i have a question about tusk........
 

i know you're all die hard lindsey fans......so i would just like to know if any of you know y tusk didn't do well? i know the tour did and well, cause this is FLEETWOOD MAC we're talking about. but y didn't that album do well? i just can't find anyone who can tell me. so i figured, come to the lindsey board and ask the lindsfans y tusk didn't do well! i mean, you are his fans and you would know y tusk didn't do well. right? i don't have any documentaries about tusk, just the quick photoshoot (funny stuff too!) but no one has ever told me y tusk didn't do well. so, do any of you know y tusk didn't do well? i've heard it's great, i've heard it sucks. i've also heard it was lindsey's album and that's y it sucks but that's only what i've heard. so.............y didn't tusk do well?

mimi:)

I would think it was basically because the general public wanted a Rumours clone, and they didn't get one.

Laura.

oooooooooooh i c!
 

they wanted rumours and they got lindsey instead. ok, but y wouldn't that do well?

mimi:)

"Didn't do well" is relative.

Rumours sold what? 20 million or something, right? How is ANYONE supposed to follow that? ANYTHING they would've released wouldn't have come close, so as Lindsey said, "why try?". "Tusk" sold a decent 4 million copies...of a DOUBLE ALBUM. Just because it didn't come close to Rumours numbers doesn't make it a "failure". Granted it cost a million dollars to make the album, it DID make a profit for both the band AND the record company so I don't understand this perception that "Tusk" "tanked".

BUT, one thing that DID hurt sales wasn't the music itself, but that the night before it was released to the public, Westwood One radio played the ENTIRE ALBUM IN ORDER WITH NO COMMERCIAL BREAKS (per side) People just taped it, they didn't have to BUY it. That lack of judgement probably cost a couple of million units in sales...people copying their tapes for friends, etc.

Just from seeing some of the polls and reading the posts here on the Ledge(s) over the years, most folks say that "Tusk" is their favorite Fleetwood Mac album. MICK & LINDSEY both say "Tusk" was their favorite album of theirs. (Of course, LINDSEY would say that!;) )

Re: i have a question about tusk........
 

So, what was that question again?

Chili, is 4 million copies still a current figure? I seem to recall reading somewhere that it was about 6 million.

Re: Re: i have a question about tusk........
 

:laugh: In case you didn't get it the first six times . . .;)

Barbara

Another factor was the cost - as a double album, Tusk was expensive at a time when the economy was going into decline and record sales were already suffering.

Supposedly, when Tusk came out, the record company put a $13 price tag on it (i think it was $13), whatever the number was, it was the highest price for a record at that time. That was one part.
Another, as ChiliD mentioned, was the radio station playing the entire album, in sequence, without commercials just before the release.
The most important factor was the music. To all of us, as well as many other music listeners, it was great. But to the masses, it just didn't appeal. The album was simply to challenging to most people who listened to mainstream radio (as Rumours was). The single "Tusk" was the wrong choice for first single, which should have been "Sara". To me, "Sara" is the quintessential Fleetwood Mac song. They probably had "Tusk" as the first single to give the public a taste of what the majority of the album was going to be like. It was almost as if the band, especially LB, INTENDED to be different.
Tusk, in all its supposed failures, still has moved 4 million units. Not bad for a double album...
By the way, the Tusk tour was a financial disaster, Mick managed it himself and incurred such tremendous overhead (coke and alcohol included), that there was almost no profit. Thus, the band canned him as manager.

Jeffles, I have to agree that the choice of first single was misguided. Come to think of it, there is not one Lindsey song in Tusk that would have made a proper single, considering the times. "Sara" would have been my choice too. It is a great, lush song with a wonderful arrangement. I shudder to think of what it would have become in the hands of a different producer.

On the other hand, releasing "Tusk" as a single, though not commercially wise, did show some integrity. It was pretty representative of the innovative nature of the record. I remember buying the Blind Melon album with the song "No Rain" some nine years ago only to learn that nothing else in the album sounded like that song. And that, as Mick would say, was "majorly disappointing."

Re: Re: i have a question about tusk........
 

I think tyshiria is enjoying her time here on the Lindsey ledge playing devil's advocate. Very subtle tweaking going on, & no one seems to have picked up on it.

Releasing "Tusk" as the first single was a great ballsy move, & it paid off. The single got widespread airplay, did well on the singles charts, gained a certain notoriety thanks to its marching band theme (even my parents knew the song) & was a critical eye-opener (the Rolling Stone critics voted "Tusk" the best single of 1979 in the magazine's year-end issue). The weirdness of "Tusk" paved the way for the off-kilter qualities of "Sara." I think the public was ready for a little weirdness, just not a lot. Oddly enough, the more conventional sounding "Think About Me" & "Sisters of the Moon" didn't get anywhere near the airplay that "Tusk" & "Sara" got. What does that tell us? Maybe nothing.

Initial public interest in "Tusk" was very high (as it was with "Trouble in Shangri-La") but waned by the beginning of 1980. Radio, after an initial enthusiasm, reverted to the older hits from "Fleetwood Mac" & "Rumours."

Jeffles, you're right about the tour not making a profit -- but that apparently was due to mismanagement & extravagance. The tour itself was a critical & financial success (Billboard magazine rated it as the top moneymaking tour for arena-sized venues for the year in the 1980 year-end issue). But the band members themselves just didn't take home a lot of money with them from it because of the high overhead. When you say the tour was a financial disaster, it makes people think that ticket sales were low & public interest was minimal, which is certainly not the case with that tour.

Re: Re: Re: i have a question about tusk........
 

no david not at all, i was just repeating myself, because for some reason, i NEED to make myself extra clear on these boards. and instead of having to reply to numerous posts saying the same damn thing over and over again, i did it all in ONE shot! so that's y i did it like that. just making myself clear. now, i get the feeling that i i should do a copy and paste on this post, but i'll let it go until i hear anything further. hopefully i won't NEED to.

mimi:)

Re: Re: Re: i have a question about tusk........
 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by David
Very subtle tweaking going on, & no one seems to have picked up on it.

Hehe...oh, it's not so terribly subtle. ;)

u know i just got finished talking to a guy here at work
 

and he was telling me that tusk didn't sell cause the album was too lindsey. his words, not mine. again, his words, not mine. ONE MORE TIME, his words, not mine. he also said that the reason y lindsey's albums don't sell is because he's too weird with them. they're all about him, and death and suffering and no one wants to hear that sh*t. his words, not mine. again, his words, not mine. ONE MORE TIME, his words, not mine. i personally haven't heard one single lindsey album. one reason, i can't find one single lindsey album. i was supposed to get the bootlegs of his albums from someone, but since that person won't even talk to me :( i can't! :distress: (and to that person, "hi i miss talking to you. please talk to me. you were like my best friend! i'll always love you!") anyhoo, back to the linds......the other reason is i'm not paying shipping and handling for it so i'm not gonna order it online. but anyhoo, he has told me that he got his first album cause he did like lindsey, but when he heard the first one, he threw it away. i couldn't believe that cause i've heard raves about it from you all, but i have heard garbage about it from others! and let me tell u, it's real GARBAGE! they were hating on linds like those ppl on the ledge that bash stevie!

oh well i'm just like totally shocked about all this. i couldn't believe that frank, that's the guy here at work, said that about linds, but hey, it's not like i've never heard it before.

ok bye,

mimi:)

Ahh, I stand corrected. Yes, the tour brought in much revenue and was a huge success. But, b/c of Mick's (mis)management, it wasn't profitable.
The reality is that if Tusk didn't come right AFTER Rumours, it would've sold a few hundred thousand copies or so, but following the biggest album of all time, it sold plenty more. People were so anxious to hear new FM music, that they coulda released they're own version of Mary had a Little Lamb and it would have been a hit. So the notion that "Tusk" (the single) was a hit simply because its such a great song it misguided. I do happen to like the song a lot, though LB's live version during his solo tour was better. Somehow, his 8 or 9 piece band generated more power than that huge USC Marching Band.
As far as Rolling Stone, that magazine shouldn't be taken all that seriously for its rock journalism. They gave little attention the LB, who was responsible for Tusk more than anyone, when the decided to put Mick and Stevie on the cover in early '80.

i couldn't believe that cause i've heard raves about it from you all, but i have heard garbage about it from others! and let me tell u, it's real GARBAGE! they were hating on linds like those ppl on the ledge that bash stevie!

Ah, and there we get to the heart of matter.

We all know the discussions of the last few days crossed a lot of lines and pissed off a lot of people. All of the fans of one artist are not defined by the behavior of an individual.

We can continue in an openly aggressive or passively aggressive Stevie vs. Lindsey manner for the next few days, like we have for the last few days...or we can decide not to.

As for the albums... I'm sure you know that Lindsey fans like them and talk about them all the time. There are a lot of people out there who aren't Lindsey fans and there are certainly some fans out there who even actively hate Lindsey for whatever reasons. The only way you'll really know if his material or Tusk is bad - "too weird," full of "death" and "suffering" and "sh*t" and "garbage" - is for you to listen to them and decide for yourself. They may or may not be your cup of tea.

oh no les
 

i totally come in peace. as you can see, i have not taken any part of those "i hate stevie nicks, i hate lindsey buchinhem" discussions. i've been a total good girl :) i started this thread to ask y tusk didn't do well, that's all. i didn't mean to bother anyone or piss anyone off here. i like lindsey like the next......well i like lindsey too here so, sorry about that.

mimi:wavey:

Tusk is absolutely my favorite Fleetwood Mac topic, more so than the whole Stevie-Lindsey soap opera.

Once I took my CD, popped into the player and recorded all the Lindsey songs to one side of a 45-minute tape. And wouldn't you know it? Those songs stand up by themselves as a fairly complete album; mind you, not a commercial album by any stretch of the imagination. But the album that is Tusk of course also has some great contributions from the other songwriters. I always dug the folksy approach Lindsey took to a couple of Christine's songs. You've got to wonder if she absolutely hated the idea when he first did it, only to get used to it. Of whether she still hates those songs now.

And the cool thing about Tusk the song is that it became a hit, then a classic, in spite of itself. I would put it up there with other unlikely hit/classics as Sympathy for the Devil and ... well I can't think of any others right now. But do you know what I mean?

Re: oh no les
 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by tyshiria
i totally come in peace.

If you truly mean that, then I have nothing but respect Ty. I mean that as well. From the gist of your opening comment and your initial follow-up, I was just a little suspicious. I don't imagine that the last few days have been lots of fun for die-hard Stevie fans in a couple of threads in particular, and the urge to want to counterpunch to continue the argument is pretty great. So I was just hoping to get a few things out on the table to try to head off another meltdown like we've had the last few days.

I take you at your word. :)

Re: Re: oh no les
 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Les

Quote:

Originally posted by tyshiria i totally come in peace. If you truly mean that, then I have nothing but respect Ty. I mean that as well. From the gist of your opening comment and your initial follow-up, I was just a little suspicious. I don't imagine that the last few days have been lots of fun for die-hard Stevie fans in a couple of threads in particular, and the urge to want to counterpunch to continue the argument is pretty great. So I was just hoping to get a few things out on the table to try to head off another meltdown like we've had the last few days. I take you at your word. :)

thanks les. no way man. there's no way i would come here just to start up junk on the linds board by stating how much garbage he is. i wouldn't do that. i know how you guys feel about linds and for me to do that would be totally wrong. i think all the junk being posted back and forth about linds and stevie is utterly ridiculous! and it should BE STOPPED! i'm totally on your side here les ok?

thanks,

mimi:)

I feel that way as well. I mean I think it's pretty cool how many fans really rate that as their favorite.

In addition to simply just being dwarfed by the sales of Rumours because it was such a monster seller, the way that Lindsey has been asked to defend his creative decisions on Tusk for a number of years has kind of inadvertently lent credence to the idea that it was this massive flop. He's been eager to do it because it's his favorite, but it deepens this sense that he's being asked to defend something that was hated, when that's really not the case, especially now.

Tusk is my favorite FM album.

I remember John Stewart saying that he thought "Tusk" was a great opening single because it was a good laxative for the radio constipation of the day.

I could imagine somebody just coming off of "Rumours"; poping in "Tusk" and waiting for another "Go Your Own Way" to come on, and to their surprise comes out "The Ledge." Whooooo, take that!

Re: u know i just got finished talking to a guy here at work
 

So . . .Ty -

"Y" do you think repeating the same phrase over and over is clarifying anything? I don't know how it makes others feel, but personally, I find it condescending, insulting and annoying as hell. I "get it" the first time - as I'm sure most of us do. So with all due respect, I'm asking you to please cut it out! If you need to clarify something then clarify - don't just repeat it and waste everybody's time. It's still not about WHAT you say, it's HOW . . .

You said you don't want to pay shipping and handling, but all three of Lindsey's albums are available on CDNow for $10.49 each. You can also probably find a great number of his album songs as MP3s for free download on many of the Lindsey fan sites (yes, he does have some). You might even find a Tusk song you like! ;)

Peace.

Barbara

Anyone who doesn't like Tusk is a...

well, entitled to not like it.

LMAO!!
 

LMAO!!! Man, that John Stewart has a way with words, dudn't he? LOL "Radio constipation"!!!! ROTFLMAO!! :laugh::laugh:

Hindsight is 20/20, so I think EVERYONE in FM loves Tusk NOW and realizes how great it REALLY is!! It really was ahead of it's time, IMO. And, best of all, it doesn't sound dated at all!! It's got so many different sounds to it, soft (Beautiful Child, Storms), hard (SOTM), funny (The Ledge's lyrics!! LOL), serious (Sara, Over and Over), sexy (Brown Eyes), sad (Never Make Me Cry), quirky (All of Lindsey's songs)! LOL It's a plethora of sounds!!

When I first heard 'Tusk,' I had a hard time digesting it.
Even though I had liked Fleetwood Mac since I was a wee lad, i didn't really make the connection and start buying their albums until 1986/1987, when I was 14/15 years old.

Having a typical 14 year old's rather meager allowance, 'Tusk' was one of the last Mac albums I bought at that time (well, of the 'Rumours' era incarnation), because of its price.

By the time I bought it, I knew the singles... but I had *no* idea that the rest of the album was so... "off-kilter."
And I have to admit it was a little off-putting.

Of course, I quickly took to Christine and Stevie's songs, which were more traditional in their arrangements, etc.... but it took me a long while to find an appreciation for Lindsey's tunes on the album.

And oddly enough, I had his two solo albums by then, and *greatly* preferred the songs on those to his 'Tusk' tunes... despite their very obvious quirkiness.
I guess within the context of Fleetwood Mac, i just didn't get what he was going for, but on a solo album it seemed appropriate.

Nowadays, I enjoy 'Tusk' completely, and listen to it rather often... though I admit that, for the most part I have not listened to the album in its original running order in about 7 years.

(I actually listen to all of the 'Rumours'-era albums in different running orders... which I posted once on the original Ledge boards.
I should do that again for the heck of it.)


Anyway, before I wrap this up... I remember a very cute interview with Stevie once where she talked about how much her dad loved 'Tusk'... especially Lindsey's songs. I guess Mr. Nicks "got it" from the get-go!
She also mentioned that her father has always been a Lindsey fan, which I thought was sweet, given the sometimes acrimonious history between his daughter and Lindsey. :)



Johnny Stew

Re: u know i just got finished talking to a guy here at work
 

omg. How annoying was that? how annoying was that? how annoying was that? :lol: Bye already !:wavey: :rolleyes:

Re: Re: u know i just got finished talking to a guy here at work
 

well sorry barbra but if you've been through what I'VE been through on these boards where you just have to keep repeating yourself over and over again, you might understand. actually, i basically just said this in one of my earlier posts, so i guess there's just no WAY of getting around this!!! :rolleyes: anyhoo, if you're annoyed by it then, oops my bad, but i had to repeat myself again anyway.

oh and thanks for the info on lindsey's albums. i didn't know that at all!

mimi:)

Re: Re: u know i just got finished talking to a guy here at work
 

ok so you're annoyed BUT, did you understand that they were HIS WORDS AND NOT MINE? just asking. some people here are a little sssssssssssllllllllllllllllllllloooooooooowwwwwwwwww!

bye already :rolleyes: :lol:

mimi:)

That was a funny comment by John Stewart and typical of something he'd say.
LB was helping John with his comeback album while working on Tusk. I believe his song "Comin' out of nowhere" (from "Bombs Away Dream Babies album) was about Lindsey. I've always admired their professional relationship.

Is there anyone else aware that the great Peter Green made an uncredited appearence on Tusk? He played the lead guitar on "Brown Eyes".
Has anyone heard Camper Van Beethoven's version of Tusk? They redid the entire album. I haven't heard it yet, but I have heard their music and its very good.
All this drivel about who is better, etc, is old. Its been going on for a while. Lindsey is better at some things, Stevie is better at others. Who would argue that Stevie is a better lyricist and Lindsey is a better arranger? You don't have to be too intelligent to see that...In fact, in a 1994 interview, Stevie Nicks stated that she didn't have Lindsey's musical talent. Lindsey himself has said she is great lyricist.
I think people (especially on the Lindsey board) are just bored that there isn't anything new or fresh to discuss.

By the way, what planet is the individual who wrote, "I come in peace" from?

rotfflmfao!
 

what planet? same planet as your mother lol! :lol: too funny!

mimi:)

jeffles, I feel exactly the same way you do about S&L. They are BOTH talented, each in their own way, each has strengths and weaknesses that seem to just smooth out when they groove with each other "like butter" to quote Linda Richman! No, wait, that would be "like buuuuuttah"!

I usually stay away from debates about who is more talented, because there is no way to win an argument like that.

I guess I am one of the the few people who really likes them both equally. I really feel, as it seems Lindsey does too, that Buckingham Nicks would have eventually made it big, though not as big as FM, which I also get the feeling would have been just fine with him. It also seems to me that Rumours was just an albatross around Lindsey's neck for alot of years, and Tusk was his anti-Rumours statement. Rumours was the catapult to the big time, but when they both got there it wasn't like they planned. so what do you do with something that is the symbol of your greatest financial success, and at the same time it is also the symbol of losing someone you love?

Well, you take some sound equipment in your bathroom and beat on a kleenex box and come out with Tusk.

What better therapy?
You're right......we do need some new stuff to talk about!

Re: Re: Re: u know i just got finished talking to a guy here at work
 

Hi Ty -
Sorry to have been so clueless about your past posting history since it's so extensive I haven't had time to check it out. As for Lindsey's albums, I think with a little more first hand knowledge of the subject there might be less chance of being misunderstood. ;)

And, at the risk of repeating Jeffles and Sulamith, while everybody's bored, restless and just waiting for new music, now might be a good time to catch up on some reading in the Blue Letter Archives and digging for some songs/interviews/performances, etc. we haven't heard.

I, for one, am exhausted with the S&L contests. :nod:

Barbara

no prob barbra
 

yeah i read that and i'm gonna check the archives right now.....well actually after i finish eating lunch. thanks.

mimi:)

"Is there anyone else aware that the great Peter Green made an uncredited appearence on Tusk?"

Yes. For more on that, make sure you read the next episode of Tusk: The Story Behind the Story in the Rumours board.

"Has anyone heard Camper Van Beethoven's version of Tusk? They redid the entire album. I haven't heard it yet, but I have heard their music and its very good."

I bought it as soon as it was released. There are plenty of rather irreverent renditions of the songs. Some zany takes on songs like Sisters of the Moon, Honey Hi and Angel. This album is not for the faint-hearted. It is nothing like the Rumours tribute, but if you know Camper Van, you probably have a pretty good idea of what to expect. My favorites include their takes on Storms and Save Me a Place.

Interestingly, and not to perpetuate this Stevie vs. Lindsey debate, but David Lowery, lead singer of Camper Van Beethoven and Cracker, said that when Camper started recording their version of Tusk in 1987, no one wanted to sing Stevie's songs. But they all loved Lindsey! The recordings were then shelved for years and forgotten about. But someone related to the band came across them a couple of years ago, and the members of the then-disbanded Camper decided to finish the project. Incidentally, Camper has done a bunch of shows recently, and I understand they have been playing the song "Tusk. When I saw Cracker in March, the Camper guys were there and they shared the stage with Cracker on a bunch of songs. It was very cool.

LOL. I'm really enjoying all the new ways you find narrowly avoid consideration for a "strike". :laugh: I honestly can't remember which comedian said it, but it works so well: "I try to find the boundary of good taste...and cross it as often as possible." I think some others...others...others...should take a lesson in craftiness from you.

And a quick word to Tyshiria - (in all honesty) please do try to keep from comments like "your mother". I would really hate to see this thread close with actual intelligent conversation going on like in the other thread that closed. There was come great stuff in there and, well, I'd like to keep reading new posts on this one.
-Brian

That's interesting about Peter Green. Where did you find that out?

Also, I could see why a bunch of guys wouldn't want to sing Stevie's very soft and feminine songs. Even though Lindsey's songs on tusk are very quriky, they are very masculine, so I can understand that.

Do they do the faking an orgasm thing when they do Not That Funny?

well that was a joke. and since jeffles (sp?) hasn't said anything to me about it, i figured he understood. ok? so.......that's that.

mimi:)

This and that
 

Wasn't the appearance by Peter Green on Brown Eyes just a few notes or something really minimal?

AND, I ordered Camper Van Beethoven's Tusk - twice I've gotten defective disk #2's - they had no music on them, so I'm still waiting to hear half the tracks.

Sisters of the Moon (on disk #1) is so funny I could hardly pay attention for laughing. These guys really have a good time - their take on Tusk is not for the serious or supersensitive. I'll bet Lindsey got a huge kick out of it . . .maybe I'll ask if somebody shows up in another Q&A session that would know.

Barbara

I know what you mean. Tusk was one of the last Fleetwood Mac albums I bought, simply because I had a hard time finding it on CD in this country and ended up buying at some US airport whilst on my travels. The first time I listened to it, I just sat there with my mouth open because it didn't sound like the Fleetwood Mac I'd become used to. It's not so much that I didn't like it, because I like a lot of diverse music... some of it would probably make your ears bleed. I had to give it another chance and listen to the music alone, outside of it being a Fleetwood Mac album. Maybe that was another factor in the whole sales thing, even though the sales figures weren't bad at all... music is often bought because people hear about it through word of mouth or through music journalists in magazines etc. If these people weren't giving it a second chance, they may well have said, "well, it sucks... don't buy it." Tusk is my favorite Fleetwood Mac album, BTW. :)

Laura.

Greeny did the guitar diddy at the end of Brown Eyes :)

Matt

Music Education!!!!
 

Hey Ty, I suggest you go to Fleetwood Mac's archive and
dig...to get some education on WHY... TUSK was different!
Fleetwood Mac guitarist ...Lindsey BucKINGham says..."It is
still my favorite album!" His non-commercial New Wave try!;)
Every great musician I know wants to move... Ahead!!! Sky :)