If STEVIE was the one fired
 

I've been thinking about this and I was wondering what you all think would have been the reaction or reactions if Stevie were the one that was fired. I personally don't think that there would be nearly the backlash that there is for Lindsay being fired.

The biggest (stated) reason for the backlash from most fans seems to be that the classic lineup is gone therefore "the magic" that is Fleetwood Mac is gone. That's somewhat valid. Part of me also thinks that a lot of Lindsey Buckingham fans feel that he was wronged, even though no one seems to yet know a hundred per-cent what the exact reasons were. I can understand if you're a a fan of Lindsay being upset about it though, because you care about him and his career. I also think an unstated reason for the backlash could be the fact that when Lindsey's with Fleetwood Mac and they're up on that big stage, his career is validated when he's up there with the four of them. Therefore his fans feel validated as well. I could be wrong though. :shrug:

Personally, if Stevie was fired from this band it wouldn't bother me at all. Sure I'd be upset if they fired her for no reason or for a horrible reason, but I'd get over it pretty quickly knowing that she'd be touring solo. And as far as the concept of seeing Fleetwood Mac without Stevie, I would have to see what the new line up would be and decide from there.

As said before, it will be interesting to see what the band members have to say once they start doing press for this new tour. They are probably being coached as we speak as to what the answer will be to the question, why was Lindsay fired? Stevie will probably be the one you'll have to watch out for, as she has sort of been a loose cannon the past few years with some of her interviews.
It'll be interesting that's for sure.

Jamie

Honestly I think that if Stevie was the one being seemingly fired in this situation the first thing I'd think would be "Now we'll finally get Song From the Vaults Part II!" and secondly "Now we'll finally get the 24K Gold DVD!"
However I'm obviously not happy with Lindsey being gone, I truly was looking forward to the big tour from the Rumours line-up and hoping for a last output from all of them, maybe not an entire album but possibly an EP.
It'd had been quite a lot of time since we'd last heard news about them and the board was pretty silent, so when the news broke, after the initial disbelief, I was surprised about not being surprised at all by this turn of events; after all this has never been a predictable band, and in a twisted kind of way I was/am sort of entertained. Who knows what will come next?

I would be just as upset. I am a Stevie fan, I am a Lindsey fan and I am a FM fan. The chemistry these 5 people have is undeniable. I don’t mean the lovey-dovey aspects of SnL interactions, I mean the whole thing. I think because the belief is he was fired/tossed to the side in the manner it appears he was is what makes it a harder pill to swallow. It’s very sad that this episode could be the epitaph on this bands gravestone. None of the 5 of them should be proud of that at all.

No firings
 

I think it's well-known, I am an LB fan first and foremost.That said, I would be upset if ANY of the five were fired. The fact that these people are older makes it that much worse because we have lost so many greats lately. :( I just feel that it is too late in the game for a massive shake-up like this.

I love this band, but have no qualms saying I don't much care for the BTM or Time lineups. :shrug: I DO love pre-Rumours and most of the various members/lineups especially Danny. So, I am selective in my love.

All the rumours flying around, speculation, harsh words is horrible and it is tarnishing the legacy for me. I am sad, more than anything, but if this comes down to just Stevie not wanting Lindsey in the band anymore, I will be more angry. If this is all Mick or Azoff's greed...I will be livid. :mad:

All the rumours flying around, speculation, harsh words is horrible and it is tarnishing the legacy for me. I am sad, more than anything, but if this comes down to just Stevie not wanting Lindsey in the band anymore, I will be more angry. If this is all Mick or Azoff's greed...I will be livid. :mad:[/QUOTE]


I could not agree with you more. Too many rumors, speculation and innuendo. The entire situation at this time in this bands history is what makes this the most upsetting part of this.

All the rumours flying around, speculation, harsh words is horrible and it is tarnishing the legacy for me. I am sad, more than anything, but if this comes down to just Stevie not wanting Lindsey in the band anymore, I will be more angry. If this is all Mick or Azoff's greed...I will be livid. [/quote]


I could not agree with you more. Too many rumors, speculation and innuendo. The entire situation at this time in this bands history is what makes this the most upsetting part of this.

_________________________

No way Christine agreed to fire LB just because Stevie did not want him in the band anymore. No way. There MUST be something more to it than this.

If Stevie was fired I'd be ready for a solo tour and a new release of some sort. I'm happy to support her in or out of Fleetwood Mac.

While it would bother me, I (like you) would realize that I have her solo endeavors to look forward to, and if I still wanted to see the rest of Fleetwood Mac I could always do that too.

That being said, I'm sure a giant sh*t storm would break out here, just as it has over LB's firing. The funny (or maybe sad) thing is, all the same behaviors we are seeing on the Ledge these last few weeks would still be playing out now, just in reverse. If Stevie was fired, her diehards would raise the roof over the injustice, while the LB and CM diehards would dredge up all sorts of her past indiscretions to justify it and/or downplay the role of their favorite member in the outcome.

There are some people who are fans of FM as a whole. Among the fans who have a favorite, some can simply enjoy certain members more than others and still remain rational (and civil), while others are completely over the top in their devotion. It's that last group who are the loudest, even if they are not the largest.

It's ironic that the Chiffonheads and the Buckheads will never get along since, as so many incidents have shown, they behave exactly the same way (although both sides would shoot me for saying so).

I think if Stevie was the one who was fired I'd skip the upcoming tour. Don't get me wrong: I don't want to see the Mac without Lindsey either, but I'm weak, so I probably will anyway. Sigh.
I'd miss her voice too much - and I love watching her perform. Not that she engages the crowd very much (Lindsey's job) but she has a special kind of presence and that (to me) is a singular quality I cherish very much.

I don't know if I can enjoy these things as much as before though IF we DO find out that she is somehow responsible & we don't get an explanation. I'd really hate that.

I would hate it, but it would not shock me as much. Stevie has not been fully committed to FM for decades now. She is the main draw and whatever she does, I can't deny her enormous charisma onstage. But I would go and see the Buckingham/McVie version of FM rather than seing FM without Lindsey. Especially because I believe that Mick stabbed Lindsey in the back for profit, I won't pay one Euro for this money machine.
I have less problems with Stevies hypothetical role in Lindseys firing, everyone knows about her problems with Lindsey, she has always been open about that - that's not backstabbing.

Stevie would be off doing something else. I wouldn't care one bit.

:nod: and :nod: :(

The Rumours 5 are guaranteed to make money, so to fire one of them, especially one of the 3 singer/songwriters, well, clearly something major had to have happened to put that financial guarantee at risk.

If Stevie had been the one fired, I would have been just as shocked as I was when I heard Lindsey was, but I would have accepted it. Stevie is rich and has a successful solo career, so I know she would continue touring and possibly continue recording. I also know FM would continue, with the remaining 4 recording and touring. Their lives would continue, and so would the fans. I would also continue to buy albums by FM and or Stevie.

Cute, but would never happen.

If they tour Europe or Australia, she'll definitely be more candid with the press. They always seem to get the dirt.

I agree with your assessment. And I wouldn't be upset if Stevie were the one to be fired because she's well established and known in the music world; has legions of fans; and has a good shot at being inducted into the RRHoF as a solo artist at some point. She's received all the glory.

Whereas Lindsey's situation is generally the opposite. His legacy has been that he's underrated and underappreciated, despite being the "principle architect of Fleetwood Mac" (anyone remember that reference?). His firing supports this view in the Lindsey camp. I can understand both sides.

For me, I've distanced myself from the Fleetwood Mac world over the years. I used express outage when similar spats arose in the past. After going back to school, starting a career, and rekindling the relationships that were actually important to me, I realized I was too close to this band, people I did not even know! What's worse, I was advocating for MILLIONAIRES I did not know. :distress:

I'm still a true blue fan of every member of the band, and my focus is only on the music. But now I don't lose sleep over their politics and personal business.

I wouldn't be that bothered by it, because I wasn't planning to go see another show by FM. If I'm going to see any of them again in future, it will probably just be Stevie solo.

As others have said, I just don't get that invested in things like this nowadays, I have other things going on. And I am probably getting cynical.

If they never go back in the studio again as a five piece to make a final album, that won't bother me either. Yes they're still great live together, and it's nice to think they could all go into the studio together and make another masterpiece like 'Rumours' but may not be a realistic idea. Even though they yielded great artistic product, it sounds like none of the albums they've made together from Rumours on have been very pleasant experiences, with all of the breakups, and then Lindsey trying to take control.

They were all probably lucky to get through that alive. Going back to studio again now, in their 70s, is probably just gonna reopen a lot of old wounds they've had to leave behind. Or else it would probably just be some corny fluff like 'isn't so great to now be friends with each other - you're all my family lalala'.

I have to believe that Lindsey did or wanted something that just wasn't acceptable to the group as a whole. They might have tried to negotiate other plans but still weren't happy. We don't yet know all the details.

I don't know if people look at Stevie as the big culprit because of her history with Lindsey, which has become part of their lexicon - wittingly or not - and remains the theme of their music.

Perhaps some just really don't like her. She's the most visible member of the group and anyone who is successful, is gonna have their 'haters'. But I don't go out of my way to put down other group members who may annoy me at times, and I always give them their due. I love Lindsey's guitar work with the group, just a shame it's come to this.

The main question to me is, should they have just called it a day on the entire group?

[QUOTE=Missy;1226871]I wouldn't be that bothered by it, because I wasn't planning to go see another show by FM. If I'm going to see any of them again in future, it will probably just be Stevie solo.

As others have said, I just don't get that invested in things like this nowadays, I have other things going on. And I am probably getting cynical.

If they never go back in the studio again as a five piece to make a final album, that won't bother me either. Yes they're still great live together, and it's nice to think they could all go into the studio together and make another masterpiece like 'Rumours' but may not be a realistic idea. Even though they yielded great artistic product, it sounds like none of the albums they've made together from Rumours on have been very pleasant experiences, with all of the breakups, and then Lindsey trying to take control.

They were all probably lucky to get through that alive. Going back to studio again now, in their 70s, is probably just gonna reopen a lot of old wounds they've had to leave behind. Or else it would probably just be some corny fluff like 'isn't so great to now be friends with each other - you're all my family lalala'.

I have to believe that Lindsey did or wanted something that just wasn't acceptable to the group as a whole. They might have tried to negotiate other plans but still weren't happy. We don't yet know all the details.

I don't know if people look at Stevie as the big culprit because of her history with Lindsey, which has become part of their lexicon - wittingly or not - and remains the theme of their music.

Perhaps some just really don't like her. She's the most visible member of the group and anyone who is successful, is gonna have their 'haters'. But I don't go out of my way to put down other group members who may annoy me at times, and I always give them their due. I love Lindsey's guitar work with the group, just a shame it's come to this.

The main question to me is, should they have just called it a day on the entire group?[/QUOTE]

You'll have vocal contingents that have strong opinions on both sides of this particular question. My thought, is that if the remaining members are still having fun and the fans are still having fun, why close things down over the loss of one member? What if they had decided to disband after Peter left all those years ago? Think of all the great music that came along in the intervening years that we would have missed. My two cents, though as I said, there are plenty of opinions on this.

At first, I thought to myself NO! They shouldn't record a new album, because what's the point- it'll just be compared to their previous albums and probably not be very good, and they're old and won't appeal to young fans, etc etc. And then I thought, wait a second- why shouldn't they record a new album? Who cares if it flops or it's bad? At least then we'll know it was a mistake. They shouldn't NOT do something just because they don't know how it will be received, and just because they're old doesn't mean they should have to quit doing something they obviously love to do. If anything, they've earned the right to do this.

Like I said in a different thread, I bought Time and hated it, but that album has fans who enjoyed it, so I would never say FM shouldn't have recorded it. I had that attitude then, and I have that same attitude now.

Ty guys. I can respect other viewpoints. Sometimes wish I wasn't so cynical and thinking negative. Not the way to get things done lol.

WOW- my mind is blown! Feather Blade, when you put it like that, I just got shivers thinking about that scenario. It's absolutely true that at anytime, FM could have called it quits before Lindsey and Stevie had a chance to join... or even before Christine had!

Thank you for giving me a whole new perspective on this!

wouldn't happen!
 

EVER! She's the only one with any pop culture significance.

Many people probably thought Stevie and Lindsey joining the three Brits was a crazy idea at the time. But something obviously clicked.

Artists have to go out on a limb or take a risk sometimes to keep growing creatively.

But this is the Stevie forum, not about the new lineup, so will leave there.

I would be heartbroken, but I would say: that's what you get for not recording. Touring isn't the only thing a band does; it also records. And I was/am heartbroken she didn't record. Stevie would have had the best songs on the album, based on IYD and 24KG. As such, I would hope for a 24KG2 and a solo tour.

That said, if FM could have continued as the 5 as a touring entity while LBCM continued making records, I'd have been more than content.

So the way things turned out is my worst scenario. I have no interest in paying to hear "Don't Dream It's Over" (hey now hey now don't dream it's over! hey now vom)--and now Stevie won't even be spending time recording 24KG2 :( :( :( :(

What's the World Coming To?

Agree with everything you've said here. I talk to a coworker about FM a lot (she's not a fan but is familiar with the music). She said if Stevie doesn't want to record then just tour and carry on with solo projects--what's the big deal. Especially now with Chris back in the fold. It's funny how simple and straightforward things appear to regular people. I find it exhausting to try to explain the level of dysfunction in this band

Except we don’t know that she won’t record, especially now that Mick Campbell has joined. Maybe we will get another FM album and a 24KG2 album. I have always thought her won’t record because record don’t sell” was a smoke screen for “won’t record because there is no way we will sell enough records to justify spending time with Lindsey in a studio.” But now the game has changed. She did go into the studio to do a few guest songs over the last few years. We don’t know what she has planned.

I won't be the least bit surprised if she records now that LB isn't involved. Just my opinion--it's recording with him that's her issue.

I agree, but I tend to think it'll be more along the lines of her doing something with Mike Campbell, solo wise.
I saw some concern on some other threads about them doing too many Crowded House or Tom Petty songs on this tour. My prediction is that they'll maybe do one of each. I think we all have time for that.

Jamie

As a fan, I agree - I think it was an excuse so she didn't have to spend time with Lindsey. They still went on with the show for years, but the band has probably never entirely healed from things that happened. Hence, when it looks like all five are ready for a project, it never quite gets there and one of them will bail out.

This is probably gonna be a controversial question - I hope not a trigger for someone who may have been in an abusive, toxic relationship themselves. Has anyone else wondered if perhaps she suffers some trauma from their relationship and how he treated her? These days we'd probably call it abuse. Onstage they're singing songs from the time when it was worst. Imagine all the feelings that brings back, possible flashbacks of things that are upsetting?

Abused women often still feel like they love the partner, and they have difficulty moving on. This just adds to their struggle. The effects can last strongly for many years afterwards.

I read reports that she really struggled to finish the last tour and couldn't wait for it to be over, because she wasn't feeling comfortable with Lindsey and it was really starting to drag her down. Perhaps she thought that after a two year break, she might be feeling strong enough to go back out on the road with him again.

If this is how she feels, I don't think she should have to put up with the situation. I know I wouldn't. May be part of the reason why I'm finding the attacks on her quite offensive.

Ftw I don't think this was all just down to Stevie. I think that Mick may have been having his own trouble with Lindsey as well.

Personally, as much as I'm looking forward to hearing the new lineup, I think it would have shown a lot more integrity if they'd said "We're not waiting" to Stevie in 2014 much as they have to Lindsey now. At any rate, the instrumentation wouldn't have lost anything.

I understand, but I think that the BuckinghamMcVie album was a "We're not waiting" for Stevie in its own right, just less dramatic.

The thing is, I don’t think Stevie would be fired for whatever it is that Lindsey was fired for. Despite all the articles saying it was the tour schedule, I can’t believe it’s just that. I think part of it was his attitude or unwillingness to compromise, or some other issue we don’t know about. I think he and Mick had a serious argument and there was no seeing eye to eye. But even if we assume it was just about touring: Stevie put her foot down about not doing an album... so Lindsey and Christine put out their own album. But Stevie is always in the mood to tour. She says in tons of interviews that she likes to alternate two years between Fleetwood Mac and two years solo... the exception being when Christine came back in the middle of the world tour a few years ago.

So I don’t think the same problems would arise as did with Lindsey, because Stevie is always interested in touring, as long as it’s not nonstop.

I would probably not see FM without her as she is my favorite in the group but I would be excited for her solo work... and i’d have hope that she’d rejoin someday!

I agree that the backlash would have been less intense. Partially because most of the reactions would have been along the lines of "HUH??" or "LOL" - Nicks is the star, she's what brings most of the fans to the tours, so the idea that Mac might fire her is kind of a non-starter.

But in an alternate reality where say Mac did fire Nicks for refusing to record a new Mac album: I think my reaction would have been "Are they nuts?? She's their biggest draw" but I also wouldn't rant that the band should just breakup instead, or crow that their ticket sales might be down, or refuse to buy any more of their music. I still bought the 'Buckingham McVie' album even though Nicks (obviously) wasn't on it, and Nicks is my favorite of the three.

I think Buckingham fans have every right to be angry that Nicks got a pass for not recording but Buckingham gets canned for not touring - but that's the reality of the band power dynamics now. Tours DO earn the band more money than album sales do, and the real bottom line, and sad reality, is that the Buckingham/Nicks relationship deteriorated too far for them to work together any longer.

Yes, I think you're exactly right about this. The "records don't sell" was a smokescreen - it was really about not being able to record with Lindsey any longer.