Mmh hmm, like a lot of the stuff here about Stevie, especially since she fired Tiny.

Tiny? Don't get that reference.

And the person she supposedly cleaned for, Keith Olsen, has talked about just how bad she was at it and how not into it she was, not really putting a lot of effort because, you know, princess was meant for better things. Like how she happily states that when starting out in her first band she refused to do those things people do like helping move amps or carrying a guitar case. She's a spoiled brat and always has been. She's lucky she came along when she did, because honestly, she would not make it starting out in today's music biz.

Some of the revisionist stories going around now or that have gone around in the past are quite something. The way they make SN out to be some battered woman who was terrorized for years by big bad Lindsey is laughable. A handful of incidents in 40 plus years is not worth going on about considering all the crap they all did to one another over the years.

And even though we all know how bad she was at doing the cleaning thing (even her fans) she's STILL using that story to bash Lindsey, because that's pretty much all she has. It's a very diplomatic way of recognizing his effort and bashing him at the same time.

Well, she’s kind of funny. When she says that Lindsey only lasted one day as a telemarketer, I have imagined many of his short-lived sales calls in my head and had hearty laughs.

But the truth is, Lindsey had separate sources of income be they occasional music gigs or money from family. He wasn’t dependent on her income even then. In fact she went away for months. She went back up north and he (and Richard) managed to make ends meet fine without her. She says when she returned she had to eat humble pie to move back in with him. I am sure he was smoking pot, hash, bouncing checks and being an overall degenerate but the idea that he needed her waitress tips to eat just isn’t true.

One can't help but wonder how many similar stories like the telemarketer one he has about her but he choose not to share just because it would put her under a negative light. :(

Please...

How could you possibly not see the chemistry between them???

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/d6/d3...a658a7d629.jpg

You're trying to prove a point with that photo, but I don't get it. They are not looking at each other in the particular moment that photo was snapped, but the band broke up after a horrendous fight a year before and there they are at a wedding with their arms around each other. That doesn't exactly say no chemistry to me. Instead it says, "I wish I knew how to quit you."

I wish the band would be 1% as loving towards Lindsey now as they were after the Tango split.

Oh FFS, it was just a joke, although this is probably more accurate than not.

Hell, even John was still complaining about Lindsey’s modus operandi in 94-95.

And as loving how? Returning his calls?

Giving him an album dedication, practically making out with him when he appeared at BTM. Christine was standing there stroking his hair and neck.

John said he wanted him to leave the room, not leave the BAND.

And yes returning his calls, too.

You mean when it was basically over? Sure, they also weren’t in an especially great place, but neither was he, as he soon learned. He d*cked around too much, and his career suffered.

John told Bass Player magazine in 1994-1995 that he never liked how Lindsey Buckingham told him how to play, not that he played what Lindsey suggested.

I mean they never tried to ignore his contributions to the band and maintained a fairly cordial relationship with them. They showed caring, which is absent now.

I don’t see John’s comments about Lindsey as any big deal. Lindsey complains that John and Mick tried to make him use a pic. There are always complaints, but they should not expand into, say, trying to keep someone off of the Sirius radio channel.

LOL oh yea he really messed up by avoiding two stints in rehab and "wasting" his 40s in a drug induced haze. If anything his leave actually helped him.

There was respect between them. They may not care about each other and they may not keep in touch but the respect as musician and fellow former bandmate was there. Now not only all that is gone but they're purposely trying to put him under a bad light. Why? I have no idea.

Some people will never get it. :shrug:

Yep. We’ll never forget how he called Christine’s and Stevie’s solo shows lounge acts. Meanwhile, HIS first solo show had nine extra musicians and he did seven Fleetwood Mac songs in a seventeen song set. He still did five on his last, at times karaoke tour.

I am not sure why nine musicians in a solo set is bad. I didn’t need the wall of guitars, but I don’t think they detracted from his own musicianship either. They enhanced it. I will never forget how Doing What I Can first came to life for me live, not on the record.

Steve, If I may have your permission to speak, may I point out they have all had extra musicians as part of their touring bands. Stevie has also had Fleetwood Mac songs in her solo set since 1981.

Nope. Not giving that one to him. His comments have been out of line. He criticized them for doing exactly what he did. Christine only had five extra musicians, did almost all of her album, as well as deep cuts. She was much, much less the “lounge act” even the genius couldn’t escape.

In the 21 years between the end of the “Mirage” tour and SYW, Lindsey only did three studio albums (Go Insane, TITN, and OOTC) and two tours (about 90 shows). In that same time, Stevie did SEVEN studio albums and TEN tours (over 550 shows). Furthermore, in the 23 years between the BTM tour and OWTS, Christine did two studio albums and one tour (47 shows).

While Lindsey was basking in the glow of his own genius, Stevie was busting her ass.

oh laaawwd lets play numbers with steve again. LOL I dont even care enough to go down that rabbit hole plus I wouldnt want to be told to "go away" again. LMAO....

Perhaps touring is Stevie's way of basking in the glow of her own genius? She does seem a bit of an adulation addict. And she gets a lot more help in the studio than Lindsey, so how many albums would she truly have solo?

The parameters of your comparison seem a bit arbitrary, as Lindsey has increased his output since then in terms of albums and tours.

They all have points to critique from an artistic standpoint, not sure why Lindsey's are so flagrant to you?

I just don't see what the numbers are supposed to prove? Being prolific isn't always a good thing. Lots of artists release albums at a slower pace, and so what? I know plenty of people that would be better served waiting longer between albums, Stevie among them.

Elton John criticized Billy Joel for not making new albums, his response was "Elton needs to make fewer albums"

Good for him? how does the saying go, work smarter not harder?

Seven studio albums, ten tours and tons of cocaine to get through all that work apparently give you the right to kick someone out of a band, which is my main complaint here. Stevie was always sorrounded by the right people.

And yes, half of those albums suck. Even her fans say it. Work smarter, not harder.

Whatever. That doesn’t change the fact that when The Genius decided to tour (about a year after His magnum opus/flop came out), He still needed about as many musicians as Stevie.

Well, she still has two more…

Actually, He still has the fewest overall studio releases of any of the classic lineup, or even present lineup, but who am I to judge?

And yet He’s still in last place.

They never critiqued Him.

So, you’re saying that OOTC and the various GOS songs benefited from being sat on for a half decade or more? I mean, Lindsey left in 1987, and OOTC came out five years later. Did those songs age well? Were they remotely relevant in 1992, save for maybe the Starbucks crowd, which wasn’t a thing back then???

Did “Steal Your Heart Away” sound better in 2003 than it did in 1998? Did any of those songs benefit from at least a five year wait?

Okay, but don’t get pissed off when the one who worked harder got inducted for a second time.

Agreed as multi-talented as Prince was and as much as I loved him, his album releases were ridiculous and the sheer volume lessened the value of the work. Sometimes crafting is good. Of course, one can go overboard with finessing the same song too long, too.

Be that as it may, Stevie had like eight extra musicians, lounge act; Christine had five extra musicians, lounge act; Lindsey had nine extra musicians, total artistic experienc. Huh? By comparison, Richard Thompson tours either as a (completely) solo guitarist/vocalist or as a trio.

I don’t Think many people believe Lindsey should be inducted into the RRHOF for his solo work. And Lindsey didn’t call them lounge artists because of the number of musicians they had with them, it was because of what those musicians were doing or not doing and the caliber of their work. I say that with a nod to Carlos.

I quibble with your definition of lounge act, sir.

Aside from that, who cares. No one denies that Lindsey was critical of FM. He’s always got something to say.

But he didn't "need" as many musicians, that's what he chose to do. The guitar army was a weird idea, but it wasn't a necessity from a musical standpoint. Stevie really needs all those musicians on stage.

Music isn't a competition though, so math is only going to take you so far here. You can't prove/disprove your opinions in music by citing numbers. Quantity of output doesn't prove anything, other than Stevie was more career-focused. And she deserves credit for that, but that also comes at a price too, such as chasing commercial success a little too much in the 80s. This has dated a lot of her output (hence nothing performed post-1983 at the RRHOF).


You mean in public? I'm sure they have critiqued Him plenty in private

I'll give you this for the GOS material, but who knows what OOTC songs would have sounded like if Lindsey rush released them? One of the impressive things about that album is the production, and maybe time was needed for that. Lindsey has always been a studio perfectionist for better or worse. I agree that he should have released OOTC sooner, as by 1992 an album like this was never going to sell (post-Nirvana and all that). I don't think it ever would have been a huge success though, even in 1988.

I still can't give you this point, though, as none of Stevie's, Christine's or FM's output after TITN has aged well. If we're going to be completely honest, nothing Stevie has done after her first solo album has aged particularly well. Some great songs, but the 80s production dates much of it (and to forestall any criticism, of course "Go Insane" suffers from this as well). And none of her recent output is very memorable.

So why is the whole contrarian thing strictly against Lindsey? Let's discuss Christine's great solo career while we're at it.

Yeah, those comments predated Carlos. We’re talking like pre-TITN, before he actually tried it himself (and preceded to perform “The Chain” as a solo artist, with no sense of irony as the kiddies around here like to say these days).

Yeah, facts and what not…

That’s the thing, though. In that time, she kicked cocaine AND klonopin. She went from her peak to her absolute worst to her redemption.

What did Lindsey do during that time?

Plus, are people not allowed to have had low points? Or, do those just always get to be thrown back at them? (Sometimes even I am allowed to fall.)

Good god, I wish I had a bullet right now. Y'all are f**king exhausting.:wavey:

I can’t speak to Prince, but you know who I used to work for. My attitude is that if he releases five albums a year and there are three great songs per release, that’s still 15 great songs a year. I’ll take that any time over one album released between 1987-03.

Which proves my theory that Elton John is the only person who thinks Billy Joel should make a new album.


http://www.theglobaldispatch.com/wp-...Update-SNL.png

Not mine, His. He did everything He criticized Stevie for doing. He used a bunch of extra musicians and did Fleetwood Mac songs. Literally no difference. He failed to meet his own standards.

Yeah, but again, he was the one calling the others lounge acts and proceeded to do exactly the same thing.

Five years, though? “Sgt. Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band” was recorded in six months and “Pet Sounds” in nine months. It’s not like a lot of OOTC wasn’t derivative of his past work. It was hardly revolutionary, broke much new ground, shed any new light on Lindsey, or warranted a five year wait. It sounded a lot like Tango II, which if you think about the Tusk-after-Rumours storyline, is something of a betrayal. I mean, I’m supposed to accept that His Genius is a genius for breaking the mold after Rumours, but did something completely within the mold thirteen years later, after a five year absence?

I think John’s album and ITM aged better than the rest, but they have a timeless quality to them. They’re not monster, revolutionary albums, nor were they trying to be, but they’re not embarrassing.

What solo career? She’s Fleetwood Mac. That’s her brand. She only made one solo album during her tenure with Fleetwood Mac, which the label pressured her into, and it yielded a top ten single, another top 40 single, and peaked at #26 (compared to the highest charting album by the genius, at #32).

The other two solo albums were done in some state of retirement and really should be judged accordingly. That said, I enjoyed them.

And, it should be noted that she had eight albums under her belt, not including her session work, prior to 1975.

But he didn’t criticize them for having a bunch of musicians.

If Lindsey had toured with Tango he was going to have extra musicians with FM himself. In those days he always wanted the fuller sound. He eventually found out he could not continue to afford it. He was forced to pare down for financial reasons.

The sheer number of musicians had nothing to do with the “lounge act” aspersions he cast. It’s the way the musicians were utilized. It’s the same thing with the microphone. Lindsey did not say that Stevie was Vegas because she used the microphone, she says he said she was Vegas because of HOW she used it.

But you invented an argument where none existed. I said that the break up in 1987 was less acrimonious than this one and you responded by saying that Lindsey criticized the band in 1987. Yes he did but he also reached out to remain friends with them. That’s why he was at Mick’s wedding in the first place, giving you the opportunity to happily supply us with a picture of it. And when he appeared at the BTM shows, Mick introduced him as if he was one of the band. Fast forward to today when if he appeared at one of the shows they’d probably have security arrest him and throw him out.