The Ledge
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The Ledge (http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/index.php)
-   Rumours (http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/forumdisplay.php?f=2)
-   -   Importance of Stevie versus Lindsey (http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showthread.php?t=57966)

secret love 06-12-2018 08:11 PM
What a joke of a thread.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by g. fish (Post 1230653)
To the casual fan, Stevie Nicks personifies the band. She is the face of the Fleetwood Mac "brand". Accordingly, she is the one that attracts the casual fan to Fleetwood Mac concerts.

The casual fan comes to see Stevie. But they leave the venue talking about Lindsey Buckingham and his incredible talent and stage presence.

We as hard core fans know that Lindsey is the creative genius behind the band. And yes, his guitar work is absolutely brilliant. But at this stage of the game, his stage presence is probably his most important contribution...especially since creating new material is no longer a priority to the other members.

With all due respect, Stevie and Christine are showing their age. Lindsey props them up with his high level of energy and charisma.

Neil Finn seems like a nice enough guy. And from what I understand, he is brilliant on a creative front. But I don't think he has the stage presence to captivate and energize audiences. It's especially tough taking the reins and sharing a leadership role when you're the new kid on the block.

And I understand that Mike Campbell is a great guitarist. Again, does he energize the audience like Lindsey??? Time will tell. My bet says no.

Mick and company should have learned their lesson in 1987 with the addition of Billy Burnett and Rick Vito. Both were talented in their own right. But even with new material, they never achieved a status beyond karaoke.

My wife and I have seen Fleetwood Mac 11 times. In addition, we've seen solo shows by Lindsey (6x), Stevie (2x) and Buckingham McVie (1x). Combined, that's 20 concerts in all. For me, the final chapter has been written for the band Fleetwood Mac. Sadly, they have squandered their legacy and lost their legitimacy. At this point, with their advancing age, I don't believe there's time to recover the Rumours lineup.

I do, however, look forward to new material and future LB and/or Buckvie shows.
The title of this thread drew me in because it sounded objective. But all you wanted to do was to find people who agree with your narrow minded viewpoint which is basically "poor Lindsey, Fleetwood Mac is dead" ...not using quotations to quote you but instead to indicate I am paraphrasing.

Fleetwood Mac is not dead. Danny Kirwan is dead, God rest his musical soul. I thought Lindsey had died when I read "Fleetwood Mac guitarist dead at 68" and I counted my lucky stars that a semi-current and potential returning member in Lindsey was still alive. But I have a lot of respect for Kirwan and Welch and Green, don't get me wrong, Then Play On and Mystery to Me rival Rumours in my book.

Anyway, it goes without saying, yes, I admit it: Lindsey was and still could be very important to Fleetwood Mac.
BUT: Fleetwood Mac lives on to sing another day, in another lonely way. Long live Fleetwood Mac!

sodascouts 06-12-2018 08:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovethemac1 (Post 1230771)
I hear you 100%. I feel the disappointment and sadness when thinking about these 5 may never end. And the surprise because of the happiness they used to bring me. All the memories of a lifetime wrapped up into 5 people who made music that was the backdrop to my life......sigh.
Hear, hear. It's even hard to listen to some of the older music now, both FM and solo. I was listening to Stevie's "Blue Denim" the other day and instead of just enjoying it, all I could think of when Stevie sang lyrics like "I promise you, I'll come back and get you" about Lindsey was that her words rung so very hollow now.

Forget trying to listen to "Without You"!

Angel75 06-12-2018 09:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sodascouts (Post 1230781)
Hear, hear. It's even hard to listen to some of the older music now, both FM and solo. I was listening to Stevie's "Blue Denim" the other day and instead of just enjoying it, all I could think of when Stevie sang lyrics like "I promise you, I'll come back and get you" about Lindsey was that her words rung so very hollow now.

Forget trying to listen to "Without You"!
I haven't put on any FM or solo music since...But I can't seem to avoid it....the other day GYOW comes on the car radio and walked out into the first shop to SHN.........F#*k my life

Dr.Brown 06-12-2018 09:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sodascouts (Post 1230781)
Hear, hear. It's even hard to listen to some of the older music now, both FM and solo. I was listening to Stevie's "Blue Denim" the other day and instead of just enjoying it, all I could think of when Stevie sang lyrics like "I promise you, I'll come back and get you" about Lindsey was that her words rung so very hollow now.

Forget trying to listen to "Without You"!
I'm with you there. What's happened has really tainted a lot of songs by the Rumours lineup - pretty much any involving interplay between Stevie and Lindsey. I've been listening to a lot of other bands as an alternative and am getting much more enjoyment out of their music. Whether or not their recent performances involved "play-acting", they've now managed to tarnish their legacy - probably irrevocably. :(

SteveMacD 06-12-2018 09:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sodascouts (Post 1230781)
I was listening to Stevie's "Blue Denim" the other day
Co-written by Mike, ironically.

Actually, Fleetwood Mac should do “Love Is Dangerous” because Mike should have to do a song Stevie wrote with Rick Vito for a change. It was always the other way around.

AliP 06-13-2018 12:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugar Mouse (Post 1230752)
Lots of people have said that the "Lindsey as victim" stuff is annoying ... and yes I've seen Fleetwood Mac live many times dating back to the mid-1970's. I saw them on Rumours, Tusk, Mirage, etc. tours.
Sugar Mouse, just curious what were your thoughts on those concerts you saw live? Honestly I don’t read many reviews from anyone who has seen a Rumours show, Tusk, or even Mirage. I’m a relatively younger fan only seeing them for the first time on Say You Will. Would you mind sharing a little bit of your thoughts or experiences from these concerts? I would love to hear about it! (Even if I’m the only one haha)

Sugar Mouse 06-13-2018 12:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AliP (Post 1230796)
Sugar Mouse, just curious what were your thoughts on those concerts you saw live? Honestly I don’t read many reviews from anyone who has seen a Rumours show, Tusk, or even Mirage. I’m a relatively younger fan only seeing them for the first time on Say You Will. Would you mind sharing a little bit of your thoughts or experiences from these concerts? I would love to hear about it! (Even if I’m the only one haha)
Sure thing. The Mirage concert is the one I remember liking the most (even though I'm not a big fan of the Mirage album) with the Tusk show a close second. So much energy, passion on the Mirage tour. The album had very little passion but the shows were awe inspiring. I remember Lindsey jumping around like crazy and looking like a cross between Joe Strummer and Mick Jones (he was talking a lot about The Clash in those days). I was a huge Clash fan back then so hearing those power chords in Sisters of The Moon is a memory I'll never forget. They basically made Sisters of The Moon sound like Radio Clash and I loved it! To me, they were at or near the top of their game back in 1982 for that Mirage Tour. The Tusk show was also incredible. Lindsey seemed really happy the night we saw them. Perhaps he was happy to get out after a year in the studio. Stevie was a different person back then. She was super animated and intense back then. I was a fan of the band before Lindsey/Stevie so I was used to a more serene bluesy experience and then I see Lindsey and Stevie so passionate on stage. Amazing shows. My memory of the Rumours tour was that I couldn't hear much. So much screaming. Like being at a Beatles concert.

DownOnRodeo 06-13-2018 12:46 AM
Sorry to beat a dead rat
 
I don't know why the Sugar Mouse is called "Sugar Mick".

Our honorable rodent friend is usually spruiking Neil Finn and claims to have inside knowledge of that camp.

Hence I suggest a re-Christening: "Crowded Mouse."

Sugar Mouse 06-13-2018 12:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DownOnRodeo (Post 1230802)
I don't know why the Sugar Mouse is called "Sugar Mick".

Our honorable rodent friend is usually spruiking Neil Finn and claims to have inside knowledge of that camp.

Hence I suggest a re-Christening: "Crowded Mouse."
I like Crowded Mouse. Thanks! :)

MoonSister75 06-13-2018 02:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugar Mouse (Post 1230715)
I don't disagree. They're different. Neil doesn't have Lindsey's passionate energy. However, Lindsey doesn't have Neil's warmth and wit. Neil brings a very high level of warmth and humor to his shows. Neil and Lindsey are both consummate professionals from a music standpoint. It will be different, for sure, but I still expect it to be great. And from a new music standpoint, there are few songwriters alive today as good as Neil.
Interesting that you mention his "warm" character - that's what I'm picking up most from the clips I've seen of him. I'm really interested to see the effect this has on the dynamic of the band.

bwboy 06-13-2018 06:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoonSister75 (Post 1230804)
Interesting that you mention his "warm" character - that's what I'm picking up most from the clips I've seen of him. I'm really interested to see the effect this has on the dynamic of the band.
One of the things I was surprised to learn from Billy Burnette's autobiography was that the band often jammed in their hotel room after a show- including Christine and Stevie! Clearly, the band dynamic was different with Billy and Rick than it was with Lindsey. I doubt the Rumours band ever jammed for fun after a show. I know some people want FM to fail, but I just don't see it happening. I have a feeling that Christine and especially Stevie are going to really step up to the plate, and Neil and Mike are going to, also.

aleuzzi 06-13-2018 08:30 AM
Getting back to the thread title, I’d say it’s 50/50. Lindsey was the one the band originally wanted because they could hear in his playing something that persists even to this day, a palpable, tense energy and creativity wrapped in a concise and potentially commercial package. We all know what he’s done—and could still do— for the FM sound.

But for all of that (and that is a lot) it’s Stevie's voice and presence that lured people in. I admit it: “Gypsy” put a spell on me, and though it was LB who transformed the song from a mere scrap of a demo into a full and unique orchestration, it was SN whose flash and charisma originally attracted my attention.

Once I was hooked on the band, I quickly assessed the reality: that SN needs LB more musically than he needs her. At the same time, SN’s celebrity (which is now a weapon) is so strong, the band’s continued popularity (as opposed to musical accomplishment) is tied to it.

gldstwmn 06-13-2018 11:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugar Mouse (Post 1230801)
My memory of the Rumours tour was that I couldn't hear much. So much screaming. Like being at a Beatles concert.
If you watch the video from Japan from the Rumours tour that's exactly what it's like. There are incredible versions of Gold Dust Woman and Landslide and during one song (Rhiannon?) Stevie literally falls to her knees a la James Brown. It was done for Japanese television I think but there are also hours of footage of them from that leg doing everyday things like waiting on a train platform to catch a bullet train. Christine was right, they traveled like a blob and it was a trip to see the whole crew standing there with people dressed for going to work and school or wherever. There also the Lindsey/Carol Ann make out session. The Japanese didn't even bat an eye. It's really a moment in time because we will never see them doing something like that now and after that tour I'm sure they never traveled that publically again.

gldstwmn 06-13-2018 11:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwboy (Post 1230805)
One of the things I was surprised to learn from Billy Burnette's autobiography was that the band often jammed in their hotel room after a show- including Christine and Stevie! Clearly, the band dynamic was different with Billy and Rick than it was with Lindsey. I doubt the Rumours band ever jammed for fun after a show. I know some people want FM to fail, but I just don't see it happening. I have a feeling that Christine and especially Stevie are going to really step up to the plate, and Neil and Mike are going to, also.
In the Skies the Limit video there a clip of Stevie, Chris, Rick and Billy (I think) standing backstage singing and I always wanted to know what they were singing but the studio track was playing over it. I wish footage from that shoot would show up.

Dr.Brown 06-13-2018 11:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aleuzzi (Post 1230810)
Getting back to the thread title, I’d say it’s 50/50. Lindsey was the one the band originally wanted because they could hear in his playing something that persists even to this day, a palpable, tense energy and creativity wrapped in a concise and potentially commercial package. We all know what he’s done—and could still do— for the FM sound.

But for all of that (and that is a lot) it’s Stevie's voice and presence that lured people in. I admit it: “Gypsy” put a spell on me, and though it was LB who transformed the song from a mere scrap of a demo into a full and unique orchestration, it was SN whose flash and charisma originally attracted my attention.

Once I was hooked on the band, I quickly assessed the reality: that SN needs LB more musically than he needs her. At the same time, SN’s celebrity (which is now a weapon) is so strong, the band’s continued popularity (as opposed to musical accomplishment) is tied to it.
Stevie's fantasy about her life and her "toxic garden" has now become a self-fulfilling prophecy. I'm sure that Tom Petty sensed this about her which is why, despite her continual pleas, he refused to let her join his band. Sadly, Fleetwood Mac became ensnared in this double-edged sword that ended up stunting their growth musically, eventually delivering a fatal blow to the band's legacy.


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