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The Ledge (http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/index.php)
-   Christine McVie (http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/forumdisplay.php?f=20)
-   -   What's good for Christine is bad for Lindsey? (http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showthread.php?t=14099)

strandinthewind 05-05-2004 01:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarneVaca
DUDE, SHE WAS NOT THERE TO BEGIN WITH!!! You blast the man for leaving after he gave the band a masterpiece and you continue to praise Stevie for giving the band three pieces of **** and barely committing any time to the project.



Oh come on, no one is gorifying anyone's decision for leaving anything here. No one has said Lindsey is an angel for leaving before the tour started. Besides, you brought up the Stevie issue. The issue was why was Christine not blasted for leaving FM but Lindsey was?

The way I see it Stevie's commitment to FM in 1986-87 was begrudging at best. And her contributions to what could have been a perfect album are proof of it.
I am not balsting LB for TITN nor am I praising La Nicks for her contributions. I am not saying that. ALL I am saying is Stevie made the effort to be there despite her personal condition and her other business commitments. I get that these two things did not give her alot of time. But, my point is she did not have to go to FM. She did it out of loyalty to them. Why else would she be there? Again, at that time, she was one of the most popular women in rock and roll. Yet, when FM called, she juggled and juggled and made time for them. I think she deserves credit for that and do not get why you do not give it to her?

dissention 05-05-2004 01:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by strandinthewind
Dissention, you point about TOTOTM is not relevant. In 1986 when TITN was recorded Stevie was extememly popular. That is the facts FM was dealing with - not her popularity in 1989 :shrug:

For the record, I never said "Lindsey's quitting was an awful thing to do because 'Stevie was in such a bad place.'" I said LB's quitting was awful because of the timing.
Yeah, and the album was released a year later in '87, not '86. Where's the relevance? :laugh:

She was popular, but she wasn't at the height of her popularity, it had already peaked. The RAL sales were a disappointment, don't you remember? It was all downhill from there. OSOTM, that tour, a greatest hits package, SA, that tour...

And "LB's quitting because of the timing" is what you said in relation to Stevie's personal problems. I can quote you, ya know. :laugh:

strandinthewind 05-05-2004 01:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dissention
What aren't you getting?

Stevie was part of the problem for Lindsey. The drama was at its height and he didn't feel like he could go through months of months of the emotional rollercoaster of FM at that time in his life. So, he left. Sorry, Stevie is no more admirable for staying. Maybe if she had left, too, she wouldn't be as bitter as she was later on.
I do not think Stevie was bitter later at LB. I think she was bitter at Mick over SS. But, in any event, my point is they were all in turmoil and it was not all Stevie's fault, which I am getting is what you all are saying from all of this. I mean it takes two to Tango (no pun intended) :laugh:

dissention 05-05-2004 01:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by strandinthewind
ALL I am saying is Stevie made the effort to be there despite her personal condition and her other business commitments.
Huh. It doesn't reflect that on the album. :laugh:

CarneVaca 05-05-2004 01:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by strandinthewind
Dissention, you point about TOTOTM is not relevant. In 1986 when TITN was recorded Stevie was extememly popular. That is the facts FM was dealing with - not her popularity in 1989 :shrug:
Perhaps my memory is failing me here, but in 1986, as I recall, Stevie's popularity had already started its long decline. I recall that Talk to Me got some decent airply and I Can't Wait got less. Imperial Hotel then got even less.

So I'm not sure we can say she was this huuuuuge popular figure at that point. I believe she had already peaked. That was with Stand Back, which came shortly after Gypsy. Really, outside of Rumours, I see Stevie's apex of popularity as that 1981-to-1983 period. With Rock a Little, she started to decline. And I bet it was because her voice had changed in a major way, not to mention that the music had become too glossy.

dissention 05-05-2004 01:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by strandinthewind
I do not think Stevie was bitter later at LB. I think she was bitter at Mick over SS. But, in any event, my point is they were all in turmoil and it was not all Stevie's fault, which I am getting is what you all are saying from all of this. I mean it takes two to Tango (no pun intended) :laugh:
Whoa. She was a VERY bitter person about everything from '87-'94. We are talking about the same Stevie, right? And you must not have seen the conference they gave to announce Lindsey's departure. She was quite bitter, my friend.

strandinthewind 05-05-2004 01:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dissention
Yeah, and the album was released a year later in '87, not '86. Where's the relevance? :laugh:

She was popular, but she wasn't at the height of her popularity, it had already peaked. The RAL sales were a disappointment, don't you remember? It was all downhill from there. OSOTM, that tour, a greatest hits package, SA, that tour...

And "LB's quitting because of the timing" is what you said in relation to Stevie's personal problems. I can quote you, ya know. :laugh:
Yes RAL sold only a million and had three top 40 singles and a successful tour :rolleyes: Come on, you know she was still very popular at this time :cool: Was it the beginning of the end. Yes. But, who knew that in 1986 :shrug: FM and the label certainly did not - otherwise why wait for her?

Again, if LB agreed to tour he should have in my book. But, the debate rages on . . .

CarneVaca 05-05-2004 01:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by strandinthewind
I think she deserves credit for that and do not get why you do not give it to her?
Because her contributions were ****ty. Plain and simple. :nod: Her commitment was minimal and the quality of the work was the worst we had seen from her until then.

dissention 05-05-2004 01:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarneVaca
Perhaps my memory is failing me here, but in 1986, as I recall, Stevie's popularity had already started its long decline. I recall that Talk to Me got some decent airply and I Can't Wait got less. Imperial Hotel then got even less.

So I'm not sure we can say she was this huuuuuge popular figure at that point. I believe she had already peaked. That was with Stand Back, which came shortly after Gypsy. Really, outside of Rumours, I see Stevie's apex of popularity as that 1981-to-1983 period. With Rock a Little, she started to decline. And I bet it was because her voice had changed in a major way, not to mention that the music had become too glossy.
Each solo album of hers sold less and less.

And I agree with everything else. I think her popularity declined because with each new project, the image she cultivated got more and more over-the-top to the point of absurdity. Then the music started to suffer. A deadly combination for Stevie. :laugh:

strandinthewind 05-05-2004 01:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarneVaca
Because her contributions were ****ty. Plain and simple. :nod: Her commitment was minimal and the quality of the work was the worst we had seen from her until then.

But, she made the effort to be there. These are two sep. things. She was stretched too thin. LB was pissed and produced her crap into bigger crap. Call it want you want. But, she made the effort and I say kudos to her for it.

CarneVaca 05-05-2004 01:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by strandinthewind
But, in any event, my point is they were all in turmoil and it was not all Stevie's fault, which I am getting is what you all are saying from all of this. :laugh:
No, no, no, my friend. No one is saying that. Some of us are arguing that Lindsey wasn't a horrible person for leaving before the tour. That is the crux of my argument. I insist that he gave FM a masterpiece for which he busted his rump. Meanwhile, Stevie did nearly nothing for the project and then complained about it.

Seriously, I don't see how you can't get that point. I know you do. You just hate to back down. :) I know somebody else like that. ;)

dissention 05-05-2004 01:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by strandinthewind
Yes RAL sold only a million and had three top 40 singles and a successful tour :rolleyes: Come on, you know she was still very popular at this time :cool: Was it the beginning of the end. Yes. But, who knew that in 1986 :shrug: FM and the label certainly did not - otherwise why wait for her?

Again, if LB agreed to tour he should have in my book. But, the debate rages on . . .
They knew it was the end, don't gimme that BS. They knew when TWH sold poorly compared with BD. Then, they saw the writing on the wall when RAL didn't even break the top ten. Why wait for her? Because FM was a band.

And sold-out concerts don't equal extreme popularity, Jason.

strandinthewind 05-05-2004 01:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarneVaca
No, no, no, my friend. No one is saying that. Some of us are arguing that Lindsey wasn't a horrible person for leaving before the tour. That is the crux of my argument. I insist that he gave FM a masterpiece for which he busted his rump. Meanwhile, Stevie did nearly nothing for the project and then complained about it.

Seriously, I don't see how you can't get that point. I know you do. You just hate to back down. :) I know somebody else like that. ;)
Alrighty then, if that is not what is being said, point taken and, of course, touche' I tstill, think, however, LB was wrong for leaving and on that I will never back down :cool: :angel:

dissention 05-05-2004 01:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by strandinthewind
But, she made the effort to be there. These are two sep. things. She was stretched too thin. LB was pissed and produced her crap into bigger crap. Call it want you want. But, she made the effort and I say kudos to her for it.
Oh, now it's Lindsey's fault that her contributions were ****ty?

You're losing the argument, pal.

If anything, her contributions showed a lack of effort, but you'll never accept that.

CarneVaca 05-05-2004 01:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by strandinthewind
But, who knew that in 1986 :shrug: FM and the label certainly did not - otherwise why wait for her?
I did. ;) I'll never forget my disappointment after the first listen to Rock a Little.


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