Here's what I think happened:

1. In November 2017 Lindsey and the rest of the band reach an impasse as Lindsey requests that they delay their tour to Nov. 2018
2. With Petty having passed away and Mike Campbell now available, Stevie and Mick plan to fire Lindsey, but with Musicares scheduled must wait for the moment
3. Lindsey meanwhile backs off his demand and agrees to tour as originally scheduled, but it's "too little too late" as Stevie and Mick have already planned to fire him (and, after Musicares, do)

Musicares probably wasn't even the final straw. They just needed to wait until it was over before they could make changes.

So in Stevie and Mick's mind the demand to delay the tour was the impetus for the breakup, while in Lindsey's mind that's a lie because he had agreed before his firing to accommodate their preferred tour schedule. (The thing is, however, that without the Musicares event, the band would have probably fired him sooner, before Lindsey backed off his request to delay the tour.)

One thing's for sure: They should never have let him delay his solo album and tour if they knew they were going to fire him regardless.

Does anyone know how far in advance a band is told that it's going to win the music award? A month? Three months? A few weeks?

Another thing is for sure. The idea that a Buckingham solo tour would ever postpone a Fleetwood Mac tour by anything more than a few months is ridiculous. Even now, as an ex-member, Lindsey isn't touring for more than five or six weeks, right? Five or six weeks is nothing in Fleetwood Mac time.

These claims that Nicks made that his solo tour would keep Fleetwood Mac hanging for six or eight months are asinine.

It was announced July 19, 2017: https://www.grammy.com/musicares/new...es-person-year

And YET some people are STILL believing her while voting for her at RRHOF. Because it's easier that way. :)

I don’t believe Tom’s death and Mike’s subsequent availability was a significant factor in Lindsey getting fired. At most, it may have caused Stevie to have a moment of clarity about wanting to be happy, but there were underlying issues that had nothing to do with Tom. It was pretty clear, at least to me, that there was a battle brewing with this tour last summer, months before Tom’s death, when Mick and Stevie started getting into the deep cuts while Lindsey couldn’t fake enthusiasm for taking a break from LBCM (new music) to play a festival show with Fleetwood Mac (same old, same old). Delayed tour, solo album getting delayed, concurrent tour, not signing on the dotted line...None of us know exactly what happened, but the story line going back to 2013, but even more so last summer, made it clear that things weren’t good in Fleetwood Mac.

It’s unfortunate Mike Campbell became available, but there were other legendary, iconic guitarists available if Tom hadn’t died. They could have easily gotten Jimmy Page. He’s not doing anything major without Led Zeppelin and he’d LOVE to be back on the arena rock circuit. His first phone call would have been to his travel agent to get him on the next flight to Maui and his second phone call would’ve been to Robert Plant to say “blow me.”

I don’t think they had any control over his album getting delayed. IIRC, the original plan was Lindsey’s album was going to be released in early 2018, he was going to do a spring tour, and be back with the Mac for the current tour, but the label decided to delay the album.

I agree Tom's death is not a factor, despite many wanting to make it one.

But....Jimmy Page?? I mean, yeah, I guess if he didn't care what he played and just wanted to get back on a posh tour (reminds me of an interview with Michael Caine talking about various movies he'd done and why he'd done them and he said about certain films "I did it for the money" or "I did it because I wanted to work with a certain director and didn't care that the movie wasn't that good"). (to be clear, I think FM's music is good...duh!) Otherwise, I can't realllllly see Jimmy Page being a support player for a twirling chick -- both onstage and offstage, as she is indeed now effectively running the band and calling the shots.

Also, musically, I just don't see his playing fitting their hits. Sure, the old FM blues stuff, but really, you can imagine him trying to adapt his style to play the required bits on Dreams, Gypsy, Never Going Back Again, Little Lies, etc etc??????? Before anyone freaks, I'm not saying he can't play the songs, but the guitar parts on any FM song are more melodic and integrated into supporting the song, not about showing off scorching solos, and don't have big, driving chords (esp not Stevie's songs, where he'd essentially be playing the same one or two chords throughout).

He’s kind of in the same boat as Mick and John. Without a singer, he doesn’t really have a job.

Any worse than Robert Plant?

I get what you’re saying. The thing is, Zeppelin had that mystical side as well as the blusier stuff. Stairway, Battle Of Evermore, Babe I’m Gonna Leave You, etc. Plus, the violin bow thing would be cool AF on GDW.

When I first read that suggestion from SteveMacD I though 'what the ****?'
It was the most ridiculous thing I'd read in....ages.
But you know what....? its actually not that far fetched. I bet Jimmy would do it just to p!ss of Plant. Yes, he's pretty much idle at the moment. He loves touring. He loves the big life. Yes- I bet he probably would have said yes.

As Steve points out; Stevie...see Robert Plant

So basically, then, he'd be doing it for all the Michael Caine reasons. :)

Fair enough. I don't know the politics and band dynamics within Zeppelin so will have to defer to you guys on that one. But isn't it funny the sort of predictable relationships across most bands between the lead guitarist and the singer. I watched a recent clip of Roger Daltrey and Pete Townshend doing something together live and Pete couldn't help take a swipe at Roger -- something to the effect of how Roger never wrote any of the songs, how he, Pete, did all the work musically. Roger refused to be drawn in and just said, "I still love you anyway, Pete".

Not knowing the inner workings of Led Zeppelin I am only able to try and imagine it musically, and I still see FM as on the whole far more pop than Zeppelin and a weird transition to plug Page into. :shrug:

Google "Jimmy Page and Lori Maddox" and tell me again that adding him to FM would be a good idea. I mean, all the big Rock'n Roll bands had their share of underage Groupies, but Jimmy Page is one of the worst offenders (besides David Bowie, Steven Tyler and (this Rolling Stones bass-player who was so boring that his name escapes me all the time) Bill Wymann). Robert Plant is not available because he is busy with his own projects, he does not sit around waiting for a gig.

Equally bad was Ted Nugent.... getting his teenaged girlfriend's mother to sign over her parental rights to him and making him her legal guardian..... :mad:

I for one never said it would be a good idea....and I certainly do not know him or about him well enough to pass judgement on his behaviour with underage groupies. All I personally said is that I think there's a good chance he'd have taken the gig if he'd been offered it. I'm not sure Steve suggested it as a good idea either- again, I just think he said he'd have been available and there's a decent chance he'd have said yes.

Fleetwood Mac are far more 'pop' than Led Zeppelin... but Jimmy Page can turn his hand to anything. And its a job. And it would have been a middle finger to RP.

:rolleyes:

Funny how Lori doesn’t seem to have any regrets.

I can't even fathom the levels of delusion that are required for someone to genuinely think that Jimmy Page of all people would join Fleetwood Mac in the year 2018.

Hmmm. What makes you feel this way dreamsunwind?

actually not true. In the years since she began seeing it differently.

Just out of curiosity, this is what I found.

https://www.theguardian.com/music/20...knroll-groupie

I guess I don’t see the relevance of something that happened 46 years ago. It seems to me that most rockers of that era have done some shady things. Lori certainly never felt victimized and even got back together with Page briefly in the ‘80s. This point is just a red herring.

He can close his eyes and take the money with the best of them.

that's another guy's prerogative. the guy who's responsible for existence of 75% of all those songs they are playing.

Jimmy Page is an actual bigger name than anyone in FM. him joining (which he would never even consider, planes or arenas notwithstanding) would never sit well with the diva ruling that roost right now. :lol:

:thumbsup: and yet people keep bringing up that stuff over and over and over on these boards.

This answer in 2018?
Actually, she does have regrets, and even if not, she was under the age of consent. The story is so disgusting, David Bowie groomed her, took her virginity when she was just 14 and then passed her on to Jimmy Page. They both raped a child. And even if you want to see that as statutory rape, it's still a crime and was back then, too.

Except, what else is he doing? Zeppelin isn’t getting back together any time soon. Hell, he was in The Firm with Paul Rodgers, did an album and tour with David Coverdale, and did an album and tour with the Black Crowes. Of course he’d do it. Fleetwood Mac isn’t beneath him.

As for Stevie, it’s not like Page is a singer, so it’s not like he’d steal her spotlight.

It’s annoying. I try to stay out of that part of the discussions. I’ve blocked a lot of people -BOTH SIDES- on Facebook because they default to these cheap talking points.

:rolleyes:

Yeah, yeah…Look, I couldn’t care less about a groupie from before I was alive who said she didn’t feel like a victim and wouldn’t describe Page as a pedophile. It doesn’t mean it wasn’t absolutely wrong, but I just want to keep discussions to music and the music business. News flash: rockers were a-holes who lived like they were above the law from the gitgo, but especially during the ‘70s.

And the earliest Classic date was July 15, 2017 (although it was announced in March, 2017).

This makes me think that once MusiCares was announced, Lindsey thought he had some bargaining power re the 2018 tour, because he assumed that the band would not break itself up after receiving such a major late-career honor.

Days after MusiCares, Stevie and Mick proceeded as planned.

there's a big difference between saying "I choose not to care about that" which is your right, to saying "It wasn't a big deal" because, basically, "rock stars were a-holes" so that made it ok, and the idea that comments from someone who was taken advantage of if not outright victimized but didn't realize it at the time because she was just a teenager and because it was normalized by the very deviants who were exploiting her justifies anything is nonsense. As an adult woman looking back she did realize it was wrong and said so.

From a male perspective I get that it is more easily dismissible but as a woman who was around during that time period I can tell you the whole system was set up to ignore the exploitation of those young girls.

I get that you don't care, and I agree that this forum should stay focused on FM and their music, but intentional or not your "I don't care" answer smacks of dismissiveness and male privilege and can't go uncommented upon.

He's one of the most famous great, great guitar players of all time. People put him right up at the top with Hendrix and Clapton. From one of the biggest great, great rock bands. Is there a band aside from The Beatles or The Stones that was bigger than Led Zeppelin? There's literally no reason to think he would have any interest in joining Fleetwood Mac and play a bunch of Lindsey Buckingham parts on their greatest hits tour when they're all 70. As much as I love the band, it would be beneath him lol.

I'm sorry all this talk of Jimmy Page was kicked off by my aside "with Mike Campbell now available."

I realize now that I could have, without mentioning Campbell, left it at "they decided in November 2017 to fire Lindsey but couldn't make any move until after the Musicares event."

Jimmy Page hasn't toured in about 20 years. He has more money than Campbell and Finn put together x20 (at least).

There is no way he would have joined Fleetwood Mac.

Yes, they could have found someone other than Mike Campbell, but there is no way Jimmy Page would have joined.

Mick Taylor, formerly of the Rolling Stones, would perhaps have been a possibility, but Campbell (at least at this stage) is a better player.

i think that's very close to truth. if you find some actual proof of this, i'm sure Lindsey could put it to good use in his lawsuit! :thumbsup::angel:

Mick and Stevie were cavorting so much in the fall of 2017 and were seen all over the world together that people started being really curious about the new dynamic in FM when they regroup - with Mick & Stevie at one end and Lindsey & Christine at the other. but Mick & Stevie had something more sinister in mind beyond what anyone expected! :shrug:

With the exception of the shows with the Black Crowes, Jimmy Page doesn't play other people's music, and even in those shows it was still mainly Zeppelin tunes. No way he would do Fleetwood Mac songs as the main thing, with just a few Zeppelin tunes thrown in.

Not in a million years.

If he ever comes out of his retirement (which is going on 20 years now), it will be with his own music.

Don Felder (formerly of the Eagles) would also have been a possibility had Mike Campbell not been available (though, on second thought, I doubt they could have worked that out given the bad blood between Felder and Irving Azoff).

I suspect Stevie or Irving Azoff put the feelers out to Mike Campbell in November 2017 as soon as Lindsey walked out of the band meeting where they could not agree on the tour schedule. Something like "If you were to get a call next year about joining, might you be interested?" When Mike said yes, the plan was hatched.

...and that was exactly my initial reaction.
Then you realise he's idle not though choice but because he doesn't have a band to play with. More than anything he wants to write/tour/record with Led Zep but Robert Plant isn't interested. He comes across as quite sad to no longer have that in his life. He's tried putting his own band together in recent times but it hasn't come off. Of course he doesn't need the money but I don't think the idea that its 'beneath him' would come into it. He just likes playing live music to big audiences. Not saying he'd definitely have said yes, but I think there's a decent chance.

Yes, but his own music.

I agree. Jimmy Page has a status to maintain. An image. A brand. Mike Campbell does as well, but to a MUCH lesser degree. Page is a f*cking ICON. As big as Old Goat Breath... bigger.

I disagree, I don't think there would be any chance. He's Jimmy Page-- if he wants to go out and play he can go out on his own or form his own band or a supergroup or something. But he's not gonna hop onto the (sinking) ship of a band that is nowhere near the status of the group that he's synonymous with. That would be like if Mick and Keith got into some final fight and made it so that the Stones can never tour again so Mick goes and joins The Eagles. It would be bizarre.

Oh I'd say he's much, much bigger than Stevie. My foreign grandparents don't have the slightest clue what Fleetwood Mac is or who Stevie Nicks is but they've heard of Led Zeppelin and of Jimmy Page.

I agree, I think that could've actually made sense in theory but it would've never happened because of what happened with Felder and The Eagles.

Had Mike not agreed to join, or had he not been available, they probably either wouldn't have fired Lindsey or they would have gone with Waddy Wachtel from Stevie's band.

Nah. Waddy is a sideman. They needed someone with a big enough name to stir some additional buzz. Jeff Beck would have been another great choice, and he was just touring with Paul Rodgers and Ann Wilson this summer.

Is Mike really that much of a bigger name than Waddy? Waddy was lead guitarist for Carole King, Linda Ronstadt, and Warren Zevon.

If you are right (and you may well be), then I think they probably don't fire Lindsey without first making sure Mike Campbell is available and on board. Mike is sort of playing it off like he didn't know anything about the opening until Mick called him in March, but I suspect there may have been a call (or some form of communication) in the fall to feel him out and see whether he'd join if asked.

Jeff Beck is interesting. I wonder whether he would have committed beyond a single tour, if at all. The only other big names I can think of are Stephen Stills (CSN broke up at the end of 2015), Roger McGuinn, and Marty Stuart; but they are all on tour through November or December so probably none would have worked out.