Rolling Stone: Stevie Nicks Sees Women's Rights Slipping
 

Opinionated comments section! http://www.rollingstone.com/music/ne...te-it-20130315

http://i.imgur.com/5Udj0Td.jpg

Dan Rys
March 15, 2013 10:55 AM ET
"The true rock legends truly changed the game," said NPR's Ann Powers by way of introduction Thursday at SXSW Music. "Stevie Nicks definitely changed the game."

Powers conducted a Q&A with the very busy Fleetwood Mac singer – in addition to performing with Dave Grohl's Sound City Players at SXSW, she has a new tour and is set to release a new solo album. The talk ran down the story of Nicks and Lindsey Buckingham joining Fleetwood Mac, her regimen for keeping her voice in shape even at the age of 64 and her myriad performing influences. But it opened and closed with a discussion about feminism – not only in the largely male-dominated world of rock & roll, but in society today.

"We fought very hard for feminism, for women's rights," Nicks said in response to a question from the crowd. "What I'm seeing today is a very opposite thing. I don't know why, but I see women being put back in their place. And I hate it. We're losing all we worked so hard for, and it really bums me out."

Nicks and bandmate Christine McVie were strong female figures in an industry where many male musicians were hero-worshipped by fans across the world, and Nicks said they worked to change the perception of women within the rock & roll circles of the Seventies. "I said to Chris, we can never be treated like second-class citizens," she explained. "When we walk into a room we have to float in like goddesses, because that's how we wanted to be treated. We demanded that from the beginning."

Nicks also recalled her days in San Francisco in the late Sixties and early Seventies, when she and Buckingham opened for headliners from Janis Joplin to Jimi Hendrix. "Flamboyance and attitude from Janis, humbleness and grace from Hendrix, and a little bit of slinky from Grace Slick," she said. "Those were the three people who I emulated when I was on stage."

And while it's been more than 30 years since she took up her place in Fleetwood Mac, her voice – bolstered by a vocal coach she has worked with since 1997 – isn't letting her down yet. "Opera singers sing into their 80s," she said. "I don't plan to be doing [hundreds] of shows when I'm 85, but I do plan to still be out there singing when I'm a seriously older woman."

this is nice, thx for posting!

Is this a misprint or is this the "tribute" album SN referred to shortly after her mom's death?

Could this be the reason Stevie doesn't want a new FM album out now?

what a crock of sh*t.

putting down every other woman especially from the current generation, while putting herself on a pedestal of fighting for women's rights?? pleeeeeease. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

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yeah i think the reporter got it confused with IYD movie, as i said in the SXSW thread where i first posted that RS article.

as a feminist, I am choosing to make a more frivolous comment-- Mama needs a trim.

Your decidedly strange fascination (that you will never admit) with Stevie aside, why do you feel such venom for a woman who speaks her mind? And how, exactly, is she "putting herself on a pedestal" for simply voicing an opinion (that I happen to agree with). And it doesn't negate the fact that, yes, in a number of ways, Stevie blazed a trail for women in rock music. She was a female singer/songwriter and co-leader of a rock and roll band at a time when women in music were, for the most part, given songs to sing and told to fall in line behind their male songwriters, producers and musicians. Stevie was part of a small elite group of female musicians (Joni Mitchell, Carly Simon, Grace Slick, Ann/Nancy Wilson, etc.) who actually had independence and clout in a man's world. And it seems that Stevie was singular in her ability to be a strong woman who did not give into the peer pressure to display stereotypically masculine mannerisms, e.g., Joan Jett. IF Stevie wanted to put herself on a pedestal as a pioneer as a woman in rock and roll, she has certainly earned that right.

I guess when you hate someone, you'll interpret their words in the worst possible light. I didn't see her putting herself on a pedestal just because she said she and Chris had to fight for their place; I've heard the same thing from the Wilson sisters and other female rockers from that era. I also definitely didn't hear her put down "every other woman." If anything, the comment about "women being put back" is a slam against the current industry's men.

lol. i was waiting for all these reactions from the guys.

wonder how Christine McVie feels if she ever reads any of these statements from Ms Nicks.

Stevie isn't putting herself on a pedestal above other women, she is saying that the industry is taking advantage of women and not giving them the rights that she and others like her fought for in their generation.

In Stevie's generation, all women had to be fighters, why Stevie shouldn't count as one of them is beyond me (it's not like she said "I fought, and I was the only one", she said "WE fought"). She has always included Christine McVie as her ally in this fight.

tell me, how did she fight for those rights? i would like to understand what everybody is talking about when they say that. what i always see is just Ms Nicks saying about herself how she's a trailblazer for women everywhere, and then some people just repeating her words, same as several guys already did in this thread.

her exact quote about how she did it from this interview is "Nicks said they worked to change the perception of women within the rock & roll circles of the Seventies. "I said to Chris, we can never be treated like second-class citizens," she explained. "When we walk into a room we have to float in like goddesses, because that's how we wanted to be treated. We demanded that from the beginning."

you need to float like a goddess so you can get your rights? what?? sorry, i think i can have my rights without having to float. i like to stomp.

so you PURPOSELY try to antagonize Stevie fans to "wait" for our reactions? what fun!!!

actually, although i'm mostly here for fun, this is one issue i feel very strongly about.

people calling themselves trailblazers on a particular issue if they are not belittle others who are.

how is she NOT a "trailblazer"? how many other women were so prominent in rock bands in her era?

Then you stomp, you do your thing, like floating like a goddess is her thing. I don't get the distinction you're trying to make here at all. Do you think she'd tell you that you're doing it wrong? Or ... I don't understand what your concrete point is here. Do you think she's saying that women have to wear chiffon and capes in order to be strong fighters?

Rock'n'roll is an industry full of huge egos. You need to make sure your ego is given as wide a berth as anyone else's to make it clear that you won't accept being treated like a doormat. I think it is pretty obvious that that's what "floating in like a goddess" refers to. If everyone else in the room is a smug arrogant asshat, then yeah, be a diva if that's what it takes. Why the hell not. Anyone who thinks that you can fight a demanding industry without being demanding in turn is naive.

What did she do? She was a visible part of a huge rock and roll band. She wrote many of its songs, including some of its best songs, she had a successful solo career motivated by a desire to fulfill her own personal artistic needs and career ambitions even if it upset the apple cart to some extent or other. She sang in a traditionally masculine connoted genre but did not erase her femininity even though feminine things (ie ballet, fairies, blah blah blah) are considered trivial and easily dismissed.

Why on earth do you begrudge her this? Does it lessen Lindsey or Christine or John or Mick? Is it wrong for her to recognize her impact? Stevie, Ann and Nancy Wilson, Pat Benetar, Joan Jett, Patti Smith, Tina and Janis and Joni and Grace, the number of women who have managed to earn their spot alongside the far more numerous male names that get mentioned in lists of great rock'n'rollers is few, that's just a fact. Stevie is among an elite group of women, if you ask people to name great women of rock'n'roll the list is not going to get much bigger. Check any Rolling Stone special or NME or what have you. Is that all a big hoax Stevie Nicks pulled on the world, to convince them she's the be all end all? She payed big bucks to steal the "Reigning queen of rock'n'roll" moniker from someone far worthier?

Do you really think that's what she's saying here?

What in this article gave rise to your comments? The part where she said "we"? The part were she acknowledged her own heroes like Janis? From that you get that Stevie Nicks considers herself the sole single trailblazer for women? What she said was that she had to fight. Along with other women that had to fight. And she finds it unfortunate that that fight did not result in permanent gains.

Nowhere in those quotes, did Stevie refer to herself as a trailblazer. And what she did say, has been corroborated by other female artists of her era. They were not treated equally by the men running the business (Kim Carnes was even told once by a label president, that the record company "already had their female artist"), and often times they weren't even afforded equal treatment by their male peers.

So, yes, those ladies had to work to be respected. And as Ann & Nancy Wilson have said, they often had to work twice as hard as the men on stage to get that respect.

As far the "float like goddesses" comment -- that's Stevie speak for "hold our heads up high and exude confidence."

first time i''ve heard of SN she was giving this statement how she was the first woman rocker in men's world, blazing the trail for all other women that came after her. (i'm paraphrasing, but that was the jest of it)

i though wow, i completely get and love what she's saying, i should look up this woman i've never heard of but who was apparently the first. so i did. and i looked up the years she was talking about. and felt she's belittling all these other women musicians and rock stars who came before her and at the same time as her. including Janis.

i guess everybody here knows and accepts that she rambles on and doesn't really think what she's saying every time, and that maybe she doesn't really mean it the way it comes out... but not everybody knows and understands that if they don't know much about her.

as for the pop music world now, maybe i'm wrong, but people like Gaga or Adele seem like pretty powerful and strong women, no?

as a fan of BOTH Adele, and Gaga, they are NOT in Stevie's league. they rely HEAViLY on "co"-writers and TEAMS of producers.

i'm not arguing any of these points. we all probably saw that recent study that majority of people even now (and even women), when they are given exact same resume to consider for a job position, but one with man's name and other with woman's on the top of it, somehow conclude that man is more qualified.

I've read hundreds of articles on Stevie over the past 28 years, and I don't recall her ever once implying that she was the first female rocker in a man's world. She's always included Chris, Ann, Nancy, Linda, et al, when talking about this subject.

In regards to Janis (and Stevie certainly gives her a lot of credit too), I think the reason she often isn't included with this particular group of women, is the fact that she presented herself in a more aggressive fashion (as was stated earlier in this thread about Joan Jett). She was very much "one of the guys," by all accounts.

Stevie speaks off the cuff, thankfully. No rehearsed responses or speeches. So, yeah, I'm sure there are times when things don't come out quite the way she meant them, but I prefer that. It's refreshing, and keeps things interesting when she's answering the same questions she's been asked for decades. It also shows us more of her human side.

If people who aren't as familiar with her don't get that, so be it.

you are going off topic. we are NOT discussing who we think is a better artist, what we are discussing is this:
what i'm saying is that somehow i can't see someone like Gaga allowing anybody to "put her in her place".

You are completely missing the point of her statement.

She is not taking a dig at the women of today - she's taking a dig at SOCIETY trying to put women "back in their place" after they've fought so hard to reach such heights and saying that she hates it. What you could possibly find wrong in that, or how you could possibly construe that as her belittling other women is completely beyond me, honestly.

so they don't count because woman has to be gorgeous and attractive to men to get ahead? smells like sexism.

But it's telling, no, that of all the women in the industry right now, we have to keep coming back to the examples of Lady Gaga and Adele. Truth is, comparatively there really aren't a lot of women currently on the charts who aren't manufactured by a team of male managers, male record company execs, male songwriters, etc.

Which is why Stevie champions women like Vanessa Carlton, Norah Jones, and Michelle Branch.

aren't women part of the society too?

the way i read her statement is - today's women are allowing themselves to be "put in their place" (whatever that is lol?), while she was fighting against that.

Of course women are members of society, but society as a WHOLE is still a patriarchy.

Quite frankly, I think you read her statement wrong. And I don't think her statement was limited to the music industry - I also read that she mentioned that she was interested in getting involved in women's rights in a political fashion, too, although it is not quoted in this article.

No ma'am -- but the argument is that you shouldn't have to act like a guy to be respected by them. Stevie wanted to be allowed, and for other female rockers to be allowed, to still be pretty and feminine (if they so desired), while being afforded the same level of respect for their talents as the men.

didn't know she championed Norah Jones, interesting.

i may be easily wrong but she seems to publicly champion women who are on the top and don't really need a champion (Taylor Swift, Katy Perry, Reese Witherspoon come to mind), not anybody who's struggling (kick-her-why-she's-down Lindsey Lohan).

i think Lady Gaga is the opposite of Stevie Nicks. now there's a woman who was apparently told no and shown the door plenty of times because she was "not pretty enough" to succeed in the industry where looks are more important than talent.

Gaga and Adele both have their contributions to the cause of individuality, but I would contend that they're not really breaking new ground. Gaga seems to me to deal in the same stock-in-trade as Madonna (catchy songs + controversial image), and I think Adele herself has said something to the effect of "I'm a pop star, I'm not really doing anything new". I will try and look for the quote although I doubt I'll be able to find it.

I think women have generally had it easier in pop music than in rock music. But I don't know if Stevie is referring to success in a given genre or if she's talking about being taken advantage of by labels. I do think that a lot of record execs and the like are men, though, and that inevitably tilts things in a given direction.

Generally I think Stevie has a pretty pessimistic view of the business today, and I'm not sure I agree with all of it, but I'm also nowhere near the industry myself and I also don't think one can conclude that she's blaming or condemning female artists. She's disappointed not to see more push back than what she wants to see, but she can't be feeling bad for anyone but the female artists themselves since they are the ones suffering from it. I see her being friendly or complementary in some way or other with so many younger women, Beyonce, Sheryl Crow, Carly Rae Jepsen of all people. I think in the controversy with Nicki Minaj (for which she apologized for her comments twds Minaj) she said that she was coming from a place of protectiveness of Mariah Carey. I dunno, I actually can't think of another woman of her generation who connects so positively with as many younger women, to be honest. It's to the point where I was actually shocked that she was so cold towards Lindsay Lohan, it didn't seem like her MO.

And there's a huge difference between saying women have to be like one of the guys and women can't be like one of the guys. I think it's obvious which one is the issue here. Being like one of the guys helps women be taken more seriously, which is wrong. That doesn't make it wrong for a woman to be like one of the guys. That shouldn't need spelling out.

Stevie's almost always supported up & coming female artists, like Louise Goffin, Sandy Stewart and Marilyn Martin. But I'm sure that, in a lot of cases, she doesn't really get to know some of these women (like Norah Jones) until they've already gotten their foot at least partially in the door (she wouldn't really have much of an opportunity to be introduced to them prior to that).

But I really can't think of many artists for whom the notion of "Girl Power" is as important as it seems to be to Stevie. Rather than treat them like "the competition," she praises other female artists and embraces them.

A fact which actually strengthens Stevie's point -- in the 2000s, after all the inroads made during the '70s & '80s, female artists are still being told they're "not pretty enough," instead of being signed on the merit of their talents.

there's a job for Stevie then if she wants to fight for women's rights - take over some of those industry positions from men and make it better. she's powerful, has experience in business, money, connections, visibility, why not if that's what she cares about?

do you really think that? i haven't really encountered that but maybe i'm just oblivious or don't care for such propositions.

You really have never experienced this, as a woman? It's sadly but definitely true.

i'm not really sure why is everybody trying to argue there's still inequality today. that is not in the question, we all agree on this (and i'm glad we do!).

and again:

Different situations screw women over in different ways.

I was a STEM person until very recently deciding to change my career. I took tons of science and math classes and the older I got the fewer women there were with me in those classes. I took chess classes as a kid and I was one of very few girls there. I dropped out of computer classes because I got tired of feeling like there was some game being played with how femininely or masculinely I chose to present myself. In those situations, something like wearing pink or liking a Disney princess, or when I got older, daring to wear a miniskirt could make me be seen as less serious, for sure. My mother told me she was often told how she could and could not wear her hair at work because it was naturally curly and thus too sexy for her to be viewed as professional.

You could just as easily find a woman who had difficulties because she was not feminine enough. She might get made fun of as undateable, she might get told she can't be a ballerina, she might get ostracized for her looks by idiot youtube commenters. None of it is right and none of it is fair, but all of it exists, unfortunately.

Stevie was sexy enough to be wanted for her marketability. She was also sexy enough to get dismissed as an insignificant contributor. It's a double bind, you're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't. In rock and roll, being a sexy woman could get you success as, what, a groupie? Just because you're beautiful and sell records doesn't mean men will like it any more when you tell them "THIS is when I want to wear that dress, not THEN" or "I will record THIS song, not THAT one" or, you know, "You wouldn't say that to Bob Dylan."

probably best to ignore elle's posts. clearly only here to stir the pot.

true about different situations.

i don't think anybody could dismiss someone like Chrissie Hynde as insignificant contributor. and i don't think Christine McVie was considered significant contributor because she was not sexy enough to be dismissed. ;)

that is very disrespectful and dismissive (hey, are you dismissing me and my points because i'm a woman? ;) lol).

we are having a discussion about women's issues some of us care about. if you don't, feel free to stay out of it.

Chrissie Hynde was the leader of her band, the dynamics are not straightforwardly comparable to Fleetwood Mac; nor can I recall her image being as feminine as Stevie's. But in any case just because some women are luckier doesn't mean it doesn't happen. As for your latter statement you know very well that's a total non-starter. "Because Stevie Nicks was sexy, she was not always seen as a significant contributor" cannot by any logic convert to "Anyone who is seen as a significant contributor is seen as such because they are not sexy", much less "Anyone who is a significant contributor is such because they are not sexy." That's logical gymnastics. Christine McVie was seen as a significant contributor because that's exactly what she was. If she was not similarly dismissed as Stevie, we can point to Stevie's bouncier personality, her ultra feminine couture, her "confessional" lyrics, her dependency on others to provide instrumentation, as things that are all coded as more "feminine" experiences by society. I'm not going to sit and debate about what's sexy or not to me as a person, I think I've been on the level and it's transparent that what I'm talking about is what sells as sexy in the MTV era.

:xoxo::xoxo:again.... Janet Jackson!! you run that board nobody comments on LOL.... why on EARTH are you on Stevie's page?????:shrug: you don't even like her???? :xoxo: :sorry: but not really.....so i guess. "that''s the way love goes" :blob2: