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-   -   Which two albums represent Lindsey's best Fleetwood Mac work? (http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showthread.php?t=52133)

MacShadowsBall 05-31-2013 07:48 PM

Which two albums represent Lindsey's best Fleetwood Mac work?
 
Since I did one for Stevie in honor of her birthday, I thought I'd continue for Lindsey, Christine, and possibly the Pre-Rumours gang.

Pick 2 albums that you feel represent and showcases Lindsey Buckingham at his very best. :cool:

Artemis 06-01-2013 12:04 PM

Rumours and Tango, easily.

HomerMcvie 06-01-2013 12:14 PM

SYW got 3 votes, and '75 NOTHING?
That's bass ackwards!

Ulpian 06-01-2013 12:34 PM

I'm surprised at how well SYW is doing so far. I would've thought it'd have been a fight between Tusk, Rumours and TITN.
:D

gssmith 06-01-2013 12:35 PM

I voted for the white album and rumours. I love all his songs on those! Everyone of them. For Tusk and Mirage I thought his songs were by far the weakest, horrible. He did do a great job producing Stevie's songs for those albums though I guess he does get credit there. Its easy to see how jealousy tore them apart which is typical for a lot of musical relationships it seems. For Tango- Big Love is great and the tittle song is good, but the rest were just ok to blah. Even though I am a bigger Stevie fan for sure, he did carry Say You Will, but even those songs were sub par to the first two albums.

Dex 06-01-2013 12:41 PM

Rumours and '75 are flawless albums, but Tusk and SYW show Lindsey at his most unrestrained and interesting, so they get my vote. Mirage and Tango have just a touch too many clunkers for me. Sorry Oh Diane and Family Man! I know you were minor UK hits, but it's time to admit that you are just not very good songs.

MacShadowsBall 06-01-2013 12:47 PM

I'm curious about how TITN will do as it wasn't in play for Stevie and I imagine will do great for Christine. :cool:

TrueFaith77 06-01-2013 01:18 PM

Two words: Go Your Own Way

also: everything on Tusk

louielouie2000 06-01-2013 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HomerMcvie (Post 1094728)
SYW got 3 votes, and '75 NOTHING?
That's bass ackwards!

For me, Lindsey's songs from the '75 & Rumours albums are flawless... but those contributions are almost cliche and middle of the road compared to Lindsey's later works.

Mirage is Lindsey's low point, IMO. He's totally thumbing his nose at the backlash from his Tusk experiments by contributing utterly inoffensive & completely boring songs.

Tango is one of Fleetwood Mac's best albums, IMO... it's every bit as good of a pop album as Rumours & Mystery To Me. Oddly enough, when you look at the songwriters individually, they don't hold their own compared to their other albums.

In a strange twist of fate, I think Lindsey's best material is found on the 2 Mac albums where I feel Stevie's resides as well: Tusk & Say You Will. For me, those 2 albums are where Lindsey really flexes his creative muscle, and is probably most himself. Tusk is the band's masterpiece, IMO. In opposition to Mirage, I feel Say You Will is a terrible album, yet when you look at the songwriters individually, it's some of their best works of their careers.

michelej1 06-01-2013 04:55 PM

^ To me, Lindsey's Mirage work is not inoffensive. It's retro weird. For a 1982 audience, I don't think it was meant to be appealing. I think they were meant to find it odd and that it was intended to be noncommercial and uncooperative.

What Warner Bros. wanted from Lindsey was "Trouble" and he decided not to give them that and delivered cliches with a twist instead, but the subversion was less obvious (and less creative) than his Tusk oddness was.

By contrast, I think a song like "Steal Your Heart Away" is innocuous and safe. Inoffensive. Palatable in a way that I don think the Mirage offerings were ever meant to be.

The problem is, While I hear a different type of rebellion in Diane or Eyes, I think they're less complicated and original than his work on Tusk.

Michele

Dex 06-01-2013 05:07 PM

Agreed, Michele. I think people are too quick to make the leap from "I don't like this" to "Lindsey was intentionally kinda sucking" when it comes to Mirage. I think it absolutely was what he wanted to put out. The difference is that it just... wasn't very interesting.

I do have a soft spot for Book of Love though. That was the only not-Stevie Mirage song that I actually enjoyed for a good year into my Mac fandom.

elle 06-01-2013 07:28 PM

i will repeat what i already said here:

http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showpo...1&postcount=49

Quote:

Originally Posted by elle (Post 1094461)
however spectacular SHN and GYOW are (and MM, ISA, and NGBA and not half bad either ;) ), if you look at the body of work / overall creativity Lindsey was at his peak for Tusk and then again for SYW (well SYW peak was really in the late 90s).

and then again now, which started somewhere in 2010.


GypsySorcerer 06-01-2013 10:09 PM

Hmmm....

I don't think the white album represents his best work. "I'm So Afraid" is MUCH better live. "Blue Letter" is my favorite of his on the album, but he didn't write it, so.... Of course, his songs are Rumours are perfect. I think "Go Your Own Way" is their only "hit" I've never grown tired of, at one point or another. I could listen to that song 1000 times in a row, and it would still sound fresh to me.

I love and appreciate all of Lindsey's songs on Tusk. They're his most interesting batch of songs.

I don't think his songs on Mirage are as bad as some seem to think. "Empire State" isn't a favorite, but I like the rest. Even "Oh Diane." :eek:

I've always been partial to Tango. "Big Love" and the title track are great. "Caroline" has insipid lyrics, but I love the music and energy.

Lindsey's songs on SYW are much stronger than Stevie's, IMO. Lyrically, they're definitely among his best (I think "Peacekeeper" and "Red Rover" are especially poetic).

So I'm gong with SYW and Tusk. Rumours and Tango are very, very close.

Neal 06-01-2013 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Artemis (Post 1094726)
Rumours and Tango, easily.

Ditto. :thumbsup:

HomerMcvie 06-02-2013 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by louielouie2000 (Post 1094742)
Mirage is Lindsey's low point, IMO. He's totally thumbing his nose at the backlash from his Tusk experiments by contributing utterly inoffensive & completely boring songs.

Tango is one of Fleetwood Mac's best albums, IMO... it's every bit as good of a pop album as Rumours & Mystery To Me. Oddly enough, when you look at the songwriters individually, they don't hold their own compared to their other albums.

In a strange twist of fate, I think Lindsey's best material is found on the 2 Mac albums where I feel Stevie's resides as well: Tusk & Say You Will. For me, those 2 albums are where Lindsey really flexes his creative muscle, and is probably most himself. Tusk is the band's masterpiece, IMO. In opposition to Mirage, I feel Say You Will is a terrible album, yet when you look at the songwriters individually, it's some of their best works of their careers.

Mirage may not be "deep", but I'll never understand the disrespect it gets.
I LOVE Can't Go Back, Book of Love, and even Empire State!!!

Tango just sounds too 80's for me. I mean, I like it, but it doesn't sound like a BAND playing, it sounds like a computer playing the instruments. It's pop perfection, but as a musician, it leaves me cold.

Tusk is the masterpiece, but probably not to the casual fan. Rumours is the album that changed my life...I am who I am, and became who I am, all over being OBSESSED with that album, as a kid. So even though I rarely listen to it anymore, Rumours will always be my favorite.

Say You Will? Just Say You Won't. Too long, too many songs, too many songs that sound like solo songs - not FM songs. And the FM balance of Christine, gone....I think that's why they shouldn't put anything else out(other than maybe EP's).

MikeVielhaber 06-02-2013 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dex (Post 1094753)
Agreed, Michele. I think people are too quick to make the leap from "I don't like this" to "Lindsey was intentionally kinda sucking" when it comes to Mirage. I think it absolutely was what he wanted to put out. The difference is that it just... wasn't very interesting.

I do have a soft spot for Book of Love though. That was the only not-Stevie Mirage song that I actually enjoyed for a good year into my Mac fandom.

For me, Stevie's songs are the only ones I don't like (Except "Gypsy"). I'm not too high on some of Christine's ("Love in Store" and "Hold Me" are great), but they're decent. Same with "Empire State" for Lindsey. But overall I like more Lindsey songs on the album than anyone else.

Dex 06-02-2013 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeVielhaber (Post 1094792)
For me, Stevie's songs are the only ones I don't like (Except "Gypsy"). I'm not too high on some of Christine's ("Love in Store" and "Hold Me" are great), but they're decent. Same with "Empire State" for Lindsey. But overall I like more Lindsey songs on the album than anyone else.

I'm glad there's a difference of opinion, then. These songs were the product of hard work and it's reassuring that someone appreciates them. I don't think I'll ever be able to wrap my head around the idea of anyone finding Oh Diane musically compelling. But, you know, diverse tapestry of life and all that. ;)

bethelblues 06-02-2013 01:35 PM

Though I know some of you may view it as the easy choice, I'm shocked more people haven't voted for Rumours. Has Lindsey ever really surpassed his work on that album?? Really??? Honestly, I don't think he's turned in three songs of as high caliber as Go Your Own Way, Never Going Back Again, and Second Hand News, three classics which have held up over time and feature stunning guitar work.

My view of Tango in the Night: fantastic instrumentation from Lindsey. The guitar work all-around is incredible, even on Seven Wonders and Isn't It Midnight. Big Love was his hit song. I love his musicianship on Tango and the Night and Family Man. But his lyrics on the other hand... BARF

I've written in the Say You Will thread about my thoughts on Lindsey's overproduction on a few songs, how he took the life out of Bleed To Love Her and Say Goodbye, how the band really should've learned from prior decisions (the reception of Tusk) and went for a more focused 10- or 11-track work.

Tusk is really Lindsey's baby. So I cannot not vote for that album, though I do think his experimentations are not always successful and I'm slightly bothered when he is labeled as the only true 'artist' of the band. I love what he did with the singular song Tusk (how great it worked in the TV series The Americans when stripped to its essence speaks to its tremendous groove and rhythmic power), The Ledge in capturing a different sound for the band, and What Makes You Think You're The One for his vocal ferocity. His production skills on Stevie's songs are probably at an all-time high as well: Sara is gorgeous and Beautiful Child one of the greatest (and most under-appreciated) Rock ballads.

So my vote actually matches how I feel about Stevie's best Fleetwood Mac work: Rumours and Tusk.

Dex 06-02-2013 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bethelblues (Post 1094801)
Though I know some of you may view it as the easy choice, I'm shocked more people haven't voted for Rumours. Has Lindsey ever really surpassed his work on that album?? Really???

Absolutely, yes.

Rumours has Lindsey offering absolutely perfect pop songs, but that isn't really what we're discussing here. And I'm thrilled more people than expected are recognizing the sheer creativity and passion he displays on Say You Will.

On Ice 06-02-2013 06:45 PM

Although Tusk is a pop masterpiece in it's own right, I think I would do his work on '75 and Rumours a great disservice by not recognizing that his work is the dictionary definition of classic rock while Tusk is more of a "cult classic". When you put on the '75 album and are immediately treated to Lindsey's voice "Monday morning you sure look fine... it showcases a previously underappreciated talent in Mr Buckingham. Same with Blue Letter "when your day goes down, I won't be waitin' around for you". World Turning, although a partially "borrowed" song from Peter Green, the sounds he got out of his guitar are nothing short of brilliant. Ending with his show stopping masterpiece, which remains to this day in I'm so Afraid, heck he even recycled it a couple of times in Tango and This is the Time.

Rumours brought him into the stratosphere talent wise. Second Hand News like Monday Morning, is one of those songs you can listen to again and again and it never grows stale. His musicianship in Never Going Back Again in its various incarnations again showcase his unmatchable talent. Go Your Own Way is Lindsey's career defining song, he has never not played it live and the temptation to turn it up really loud will never fade. Lastly, what Lindsey did with the Chain, he has never quite captured since and probably could have out of the more brilliant pieces of Stevie Nicks demos that we know exist, and the musical pieces he's written, especially in the late career trilogy of brilliant solo albums.

Other albums, especially Tusk, have other examples of Lindsey's brilliance, but he changed the course of his career in 1979 and decided not to make the classic sound again. His work has been stellar, but none of it is as good as these two first Fleetwood Mac albums. Part of me wishes he had kept to that meticulous way of writing, arranging and recording music. I think I read recently where Ken Calliat wanted to take Tusk into more of a musically perfect album than Rumours and with the quality of songs on the album, I can't help but wonder how they would have sounded if that direction had been taken.

TrueFaith77 06-02-2013 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by On Ice (Post 1094834)
Although Tusk is a pop masterpiece in it's own right, I think I would do his work on '75 and Rumours a great disservice by not recognizing that his work is the dictionary definition of classic rock while Tusk is more of a "cult classic". When you put on the '75 album and are immediately treated to Lindsey's voice "Monday morning you sure look fine... it showcases a previously underappreciated talent in Mr Buckingham. Same with Blue Letter "when your day goes down, I won't be waitin' around for you". World Turning, although a partially "borrowed" song from Peter Green, the sounds he got out of his guitar are nothing short of brilliant. Ending with his show stopping masterpiece, which remains to this day in I'm so Afraid, heck he even recycled it a couple of times in Tango and This is the Time.

Rumours brought him into the stratosphere talent wise. Second Hand News like Monday Morning, is one of those songs you can listen to again and again and it never grows stale. His musicianship in Never Going Back Again in its various incarnations again showcase his unmatchable talent. Go Your Own Way is Lindsey's career defining song, he has never not played it live and the temptation to turn it up really loud will never fade. Lastly, what Lindsey did with the Chain, he has never quite captured since and probably could have out of the more brilliant pieces of Stevie Nicks demos that we know exist, and the musical pieces he's written, especially in the late career trilogy of brilliant solo albums.

Other albums, especially Tusk, have other examples of Lindsey's brilliance, but he changed the course of his career in 1979 and decided not to make the classic sound again. His work has been stellar, but none of it is as good as these two first Fleetwood Mac albums. Part of me wishes he had kept to that meticulous way of writing, arranging and recording music. I think I read recently where Ken Calliat wanted to take Tusk into more of a musically perfect album than Rumours and with the quality of songs on the album, I can't help but wonder how they would have sounded if that direction had been taken.

Brilliant defense of 75 and Rumours. Add Come to the list of ISA-redeux.

bethelblues 06-02-2013 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dex (Post 1094806)
Absolutely, yes.

Rumours has Lindsey offering absolutely perfect pop songs, but that isn't really what we're discussing here. And I'm thrilled more people than expected are recognizing the sheer creativity and passion he displays on Say You Will.

You know, that is the same reason people have given to Dreams not being one of Stevie's best songs, saying it's a perfect pop song but not representative of Stevie's best work. I think that sentiment is rooted in the fact that it is played so often it now seems stale, not fresh or alive anymore. As I've argued that that studio recording perhaps captures the three voices of the lead singers together better than any other song while also giving a nod to the earlier blues roots of the band, I have to also disagree with regard to Lindsey's songs. I don't want to reduce them down to whether they're pop or rock and roll or artistically successful or whatever, they are great songs and there is a reason they continue to be played today. I'm glad OnIce mentioned The Chain, which I forgot. Lindsey's guitar work on that song is notable and is as important to the searing power of the record as Stevie's lyrics. I welcome that Go Your Own Way, The Chain, Never Going Back Again, and Second Hand News are considered rock classics and I see them as among his best work, even if it's not considered the cool choice. While Lindsey wanted to separate himself from that sound and not limit himself, he wasn't always successful in subsequent albums, including Tusk. And I think Say You Will, though it may have some of his best songs in years, also demonstrates some of the drawbacks of Lindsey's vision when not balanced by other members in the band.

Quote:

Originally Posted by On Ice (Post 1094834)
Although Tusk is a pop masterpiece in it's own right, I think I would do his work on '75 and Rumours a great disservice by not recognizing that his work is the dictionary definition of classic rock while Tusk is more of a "cult classic". When you put on the '75 album and are immediately treated to Lindsey's voice "Monday morning you sure look fine... it showcases a previously underappreciated talent in Mr Buckingham. Same with Blue Letter "when your day goes down, I won't be waitin' around for you". World Turning, although a partially "borrowed" song from Peter Green, the sounds he got out of his guitar are nothing short of brilliant. Ending with his show stopping masterpiece, which remains to this day in I'm so Afraid, heck he even recycled it a couple of times in Tango and This is the Time.

This is an excellent argument for the inclusion of Fleetwood Mac Fleetwood Mac. Lindsey vocals are also in top shape on Crystal, and despite it being a Stevie song, I think his voice brings something to the song that she never could. Hmmm...Monday Morning, World Turning, I'm So Afraid (though more famous as a live performance than its studio version), Crystal, Blue Letter cover. He certainly came onto the scene big on this album, offering a strong contribution.

MikeVielhaber 06-02-2013 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrueFaith77 (Post 1094837)
Brilliant defense of 75 and Rumours. Add Come to the list of ISA-redeux.

You mean simply that there there's a big long guitar solo at the end of the song? Because otherwise it's not really an ISA rewrite or anything in any musical way.

On Ice 06-02-2013 08:56 PM

Quote:

Lindsey vocals are also in top shape on Crystal, and despite it being a Stevie song, I think his voice brings something to the song that she never could.
How could I forget Crystal, shoot....:sorry:

Absolutely the right decision for him to sing lead on Crystal, the album would've been perfect with the inclusion of one more Stevie Lead, Crystal wasn't the song. Sorcerer coulda shouda woulda been a show stopping Fleetwood Mac classic as her white album voice would've nailed the song into orbit and a good complement to Rhiannon as she was way under utilized on the album and that first tour.

bethelblues 06-02-2013 09:56 PM

No worries. I forgot The Chain on Rumours in my first post.

I agree re: Stevie and I think we mentioned this in her respective albums thread, that she was underutilized on Fleetwood Mac Fleetwood Mac. I was wondering if the band made her give Crystal to Lindsey or if they were just sharpening the original recording from Buckingham Nicks. That was my same reasoning why I couldn't put that album among her two best, even with Landslide and Rhiannon.

KenB 06-02-2013 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dex (Post 1094806)
Absolutely, yes.

And I'm thrilled more people than expected are recognizing the sheer creativity and passion he displays on Say You Will.

Tusk is the no-brainer top choice for me. For second place, I spent a lot of time going back and forth between Rumours and Say You Will. I've loved Rumours for almost 30 years. I think it's one of the greatest albums ever recorded (and overall a much better album than Say You Will). But in the end, I decided that Rumours has three absolutely stellar songs by Lindsey (Second Hand News, Never Going Back Again and Go Your Own Way) and that's all. (I don't count The Chain as a Lindsey song.) Say You Will also has three stellar songs by Lindsey (Red Rover, Bleed to Love Her and Say Goodbye) plus some very good songs in What's The World Coming To, Peacekeeper and Steal Your Heart Away, as well as some work that took major risks (Come), which is something that Rumours, as amazing as it is, really didn't do. So I very narrowly voted for SYW over Rumours as my number two.

KenB 06-02-2013 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KenB (Post 1094864)
Tusk is the no-brainer top choice for me. For second place, I spent a lot of time going back and forth between Rumours and Say You Will. I've loved Rumours for almost 30 years. I think it's one of the greatest albums ever recorded (and overall a much better album than Say You Will). But in the end, I decided that Rumours has three absolutely stellar songs by Lindsey (Second Hand News, Never Going Back Again and Go Your Own Way) and that's all. (I don't count The Chain as a Lindsey song.) Say You Will also has three stellar songs by Lindsey (Red Rover, Bleed to Love Her and Say Goodbye) plus some very good songs in What's The World Coming To, Peacekeeper and Steal Your Heart Away, as well as some work that took major risks (Come), which is something that Rumours, as amazing as it is, really didn't do. So I very narrowly voted for SYW over Rumours as my number two.

Also, I forgot to mention another point in favor of SYW: Though it's not part of the "official" album sequence, there's the beautiful version of Dylan's "Love Minus Zero/No Limit" on the deluxe edition, which I adore.

elle 06-02-2013 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dex (Post 1094806)
Rumours has Lindsey offering absolutely perfect pop songs, but that isn't really what we're discussing here. And I'm thrilled more people than expected are recognizing the sheer creativity and passion he displays on Say You Will.

absolutely! :thumbsup:
Quote:

Originally Posted by On Ice (Post 1094834)
Although Tusk is a pop masterpiece in it's own right, I think I would do his work on '75 and Rumours a great disservice by not recognizing that his work is the dictionary definition of classic rock while Tusk is more of a "cult classic". When you put on the '75 album and are immediately treated to Lindsey's voice "Monday morning you sure look fine... it showcases a previously underappreciated talent in Mr Buckingham. Same with Blue Letter "when your day goes down, I won't be waitin' around for you". World Turning, although a partially "borrowed" song from Peter Green, the sounds he got out of his guitar are nothing short of brilliant. Ending with his show stopping masterpiece, which remains to this day in I'm so Afraid, heck he even recycled it a couple of times in Tango and This is the Time.

Rumours brought him into the stratosphere talent wise. Second Hand News like Monday Morning, is one of those songs you can listen to again and again and it never grows stale. His musicianship in Never Going Back Again in its various incarnations again showcase his unmatchable talent. Go Your Own Way is Lindsey's career defining song, he has never not played it live and the temptation to turn it up really loud will never fade. Lastly, what Lindsey did with the Chain, he has never quite captured since and probably could have out of the more brilliant pieces of Stevie Nicks demos that we know exist, and the musical pieces he's written, especially in the late career trilogy of brilliant solo albums.

some great thoughts here, and i generally agree with most of them.

however, he was not nearly as prolific as a songwriter during that time, as he became later in his career. maybe he was still getting into the whole songwriting thing? (that apparently Stevie has dragged him into kicking and screaming during BN era), and he created these gems you mention, but there were only few of them. during Tusk era, he really blossomed as a songwriter. i wonder whether he considered himself mostly guitarist, singer, arranger, producer before Tusk time? and after putting together all these brilliant songs on FM and Rumours, finally figured out songwriting works well for him as an outlet, and he really is a brilliant songwriter too?

Quote:

Originally Posted by KenB (Post 1094864)
Tusk is the no-brainer top choice for me. For second place, I spent a lot of time going back and forth between Rumours and Say You Will. I've loved Rumours for almost 30 years. I think it's one of the greatest albums ever recorded (and overall a much better album than Say You Will). But in the end, I decided that Rumours has three absolutely stellar songs by Lindsey (Second Hand News, Never Going Back Again and Go Your Own Way) and that's all. (I don't count The Chain as a Lindsey song.) Say You Will also has three stellar songs by Lindsey (Red Rover, Bleed to Love Her and Say Goodbye) plus some very good songs in What's The World Coming To, Peacekeeper and Steal Your Heart Away, as well as some work that took major risks (Come), which is something that Rumours, as amazing as it is, really didn't do. So I very narrowly voted for SYW over Rumours as my number two.

i like your analysis. a lot. although i would maybe count some different SYW as stellar Lindsey songs (Murrow, Red Rover, BTLH, definitely Peacekeeper lyrics... and i would add the whole GOS1 because that was really the same hugely prolific, brilliant, and out-of-boundaries songwriting period for Lindsey).

Quote:

Originally Posted by KenB (Post 1094866)
Also, I forgot to mention another point in favor of SYW: Though it's not part of the "official" album sequence, there's the beautiful version of Dylan's "Love Minus Zero/No Limit" on the deluxe edition, which I adore.

i can't express how much i love his version, how beautifully he sings it, and how much he added with those so-lindsey guitar parts. <3 :thumbsup:

McTrouble 06-02-2013 11:27 PM

Tusk and Say You Will - would have made great Lindsey solo albums with just his stuff on them

On Ice 06-03-2013 07:39 AM

Quote:

however, he was not nearly as prolific as a songwriter during that time, as he became later in his career. maybe he was still getting into the whole songwriting thing? (that apparently Stevie has dragged him into kicking and screaming during BN era), and he created these gems you mention, but there were only few of them. during Tusk era, he really blossomed as a songwriter. i wonder whether he considered himself mostly guitarist, singer, arranger, producer before Tusk time? and after putting together all these brilliant songs on FM and Rumours, finally figured out songwriting works well for him as an outlet, and he really is a brilliant songwriter too?
That's a really good point about Lindsey's songwriting, after Rumours he really seemed to go into high productivity with creating new music. When I think of the early 90's and how good Stevie sounded just around the time of the end of the Mask and Lindsey's stunning Out of The Cradle not to mention Christine being in a prolific period, we could have had another masterpiece of a Mac album, sadly it wasn't to be.

Fortunately for us, Lindsey found that second wind and has put together some of the best music of his career in the last 6 years. The most important factor I think is that he finally found that balance between experimentation and maintaining that appeal for the listener. I'm also a big Say You Will fan and think he did a fine job throughout. All that said, I'm still drawn back to '75 and Rumours, it can't be topped to these ears. :nod:

Dex 06-03-2013 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bethelblues (Post 1094842)
You know, that is the same reason people have given to Dreams not being one of Stevie's best songs, saying it's a perfect pop song but not representative of Stevie's best work. I think that sentiment is rooted in the fact that it is played so often it now seems stale, not fresh or alive anymore. As I've argued that that studio recording perhaps captures the three voices of the lead singers together better than any other song while also giving a nod to the earlier blues roots of the band, I have to also disagree with regard to Lindsey's songs.

I know it can sometimes be difficult to wrap your head around an opinion that differs so much from your own, so I can appreciate the need to try and justify it. But honestly, I don't hear Dreams on the radio much. Never have. Maybe it's the countries I've lived in or the stations I've listened to. But I have heard many Mac and Mac-adjacent songs on the radio far more than Dreams. When I got Rumours, Dreams was one of the few songs on the album I didn't really know. I still think it's overhyped, and I think much of the praise heaped upon it is applicable to many Mac recordings of that era. I like it, but I don't get why it's considered so darn special. ;)

You've mentioned here and elsewhere that many on this forum don't give Dreams its due credit, but I can't say I've seen that. It seems to be a universally loved song as far as I can tell.

I chose Say You Will and Tusk because I think there is so much more of Lindsey's genius on display in those albums than there is in the relatively narrow sonic confines of Rumours and the White Album. Radio play has nothing to do with it.

KarmaContestant 06-03-2013 12:30 PM

Tusk and Tango, easy-peasy.

bethelblues 06-03-2013 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dex (Post 1094925)
I know it can sometimes be difficult to wrap your head around an opinion that differs so much from your own, so I can appreciate the need to try and justify it. But honestly, I don't hear Dreams on the radio much. Never have. Maybe it's the countries I've lived in or the stations I've listened to. But I have heard many Mac and Mac-adjacent songs on the radio far more than Dreams. When I got Rumours, Dreams was one of the few songs on the album I didn't really know. I still think it's overhyped, and I think much of the praise heaped upon it is applicable to many Mac recordings of that era. I like it, but I don't get why it's considered so darn special. ;)

You've mentioned here and elsewhere that many on this forum don't give Dreams its due credit, but I can't say I've seen that. It seems to be a universally loved song as far as I can tell.

I chose Say You Will and Tusk because I think there is so much more of Lindsey's genius on display in those albums than there is in the relatively narrow sonic confines of Rumours and the White Album. Radio play has nothing to do with it.

I really appreciated your post. Yeah, just wanted to justify my opinion so I'm not written off as ignorant for not choosing Lindsey's other albums. I mentioned Dreams as an example since I've certainly gotten that impression from reading this board. I think a few people mentioned it being overrated in the Stevie thread for her best two albums. In the US, as you know, it was FM's only number-one hit, so it's certainly recognized though I'm sure more by its chorus than the name of the song. I do understand why some people think it's gotten stale or shouldn't be performed every night, so that's why I defended the studio recording and raised the point that maybe some fans read Lindsey's Rumours songs the same way. So, yeah, I do appreciate Lindsey's creativity and strokes of genius, but I don't always agree with his decisions from small production choices to larger album concept issues. Like I said, I'm a fan of Red Rover and absolutely love Say Goodbye and Bleed to Love Her, though for the latter two I really think he took the life and passion out of the songs by speeding up Say Goodbye and overproducing Bleed to Love Her. You probably don't agree but it's certainly fun to debate back and forth.

TerraRhiannon 06-03-2013 06:29 PM

Without a doubt Tusk and Tango In The Night, in my opinion. :cool:

Oh I forgot that You and I and Family Man is on Tango in the Night.. I take that back. I would vote for Tusk and Rumours if I got to re-vote!

TrueFaith77 06-03-2013 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TerraRhiannon (Post 1094962)
Without a doubt Tusk and Tango In The Night, in my opinion. :cool:

Oh I forgot that You and I and Family Man is on Tango in the Night.. I take that back. I would vote for Tusk and Rumours if I got to re-vote!

those two are my faves on titn (especially family man)! :shrug:

KenB 06-03-2013 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bethelblues (Post 1094953)
Like I said, I'm a fan of Red Rover and absolutely love Say Goodbye and Bleed to Love Her, though for the latter two I really think he took the life and passion out of the songs by speeding up Say Goodbye and overproducing Bleed to Love Her. You probably don't agree but it's certainly fun to debate back and forth.

I am not Dex, but I echo his sentiments and voted for the same two albums. I love both the live version and the studio version of Say Goodbye, for different reasons. I've heard several people here call the studio recording "sped up." Do we know that it was originally written to be slower? Or are we only calling it "sped up" after the fact, when in reality it's that Lindsey later decided to slow it down in concert? Is there an early recording of Say Goodbye that's played at a slower tempo? If there is, I'd love to hear it!

Villavic 06-03-2013 11:06 PM

I voted Tango because it was a hard time for the band, and not the best momento for Stevie (but a very good for Chris I think), and I think the álbum was a big success because of Lindsey's work in a great part.

bethelblues 06-04-2013 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KenB (Post 1094969)
I am not Dex, but I echo his sentiments and voted for the same two albums. I love both the live version and the studio version of Say Goodbye, for different reasons. I've heard several people here call the studio recording "sped up." Do we know that it was originally written to be slower? Or are we only calling it "sped up" after the fact, when in reality it's that Lindsey later decided to slow it down in concert? Is there an early recording of Say Goodbye that's played at a slower tempo? If there is, I'd love to hear it!

I'm not sure about the history behind Say Goodbye. Maybe someone knows why Lindsey slowed it down for his live version of the song? I called the studio version "sped up" in relation to his live performance, which I heard at a Fleetwood Mac show before I heard the original recording. In comparing the two, my feeling is the SYW recording doesn't capture what Lindsey brings to his live performances, which highlight a guitar part that has room to seep into the audience and really enforce the meaning of the song and its lyrics for me.

michelej1 06-04-2013 02:16 AM

^When they're live and standing in front of you it's one thing, because their expressions and delivery are part of the whole experience.

But when I am just listening to the studio version, I want a song, something I can hum, a melody, something on which the sentiment can grab on and stick. Something that stands on its own without a visual accompaniment. I think the faster version of the song fits those requirements better for me. So, I like the studio version more, for that reason.

Michele

redtulip 06-04-2013 11:44 AM

I meant to vote for Tusk and SYW, but somehow only managed to vote for Tusk, weird.

Anyway, of course Tusk because that really is a Lindsey masterpiece in my opinion. He really went outside the box and came into his own on that album and I love all of his songs on there. My favorite Lindsey FM song is The Ledge, plus many more of my top Lindsey FM songs are on there.

SYW is also a Lindsey masterpiece. Such a wide variety of songs on there from him and it also showed a growth in his songwriting abilities I think. Great guitar work, interesting lyrics.

I enjoy a lot of his other FM songs on the other albums as well, it's just that for me, Tusk and SYW are Lindsey at his most creative.


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