in Amsterdam 1969".

Just went and ripped One-Sided Love off of a YouTube video so am listening to it as I write. :)

Yeah naughty I know but...

Here are (among others) two versions of One Sided Love:
http://rapidshare.com/files/29426332...28_Holland.zip

The Den Haag version, played a few hours earlier, was better IMO :wavey:

I think "When You Say" is beautiful, ...

/z

Brilliant Wouter thank you :)

When I first heard "When You Say" I cringed, but it later grew on me. It has a Brian Wilson vibe. Kirwan's songwriting around this time involved playing the guitar melody to match the vocal notes of a song. It's a simple technique, yet very effective. By Bare Trees his songwriting had grown leaps and bounds. Yet those early songs (especially his blues/rock contributions) should not be ignored. He was only 18 when he joined the band, and penned these songs, unbelievable. I have to keep reminding myself of that fact.

Jimmy McCulloch was 16 when he joined Thunderclap Newman, and he had great guitar chops just like Danny. I find the two guitarists led similar paths, since Danny had a total mental breakdown. In Jimmy's case he later joined Paul McCartney's Wings, and died of a heroin overdose in 1979.

There was a rumor that Mick Jagger wanted Danny Kirwan to replace Brian Jones. I think if Danny was the Stones replacement guitarist instead of Mick Taylor, he too would've died over thirty years ago.

Well this is a discovery for me. I'm not sure if the Den Haag version of "One Sided Love" is better, but Freddie King's "San Ho Zay"!?!? That's a pure blues rhythm lockdown, Fleetwood and McVie are Al Jackson Jr., and Donald Duck Dunn! I wish Peter's guitar was as loud as Danny's, because I could tell he was ripping a monster solo. Are there better sounding boots of this song available?



Then there's "Blue Suede Shoes". If this version was performed in the states, the entire band would've been deported within 24 hours. Rap artists were arrested over much less twenty years ago. Jeremy Spencer, you were a true trailblazer! :lol:

Actually I only heard this song last night for the first time, but it made me think of what Mick said in his book about Harold the dildo (I think that was its name?) and how Jeremy used to stick it out of his fly when on stage. I could almost imagine him strutting around the stage with it and waving it at the crowd during that song.

I love so much of Kirwan's FM work.

It's tough to say which two or three songs I like best because he developed dramatically in the four years with the band. I'll list my favorites by periods:

1968-69:

Something Inside of Me
Like It This Way
Without You

1969-70:

Only You (at BBC live)
When I See My Baby (at BBC Live)
Station Man
Tell Me...

1971-72:
Dragonfly
Sometimes
Trinity (still don't know why this wasn't included on Bare Trees!)
Dust

You're right, Trinity is such a great DK song, I don't know why it never saw release until the box set

Ok, so I thought I'd finally get around to saying this...

What is everyone's obsession with Dust and Woman of 1000 years? I can not tolerate those songs (in fact I can't really tolerate the Bare Trees or Future Games albums at all and never play them). I don't think I've listened to Bare Trees since before I met my wife (which is 11 years ago) and the only redeeming feature of Future Games is Bob's "Lay it All Down"

Give me "Hello There Big Boy" over these songs any day...

I think you prefer the bluesier or heavier tracks. Nothing wrong with that.

I too love those 2 songs. They are more laid back and melodic than his earlier bluesy tunes. Also very mature songs to be written by one so young. Although we do have to remember than Danny didn't write the lyrics for Dust, but its still a beautiful tune.

Never heard that before. It could've happened I guess. He was the right age and had plenty of ability. Only thing is he wouldn't have good a look-in when it came to writing songs. And chances are, just like with Mick Taylor, if he did contribute to songs in the studio he wouldn't have received any credit.

Nice...........i'll download those this evening.

I got the reissue of Second Chapter last year. Not spectacular and I dont expect these two to be classics, but as a fan of Danny's work i'd really like to hear them to get a fuller picture of his whole career. :nod:

Its very good and maybe would've sat better on the album than 'Danny's Chant.'

Just in case they haven't been listed before, here's the Rupert Brooke's poem 'Dust' from where Danny obtained the lyric's:


Dust
by Rupert Brooke (1887-1915)
When the white flame in us is gone,
And we that lost the world's delight
Stiffen in darkness, left alone
To crumble in our separate night;

When your swift hair is quiet in death,
And through the lips corruption thrust
Has stilled the labour of my breath---
When we are dust, when we are dust!---
Not dead, not undesirous yet,
Still sentient, still unsatisfied,
We'll ride the air, and shine, and flit,
Around the places where we died,

And dance as dust before the sun,
And light of foot, and unconfined,
Hurry from road to road, and run
About the errands of the wind.

And every mote, on earth or air,
Will speed and gleam, down later days,
And like a secret pilgrim fare
By eager and invisible ways,

Nor ever rest, nor ever lie,
Till, beyond thinking, out of view,
One mote of all the dust that's I
Shall meet one atom that was you.

Then in some garden hushed from wind,
Warm in a sunset's afterglow,
The lovers in the flowers will find
A sweet and strange unquiet grow

Upon the peace; and, past desiring,
So high a beauty in the air,
And such a light, and such a quiring,
And such a radiant ecstasy there,

They'll know not if it's fire, or dew,
Or out of earth, or in the height,
Singing, or flame, or scent, or hue,
Or two that pass, in light, to light,

Out of the garden, higher, higher. . . .
But in that instant they shall learn
The shattering ecstasy of our fire,
And the weak passionless hearts will burn

And faint in that amazing glow,
Until the darkness close above;
And they will know---poor fools, they'll know!---
One moment, what it is to love.

From the sleevenotes to Ram Jam City:

"As happenstance would have it, a couple of years after Danny Kirwan left Fleetwood Mac, Mick Taylor quit the Rolling Stones. By this time Kirwan happily was away from the limelight, and busily putting together material for his debut solo album, Second Chapter. One day his wife at the time, Clare, answered the phone at their Essex home. It was the Rolling Stones office. Could they speak to Danny.

As fate would have it, he was up in London for the day. Clare gave them another contact number but the guitarist wasn't there either.

They didn't ring again..."

Actually Midnight in San Juan is quite good (can't say they same for Hello There Big Boy)

Well, well, well. Although to be fair, the Stones did audition many guitarists before deciding on Ron Wood, but being English he would've certainly been near the top of the list. Just depends on if he'd actually want to step back into the limelight to that extent??

Not that Danny has actually had much of a life in the past thirty years...

I had always thought that Danny's problems were caused solely by alcohol and him being uncomfortable in the spotlight.................but this thread prompted me to go back and look up a few writings and they mention that Danny was with Peter Green in Munich when they took LSD. That would explain things better. Cant see why I didnt make that connection before. Maybe because most reviews of the Munich Incident concentrate on the affect it had on Peter, not Danny.

Its just a shame that Danny isnt playing at all. Good to see that Peter and Jeremy are still playing though.

I like all three solo albums, but Hello There Big Boy is my favorite.