What Was Lindsey's Issue With The Musicares Walkout Music?
 

And what did he do in response?

After watching the video of Stevie's speech, I can't imagine the alleged smirk amounted to anything at all. I'm thinking it had to be more how he handled this walkout music issue. Seems like a small thing over which to pitch a fit.

In retrospect it might have been a good idea if, in 1997, or at least in 2001, they had signed an agreement that the band could not go on without all five members, minus any who left voluntarily or passed away.

Ben, you could read this entire board and not come away with a satisfactory answer. Try reading this:

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment...410-story.html

Smirking, calling a band gig a cash grab, not walking a thin line - we will not "know" until the law suit is figured out, and probably not then either. But read on.

the only place where anyone from the 5 FM members or anyone official talked about the walkout music for FM at MusiCares is Lindsey's interview with Rolling Stone here https://www.rollingstone.com/music/m...firing-733460/

here is the quote from that article specifically addressing your question:

But on the phone, Azoff had a list of things that, as Buckingham puts it, “Stevie took issue with” that evening, including the guitarist’s outburst just before the band’s set over the intro music — the studio recording of Nicks’ “Rhiannon” — and the way he “smirked” during Nicks’ thank-you speech. Buckingham concedes the first point. “It wasn’t about it being ‘Rhiannon,’ ” he says. “It just undermined the impact of our entrance. That’s me being very specific about the right and wrong way to do something.”

that interview and the article that links to the lawsuit here https://www.rollingstone.com/music/m...m-band-736063/ is the most extensive information we officially got.

i can tell you also the rumors part - but that's just stories through the grapevine that have not been officially told by band members: basically there was not supposed to be any music playing (other than crickets maybe?) as FM was walking on stage at MusiCares. instead, somehow Rhiannon track was given to the organizers to play over loudspeakers right before the band was going to launch in The Chain. it is unclear why and how that happened, but LB was not happy that it did (as he says in the RS interview too). some speculate that it was Karen/Stevie's way to gaslight LB because SN wanted him out of the band and needed a last straw.

LB was upset that a SN hit was used as the walkout music for a band award. He wanted The Chain

Sources? I've never heard that before.

nope. read my post above. he didn't want any walkout music. as they normally never use any when they are walking out on stage. #crickets

Stevie fan(tasy)
 

Doesn't that contradict his remark that "it wasn't about it being Rhiannon?"

If he considered himself the band's musical director, then it figures that he would want the final choice about the musical texture of their performance, including their entrance on stage--and the idea of a brief, abortive clip of Rhiannon followed by them playing The Chain sure sounds peculiar enough to warrant putting his foot down. Putting aside the (possibly accurate) conspiracy theories about LB being set up by the Stevie camp over this issue, you could simply speculate that it was about Stevie wanting/needing the atmospheric context of some introductory music (like all the music she listens to before a performance), either to pep her up or to invigorate the tuxedo crowd or both; whereas Lindsey was presumably thinking "Let's keep them in suspense, then work them up slowly with the magic of their actual performance of The Chain."

As for "Rhiannon" being untenable to LB because it's a "Stevie hit," that's silly--Lindsey helped craft that song back in the early BN days (if anyone wouldn't like it for reasons of provenance, it would be the non-BN members of the band); and even if we assume that "Rhiannon" should be construed as unduly representative of Stevie rather than the rest of the band, then wouldn't she be in the wrong to be insisting on it being used as the walk-in music in the first place?

he didn't "consider himself" - that's what his function was. i've attended numerous Mick m&gs in 2013 (unfortunately!) and he was asked the question about who FM's musical director is numerous times, usually by eager SN fans. he would always say LB. sometimes they would not believe it (as they tend to do!), and would keep asking whether he is sure, and how come not Stevie. he would look at them exasperatingly and say - no. Lindsey.

and yes, swapping Rhiannon for The Chain not only contradicts Lindsey's story but also every behind the scenes insiders' version we've heard from other band members camps since february. it's a conjuncture from reading through the story fast.

:laugh: lol

Have those dolts listen to her ~artistic piano plonking~ on the making of Rumours.:blob2::blob1::blob2:

The walkout music issue is odd. I am surprised Lindsey would care. There are 3 singers and only one song can be selected. For example, I doubt Lindsey was upset when they played Don't Stop when the Mac won the Grammy.
I just think it shows the level of pettiness for both Lindsey and Stevie. But I bet if we walked in Lindsey's shoes we may feel the same. Many fans regard Stevie as the lead singer of the band. I believe that still irks Lindsey and rightfully so. IMHO Lindsey made Rhiannon a hit with his guitar melody. He should be very proud of that song.

no. you are talking about a different thing. please read lindsey's interview statement and my comments above.

there are NO songs playing for a walkout of FM on stage to start playing. that's different than them receiving some award like a grammy and some of their music playing. here we are talking about the walkout music for them to start playing. like at the regular FM show. bands decide upfront and chose what to play. FM usually chooses crickets, as they are coming onto the stage (i think they still do, even on their current tour?). they don't play any songs, they play crickets. this is what we are talking about. not the music for them to come to the stage and receive the award.

this has nothing to do with WHICH song they played.

If you are serving Rainbow Trout for dinner, you don't serve it as an appetizer before the dinner. That's all he was saying.

Especially when they're serving +43yo sounding trout now, compared to what the audience got to hear on the walkout.

$he is going to wake up one day and really feel horrible for what $he put in motion.

Yeah, I know. It's bizarre that they played anything at all. Why would you play part of another song over the loudspeakers before starting to play "The Chain" live?

DownOnRodeo is right - Stevie would be in the wrong for insisting that, contrary to what they normally do, her song be randomly inserted there and played over the loudspeakers without asking the musical director or even letting him know.

Sounds like a power play to me.

Should Lindsey have kept his cool and not shouted at Karen, which is what apparently happened? Yeah, I can see that. Was it a fireable offense? Hell no. People raise their voices when they get upset. It happens. It's not like he smacked her. Plus, she has to take some responsibility for continually and deliberately antagonizing him.

But she won’t. That’s the problem.

You know I always cherished John’s line, “I meant, leave the room,” because along with the humor, I always felt a sense of regret behind those words.

There’s no regret now, only ego and hostility.

Many of the folks around her even folks that assist other band members have told me how $he's become $ouless and like a dictator.

All smirks must cease.

But let the waltzing continue :laugh:

Clearly, the smirking was some kind of smoke screen for seedy antics. Otherwise, the waltzing should have made her run at Chris and Mick with a machete.

I mean, I don't doubt that Lindsey probably did think they just shouldn't play anything at all, but am I the only who thinks maybe the fact that it was Rhiannon bothered him more? If he supposedly threw a fit over it, I doubt it was JUST because he didn't want anything playing. I think he didn't want anything playing and he especially didn't want a signature Stevie song playing. No one should underestimate the big power struggle between those two. If they had played GYOW or Little Lies I doubt he would've been as bothered.

I see what you're saying. I guess it's possible that the fact it was Rhiannon irked him all the more. Or maybe what irked him was that, somehow, Karen Johnston was the person responsible for instructing the show management to play it. Maybe Lindsey had decided earlier that he didn't want anything played at that point, got the band's agreement (except Stevie?) and Karen slyly superceded that decision. Is that out of the realm of possibility? In the 2003 doc, there's something weird going on under the surface with Lindsey, Stevie, and Karen Johnston—as if Karen and Stevie were periodically attempting to undermine Lindsey's decision making and strategic authority.

What elle and others said earlier also makes sense: No walkout music is needed for reasons of aesthetics, tradition, and impact. They walk out unaccompanied by any music for a standard concert. Many, many years ago, the Exorcist theme played over the loudspeakers right up to the point at which the band took the stage. But I never heard any music play while the band was being led out onstage by roadies in the dark. You can play a million old audience concert tapes and not hear anything but crowd noise before Say You Love Me or Monday Morning or Second Hand News. It's a hallowed Fleetwood Mac practice, and maybe Karen (with Stevie?) foisted herself into the mix unilaterally—perhaps even as a practical joke. "Lindsey's eyes would bug out of his head if we told the sound crew to play Rhiannon while we walk out." I think that's what touched off the fury—the battle of the dragons!

Another thing about musical director. It's an elastic title. One band's musical director might be another band's flunky—or at least butler. In Fleetwood Mac, the musical director has to be Lindsey. That doesn't mean he is making all musical decisions, but he's the person sitting with Mark Needham or Chris Lord-Alge or Mitchell Froom during mixing and mastering. He's either producing or co-producing in the studio. As such, he's the musical director. Studio authority spills over onto the tour. Onstage, he's lead guitarist, co-lead singer, and co-lead songwriter. It makes more sense for him to be musical director than anyone else (in the pre-Buckingham days, some newspaper articles indicated that Christine took control of the decision-making reins onstage, strange as it may seem). But even calling Lindsey the obvious musical director isn't a slight on anyone else because we need to ask ourselves (or Fleetwood Mac) what the musical director actually does in that band. Does he make the final decision on the set list? Does he order the set? Does he make sure the front-of-house mix is where it should be—in other words, he's the guy most frequently interacting directly with the guys on the soundboard? Does he help settle new keys for songs that need to be changed because somebody can't sing them in the same key as twenty years ago? Does he give critical feedback during rehearsals? In Fleetwood Mac, all five are going to make decisions, and any musical director or producer is going to accommodate them much of the time.

Generally, the image of the autocratic musical director is more pronounced in a situation where a bunch of session players have been hired, like with Stevie's solo bands. I think the title is very elastic and somewhat jokey in the context of a Fleetwood Mac, where each guy is a full-fledged member with an opinion and the right to voice it.

:cool::cool::cool:We need a smirk emoticon here.:cool::cool::cool:

I didn't realize Lindsey yelled at Stevie's assistant over the walkout music. You don't yell at someone else's employee like that. If anything, he should have asked Stevie to have a word with her assistant.

I'm starting to have a more mixed view of things.

For wall we know, Karen might have told Stevie she was going to quit if Stevie didn't do something about how Lindsey treated her, and Stevie chose to her back up her assistant rather than Lindsey. I wouldn't blame her for that one bit.

Did you watch the video? Karen has been getting in Lindsey’s face since SYW was recorded. If Stevie doesn’t like Karen in confrontations with Lindsey, she shouldn’t send Karen out to do battle with Lindsey. Karen does Stevie’s dirty work.

Exactly! He shouldn't have to take sh*t off some appointed peon!

What video? Is there a link?

I mean the Destiny Rules documentary.

‘Karen is dead honest. Karen is dead honest.”

Maybe so (does anyone have an example or examples?), but even still that's different. It's one think for an assistant to relay a message from her boss (that's her job). It's different to yell at someone else's assistant (you take it up with the boss).

Unless there was some understanding to the contrary, it's completely inappropriate.

Yes, Stevie and Karen were admonishing Lindsey for failing to get a mixing session scheduled. If I recall correctly, Stevie was the one who raised the issue.

read David's analysis about Stevie - Karen - Lindsey dynamics. then watch Destiny Rules document. then come back and analyze.

you really need to read up on your FM info, man. :laugh:

They were in no position to admonish him and it was about signing a contract. Stevie wanted Lord-Alge and he didn’t. Either way, no need for Karen to be involved. It was a conversation for Stevie and Lindsey or their managers, not her assistant. But she uses Karen for that.

if that employee behaves like an equal member of the band, which they are not? because that clearly irked Lindsey in DR doc - and it must have gotten only worse over the years. "Karen is telling ME?!?!?"

and, we don't know whether he yelled at Karen. we are just speculating.

we told you the facts. now you are getting off on speculations. :laugh:

I could see Lindsey, or anyone, being always annoyed AF at Karen (and with very good reason).

That’s it, if you can reach the boss of that person. If she’s sorrounded by her yes-people and all you can get is the assistant, then you deliver the message to them. :shrug:

Karen told Stevie: it’s me or Lindsey? Please!! She knows and Lindsey knows and Stevie knows she will choose Karen. So there’s no need to do that and I’m sure that threaten didn’t cross anyone’s mind