Why Tusk is the "Perfect" Album
 

On a more positive note, I would like to share why I think Tusk is a timeless, best album by the Mac. And most importantly, why it is superior to Rumours.

As I've already stated ad nauseam, my musical background was more in singer-songwriters like Mr. Dylan, Industrial like Ministry, and NIN, Brian Eno Talking Heads stuff, REM, etc. It wasnt till getting into albums like Pet Sounds, Forever Changes, Revolver, #1 Record/Radio City, Notorious Byrd Brothers that I started appreciating the Buckingham-Nicks lineup's first couple of albums.

Anyway getting back to my original point, Tusk was the first gateway drug into me liking BuckingHam Nicks. I used to think they were just corporate rock. Then a friend recommended Tusk to me and I thought he was out of his mind. With the first Christine song it sounded par the usual course, although I did like it.

But hearing the Ledge, I was like WTH? But in a good way. This was something completely different to what I ever heard from them. I understood Tusk turned off a huge amount of white album/ Rumour fans wanting more of the same.

But it appealed to me because it wasnt like that. Plus it helped that I listened to a ton of new wave stuff. So the musical direction did not bother me. Anyway here's my reasons -

1. Songs from the album with the exception of Sara or Think About Me hasnt been beaten to death by mainstream or classic rock radio. Every single song off Rumours has.

2. The songs have a quality about them where like Sara even if you heard the thing 20 times, it is not a bother. Whereas Rumours you cringe everytime Dont Stop comes on. They just dont hold up to repeated listening like Tusk.

3. The album have more of a jagged live edge. The production makes the songs sound timeless. Whereas Rumours places them in a certain period of time.

4. Christine, Lindsey and Stevie has their best work songwriting-wise on the album. Especially Christine who honestly I did dismiss at first. But on this album her songs have some teeth to them. As does Stevie's. Sister of The Moon beats Gold Dust Woman for me any day of the week. Lindsey's is just sheer genius. His non-specific surreal, subject matter adds to over-all quality of songs.

5. There's so many songs. You can listen to this album forever and not get tired of it based on that fact alone. You learn new layers about the songs each time hearing them. Especially those who have the DVD audio, I envy you intensely.

6. The music was groundbreaking. They were doing some new stuff arrangement-wise that even some new wave bands weren't doing at the time.

7. It proves to doubters/hipsters that FM did have artistic value to them. And were wrongfully labeled as corporate rock.

That is all I can think of at the moment. For the record I do like the White Album and Rumours. Just burnt out hearing most of the songs from them. But to be fair I'm also burnt out from hearing The Beatles and AC/DC as well. Those are bands I love.

Think About Me has been beaten to death by radio? I wish I listened to the same stations you do. :wavey:

I know. I think I've heard that song once on the radio in the last decade. Actually, I remember I was in Michigan visting and I'd gone to the movie with my mother and she went to the restroom and that song came on over the speaker and when she came out and was ready to leave, I wouldn't leave until it ended. She was miffed and said, "You can't even hear it over the crowd. Let's go!"

Michele

Dont get me wrong, I love Think About me. I could listen to that 20 times over hearing You Make Loving Fun (even though it is a good song)

I think it depends on the state/area you are in. I used to hear Think on classic rock stations here in Texas all the time. I've also heard it in grocery stores on regular rotation.

Luckily it's one of those tunes you hear a million times and never get tired of.

i don't know, i never could stand Sara. maybe b/c lyrics are usually not what i focus on in a song, and Sara just goes on and on - and on - with not much melody to it :shrug:. on the other hand, unlike what the popular opinion seems to be, when Don't Stop comes on the radio, to me it still has so many enjoyable parts in it.

but back to the Tusk -

• other than Sara, i love SN's songs on it. SOTM, Angel, BC, Storms - love them all!:)
• other than TAFE and SMAP, i adore LB's songs on it. Ledge, WMYTYTO, NTF, IKINW, Tusk, That's Enough For Me... and did i mention Walk A Thin Line? :xoxo: adore them!
• other than Think About Me (which i've never heard before buying the CD), i just cannot get through CM's songs on it :sorry:. maybe they are musically great, i don't know... but they are just. so. slow.

question back at you:

seems so many people who say they love Tusk at the same time severely dislike SYW. to me, these two albums have a lot of similarities, and i could never understand how the same person can love Tusk and hate SYW. what are your thoughts on this?

I never really thought I'd get to like Tusk. Too many of Lindsey's songs seemed (and some still seem) bizarre and impenetrable to me. But, with age, I am really starting to appreciate them, and I think that 'What Makes You Think You're The One' now ranks in my top five Lindsey songs.

Christine, for me, still shines brightest on Tango In The Night; that will always be her album (and Lindsey's). I don't love any of her Tusk songs, though I am happy to listen to them.

I couldn't agree more with Green Magic's observations, Tusk is Fleetwood Mac's best album and it's greatness is most noticeable when you listen to it from start to finish. Songwriting wise it doesn't get much better for Nicks and she has not reached this level of brilliance since, all of her 5 tracks are stellar. McVie's Over and Over is by far her best composition and Brown Eyes is also sheer brilliance. Buckingham proves you can pack a lot of punch into a 2 minute track with the Ledge and That's Enough for Me. I can't understand why the band wants to focus so much on Rumours when it could delve into the delicious material here, which always translated well to the stage. To me, today's tours should only have max 3 Rumours tracks and at least half of Tusk ought to be in the set list.

great question! the similarities are there and I like SYW and I LOVE Tusk..both cds are experimental...the two major differences are the absence of Christine...her tempo, her lightness is missed on SYW, secondly (and more importantly) Lindesy's over production was in full swing on SYW...what started with the songs on Tango In The Night with his "family man" obscure, over production continued on with Say You Will where Tusk represents the BEST of Lindsey's funky, honest, earthy approach to music...(which was brilliant for Stevie's songs on Tusk) I wish he could get back to that place.

Yeah I wouldn't say beat to death. I'm still surpirsed that when it was out it was played a little but not much then was more surprised to find out it only made it to number 20. I know they wanted the title track to be the 1st single to show people "this new album is different" but I bet that if TAM was released as a first single then it would've made number one (since that's the sound the public liked/wanted). I guess it would've been misleading to protray a different image to the public of the album but I'm sure WB wouldn't have lost any sleep over it since they'd be getting those Christmas bonuses after all. :) It's amazing to me that WB didn't step in to say "we want (this) to be the fisrt single" as I doubt Tusk would've been their first choice. Also, let's face it, not EVERY song on an album is a hit anyway ("hit" meaning single release, sales number of those singles etc.) so what's the differece? There's bound to have been albums released by many throughout the years that pushed the commercial sounding songs as the singles then people would get the album home to find the rest of the album is different and so on. Just some thoughs anywyay. :)

John

1. Songs from the album with the exception of Sara or Think About Me hasnt been beaten to death by mainstream or classic rock radio. Every single song off Rumours has.

So you blame it on the (Rumours)album?? Then the perfect album would be Harry Minfo's White Album. I mean there are lot of albums that were kind of spoiled because the oversaturation at medias, but we shouldn't blame it on the actual work, the actual album. Same happens with movies.

5. There's so many songs. You can listen to this album forever and not get tired of it based on that fact alone. You learn new layers about the songs each time hearing them. Especially those who have the DVD audio, I envy you intensely.

Is there a Tusk DVD audio?? WHERE!!!?

That's a good point. I'm surprised they didn't put their foot down. It might have misled the public, but no more so than the existence of Rumours did in the first place. Even with Tusk as the single, I think most people still approached Tusk thinking it would sound more like the first two.

I think Sara did generate album sales though. So, I think that was a good single. Think About Me first would have been best (for sales) and they must have learned their lesson because they put Christine's single first when SYW was released:laugh:.

Michele

I like Tusk probably better than Rumours probably because it hasn't been played to death like all the songs off Rumours have been through all these yrs now. I mean sure I do like some outtakes maybe a little bit more than the released version (like the longer version of Sara/outtake of Angel/ the longer version of Tusk from the box set that you actually hear the marching band on it) I love Christine's songs too esp Brown Eye's on of my favorites (though I don't like the version on the box set on this one ugh). I probably only don't like the LP cover photo with the dog. They had so many great pictures (outtakes taken) I just don't understand WHY they didn't use them. Heck they could've put them in the tourbook. (Just like Stevie could've given us more outtake picture in her toubook's) so sad but anyway. Sorry I get off the subject a little bit. I love Tusk much more its awesome they should play songs (more songs) from this LP for sure. :shrug::D

Having been around ,already 17 and a huge fan at the time of the release of Tusk.I don't see TAM making it to number one as the first single.TAM followed Tusk and Sara both of which did make the top ten .Although a great song TAM is way more raw than any other of Chris's top 20 FM hits.It even has a bit of a punk feel to it IMHO.Consider the case of the far more sleek and polished Little Lies which also followed a Lindsey single and then Seven Wonders which only made it to numer 19.Little Lies sailed up the charts to number 4 becomng the album's biggest US. hit and tied Hold Me for the third highest charting FM single.

Imagine the studio's having put its foot down about anything in 1979 to Fleetwood Mac. Warner Brothers was in Mac's back pocket. The band could have done anything it wanted to.

People loved Tusk, so I think you're right. It was the perfect first single by a long shot. It was playful, inventive, energetic, wild, creepy, cinematic, inspired on every level. The Rolling Stone critics voted it the best single of 1979. Other critics loved it; the public loved it; and the USC audience at the Coliseum loved it. It was a newsmaking single: jungle chants and a renowned college marching band. There wasn't a single misfire with Tusk. It was a fabled moment for Fleetwood Mac and for USC, and its triumph has lived to this very day: Go to a Trojan football game at the Coliseum and hear the marching band get the SC fans pumped up at halftime with it. There's nothing else like it in rock history since the Beatles.

But you're right because the really weird weirdness with the album—not the peppy, cool weirdness of Tusk that everyone loved—hit people when they played the rest of the tracks. All those scratching and screeching sounds in the production—of guitars tuned down and played like bass guitars, of sound fields awash in oversaturated gain and distortion, etc.—confused and turned off DJs and a lot of the public that bought Tusk (the single and the album). The martial horns riffing out the title song had the world tapping its feet and clapping along, but the dry-humping & pig-grunting of Not That Funny made people truly sorry not only that they had bought the album but also that a band that previously wrote such great hooks had lost it.

Well, in my opinion, Tusk is an interesting album.
After lot of times I heard the entire albums from the Rumours era, I can say that Mirage is my favourite, but Tusk has special things that makes me like it more than others.
We don't have 10 songs here. We have 20!!

- About Lindsey songs, I love What Makes You Think You're The One, and obviously Tusk. And I like Save me a place, That's all for everyone, Not That Funny and Walk a thin line.
Ledge and That's enough for me, are, for me, just the same thing. And I don't like them.
- About Christine songs, Over & Over, Think about me and Brown Eyes are simply the best. But I love the live version of Over & Over more that this.
Don't know the rest very much... :sorry:
- About Stevie songs, Sisters Of The Moon is amazing, and I make special mention to Angel, sweet and good song.
And I don't like Storms and Beautiful Child. They're so slow, so long... :sorry:

I do not know what would have happened if Silver Springs was included from the beginning in Rumors. Maybe it could be complete, and could be definitely the best album. Maybe...
Regards!!

Yes, TAM is raw compared to LL, but the musical landscape changed a lot between 1980 and 1987. I think the sound of TAM was well-suited to the era in which it was released, just as LL was.

(Also, LL did not follow a Lindsey single. Seven Wonders was in between them.)

Please don't shoot, mutilate, and/or kill me, but...
 

...I don't care for Tusk. :eek:


I adore all of Stevie' songs especially Sisters of the Moon and Angel. As far as a unit of songs, Stevie's Tusk songs are her "best" (subject to opinion, of course!)

Christine, who I normally love equally to Stevie, on this album her songs are just kinda there, too slow and dreary, except for Think About Me. I kinda like that song but can go without it.

Lindsey's songs on FM albums are always my least favorite. The only song of his on Tusk I kinda like is Save Me a Place. The others...oh geez!

In short, while I kinda understand fans being tired of Rumours, I don't really understand how Tusk is so well-respected. I've only been in fandom for three years, so perhaps it comes with age. :cool:

Correct..that is why in my post I stated that Little Lies followed a Lindsey single and then Seven Wonders.:nod:I was drawing a parallel between LL and TAM both followed a Lindsey and Stevie single.

I guess with Tusk for those of us who love it no explanation is neccesary.For those who don't no explanation is possible.:shrug:

@Elle-

To each their own. I just never got into Dont Stop even before it became roadkill so to speak. The arrangement never worked for me. I always felt that was one of Christine's weakest songs.

Sara is a very divisive song. Other peeps I know who like the Mac either love it or hate it. I'll never forget Robert Christgau the music critic saying how he disliked Sara. But then again, his taste in music is very, very questionable. He thinks everything has to have a "Bob Dylan" lyrical deepness.

He looks more at the lyrics than the musical arrangement. For me the lyrics can be garbage as long as the arrangement salvages the song. Remember how lyrically early Beatles records were juvenile? It wasn't their lyrics in the beginning that made them special. It was the fact they were using Everly Brothers -inspired harmonies with folk chords backed by a rock beat.

Nobody at that time was really doing that. Just an example.

Anyway.

@MacShadows -

I can respect that. I think the reason Tusk alienates a lot of White Album Rumours fans is they tend to be more into classic rock like Eagles, Boston, or Skynerd.

BTW that isn't a diss just so there is no misunderstanding. Whereas if you're someone who listens to stuff like Roxy Music, Germany era of Bowie, Kraftwerk, Wire or Public Image Limited the Lindsey stuff can be appreciated more.

That is why you get so many up and coming indie bands listing Tusk as an influence as opposed to Rumours. Cause it dabbled more into new wave and some post punk areas.

I can admire the craftsmanship of the first two buckingham-nicks lineup albums. Even if I feel they pale next to Big Star or The Raspberries in terms of being Power-Pop Classics.

Again no diss intended, but I think to really appreciate Tusk, you have to really like out-there artsy kinds of music. Otherwise it can be rough going. May I suggest popping in the first two Roxy Music albums back to back then put in Tusk if you listen to music while working. It will help you understand Tusk more in that respect.

What I love about Tusk, was how it enabled the band to transition from potentially becoming a commercial band, that needed to conform to the industries needs for more "hit albums." I know it's been said before, in numerous interviews, but I most amazed at the quality and versatility given the tremendous pressure to produce another Rumours. I think Angel is the most played song on my iPod. Storms and Beautiful Child are effortless, Sisters of the Moon is Gold Dust Woman on steroids! Stevie did an amazing job at demonstrating her impeccable versatility on this album. When I saw the Mirage tour footage, with Lindsey's performance of "Not That Funny" I felt like I finally connected to Lindsey as a musician, I felt like I was really seeing him. And I LOVED it. Save Me a Place sounds like it could have been produced in any decade since then. It's timeless! I gotta say that in comparison to Rumours; whose drama was and is still widely talked about, so much is not discussed about Tusk. And there was an enormous amount of tension and life changing situations taking place. Tusk evokes the emotions of the artists in a way that was not as literal As it was in Rumours. I have to say Rumours reeled me in, but Tusk got me
hooked!

love these comments..I agree...fleetwood mac took the "roadless traveled" on Tusk...I find it hard to cut Lindsey a break sometimes but for this success, he is solely responsible:thumbsup:

thanks for responding to my query. you might be right... i think you might be also referring to possible production unevenness from song to song - b/c i don't find most of LB's songs on SYW to be overproduced (except Say Goodbye, but other than the great guitar parts that one is even worse schmaltz imo as a slowed down live version). i can't say too much about SN's SYW songs b/c i so dislike most of them that i hardly listen to them (while i love her Tusk songs)... however i hear many SN fans having gripes with arrangements and production on them, usually listing Smile At You as an example (i can see why - i think the original angry version is rocking but don't care at all for the version on SYW - whether it's LB's production fault or somebody else's decision to go with different version).

re LB getting back to more raw production - did you hear Seeds We Sow? many people say that album is underproduced (although he did do that artificially-making-voice-higher on it too).

:laugh::laugh: i don't know, seems most people hate NTF on Tusk (but love the pot-smoking-orgasm-faking-high-pitch-screaming 10 min Mirage tour version :lol:). when i listen to NTF on Tusk, to me it's the pinnacle of what LB was doing there - not just punk/new wave, but i hear on his Tusk songs a lot of what became popular as world music - in singing, in accompanying instruments and sounds... you can hear a lot of folk music influences from different [mostly European i think] countries. LB used different influences, but if you think of it, using regional music influences was something that Peter Gabriel and others made huge right about that time (in the 80s i guess? may have started during late 70s, idk) but with African music influences. except using different inspiration and instruments, LB didn't work with local artists from countries he seemed to have been taking inspiration from, unlike Gabriel.

clarification: maybe "folk" is the wrong expression... what i mean by that expression in this context is endogenous music from certain regions.

Agree about the stultifying live version, especially listening to it. If you're in concert and see it, it's a little interesting to watch, because Stevie is not that comfortable and it's kind of fascinating, but just hearing the live song with nothing to engage me visually is deadly.

I like the album version much better and I actually like them "talking to each other" on the album closers. That sequencing works fine for me.

Michele

@Danigirl - Right on! I really think Stevie was at a songwriting peak for the Mac on Tusk. Then on Mirage, with Gypsy being an awesome exception, she started sputtering.

But I think that was because of saving her best songs for the solo. I do often wonder what Stand Back would have sounded like if Lindsey produced it instead. I like the solo version dont get me wrong, but I'm curious of how far Lindsey would have taken it musically.

Leather and Lace I think would have been an awesome Lindsey and Stevie duet given their history together.

Aside from her first solo album, I'm kind of meh on Stevie's solo work till Trouble In Shangri-la. While it is a flawed album, there are some gems. I think Sheryl Crow on the tracks she produced, did a great job. And she sang wonderful harmony with Stevie. Too bad she couldn't have produced the rest of the album. Cause the weakest tracks to me are the John Shanks ones.

I do like In Your Dreams. But I've only heard it once in a sitting. So I can't give a definitive opinion. That album is a definately a grower.

Anyway in regard to NTF I listen to the musical arrangement moreso than the lyrics. I think it's awesome but to each their own. To me, the worst Lindsey song is Bwana. That's a piece of junk. That is hard for me to admit given how I love Lindsey's solo work. In fact aside from 2 or 3 songs I dont really care for Lindsey's first solo album. I do love Go Insane, Out of The Cradle, indifferent to UTS, love Gift of Screws and undecided on Seeds we sow.

I wish Lindsey get back more into adventurous music territory. I love his current stuff. But kind of feel he's treading some water musically. Would love to see him work with Brian Eno, as their production styles are very similar.

:laugh::laugh: I sort of really hate I missed that tour then...

Hear that Stevie? :D

For me, Tusk is the only Rumours era Mac studio album that I never need to put on the shelf for extended periods of time (Live '80 is the only live Mac recording I can't get enough of). The sheer difference in the 3 singer/songwriters, combined with the variety and scope of musical styles on this album have kept my attention and love after all these years. I don't think it was just Stevie who was at her peak on this album... it's arguable every single member of the band was at the top of their perspective mountains on Tusk (and about to plummet off the cliff into burnout territory). Stevie & Chris were recording the most beautiful and introspective songs of their careers... Lindsey was smashing the moulds of his traditional style and was laying the groundwork for his musical direction for the next 3+ decades. Mick and John were making the most entrancing rhythms of their careers (just listen to Brown Eyes!). To me, Tusk was sort of the Rumours incarnation of the Mac's swan song... they pretty much slowly & painfully self destructed over the next decade, and really never recovered. Tusk will always be their masterpiece, though. :)

Maybe it's just me, but I think Tusk was a bit of a happy accident... borne of extreme burnout and weariness as opposed to some orchestrated masterpiece by musicians who were at the top of their game. I love it because it is deeply flawed and because the songs are as uneven as they are intimate and revealing. Sure, Lindsey has gone on record to say that the sonic template for the record was a response to the new wave/punk sounds of the time, but I can't help but wonder whether the rough edges were there because people just couldn't be bothered to fix them up into something conventionally pretty. I have a feeling that the Stevie of today would demand remixes and removal of all of the random little noises that are scattered throughout the album. But in 1978/79, she was still the forgotten stepchild in the band who was too busy plotting her solo career to take a stand. If the rest of the band truly cared about the direction of Tusk, wouldn't they have fought to wrest control from Lindsey? In the end they didn't fight him and Lindsey was allowed to run amuck, doing what pleased himself above anything else. Accordingly, the instrumental tracks are relatively loose and meandering- almost as if they couldn't be bothered to play or record with the deliberate precision of every single note on Rumours. In fact, in many cases, they didn't even bother to play at all. While evergreen inspiration is often wonderful, the lack of inspiration can also be a thing of tragic beauty as well.

Ultimately I think Tusk would have failed as a single album- just like The Lord of the Rings would have failed as a half-hour sitcom. The sheer breadth and length of Tusk wears you down, and it envelopes you and takes you into their blurry-eyed, hung over, occasionally intense world. The miraculous beauty of Tusk is a fragile one, and any misstep could have thrown off the balance and rendered it unlistenable.

It's not. She was McVie by then.





Sorry... couldn't resist. A more sensible comment/review etc will follow!

Tusk is the best album ever recorded by anyone.


It breathes 5 and maybe even 6 decennia of popmusic, it's as much inspired by the sixties and seventies as it is by punk and new wave. It throws it's shadow over the alt singersongwriters of the nineties and 00's too. contemporary bands like Tame Impala are directly influenced by it and I'm pretty sure there's more to come in the next eight years.

People who are irritated when something is deliberately brought as an artistic, alternative product will never agree with me. So be it. It's THE album that bonds the popworld with the alternative world.

And therefore...

Tusk is the best album ever recorded by anyone.

Since Ken says Stevie didn't sequence Rumours, it would be interesting to hear sequencing stories about the other albums -- other than from Stevie herself:laugh:.

Michele

Whomever was responsible for that, I'd like to ask them why they didn't include any of Lindsey's songs on side two.

Well he did get credit as a cowriter on The Chain is featured prominently in that song as well as singing co -lead on IDWTK..what is stranger to me is that Tusk goes on for 9 songs..almost a full album back then. with no Christine.

If it was Judy Wong maybe she just could take Lindsey for only limited periods of time and didn't want to extend the agony.

Michele

"Delusional LOON, party of one".

And I think she believes her own fabrications.

:laugh::laugh: Maybe it really was Stevie! No Silver Springs, buster? Oh, yeah - I'll show you! ;)

:laugh: Of course, she does!

From my post in an old thread about Christine's Tusk songs.

Two of my friends responded to this query. I thought their responses were interesting, PARTICULARLY my Friend #2's distillation of Tusk.

Friend #1:
Friend #2:
Then, after hearing the result of the poll:

It's a very uneven album. Never understood the "cutting edge" reputation. This might apply for the title track and a few more of Buckingham's songs, but otherwise it's FM snoozeland.

Agreed.

I would even say that Lindsey's tracks aren't all that "cutting edge", and yes, even for 1979; maybe as far as songs coming from FM, but not in general.

I think Lindsey's songs on Mirage are far, far more bizarre and "against the then-grain" than any of his songs on Tusk. The Tusk songs I can listen to and hear rock songs. His Mirage songs, to me, sound cartoonish; to this day I can't listen to a single one of them. They should be playing in the background while Wile E. Coyote chases the Road Runner.

Well SB would have been a completely different creature. You know that Prince wrote the music(although uncredited), right? So obviously, it wouldn't be the same song...not even close!

I can't imagine L&L without Don Henley's signature rasp. I don't think Lindsey's whine would have worked.

I finally got In Your Dreams, a couple of weeks ago. So far, "meh". There are a couple of tracks that I like, but the rest just hasn't excited me, yet. I've listened to the whole thing, 3 times. I always give any album at least 5 full listens, before I make final judgement, though...:cool:

I like Bwana, and honestly, for me, Law and Order is a masterpiece. Hands down, my favorite LB album. Even weirder than Tusk!

I agree that he's treading water now. Can he or Stevie, either one, no longer make a song that ROCKS? Come on, enough with the sleepy MUZAK!