Goodbye Baby...

[GardenStateGirlie]

Okay, when was the song written? Any guesses as to whom this song is about? If it were indeed about her terminating a pregnancy, who would have been the father? Lindsey? If so, then this kind of sheds a new light on their whole relationship. If it were indeed about terminating a pregnancy, why in the hell would she want to end each show on the tour doing this song if it was difficult for her to do at the Sony preview? Perhaps it’s cathartic for her but gosh, I dunno. Initially, I thought her saying, “goodbye baby” was her way of saying goodbye to her lover but then I thought it had a bit of a double meaning. Goodbye lover…goodbye child? She pushed him away? Anyone have anymore insight? I love the song I just find it really depressing to listen to.

[Mad4stevie]

This song was written in 1976-77. It has been indicated that it could have ended up on the Rumours album.

My take on the song is that it is about Stevie's abortion with Don Henley's baby, as Don explained in the GQ interview. I don't think that she was ever pregnant with Lindsey's baby.

I think that she changed the words from the original demo to morph the song into a goodbye to a lover, instead of the blatant meaning of the original demo. If you have ever heard the original demo "The Tower", it seems much more geared to the "abortion story".

I think this song can be about alot of things - the loss of a lover, the loss of one's innocence, the loss of a baby - but I think the original inspiration was Stevie's decision to end her pregnancy, which seems even more tragic now that she never had any children.

[gypsysara]

Excerpt of the GQ article:

The Second Life of Don Henley
Gentleman's Quarterly Magazine
August, 1991

By Christopher Connelly

"Henley’s prodigious romantic escapades would include an affair with Stevie Nicks, who “I believe to the best of my knowledge became pregnant by me. And she named the [unborn] kid Sara, and she had an abortion”-and then wrote the song of the same name “to the spirit of the aborted baby. I was building my house at the time, and there’s a line in the song that says ‘And when you build your house, call me.’"

[sulamith]

Not to start a fight, but...........

:: Doing my best Chandler imitation ::

Could Don BE more of an ass?

"to the best of my knowledge" Sheesh!

I have read this before, and it steams me everytime!

-Sharon

[gypsysara]

Maybe he was just meaning they never spoke of it directly together? (when the article was written, that is, maybe they have since then). Maybe he heard about it through friends? I dont know myself. Didnt mean to offend!

[sulamith]

Oh no, don't worry, I wasn't trying to act offended. I was just saying that by all accounts, when Stevie told Don she was pregnant in 1976, he pretty much blew her off. I read in an Eagles bio that Don was notrious for his "love 'em and Lear(jet) 'em" lifestyle. The writer described how Don would fly women in, them fly them back out, then went on to say that he got Stevie Nicks pregnant and she had an abortion. It seems Don was most adamant about not wanting to be a father at that time.

Also, people forget that if you really look at the time-line there, it is appparent that S&L didn't just break up in any kind of clean, orderly way. Stevie got pregnant in 76, but she also describes how Lindsey would come up to her condo in Saulsilito during the recording of Rumours. She said that "We were still together enough that he would still come up there and sleep sometimes".

Well, that was in 76. Rumours was released in early 77.

It was in this condo that they had that big fight that she says took place at the end of the making of Rumours. She told him to take the car and all the stuff because she was flying back.

There's a song written by Don during that time called Victim of Love that was on the Hotel California Album that I am convinced is about himself, Stevie and Lindsey.
Here's some lines from it:

What kind of love have you got?
You should be home but you're not
And a room full of noise
And dangerous boys
Still makes you thirsty and hot

This is about Stevie first hanging out with the Eagles when she and Lindsey weren't broken up yet, at least not totally. She has said she was captivated by them.

I heard about you and that man
But there's just one thing I don't understand
You say he's a liar
And he put out your fire
How come you still got his gun in your hand?

Hmmmm.... Is Don asking her why she is still sleeping with Lindsey? Maybe this is why he shrugged off the pregnancy. Maybe there was a chance he wasn't the father?

Let's say Stevie is sure he is. Just the fact that she wasn't totally away from Lindsey yet does open it up to suspicion.

Another line form VOL that I love is

You're walking a wire of pain and desire
Looking for love in between

This song has Stevie written all over it, and knowing Stevie she probably talked incessantly about LB the whole time she was with Don, so Don probably knew alot about their relationship and knew Stevie was playing both ends against the middle.

There's a chance that baby could have just as easliy been Lindsey's.

Maybe Stevie know something we don't. There's alot more to this story than meets the eye, I'm sure!

Just a theory!

-Sharon

[gypsysara]

Thanks for your insight and lyric interpretation. I agree, I think Don was quite the "ladies lush" back then. If the baby was Don's and given his reaction - Im dissapointed in Don, even though by-gones are by-gones between the two of them. I was in Stevie's position before, and Im now a single mom - I dont think its right for guys to assume they arent responsible (not that all men are like that).

Sulamith ~ do you think Smile At You was about Don and her? I think it was, along with EFO. But SAY, "I took the greatest fall" - well she did. Things are all "kiss and make up" now, but I read in interviews she gathered material from her journals from the 70's for songs on SYW.... hence Im thinking she went back in time...

I also agree the split between S/L wasnt the "big bang" back in Sausalito, that they'd split before then and were just continuing on again / off again when the "eruption" and final crack between them started i.e. keys stuff vs. plane. "packin up, shackin up's all you wanna do"

[jeffles]

how many men was this woman with at the same time?

she also dates Walter Egan around then too.

[gypsysara]

She wasnt with Walter for that long. Who knows how intimate they even got?? Obviously her and Lindsey lasted a long time and she was in<>out with Don as well for at least a few years? Anyone else shed light on it??

[sulamith]

Walter Egan said he quit dating her because she was always comparing him to Lindsey. He said he realized pretty quick he was nothing but a rebound for her.

Can't you just see her?

"Lindsey says....."
"Oh, Lindsey always did it this way..."
"And Lindsey....."
"When Lindsey and I used to......"

I'm sure all the "Lindsey this" and "Lindsey that" got old real quick. She still does it to this day.

I think there is a reason nobody ever seems to measure up, or is never quite good enough, and it is sad she didn't or hasn't realized it herself yet, or at least not until after it's pretty much too late.

BUT, the story isn't over yet, kids. Stay tuned!

Oh, and EFO and Smile at You are totally about Lindsey.

Why would she put it on a record if she wants to keep it secret, and then call it "Everybody Finds Out"?

Well, call it hiding in plain sight. People are sure it can't be about that, so I bet it is! hee hee!

Why isn't she talking about EFO and Thrown Down at all?

-Sharon

[WelshWitchPMD]

Originally posted by jeffles
how many men was this woman with at the same time?

she also dates Walter Egan around then too.

I remember her in an interview saying that she dated the keyboard player from Peter Frampton's band. I think that this might be around that same time period. She also dated J. D. Souther who co-wrote some Eagles songs.

[gypsysara]

I dont think S/L story will EVER be over. But I dont think it will be reignited in this lifetime, unless something catastrophic were to happen to Mrs. B, and even then ~ providing LB could get over that in itself.

I was re-reading SAY and EFO lyrics. I see what you mean with Smile at You being for Lindsey, even though I equated "greatest fall" with the Don / Baby stuff previously. But I think your right. Publically she did take the greatest fall. Lindsey didnt write her Silver Springs, he wrote her Go Your Own Way. The whole "you love someone else, I shouldnt be here" almost like she's talking herself out of pursuing him. I can picture her in a house by the sea near a door... "go on save yourself... leave the key here".

EFO - Im not so sure on this one still. The Lindsey connection I dont get because their relationship was so public. Seems she tried to hide the magnatude of Don from LB & the band. OR maybe Mick?? Im thinking the hard-core drugs of the 70's "We see no change in sight, watching her decline. She gets on a midnight plane, she's done it a thousand times" IMO, her and LB started out in the light versus "when love starts out in the darkness". I mean she's known Lindsey forever... cant see that as having started out in the nighttime, but I may be wrong.

Thanks for the conversation all! :wavey: Interesting thread...

[sulamith]

Well I think in the case of EFO it did start out in the darkness. Lindsey was going to be a father, and he wasn't sure what he was going to do, so they kept things really low-key.

I think the references to the darkness by Stevie means it didn't start under the best circumstances, so it can't be out in the open.

Granted that's only speculation, but why was Lindsey with Stevie so much during 98?

It's just something to think about.

The soap opera continues, and I guess if you are going to live a soap opera, you might as well make it a good one!

You go, Stevie!
-Sharon

[tamaraluvsFM]

Ok in regards to the S/L soap opera, I have to add my two cents in. I SWEAR in the song, which absolutely tears my heart out, Say Goodbye, in my headphones I hear him saying "I can never say goodbye to you!
Its at 3:07 and the lyrics in the book of course say, "and now I say goodbye to you"...... but I KNOW what I hear. I listened to it over and over and you can really hear it good with headphones on.
So tell me..please...does anyone else hear this?
In my lovely fantasy world, I think he adds this in last minute on the song. We all know what it means ;)

What do you think???

Tamara :wavey:

[jeffles]

I didn't know about JD Souther and the keyboardist from Frampton's band. I do know FM opened for Frampton at one time. Then with Mick...
She later moved on to her producer, Jimmy Iovine.

[ERigby818]

Here's what I think.....
Goodbye Baby/The Tower is about the abortion but it's morphed into the story of Rhiannon, which involves her being taken to a Tower and having a child taken from her. It's one of the Rhiannon songs that was written about 1976 (can someone who knows more about this elaborate?). She put herself in Rhiannon's position and brilliantly told both stories at the same time, and to the unknowing ear, it's about a lover. Now, the only abortion she has ever admitted to is the Don Henley thing. I think she seemed pretty confident it was his, and she would know. This would fit the timeline since they dated in 1976.

I also think Smile At You is about Don Henley. He didn't like women who were stronger. He liked wimpy groupie types. This pissed Stevie off. The original lyrics to the song are filled with regret (my first mistake was to Smile at You). She has gotten angrier than hell at Lindsey, but I don't think she ever for a second felt regret about being involved with him. She may not have had the career if it weren't for him. While I am not certain the song is about Don, I am certain it is NOT about Lindsey.

Sara is about the Don issue and Mick..The "And he was just like a great dark wing..." verse is about Mick. I think she turned to Mick after that whole difficult time (during the Rumours tour) and he comforted her in that stormy time in her life. But if you listen to the Cleaning Lady version, where you hear the last verse clearly-- "There's a heartbeat and it never really died..." that could be about the abortion, even though she probably wasn't pregnant long enough to notice a heartbeat.

As for EFO I'm beginning to think it may be about Lindsey ;) but I don't have any theories. But I have reason to doubt it was about Don. I don't think she was trying to hide her affair with Don from anyone except Lindsey, because she said she wanted to not piss him off. But I don't think the Don affair was that sneaky...and she certainly did not have him "most of the time." I think EFO is either about Lindsey or someone else, probably someone married, and definitely not Mick.

All of this is JMO.
-Sonia

[GardenStateGirlie]

Originally posted by tamaraluvsFM
Ok in regards to the S/L soap opera, I have to add my two cents in. I SWEAR in the song, which absolutely tears my heart out, Say Goodbye, in my headphones I hear him saying "I can never say goodbye to you!
Its at 3:07 and the lyrics in the book of course say, "and now I say goodbye to you"...... but I KNOW what I hear. I listened to it over and over and you can really hear it good with headphones on.
So tell me..please...does anyone else hear this?
In my lovely fantasy world, I think he adds this in last minute on the song. We all know what it means ;)

What do you think???

Tamara :wavey:

I think we spoke about this before in another thread on the Rumours forum. You're not crazy because that would make me crazy too. He sniffles and then says "I could never say goodbye to you..."

As far as Goodbye Baby goes, I'm with Sonia on this one. I think she morphed her own story into the story of Rhiannon. As far as who the father was, who knows? If she's convinced it's Don's, then she must have reason to believe that. However, I think, as a few of us do, that she was still on again/off again with Lindsey at that time.

EFO---no doubt in my mind it's about Lindsey. This was a song written more recently, correct? To me, it's about 97'....The Dance tour...as is Destiny Rules. She's with him again, but they can't be together...<b><i>Destiny</i></b> won't allow it. How many weeks did The Dance tour last???? I have a theory that "foreign country" either means their European talk show performances OR that the tour was like it's own "foreign country." They hadn't visited that place in a very long time....it was foreign to all of them.

With EFO, I think perhaps they had an affair together (did anyone else wonder why Lindsey kept popping up in various venues on Stevie's tour in 98'???? Not long before his now wife had Will???). I think THAT is the reason why it's still so painful for Stevie to hear Lindsey sing songs like <i><b>Say Goodbye</i></b> to her. Maybe she thought there was a chance for them but then that damn thing called Destiny got in the way again.

Just a thought!

[sulamith]

Hey Marissa, DR was written in Phoenix in late 2001, early 2002, as part of the "Phoenix four".

You know the songs Stevie talked about writing when she listened to what the guys had done with her older material, and she said she wanted 30 days to write someting more timely and recent?

That makes DR even more profound for now, because it is more about how things are between them now, following the rules!

As far as Don being the father, I just beought it up because Don revealed Stevie had an abortion, and Stevie said he sent her flowers and "a million apologies", but she never once said it was Don's baby. She said she had an abortion, and he said he thought he was the father. Now granted he probably is, I'm just saying that we don't know all the facts.

What's Stevie gonna do following Dan saying "Stevie Nicks had an abortion in 1976 and I think it was my baby"?
If there was a possibility it might have been Lindsey's or she wasn't sure, she sure isn't going to say anymore than has already been revealed. If it was left up to her we wouldn't even know what we do.

I just think there might be alot more to the story we will never know, and really shouldn't know.

But, being typical rabid fans, we love to talk about it, don't we?

-Sharon

[Wldhrt315]

Tamara, you are NOT wrong or going crazy. That is for sure what he says at that time mark. I believe it 110%

[gypsysara]

Marissa ~ GardenState ~ ERigby ~ thanks for your input. "Rabid fans" ~ LOL maybe so to some degree. Ive enjoyed reading all your interpretations.

I agree, no matter who the baby's father was or was not, we wont know the whole story (unless Stevie comes out and says something). And regardless of who the father was, she must have been heartbroken regardless. She likely still is. Something like that stays with you forever in some regards.

There were 3 versions of Rhiannon. Let me get the words for you all in the following posts.

[gypsysara]

Stay Away

The birds of Rhiannon sing away the pain...
Take away the darkness...
And sing you golden rainbows...
Just this minute the three birds are flying
In perfect formation...
The emerald, the gold and the snow white...
Because they have lived forever...

Down the forest pathway came the birds...
Singing their songs again...
He who wrote the sunshine...
And the skies full of gold...
The music filled the air and everything was fine...
Whatever happens to each one of us...
Will a wish be an answer...
You are and everything is fine...

If you listen carefully...
You just might hear the song of Rhiannon...
The birds are singing for us...
I can just hear them now...

========

Maker of Birds
The Three Birds of Rhiannon

A bird that is not mine...
Three birds that belong to her...
One emerald-green... one snow white...
One golden, flashing like a sunbeam through the night.
When at first he saw her...
It seemed she had no name

She sat alone, and it seemed to him...
That the light and her face were the same...
Her hair shone...
Streams of blond and gold

Her gown was no more than the water could cover...
This time would not come again
And the white mares dance...
And the Lady asked...

Take my wisdom with you... I shall ride...
And the birds are still singing...
And the song is now sweeping...
Like a silver... A silver shimmering flood..."


========

Rhiannon

Rhiannon rings like a bell thru the night...
And wouldn't you love to love her...
She rules her life like a bird in flight...
Who will be her lover...

All your life you've never seen...
A woman taken by the wind
Would you stay if she promised you heaven...
Will you ever win...

She is like a cat in the dark
And then she is the darkness
She rules her life like a fine skylark...
And when the sky is starless...

Once in a million years a lady like her rises...
Take me like the wind, child...
Take me with the sky...
Dreams unwind...
Love's a state of mind...

Will you take me with you to the sky...
Rhiannon...."