Quotes from The Record, 1982...OUCH. LOL.

[kristin]

I was reading this article today and some quotes from Lindsey about Stevie that I had never read before totally blew me away!! This was right before the Mirage tour started.

"Because she is not a musician, she doesn't share in that thing with us. She can feel totally out of her depth, which she is on some levels and you can understand why she doesn't want to come down to the studio or be involved in certain things."

"She's always been a little bit hard for me to take seriously, because I really appreciate a beat, having been weaned on Elvis and LIttle Richard and Chuck Berry."

Buckingham says that in all the time that he's known her, "Stevie has never been very happy, and I don't think the success of her album has made her any happier. In fact it may have made her less happy."

"She's flexing some kind of emotional muscle that she feels she can flex now that she's in a more powerful position...there's no denying that her success is making her feel that she can pull things that she wouldn't have felt comfortable pulling before. And most of them aren't particularly worthwhile, but she's venting something--loneliness, unhappiness, or something."

...I mean these were all in the same article! OUCH. I wonder why he was so bitter during this particular interview?

Kristin

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by kristin
I wonder why he was so bitter during this particular interview?'Bella Donna' - #1 on Billboard's Top LPs chart.
'Law And Order' - #32 on Billboard's Top LPs chart.
That could explain it. ;)

Seriously, and with all due respect to Lindsey, I think there were a lot of hard feelings on his part, because Stevie was able to strike out on her own... away from him... and still have a great deal of success.
He has said that much himself.

Once again, I'm just glad that they're beyond that kind of pettiness now.
Sure, they may still have their tiffs, but now it's just about the music, and not about their broken romance.



Johnny Stew

[kristin]

Yeah....

That makes total sense. Stevie wasn't present at that interview either, so that could have spurred on his courage to say what he wanted. It just struck me as odd though because I have a jaded idea in my mind of where they were at that point in time....I can only think of poor Stevie, devistated by the death of her best friend Robin.....and I think of Lindsey consoling her openly on stage on the Mirage live in concert video, and I cannot figure out why he is taking the attitude that he does in this interview....but I guess the points you made make sense Johnny Stew :) Thanks!

Kristin

[Sorcerer386]

The only thing I really find very harsh is the first quote about her not being a musician and blah blah blah. Okay, so maybe she can't take a song and arrange it into some great, fabulous thing...but who knows, if she wasn't waiting tables and cleaning houses in the 70's and was practicing music as much as Lindsey was, maybe she could have. Then again, maybe not, who knows? I personally feel though that FM kept her out of the way a lot...I mean, she was there for vocals mainly. But yet, I think she sings the LEAST on any given FM album (granted Tango was her own fault, but the rest...). I still don't know why she never shared a song with Christine...Lindsey dueted with Christine (Hold Me for example) and Stevie dueted (IDWTK for example), but there's not much dueting with Stevie and Christine -- mostly just backup with each others' songs. But if you don't normally play an instrument, and then you have egos as huge as everyone's in Fleetwood Mac (including Stevie) who don't want to share their instrumental parts, then there's really nowhere for Stevie to go. She had vocals, so when they were doing instrumentals, what was she supposed to do? Lindsey was obviously in control...God forbid she makes a suggestion.

But the rest really don't bother me. Not many people took her seriously back then, and even Paul Fishkin says that in her Behind the Music. Stevie will tell you that she's not the happiest person in the world and never was (until now maybe). And as for the third, I'm sure she did gain some confidence to go up to a band member and suggest something. I mean, she just had a #1 album. That would boost anyone's ego.

[Janet]

Lindsey was a bitter person, no doubt.

Stevie didn't get really bitter until the mid 90's.

But Lindsey really seemed to feel very left out...

I mean I listen to the song " Her lips were waiting, her eyes looked sad, the dreams of a lifetime, a year gone bad, the dreams of a lifetime, told me wrong, everything is alright, and now its gone, don't blame me, please be strong, I know Im not wrong." I mean thats Lindsey right to Stevie..." dreams of a lifetime"...

He wanted alot from THEM and he didn't get that...instead she flew away...this beautiful lost bird and he lost all control of her.

He was never very nice about her...he wanted it KNOWN he " made" her...he wanted it known because he was getting the shit end of the stick with everything though he knew he had the talent in places Stevie did not.

Even in 1984 he said they were competitive.

He lost ...she got the sales, the grammy nominations

But its all good NOW and thats what matters.

[sulamith]

I just wanted to chime in as well and agree that you have to look at all the old interviews in context of the time. Lindsey also told someone around the time BellaDonna came out that Stevie's shows were no better than some lounge act. Stevie countered in another interview saying that her show was no more "lounge acty" than his, blah, blah, blah.

Janet is right about Stevie not getting really snarky until the early 90's when she hit a real rough patch herself. In the late 70's/early 80's Lindsey felt slighted, like Stevie had busted up their little team, and he had that contant thing nagging at him about what would have happened had they never joined FM (I think he still has that). His comments about her were very bitter during that time.

Stevie, on the other hand, wasn't feeling very slighted herself until the early 90's, after Lindsey "abandoned" her (gasp! How dare he?). Her comments during those years are equally biting.

Just remember, there really is a thin line between love and hate, and that hate is not the opposite of love. Indifference is the opposite of love. I don't see a whole lot of indifference, do you?

[kristin]

Originally posted by sulamith

Just remember, there really is a thin line between love and hate, and that hate is not the opposite of love. Indifference is the opposite of love. I don't see a whole lot of indifference, do you? [/B]


Oh my god Sulamith! That quote is GREAT!! I never thought of it that way and that is such a perfect way of putting it!! Love it...I want to quote you and use you as my new signature.....lol.....

Kristin

[sulamith]

Sure, go right ahead!
I'm glad you were able to see it from a different angle. Their relationship is very complicated, and you can understand it a whole lot better if you approach it that way.
At least that's just what works for me, lmao!!

[kristin]

Oh my god!! lol....I love my new sig!!! :)

Kristin

[sulamith]

HAHAAAAAAA!!!

What a hoot!

Just keep spreadin' the S&L Gospel according to me!
lol!!

[Les]

From a slightly different perspective... I think it's too easy to say everything any one of them ever said that is halfway harsh is attributable to jealousy. Stevie's been harsh through the years too and it's most often regarded as simply her honest feelings at that given point in time. I think that applies to the others too.

I think if you read most of Stevie's interviews from that period of time you'll find that she always said, yes, she really loved them, but she also repeatedly talked about how she felt left out, neglected, etc...

I actually think Lindsey's first quote isn't far off the mark. Stevie is not a musician in the sense that the rest of them are. She herself would talk about sitting on the other side of the glass, watching the four of them work out an instrumental section, and feeling bad because she couldn't participate in that... and feeling left out and forgotten. Were they overly dismissive of her sometimes? No doubt. But there are things she could have done, like learn more about the studio or work on her own playing of an instrument to make the situation better. She didn't.

The rest of the article sounds like Lindsey being asked to respond to specific questions about "why do you think Stevie is spending less and less time with the band and more and more time on her solo stuff?" For him to actually admit that he hadn't always taken her seriously and understand that that affects her is really pretty honest. Stevie's never been shy to say what she doesn't like about Lindsey or his work.

The last quote is also, I think, his honest assessment of where she was at the time. Stevie has also repeatedly complained that she's not as powerful in FM as she'd like to be. When her solo career took off, she felt very powerful and did flex her new muscle by not being around the band very much -- showing them that she didn't *need* them anymore, but she would stay with them anyway.

I can understand why she stayed away more. But I can also understand why it irritated the others for her to stay away so much, but then still talk up her commitment to the band in the press, while leaving them to field all these questions about why she isn't there, and how do you respond to her comments that she doesn't have enough power? and do you neglect her? do you mistreat her songs? and aren't you jealous?

That whole article was taking place as the band were getting Mirage ready to go and after Stevie had, in Ken Calliat's words, been there for maybe 10% of the time the band spent making it.

I think this article is a little raw and brutally honest at a time when the band was going through some major growing pains. Looking through some of the interviews Stevie gave at the same period of time when she talked about the band or Lindsey specifically -- I don't come away with the warm and fuzzies either.

There were a few interviews that Christine gave during that time -- might even have been in this same article?? -- where she seems to go out of her way to defend Lindsey (talk about her enjoyment in working with him) and the band generally. I've always had a hunch that she was doing that a little bit more than normal because of how Stevie's comments and her general absence were being interpreted in the press and putting everyone else in the band a little bit on the defensive.

[chiliD]

Yeah.

You could substitute "John Lennon" & "Paul McCartney" for "Lindsey" and "Stevie" in those interviews and they'd be almost identical comments the mudslinging two ex-Beatles made toward each other the first few years after the Beatles breakup, too.

[sulamith]

Well Les, I pretty much agree with everything you said, imagine that? haha! I think there were times they were both wrong, and we could sit here and give tit for tat over comments they made about each other.
I was just saying that Lindsey seemed to be more overt with his bitterness, and had sort of a "sour grapes" if you will, attitude early on. Stevie, in the early 80's is sort of just going along kind of in her tra la la que sera sera way at that time. She made a comment here and there that was rather unsavory, but not overall as plain mean as Lindsey "sounded" at the time. I'm sure reporters were looking for him to make remarks and probably even set him up for it.
Then, Stevie didn't get really nasty until she felt he had left her burning on the side of the road by "breaking up" with her in 87. I'm sure you know the famous comment she made to that effect. Personally, I don't blame Linds for leaving at that time. He had come to end of a very long rope with her and he had had enough. It truly was a "survival move" for him. Stevie totally couldn't believe he had the nerve to walk away. After he left, he became more or less que sera sera about her, and it just galled the shit out of her. That's when she gave that Molly Meldrim interview where she was so mad, remember that one? lol!! She "sounded" like Tusk/Mirage era Lindsey! The shoe was on the other foot, now, babe!

I just see him being more raw early on, and her being more nasty later, with alot of God-knows-what sprinkled in between. During one of the interviews for the Dance, Lindsey said that he couldn't help but wonder they had given up because of all of their fighting to prove things to each other. He said, "You could cry over it if you let yourself."

No indifference, that's for sure!

[sulamith]

Oh, and I did mean to address your observation about Stevie never honing her skills more as a musician.......
Yes, I wish she had done that, too, but crap, can you imagine having to work out your imperfections with the guitar under the watchful eye of Lindsey? I would be too intimidated to try! Stevie said part of their problem as a couple was perfectionism. Lindsey demanded no less from himself or anyone else. Maybe that was part of it. I do remember Stevie saying there wasn't any reason for her to learn to do those things because the current musicians did it so well. I guess she felt she could play piano and guitar well enough to accomplish what she was best at, which was writing lyrics.

[Barbara]

Originally posted by sulamith
I do remember Stevie saying there wasn't any reason for her to learn to do those things because the current musicians did it so well. I guess she felt she could play piano and guitar well enough to accomplish what she was best at, which was writing lyrics.

I read an interview in which Stevie said she never wanted to improve her instrumental skills because it was too much work and wouldn't be fun.

Barbara

[Les]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by sulamith
Well Les, I pretty much agree with everything you said, imagine that? haha!

Gasp! LOL! ;)

He could have phrased some things differently to soften them, or avoided some of these topics totally, but I don't think Lindsey was being mean to Stevie for the sake of it or because his album didn't sell as well. If you listen to Lindsey's interviews about Law and Order, he never expected his album to sail to the top of the charts. He knew that Trouble was the only really commercial sounding thing on it. He also said that he knew that audiences didn't know him very well and so he wouldn't expect the same reaction to his album as Stevie's.

* * *
Interesting little note - when Christine was doing some press for Mirage, she did one of those call-in radio shows. Don't remember which one off the top of my head. Maybe Rockline?? Someone calls up and asks if there is a big rift between Stevie and the rest of the band. Christine says that, sure they all have their problems and always will, but that some aspects have been greatly exaggerated. She then actually singles out this particular Record Magazine interview and says that she thought it was very purposely edited and shaped to leave the impression that there was a war going on, but that it wasn't really representative of the whole, true picture.

[sulamith]

Oh yes, in regard to the magazine articles at the time, I am very sure quotes were taken out of context, and I'm sure they were all baited heavily by journalists just looking to sensationalize an already juicy story. They had to make it look like one of them was being a total ass.

One of the things that is a real shame is that Lindsey and Stevie had such a hard time communicating during those years. Because they weren't having any real conversations with each other, I'm sure many of these articles only aggravated each's impression of the other. It is amazing they have any regard for each other today, based solely on what is in the press.

Now, here is where I know everyone doesn't agree with me, and that is perfectly fine........but there's alot that keeps them "chained together". Being an artist myself, I can begin to understand that kind of creative bond with another person. It's not something you can throw away very easily, and it's not something you want to live without. It's something that you keep coming back around with, or "cycling" through, to quote Mr. Buckingham.

You can compare them to other similar bonds, like the Beatles, but the thing that has made me such a fan is that whole male/female dynamic they have going, that whole physical attraction. It definitley adds a layer of interest that isn't there in alot of other working relationships.

[David]

Originally posted by Les
Interesting little note - when Christine was doing some press for Mirage, she did one of those call-in radio shows. Don't remember which one off the top of my head. Maybe Rockline?? Someone calls up and asks if there is a big rift between Stevie and the rest of the band. Christine says that, sure they all have their problems and always will, but that some aspects have been greatly exaggerated. She then actually singles out this particular Record Magazine interview and says that she thought it was very purposely edited and shaped to leave the impression that there was a war going on, but that it wasn't really representative of the whole, true picture. [/B]
David Gans wrote that Record article, didn't he? Gans is an absolutely splendid writer on Fleetwood Mac; he has always been one of my favorites. He used to review the band's San Francisco Bay Area shows -- always very favorably -- & often voted for the band's studio albums as year-end bests in BAM (Bay Area Music) magazine. I wrote to alt.music.fleetwood-mac a few years ago about how I would want Gans to write a Mac bio, instead of nonentities like Leah Furman. I'd love someone like Gans or Ken Tucker or the guy who went to the NY Times to cover jazz (who loved FM) to write a really big, serious book on the Mac.

However, the thing with Gans is that he is less in love with Nicks & her songs than with the other members of the band, particularly Buckingham, whom Gans really thought was brilliant. I've always had the opinion that Gans "shaped" this particular article in such a way as to focus disproportionately on the fact that Nicks wasn't hanging around the studio much at Larrabee helping with "Mirage," & that Gans was attempting to wring a little drama out of the atypically very calm "Mirage" sessions.

One note to one of the posts earlier in the thread: Robin, Stevie's friend, didn't actually die until about six months after "Mirage" was released.