why are SN fans so bitter about FM?
 

i'm really confused.

SN has had a great solo career. she has been revered as a rock legend. she seems so happy lately, on a very successful tour with another legendary woman rocker. her tour seems to be everything her fans have been dreaming of for years and decades.

so why do her fans sound so bitter towards the rest of FM, and towards other fans?

Hmmm, maybe posters like secondhandchain and homer can answer why they say the things they say about Stevie...

I think you know why. But it's good to start a thread and get those reasons out, I guess, especially since FM fans have nothing else to do but complain and shout in frustration.

Stevie fans are protective of her. They sense anger coming from the band fans who are, righty or wrongly, pinning all of the blame for no new FM music on her. Most Stevie fans wouldn't be disappointed if she left the band for good and continued to do her own thing. Band fans want the band to be more than an oldies troupe reliving former glories over and over again, less imaginatively each time. If this means as a foursome, a certain subsection of fans (myself included) are happy to see the back of her.

Stevie works hard in both contexts. She's not lazy. But with FM she isn't generating anything anymore. It's all posture and posing these days, retelling and reselling the same yarns.

I am not bitter at all. "My girl" is out there doing what she loves most and the critics are raving about her concerts! The audiences are thrilled, and she looks overjoyed and sounds wonderful. I couldn't be happier actually.

Everyone should get to do whatever they want to do. As long as Stevie is happy, I am happy too.

Because they are self absorbed just like her and should be turn into fairy dust and thrown down straight back into the darkness.

Bitter.I may sound bitter on anything.See my post 223 in http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showthread.php?t=56571 thread as I said about all of Mac.

We are lucky to have all of them alive............................................................................................... ..................................

sorry, should have said "some" fans. always wrong to generalize.

you've been nothing but wonderful to everyone, thanks for all that you find and share! :xoxo:

Stevie's happy now, sure. Just you watch. When one of them eventually kicks the bucket, her tune is going to go from "Album? Albums don't sell, who wants an album? Let's tour instead" to "Oh, it's such a shame we never got to make another album, the five of us. Would've been such a nice ending to a long rock and roll fantasy tale."

Same reason she complained and complained about how albums aren't for her anymore and then boom, out comes IYD and 24KG. Her stories change so much and so often even a perfect historian couldn't get a proper timeline of events from her.

I've been a LONG time fan of hers. But she begged Chris to come back and we all were overjoyed that there would be a new album. She changes the reasons why she won't do it depending on the day. "albums don't sell" "I don't care if they sell". It's annoying and I'm really bummed out that we won't get the five together for one more. I really don't want to hear Rhiannon for the five millionth time. What I love about this band is their creativity in the studio. I'm really bummed out that she is doing this. Sorry.

I'm not bitter at all about FM. What I am bitter about is all the shade thrown at Stevie by some people in this forum over the absence of a new FM album. As if she holds the reins - nope, that's Mick and Lindsey. They could have released that damn album two years ago. It's not Stevie's fault they're holding out for her. She's made it pretty clear that she has no desire to participate in a new album. It takes too long. It's excruciating (I imagine) dealing with the band politics in the studio, the nitpicking over pronouns, and the subsequent label negotiations. It isn't fun making an album with FM, as she has mentioned more than couple times recently. Too much business and not enough art.

I'd love a new FM album, with or without Stevie. Like many of you, I feel a bit of disappointment that we aren't likely to see one. Unlike many of you, I've accepted it and moved on to find enjoyment in what *is* happening instead of obsessing over what isn't.

I am also not bitter. Just because Stevie is my favourite member doesn't mean I don't love the other 4. I'm actually really proud of Stevie for going out and doing what makes her happy with this solo tour. While I would love a new album with all 5, I understand Stevie's reluctance. However, if the other 4 want to go ahead and release an album that's fine with me; I would love to hear new music. And while I personally wouldn't attend a show without Stevie there, I have no problem with a small 4 piece tour for those who would like to see it. The only thing I'm not fond of is the outright name calling against Stevie (or any of the members for that matter). My only wish is that the proposed 2018 world tour will be a mix of greatest hits and deep cuts. This formula has certainly worked for the 24 Karat Gold Tour. Hopefully, something will come about in the near future that will make all fans happy.

I consider myself a fan of both, which is strangely uncommon in this divisive fandom, and I am really satisfied right now.
I think that being a fan of both of them gives me much more enjoyment since when the band isn't active Stevie's solo career is, instead of feeling like one takes something away from the other, and alternating between the two makes things more interesting.

I'm with sisternightroad- I'm a fan of FM, especially the Rumours line up and the Behind the Mask lineup. But I'm a fan of Stevie, a fan of Christine, and to a lesser degree, a fan of Lindsey, too. And when I say fan, I mean of their work. Stevie has the advantage here, as she's been the most prolific of the three. My thought has always been, when/if a member has success as a solo artist, it keeps the name Fleetwood Mac in the public eye, which is a good thing. Virtually every review of Stevie's latest album and tour starts off with "Fleetwood Mac member Stevie Nicks..." and the same thing goes for Lindsey and Christine. Her current tour is such a success, she (and the Pretenders, of course) have added 20 more cities, and to me, that bodes well for FM when they do release an album or go back on the road again.

I am also a huge fan of both and have attended solo shows of the singers and have their albums. A true miracle happened and Christine came back to the band after 16 years and performed a HUGE world tour. Even then people started to attack them for performing too much and not recording a new album. People forgot about the miracle and when a miracle happens sit back and enjoy it. The biggest miracle would be for these 5 members to record an album together. This has not happened since the 1980's. For what ever reason, Stevie is dragging her feet. But even worse IMHO, she is not honest with her fans. Does anyone really believe the reason she does not want to do the album is because it might not be good? That is an insult to the rest of the band and Christine. So there is a reason why there is a bitterness towards Stevie in this forum. She is preventing a miracle from happening. The Stevie (only) fans have reacted in attacking the rest of the band. I see the band as innocent and just wanting to record an album. As real or true fans we should all want that. I do not see the band touring without Stevie. I think that was a statement to get Stevie's attention to come back to the band. The band is older and they travel in lavish ways in private jets, etc. The band playing small theaters could not travel and support their touring lifestyle. In addition, to practice and tour only to come off the tour and rehearse and tour again is a bit strange. Maybe the band would showcase their new songs while Stevie hides backstage. If the Stevie ONLY fans do not like discussing Fleetwood Mac there are other forums devoted only to Stevie's solo career.

I really think it's naive to think that Stevie can put a stop to the rest of the band, she is only one fifth of the band and I doubt that she alone has the power to force the other four fifths to do anything they don't want to.
However I'm curious, don't you consider The Dance a group effort? It's one of my favourite periods of this band.
I don't think Stevie is necessarily dishonest, unless it's bout being dishonest with herself. In the end she didn't say that the album wouldn't be good, she said that it wouldn't sell, which is different, and actually the more an album is good, the more frustrating it is if it doesn't sell.
I also think that at this point in their lives we as real and true fans should be happy with whatever the band members want to give to us, they already gave us very much and deserve in their older years to do what they want at the time they want.
I have missed these Stevie fans attacking the rest of the band, where has it happened?

Reaction
 

My reaction and opinion:
Lindsey had been discussing in several interviews his work as a Producer/arranger on her songs (such as Dreams). I think that has offended her fan base, and maybe Stevie herself. Complaints have surfaced about too many "overdubs" or "over production." Somehow this is getting perceived as "taking credit" for the success of her songs. Stevie clearly has the creative idea (lyrics, melody, etc.), and Lindsey has always fashioned her music into a "song" on FM projects. But Lindsey has never received any song writing credit with Stevie (the two notable exceptions being Frozen Love and The Chain). I get the impression that Stevie wants to prove that she can have successful songs without Lindsey (again, my perception and my opinion).

From Lindsey's perspective, as Richard Dashut acknowledged, Lindsey never received Producer status until later in his FM tenure, even though he was calling the shots. The fallout with Ken Caillat may have come from him attempting to claim more credit than he was due on the musical production on Rumours.

So this appears to be a lot of people "explaining" their role in the success of FM music and legacy, as well as (perhaps) some "revisionist" history. It is truly unfortunate. As Harry Truman once said (paraphrasing), "It's amazing what can be accomplished if no one cares about who gets the credit." Admittedly, I am an LB fan (hence my moniker), but I really enjoy Stevie's songs on which Lindsey has worked (Twisted is an example). It is unfortunate that we may never have that again.

Of course she is dishonest. Can you imagine Mick Jagger telling everyone he does not want to do another Stones album because it might not be good. Just imagine the reaction from Keith Richards. Keith would have expletive words. I don't understand this need to give Stevie shelter that no other band member in any other band would get.

No, Stevie does not have the power to stop the band. But the other band members do care and value her input. They want a complete package to go on the road with. They value her artistry and want it part of this album.

Of course we are all happy with whatever the band gives us. But us fans have only dreamed of "what if" these 5 would record another album. We are on the edge of that moment. And sorry, we do have a right to feel frustrated.

Christine gave up performing 20 years ago after the Dance. Who would have dreamed that she is back touring and wants to record music with all 5 members again. This is something THEY WANT to do.

Just curious- why wouldn't you attend a show with 4 other musicians that you like and enjoy? I would see Lindsey solo, and I would see Christine solo. Why wouldn't you see Lindsey and Christine together? Why would you not see people that you admittedly enjoy.

That would be the case with many casual fans. Stevie can get about 9-10k people for her solo concerts. The Mac can get about 14-16k. If the Mac toured without Stevie, sadly there would be a small theater that probably would not be sold out. Even in solo shows neither Christine or Lindsey could sell out a theater at the peak of their career. Its sad but unfortunately its the truth. Stevie is a huge draw and I remember as a kid waiting in line for Fleetwood Mac tickets listening to "fans" say the most horrible things about the rest of the band. "No one comes to see Christine.....Stevie is so beautiful, Chris is so ugly." "I wish Lindsey did not sing so we can hear more Stevie songs." This all coming from people who would camp out to be first in line to get tickets to a Mac show.

But, again, she said that it wouldn't sell, not that it wouldn't be good. And I didn't enjoy the latest efforts of the Stones, but that's off topic.
Honestly I really don't think anyone is giving anyone shelter, in my opinion she just said something random and suddenly everyone is putting too much thought in those words.
And who said that the band is currently waiting for her or that they want to eventually tour, with or without her? We don't even have any input about their current thoughts or plans.
Nobody said we shouldn't feel frustrated, but the "THEY" doesn't exists unless we are talking about all of them.

I have a feeling we might be pleasantly surprised by possible attendances. Lindsey and Chris couldn't each draw big crowds solo as they were never big names in the way Stevie was. However, they won't be playing solo and Fleetwood Mac as a brand carries a lot of weight. Do we really think the majority of people that come to FM shows are big fans that own most of the albums? (and Stevie Nicks albums?)...of course they aren't. The majority of the people that see gigs are casual fans that own a couple of albums at most and in many cases just have a Greatest Hits disc. A lot of people will therefore still come as the Fleetwood Mac moniker is a big draw. Some might question why the 'witchy woman' isnt present but they'd still be pretty happy to hear GYOW, The Chain, Little Lies, Hold Me etc. Additionally it's the goddamned anniversary year. The media interest stemming from that alone is enough to bring in decent numbers. I can see them getting the same numbers as Stevie's shows have been getting.

Oh, I always read the L as an I. Assumed Ibfan was some sort of Eastern European name :nod:

I think she's indirectly suggested it. There was the interview she gave (which to the best of my recollection was quite terse/cold towards Fleetwood Mac and LB in particular) where she said they'd never again be able to capture the magic of the old songs (refering to Gypsy I think). I think she suggested there'd be no point trying because they could never be good together again.

I second this.

I think I may have mentioned this in a different thread before, I'm not sure. But the main draw of Fleetwood Mac for me is Stevie; however, I also really like Chris's music. I have nothing against Lindsey, I just like Stevie and Chris's music more. I guess I should mention that since I am a newer fan, I have not actually seen Fleetwood Mac live yet. I just saw Stevie for the first time on this tour. I definitely want Stevie to be there for my first time seeing the Mac. I hope this makes sense; I wasn't trying to say anything against the other members.

Because I don't like her, and think she's a ridiculous person. She's taken on this power trip now, that "I'll show them who's the boss". For the record, I used to like her, but her songwriting talent hits the skids decades ago, and her nasally, four note singing range leaves me flat, and uninspired.

The icing on the cake is that they're getting old, and someone IS going to die. Then, it's going to be too late for one last album. And guess who's fault that is? Old goat breath.

Any more questions?

Let's say you're right and Stevie is lying about why she doesn't want to record with FM. Maybe she doesn't want to say to the public "I hate working with Lindsey so much that I can't stand the thought of being trapped in a studio with him for even a week." I think that's the real reason she doesn't want to make a new album with the band, but she doesn't want to be a b!tch about it and say anything mean about him, especially to the fans.

Ultimately, it doesn't matter WHY she doesn't want to make a new record with the band, the fact is she doesn't want to and has made that clear to them. She's not dragging her feet or leading them on. They need to just finish the album themselves.

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: you do know that's exactly what she is saying to the public. right?

agree with this. as they apparently did! :thumbsup:

All that is probably true. Isn't sad though if you pay her 10 million dollars she will gladly tour with Lindsey for a year and do her hugs and kisses on stage :eek:

Thank you for your answer. Yes, you make perfect sense. And it's how you feel.

No! The real reason Stevie doesn't want to do an album with Fleetwood Mac is that she's insecure about her songwriting skills and general musicianship. She's aware Lindsey and Chris have produced a lot of music together and may have even heard some of the material. Lindsey and Chris are obviously creatively 'hot', so to speak. Stevie probably feels a bit put out that Lindsey and Chris are so close now- she's worried she'll come off looking bad like with Tango In The Night (we all know what it feels like when your two good friends spend too much time together without you). In Fleetwood Mac Stevie needs Lindsey to make her songs sound good and she's no longer happy to admit the limitations of her ability. Publicly she's saying working with Lindsey is too difficult, albums don't sell, it won't be as good as the old albums, we are better off just touring...etc etc etc.
The reality is, she probably just can't come up with the songs.

Hits the nail, dead on the head. Spot on!

There's a difference between working on an album and touring, of course. The conflict seems to be when they're in the studio, not when they're performing. I think all 5 get along fine when they're touring. And it's just as phony of Lindsey to do the hugs and kisses on stage as it is Stevie.

Fuzzy, you just don't know that. She wrote nearly all of her material for In Your Dreams, as well as 24 Karat Gold. Even if she was as insecure as you paint her out to be about her ability to write songs now, she still has plenty of old demos she could hand over to the band. But if she did that, she would still have to go into the studio with Lindsey, and she clearly doesn't want to do that. It's frustrating, I'm annoyed and disappointed too, but can't fault her for the way she feels.

If you're mad she won't record with the band, that's fine and understandable, but no need to say "she's insecure" and "worried she'll come off looking bad."

Not always- much of it is just a public show. I think for most of the tour they barely speak outside the venue.

It is just as phony of Lindsey, but he isn't the one complaining he can't work with Stevie. He's happy to grit his teeth and get on with it.

I agree with your premise, but I don't think it's jealousy.
I think her insecurity stems from the failure of 24K Gold because she really cared about that album.
Now because of that she's probably disillusioned about making new records while touring with an unexpected setlist has become a pleasant surprise and wants to do it with the Mac too.
Also I have a feeling that she thinks that the album would take a pretty long time to complete and by the time it eventually comes out and they can hit the road they'll all be more than 70 and they may lack the energy to tour an extensive tour with a 3 hours setlist.
You can record albums at any age but you can't always tour.

For all we know he is complaining about her all the time, even right now, just they don't ask him in interviews.

It depends on your definition of 'write songs'. In Your Dreams mostly came from her poetry. It takes a lot to turn a poem into a song. For In Your Dreams she had to rely on Dave to create the music and turn the lyrics into songs.

Yes, she wrote 24 Karat Gold...30+ years ago.


I think she possibly could come up with the goods- its probably just daunting for her. Chris has already brought at least 6 songs to the table and Lindsey has a big bunch. It's like her starting a 100m race with her competitors already 20 metres ahead of her; 'I've sprained my ankle', 'I didn't sleep well last night', 'I have a stomach bug', 'It's a stupid race anyway- its not worth winning'...etc

I love Stevie but I'm upset with her for not getting involved. I think that she won't do it because recording with Lindsey as a producer isn't fun for her. If he wasn't producing I don't think there'd be as much of an issue.
But the thing is, she's in a band. That's just how it is in a band, there's always conflict. It wouldn't be a band if everything was peachy. George Harrison often was really unhappy recording with The Beatles because Lennon and McCartney dominated and made him feel like a session musician. But he still showed up because it was his job.
I think Stevie holds all the cards in the band when it comes to things like this because she has way more fans than the rest of them and she knows it and they know it. That's why it's pretty ****ty of her to be putting them in this position since she doesn't want to just be a band member and do her job.
And I'm not speaking for all SN fans but the ones that are bitter about FM are just the ones who think Stevie can do no wrong and so they think everyone else is the bad guy.