:xoxo: While I agree with you on most of what you said Sparky, I'd also like to add that right here Johnny Stew or someone else would usually point out that since Stevie hasn't been in large scale public favour (through record sales and media coverage) for a long time, it's possible that her songs wouldn't interest other artists because of that.
No one could cover a Stevie Nicks song to the same effect as Stevie did in the first place, and no one could cover a Lindsey Buckingham song without changing the effect, because then you'd have to change the careful arrangements too. There ARE obvious exceptions, of course, but in general they're trapped inside their own limitations, even though they always make great use of that.
Lindsey isn't all that much without his arrangements, Stevie isn't all that much without her voice. The only person in the Rumours line-up whose songs could be covered on a regular basis is Christine McVie, IMO. I know Johnny Stew doesn't agree with this, but really, what effect does a Christine song lose when its covered by someone else, other than the precious rhythmic keyboards and the voice?
But then it could be said that Christine's never had as fanatic and passionate a following as Stevie and Lindsey because she never left that much of a unique stamp to her songs, other than her performances of course. That's something I wouldn't agree with. We shouldn't speak of a 'unique stamp' here, she just never was as excessive or as "ego-driven" as the other two.
Esoterica reductica. This is similar to the point that I make when I start comparing things like "Family Man" to the Beach Boys' Love You album, that the song attempts for the same emotional effect as Brian Wilson did on that last BB album that he had the complete creative control of.
So what's the deal here? In order to 'get' every Stevie song you'd have to know details of her life and her personality? In order to 'get' every Lindsey song you'd have to know obscure pieces from rock history? What's the difference in this anyway?
Look at Johnny, for instance. He wasn't a fan when TITN came out yet "When I See You Again" was one of the things that made him a fan. Look at me, TITN was the second FM album I bought and "Family Man" never struck me as atrocious or emotionally distant, it was and still is a charming piece of music for me.
While it is true that fans are more often than not bound to have automatically a more rose-coloured view I do not think Lindsey and Stevie have gone totally to the artistic deep end. I think in general that the likes of "WISYA" and "Family Man" are more esoteric than many other pieces of their music. But that doesn't necessarily mean that one should be trained for them. It means that less people than usual can identify with them.
I think the question is emotional in the end; not every nuance or emotion that they squeeze out can be identified with. And that is a human trait if any.

Round & Round #7.
 

Easy to go with the majority. "Everywhere".

Finally...it looks like Everywhere is going to go. And it gets my vote again.

Everywhere.

Everywhere.

Since it looks like Everywhere is going to get the boot this time, I'm going on to my next pick, and giving BIG LOVE a BIG SHOVE. :)

I also can't believe the amount of votes Everywhere is getting, Bryan! I vote off Tango In The Night---which will probably be my vote for the next round because I love the others too much.

How different things can be... At the end of last year, just by chance I've listened to Say You Will, and it totally conquered me. I loved the sound, the production, but mostly, Stevie's songs, so much that I've decided to buy all Fleetwood Mac and Stevie CD's/ videos I could find (yes, now I'm broke of course, but very happy:thumbsup: ). Anyway, many times I don't know what she's talking about, I can't say to have much in common with her lifestyle (obviously), but I've developed in few months with her music an incredibly deep connection. My strongest passion is cinema and her imagery and poetry strike in me the same inner chords of my favorite directors.

Returning to TITN Sourvivor game, I can't vote on this round, I'm already mourning for Everywhere... :distress:

Romy

Seven Wonders.

Gerald, could I have some deep-probing analysis on why you think "Little Lies" is the ultimate housewives' song instead of "Everywhere"? ;)

I don't disagree with anything you said, however I'm someone... perhaps of a very rare few... who prefer songs that are "uncoverable."
I look at something like "Yesterday," and as terrific as that song is, it just seems so terribly devalued to me now, because EVERYONE has recorded it.

Same thing is happening with "Landslide."

For me, that damages the connection with the original songwriter, and the personal meaning starts to become lost.

From the very first Stevie album that I owned (and I should note again, before I had ANY knowledge of what Stevie was like, or knew anything about her life), to this day, my favorite songs are always the ones that are blanketed in mystery. The enigmatic, scratch-your-head-and-wonder-what-the-heck-she's-talking-about, songs.
The ones that no one else is the world could ever cover, because the songs are so extremely tied to Stevie.

I also like the fact that she writes about what she knows.
She doesn't try to write a song about the rainforest or Walden Woods... she writes about her life.
No, people won't always (if ever) be able to relate to that, but it feels more REAL and honest to me.
In my eyes, the few major missteps Stevie has made, are when she tries to sing about something outside of her realm... like laundromats.

It's ok that there are things that others dislike about Stevie or her writing. That doesn't bother me. Heck, I was looked at as if I had three heads when I first started getting into her at 13/14 years old, and my friends all thought I was completely nuts... so I'm used to it.
I just never get why anyone who does like Stevie, would want her to be something other than what she is. There are so many other songwriters who do a wonderful job of writing universal, straight-forward songs (Christine McVie for example)... but that's not Stevie.
I love her songs not out of loyalty or because I know so much about her life, I love them for the qualities that drew me to her songwriting in the first place. It's what makes her unique to me, and so much more appealing... in my eyes... than anyone else. :)

Round 7
 

Well, It's gonna be hard to vote, since I can't listen to the album anymore, cause Caroline is not on it :mad: I'm pouting as we speak! :laugh:
AAAAAAHHHHHH!
YOU KILLED CAROLINE!
YOU BASTARDS!!!!!

*sniff*

Ok, I vote for Big Love There's no big love left on the album anyway, with Caroline gone..... :p
Amber

That's not really true, Gaius. I think I understand why some of the things I've said, have lead you to come to that conclusion... but it's an incorrect conclusion. ;)

I wholeheartedly agree that Lindsey & Stevie's material rarely lends itself to "coverability" (which can be also considered "universality"), and that Christine's songs are far more likely to be covered.

For me, relatability IS a different thing from being universal. Which is why thousands of people can find great appeal in a particular song, but it will still never be loved across the board.

I related to the emotions Stevie conveyed in her songs, before I had any knowledge of her back-story. So it was never "I like it because Stevie wrote it," I liked it for what it was.

And, because of that, I DO tend to think that one can find things to relate to, even in Stevie's most esoteric writings... but that you have to care enough. If you just want to be entertained on a basic level, then you're probably not going to have much use for Stevie Nicks. Her songs require more of an emotional investment, in my opinion.

Maybe it's my personality... I don't usually have a passive enjoyment for things. Or an enjoyment for things that can only be taken passively.
I'm always more attracted to songs, movies, books, and art in general, that require more of an emotional investment.

But anyway, I'm just trying to say that it's not that I think Lindsey & Stevie's songs can necessarily be easily covered by anyone...it's just that, I feel their music CAN be appreciated by anyone who cares enough to make the investment. :)

This I couldn't possibly agree with more. :nod: :)

Me, too. Heck, I couldn't even understand some of the words, and I loved it. Because of just the music and her voice. But also it's weird to me how people talk about that they don't know what she's talking about. To me, her words are so emotionally evocative, and and her imagery so universal (lots of nature in it) that I easily enjoyed just the straight visceral emotional impact of the actual words. I dunno, it's like i always understood what it was like to feel whatever way she felt. Plus, her voice often sounds like she was about to cry or start screaming, which is pure emotional impact as well. I never hardly tried to figure out what it meant from HER life, i just soaked up the emotional content and applied it to MY brain, emotions, state of mind. I dunno, maybe being a Cancer it's easier to do this, but...

Regarding this point - hmmmnn - I didn't know her songs required more work and were an emotional investment. I guess i can kind of see your point. But to me, they ARE emotion, and require hardly any thought to soak up the immediate visceral/emotional impact of them...I feel pretty entertained on a basic level - in fact, the most basic level. Of course i realize there is more complexity there, much more - but to me it's the second layer, and the first layer easily grabs people.
AMber

That sentence definitely applies to me as well. I don't usually get into all of the, "she wrote this one for Lindsey" or "she wrote this one about breaking up with Don Henley" stuff, or "this one is about her stay in Betty Ford."
I have some thoughts along those lines, based on what I know NOW of her life-story... but my "first, initial feeling" is always still to apply it to my life and my own experiences. The way I did when I first started really getting into her.
I am, 9 times out of 10, always very amazed at the way in which her songs can easily be applied to my life, in SOME way or another.


Don't get me wrong... I don't think it's the ONLY way someone can enjoy Stevie's songs. Obviously there are songs like "Dreams," "Landslide," "Silver Springs," "Edge Of Seventeen," "Stand Back," "Rooms On Fire," etc., that people got into in a major way... but I think for those who are looking to delve a little deeper into her oeuvré than a "greatest hits" compilation, they have to be willing to make more of an emotional investment.

It's the same with Lindsey. Most everyone can enjoy "Go Your Own Way," or "Big Love," or "Trouble," but it takes more of an investment to enjoy... to that same degree... something like "Play In The Rain" or "D.W. Suite."

Ahh, excellent point - and you are right. In my forays outside (and even inside some) greatest hits, the songs have usually taken a bit longer to grow on me than usual. Great job as usual, JS! :wavey:
AMber

Little Lies just irons better.

I don't prefer one over the other. In no way do I take anything away from Stevie's songs that no one else could sing. I just believe that the true great songwriters of this century - Willie Nelson, the Broadway writers, the Motown writers, Arlo Guthrie, Dolly Parton, Lennon and McCartney, Joni Mitchell, Bob Dylan, etc - have written many songs that anyone can sing. That is why they are generally regarded as "great". They wrote what became standards and can be moving in other's interpretations. My contention is that Stevie set out to be regarded as one of these writers and the change in her songwriting style thwarted her ambition in this area.


I don't think the covers of this song take a bit away from the original or the power of the song. In fact, it is one of the things many of us crow about. "Look at all the people who cover her songs - she's a legendary and influential writer !"

I agree that this makes her songs unique, and is one of her trademarks. The downside is that it limits her appeal, and the majority of people actually don't get her more recent work. That's fine, I love some of those arcane, mysterious things too. But it limits the appeal of the art. For someone who has so often wanted to be known as a "writer", I think that she has shot herself in the foot and doesn't even know it.

I don't mind it. It can be seen as honest, revealing, and vulnerable. But one person's honest is another's navel gazing. To point out one recent example...How many people really care that Tom Petty wouldn't write a song with her ? It made great copy in People magazine as an anecdote, but made a pretty tedious song. Especially considering that she went ahead and had someone else write the music for it :laugh:


I submit "Jane", "Beauty and The Beast", "Rhiannon", "RTTG". "Jane" was a disaster. "RTTG" was effective, and the other two were brilliant. Why ? IMO, because she stuck to the story and didn't alter the POV to be more about her than the subject of the song.


More power to you !

I think we all agree that was a Klonopin moment.



I don't want her to be something other than what she is. I just wish she still was writing songs as well as she did in the period before TITN. She was able to balance the mystery and imagery with clarity in her early work - Dreams, GDW, Landslide, Beautiful Child, even Goodbye Baby. IMO, she rarely achieves it any more, for reasons I outlined in my other post. For the record, I am not gloating about it. I am not happy about it at all.

Voting Off...
 

Tonight is Tribal Counsel. And the vote show that Caroline has the most votes. Caroline please leave the tribal counsel area at once. All other head back to camp.

Tonights Recap
Everywhere - 19
Seven Wonders - 3
Big Love - 2
Tango In The Night - 2
Little Lies - 1

Remaning Contestants
Big Love
Seven Wonders
Tango In The Night
Little Lies
Isn't It Midnight

Voted Off
When I See You Again - 8/1
Family Man - 8/2
Welcome To The Room.. Sara - 8/3
You And I part II - 8/4
Mystified - 8/5
Caroline - 8/6
Everywhere - 8/7

Round 8
 

I am gonna go with Big Love till it is gone, I am hoping it will be this round.

I still vote for Tango In The Night.

As much as I hate to do this...

Seven Wonders. :(

-Kate

Now that I know all of the songs left (never got this album) I will actually begin to play and go with my sorry-but-anti-Stevie-as-usual tendency and vote "Seven Wonders" off.

I vote off Isn't It Midnight. And tell me... isn't it midnight, on the other side of the world? It's 2pm here in Japan.

And 77Rumours77... one of the guys in my apartment building here is from Wichita. Isn't that weird??? :wavey:

I see your points. I honestly do. There's certainly nothing wrong with what you're saying, or anything that I disagree with, per se.
I guess I'm just not someone who's impressed if 95 other artists have recorded "Yesterday," or if 57 other artists have covered "Knockin' On Heaven's Door," etc.

Like I said, for me, it just tends to devalue the song if anyone and their mother could pick up a microphone and record their own version. But that's just me. :)
I'm a snob when it comes to cover tunes, and I'd much rather no one attempted to recorded one of Stevie's tunes or those of anyone else in the band. I mean, yes, there are certainly a couple of cool covers out there, but for the most part, covers just make me cringe.






But see, sparky, I've always felt that every one of those songs worked (some to a lesser degree) because Stevie took material from an outside source, and related that to her life and her experiences.
"Beauty And The Beast," for example, is just as likely to be about her and a former paramour, as it is to be about the classic fairytale itself.
Same with "Running Through The Garden"... ostensibly she's relating the tale from Hawthorne's story, but it just as easily could be interpreted as Stevie commenting on the "poisonous" lifestyle she's lead, and how it kills the spirit of any man who tries to get involved with her.

So I don't see those songs as Stevie "writing outside of her realm," because, again, she has taken the outside source material, filtered it through her own life, and then reinterpreted it.
She's not singing about a "cause" or an environmental issue, or something like that.

I know others don't, but I honestly like the evolution in Stevie's writing over the years. I like the tone it's taken on, and the different ways in which she expresses herself now.
It's different from how she did it 25 years ago, certainly, but in many ways it appeals to me far more. But I can see where you, and others, are coming from, and why you feel the way you do.

You're not wrong and I'm not right... it's just personal preference. :)

BIG Love.....

Round 8
 

Well it's a big Big Love (that I'm voting off)

I'm voting Big Love

BIG LOVE

running out of options

Once again: Seven Wonders.

I think "Tango in the Night" should go.

Hillary

I vote for 'Big Love'...

Seven Wonders.

Seven Wonders.

I won't make a path back.

Round 8
 

I'm going with Big Love since I prefer the acoustic version.

Round 8
 

Voting off Big Love.

Round 8