Needham vs. Lord-Alge / SYW
 

For all the back and forth in Destiny Rules over who would mix the album, to my ear Lord-Alge ("Destiny Rules") and Needham (everything else) are not particularly distinguishable from one another. "Destiny Rules" is generally mixed like the rest of the songs.

What does everyone else think?

Three other things:

1. This is a great album.
2. Boy did they pick the wrong songs for singles, and the wrong song for the title track.
3. Notwithstanding Lindsey's claim that starting with Mirage they wouldn't let him experiment, he sure does a lot of it here and on Tango.

Lindsey should have released his songs as original Gift of Screws, as intended. that amazing collection of songs is watered down by being sprinkled over several projects, with not all songs even being out yet. original GOS was a near masterpiece. :nod:

These gifts we bring...
 

Yes--his gift (to us) got screwed (by Stevie and Mick).

I agree this is a great album, I do think SYW was a great title track. I know much has been made about "friction" during this one, and people say it was apparent in the DR documentary. I don't see it at all--I actually think they all appear to be getting along great--yes I am sure some things were scrapped for the cutting room floor, but I just don't see the drama, save for the one conversation with L,S,K.

The lack of Christine really killed it for me. That said, fifteen or so years on, there are a handful of tracks I think are worthy: Destiny Rules, Thrown Down, BTLH, SYHA and Say Goodbye.

It is funny you know, so many people say Say You Will needed more Christine, but no one ever says Buckingham/McVie needed more Stevie.

Hm, I wonder why?

They should be playing Thrown Down on the current tour. They could spin it as being about Lindsey's departure. Thrown Down by the woman he brought into the band. Could even dedicate it to Lindsey.

Actually people have said it could have used Stevie. "I could hear just where Stevie's voice should have been on this track" etc. Oh well, wasn't meant to be. I could have used more Christine to be honest. I felt like she was terribly underutilized on many tracks.

CbBen, what song would you pick as the title track (assuming the title had to be one of the tracks)?

I like their choice of Say You Will but I haven't given others much thought. This could be a good poll idea.

"Destiny Rules"

Personally, I missed Christine so very much on SYW, but not only her playing, singing, or her melodic songs brightening the mood. I missed all of that, but much more. Without her, noone hold the egos of Stevie and Lindsey in check, noone dared to tell them when an idea was just not good enough, a song too long, lyrics too stupid or too mean. Noone filled the harmonies, or even considered giving the record a wholesome sound and atmoshere. Instead, we got two solo albums mixed together. I couldn't listen to the album without thinking: "How good would that have been with Christine on board, bringing out the best in both of them", because the album suffers from the fact that Lindsey and Stevie tend to bring out the worst in each other. There are some good songs on SYW, but they are mostly solo songs with a great rhythm section.

On Buckingham/McVie all the elements I missed on SYW are there. That album is testament of what Christine McVie did for FM without ever getting the recognition she deserved. You can hear that Lindsey respects ther, they both value the other one's contributions, you hear the good time they had in the Studio, with Mick and John. That gives the record a calm, friendly feeling, the opposite of the rather aggressive vibe that SVW gave me. It's just a beautifully done coherent album.
I only kinda missed some Stevie background-singing goodies, her voice is so interesting when used to highlight or accentuate the other two's songs. But as a songwriter, Stevie has not moved me for decades, her demo vaults must be totally empty by now. I wasn't expecting anything good from her anyway. I do understand why she didn't want to participate, she knew that both Chris and Lindsey would have crushed her with their talent, their compositions, Stevie couldn't let that happen.

This is a very good point. I always struggled with WHY Stevie is avoiding them and the whole recording thing, never really sat down and thought it through, but this makes perfect sense.

It could also be as simple as her standing to earn more money on the road than in the studio.

She's a true artist without having to talk about what an amazing diva or genius she is. That's what I love about the core of FMac. They do vs. talk.

She could have pulled 3 of those songs from the 24 Karat collection. Who cares if they weren't new. They weren't heard before by most people. Hell, lots of tracks on FM albums were songs she had written years before.

I agree with you 100%, but she would care if she didn't look capable of writing anything new, ESP in front of Lindsey and to some degree Chris. I really believe that. She's sooooo concerned about her image 24/7.

you seem to be agreeing with what Lindsey is saying. Lindsey and Christine still have the creativity and the drive. by all evidence from the last 10+years, it seems Stevie does not.

#vitality

and that's exactly Lindsey said in that Stereogum interview.

for some completely unclear reason, people have been jumping on him ever since, accusing him on "getting personal" without elaborating how is not being creatively vital anymore a personal attack.

Criticizing her work isn't necessarily ill-advised, particularly now that he's out of the band. But here it was in the context of speculating publicly about her state of mind. That's what I found ill-advised.

I'm over Lindseys recent comments. In short: it wasn't what he said, it was when and how he said it. And that he threw Christine under the bus to make his point was uncalled for. Chris is a precious unicorn and has to be respected, protected and worshipped at all times. Lindsey should have left her out of this.

As a matter of fact, I'm not fond of Stevies solo career since she published TOSOTM. She still had some rare moments of decency (TISL), but her solo work since RAL has been mediocre (24 Carat gold) to cringeworthy (SA) or just plain intolerable (the track Desert Angel :eek: and that awful album with the f***ing horse on the cover). That has to do with her surrounding herself with "Yes, Ma'am" people. Dave Stewart for gods sake, how was that even possible? :shocked:

With FM, she fared a little better, but imho that has to do with the band being critical and honest in their opinions. She HATES that, which amuses me to no end.

There is so much to mock about Stevie, bust still, I've followed FM since 1979, FM with her in it have formed my musical taste and her songs, especially the recorded live versions up to TITN hold a special place in my heart. She was all beauty and intensity back then, I loved it. So it's a habit to like her, I still do, also for the magical live concert moments in 2003, 2009 and especially in 2013, where she basically blew me away.

But in 2015, she angered me, we payed so much money for front row tickets and she was upset about something and did not even try to be professional. Chris and Lindsey stepped in and saved the concert. She did some awkward posing I hated, and she behaved like a spoiled brat onstage, which I hated even more. As a consequence, I won't see them next year, I can't be bothered with the 2 new guys and won't risk another disappointment. I know that theyare good players, but the playing is kinda slow, too slow for my liking. Mick won't see my money this time. Also, I won't pay to hear "Free Falling" during a FM concert. That's just plain BS :mad:. Part of me is very sad about this, it's the first german tour that I won't attend since 1990 and I will not be seing Christine up close and wave a banner saying "We love you" in front of her, that's regrettable.

The #vitality thing - Noone has as much manic energy as Lindsey, but from what was recorded and what the critics write, it seems that Stevie actually put some effort into it and works hard this time. While I'm sure this comment came from him hurting, imho it was not appropriate and again, Christine is collateral damage of his cutting comments, her energy is not what it was, either. Also, I feel that he damaged his own reputation with the snide comments, it was a bad idea to go there.

this was why she asked the band for an extra month before going into the studio for SYW. During that month she wrote 3 new songs. Mick even talks about it in the doc-- how she didn't want to just come in with old stuff, she wanted t come in with new songs because she knew LB would have new songs.

Now I'm forgetting, I think the new ones were Silver Girl, Illume, Say You Will . (Thrown Down was already written during the previous tour).

except, it is very possible that Christine told him to make it public, what she wrote. and he would be throwing her under the bus if he didn't say it. :nod:

again - you and others seem to be talking about physical energy. i guess people are just too literal?

that is NOT what he's talking about. he is talking about creativity.

you mean the reputation about being boring person talking about organic cycles? :laugh: sure, that reputation is badly damaged now!

but if you ever met him, you'd know that he's very much a straight talker in person. which at the time when everything was boring cycles, everyone wanted him to be. well, now he's himself. many people were surprised when they actually met him at recent m&gs. i like Chris' dry humor and straight talk, and i like Lindsey's. but that might be just my personality.

I mean his reputation as a brilliant, underrated guitarrist with an unpleasant personality and an ego problem. Add his supposed girl-friend abusing (see that I wrote "supposed") that still follows him and has already cost him so much. So imho his reputation was never that good.

I do think that most people, including myself do associate #vitality with physical energy.
i feel that both definitions are not flattering towards Stevie and to an extend towards Christine.

She could have said it herself, then. Or he could have said that she wanted him to make it public. I kinda feel that Christine is not the person who would share such a personal note with the world.

yes, because others talked and he stayed quiet. didn't exactly helped his reputation, right? especially his famous ex talked trash about him and continues to. even when receiveing what she claims is the best thing ever happening to her, she can't resist a dig at him. :shrug:

so you want him to continue just taking all that lying down and not saying anything. because it worked so well for him so far, didn't it? you just listed the littany of bs that has been pinned on him, and we really have no idea whether any, all or none of it is true. meanwhile, in personal contacts, he continues winning people over. and people who never met him insist they know better and that all the trash is true.

she did say it - on CBS. they cut it out. then she said it in RS interview again. but that's just in the audio i believe, and people keep glossing over it. it seems pretty obvious she wants it out. what do you think, that she's afraid of Stevie chopping her head off if the fact that Chsritine wants Lindsey in the band is public? :lol:

there may have been tons more very personal stuff in that note for all we know. there probably was. all he shared is what she probably wanted him to. yet you and others insist that you know better than the 2 of them what they want shared. :shrug:

I wrote down what I know about his reputation. I do believe that he mellowed out to an extend and that he is far happier than he was back then. He was never any good in the publicitiy department and I personally feel that he came off jealous and mean spirited, especially with Stevies HoF introduction pending. That said, the BS that some fans fabricated about him and especially about his wife who has never been anything but supporting and loving is actually disgusting and has me up in arms for decades by now.

I think that Christine would squish Stevie with a single cutting remark. :D

Lindsey has an immense amount of respect for Chris. As soon as I heard those comments, I immediately thought to myself "Chris told him to say this." He would never throw Chris under a bus.

Agreed. He would never do that to Chris.

Now $tevie, he'd throw that old goat under the bus, run over her, back up several times and do it again. As would I, and many others here these days.

I totally agree--Christine wants her name cleared. I think she knew LB would reveal something around the email and she's totally fine with everything he said. I am one of the few who thinks she actually needs to be held accountable for her actions (or lack of) so I 100% agree, CM is totally cool with what he said. #desperatechiffonheads

"Red Sun" would be a killer FM song. On Buck Vie-the only song I missed Stevie on is "Red Sun"

She would have helped "Lay Down For Free" which, frankly, I'm surprised the band didn't use for Extended Play.

I don't like the engineering on most of the album. The treble is bolstered over the bottom end, the sonics are so overcompressed that your ears ring, the layering is too busy (things aren't delineated the way they were on Rumours and Mirage), the drums are weak (which might be a result of emptying out the bottom end), the panning is amateurish, and the cheesy phaser effects don't need to be there at all. Sounds like the entire damn thing was mixed by guys wearing headphones. (For Rumours, they mixed with top-quality speakers.) Say You Will doesn't lie across the entire stereo spectrum cleanly like the old Dashut and Caillat work. When you listen to it, you have to EQ it track by track to your liking—and that's only a partial fix. (The album totally sucks in the tightly confined cabin of your car, as you may have noticed.)

Too much clutter on each track, too, probably a result of high-processing computers with all their bits and bytes. Every hole is filled in with data.

I wasn't sure if you were commenting on SYW or BuckVie, but in some ways it doesn't matter because many of the issues are the same on both. :eek: :(

The difference for me though, is that I love BuckVie, but could barely tolerate SYW.

BuckVie is uptempo and fun. SYW is depressing.

I've always found SYW to sound a lot like 2 solo albums shoved together. When I listen to, I listen to Lindsey and Stevie's songs seperately, they make 2 pretty fine solo efforts.

yes, I was talking about the technicalities of how recorded, not the content material.