BTM- My Thoughts
 

Hi everyone. I've decided to make this thread because I have just purchased BTM and after listening to it several times, I am extremely perplexed as to why it is generally disliked. I'm going to go song by song...feel free to post your own opinions on them.

Skies The Limit- Title is gramatically incorrect :laugh: Seriously though, the song itself is a great opener and shows that Christine's music was terribly overlooked in this period and it was fantastic. So glad it's on the VBO.

Love Is Dangerous- Here, I began to hear the harmonies of all four vocalists making for a great chorus that was very catchy and stayed stuck in my head. A fun song and Stevie actually sounds OK here in her parts.

In The Back Of My Mind- Listening to this at night kinda freaked me out, but otherwise it is a perfect example of the diversity of FM's music and was quite fun to listen to.

Do You Know- The first three words of this song hit me like a ton of bricks. Wow...the harmony. This is one of my favorite on the album. The chorus is also beautiful in itself. Kudos to Christine and Rick again.

Save Me- Christine is at it again with her catchy fun songs. It was here where I really began to see that Christine was in top form and this song is no exception. I love the "I'm runnin for cover baby..."

Affairs Of The Heart- Stevie's first song...and from the first line I knew it was going to be a doozy. She really sounded flat and nasally in these and basically all of her contributions to the album. Now the song and music themselves are quite appealing...I think I would want to hear 1979 Stevie sing this.

When The Sun Goes Down- Yee Haw! Another fun tune that really caught my attention for its unique southern style and I loved every moment of it. Thanks again to Rick and Billy for bringing these types of songs to FM!

Behind The Mask- Oh yes! Christine with darker songwriting. What do you get? An awesome song that conjures up feelings of Morning Rain and Brown Eyes with her soulful brooding voice. Well done again Christine!

Stand On The Rock- This one didn't strike me as another great tune but had its merits nonetheless. "When it comes back around..." Hearing again the melding of voices to produce that sound was excellent. Seems like this would make a fun live song.

Hard Feelings- The album continues flowing smoothly along and we get a nice bittersweet piece about well...hard feelings. Very good job on it. Love the vocal.

Freedom- Stevie's best, if you could call it that, on the album. To me, it is a little less repetitive than Affairs of the Heart, but still has that flat quality. Still listenable though!

When It Comes To Love- This I didn't like as much. Maybe the lyric "You got to treat it special..." turned me off. Christine's voice is still so on though and I like the "looove" at the end of the chorus line.

The Second Time- Ok...maybe it would be best to keep my comments to myself...why not just leave it off the album? Stevie was not singing well here, but this certainly didn't spoil the album!

Overall, the album was an experience I had truly not expected at all! After hearing so much bad, I was so surprised to see all the good that was really in it. So what if Stevie was bad? Does that make the whole thing a joke? No way! Rick, Billy, and Christine made a great effort and I truly love this album for its unique set of songs, harmonies, songwriting itself, and its running order was quite smooth in my opinion, very cohesive and listenable. Now, I just can't wait to get Time!

Shamus :)

It's not bad
 

Nah, it's not bad. :distress:

I LOVE Save Me, it's my fave song on the album. I have to admit, I don't listen to it THAT much, but I do break it out once in a while...granted, I got it pretty recently.

I like the melody on the line "when it comes to love". Also, I know what ya mean about ITBOMM, it's kinda sceery/freaky. LOL

I'd say this is a very good review of this album. In fact I couldn't have said it better myself.

As for Time, well Best of Luck with that. Again Christine's compositions are nice, but there's not much Mac here.

Get your hands on the alternate versions & outtakes from BTM...it took me 12 years to hear how muddy the production of the album was.

Rick Vito's "Intuition" & "Got No Home" and Billy Burnette's "Victim Of Love" are better than anything else on the album (with the exception of "In The Back Of My Mind" which is one of my top 5 all-time/any-incarnation greatest songs of Fleetwood Mac), yet they were left off the album...and "The Second Time" was included; talk about injustices!!

Even the alternate takes of "Affairs Of The Heart" & "Save Me" make the album versions pale by comparison.

I used to really love all but one song from BTM...then 12 years after the album came out, I heard the alternate takes & outtakes...changed my whole attitude about the album as a whole.

That was a great review of BTM. I agree with much of what you said. I think Stevie's songs are bad on this album, but Chris & Billy more than make up for it. I LOVE the title track & When The Sun Goes Down. Save Me, the 2 Chris/Billy duets & Billy's other songs are all excellent. And, ChiliD is right about those outtakes. In my opinion, Rick really got the shaft here. All 3 of those Rick/Billy outtakes should have ended up on the album.

Where can we get the 3 outtakes?

Are these sold on E-bay chili?

If you really have to spend $$ to get them, I would imagine they're SOMEWHERE on eBay. :shrug:

However, being as how Fleetwood Mac fans are generally the generous types, occasionally someone will have them on their site to download for free. :nod:

Or, send me a PM with your email address that will accept large email attachments (such as an mp3) ;)

There is an entire CD titled, The Other Side Of The Mask. The outtakes are on there. There are 14 songs on this boot in all. There are more versions of other BTM tracks, including a real cool version of the title track, Behind The Mask. It's just Chris singing with drums only. The whole thing has pristine sound, too. If anyone is interested in the entire CD, just send me a private message.

If there is something on this album that i like than it is "Do you know". Other quiet charming tracks are Behind the mask and when the sun goes down and When it comes to love. All the rest was a waste of time. But they couldn't do better. We have to accept that, perhaps we should start a thread for Time album.
Then we will read that it can go worse. (i asume)

Will

I disagree. BTM had some tunes that I thought were just as good as anything Fleetwood Mac had ever done. "In The Back Of My Mind" especially. This is a CLASSIC Fleetwood Mac tune by Billy. Apparently, the band thought so, too, since they made it their set opener on the 1990 tour.

The only thing that would've made BTM better than it was, was to let Rick have a little more room on the album. Replace "The Second Time" & "Stand On The Rock" with "Got No Home" and "Intuition" and I'd even have bet that "Got No Home" would've been a top 40 single!

Sorry, to see you disagree, the album is just not good enough.
I didnt' say it was bad, but they could do better.
Just check them stuff of today, Billy aswell as Rick can do better.
Billy proved That on "TIME"

Will

Sorry, still disagree.

Billy's tunes on Time, to me, didn't quite reach the level he had on Behind The Mask. Billy's two tunes on Time sounded more like tunes he would do on a solo album; whereas, all of his contributions to Behind The Mask, however, sound like "Fleetwood Mac" songs.

I've said this before, but I was beyond thrilled when 'Behind The Mask' was released because it had much more of a rock and roll edge to it, than 'Tango.'
As much as I love 'Tango,' it's pure, glimmery, pop ear-candy... so 'BTM' was a nice, rock & blues antitidote to that.

But the overall sound of the production has always left a bit to be desired.
I can't help but think of how much better the album would have been if Richard Dashut had been at the helm. His production on "Paper Doll," and the 'Time' album are top-notch.

I guess it's not surprising that "Affairs Of The Heart" and, especially, "Freedom," are my two favorite songs on the album. I often think people expect Stevie to always repeat the sound of her previous tunes, and when she doesn't, they're disappointed (and conversely, when she does, they're disappointed! *lol*)... and I tend to think that's one of the biggest reasons her contributions to this album, and 'Tango,' are so routinely knocked.

I definitely agree with chiliD though, the alternate mix of "Affairs" is much better, and should have been used.

My other favorite songs are "Save Me" (love, love, LOVE this one), "In The Back Of My Mind" (they opened the one and only Mac concert I've ever seen with it, and to this day, I can remember the chills and excitement I felt when it began), "Love Is Dangerous," "When The Sun Goes Down," and "Behind The Mask."

"Hard Feelings" is good too... though I still think it was a weak choice for a single. And I like "The Second Time," but I think it needed a more gentle vocal... something along the lines of "Goodbye Baby."

For me, the two weakest songs on the album... the ones that often get the ol' skiparoo... are "Do You Know" (which i think is as bland and boring, as it is pretty), and "When It Comes To Love."

I used to dislike "Sky's The Limit" too, but I've since grown to really appreciate that one. :)

Overall, it's a terrific album, but with a couple adjustments, it could have been even better.

BINGO!!!! :nod:

taste
 

We can't discusse human taste, BTM has lovely and less lovely songs.

Everybody talks about add.mixes, pre-recordings, bootlegs and more. Here in Europe, Africa, Mid East, Australia,..... we don't know nothing

Through the last 20 years we've been totally ignored by FM. Thanks to the internet, it's possible to communicate with other people all over the world.
For us it's - mostely- just not possible to discusse several options concerning all these albums.
For me, that means, my opinion is related to my taste. I was just not thrilled by BTM, in some way "TIME" was even better.

But that is my meaning, i hope you understand,,
Will

Hi Will... I can definitely understand where you're coming from.
And trust me, I know how you feel. Before I found the internet, I was the one and only person I knew who was a huge Fleetwood Mac fan.
So I was almost entirely clueless that any of this stuff existed.

It wasn't until 1990, that I even knew anything about unreleased demos circulating, and I only found that out because I happened to respond to an ad I saw in the back of Rolling Stone.
The guy said he was selling rare Fleetwood Mac and Stevie Nicks songs, and for a self-addressed stamped envelope, he'd send out the list of what he had in his collection.
I was expecting to see soundtrack and b-side stuff like "Sleeping Angel," and "Cool Water," but I was still curious to see if he had anything i didn't, so I responded.

When I received his list, I was FLOORED when I read titles for songs I had never even heard of... "She Loves Him Still," "The Dealer," and on and on. In fact, I was actually really skeptical that this stuff was even on the up & up, so I didn't bother ordering anything!

When Marty created The Ledge in 1997, and I had the opportunity to actually converse with other fans, I felt really out of the loop to find that there were dozens and dozens of songs I had never heard, or even heard of.

Trust me, if we left it up to hearing about these things thru the band, we'd all still be in the dark... so i'm extremely grateful for the huge internet fan community, and all the generous people who help us all expand our collections on a continual basis.

Will, the 'Behind The Mask' alternate takes, etc., are sometimes posted to download on one site or another... so keep your eyes peeled.
And if I notice anyone posting them, I'll definitely let you know here. I think you'd enjoy them. :)

Hello Will!!!

The alt. takes for the BTM stuff are a must. I would send you mine, but the great comp. crash of 2001 deleted them from my hard drive. So, sorry!!!!

Stevie's alternate "Affairs of the Heart" is just so much better production wise. It is almost like, "what were they thinking!!!" :laugh:

Happy Hunting!!!!

I would love to hear Lindsey redo "Freedom." I always thought that song had potential, but the production just killed it.

Just wanna say a big "HELLO" to SteveMacD!

It's about time you worked your way here after all these years. The AMFM newsgroup getting a bit much for you these days? :laugh:

The newsgroup used to be pretty good, but it's gone steadily downhill in the past year. The Ledge is to blame! Once I found the Ledge, why would I want to fool with the newsgroup(although I still check it daily):laugh:

Ditto.

:blob2:

Thanks for your thoughts everyone! I guess I just wanted to get my point across that this is NOT as bad an album as it is made out to be, and I see that some people agree.

Now...to hunt down those outtakes!

Shamus:)

(Just realizing I'm beginning to repeat things...)

Thanks all!

Yeah, the AMFM is pretty dead now. The big reason I came to the Ledge, though, was because of the Peter Green situation. I hadn't heard anything in a while, and was a bit concerned. In any event, it's nice to see so much discussion on all the incarnations.

I already tried to hunt some on the internet, didn't found anything yet.

But i will, (do) you'll know
Will

I was wondering how this could have happened or why they would choose to release something that could be done better? Does anyone have any thoughts on this? I could be wrong but I kind of equate a less polished sound with the Then Play On album. Is this what your trying to describe the BTM as sounding like?

I realize the recording technology had vastly improved from Then Play On 1969 to Behind The Mask 1990 but I really like the less polished sound of Then Play On. Maybe this didn't work on BTM but on Then Play On it gave the recording a sort of 'live' feel and dates the recording to the sound of 1969.

BTM
 

I just watched the Tango video and was thinking what a good job Rick Vito did! He really rocked and for only a couple of days to prepare. His and Billy B. contibution was greatly appreciated. I have listened to this cd many many times. In the back of your mind I thought was a billant song. Christine was a great as ever. She has never really gotten the notoriety that she deserves. If you think about it Stevie wasn't doing all that well. I mean the really bad incident that happened with Lindsey. I don't think she was happy at all with her self at that time. It just wasn't her Stevie work that was being produced. She obviously didn't like her singing or she wouldn't of had so much effects added to her voice on most of her tracks. And especially on the concert video. OMG that was dredful! But over all the BTM cd was a great album. What happened to Rick Vito?? Or Billy Burnette? You know for being such a MACie I never heard of the Time album????????? Can someone fill me in??????

D~ :nod:

We're not talking about "polished" less or more. We're talking about a bad mix & a production style that steamroll over the little sonic surprises we had come to expect from Fleetwood Mac albums. As for why FM chose to release it, they released it because *they* liked it & the work Greg Ladanyi did on it.

Re: BTM
 

Rick Vito: go to Official Rick Vito website

Billy Burnette: go to Official Billy Burnette website

The Time album came out in October 1995 AFTER the band had completed their 15 month tour.
The personnel for the tour was:
Mick Fleetwood: drums/percussion
John McVie: bass
Billy Burnette: guitar, vocals
Dave Mason: guitar vocals
Bekka Bramlett: vocals
Steve Thoma: keyboards, background vocals

The personnel on the album was:
Mick, John, Billy, Dave, Bekka and Christine McVie.
with Michael Thompson playing guitar on Christine's songs only...no Dave Mason on her tunes. Steve Thoma played keyboards on the non-Christine tunes.

Duh why didn't I think of that.... THe Billy B. in't cpming up. But will look... Thanks

Oops, sorry, wrong url...here's the correct one.

Official Billy Burnette site

I also corrected the link in my original post, too.

Web site
 

Hey thanks!
Interesting~ I didn't realize that they were so active. I mean being so caught up in the present mac..
Rock On~

And who knew the BILLIONS of times that we've heard the Chevy Like a Rock commercial, that we were hearing Rick!

Rick's tune "Exotica By Night" was played in a bar scene in one episode of "West Wing", too!

:thumbsup:

Christine McVie just got better with age...I love Over My Head, You Make Loving Fun, Brown Eyes, etc. I also enjoy Love in Store and Hold Me, but thought they were a little too, I don't know, more cream than coffee. But her contributions to Tango in the Night and Behind the Mask were the best things about both albums.

I noticed two thing that made me wonder about this:
1) By Tango, she was co-writing with her then-husband Eddie Quintela.

2) Tango and Mask came out after her 1984 album.

Little Lies, Isn't It Midnight, Everywhere, Save Me, As Long As You Follow, and Behind the Mask are some of her most confident material and run the gamut, from polished pop perfection to sublime. As much as I like her earlier stuff, there just seems to be a confidence in her later songs I don't sense from before. Does anyone else notice this, and if so, what do you attribute the change to?

I would agree about her songs from 1987-current are great and have got much more prolific in many ways. I think what I like most is Lindsey's influence on her songs . He brings out so much. I can't wait to hear the tracks that have been recorded for the new release.

While I agree about Lindsey, BLY, I think Christine's songs on BTM are just as good, if not better than her stuff on Tango. I think the combination of writing with her husband and having more confidence is why her material on Tango and BTM are so good. I am very curious about Christine's writing now, since her divorce. I really disliked Temporary One, but that was just one song.

I must repectfully disagree. Whilst Save Me and Skies the Limit are written in the same vein as Everywhere and Little Lies, I find them to be a little too formulaic in their reliance on the hook. Perhaps I find them 'cheap' immitations due to the poor production style (also the silly 'wooshing' sound effects on Behind The Mask ruin the song a bit). Overall I personally prefer her earlier Fleetwood Mac material. I think she worked harder on her songs earlier in her career and... I don't know; 1971-74 and even white album-Tusk, I just find them to be a bit earthier. I think she definitely grew in confidence as a writer and reached a stage where she knew she could follow a formula and knock out a hit relatively easily. My recollection is Behind The Mask was considered to be short of a catchy song so she just knocked out Skies The Limit really quickly at the last minute.

I was excited when she recently (two years ago) suggested her new songs were a return to the sound of her earlier material.