VOTE (until Aug. 27): DVD FORMAT
 

THE VOTE

This first vote is to determine the format for what we’d like on the DVD release. Select just one option. An example of each format option appears below. This vote will remain open until Monday, August 27. After Monday, the option receiving the most votes will be selected. Future discussions and votes will be held to determine the exact content.

Each of these options is based upon what appears to exist in the Warner Brother’s vault. All of these will be timed to include between 90 and 120 minutes of content. We don’t have guarantees yet on what exactly we will have access to, so revisions to our wish lists may be required in the future based on the availability of the material.

If we can reach the goal of 10,000 signatures, this may result in securing the release of additional material in the future.

OPTION DESCRIPTIONS

Option 1 – Best Of 1 Compilation. The “Best Of” compilation would consist of most or all of the band’s music videos plus a variety of “favorite” live performances through the years. The format would be something like the following with performances and videos presented chronologically. This does not have to be the final running order, but is meant as an example of what this sort of compilation would consist of:

1. Why (Capital Center ‘75 Concert) ~3:45
2. Station Man (Capital Center ’75 Concert) ~4:00
3. Rhiannon (Rosebud) 6:52
4. I’m So Afraid (Rosebud) 5:02
5. Say You Love Me (Rosebud) 3:55
6. World Turning (Midnight Special) ~6:00?
7. Go Your Own Way (Rosebud) 3:32
8. Dreams (Paris Promo) 4:19
9. You Make Loving Fun (Japan) 3:45
10. The Chain (Mirage Concert) 5:45
11. Tusk (video) 3:30
12. Sara (Tusk Doc) 4:08
13. Not That Funny (Tusk Doc) 2:10
14. Sisters of the Moon (Mirage) 7:45
15. Hold Me (video) 3:57
16. Gypsy (video) 4:12
17. Eyes of the World (Mirage) 3:45
18. Little Lies (video) 3:34
19. Seven Wonders (video) 3:38
20. Big Love (video) 3:57
21. Everywhere (video) 3:41
22. As Long As You Follow (video) 4:07
23. Save Me (video) 4:14
24. Skies the Limit (video) 3:42
25. Paper Doll (video) 3:56
26. Love Shines (video) 4:10
27. Silver Springs (Dance) 5:45
28. Bleed to Love Her (Dance) 3:14
29. Landslide (Dance) 3:50
30. Don’t Stop (The Brits) ~4:00

McVie: 12 songs
Nicks: 9 songs
Buckingham: 10 songs (incl. Station Man as “lead” singer)
------------------------

Option 2 - Best Of 2 Compilation. A compilation which includes all of the ‘concept’ videos plus a variety of ‘rare’ or ‘lesser known’ performances. The format would be something like the following. This does not have to be the final running order, but is meant as an example of what this sort of compilation would consist of:

1. Tusk (vid)
2. Hold me (vid)
3. Gypsy (vid)
4. Big love (vid)
5. Seven wonders (vid)
6. Little lies (vid)
7. Everywhere (vid)
8. Family man (vid) (still under investigation)
9. As long as you follow (vid)
10. Save me (vid)
11. Skies the limit (vid)
12. In the back of my mind (vid)
13. Paper doll (vid)
14. Love shines (vid)
15. Oh well (from the first "video comp reel" on the Warners vault list)
16. World turning (Midnight special)
17. Isn't it midnight (Video comp reel)
18. Rhiannon (Midnight special)
19. You make loving fun (Rosebud)
20. I'm so afraid (Rosebud)
21. Dreams (Paris promo)
22. Sara ("4:00" is what it's listed as on the vault list)
23. Songbird (3 reels)
24. Oh Diane (from the story of (billed on the list as The FM story")
25. The Chain (3 reels)
26. Say you love me (Rosebud)
27. Gold dust woman (3 reels)
28. Go your own way (Brit awards)
29. Don't stop (Brit awards)

McVie: 13 songs (incl. World Turning)
Nicks: 7 songs
Buckingham: 8 songs (depending upon the availability of the “Family Man” video)
Green: 1 song
Burnette: 1 song
-------------------------

Option 3 - Live Concert(s). This option would consist of a few live concerts in their entirety (IF we can find out when they were filmed, what they contain, how long they are, etc...). This option is perhaps the hardest to predict because of the generic names and lack of description given to what purports to be “concert” footage on the Warner Brother’s vault list. For example:

Fleetwood Mac Live
Fleetwood Mac Concert/The Company
Fleetwood Mac On Tour
-------------------------

Option 4 – Documentary & Videos. This option would consist of a documentary from the vaults, plus all of the music videos if time permits.

Some of the Documentaries include:
Disney’s Going Home (1993)
Fleetwood Mac at 21 (1990 or so?)
The Fleetwood Mac Story (date ?)

(Note: We’ve gotten some indication from Ken that the chances of getting the Rosebud documentary released in its entirety at this point aren’t too good.)
-------------------------

Option 5 - Documentary & Live Performances. This option would consist of a documentary from the vaults plus some live performances if time permits.

-------------------------

Well...
 

I voted for "The Best Of"...BUT, I DO think that the Disney "Going Home" documentary should be released at some point. Its the only COMPREHENSIVE and ACCURATE history of the band that exists to my knowledge. (the VH-1 "Behind The Music" is WORTHLESS...discounts any incarnation beyond the 1975-87 era...even disses THEIR post-Tusk accomplishments)

FYI
 

On Aug. 24, the following modifications were made to the poll currently up for a vote:

The titles of the first two options in this poll have been modified at the request of a participant.

The title of Option 1 has been changed from "Best Of" to "Best Of 1." The title of Option 2 has been changed from "Alternate" to "Best of 2." There has been no change made to the content of the lists. The only changes made are to the titles of those two options.

Videos or Documentaries on DVD or VHS
 

:)
I would like to see the Best of 1 released
and I too would like to see the Disney
program released too even if its by itself.
I thought it was a great documentary. I re
corded it when it came out but have since
lost it! :(

Um... IMO, I kind of find it hard to believe that people wouldn't be miffed over buying a DVD with excerpts from The Dance (best of comp #1), which even most casual fans would probably already have.

~Brian

I agree with Brian, I wouldn't want to buy a DVD with anyting from the Dance because it already so easily accesable, I like list 1 better than 2 but would rather that the Dance vids were replaced with something else, maybe some TV Ads or other promo footage. I think one definite inclusion should be all of the Music Videos.

Nick.

I voted for Best of 1, but I agree with the last 2 posts. I would think most who have signed the petition probably already have the Dance on video or DVD. Maybe something not easily available like something from Japan or Tusk, maybe even Mirage. I'll still be satisfied with whatever everybody decides.

Les
 

Les, just a question, given that the opinions of the last few people are similar to mine that it's not so much the songs that are included on "best of 1" that are of an objection but the "previously commercially released, factory made, already owned" versions that are included that are in question, Would it be OK if on the 28th when the voting is over if list one does get the vote, could we at least put up a vote on those Dance/Mirage/Tusk video versions to see if the majority of people do in fact want those versions to stand or if they are happy with the songs but may want other versions etc.? Maybe something like

option 1 - want same versions as per list
option 2 - don't want dance verions but do want all others
option 3 - songs are fine but different versions of all 8 in question (if possible that is, believe me, I tried to find them on the list and couldn't find different versions for "Sisters of the moon" etc. At least we could cut down on them if nothing else)
option 4 - other (please specify below)

or whatever? I realize that "The dance" is the only one that has been released on DVD but as there are many people that still deal in VHS I think it's still fair to include Mirage & Tusk into the equasion. Besides, just the same as the rules of the current vote apply, if the people were only referring to "The Dance" then they can choose "option 2" from my proposed voting idea here and whatever gets the most votes will be the content. You could add other options like "only take out Mirage stuff", "Only take out Tusk doc stuff" etc. if you want but I don't honestly think many people will vote that way. It seems it would most likely be just people want the content as it is to stand, or they don't want any of those 8 (even though I know this is probably impossible due to the limited footage available on the list but as a I say, at least those could/may be cut down on if options 2 or 3 (or 4 depending on what the "other" ideas are) win the proposed vote), or that they don't want "Dance" excepts but do want Mirage/Tusk doc ones, etc. Obviously my wording isn't too good but just so you get the general idea of what we are talking about. Would this be an acceptable vote to post on the 28th if "best of 1" is voted in?

John

John--

The quality of DVD is vastly superior to that of VHS; I think anyone who has seen them side by side would agree. I just did an analysis of a petition database dump from a few days ago and of the 1707 names in that file, 1428 of them (83.6%) requested it in DVD format. I'm sure information like this would be taken into account to decide if there even would be a VHS release. The Tusk Documentary and Mirage were never released on DVD and most people have 2nd generation or worse tapes so the quality cannot compare.

After this vote, if list #1 is selected, I'd suggest *one* more vote to get a final setlist which perhaps could contain the three Dance songs or replacements. As this is a "Best Of" it follows them through the years and the Dance concert was a huge event; if you are just watching the DVD from start to finish it makes for nice continuity.

People have been signing a petition that states 10-12 songs; I cannot imagine that anyone would be particularly upset if the final release ended up being 30 songs (instead of 10-12) which includes 3 that they already have. They are still getting 15 to 17 more songs than what they signed up for at the same price, not even counting the three from the Dance.

I'm most concerned about just getting this voting all wrapped up. It should happen ASAP! We are now 10 days or so into the petition and have only collected about 20% of the required names. Once we have an actual list we can go on an advertising blitz and try to get the rest. Some people might even be interested in handing out fliers at the SN concerts to get the word out. If we take very long to vote with multiple polls and it takes even longer to get the 10,000 names, I would think it would greatly diminish the chances of *any* release even happening.

- Marty

Marty,
Will Ken ( or someone)help us clearfiy what's exactly on the "Vaults" list?
Some of the things on there are vague due to the lack of description.

I was thinking maybe some stuff that could be swapped in for the Dance footage would include the In The Back Of My Mind video (which is oddly absent from list 1), and maybe something like Isn't It Midnight or the TV Ads from the vault list.

Also, should the videos be in chronological order? 'Cause Little Lies is listed first, and it wasn't the first of the Tango videos.

~Brian

Count me in for Best of 1. I tried to vote using the poll format, but I keep getting a "running script" error.

I agree with Marty. I already have the original Mirage VHS, but I certainly wouldn't mind having a DVD version of the Mirage songs on the list (unless they release the whole concert on DVD).

I also agree that the "Best of" compilation should contain the Dance songs, for the sake of continuity. My first Mac CD was "Fleetwood Mac's Greatest Hits." I've bought every one of their CD's since that time. In other words, shouldn't we also be thinking about future Mac fans and what they will like? As a Mac fan, I'm already hooked and will take anything that is released from the options listed above. What about the average music-lover who has never seen the Dance video or DVD? I realise that this proposal is intended for the fans, but it sure would be nice to have additional releases of material from the vault. We can increase our chances by releasing a "Best of" DVD that will also please the average music consumer. That's IF we get 10,000 signatures and a high return on the DVD sales.

Would any of the Mac online sites be willing to post a link to the petition? How about the band sections for VH1, MTV, & Rolling Stone online?

Like some one else mention before, I would really hate to leave out some rare material on the Vault list ( Like a 1975 performance of Frozen love or Rhiannon) for something on the Dance video, which is already widely available or already owned.

I think there are to many rare valuable things on that Vault list, to simply put in a performance from the Dance video just for continuity sake.

I think we are going to have to go with what we can figure out on the posted vault list. I know some of the descriptions are, um, absent but Ken never indicated that they would start going through all of the boxes of material to see what is on each tape for this. If we get a strong showing and this first release happens and does well, maybe they could do that for a future release. I know we have several volunteers here that would go through the material for them. ;)

- Marty

In addition to Brian's idea that some of the videos need to be flip flopped for chronological sake, I was thinking that "Why" & "Station man" from the 75 show on "best of one" should be flip flopped too as of course "Station man" was earlier in the bands history as a song anyways.

Also like Brian was saying, If replacing the Dance stuff is considered to be a possibility on the "Best of one" list than in their place I would put the "In the back of my mind" video to at least have a songwriter's credit for a Post FM member (I mean, if we really are interested in doing a "through the years of FM" here and we were concerned about songwriters) as well as the Peter Green "Oh well" (listed in "best of 2") which would start the video as it is the oldest and it would be as least one true pre BN performance (once again trying to continue the idea of going through the years).

To not leave 1997 with only "Don't stop" from the "Brits" how about using "Go your own way" from the "Brits" too (instead of the "Rosebud" version) as I'm sure most would agree that the Brits version is much more powerful than the Rosebud version and "Rosebud" is well represented elsewhere in the list (I mean, if we do want to represent the best of performances available here)

I couldn't decide on a replacement for the third dance item (that is, if this is seriously going to be considered) I would say a toss up between the "Isn't it midnigt" video (once again as Brian suggested) or the infamous "Family man" video if it's a possibility(as this song did chart, albeit briefly) and this would keep Lindsey up to par as before with what was apparently considered to be acceptable songwriting credits numbers. Anybody like these ideas?

I do realize that by taking out the Dance stuff that this leaves Stevie two songs short but as she is represented well elsewhere on the collection, surely it can't be seen as unreasonable that the founder of the band, the Green god, should be represented by at least the one short song coupled with the Burnette tune to show as many incarnations of the band as we can, songwriting speaking. Is this fair? Those wanting the duplication still have the Mirage and Tusk stuff on there and if "Go your own way" is used from the Brits, there will be 2 songs from 1997 instead of 3 whereas if you still use the Rosebud version there will only be one. I've tried to think of how to compromise this thing and this is what I've come up with and it sounds fair to me, I just hope it does to you guys.

John

[QUOTE]Originally posted by wetcamelfood
[BI've tried to think of how to compromise this thing and this is what I've come up with and it sounds fair to me, I just hope it does to you guys.
________________________________________________

I think Marty mentioned something about a 2nd vote , to clearfy what everybody would like to have on the DVD. I really think that's the only fare way.

Here's another thought about the 3 Dance songs. How can you have a Best of compilation without Songbird? If the Best of 1 wins out, you could replace Bleed to Love Her with a version of Songbird. There is a great version of Songbird on Mirage. There are a couple of nice close-up shots of Lindsey playing guitar while Chris sings. It might be nice to end this DVD with Songbird as the closing credits roll. That's how both the Tusk and Mirage tapes end. I also like the idea about using both Go Your Own Way and Don't Stop from the Brit Awards. If you could keep one song from the 3 Dance songs, I suppose it would be Silver Springs, maybe Landslide, maybe both since I'm not sure there are any other versions of these songs in the vault.

Gypsyblue - In discussions with Marty, I think what he means by the "final vote" is that if "best of 1" wins then this would be the list we would go by but there would be a vote in regards to whether the three Dance songs should be on there or be replaced with something else. This is why in my last post I made the suggestions for those particular three.

Macfan57 - I think that if something from the Dance has to be on there that it should be "Silver springs" because:

1. it was a higher "chart" item to keep those people happy that want as many "hits" on here as possible and...

2. It would be a Stevie song so it would keep those happy who feel as though she's not represented enough.

but I don't see why her having six songs instead of seven and Green & Burnette having one each causes a problem and makes people think she is not fairly being represented (as we are trying to be "fully" representitive and go "through the years" and "touch" on as many lineups as possible here right?). As Peter did form the band for God sake, and "successful" or not, whether people want to ackknowledge it or not, the band did exist after BN. (these lineups weren't given a fair chance by the Warners marketing people, the public etc. so to let Billy and most importantly, Peter, (the reason anyone in FM is here today) to have one lousy song each is more than fair but this remains to be seen I guess). As it is, it's a shame that the post Green pre BN stuff is only given a "nod" to by BN clips of "Why" & "Station man" because that's the only footage available from the list semi relevant to that time frame but this "nod" has been considered acceptable so hopefully the Green & Burnette one song each idea can be at least considered too.

Also, I thought having "Go your own way" from the brits would keep the 1997 fans happy as they would get at least two songs from that time (if the dance stuff comes off and if "Silver springs" or whatever is left on from "The dance" then they would have three) and "Rosebud" fans would not lose out dramatically as "Rosebud" would still be well represented by other clips going by what is on the "best of 1" list now. Hopefully I'm not alone in these thoughs but we'll see I guess.

John

The plan of action
 

When the option with the most votes is selected Monday, we'll have two days of discussion on Tuesday and Wednesday.

By Thursday, I will post a final poll to vote on the content. When that vote is done, the option with the most votes is the list that Marty will send to Ken as our "wishlist."

Judging from the current vote as I type, it looks as though option 1 will be selected. What I'm going to do is place the current list for Option 1 in a vote against, at most, two variations on that list. (To make the vote between more than three lists gets confusing). So those of you with ideas for replacements, Tuesday and Wednesday will be the critical days to pull together those ideas into one or two lists to put up for the vote against the existing list for option 1.

This is the fairest and fastest way we can think of to get this done. Thanks again everyone for being involved in all of this!

Les, just for clarity...
 

Two questions (I'll say them as simply as I can but I want to at least hope to cover all bases when I explain what I'm talking about when I do this):

1. Will a thread for "discussion" already be set up by you when we log on on Tuesday Morning for us to hash around the ideas or what? (as I'm usually on early in the morning, I didn't want to set one up if you (or whoever) was going to set one up and end up giving my ideas to "empty air". Like everyone else, I just want them to be heard.)

2. As I say, just so there's no miscommuncation for anyone, can you confirm one way or the other, that the only variations (given "best of one" gets the vote) will be possible replacements for those three Dance clips and nothing else? Or, are there other possibilities? (as per my idea earlier that "Go your own way" could be changed from the "Rosebud" version to the Brits version so that 1997 doesn't get "left out in a big way" that Dance fans seem to think it will if the Dance stuff is taken off, hence the reason I suggested it.)

Thanks for your help on all of this.

John

Re: Les, just for clarity...
 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by wetcamelfood
1. Will a thread for "discussion" already be set up by you when we log on on Tuesday Morning for us to hash around the ideas or what? (as I'm usually on early in the morning, I didn't want to set one up if you (or whoever) was going to set one up and end up giving my ideas to "empty air". Like everyone else, I just want them to be heard.)

I'll set up a thread on Monday.

2. As I say, just so there's no miscommuncation for anyone, can you confirm one way or the other, that the only variations (given "best of one" gets the vote) will be possible replacements for those three Dance clips and nothing else? Or, are there other possibilities? (as per my idea earlier that "Go your own way" could be changed from the "Rosebud" version to the Brits version so that 1997 doesn't get "left out in a big way" that Dance fans seem to think it will if the Dance stuff is taken off, hence the reason I suggested it.)

You can suggest any variations you'd like. Just keep in mind the format decided in this first vote when suggesting replacements.

Re: The plan of action
 

________________________________________________
Sounds like a great idea Les :cool:

Rosebud "Go Your Own Way" rocks. Fuzzy-haired Lindsey is soooo darling. Please keep that...especially if, as Ken said, there isn't much chance that "Rosebud" will ever be released as a whole. It is a better version than the one from the Brits.

The Dance footage is okay to keep, as we discussed before, to appeal to a large audience. At least keep "Silver Springs."

Actually 'Best of 1' is really good. The only thing that I would even think of adding would be Peter Green's 'Albatross. That has a big legacy for the band. Take off 'Everywhere' and put on 'Albatross'!

We don't want to insult anyone...Rick and Billy don't HAVE to be on the video. For a band with FM's history, it would be impossible to try to list something from every era to represent the history of the band. And, most fans wouldn't want that.

We have to keep in mind, that since this is a first release it has to be...and forgive me for saying it, Lindsey LOL!...the compilation has to be commercial!

Love,
jo and jensen

That's a really good point, and I think that's one reason why it would be important to include two or three Dance songs/videos on this DVD. Those are things more easily recognizable to the "casual" fan, and could intice them into buying it.

I also don't know why the inclusion of Dance stuff has become such an issue; yes, we all have the video, but that doesn't stop many of us from watching it whenever we catch it on VH1. And as Marty has said, there is more than enough room on the DVD for a few Dance songs as well as other, rarer material.

-Lisa

________________________________________________
I really agree with JO and Jensen on that point.

Just to weigh-in.
Leaving "In The Back Of My Mind" off of "Option 1" is in no way meant as a slight to Billy Burnette.
In fact, that song happens to be one of my all-time favorite Mac tunes.
However, the video made for the single features very little of the band at all, and focuses on Mick Fleetwood's daughter, and some surreal train station.
So, it was left-off in favor of something more "band oriented".

I wish the 1990 UK Rock Steady performance of "In The Back Of My Mind" was on the video vault list... we could have used that.


As for "Oh Well"... i suppose that's something that will have to be decided on during the next set of voting.
The Peter Green-era is extremely well represented in the Rhino release Fleetwood Mac: The Early Years.
But there has yet to be a highlight compilation of the "Rumours era" line-up + Beyond... and that seemed to be the line of thinking behind the song choices in all of these options.

Still, like I said, that's something that will be left up to the voting.


Everyone has their wishlist, and everyone has their favorite version of a particular song... and there are obviously going to be compromises along the way... but I feel that, ultimately, we're all going to be very pleased with whatever the final track listing is.
:D


Johnny Stew

The only reason I suggested the brits "Go your own way" was to keep the 1997 era fans happy with more than one recording from this time frame (that is, if it turns out that the Dance stuff is voted off) but if everyone wants the Rosebud version instead then they can vote that way. I just understood that most people wanted equal representation from equal Rumours era line ups (i.e. Rumours, Mirage, etc.) and the 1997 reunion time frame does seem to be thought of as one such time hence the reason if that version was used coupled with "Don't stop" from that show then there would at least be two from '97 (as the Rumours time frame is covered with a handfull (more than three anyways) of other songs (this is taken into account even if the Rosebud "Go your own way" was replaced with the brits one).

I agree that Peter Green is well represented on "The early years" however this particular great clip of "Oh well" was left off of there for some reason and as many feel as though this collection should go chronologically "through the years" if we have this clip at our disposal to represent that era, we should use it.

Using this and "In the back of my mind" to represent the great writing talents of Mr. Burnette for the Post BN time frame does not mean that Lindsey "disappears" there would still be plenty of Lindsey and Stevie and all of the "acceptable" bunch to supposedly keep this "commercial", but as it was stated that we are "all making compromises" then, for those who like all (or just other) eras of FM, (yes, these people do exist) surely one song from each wouldn't be the end of the world just as those of us who didn't want duplication of Mirage tape /Tusk doc stuff on here, and chopping into concerts and only using parts of shows like Midnight Special, Rosebud, etc. have reluctantly agreed to go along with the ideas of so far.

Remember that this is solely going to be distributed through this website, it is not going to be at every corner Best Buy so I don't know how "casual" the fans that are thought to be that will be buying these items but they can't be that casual that they don't have The Dance already. I've already said that "Silver springs" would be the one to leave on from The Dance if something does have to stay on this collection from there (once again, I know it sounds like I'm being selfish but this would be for those who want as many "chart hits" on here (as we have many "crowds" to please here and it seems like only some are getting their wishes so far) so this would seem the obvious choice from the dance for those people).

One could argue that if Peter Green is "well represented" on the "early years" DVD then one could say that The Dance stuff is "well represented" on the Dance DVD. So this would be redundant just as "Albatross" is as it's on the "Early years" DVD as well so why would you want to buy it again on a disc? Please consider "Oh well" if people do happen to think that at least one oldie should be on there that is, if we are true "Fleetwood Mac" fans (not just Stevie, not just Lindsey) all giving a little somthing here and there then this is impossible to be a hardship of any description. After all, this is not a "Stevie Nicks DVD" or a "Lindsey Buckingham DVD", it is a "Fleetwood Mac DVD". There were 16 members in the band and (as much as I would like to represent people like Rick, songwriting wise) many sadly can't be represented as it is because of lack of footage but to say "well, we know for a fact that everyone who buys this only wants footage of the BN lineup so we are only going to use that footage and it doesn't matter about the rest of the members even though we do have a couple of short snipets that could be thrown in and not take too much time to "nod" to those members and lineups, we're not going to use those clips. We've decided that all Mac fans only care about these five members so we're not going to include footage from any other members. We're only representing these 5 members and that's it". Oh but we will "nod" to the post Green pre BN days with "Why" & "Station man" because those clips from the '75 show have BN so that changes everything and that therefore makes it all alright, see how nice we are being about that". This is not fair to other great band members. If these people who only listen to BN era Mac gave the other members and band line ups half a chance they would see this as a valid point. How are these members going to get half a chance if people vote off the small contribution to the proceedings that they might possibly have of these small clips? Those who have seen those british band docs like FM at 21 and The story of FM know how great the "Oh well" clip is (and how short it is too) and to have it on DVD uninterrupted would really be fascinating as well as the Burnette tune, OK so the "In the back of my mind" video isn't exactly the Mona Lisa in the art world of videos and doesn't show the band members too much. This is once again to try to keep things as "even" as possible in terms of trying to give the writers a fair chance. As it is one for Burnette, one for Green and six or seven a piece for Stevie & Lindsey (probably more I've lost count now with all of this goings on now) hardly sounds too "even" to me yet this still seems to present some kind of problem. Also, for those of us voted off on wanting "complete" band music videos, the inclusion of the "In the back of my mind" video to this collection would still not make it complete but would help in some sad small way to getting as many of the videos as possible if nothing else.

I know from everything I've been saying on all of this all along it sounds like I haven't given in to anything but I know and God knows that I've given into many ideas along the way on this and I'm fighting for the smallest of things here that may make some bit of sense to me in the end. I just hope that something will go my way for once on this thing.

Please remember, this is just being sold through the site, it needs popular stuff but it needs stuff that will make true fans happy even more. This, if it ever happens, will be for our benefits, it's not going to rip up the charts at K-Mart so we might as well make it as useful to our collections as possible.

John

_________________________________________________

wow!!
Since you put it like that, I guess I don't mind voting for "Oh Well"

:)

Good Grief!
 

Okie dokie! I think we just need to calm down a little & remember it's only a video! Yes, this is something we would all love to see one day, but it's not the end of the world either. I'm a Dance/option 1 person myself, but I'm not going to freak out if the majority votes another way.

While it will (hopefully) initially be sold only through this site, you never know what Warners, et.al. will decide. If they think it has a wider market appeal, they may begin to sell it in other commercial venues. Also, I tend to think that the more widely marketable this DVD is perceived, the more interested Warners will be to actually put it together and release it.

-Lisa

This just goes to show what a big fan I am, I'm not saying it would be the "end of the world" but as a big time fan, when stuff gets released, natuarally you would prefer it to be stuff you don't already have (in great condition anyways).

It doesn't matter now as option one is obviously going to win going by the votes and the time that is left so far but I must say that the whole reason I was saying what I was about the goodness of option two was that it was a fair list and by no means "alternative" as it's original label had probably led some to believe as I thought I had covered as many areas as I thought the fans wanted (covering as many "hits" as possible, cutting up shows, having things be from as many (what is deemed as) BN "eras" as possible (given the footage available), trying to keep songwriting "even" (which we know is impossible)) so this being the case, there would be no "reason" for anyone to "freak out" if it was chosen because as many areas as possible had been covered with that lists content for those people who wished such things. I guess I just had the nerve to suggest that we use all the videos (which some people do want a collection of and it would help represent Billy's talent (which he does have if BN only era fans gave him a fair chance) with "In the back of my mind" which is not "embarrasing" to fans of these eras even though it may be considered so by some others (if the assumption seems to be that "everyone only cares about the BN era and that's it" then why are there other fourms on the ledgeboards other than "Rumours", "LB" & "SN"?), one short clip from the Peter Green days and that we don't use Dance/Mirage tape/Tusk doc stuff because we already have it (as this would be sold through here, it's surely reasonable to assume that even the most "casual" of fans would have it and for those who didn't I offered to tape it for themn from my originals for free but I guess this was not good enough, the idea being that it's not DVD. Well, the Tiusk doc could be released in full on a future disc (I'm all for that being on this disc now but that vote didn't seem to go well) and we could think positively that hopefully if we can prove good sales (of 10,000) to Ken's people (which they say they would be happy with) then we could hope that the HBO rights thing could be worked out and have that released in full on disc in the future too. OK, we could get parts of it on here but wouldn't it be more useful if we hope that the whole thing gets released in the future too. If we spend our money wisely and we use different footage here, then we wouldn't have to think when the full discs of Tusk doc/Mirage tape, etc. were released that "well, this is great but now the first disc is mostly redundant as we took up much of the space on disc one with this stuff". As far as me "freaking out" yes, it is upsetting. How would you like it if you were with your friends and you all chipped in to buy something and you agreed to it because they are your friends so you think you agree on all of the ideas as to what you and your friends are looking for and then all of your ideas as to what the money should be spent on are shot down, they decide to go buy something else that you have very little interest in and then they say "OK, you agreed to chip in 25 bucks so hand it over and we'll go buy it" (?) (there are obvious differences between this kind of situation and what is happeneing here but I'm sure you get the idea)

As I understand it, it is Ken's 5.1 Entertainment group that will be putting this out by themselves licensing the material from Warners. So if Warners does think that they want to put it in the stores themselves then so what? Let them. That's their decision. Ken himself in the q & a said that his company would be more than happy with 10,000 sales alone (unlike Warners who want at least 100,000). So, this being the case, why not have no "duplication" so it is of most use to us and our collections rather than worry about what Jimmy Crack Corn on the street thinks about it? If they do release it, all that should matter to us is that we can get our copy here which we know we could (if the signatures add up and it goes ahead). I mean so what if Warners think "oh well, there's no Dance stuff on here so we won't release it in the stores"? It's better to have quality product and not have it break sales records than put out something with only half useful stuff on there for fans in the hopes that Warners sell it in the stores so it can be "successful" and everything "looks good". I'm not saying "The dance" isn't quality product, I'm simply saying we as fans, who would be the only ones to buy this if we assume the "worst" and that Warners doesn't release it in the stores) regardless how "casual" a fan they are, if they are a regular visitor to this site and buy merchandise at the Penguin album corner they won't be so "casual" that they won't already have it or can easily get it. So why buy it again? If you as a fan really want a "best of" collection of this duplicating nature that bad then why not dub your own copy (like making audio tapes for people) rather than make other fans buy one just because some of you want it to be that way? Surely a VHS copy instead of DVD of this material which you can dub from your originals of these things would not be the "end of the world" to you as a fan too right? Ken's people would be happy with the 10,000 sold here and hopefully would then agree to future releases sold though here. This possibly being the case, why have a big portion of every possible disc relese be stuff we already have, wouldn't it be more sensible spending money on stuff we don't have? I certainly know that's how I'd rather spend my money and I'm sure I'm not alone on that thought. I just hope some of those people will back me up on this thought here but we'll see I guess.

Just as Marty had stated that he had done a search on the petition database to see that only a few hunderd of the two thousand so far had specifically requested VHS so this wasn't though of as a major issue (from the beginning of the project (if it materializes) anyways), it could be argued that one could do a search on the petiton database to see how few people have stated that they only want "parts" of Mirage tape/Tusk doc/dance on there as it must be reasonably assumed that those that had stated "I'd like to see the Tusk documentary on DVD" (or words to such effect) surely mean that they want the "whole thing" on disc as oppossed to just "bits and pieces" of such programs.


Aside from all of that, we are only discussing the replacements for these three songs now so I guess I'll voice then again when Les sets up the thread tonight for discussion for Tuesday and Wednesday regarding this topic. I know my ideas have not been well recieved and they don't have a hope of being considered but as I've stated elsewhere, I just want to do it so when I grow old I won't always have to think "what if I'd posted this thought, it mighht have made a difference" so I'll grasp on to this sad chance and follow through with it so I can rest easy in future years that at least I tried something even though as I say even with three lousy replacements, this disc is going to be nothing like what I personally would have put on there but I hope something of use can get on there for the fans that want stuff on there that you can't get on another DVD. We'll see what happens though.

John

John--

You seem to be taking the voting here *very* personally and you really shouldn't. We are just trying for a consensus of what those who are participating in this discussion would like to see and we'll use that for the wishlist. From reading your posts I get the impression that you feel you are really fighting for your choices and it represents what the majority of the petitioners want while the rest of us here simply don't have a clue. That is why we are having this poll-- to find out what the poll participants would like to see. I've made a very strong effort to let the petitioners know about the polling here and have mentioned it in at least 150 emails over the weekend alone.

I cannot extract the information you are suggesting (cutting up of live performances) from the petitions collected. It simply was not a question while the format (DVD versus VHS) was. Some people added comments while most have not. It is an optional field.

If you feel that you were hornswoggled into signing for a release that you wouldn't purchase because of how this voting is going, I'll certainly remove your name from the petition. Those that signed for the petition are stating that they would buy it if 10-12 videos were on it-- clearly we are shooting for quite a lot more and I don't think those that signed for it would have any regrets. It looks like they would get music videos as well as live performances in pristine conditions through the years. If there is one particular song out of thirty that someone is not happy with, they can always use the skip button on the remote.

As you are giving a lot of thought to the variations in List 1 that would go up for vote later in the week, please keep in mind that we don't want to make all of these substitutions from List 2. From reading the posts you made here, it looks like that is what you are arguing for and List 2 looks like it is being voted down in this first poll, no? Maybe one or two songs I guess but we are looking for the final vote to be between 2, and at most 3, different setlists (with one of them being list 1 as it is posted right now).

We really have to move forward on this and please just don't take it all so personally. I think everyone wants to have as much released as possible but we'll have to take it one step at a time. I'm still most concerned about getting *anything* released-- we still need 8,000 signatures you know!

And as John mentioned, this release is not by Warner Brothers-- it is being done by 5.1 Entertainment; they don't have the distribution capabilities that Warner Brothers has access to I'm assuming so that is why the release would happen here.

- Marty

Marty,

Admittedly, I've been upset at times doing some of these posts but I was honestly only (in the last couple posts anyways) attempting to refer to three possible replacements for the Dance clips (as there are three of them and from what Les said, this seems to be what is up for discussion on Tuesday & Wednesday) so I am by no means trying to "hold things up" I'm all for getting this going and I was trying to discuss those three items in order to get things going. I just had to backtrack a little there and cover all the bases in regards to "defending myself" (for lack of a better expression) when some people had decided that I was going to "freak out" if I didn't "get my way" and that's not what I meant. Naturally as I was under the understanding that I thought people wanted a "through the years" collection here, I thought "what better clips to replace Dance stuff (if that was voted as being the decision) with then the Green & Burnette things?" as these seem to be the few ones on the vault list that would touch on Pre & Post BN era Mac without overdoing it (or so I thought anyways as there is only one of each) and I did suggest having the brits "Go your own way" in place of the "Rosebud" version (since Rosebud is still represented on the existing list 1) because I do understand that the 1997 fans may feel a little snubbed if the dance stuff is replaced and I also said that if something was to stay on from The Dance then it should be "Silver springs" (for reasons stated in earlier post which I won't go into again) I don't mean to "reword" here but I just want to make it clear that I'm not saying there shouldn't be any BN by any means or anything. I'm not saying "my word is law" at all. I just find it very surprising that:

1. People seem (and if I'm wrong then I'll be the first to admit it when the vote proves me so) against the idea of having one singular song from the Post and Pre BN eras each (if we are suppossedly "compromising" as there are fans of those eras too)and...

2. That (given that this is going to be released solely on this site through Ken's people and there isn't "that" much of a need to impress the general public with what we think they want and what would sell to them) finally after all these years and wishing the vault stuff would be released and we can choose what we want on there, that the fans would rather (for the most part) ignore this footage now available to them and instead choose to put Dance stuff (let alone Tusk doc/Mirage tape stuff) on this disc.

but anyways, I guess I'll see when the final set list is decided on if I want my name taken off the list or not but as I stated earlier, I quickly signed up because it seemed a given that (under these circumstances) that we the fans would choose more "useful" footage than what it looks like it may end up being. I know list one has won (or will win as of a few hours from now) and I never said the replacements would have to come from list two. Once again (and as I told you in a private message) I'm for "any" footage being on there as long as it isn't on any of the previously commercially released, already owned (by most people), factory made, items unless they are in full (but it seems as though this option has been struck off very quickly). I'll certainly hang in there though and see what turns up on there. If I am so wrong about what I've said then everyone can "prove me wrong" in the voting. As you say, it's a democratic way to decide so we will see what people really want and given the circumstances I'll just be surprised if this is the chance all of us have waited for and instead we make a compilation of what we already have (when none of us have needed to wait for years to do that, if you've got two VCR's you can compile anything you want for free right now), that's all. As for the databases, I was purposely asking a "loaded question" in the sense that I KNOW that you can't extract data for reporting purposes when it comes to people using different phrases (i.e. "only want parts/pieces/(this song) from "Mirage" tape/video/In concert/HBO special" or "Tusk doc" etc.) as opposed to something more straightforward such as wanting to find out if people say anything about wanting "DVD" or "VHS" like you had done previously and as you say, since it is an optional field, many others could've very well thought what I had been expressing but chose not to add it so all of this database/reports stuff conveniently works against my theory as well. I myself wasn't sure what KIND of comments were to go in that field (as it had never been explained anywhere) so I left mine blank but if only I had known at the time what it might have meant... Anyways, Ken's company wants money and we want alot of good product. Let's not make it easy for them to "milk" all of the footage for every penny. I'll just be very surprised more than anything else if this is really what the majority of fans want to do. So we'll see what happens.

John

___________________________________________________

He really has a good point.
It makes the most since to get all we can off this Vaults list before they lock the Vaults up again....................for another 30 years.

John,

If I didn't know better whilst reading your posts in this thread, I'd be thinking that I was reading posts of my own (defending all the non-Buckingham Nicks incarnations) from a few years ago. (Right, Marty?) :nod:

Yes, I agree that its kind of flogging a dead horse to keep releasing the same stuff when there is other avenues to get that material. What intrigues me is the stuff that, other than this opportunity, will never see light of day (regardless of incarnation), to the public, to the fans, to really ANYBODY (even Warner Bros & possibly even the members of Fleetwood Mac themselves probably don't care about 'em).

But, if the "Run of the mill" what the majority of the people want in lieu of really VALUABLE footage, then so be it...like Marty posted, if we still need 8,000 people to sign up, then we're really in trouble. At this point, I'd just like to see that we CAN get 10,000 people to sign up this time, to get ANYTHING released...once THAT happens (IF it happens) we might be more selective (ok, I WAS going to say "nit-picky" :) next time around (IF there IS a "next time") :shrug:

[QUOTE]Originally posted by wetcamelfood
. . . three possible replacements for the Dance clips (as there are three of them and from what Les said, this seems to be what is up for discussion on Tuesday & Wednesday . . .

I don't think I indicated that those were the only clips for which replacements could be suggested. If I left that impression, I didn't mean to. Anyone is welcome to make suggestions for different songs or different performances for any of the segments in the current Option 1.

I just want folks to know that this second vote is to finalize content for the format selected in this first vote; it's not a time to suggest documentaries or something that didn't get a lot of vote support the first time around.

1. We WOULD be up for putting stuff from the vault list on the video, but we don't know what the quality of that stuff is or what it contains. Someone would really have to watch that to let us know and we don't have time for that. What if we ask for something from the vault and it turns out to be poor. :confused:

2. If Rick and Billy are to be represented, we would just recommend putting on something other than "In the Back of My Mind" because we don't think it really represents the best of that era. Is there another performace that can be put on the video. ;)

3. This is an argument for clips of shows like The Dance and Mirage...When we first saw FM's Behind the Music and that clip from the Mirage video of Stevie yelling "The Chain" at Lindsey and vice versa, we got excited and said: "We want to see that whole concert!" When we were finally able to locate a copy of FM in LA from 1982, it was a fabulous experience to get to see that concert we dreamed about. Maybe some clips of the Tusk concert or even Tango for Rick and Billy material will open people's eyes. If people get this, or see this DVD through a friend, then that could spark an interest. :eek:

4. Clips of these shows on this DVD or video would be remarkably better in quality than what most of us have now. And that is a PLUS all its own. :)

Hello! We were looking at the Option #1. And this is what we would do if it was in our hands. Good or no? What do you think?
*** Asteriks represent changes (songs that were added). We removed some to make room: The Everywhere Video, Bleed to Love Her and Landslide from The Dance, and Save Me video.

1. Albatross (or) Oh Well (?) *******
2. Why (Capital Center ‘75 Concert) ~3:45
3. Station Man (Capital Center ’75 Concert) ~4:00
4. Rhiannon (Rosebud) 6:52
5. I’m So Afraid (Rosebud) 5:02
6. Say You Love Me (Rosebud) 3:55
7. Monday Morning (Japan) ********
8. World Turning (Midnight Special) ~6:00?
9. Go Your Own Way (Rosebud) 3:32
10. Dreams (Paris Promo) 4:19
11. You Make Loving Fun (Japan) 3:45
12. Gold dust woman (3 reels) ********
13. The Chain (Mirage Concert) 5:45
14. Tusk (video) 3:30
15. Sara (Tusk Doc) 4:08
16. Not That Funny (Tusk Doc) 2:10
17. Sisters of the Moon (Mirage) 7:45
18. Hold Me (video) 3:57
19. Gypsy (video) 4:12
20. Eyes of the World (Mirage) 3:45
21. Oh Diane (billed on the list as The FM story") ******
22. Little Lies (video) 3:34
23. Seven Wonders (video) 3:38
24. Big Love (video) 3:57
25. As Long As You Follow (video) 4:07
26. Something from Rick or/and Billy? Suggestions anyone???***
27. Skies the Limit (video) 3:42
28. Paper Doll (video) 3:56
29. Love Shines (video) 4:10
30. Silver Springs (Dance) 5:45
31. Don’t Stop (The Brits) ~4:00

I'm really sorry everybody
 

OK, I've calmed down now, so I just would like to make a few light comments to help smooth things over.

ChiliD - yeah, I knew there were some compatriots out there! I do understand that if the majority does want the run of the mill stuff on there and this idea wins the vote then so be it. I know there's a long way to go on the signatures, I just figured as long as the content was being decided now, I was hoping that if it was "more rare" clips then it would give me personally more insentive to want to help get the word out and get some more votes whereas if it was a collection of "general" stuff that I didn't want to buy again, then I wouldn't really in all honesty be looking forward to the day that the 10,000th person signed their name because it wouldn't be a collection worth much of anything to me (this was before Marty had informed me of the option of removing my name from the list which I didn't think was an option at the time but I now know that it is) but I do realize it would be of importance to my friends here so I will try and spread the word regardless of the outcome.

Les - In all my flusters, it was probably me that misunderstood but I was cautious of not stepping over the line in trying to change too much on list one going by the thought that it had won and I was truely trying to respect that by only fiddiling with those three songs as this seemed to be the only doubtful area on list one that people seemed to have a thought on.

Jo and Jensen - Your list is fairly good, at least it's a step in the right direction as there would only be six "run of the mill" clips as oppossed to the eight on list one (this "already owned" stuff is the biggest concern to me personally). As far as the vault stuff being of poor quality, well, I'd like to think that if we did pick something for the disc not knowing the state of the quality of the clip that Ken would be kind enough to warn us about the technical difficulties that he may encounter transferring it to the DVD as I'm sure he doesn't want to be flooded with complaints from customers about DVD's that are unwatchable/unlistenable so I wouldn't worry there as I'm sure he wants this to go as well as we do as a good quality product is only going to benefit his company with the profits gained from this proposed project with the possibility of more to come if all goes well and we can get the signatures etc. regarding Rick & Billy etc. OK, if "In the back of my mind "is really THAT poor of a video then I have no problem going for something else to represent them, however, I personally would not take something from the "Tango" video just because once again this is easily accessible on VHS and as it's not the Rumours lineup (if the truth be spoken) then I really don't think many people are in a hurry to put the entire show on DVD. (even though I personally would love that!) but whatever you guys think.

As my ideas are well documented elsewhere, I'm going to try to refrain from taking over the thread that Les is going to set up tonight as I'm sure all will be fairly done and all angles will be considered. I really am sorry to anyone I inadvertantly offended in this and the other related threads. I'm sure my friends will tell you, I'm not that bad, I just love my Mac and can't wait to get a hold of stuff that will fit on the 2 hours of the disc that I don't already have on a factory made tape/disc. That's my only main concern personally although other things I have spoken about would be preferrable but I know they are not possible for this release. Now I'm going to think of ways to spread the word about getting those signatures!

John

Vote #1 is complete...
 

The vote is complete. Option 1 was selected by the majority. Now's the time to begin discussions in earnest to come up with lists in the format of option 1 to challenge the current option 1 list in the final vote. A "sticky" thread has been started at the top of this forum now with the full results of this vote, and as a place for y'all to discuss your ideas for the final vote contenders.

Jo/Jensen -- Great start! Maybe you can cut and paste your list again in the thread now set up for discussions about the final vote? I'm just thinking it might be a little bit less confusing to try to keep all of those discussions going in one place so that nobody's ideas get lost in the shuffle.

John -- No sweat. :D