STYLIST article on Christine Doc
 

A new article about Christine’s BBC doc posted today:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sty...ion/339520/amp

There are some minor factual errors, a few points of grammar, and no mention of Bob Welch—or barely Lindsey for that matter. Other than this, at least Christine is getting some acknowledgement.

I love Christine and missed her A LOT when she left the band, and was so happy when she came back. But... the phrase "the group’s most successful singer-songwriter" got my attention. Really? In terms of what, I immediately thought. Well, if it's about quantity of FM singles, it looks like yes, she was the most succesful.

But that may be relative. What defines success? I'm a fan of statistics and KPIs but does that apply in this case? One sportsman can play many good games, and another can play very few extraordinary games. Who's the best? And who will be the most remembered? And, can we join singer and songwriter to use it as an absolute attribute when measuring its success?

I’m assuming the writer defines songwriting success by the number of singles (in relation to to the other two songwriters) and the often high chart position of those singles (again, in relation to the other two). Obviously, this is a very narrow definition of success. I mean, when I hear the haunting timeless beauty of Green’s “Before the Beginning” or the eerie yet brilliant mood music that is “Hypnotized,” I consider success in different terms. And even in the charted hits, like the iconic angry kiss-off of “Go Your Own Way,” or the truly mystical “Rhiannon,” I consider success in different terms and wonder if any of Christine’s songs ever strived for THAT kind of impact. (The answer, I believe, is in their own way, some have: “Oh Daddy” and “Songbird” are as impactful and archetypal as the previous two songs mentioned, albeit in their quiet, mournful modes.) But undoubtedly, in terms of chart-scoring hits, in terms of pop radio AirPlay, and in terms of boosting album sales, Christine’s songs are clearly the most consistent and successful.

I still think Christine’s songs from the Buck/McVie album would have had airplay IF the album was titled Fleetwood Mac as it should have been.

Christine is FMs most successful songwriter - she wrote the most hits that charted higher than the other two, and she wrote their most popular hit Don’t Stop.

Landslide and GYOW are getting pretty close to Don’t Stop, but I’d say Christines songs are still in the lead.

Rhiannon live made SN and FM stars back in the mid 70s but most people don’t know that song now.

Yup. The 2 co-writes - Red Sun managed to go viral worldwide despite everything. Too Far Gone was a huge hit live even though most audience never heard it before.

Thank you for posting, Tony. I enjoyed the article.

Yes...it could have been a major “hit” album under the Fleetwood Mac name.....but........no......
.

Didn't Dreams peak at No.1 on the Billboard singles chart, while Don't Stop peaked at 3?

About Rhiannon I agree. At least here, in Peru, it is not played at the 70s&80s rock&pop radios. It's Dreams, Don't Stop, Everywhere, Little Lies, Gypsy and Big Love they usually play.

i'm talking about 2 separate things - number of hits that charted high - among first 5 first 10 and first 20 on Billboard singles charts and in other countries; and then separately about the songs that EVERYBODY knows now. not FM fans, but general masses, the old and the young. after Clinton resurrected Don't Stop it never went away and stayed huge through now.

Landslide never charted nor was FM single but Dixie Chicks version did, they brought it back and it grew to a cult status now. GYOW charted high, was used in one of the first guitar video games and retained FM cult status at both their shows and as various covers.

I agree with this. This is pretty much how I read into it.

Speaking of success. One thing that irks me and I never could understand is considering the pull the Mac has always had at concerts, why Christine and Lindsey never really had successful solo tours (especially Christine). If you write the Mac's biggest hits and have a current hit solo album, Christine could only sell a few hundred tickets at several stops during her 1984 solo tour. Lindsey's Out of the Cradle was considered by critics as one of the best albums ever released and Lindsey could not go on the road to promote it and he was hoping to do more than just a few shows. Even with Buck/Vie, they did have some small theater success but mostly played to half full small theaters. This is why I say that most Mac concert goers are really Stevie Nicks fans.

That's a mystery to me, too. I can only say that talking about the Fleetwood Mac band, it applies the phrase "The whole is greater than the sum of its parts". But can't explain it.

I think for Christine: She didn't really want a solo career. She didn't care to be a front man. She loved having her amazing success and talent from stage right of Fleetwood Mac.

I feel that if she really poured the energy that Stevie put into her solo career, she (Christine) would had much more success. She is a very talented and marketable force.

I believe for Lindsey: His music isn't for the masses. I honestly think sometimes his music was above the top 40 mass hit machine. Law And Order is an amazing album for me personally. However, I don't think people that love Rumours are going to run out and listen to Law and Order 100 million times.

I sure wished he would have had a bit more success. But, his visions aren't/weren't always what the masses want. Sometimes it's too stripped down, and then sometimes too sophisticated. The risk of breaking formula.

I smell what you are cooking but Out of the Cradle could have had 3 top ten hits easily. Very radio friendly mainstream pop

$tevie has that "IT" personality that makes a star a star. I could name you a dozen bands where the lead singer(I'm NOT calling $tevie that) went solo, and pretty much fell flat on their faces. You can be a great songwriter and a talented singer....that still doesn't mean that you have IT.

Law and Order is my favorite Lindsey album! I love every note! Quirky AF!

And it was probably the most successful. But, he didn't come out of the gate trying to sell albums like let's say a Jimmy Iovine did for Stevie.

I think Lindsey cares about the music more than the business. If he was trying to sell albums in 1981 he had a funny way of showing it. :)
Keep in mind, I love most of his solo material.

It ties with me for first place with OOTC. They're both excellent but I adore LAW AND ORDER for its independent spirit and outright buffoonery. And the harmonies on "Shadows of the West" are gorgeous.

Yeah--one of his goals was estrangement. Those first two solo albums were deliberately provocative in different ways. LAW AND ORDER in particular courted the ingratiatingly weird. Bands like the Talking Heads had a shocking impact on him. But, in a defensive way, so did acts like Ambrosia and Steeley Dan: he insisted on separating himself from the slick LA studio sound. "I don't want to compete with Christopher Cross" he said in a 1980 (or '81) interview.

Meanwhile, Stevie was building a feast from the fumes of the Eagles and Christine was trying to make Robbi Patton into another Robbie Dupree.

I think some of you are over playing Lindsey's philosophy. Everyone wants to be successful and acknowledged. Lindsey has frequently agreed with the questions why as the producer of FM he is so successful but it does not translate to his solo career.
Its very sad and depressing on Lindsey's behind the Music that was shot right after Out of the Cradle came out about him wanting to tour. You can see how sad he is that he had to curtail his tour he hoped would happen. He played Chicago and a few other dates? He clearly wanted to go on the road and promote his album.
When I saw Lindsey last year (front row), his attitude on stage was that of someone just starting out and so eager. He really loved playing off the crowded and gave 100% playing to exhaustion.
Stevie's huge solo success really bothered him in the beginning. He was the one that turned her songs into hits. Now she was on her own hugely successful.

and should have. :(

I don’t think we’re overplaying his goals. He’s never made a secret of going for the edgy or riskier option on the solo albums, especially the first two, where he had something to prove. By the time OOTC came around he was ready to welcome a bigger market—and it didn’t come. He didn’t have that star appeal (on his own) that Stevie has. THIS bothered him, especially since he propped up her FM songs and made them the iconic hits they are.

But FM without him is a sad, embarrassing state. They were interesting before him but since him they’ve plainly needed him around.

This is just my opinion and I don't expect many people to agree with me. I never saw the appeal of Stevie as a solo artist. In fact, although I enjoyed some of her songs, I generally ranked her songs in FM as my least favorite on any given album. I thought her stage persona was silly and over the top. This was true even when I first saw them, in 1975. I loved the band and the chemistry among the five, but was amused by all the young women going nuts over Stevie.

For me, the biggest drawing card of FM was always Christine: the first woman to sing lead, write her own songs, AND play an instrument in a rock/pop band. This is one of the reasons I've always liked the 5 "Bob Welch era" albums the best. Her keyboards are so much more prominent on those records than on the "Buckingham era" albums.

I'll admit, from ages 10-12 I was pretty much smitten with Stevie. I dug her voice but much of my interest had to do with her appearance. Then, sometime around 1982 or so, I heard "Say You Love Me" blaring out of my older brother's stereo. It was on the radio and though I'd heard the song before this was the first time I really HEARD it. I was so in awe of Christine's voice, I resolved in that instant to get my hands on everything she had sung to that point. I never looked back.

Christine plays a lot of keys on Fleetwood Mac and Rumours, though her work is often mixed down (especially on Rumours). I've heard isolated instrumentation for "Rhiannon" and "Gold Dust Woman" and was surprised at how full and creative the keyboard parts are--but because of the mix we just don't hear them as clearly as the guitar. They are a texture, a layer of sound.

I was referring to the "Lindsey does not care about record sales" Everyone cares about success and wants to know there is a market for their talent.
While I agree the Rumours success was too much for him. But I think his feelings about that are noble but I think he jumped the gun. While Rumours was hugely successful and commercial but it was not their intent to be so commercially successful. I get his anti-corporate rock motto.
But the lack of commercial success his solo career definitely used to bother him. Not sure about today. I'm not saying he was in competition with Stevie. But I bet if his solo career had taken off, he may have never come back to the Mac.
So the "overplayed" comment was someone (cant remember who) referring Lindsey did not care about record sales. I get what they are saying but that's way over played. When you spend so much time making an album you definitely want people to buy it and come see you play.

^^^^^^^^Got it. Thanks for the clarification.

that's interesting thought - you mean during Tusk time or during OOTC time? during OOTC time definitely. during Tusk time, i never thought about it, but you are probably right. and would have been way better outcome for him, probably.

and, i have no doubt Stevie and Lindsey were in never ending competition, solo and for the power in the band. if you were at any Mac show somewhere upfront in the last decade, you would see their competition as light as a day, if you were observing them.

after SYW, during UTS time, i think Lindsey has made peace with not having commercial solo career, and that competition stopped from his side. that said - any artist wants people to hear their music. so yes, i'm sure he wants audience to be there and hear what he has to say. but he's done with wanting arena-sized audiences and huge sales for solo stuff.

what is really bizarre to me, is that after she has effectively won their FM power struggle and should now be done and enjoy her victory, Stevie seems to still be in some kind of weird "i will end you and always one-up you" competition with Lindsey... like, of all NYE televised events, why ask Lindsey's friend Keith Urban to join his NYE event? why not join her friend Sheryl on ABC / in NoLa, or someone else? she won, she never has to be on the same stage with him anymore - now she needs to move on and enjoy time she still has. :nod:

Just listen to the demo version of Never Make Me Cry
She often got robbed live and otherwise.

Her playing on Storms is fantastic also. It fills in a lot of the spaces and helps define the mood.

Just listened. Wow what a track. She's playing electric piano, organ, and keyboard (though the latter could be Lindsey). Lindsey is playing acoustic and electric guitar.

If there's a better Stevie vocal performance, I'd love to know what it is.

Not for 1992. Things had changed. Put Tango out in 1992 and it wouldn't have been nearly the hit it was. Had Lindsey made OTTC quickly and gotten it out in 1988, who knows.

yeah Chris is great on that song

better Stevie vocal? Easy... Dreams. That was when she had the full upper range and basically her voice went wherever she wanted it to.

By Tusk her voice was getting really shot. The rehearsal/working versions of Storms she can barely sing at all she's so hoarse (and LB clearly doesn't give a sh&t):eek:

Not so convinced Lindsey's songs ever would have been given a fair shake on radio no matter what year.
Speaking of Tango. Big Love is really a Lindsey solo song. I bet even if was released as a song in 1987 as a Lindsey solo song, it would not have charted.
The huge buzz of a reunited Mac put those songs front and center with MTV.
But that's my point and Lindsey's frustration. Unlike Stevie, why do my solo songs never get played. I remember Lindsey making a crack to Rolling Stone in 1982 that his songs on Mirage never get played.

From what I have heard from casual or non-fans, Lindsey's songs post Rumours, solo or with FM, just lack mass appeal. They may try too hard to be catchy or quirky and end up irritating. And he himself lacks the X factor for some reason.

Silly Lindsey never came to Peru :laugh::laugh:
At that time there was a radio that used to play Can't come back very often. It became one of my favorites, with Gypsy. Then a friend of mine got the (vynil) album, it sounded terrific!

Do you mean, "Can't Go Back"? I love that song!! They really played it in Peru? That's awesome.

It seems that making the keyboard parts into a "layer of sound" has cheated us Christine fans out of something we would have really enjoyed, and probably robbed Christine of the recognition she should have received as the really fine keyboard player she is at her best.

I think I'm objecting to the entire style of Fleetwood Mac production in the Buckingham and post-Buckingham era. I know her keys are more prominent on the five Bob Welch era albums and on the 'Fleetwood Mac' album than they ever were again (except on some of her own songs and the rare ballad where the keys were a lead instrument). Her keyboards are not used enough on 'In the Meantime' and they're definitely not used enough on 'Buckingham McVie'.

I know Christine herself has spoken of her keyboard playing as "part of the rhythm section," but I really dislike this characterization. Can it possibly be true that Christine has never felt confident of her own keyboard playing? What other explanation can there be for this production style that submerges her keyboards under a layer of sound?

What the hell was I thinking? Yes, of course I meant Can't Go Back! I probably got some glasses of red wine while writing that.

That’s true. And he seemed downright ashamed of Trouble, the mandatory single.

I think he clearly craved success, but he wanted it on his terms. He thought he could convert people and somehow change the definition of “radio friendly.” It wasn’t that he had no interest in sales. He was hoping to sell something more innovative and unique, but could not.