The Glass Half Full thread
 

Or honestly to me about 3/4 to 80 percent full. I could’ve also named this thread “can we please apply even the slightest bit of logic or attempt to think a bit more rationally.

This is arguably one of the most exciting times to be a fan of this band since 2003 and the vibe in this board is somehow crisis mode or something.

Most of this is copied and pasted from one the 10 whiny threads we have going on. Not to sound incredibly Stevie Nicks like but I feel I made too many great points to let this stay buried


IF this new line up records an album it would be such an unbelievable blessing of New Fleetwood Mac music (and honestly even they do t it’s still acceptable levels of new music) while most members are in their 70s despite the false narrative around here that “we just never get new music from this band, way way way woah is us!” “But the BuckVie album doesn’t count since it doesnt say Fleetwood Mac on the cover :laugh: That is the craziest logic I’ve ever heard of!

2011, new stevie album and New Lindsey album

2014, new stevie album

2014/15 the impossible as we were previously told happened and the whole world was given another chance to see the rumors 5 tour in pretty danmed great performances. *

2017, new Fleetwood Mac**

2018 new Lindsey album

2019 new line up of Fleetwood Mac album***

* I know that’s not new music or wasn’t even a great set, but for that tour I’d forgive them since again I’m shocked how quickly we all just take for granted and act so ungrateful that Christine mcvie overcame her phobias and came back to the band as the oldest member of an already old band. THIS was the farewell tour for the rumors 5. It wasn’t called that, but they covered enough ground to basically give anyone who ever wanted to see “that” Fleetwood Mac a chance and if they didn’t then , oh well, there’s plenty of great quality old footage of them for the few thousand new fans they’ve gotten since then. For the much larger majority whom have seen this version of the band MANY times before and show that much to please most of the people on this bird . so now they are forced to change things drastically right down to how they stand. Maybe it was for all the wrong reasons and maybe the most “moral” decision wasn’t made as to who left the band but honestly I think Lindsey is the one I’d rather see on his own. He’s more focused. He WILL release a solo album. Stevie would say how she wants to make an album and write a Rhiannon movie and small theatre tour but get distracted wiTh an offer to join a Tom Petty tribute tour with Dave grohl or something similar. (And I would be at that show and love the **** out of it, and also going to see a Lindsey/Christine Fleetwood Mac) but I prefer it the way we got it. Either way we get Double Product as opposed to just Fleetwood Mac! And anyone who thinks that there’s some kind of “magic” still between those exact 5 people your crazy. All parties have been proven over and over again to perform better away from the fireflies especially this century!

**i don’t care what it was called, we’ve already gotten this last great Fleetwood Mac album with that classic Fleetwood Mac sound, the follow up to tango or say you will depending on your barometer of what’s Fleetwood Mac. This 10 song album was a cohevise masterpiece, and while I may not agree with her logic to not participate her involvement couldn’t have made this album any better. So my point is A) the stevie/mick anger is a bit overblown, if the title is your big ham up then you’ve got serious problems. And B) any “anger” directed at Christine is to me outright blasphemous, considering we have carnival begin, too far gone,feel about you, and red sun to listen to forever when we previously thought she wasn’t going to leave her garden again. But Fu** her for not defending Lindsey blindly in a situation we know nothing about yet.

***this last star wouldn’t need explaining as a positive just a few years ago when the board had more adult minded fans who understood and appreciated the whole history of the band and didn’t live in this social media fantasy land world where everyone is so emotional and on this “poor Lindsey, Lindsey WAS Fleetwood Mac! With no one speaking up against that crazy talk! Lindsey was great but this notion that if the band records an album without Lindsey then it would automatically be less “real” or even sorry to say “potentially” better then the album would be with Lindsey. I know people like SteveMacD see that potential. Some are comparing it to when Lindsey left before as a repeat of something terrible. Well the album made tight Billy in my opinion is better then the previous 2 albums with him. In addition if a repeat of behind the mask means neil will write a song as good as In the Back of My Mind, mixed with Stevie Turing our better material then The Second Time were guaranteed an amazing album.

I realize some might find that offensive to all that Lindsey and Lindsey alone has done for Fleetwood Mac which is Churn out great albums from the bands raw rubbish. When in reality the list of great Fleetwood Mac albums and how responsible I’d say Lindsey is for them is all over the board. While I think his vision on Tusk led to the greatest album of all time by not just this band but all bands. He constructed the greatest album of all time. But after that most of the best albums by this a band were before 1975 with the 2 absolute worse were Lindsey albums (mirage and tango) and then even on upper tier albums he was involved in he made some really questionable decisions as they pertain to song choices or even what directions songs should go in. Best example of that is literally every decision made in every Christine song from the first album was terrible and butchered Chris’s songs. They still ended up nice but after hearing what the started out as, in my opinion he took them all in the wrong direction.

And let me wrap up this long winded post that i can’t even remember which of the 7 Bitching Theme threads I’m even posting this on:


Every other danmed band from their era is either dead or partially dead or retired from being too injured (Brian Johnson and his hearing. And of those still active, they’re all putting out less new material then the forms of this band. With few exceptions one being the inhuman Neil Young. The Rolling Stones don’t have the new material output of the last 10 years as Fleetwood Mac and yet their fans act more reasonable.

And what about Led Zeppelin. How the hell fo they maintain their legendary status with their many fans with no blemishes on them since they just threw it in, in 1980. With Robert Plant being FAR more rigid on Ever reuniting them, yet never being crucified like Stevie Nicks. Yes I know they were just such an honorable group not wanting to replace their drummer. I’ll take the dishonest sneaky, money grubbing band over the honorable band l if th dishonorable bad is giving us product At this advanced age.

Nothing against LZ. I just like to explain things in anologies and that always boggled my mind that so many on this board constantly gives a **** about Fleetwood Mac’s legacy being tarnished? Who Cares. It’s like some of you are so delusional you’d like an alternative universe where the band politely quits to reduce confusion or suffer a tragedy but instead we’ve had an abundance given to us since 2011 with way more on the horizon. How ungreatful, all out of feeling bad for Lindsey. Well I sort of start to too, but then I remember he’s actually better off then almost all of us on The Ledge. and it’s such an odd reason to give up on the band. I’m just blown away the vibe isn’t excitement as it should be in anticipation to what comes next, but mourning like we just experienced a
Natural disaster or terrible death

I saw this post of yours in another thread and I like how you think. The biggest half-to-mostly-full thing for me is one you already mentioned: the Rumours 5 are all still alive and kicking. Another bonus, that even though the remaining four will all be north of 70 when the tour kicks off...they'll still be touring. I've said elsewhere that after the passing of Glen Frey and Tom Petty, I'm just happy to have the opportunity to see FM again. Another half-full aspect: Mike Campbell. And until I see the set list revealed to be the same old-same old, my glass is half-full of hopes for some rarely or never performed songs. :D

I am more interested in FM now than I have been for many years. Intrigued to see what they give us and tantalized by possible new music. The Lindsey era is over, play on!

Whatever drugs caused the severely altered state required to think that there might be new music from this ridiculous lineup...I want those drugs.

I'm coming to terms with the end of the Buckingham era of Fleetwood Mac. I welcome new music as I always do from this band. Time and BHTM I to this day still enjoy. I'm just very happy to get last years Fleetwood Mac's album only wished Stevie was on it.

Not sure what barriers there would be to new music from the new FM. They may be ridiculous, but they are talented and skilled songwriters, some of whom have worked productively together before.

Hahahaha :)

Well you have said repeatedly in the past how much you despise Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers influence on Stevie's solo music so I'm kind of bewildered why you would welcome further collaboration between Stevie and a Heartbreaker.

No drugs this time. And I don’t think it’s that likely. Maybe 40 to be 50 percent. Lindsey was what stopped Stevie from recording. Mike Campbell’s urge to be creative and Stevie’s love of writing songs over MCs tracks are what give me the most hope remember right now.

I am curious about new music. Heartbreakers or not.

There was one member of the band who was interested in making new music, and he was disposed of.

MODS: this is a thread discussing post-rumours era band advanntages, so should be moved to post-rumours.


otherwise you get people like me and others who have no interest in the Lindsey-less FM coming in these threads and basically sabotaging your nice positive discussions.

a huge sense of betrayal the other 4 inflicted on one of their own is too painful for us to consider anything being positive about this.

So you think threads that discuss Lindsey's departure as a negative thing belong in this forum, but ones that see his departure as a positive thing belong in another forum?

I really don't care either way, but you just admitted your intention to troll, which seems nonproductive, and unlike you.

no.

threads that discuss Rumours 5 or any version of them that have *just* 4 or more members of Rumours 5 should be here. whether posts are positive or negative about Lindsey's firing is irrelevant, it makes sense to have those here.

but posts discussing what to expect from the post-Rumours 5 band should be in the post-Rumours forum. it's pretty simple. just look at these threads where y'all would like to constructively discuss what to expect and you are looking forward to it, and then you have people who are jumping in disrupting your discussion and screaming "traitors!" every 5 minutes. i'd think you would appreciate not having to deal with that?

:lol: you know me way better than that. i don't troll. i express my opinion. and my opinion right now is that the band betrayed Lindsey, after everything he's done for them over decades, and they should not be rewarded for that.

i like Neil Finn. i would love to see how his collaboration with Lindsey would look like.

but if i see Mick Fleetwood in "FM" concert right now, i would gag.

Just so we're all on the same page... (tl;dr version: money, money, money)

Rolling Stone, 3/15/17:

Do you want to make a new record with them?
I don't think we'll do another record. If the music business were different, I might feel different. I don't think there's any reason to spend a year and an amazing amount of money on a record that, even if it has great things, isn't going to sell. What we do is go on the road, do a ton of shows and make lots of money. We have a lot of fun. Making a record isn't all that much fun.

London Evening Standard, 1/17/17

She said: “If the five of us were to get together to make a record it would take a year, which is what it always takes us.

"It would be a whole year of recording, then press, then rehearsal, and by the time we got back onto the road, it would be heading towards the second year, and I don’t know whether at this time it’s better for us just to do a big tour.”

...

Nicks said: “It’s every single penny we make divided by five, so the expense of making a record, which is huge, and then to get back on tour ... we are not 40.

"We have to take that into consideration — how long can we do tours that are three-hour shows? Would you rather spend a year in the studio or get back on the road? I think that the band would choose to tour.”

Nicks, who is focusing on her solo career, is also reluctant to make new music.

She said: “I don’t write as many songs any more because with the internet, the way that kids listen to music, all the streaming, and the fact that if they’re very savvy, if they want to get it and not pay for it, they can.

jeets2000, I'm just speculating here, but reading between the lines, it seemed like Stevie was unhappy recording Say You Will, specifically with Lindsey, and so she's gone out of her way to not record with him again. However, probably due to wanting to keep some peace so they could continue to tour together, she never says to the press "I don't want to make another album with FM because I hate recording with Lindsey."

Touring with him is one thing; recording new music with him is another matter entirely, apparently. And I'm not saying one person is right here. According to Mick, Lindsey tried very hard to be extra patient when working with Stevie on Tango, and she asked him to work with her on Twisted, her song from Twister, so things had been good between them for a while. But something seems to have changed after Say You Will, and she just doesn't want to record with him anymore. And instead of saying anything negative about recording with Lindsey, she listed other reasons why she didn't record with FM.

I understand, and your honesty about how you're feeling is fine and appropriate. I just hope you realize when I or anyone else express enthusiasm or interest in the upcoming FM tour, it's not a dig at Lindsey or his superfans. And by superfans, I mean people who love him but are angry at the other members. I'm a fan of Lindsey, but obviously not to the degree of other people here. I'm not happy he is gone from FM, but I am intrigued by what Mike and Neil might bring to FM.

Anyway, glad to have this dialogue.

except, now it looks like they are the same thing. she first made sure they don't record together, now she made sure they don't tour together either - if "him or me" story is true.

when people express that enthusiasm my initial reactions are grouped as follows:

1. some people don't distinguish wrong from right.
2. fans who are enthusiastic are fans of pre- or post-rumours 5 incarnations of the band primarily, and not just the classic 5 version, so i understand their interest, as long as they acknowledge the betrayal.
3. fans who are enthusiastic are Stevie-first fans and they couldn't care less who else is in the band. some of them might actually be rejoicing since some of them were always griping against Lindsey in the first place, and she finally managed to push him out. they don't care about what's wrong what's right, as long as they don't need to see Lindsey ever again. :laugh:

I hear what you're saying, but it's a bit of a slippery slope to begin interpreting what she "really" meant versus what she's repeatedly said in the press about albums not selling like they used to, their original fans no longer buying new music, and perhaps most telling of all, her saying to the London Evening Standard that she doesn't write much anymore because "the internet" and music piracy.

Someone earlier in this thread definitively said "Lindsey was what stopped Stevie from recording." All I'm saying is that that is not what she's said when asked recently. Her response has always been about money in some way.

Being a huge fan of logic and accuracy I agree. This is a post rumours line up. But then again the technically should’ve been post rumors too.

Also in this transition phase your gonna have the majority of people coming to the rumours forum still, it’s just force of habit.

I understand your pain and I really do feel for you, but I would assume you of all people would be able to see this glass half full. Lindsey is free. Nothing but endless solo albums and initimate tours. Even the “poor Lindsey has been bettayed” angle of this can be a huge positive. He’s gonna have so many betrayal songs. And he’ll be unchained to finally be truly honest about his feelings of this band without the tired old keep your mouth shut to keep the peace.

thank you!

if you read my opening post in the Lindsey forum (thoughts about firing) you will see that's exactly what my thoughts are - i can see tons of advantages for both him and his fans and his legacy if he doesn't waste a second of his time on FM anymore.

but i can also feel a huge betrayal he must be experiencing right now, as posts from his family make very clear.

i can also mourn what could have been - for all the fans around the world who will now not get to see LB solo, or BuckVie even, and for musicians in his band who were probably counting on double income in the same amount of time but have now been robbed of it. you know, people who are working musicians and not spoiled millionaires they work for, and who have no health insurance or retirement funds because they live of their touring incomes. and i can judge people for not distinguishing what is wrong and what is right.

I’m well aware of her saying all that. And she said the same things in 2009 and ended up making 2 solo albums in the next 5 years.

she’s also talked about recording Joan of Arc during the tango reissue press. I think this goes back to the making of Say You will. Stevie for whatever reason swore off Lindsey forvever after that experience.

Again I’m not saying this is very likely. Just more likely. I think it’s more dependent on how badly everyone else wants to record. If MC wants to make an album with Fleetwood Mac and they all really enjoy working together this tour, I think an album could very well happen.

DING, DING, DING, DING, DING!!!!! We have a winner!

I truly believe that ANYONE who is enthusiastic to see this tour - those people are primarily Stevie fans. Actually rejoicing because the old hag is the boss now, and kicked that "mean man" to the curb.

Wrong. What is with the need to use absolutes and capitalse “anyone”. Your right ,I’m sure maybe half of the people excited are Stevie First Fans. But the other half are just excited for the reasons Elle already mentioned but you failed
To include in The quote .

The more accurate statement would be anyone as upset as you about this situation just has an unreasonable level of unneeded hatred for Stevie Nicks and somehow think her perceived attorcities outdo all the real atrocities going on in the world.

Aren’t you supposed to be a fan of the bob Welch era. If you thought rationally at all and didn’t see the world through firery “must hate the goat” lenses, you might be mildly excited at a Bob welch song popping up in the set. your mind doesn’t go there.


By the way l, just let me clarify I’m directing my comment at being overly hateful towards Stevie Nicks only at Homer. Not accusing anyone else.

I can distinguish right from wrong, and being curious or interested in how FM will sound without Lindsey and with Mike and Neil does not make me a bad person, or mean that I can't distinguish right from wrong.

As long as 2 of the 3 singer/songwriters are in the band, I am interested in the band. Whatever the combination- Stevie and Christine, Lindsey and Christine, or Lindsey and Stevie. I didn't throw a fit when Lindsey left, I didn't throw a fit when Stevie left, I didn't throw a fit when Christine left, and I didn't throw a fit when Christine wanted to continue recording with the band but Lindsey said no, because she wouldn't tour with them. But we don't talk about that, even though possibly some Christine fans felt betrayed by Lindsey for refusing to let her record with them.

I can't find one post where anyone said they're happy Lindsey is out of the band. Please feel free to correct me but I haven't seen any posts where a Stevie fan expressed joy about his absence from the tour.

THAT is an excellent point.

I'm sure you're completely correct.:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

look, we can all remember how you behaved when you first joined. i'm glad that you are polite and constructive discussant these days, but like people didn't forget BuckVie was supposed to be FM album, some of us still remember that you are Stevie-fan first, no matter how much you scream that you so LOVE THEM ALL!

Lindsey and Chris - you know - 2 out of 3 FM songwriters! - played twice right on your doorstep last year. yet both times you found the reason not to see them.

i think you can distinguish right from wrong, and i'm happy for the world we live in that you can. but you are Stevie-first fan and so in this particular case you don't care about the right or wrong. and that's fine. but i don't understand why the need to hide that, tbh.

it's running rampant in many SN groups on facebook.

:xoxo::xoxo::xoxo:

They're already choosing songs to fill the slots Lindsey's songs have left vacant. I think I even read "When I see you again" as one of the options. Whatsamattababy!!!!! :laugh::laugh::laugh:

I think the happiness because Lindsey's gone is clouding their vision.

As someone whose "favorite band member" has been Christine, Lindsey, and Stevie at some point or another, I'm beyond disappointed. Mick's always been greedy, but I used to somewhat find him likeable due to his charm. I still cannot believe he did this. And I'm crushed about Christine. How on Earth did she agree to this, after BuckVie?? I guess her loyalty lies more with Mick than Lindsey (and I think her loyalty is to Mick, not Stevie).

You're right, I didn't drive 2 1/2 hours or 4 hours to see Lindsey and Christine in concert last year. I also didn't drive 90 minutes to see Stevie in concert, either.

I've never screamed I love them all. I do like the 3 singer/songwriters a lot. It is possible to like all three. Why wouldn't I like Lindsey? Go Your Own Way is THE FM anthem, in my mind. If that FM release had said "Stevie Nicks will not be touring with us in 2018 and we want to welcome Sheryl Crow in her place," I would have the exact same reaction. "Wow, I can't believe they kicked her out, but they must have had a reason. I wonder what Sheryl will sing? Will she record with them?" And it's not that I'm a Sheryl Crow fan, either, but yeah, I would still follow the band to see where this went.

See, I know they're all rich, or at least CM, LB, and SN are, so I'm not sad for or worried about them. They're going to be just fine no matter what. Lindsey no longer touring with FM is a bummer for the fans, but there's no need to be sad for him because he can continue his solo recording and touring, which is great for the fans. Same thing with Stevie, if she had been fired from FM, why would anyone be worried about her? She'd be just fine and could record and tour on her own.

Ah, well see, I'm not a member of any SN groups on Facebook, so I wouldn't know that.

They don't need to replace Lindsey's songs--they could just allow the icon to ramble on endlessly instead about fabric and such :D

Exactly how I feel, I’m not a Lindsey fan I’m not a Stevie fan, I just love this band.
I have since 1967.
I am sorry Lindsey has gone but like you I’d feel the same if it were Stevie.
Long live Fleetwood Mac in whatever form, the bands bigger than one person
(accept Mick maybe, but then it is his band)

blahblahblahblahblahPrinceblahblahblahblahblhaTomblahblahblahblahblahMIkeblahblahblabhablhChristineb lahblabhMEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEELBAHBLAHBLAHBL AHBLAHBLAHB

Or...any number of a million reasons that have nothing whatsoever to do with any of those three categories. Perhaps some just aren't going to go into a frenzy over a band that has nothing to do with our real lives; no matter how much we might enjoy their product. 99.5% of us will never, ever meet any of these people and the level of hysteria a few are showing is really disturbing. This is a band who has ALWAYS had lineup changes and those unwilling to give the new personnel of the various versions a chance missed out on lots of good music along the way. Calm down people. No band, sports team or celebrity will ever matter one iota in the parts of your life that really matter and the way that people here are at each other's throats over a bunch of pampered millionaires that none of us know is getting out of control. :xoxo:

And she doesn't care! For the past few years, half the reviews I read about her say, "just shut up and sing a damned song. Quit telling your damned stories, that no one wants to hear, anyway!"