Greeny Pvk era
 

Hello from Italy.

"In The Skies", "Little Dreamer" and "Watcha Gonna Do" will be out on Sanctuary next April 18th.

All the 3 cds have been remastered and have sleeve notes written by Martin Celmins.

Sorry, no unreleased tracks here!

Mario.

That's great, but what about "White sky"? I always thought that was a PVK album.
And they could at least have tagged on the outtakes from the album sessions as released on
"Kolors" and "Legend" as bonus, without overdubs.

Firstly, I must say the the 3 cds are on Castle, rather than on Sanctuary...

Then I agree 100% with you. I don't like reissues when they are a straight copy of the actual LP.

Fori stance, Peter's brother Mike said that "Black Woman" was a good track from the "Little Dreamer" sessions and that Peter was disappointed because it was left off the LP. (it ended up to be part of Kolors).

Last, but not the least, I think that "White Sky" was on Creole and was the first solo album not Pvk.

Mario.

CDUniverse.com shows the April 18th release date. Amazon.com shows the release date as April 25th. :shrug:


Too bad they couldn't bring themselves to add the 45 version of "Apostle" to the In The Skies album. :(

Yes Chili,

the street date has been posponed to April 25th 2005.

Just like you, I have been dissapointed by the lack of unreleased and/or altenate takes, but I hope Martin sleeve notes will make up for that.

Mario.

I'm glad that these three are being released. Maybe it will stop the flood of "anthologies" of these tracks. To get ALL the songs from these three albums, you'd have to buy about 10 of the anthologies and then you'd end up with a severe redundancy of tunes.

hi mario, cD and everyone-

i don't understand this re-release strategy at all. i'd definitely get the pvk reissues if there were extra unreleased tracks or outtakes.

is it correct that material not on the original releases of the pvk and pre splinter group solo records (in the skies, little dreamer, what cha gonna do, white sky) that has been released (on kolors, legend etc) are not from in the skies? i do have kolors and it seems to be from sessions after in the skies and the credits are consistent with that. but i'm not entirely sure about this because i don't have legend or any of the other compliations.

there are outtakes from in the skies on snowy's goldtop compilation, i understand. are these worth getting?

zero

You'd hope they would stop the anthologies, but all of these albums were issued on CD by Castle years ago. My only hope with the new reissues is that they use the original covers.

Hello :wavey:

"Goldtop" is a great album. I was a fan of Snowy's even before I was a fan of Peter's, and this CD was partly how I discovered Peter's music. There are two outtakes - "In The Skies" and "Slabo Day" (both instrumentals) and they're pretty damn good, particularly Slabo Day. There is a load of Snowy's other stuff on there too and it's a good way to start if you don't know much of his music.

In the sleeve notes Snowy says that these two tracks were rehearsals from the first day, down at the Who's studios in Shepperton, England. It is suggested that Peter was still unsure of himself in the studio and relied on Snowy to take the lead during these first rehearsals. Snowy plays lead on both tracks of course.

Also, I understood that most/all of the Kolors album consists of outtakes from the White Sky album sessions, rather than earlier albums. Could be wrong though - doesn't it say in the Celmins biography? My copy is hundreds of miles away and I can't check :confused:

bb- thanks, this is a big help. i am a big snowy fan. i did it the other way round from you. when in the skies came out i wondered who the hell snowy white was. i didn't really discover snowy's solo material until many years later when i got 'highway to the sun' which i love. i've been chipping away at his back catalog ever since. to my taste snowy's much better than bernie marsden and infinitely better gary moore as upholder of peter's legacy. makes gary sound like a hack which is quite a trick.

i believe you are right about kolors- my understanding too was that it is white sky material- the band is white sky composition. i don't know where the legend material comes from though- i thought it was pvk but i'm out of my depth there.

zero

Weren't Snowy White & Gary Moore TOGETHER in one incarnation of Thin Lizzy?

cD - i don't think so. i believe snowy joined in 80 and that gary left for good in 79. but i could be entirely wrong!

zero

As far as I know, Kolors and Legend contains mostly outtakes from White sky, Little dreamer and Whatcha gonna do. "Bandit", "black woman" etc. are from the Little dreamer sessions. Big boy now and Corner of my mind are likely White Sky outtakes. None of the tracks seem to originate from the sessions with the Kolors band in 1982 though. Wonder where those are?

Hello from sunny Italy!

1- I agree with Chili that it's time to stop all those "anthologies", at least I think they are good only for complestits/collectors...

2-It's true that all those records were already released by Castle in Europe and Rhino in Usa, but they have both poor sound quality and poor sleeve notes.

These new reissues have been remastered and have sleeve notes written by Martin Celmins, so maybe we will know something new about Peter's era with PVK.

3-Yes, of course, both Kolors and (part) of Legend were made with outtakes from the Pvk albums, but it's fairly difficult to understand from which session every single track comes from.
I'm pretty sure that "Bandit", "Woman Don't", "Watcha Gonna Do" and "Black Woman" are from the "Little Dreamer" sessions, but don't have a clue about many other numbers......

4-From an old NME article (June 1979) we know that six more tracks were recorded during the "In The Skies" sessions. So where they are?

Least, but not the least, I want to spent some words about the track "Slabo Day" from Snowy White's "Glod Top". Now the sleeve notes stated that Snowy played lead guitar (as he actualy did on the album version), with a still "unsure" Peter playing rhythm guitar, but quoting Martin's own words.."Slabo Day's guitar playing sounds as Greeny's, 95% quite plain, 5% absoluty brilliant".....

Hope you find this at least interesting.

Mario.

Thanks for the info Mario!
I have a theory that the track "Rubbing my eyes" from the Legend collection, is from the In the skies sessions.
My (rather thin) arguments:
1. It's an instrumental, and half of the In the skies album is instrumental, while only one other early 80's album (White sky) contains an instrumental. It sounds spontaneously developed, which would fit with In the skies, as that album was partly "jammed" judging from Peter VK's comments.

2. The percussion sounds really similar to some tracks on In the skies. Compare with Slabo day, for example.

:blob1: I'm a huge Thin Lizzy fan, and you're entirely right. Gary Moore joined Lizzy for just a few months in 1974, then returned for 1979's Black Rose album. He left afterwards due to massive ego problems :rolleyes: and Snowy joined in 1980. He didn't have a great time with Thin Lizzy since he wasn't the excess-all-areas rocker that the other guys were, and Snowy was very quiet onstage whereas the others were jumping around like idiots. There was one occasion when someone backstage started poking Snowy with a broom during one gig to try and get him to move about a bit more :laugh:
He recorded two albums with them - 'Chinatown' (1980) and 'Renegade' (1981), which are patchy due to major drug problems for band leader Philip Lynott and the other guitarist Scott Gorham. Snowy contributed a couple of great songs though. He left in 1982 and was replaced by hairy axeman John Sykes who eventually wound up in Whitesnake.

On leaving Thin Lizzy, Snowy immediately found chart success in the UK with 'Bird of Paradise' and made some great solo albums including a couple of good blues albums with his 'Blues Agency'. He worked with Peter Green a few times, like on 'Time Traders', so I guess they stayed in touch after 'In The Skies'.

I agree with mzero that Snowy does greater justice to Peter's work than Gary Moore does. Gary is a great player, but he's just too overwrought.

Hello from Italy.

According to the Sanctuary website, "Watcha Gonna Do" has two extra tracks, one being the "title track", which was available only on the anthology "Blue Guitar".

But what about the second one?

Let's hope for an unreleased number, even though Martin told me that there are no unreleased tracks on all the 3 reissues.

We will see.

God bless you.

Mario.

I don't know whether or not this old news - maybe it's been discussed before, but I am convinced the lead guitar on "Seven Stars" is played by Snowy White. He's not credited as playing on the song at all according to my CD sleeve notes, but I'm sure it's him.

Any opinions?

Yes,

I agree that the guitar playing on "Seven Stars" sounds like Snowy's, but I can say that whilst writing the sleeve notes for the Sanctuary's reissue of "In The Skies", Martin spoke on the phone with Mike Green (Peter's brother).

Mike is 100% sure that on "In The Skies" Snowy only plays lead guitar on "Slabo Day" and on "Little Dreamer" and "Watcha Gonna Do" Ronnie Johnson plays rhythm guitar throughout, only lead guitar on the track "Watcha Gonna Do"

Mario.

Well, I guess we have to believe it :laugh: But I still have some funny feelings about all this. The solo on "Seven Stars" in particular sounds so much like Snowy's work with Thin Lizzy and his early solo stuff. I'm sure you know.

Maybe Mike Green isn't being too impartial about this? I feel awkward saying this but I'm not convinced the family always had Peter's interests at heart, and I speak having known some of them. Despite that, people may have made it seem like Peter was doing more than he actually was. I wouldn't be too surprised if there was some slight bending of the truth regarding these things, and Peter would surely have had little input over issues such as musicians' credits. After all, it was a Peter Green recording and it wouldn't have been ideal to say that Snowy played lots of lead guitar if this was really the case.

I find some of the composition credits odd - "Slabo Day" for example must surely have had at least some songwriting input from Snowy - so maybe there is more to all this than we can see on the surface.

Don't get me wrong, I mostly love the PVK albums and I'm not trying to put Peter down or anything. It's just that nothing connected with Peter can be taken simply :)

Amen to that!

With all respect, I do believe Mike is wrong. I has to be Peter playing that solo on the song "Whatcha Gonna Do". Anybody?

Daniel

I agree with you Daniel!
It's definitely Peter's PVK-era style

Well,

I agree with you all that the guitar playing on "Watcha Gonna Do" just sounds like Greeny, but sometime I tend to believe in Mike Green's opinion.

Also sometimes it's difficult to understand who plays every single solo:

For istance:on "In The Skies", the second solo on "Seven Stars" sounds very much like Snowy White.

We all know very well that Snowy certainly played lead guitar on "Slabo Day".

Now we have a rehearsal version of the same track from Snowy White's "Gold Top" and according to Snowy sleeve notes, he played lead guitar with a "still uncertain" Pete Green on rythym guitar. Even so, when Martin Celmins heard this track, he told me he was 100% sure that "that was Greeny on lead guitar, his playing being 95% quite plain and 5% absoluty brilliant ".

Any input is as always welcome

Mario.

Thanks for the inputs! :)

About "Seven Stars" - I know that the "In The Skies" cover says that it is Peter, but I am not so sure... I think it's a bit too ... "powerful" (if you know what I mean) to be Peter's playing from the PVK era. But again, maybe it really is Peter. :shrug:

To my ears it is Snowy playing lead guitar on both versions of "Slabo Day"... By the way, does anybody know what the word "Slabo" means?? Anything religious? :confused: After all much of the record is centered around Christianity...

Daniel

I am fairly convinced the playing on 'Seven Stars' is Snowy White, in fact I made that point somewhere on this thread a while ago. Sometimes their styles are similar, sure, but I don't think Peter could or would want to sound THAT much like Snowy. Listening to Snowy's solo work and his work with Thin Lizzy, this particular solo sounds exactly like him.

As for Slabo Day - no idea what it means! I've often tried to find out, with no luck. 'Slabo' is a word used in some eastern European languages (google to see) like Polish, Serbo-Croat etc, but I don't know what it means. It might also be a first name in some of those countries. I've also seen it spelt 'Slaybo' which doesn't mean anything as far as I can see. Maybe Peter (or someone else) just made it up... :confused:

Hi bretonbanquet!

And thanks for your input! I'll have to see if I find somebody from Poland etc.. and ask them! :)

One person once said he thought "Slabo" was a Hebrew word...

I have to check with some of the "Language guys" at the University of my town. I would have liked to hear Peter speak more about that particular song...

Hi :wavey:

If 'slabo' is a Hebrew word, that would make a lot of sense, Peter being Jewish and all. Maybe there was an influence from Jane Samuels and her 'Jews for Jesus' Messianic Christianity stuff. She wrote all the lyrics for that album after all, so maybe 'Slabo Day' was her title. And Hebrew was influenced a lot by Eastern Europeans arriving in Israel after the war, so maybe there's a connection with Polish or something :)

Be sure to let us know if you discover the secret! :lol:

Yes, I'll let you know! But I'm not promising anything... :lol:
And it could take some time, as I am away on a holiday for the moment.

Daniel

daniel, dino, mario, thanks for the info and ideas. one thing i believe, pete's best 'comeback' work (playing and writing) is on in the skies. how much that had to do with his health and personal circumstances, and how much is attributable to the other musicians is an interesting thing to consider.

i believe that snowy white is the best and most sympathetic guitarist that pete has worked with since danny k. i tend to think to think that was a positive influence on peter's playing. and while it is well know that pete was a huge influence on snowy, pete has also spoke of his admiration for snowy's playing. so at time of in the skies it seems likely that the admiration cuts both ways and that pete's playing was influenced by snowy.

another observation that i think may be correct. pete's playing on in the skies is distinctly evolved and quite different from his work with fleetwood mac. all the subsequent pvk work is in a yet different style. in his subsequent comeback his playing is further evolved, but most closely resembles the post- in the skies approach (e.g., the title track from 'blues don't change' has guitar work that is a throwback to 'little dreamer' and 'whatcha gonna do' (the album).

anyway, i'm always hoping that snowy and pete work some more together, more extensively than snowy's guest appearance on 'time traders'. snowy is making a jazz influenced album. maybe he could get pete to guest on that one.

zero

Hi Mzero! :)

I couldn't agree more concerning Snowy White :nod:

And yes, I also think "In The Skies" is Peter's best album of that era. But I think his playing on the "Whatcha Gonna Do" album is extremely good! Especially songs like "Bullet In The Sky", "Lost My Love" and "Woman Don't".

I do also compare the SG songs and style with his later PVK albums, and I think his playing has become more and more inventive/creative!! Even more than when he was with Fleetwood Mac!!
And I think "The Blues Don't Change" (the song) is one of his BEST performances with SG. :thumbsup:

Daniel

I agree!!! In the skies is amazing, and you have to think that he was not well during the last part of recording it,
having come back from the States and his coke habit.
I bought the remaster this week, and the sound is better than ever. Nice sleevenotes by Celmins,
although they could have been longer. You hear more detail of everything.
Has anyone paid attention to Peter's vocals on these albums? I think he sounds great on "In the skies",
then he sounds like he has a cold or worse on the next two albums, while he does some of the greatest
singing of his career on "White sky", listen to "Fallin' apart"! Musically, I think those two albums
have the best bands too, although the material is a bit thin on "White sky".

Hi Dino! :)

Yes, I also had your oppinion about "In The Skies" and "White Sky", but I tend to like "Little Dreamer" and "Whatcha Gonna Do" more and more - especially WGD.

"In The Skies" and "White Sky" definitely have the tightest bands, and Peter's singing is much more confident on these albums. I also love his singing on "Big Boy Now" from Kolors. However, I like his singing on LD and WGD more and more these days, quite soulful. :)

"White Sky" was my favourite for a long time, even above "In The Skies". But in spite of a tight band, good singing and rocking songs, I don't think Peter is playing as good on this album (with the exception of "Just Another Guy" and a few more). Apart from "In The Skies", I now prefer the bluesy playing on "Whatcha Gonna Do". (I think "Carry My Love" from "Legend" is from the WGD sessions.)

I do think that Peter at the time wanted to do more of the funky music of "In The Skies" and the rocking of "White Sky", instead of the bluesy stuff of the other two albums. The bootlegs from that period consist of old FM classics, and new rather funky stuff instead of blues.

And I also think it is impressive, as you say Dino, that Peter managed to record all those albums in his mental state. :nod:

I would also like to take this opportunity to say that (independent of speculation about exploitation), brother Michael Green did write a whole BUNCH of superb songs!! And I look upon him as a much more competent songwriter than any of the Splinter Group writers.

Daniel

The last two reissues
 

Changes and good news for the two last Pvk reissues:

"White Sky":

Recorded in one week during May 1981, "White Sky" was Peter Green's fourth album for PVK. It briefly span off a road band of the same name, their personnel including a couple of the album's session-players, guitarist Ronnie Johnson and drummer Reg Isadore. Issued in early 1982, the original LP featured nine tracks:this reissue also includes all the album's outtakes, including a previously-unreleased vocal version of "Just Another Guy".

Bonus tracks:
Touch My Spirit
Big Boy Now
Corners Of My Mind
Carry My Love
Funky Jam
Just Another Guy (vocal version)

"Kolors":

Although promoted as a new album on its 1983 release, Kolors was a compilation of outtakes form Peter Green's 3 previous PVK albums, Little Dreamer, Watcha Gonna Do and White Sky (NB Kolors also doubled as the name of Peter's then current road band). This set re-sequences the album's original nine tracks chronologically and adds a further six bonus tracks, including a previously-unreleased alternate take of "Watcha Gonna Do?"

Bonus tracks:

Apostole (single version)
Rubbing My Eyes
Long Way From Home
Six Strings Guitar
You Won't See Me Anymore
Watcha Gonna Do? (Alternate takes)

WOW!! Thanks for the great news, Mario!! :blob2:

I can't wait to hear the vocal version of "Just Another Guy", as it actually is one of my favourite Peter Green instrumentals .. along with "Rubbing My Eyes". Highly underrated stuff!! I see that Sanctuary lists "Just Another Guy" (instrumental) two times in addition to the vocal version... just a mistake I guess.

I'm a bit surprised that "Carry My Love" and "Touch My Spirit" are listed as "White Sky" outtakes. I would have guessed that they came from the "Little Dreamer"/"Whatcha Gonna Do" sessions. And it still puzzles me why they didn't put "The Apostle" single version on the "In The Skies" album. :shrug: But this is FANTASTIC news!!!

I wonder what will happen to the "Legend" version of "Bandit"...

Daniel

yes, thanks for the info mario as always

i was thinking i'd have to pass on the reissues but they've done it now. this is the way to entice jaded individuals, such as zero, to fork over the cash- add liner notes with previously unknown session details and the unreleased tracks.

note to sanctuary: be sure to save a few unreleased tracks in the can so you can take zero's money again a few years from now with some 'new' reissues.

that's ok if somehow some of the $$ make their way to our hero so he can afford those cools shades and strings for his guitars.

zero

The Greeny PVK re-releases (the 3 first) were reviewed in this month's
Uncut. In the skies and Little dreamer only got 2 stars, Whatcha gonna do one star. I was kind of miffed, I'd give In the skies 4 stars and the others 3.
But the reviewer seemed to compare them against Greeny's F. Mac output,
which I don't think you should, except possibly in the skies.
By the way, the last two reissues are coming out here on July 4th,
though not on Castle, on Playground. I will pick them up as soon as possible

/dino

Break?
 

Does anyone here know if the "Whatcha gonna do" reissue lists track 6 (correctly) as "To break your heart" (as opposed to "...breave..." like the old Castle issue lists)?

John

No, it's still "to breave"...
You would think that they could have got that right at least.
The track is obviously called "to break your heart", it's on
the original LP.
By the way, my White SKy lp says PVK records, so maybe that is also a PVK album.

Well,

I must say that my copy of "White Sky" on vinyl (UK pressing) is on "Headline", but it was licensed by PVK Records

Mario.