Who are the most talented members of Fleetwood Mac?

[golddustwoman77]

List 5 members in order of greatness, who you believe are the

most talented members of Fleetwood Mac ever.

I know it will be hard, because they are all so GREAT!!!!!! It is rare to see so many talented people in one band.


I guess if I had to pick the 5 most talented members in Fleetwood Mac, I would pick:

(1) Lindsey Buckingham (awesome, stringed instrument player, singer/songwriter) :thumbsup:

(2) Stevie Nicks (awesome songwriter, what a voice!, and good (instead of previously typed "fabulous") piano player) :angel:

(3) Christine McVie (Fabulous keyboard/piano player, singer/songwriter) :D

(4) Peter Green (a guitar guru and songwriter) :nod:

(5) Mick Fleetwood and John McVie(tie) (both legends in their areas!) :)

:wavey:

[macfan 57]

1)Lindsey Buckingham
2)Peter Green
3)Christine McVie
4)Mick Fleetwood & John McVie
5)Stevie Nicks

[seteca]

1) Lindsey Buckingham / Peter Green
2) John McVie
3) Christine McVie
4) Danny Kirwan
5) Mick Fleetwood

:wavey: :wavey: :wavey:

[wondergirl9847]

1. LINDSEY BUCKINGHAM (This man can do it all...play guitar, write songs, produce AND sing!! LINDSEY RULES!!)

2. Stevie Nicks (She's an amazing songwriter)/ Christine McVie (Great piano player, great songwriter and that voice is like velveeta!! LOL)

3. Mick/John (The rhythm section is GREATNESS...think The Chain's bassline and Mick's crazy drumming on stage!!)

4. Peter Green (Amazing guitarist!! Love that Green Manalishi riff!!)

5. Bob Welch (Great songwriter!!)

[estranged4life]

this is an interesting question...

1.Peter Green
2.John McVie
3.Lindsey Buckingham
4.Christine McVie
5.Stevie Nicks

[Jessica Leigh]

Originally posted by golddustwoman77
(2) Stevie Nicks (awesome songwriter, what a voice!, and fabulous piano player) :angel:

:wavey:

i'm soooorry.... but did you just say that stevie is a fabulous piano player? i bed to differ... i mean yeah she gets the job done... she writes her songs... but come on now... lets rethink this one

[jmn3]

Originally posted by Jessica Leigh


i'm soooorry.... but did you just say that stevie is a fabulous piano player? i bed to differ... i mean yeah she gets the job done... she writes her songs... but come on now... lets rethink this one

Yeah I don't know about that statement either. If there has always been one thing Stevie has lacked with this band, it is her ability with a musical instrument. OKAY OKAY, she plays a mean tambourine, but anyway...

[golddustwoman77]

Originally posted by Jessica Leigh


i'm soooorry.... but did you just say that stevie is a fabulous piano player? i bed to differ... i mean yeah she gets the job done... she writes her songs... but come on now... lets rethink this one

Okay, I will rethink it. I'm going to stick with what I said and reword it a little. "Fabulous" might have been too strong of a word, so let's go with "good." Just because she isn't playing the piano in Fleetwood Mac doesn't mean that she can't do it or isn't good at it. My purpose was to point out all of the band members' abilities to show how multi-talented most of them are. :thumbsup:



quote from jmn3: Yeah I don't know about that statement either. If there has always been one thing Stevie has lacked with this band, it is her ability with a musical instrument. OKAY OKAY, she plays a mean tambourine, but anyway...


In response to this post, the only reason that she doesn't play an instrument in Fleetwood Mac, such as the piano, is because they don't need her for that. All of the people in the band have their place. Christine was already doing keyboard and piano when Stevie entered the band. They needed a front person, and Stevie fills those shoes quite nicely. :nod:

:wavey:

[blinker12]

1. Peter Green
2. Lindsey Buckingham
3. Christine McVie
4. Mick Fleetwood
5. Danny Kirwan

I love Stevie; it was tough to leave her off the list. But she really relies on the talent of others to make her songs *music*. And really, I agree with Jessica Leigh, her piano playing is quite, uh, primitive.

[CarneVaca]

Need you ask? Lindsey Buckingham, of course. The man doesn't just play guitar, produce, write and sing. He is a multi-instrumentalist. And though writing tends to be his weakness, he has some occasional flashes of poetic brilliance: "A face as soft as a tear in a clown's eye."

Second would be Peter Green.

Stevie? She wrote about six great songs in the 70s. But she hasn't done anything brilliant since Bella Donna. The idea that she could play keys with the band on stage is just comical. I'm not even sure she can play the piano with both hands. She herself has admitted that she "tic tacs" on the piano. I've followed this band for a long time, and it gets a little tiring to keep seeing the perpetuation of the Myth of Stevie Nicks. She was great early on, but now she is anything but.

[chiliD]

She was great early on, but now she is anything but.

Amen, bruddah! :nod: If it wasn't for her "one trick pony" of her alter-ego stage persona of "The Welsh Gypsy Witch", she'd still be asking "do you want fries with that?"


Although, I'm not one to automatically jump on the Buckingham bandwagon, either. He also had some great ideas long ago, but he's just reformed and recycled them like a 20+ year old glop of silly-putty. I will admit, just from being able to "play the studio" like a musical instrument, he would be put in some special category along with Brian Wilson, Phil Spector, Sir George Martin, Jeff Lynne, etc. But, those other the guys knew how to get the "sound" done in a hurry, Buckingham works as slow as molasses in the Antarctic.

"The most talented member of the band?", you ask?

The unit known as the "rhythm section", Mick Fleetwood & John McVie.

They've been able for 35 years to play almost every genre & sub-genre of non-classical music with equal aplomb. (from the "blues" to "hippie acid rock" to "country" to "reggae" to "punk" to "easy listening pop" to "soul" to "rock" and blend them all together) That, my friends, takes talent.

[SmthngOfADreamr]

I haven't posted anything for like 5 months (mostly due to very limited computer access up until about 2 weeks ago) but I just had to chime in here...

I think it's obnoxious how some people can turn such a positive thread ("who is the most talented") into something hateful and negative ("who sucks the most"). Why not try to keep things in a positive light when that is how they are initially presented?

Anyway, to answer the question:

I think that Stevie is the most talented songwriter/lyricist, and that Lindsey is the most musically talented. This being the case, they sure do make a great team.

PS Hi to everyone.

[chiliD]

something hateful and negative

Equally obnoxious are those who claim heresy upon those who don't fall to our knees and worship "all things Nicks".

[rhiannon1119]

1. Stevie Nicks (as far as songwriting goes.. I don't know anyone else who can write quite like her!)
2. Lindsey Buckingham (the man is a brilliant genius!)
3. Christine McVie (the woman knows her stuff!)
4. Peter Green (not really a big fan of his stuff, but he belongs right up there!)
5. Mick Fleetwood & John McVie (the ultimate rhythm section!)

:) Michelle

[The Tower]

Talent is such a subjective word.... Talented in what form???

Stevie can't play piano for ****, yes- but she has a stage presence that's hard to beat.

Christing is a good piano player (compared to others like Elton John or Benmont Tench), has a gorgeous, unique voice- but is a cold fish on stage barely registering a pulse.

Lindsey is a fantastic guitar player and is able to "play" the studio like most musicians can't- but he lacks warmth and compassion.

Mick and John are a great rhythm section- but are they dynamically talented musicians compared to other drummers/bassists? Maybe so, maybe not.

I think the real talent of Fleetwood Mac is the ability to take all these different kinds of people and form them in a cohesive band sound. There are so many different facets to the band, so many different contributions from many different talent sources.

How many bands out there have one main songwriter, one main voice and the same old tired sound (Creed, Smashing Pumpkins, etc., etc., etc).

So what if Stevie can't play the piano- she's not supposed to. That would be like expecting Christine to get up on stage and pull off a killer guitar solo. One certainly wouldn't expect Mick to start ripping out the vocals on some song??

Their talents are their contributions and what they ARE capable of doing, not what the aren't capable of doing.

[greatdarkwing]

Well said!!!

~Alex

[chiliD]

Ditto! :)

[SmthngOfADreamr]

Originally posted by chiliD


Equally obnoxious are those who claim heresy upon those who don't fall to our knees and worship "all things Nicks".


Having a bad day??? Get up on the wrong side of the bed???Anyway, you're barking up the wrong tree because I claimed absolutely nothing of the kind, I simply commented that there is no need to turn a positive thread into a negative thread. So calm down! I don't care who's a fan of whom, variety is the spice of life and everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I just think there is a time and a place for everything and your comment and its predecessor just caught me off guard when the thread was supposed to concern what we like about the band musically.

[chiliD]

Life is balance, the "yin" & "yang" of all things. Too much of anything isn't good.

[jwd]

First of all I'd like to second everything that The Tower posted in his/her thread. Well said!

Posted by Carnevaca: I've followed this band for a long time, and it gets a little tiring to keep seeing the perpetuation of the Myth of Stevie Nicks. She was great early on, but now she is anything but.

In defense of Stevie Nicks, and why she has to the most defended member of FM sometimes baffles me. The fact that Stevie is still doing what she is doing...writing, recording, touring and successfully too should dispute in part what the above quote said. Maybe she isn't AS successful as she used to be, but who is(McCartney and Jagger to name a few). Stevie's GREATNESS lies in her staying power and the legacy she will leave behind. She should be flattered by all of the musicians, writers, and performers who are inspired by her and emulate her TRYING to capture what she has done in rock and roll.


Joe

[golddustwoman77]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by chiliD


Equally obnoxious are those who claim heresy upon those who don't fall to our knees and worship "all things Nicks".

If it wasn't for her "one trick pony" of her alter-ego stage persona of "The Welsh Gypsy Witch", she'd still be asking "do you want fries with that?"


Although, I'm not one to automatically jump on the Buckingham bandwagon, either. He also had some great ideas long ago, but he's just reformed and recycled them like a 20+ year old glop of silly-putty.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
She was great early on, but now she is anything but.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote: Stevie can't play piano for ****, yes
____________________________________________________

I started this thread to be positive and to celebrate all the great talents of Fleetwood Mac. I had not planned on some of the negativity. I think a true Fleetwood Mac fan would celebrate the members and discuss their positives and not look to comment mostly on their negatives, nor would they look to slam the members of the band. I guess KIND criticism is okay, but slamming them is not cool! :nod: :thumbsup:

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by The Tower
Talent is such a subjective word.... Talented in what form???

I couldn't disagree more. Talent is not subjective. Taste is.

[B]So what if Stevie can't play the piano- she's not supposed to./B][/QUOTE]

True, but someone earlier called her a "fabulous" piano player, which couldn't be less accurate. At one point she could write -- she was a great songwriter -- and that was at about the same time that she could sing. In my humble, most subjective opinion, she can do neither now.

[BBALLGYPSY17]

*Stands clapping at his genius defense and Stevie loving self*

RIGHT ON!!!:nod::laugh:;)

Soooooo it's been awhile...how ya doing?:cool:

LOL:lol:
~alex~ aka "little STEVIE"

[greatdarkwing]

Ok, now I have to post........


Stevie is an EXCELLENT songwriter, Stevie has an EXCELLENT voice...and you know what? She is doing the best she can do, with the voice she has!!! The voice that Stevie once had has been withered away, no doubt, BUT does that mean she is utterly useless????? I ,for one, am quite happy with the Stevie of today....I just think that some people are being quite harsh with her.....

~Alex

[madformac]

Originally posted by CarneVaca


I couldn't disagree more. Talent is not subjective. Taste is.



I totally agree with that.

What constitutes talent anyway?

I was talking to the guitar tech of a very very big British band (no names mentioned). Anyway, he used to be the lead guitarist before the band became big, then they hired him as the guitar tech after they became famous. He actually teaches the lead singer and guitarist of this group how to play his own songs!!!

We hear those songs and say "That Mr. ??? is so talented" Hmm.....

Everybody is super talented at something. To have that talent as your career is very rare indeed. Only about 5% of musicians are truly talented. The rest just work at it.

In my opinion, musically, Buckingham, Green and John McVie are naturally talented, the others just work hard at it. Writing is a different matter.....

:nod: ;) :nod:

[chiliD]

...Stevie has an EXCELLENT voice...and you know what? She is doing the best she can do, with the voice she has!!!

Isn't this a contradiction? :shrug:


It's like saying "Bob Dylan has an EXCELLENT voice". He doesn't. But, he DOES have a unique voice, a voice that fits HIM. Not the case with Stevie. She HAD a "very good" voice, but she mistreated it, and then lost it. Which is a great shame. She's been LEFT with a voice that now is uniquely hers, but at what cost?

[CarneVaca]

I agree with ChiliD and Madformac.

For the record, the idea that as a fan you should only make positive statements about the band is simply misguided. With that kind of logic, for instance a fan who says, "I don't particularly like 'Not That Funny'" should simply not express that view. A fan who says, "Lindsey's guitar was drowned in the mix when I saw the band in concert" shouldn't express that view.

It's simply unrealistic to expect that only positive statements ought to be made. This after all is a discussion board.

As for Ms. Nicks, remember the South Park episode in which she was represented as a goat? 'Nuff said.

[chiliD]

I started this thread to be positive and to celebrate all the great talents of Fleetwood Mac.


Whatever the "intention", once the post is out there, it takes on a life (and death) of it's own. Or , until a moderator deems that it be euthanized.


If Fleetwood Mac and it's members were beyond reproach, then fine; but, there's A LOT of dissatisfaction that is included in being a "SEVERE" Fleetwood Mac fan. :nod:

[BBALLGYPSY17]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
As for Ms. Nicks, remember the South Park episode in which she was represented as a goat? 'Nuff said.

HAHAHA:laugh: I never said her voice was like it used to be....I'm in agreement there;) It won't change my loyalty or fanship though:cool: And I also agree with the idea that as a fan it's not only your right,but in some respects like a RESPONSIBILITY to make your opinions known of the GOOD, the BAD, and the UGLY aspects of the band....you can't always dole out constant praise-what's the point of that...?!:shrug:

LOL:lol:
~alex~*

[Johnny Stew]

If I were interested in singers with "perfect" voices, then I'd be whiling away my time on an Anne Murray message board somewhere.

Fleetwood Mac is a rock and roll band, and Stevie is a rock and roll singer.
Rock isn't about perfection, it's about feeling.

While I, too, disagree with the notion that Stevie is some untouchable diety, I just as strongly disagree with the notion that she is a "one trick pony," whose contributions to the musical landscape, and to Fleetwood Mac in particular, should be written off.

Every artist has some kind of "image," but if you strip away that image and there's nothing left, then they're not going to be around very long.

If it were really all about some glam outfits, and some cool boots, she would have been long forgotten by now (Does anyone still get all hyped over Gary Glitter??).

Stevie has been recording since 1973, and has enjoyed a tremendous amount of popularity in the 29 years since. True, her popularity waned for a period, but that was more of a reflection on changing tastes, than on her abilities... as evidenced by the fact that she's "popular" once again.

I think that's a pretty impressive testament to the fact that this is a talented woman, who has more than just some groovy outfits going for her.



Johnny Stew

[BBALLGYPSY17]

I couldn't have said it better myself!:thumbsup:

LOL:lol:
~alex~*

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
Stevie has been recording since 1973, and has enjoyed a tremendous amount of popularity in the 29 years since. True, her popularity waned for a period, but that was more of a reflection on changing tastes, than on her abilities... as evidenced by the fact that she's "popular" once again.

So the fact that she lost her voice, had to go to rehab a couple of times and went through an extended period of no creativity had nothing to do with it?

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
So the fact that she lost her voice, had to go to rehab a couple of times and went through an extended period of no creativity had nothing to do with it?

Stevie had some troubles in her life... so let's all crucify her for being human.

Which is it... Stevie, The Perfect Goddess... or Stevie, the human who makes mistakes like the rest of us?


Johnny Stew

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew


Stevie had some troubles in her life... so let's all crucify her for being human.

Which is it... Stevie, The Perfect Goddess... or Stevie, the human who makes mistakes like the rest of us?


Johnny Stew

No one is crucifying her for being human. You said that her popularity waned for a while as more of a reflection of "changing tastes" than of "her abilities." The record simply does not reflect that. I would say it was a confluence of all of these factors that made her unpopular, not just changing tastes. And I would say "unpopular" without hesitation, as opposed to saying her popularity "waned." Remember Letterman's anti-Stevie rants? Remember the Rolling Stone review of Street Angel?

[The Tower]

Originally posted by CarneVaca


I couldn't disagree more. Talent is not subjective. Taste is.



Well, not really..... One may think that there is some book out there that states what is talent and what is not talent, but it's not quite that simple.

Many people think that Celine Dion is a talented singer, however, I think she's just screaming.

Webster's definition of the word "talent" is this: a special, superior ability in art, mechanics, learning, etc.

Is Stevie a talented vocalist?? I think so. She can harmonize really well, and I know from experience that singing harmony is no easy task.

The idiots from "American Idol" have one idea of talent and I have another. So, I would consider the idea of talent as subjective.

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
No one is crucifying her for being human. You said that her popularity waned for a while as more of a reflection of "changing tastes" than of "her abilities." The record simply does not reflect that. I would say it was a confluence of all of these factors that made her unpopular, not just changing tastes. And I would say "unpopular" without hesitation, as opposed to saying her popularity "waned." Remember Letterman's anti-Stevie rants? Remember the Rolling Stone review of Street Angel?
Actually I dont remember any "anti-Stevie" rants from Letterman. His beef was always directed at her management. He never said anything derogatory against Stevie personally.
Additionally, those "rants" occured in 1986... so if you're going to refer to 'Street Angel,' which was released in 1994, then the Letterman thing has nothing to do with the discussion, as Stevie appeared on his show at this time.

Rolling Stone, as a rule, has always reviewed Stevie's albums unfavorably, so they're not a very accurate gauge of Stevie's popularity.
As for the reviews of 'Street Angel,' I have a positive one from Entertainment Weekly that I'd be more than happy to post... so obviously not every critic deemed it a failure.

It's true that 'Street Angel' doesn't stand up as one of Stevie's best efforts, but it was by no means an artistic disaster, or a sign that her talent was lost forever.
She was suffering from personal demons, and that album reflects this.
Again, she's human... she's allowed to have an off day, or even a less-than-stellar album.


Johnny Stew

[The Tower]

Originally posted by golddustwoman77
quote:
I started this thread to be positive and to celebrate all the great talents of Fleetwood Mac. I had not planned on some of the negativity. I think a true Fleetwood Mac fan would celebrate the members and discuss their positives and not look to comment mostly on their negatives, nor would they look to slam the members of the band. I guess KIND criticism is okay, but slamming them is not cool! :nod: :thumbsup:

Well, when I stated that Stevie can't play piano for ****, I think that's more of a truth than a negative. I think Stevie knows that. I certainly wasn't slamming her.

I know for a fact that my guitar playing is pretty pathetic, but I still play rhythm guitar in bands every once and awhile.

It's all cool.

[joe68]

I check these posts everyday and rarely write. But...

Oh good grief. Not this Carna-whatsa person again. More needless nasty comments written to provoke. I'm wondering if you got picked on by the "popular" kids in high school and now start arguments as some sort of validation.

I wont take up this space to defend Stevie, I see no reason to on one of her own fan sites, but I will give some advice:

Please Stevie fans, do not get your dander up based on the rants from the person mentioned above. How many of you would visit the sites of other artists just to pick on that person and the fans that visit the site. I find it pathetic and pointless. And if this person is call themselves a FM fan, I havent seen any proof of that either.

Just remember some people get off on being rude and insensitive and the way to get them to stop is not to reply.

[chiliD]

Every artist has some kind of "image," but if you strip away that image and there's nothing left, then they're not going to be around very long.

If it were really all about some glam outfits, and some cool boots, she would have been long forgotten by now...


I wasn't saying it was her "outfits" in particular...I'm saying it was the whole "Rhiannon" mystique that got her noticed...along with her stage presence (her vocal technique, or lack thereof, is what ruined her voice). And, it's the same "Rhiannon" mystique she's kept throughout her career. Same as the band itself beating the "Rumours" horse to death, the "Rhiannon" thing is old & tired. I would think that she would've at least ONCE in her career done a "reinvent" (like Bowie does every few years...the big one being from Ziggy Stardust to the Thin White Duke), just to have the opportunity to re-Rhiannon herself again at some point to much hoopla & hype. But, no, she's kept the same persona through her entire career and, to me (and apparently I'm not alone) it's gotten a bit stale. The thing is, that she's got ENOUGH of a following that DOES buy in to the "Rhiannon" mystique, so consistently, deeply, and avidly, that she doesn't HAVE to have "substance". It's like the blind faithful following the Grateful Dead had/has...is there/was there "substance" behind the Grateful Dead mystique? I don't think so, and I'm a Grateful Dead fan, too. It just boggles my mind how they kept a following for all those decades and the mystique just kept growing (VERY much like Stevie's does). I don't understand how Stevie's mystique keeps drawing people, as well. But, it does.

[Johnny Stew]

Ok, so let's discuss this "image" thing for a minute.

Yes, we can say that the whole "Rhiannon", mystical thing makes for a great image... something for fans, and critics, to latch onto, and do with what they will... but at the same time, Stevie has always maintained that this "image" wasn't terribly calculated. She wore the clothes that she liked... and moved around the stage the way she wanted to move.

Granted she plays it up... which any entertainer worth their weight in gold, should know how to do... but it is very much a part of HER personality, on or off the stage.

She's not a Bowie or a Madonna... she's not someone who needs to change herself from album to album or video to video.
She's got her thing and she sticks with it, and I think that's something her fans tend to really appreciate about her.

Bowie's last few albums have been VERY different from anything he's ever recorded... and the public at large doesn't seem to be the least bit interested.
Am I saying an artist should never change, or try new things?
Absolutely not.
I'm just saying that innovation doesnt inherently equal substance, or appeal.

And yes, I can see how Stevie's "mystique" would get stale to some people... I look at Michael Jackson still doing the exact same dance moves 18 years after 'Thriller,' and I'm bored to tears. But Stevie never did purport to be on the cutting edge of anything. Her performances were never about innovative dance moves, and her music has never been intended to be a harbinger of new fads.

If someone finds that uninteresting, then by all means, look elsewhere for your entertainment... but again, it's unfair to dismiss Stevie as nothing more than a well-used image.



Johnny Stew

[seteca]

Originally posted by joe68
...Oh good grief. Not this Carna-whatsa person again. More needless nasty comments written to provoke. I'm wondering if you got picked on by the "popular" kids in high school and now start arguments as some sort of validation.

I wont take up this space to defend Stevie, I see no reason to on one of her own fan sites, but I will give some advice:

Please Stevie fans, do not get your dander up based on the rants from the person mentioned above. How many of you would visit the sites of other artists just to pick on that person and the fans that visit the site. I find it pathetic and pointless. And if this person is call themselves a FM fan, I havent seen any proof of that either.

Just remember some people get off on being rude and insensitive and the way to get them to stop is not to reply.

Hi joe68,

please explain to me (as I'd really like to know), exactly what part of CarneVaca's posts are "pathetic" or "pointless" or "needless" or "nasty" ?

He's merely contributing to this thread by giving his opinion. As ChiliD stated, threads tend to take up a "life" of their own after the first few posts, and so although the post is meant to be "say who u think is the most talented", one shouldn't be surprised if people give related comments, like what their opinion is about the talents of Stevie Nicks. His is a negative opinion. So what? He was not rude about Stevie, and he was not rude to any Ledgie in any way (as far as I can see). Surely it's healthy to have a mix of views on any *discussion* forum?

He even went out of his way to write "In my humble, most subjective opinion", so that we know he is merely expressing his views, which, he doesn't have to do seeing as his posts have his screenname next to them so obviously they are HIS opinions.

I don't think he has to "prove" to you or anybody else that he is a Fleetwood Mac fan. (Incidentally if you do visit this site as often as you say you do then surely you would have seen the countless positive contributions he has made on the Lindsey Buckingham forum, including being the first to inform us of CVB's "Tusk" album release.)


Personally, I think

"Oh good grief. Not this Carna-whatsa person again"

and

"I'm wondering if you got picked on by the "popular" kids in high school and now start arguments as some sort of validation."

are some of the "nastiest" and "needless" comments i have ever read on The Ledge,

I'm not trying to "start" anything with you, and i'm not trying to defend CarneVaca either (if he feels the need to defend himself i'm sure he is more than capable), I just think what you said was a little OTT and uncalled-for...if CarneVaca posted anything in the past which was "wrong" in any way, I don't think it should be an excuse to attack every negative comment he says from then on.

I've said it (and many others have aswell) before and I'll say it again, this is NOT a Fleetwood Mac PRAISE board, it is a Fleetwood Mac DISCUSSION board.

And that last sentence, is the only part of my post which is not my opinion, but a FACT.

[The Tower]

I keep coming back to Stevie because of her passion and her unique, universal insight.

I don't care a rat's ass about what she wears or any of that witchy crap. It's interesting, but it's not what drew me to Stevie.

(I'll kind of get back to the idea of this thread...)

As an example, I think that, in general, the lyrics to "I Miss You" from TISL are pretty trite and routine. However, when sung by Stevie, the lyrics have soooo much more meaning and deep emotion. That kind of stuff you CAN'T fake and has nothing to do with the shoes and the shawls and all that crap.

I mean, either you feel it or you don't.... I know I do.

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by seteca


Hi joe68,

please explain to me (as I'd really like to know), exactly what part of CarneVaca's posts are "pathetic" or "pointless" or "needless" or "nasty" ?

He's merely contributing to this thread by giving his opinion.


Seteca, thank you. I was about to let the guy have it when I read your post. You said all that needed to be said.

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew

Actually I dont remember any "anti-Stevie" rants from Letterman. His beef was always directed at her management. He never said anything derogatory against Stevie personally.
Additionally, those "rants" occured in 1986... so if you're going to refer to 'Street Angel,' which was released in 1994, then the Letterman thing has nothing to do with the discussion, as Stevie appeared on his show at this time.

Johnny, you are obviously very well informed about the band. But I recall clearly Letterman playing the ending of "Big Love" back then and having a grand ole laugh at Stevie's expense. (Of course, he didn't know that the ooh aahs were actually Lindsey's). And while he did direct a lot of his rants at the management company, he most certainly poked fun at her in a major way. Besides, the management company represents her, so any comments directed at them in their handling of the artist are ultimately directed at the artist.

Secondly, you accurately point out that the examples I picked are eight years apart. Which if anything just goes to show that this lack of popularity was pretty lenghthy. The tide didn't turn until about 1997. Already when Tango came out, there was a lot of antipathy toward Stevie; people were having great fun at mocking her image. And this goes to ChiliD's point. Look at Madonna, she's been loved, she's been hated. She redid her image as often as a normal person might change underwear, and now she is credited as being a great artist, rightly or wrongly.

But beyond the image thing, the fact is that Stevie, as far as I can see, has not written a good song in more than 15 years. And her voice is shot. And, in my humble opinion, the reason she gets so much attention and respect now is because she is a survivor, not because of her music. No one can take that away from her. But can she sing now? No. Can she write a good song now? Possibly, but I haven't heard it.

[bjk3047]

Well hey now, hold on a minute. I agree with a lot of what you said, but "Her voice is shot"? If you can say that, than I can sau Lindsey's voice is "shot". C'mon now, her voice has changed as has Lindsey's as well. If her voice was shot, she wouldn't be performing anymore. I'm sorry, she wouldn't be performing WELL anymore. And if you wanna go that route, at least she HAS been singing. What can be said for Lindsey (if you'd like to make a straight up comparison)? My preference between the two is LB, don't get me wrong, I just think that's a bit of a cheap shot.
-Brian

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
And while he did direct a lot of his rants at the management company, he most certainly poked fun at her in a major way. Letterman poked fun at her, yes... i never argued that fact. But you said he made "anti-Stevie" remarks, and I don't think anything he said was ever "anti-Stevie" at all.
It never appeared to be meant with any malice whatsoever.


Originally posted by CarneVaca
Already when Tango came out, there was a lot of antipathy toward Stevie; people were having great fun at mocking her image. People have been mocking Stevie's "image" pretty much from Day One... again, I don't think that's a good sign that she is/was unpopular.
Anytime you achieve a certain level of stardom, there will always be some backlash in turn.
Heck, in Hollywood you probably haven't "made it" until the first time someone makes a joke about you.


In citing a lack of popularity, you mention the period from 1986 to 1997... but in that time, she had two Top 20 albums (one hitting the Top 10), a Top 40 "best of" compilation, and six Hot 100 charted singles (two of which were Top 20 hits, and a third hitting the Top 5). Not to mention four successful tours.
Even 'Street Angel'... which many consider to be Stevie's Waterloo... charted at #45.
If she had been completely unpopular, it wouldnt have even done that well.

So, I think the facts prove that her popularity may have waned, but she was never completely unpopular.

As for her voice and songwriting abilities... well, that's pretty subjective.
I think "Twisted," "Sweet Girl," "Trouble In Shangri-La," "Bombay Sapphires," "Love Is," and "Thrown Down," rank right up there with some of her best.

And her voice always has had its detractors.... as far back as the very first time Rolling Stone called it "callow."
But that doesn't seem to keep Stevie from perpetually garnering new fans.
Just look at how many YOUNG people became fans (of Stevie in particular) after hearing/seeing "Silver Springs" on MTV.
And true, it was a twenty year old song... but they were still hearing her voice as it is today.

For every argument that Stevie is washed up, unpopular, no longer talented, etc., etc., there are many equally valid (and perhaps even more plausible) arguments that she continues to be a very vital and talented artist.
She's just not everyone's cup of tea... and on that point, we can both agree.



Johnny Stew

[golddustwoman77]

Actually, I always thought that Letterman was a Stevie fan. He has said as much. He has her on his show often, and he always makes a big deal over her. Many times Letterman makes jokes about people he admires and likes, for example--Martha Stewart. Letterman is a comic. That is what he does. Therefore, I don't see how you could gadge popularity or downfall by him. You could look at it this way, if it was someone no one cared about, or wasn't still successful/popular, he wouldn't be talking about them at all! That shows me that she still has what it takes. :nod:




:wavey: :wavey: :wavey:

[tuigirl]

Honestly........you MEN!!! Am I the only woman here who wonders whether you guys have nothing better to do than to argue over Stevie......SO, back to the question..... who's the most talented member of FM ( I assume as this is the Rumours Board, then you mean just the Rumours lineup, so Peter Green and co. don't count!!)

NO.1 Lindsey ( because he writes and sings, plays great, looks georgous.. that probably doesn't count but what the heck!!....produces, and most other stuff)

No. 2 Stevie ( she writes and sings too, plays her tambo after a fashion and dances occasionally)

No. 3 Christine (writes, sings and plays)

No. 4 Mick and John (in no particular order...both play)

Anyway just an ordinary music fans opinion!!:D

[blinker12]

I became a Fleetwood Mac fan in 1990, after the release of "Behind the Mask." It was a strange time to become a fan, because Mac were really at or near their lowest point of popularity in 15 years. Anyway, I was in high school at the time, and I remember feeling like I had to keep my love of Mac and Stevie secret _ that's how unpopular they were. NOBODY respected Mac back then. In the eyes of most young people, they were just a big, galumphing dinosaur of a band that made syrupy pop music. Stevie, in particular, was considered ridiculous. I remember reviews at the time referring to her as a Baby Jane-like character: aging, fattening up but still clinging to the clothes and hair she wore in her youth.

So, Johnny Stew, I think it IS fair to say that Mac and Stevie were regarded as has-beens for a fairly long period _ say, 1988 to 1995. Fans (especially young fans) felt the need to remain closeted. Courtney Love, Billy Corgan and Sheryl Crow hadn't come around yet to name-check Lindsey and Stevie.

Now, is it fair to say Stevie and Mac lost their talent during the 1988-1995 period? No, I don't think so. I don't think you ever really lose talent; I think you're born with it. But was the music they made uninspired? IMO, yes. I mean, "Time"? The new tracks on "Timespace"? Most of "Street Angel"? Pretty disappointing stuff. And Stevie's voice was really at its low point during this period, too. Flat and inflexible.

Thankfully, both Mac and Stevie seem to have been rejuvenated by "The Dance" reunion. Carnevaca, you say Stevie hasn't written a good song in 15 years, but I think her writing has shown a lot of improvement recently. Some of the stuff on TISL is overproduced, but there are some very well-crafted new songs on there: "Love Is," "Trouble in Shangri-La," "Bombay Sapphires" and "Love Changes" spring to mind. And her lyrics have become much more concise. I don't think she was capable of writing lyrics as direct as those in "Love Changes" in the early 1990s.
As for her singing: that, too, is on the rebound. Check out the high notes on "Sorcerer" or the soft, tender delivery of "It's Only Love." She's not bellowing everything at the top of her lungs anymore; she's rediscovered subtlety.

I think we should just admit that Mac and Stevie did go through a pretty uninspired period. Should they be forgiven for that? Sure. But now they're back, making some really relevant, tuneful music. They're back in touch with their talent!

P.S. I think this is a really interesting discussion and I'm glad we're having it.

[CarneVaca]

Brian:

"Well hey now, hold on a minute. I agree with a lot of what you said, but 'Her voice is shot?'"

I honestly did not mean that as a cheap shot. I accept that most folks around here still love (or like) her voice. But in my opinion, when you compare it to the voice that recorded Landslide, Dreams and Sara, it is shot.

Johnny Stew:

"And I don't think anything he said was ever 'anti-Stevie' at all."

That may come down to a matter of interpretation. After all, I have posted comments here that I thought were funny only to be villified for being "negative." But that you would interpret Letterman's remarks as anything but negative against her is up there with Clinton questioning the meaning of "is." Letterman may not have meant any malice, but he was pissed. And that came through clearly.

"In that time, she had two Top 20 albums (one hitting the Top 10), a Top 40 'best of' compilation, and six Hot 100 charted singles (two of which were Top 20 hits, and a third hitting the Top 5)..."

There are many albums that hit the Top 20 only to disappear into extinction quickly. This is all relative, Johnny, as you know. What's a quick hit in the Top 20 for someone who was in a band that held the No. 1 spot for how many weeks and sold a gazillion copies of Rumours? Truly, from the mid 80s to about 1997, Stevie Nicks was mostly an object of ridicule, despite the tiny victories she may have had on the charts.

[CarneVaca]

Hey, Blinker, that is the best assessment I've seen on this thread so far. I confess I am not intimate with the Shangri-La stuff. I heard it once or twice and was unimpressed.

[joe68]

So you had your chance to "let me have it" and yet you took the high road. Wow! You might actually have some class after all. Good for you! You should be proud...

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by joe68
So you had your chance to "let me have it" and yet you took the high road. Wow! You might actually have some class after all. Good for you! You should be proud...

There you go trying to bait me again. But you're just not worth the trouble.

[joe68]

Now if you put that much thought into all your posts from now on, my work here is done.

Be nice and take care!

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by joe68
Now if you put that much thought into all your posts from now on, my work here is done.

Be nice and take care!

Don't flatter yourself. All you've done thus far is show that you really have nothing to contribute. While people have disagreed with my comments here, at least I've added to the discussion. And I've kept my end of it civil, as have most other posters. You came in with the intent of baiting and attacking me, and perhaps you're disappointed that I didn't let you have it. Or perhaps you think you're on some kind of mission? That's pathetic.

[Bella Figura]

here's my list:

1) Stevie
2) Lindsey
3) Peter Green
4) Christine
5) Bob Welch

As you can see, I have a preference for the singer/songwriters of the group...everyone defines talent within the realm of their own life experiences...

[joe68]

I visit this site to find out new information, info that the Nicksfix will not print because its not yet "official". I could not care less about rating songs, who's the most talented member, or what year Stevie had the best hair, hence, I do not contribute to those posts.

What I do care about is consistently reading posts by people who
strike me as rude and argumentative. I see no reason for it and sometimes I feel the need to speak up, which usually only causes more discord.

So I apologize Carnevaca for daring to state my opinion. I only hope you are as passionate about things that really matter as you are about expressing your opinions on this site.

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by joe68
I visit this site to find out new information, info that the Nicksfix will not print because its not yet "official". I could not care less about rating songs, who's the most talented member, or what year Stevie had the best hair, hence, I do not contribute to those posts.

What I do care about is consistently reading posts by people who
strike me as rude and argumentative. I see no reason for it and sometimes I feel the need to speak up, which usually only causes more discord.

So I apologize Carnevaca for daring to state my opinion. I only hope you are as passionate about things that really matter as you are about expressing your opinions on this site.

Dude, from what I can see you insist on being argumentative with me. I care not what opinions you decide to express. That's up to you. But you came in here with the express purpose of attacking me. You claim you're apologizing, then you deliver another shot. You know nothing about me. When I said I wasn't going to reply in kind, you continued to insist on addressing me. You're insignificant to me. I simply don't care whether you like my opinions. I don't like some opinions here, and I simply debate those who express them. I attack if I'm attacked. Yet I've chosen to not attack you back. So why don't you just let it drop, dude? Seems to me you're the one needing attention here.

[joe68]

You found me out! I do need the attention! I want so much to be significant in your universe!

But I see you cant stop posting replies either. So now, having the final word, I will let this drop. It just kind of fits into my needy personality.

Have fun, board!

[bjk3047]

Originally posted by tuigirl
Honestly........you MEN!!! Am I the only woman here who wonders whether you guys have nothing better to do than to argue over Stevie......

OH YOU WOMEN!!! Always over-simplifying things. If you took the care to read the posts, you'd find out that we were debating what constitutes talent. In my opinion, that's a much more interesting and thought provoking concept than (no offense intended) yet another top 10 list. Not to criticize anyone in the least, it seems discussion has been sucked out of the proceedings and have become a giant version of the movie "High Fidelity". But whatever, that's only what I think.
-Brian

[chiliD]

Just to paraphrase something I read about Stevie a long time ago:


"All women want to BE her, all men want to be WITH her."

With the exception of "gender preference" which would toss it into "vice versa" mode, :) I think it sums it up.

:nod:

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by bjk3047
It seems discussion has been sucked out of the proceedings and have become a giant version of the movie "High Fidelity". Brian

Hey, great movie by the way.

Brian, I think we should come up with some worthy topics of discussion. Forget the To 10 crap. Let's think up some good topics and drive away the drivel.

[The Tower]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
"Well hey now, hold on a minute. I agree with a lot of what you said, but 'Her voice is shot?'"

I honestly did not mean that as a cheap shot. I accept that most folks around here still love (or like) her voice. But in my opinion, when you compare it to the voice that recorded Landslide, Dreams and Sara, it is shot.

I think her voice has aged, but by all means it's not shot. With very few exceptions Stevie can still hit all the high notes she hit in the 70's and 80's (when she feels like it, obviously).

On record, listen to "Planets of the Universe" or "Fall From Grace"- she's as vibrant as ever.

Live, listen to "Silver Springs" from The Dance OR anyone who saw the Enchanted tour knows she kicked ass on "Sleeping Angel".

[celestenadia]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the question was who ARE the most
talented members of FM?... That is PRESENT tense! And that would have
to be their current line-up, if the new record ever sees the light of day:nod:
At any rate, I feel that the legacy of FM is that ALL their members past
or present have been talented...But I hate to admit it, Mick Fleetwood
is the most talented, and when the word talented was asked, was it
musically,business-wise,VIBE wise??? Because Mick IS the vibe of
Fleetwood Mac...Even at his worst/chemical ridden I think he's
ALWAYS had a vision and a plan... He's been very talented
at never breaking the chain...:wavey:

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by celestenadia
I hate to admit it, Mick Fleetwood is the most talented, and when the word talented was asked, was it musically,business-wise,VIBE wise??? Because Mick IS the vibe of Fleetwood Mac...Even at his worst/chemical ridden I think he's
ALWAYS had a vision and a plan

Mick is a good drummer, but saying he has vision is giving him too much credit. If that were the case, the band lineups that followed Lindsey's departure would have been successful. In fact, there would have been no need for TWO lineups because the first one would have worked. And while he is a good drummer that delivers a nice steady beat, he is hardly the most talented band member. From what I understand he often has to painstakingly practice his parts and there are at least two infamous instances in which he simply could not replicate what he did originally: the cowbell in Oh Well and the drumming in the song Tusk.

Still, I would not take anything away from him as a drummer. I love his work and I think the chemistry between him and John is unequaled. When you throw Lindsey, the true visionary in the band setting, into the mix, the resulting chemistry is red hot. If you really think about it, these three guys should ditch the others and tour as a trio. That would be rocking!

[bjk3047]

Well yes, the post BN lineups weren't as that successful, but the public can be blamed for a lot of that. In my opinion, both the BTM and Time bands were QUITE talented and put on a great live show. However, they weren't praised because they didn't have the "Fleetwood Mac" sound. Well DUH! It's a completely different set of people! I think Mick did a hell of a job recruiting.
-Brian
P.S. If you listen to Tusk and Mirage shows, Mick handles Tusk just fine. What was I missing?

[jmn3]

Originally posted by bjk3047

P.S. If you listen to Tusk and Mirage shows, Mick handles Tusk just fine. What was I missing?

I don't know Brian, I thought the same thing. I've always thought that one thing that remained constant in the band was the rhythm section. And I've never heard a Mick-screwed-up version of Tusk from any tour.

[chiliD]

I'm not a mind-reader, but from all the things I've read over the years, I think what CarneVaca was getting at was that Mick had to actually sit down, listen to what was on tape and really WORK to relearn both the cowbell break on "Oh Well" and the basic beat of "Tusk" before they could even begin to rehearse the songs. Of COURSE, by the time they got to the public stage, Mick had a firm grasp on both tunes again. :)

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by chiliD
I think what CarneVaca was getting at was that Mick had to actually sit down, listen to what was on tape and really WORK to relearn both the cowbell break on "Oh Well" and the basic beat of "Tusk" before they could even begin to rehearse the songs. Of COURSE, by the time they got to the public stage, Mick had a firm grasp on both tunes again. :)

Exactly right. I just got a huge kick out of those stories. Being a bit of a hack on the guitar, I just know how frustrating it is when you play something and then can't replicate it. I record some of my own stuff just for kicks, and talk about getting frustrated when you lay down a lick, screw up the last note and then can't do any of it again no matter how hard you try.

So knowing that even very accomplished musicians go through this struck me as funny. Of course, Mick is as close to flawless on stage as you can be. So I'm sure he works very hard at it.

[Skylark]

All Men want to Be Lindsey...all Women want to be With Lindsey!:blob1:
ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME !!!! HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!

Great Thread! How wonderfull to feel passion for a favorite artist!;) :blob2:

My choices are:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

My choice---most talented---Christine a college trained musician!
My choice--- a very talented lay-musician I admire---Liddy Buck!!!!
My choice--- a cute little twirling Gypsy Singer---Stevie Nicks!!!
My choice--- a grand rythm section---Mick and John fer' sure!!!
My choice---a great old Come-back Band---The Mac over & over!:D

As has been said--- This band is made up of --- CHEMISTRY!!!;)
It is the sum of all its parts !!!{ loosley quoting here!} Luv, Sky:)

[tuigirl]

...I was reading the posts, but just found it funny how All you guys get your knickers in a twist over a woman!!!! how come your'e not debating the talent difference between Mick and John, or say Christine and Stevie???? Each member has their own unique talent, all of which makes up our fav group (and YES, us woman do like things to be simple and uncomplicated...:D )

[Keith]

what a loaded question, but I'll keep my answers simple.

1. Lindsey because of the masterpiece, Tusk!

2. My favorite member - Stevie. I was given the white album for Christmas in 1976 - I only knew of FM due to the fact that they had a slot in the record bin at Wal-Mart. I remember looking at their covers and thinking they probably sounded like Uriah Heep. Money was tight in my family back then, so I couldn't afford to buy it. But my little sister Kelly gave it to me for Christmas, and I stayed up all night, listening to the vinyl record with my headphones, and falling in love with this band. It's wasn't about Stevie's persona or anything, because I actually confused her and Christine in the bathroom photo. It was her voice and those 3 songs - Rhiannon, Crystal, and Landslide.

3. Christine - Her voice is silk and her songs are beautiful. Christine would be the one member that I would love to hang out at a pub with. Drinking beer and shooting the breeze. She seems real.

4. Mick Fleetwood - I loved his book! And he kept the rhythm grooving. My cousin, who is a drummer, always called Mick's drumming as off-beat. Not for sure what he meant, but he said it was a compliment.

5. John McVie - because he's John.

Musically, Peter Green, Bob Welch, and Danny Kirwan maybe be more talented - but it's really the incarnation above that I fell in love with and so I have to give them the kudos. I'm not much into knowing who is better - but loved reading this thread... and wanted to give my thoughts.

p.s. Johnny Stew - love reading your posts! Thanks.

[jwd]

Posted by CarneVaca: If you really think about it, these three guys should ditch the others and tour as a trio.

Then you and a FEW thousand of your closest friends can go see them! :laugh:


Joe

[WhiteWingedOne]

Originally posted by chiliD


Equally obnoxious are those who claim heresy upon those who don't fall to our knees and worship "all things Nicks".

Oh I agree wholeheartedly! Stevie Nicks CANNOT play a piano and whoever wrote that first needs to see some interviews and/or watch her Storytellers to clear up any ideas she CAN. She was never trained and can only bang out chords. Not many of them, either! :lol: Take the oven mitts off before you sit down Stevie! :wavey: And I hate to admit this, but if you watch her real good on that tamburine, she can't stay in beat with that either. ;) Best wishes, <<The White Winged One>>

[bjk3047]

Originally posted by tuigirl
...I was reading the posts, but just found it funny how All you guys get your knickers in a twist over a woman!!!! how come your'e not debating the talent difference between Mick and John, or say Christine and Stevie???? Each member has their own unique talent, all of which makes up our fav group (and YES, us woman do like things to be simple and uncomplicated...:D )
The reason we're not debating about them has nothing to do with their gender (or else we WOULD be talking about Christine). You're making this into a sex issue when it has absolutely nothing to do with it. The simple truth is that "all of us" were arguing about Stevie's talent because it's debatable as to whether she *has* talent anymore. She doesn't play an instrument (and don't give me "the piano", she fools around on the piano) and her voice is not what it used to be. Since none of us felt the need to question the others' talent, we stuck with Stevie.
This reminds me of a situation where there are 4 white guys and one black guy in an office. The black guy slacks off and doesn't do his job so he's fired. Then he turns around and sues for discrimination. Hey buddy, this has nothing to do with discrimination, you weren't doing your job!!
-Brian

[tuigirl]

Last thing I wanted to do was to start a humungous arguement...guess it's my kiwi attitude coming through...seems like there's more to FM than whether Stevie can play an instrument or not, which was what I was trying to point out before......stay cool..xxx

[Rumours]

My answer:
They are ALL the most talented, because they are talented in their own ways.

Stevie cannot play instruments that well.....She knows it.....We know it......She has said "I have no idea what I'm doing". She bangs away at the piano and has no idea what she's playing......BUT, it's enough to get by and write her songs. Same thing with the guitar, it's enough to get by and write her songs. She can and does contribute on some songs with these instruments (not so much of Fleetwood Mac's songs, but her solo songs) and it does not sound bad. But she is not in Fleetwood Mac for her playing abilities (they don't need her to be able to play) and she has a band for her solo stuff as well. She fiddles, and it's amazing to me that she is able to write these great songs, when she really can't play these instruments that well. Her TALENT lies in her songwriting abilities and the connection that it makes with people, and her TALENT lies in her stage presence and the production and drama she puts on, and yes, in my opinion, her TALENT is also in her voice......while she does not sing like she used to (not many performers DO sound like they did THIRTY freaking years ago), she can still captivate MANY with her singing and over-all performance, myself included.

Lindsey's TALENT is in his unbelievable guitar playing, and his producing abilities. This is how HE captivates audiences. Lindsey is never going to give us a big production and drama on stage. Yes, his playing is jaw-dropping as far as I'm concerned, that's how he spellbinds people. Stevie does it in a different way. Lindsey's voice isn't like it used to be either. Will I say it's bad? No. But it is different. His major role in this band is not to be the greatest, most in-tune, most powerful, most beautiful singer--they don't have him for that.

Christine, INCREDIBLY TALENTED, probably because she is a trained musician, on the piano and keyboards. Vocally, you can liken her to the way heaven would sound!!! She sends chills through you with her voice. She's a wonderful writer of beautiful love songs. This is how SHE connects with people's live. Her TALENT. And she's the more down to earth one, everybody feels they could have as their good friend, to sit and shoot the breeze with. But Christine never has and never will have a jaw-dropping ability on the guitar or any other instrument, ability to produce, or EVER have a stage presence like Stevie had & still has. The band doesn't have Christine for these purposes. I totally agree with the statement about Chris being a cold fish on stage. She looks even bored and so totally not in the moment at times. Like "ok, are we done yet?".

Mick is one of the finest drummers I've ever heard. And someone was talking about the WAY that he drums. He is always like behind everyone else I guess you would say, he drums on the off-beat, that is his technique. This is his TALENT. He's unique. He's crazy!! It is also, I believe, actually some type of a learning disability, the fact that Mick plays something a certain way and then is susequently unable to exactly duplicate it again. He has said that he always had disabilities, even when he was a child and in school.
Mick is also the glue that has held (or at least tried to hold) everyone together, the permanent fixture, of the band.

John......Mick is right when he says "You're a monster, John". That's HIS TALENT in this band......monster pumping driving bass. But he can't write, never has. Doesn't produce, never has. Haven't seen him play an other instrument besides bass. And you forget about him, because he almost just disappears into the background. If ever there was a member of this band that had the LEAST amount of stage presence......it's John. But they don't have to have him putting on a big show, or writing anything profound, and singing--well, I still swear I never did hear him on Say You Love Me on The Dance tour, and I'm not sure I want to hear him sing, and I'm not real sure he can. But, they've had plenty of singers throughout the years. These things are not his talent.

Obviously, this is MY (in no way anyone else's) favorite incarnation. But Peter Green, Jeremy Spencer, Danny Kirwin, Bob Welch, Rick Vito (tears it up in concert, by the way), Billy Burnette......all great musicians and/or songwriters in their own right. Just not that big of a connection with as many people.....and not with me.

But nobody is talented at everything! To attack any of the members of this band, or to say that they have no talent or basically suck and have nothing, just because they're stronger in some aspects over other aspects is just nuts.

There are so many other things I could touch on here. No I don't think Letterman was anti-Stevie. Yeah, he poked fun here & there, but nothing was ever anti-Stevie, I hate Stevie, whatever. His beef was with the management. And they most certainly do not reflect anything about the artists themselves! Are you kidding me!??!!! Obviously, if that company represented what Stevie really was, wouldn't she still have them?? And does she? NO! She got rid of them. And why would Letterman joke about her being his "ex-wife" and have her on his show so much. He loves her! Anti-Stevie?? I just don't get that one.....

Why should Stevie need to reinvent herself? It's not her. The way she is now is how she's always been and it's her. You want her to not be her anymore? Wow, my post has gotten incredibly too long! Sorry folks!! I'll just end it here saying posters like TheTower, jwd, Johnny Stew.....are right on with all of their comments!!

Stephanie

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by tuigirl
Last thing I wanted to do was to start a humungous arguement...guess it's my kiwi attitude coming through...seems like there's more to FM than whether Stevie can play an instrument or not, which was what I was trying to point out before......stay cool..xxx

We've also extensively discussed Mick's abilities.

[baugh]

my list of most talented:
1. lindsay buckingham
2. peter green
3. john mcvie
4. christine mcvie]
5. mick fleetwood
6. bob welch
7. stevie nicks

lindsay carried the band in the mid 70's early 80's.
as far as Stevie goes, sitting in your room high and righting lyrics, well, anyone could come up w/ something interesting.... GOD lets finally give McVie some credit.... solid bass....

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

as far as Stevie goes, sitting in your room high and righting lyrics, well, anyone could come up w/ something interesting

Go on then mastermind....astound us with something if anyone could come up with something interesting!!! That is one heck of a sweeping statement with absolutely no substance....

Pip

[FiercestCalmSea]

That comment about being high and writing songs was a little bit much...obviously you haven't listened to all the songs she has written since she has been sober...still an amazing songwriter if you ask me...Seems to me she wasn't doing all that much coke way back when she wrote Landslide..which is one of her most prolific and enduring songs...anyone who thinks being high makes you some sort of poetic genius is sadly mistaken...drugs merely provide you with a false and temporary sense of emotion...Stevie has written a good lot of the Fleetwood Mac gems,and it was fueled by the way she sees things..always dramatic,etc...that is something you possess,it has nothing to do with what you are ingesting into your body :(

[bjk3047]

Last thing I wanted to do was to start a humungous arguement...guess it's my kiwi attitude coming through
You didn't start an argument of any proportion. You just misunderstood the proceedings.
...seems like there's more to FM than whether Stevie can play an instrument or not, which was what I was trying to point out before......
What's the title of this thread? Who are the most *talented members* of Fleetwood Mac. The title was not "How significant are members' contributions to Fleetwood Mac". I know I'm gonna get bashed for this next statement...Someone who can write and sing is inherently not as talented as someone who can write, sing, and play an instrument.
stay cool..xxx
I was never anything less than cool as a cumcumber :)
-Brian

[baugh]

may of been a bit harsh about my statements about Stevie... but if it wasn't for Lindsay (from a Fleetwood Mac stance) she would have a sheet of lyrics and thats it. Being that the thread is titled MOST TALENTED how can one NOT place her under her bandmates. She writes(great lyrics) bangs a tamborine and plays piano for demo purposes.... I'm talking w/ the Mac. I know all you Stevie fans don't agree but lets be logical. Maybe see does write/arrange music scores like Lindsey and CHristine, but I have never heard of it w/ the Mac. Just my thoughts, thats all they are. So don't get in tizzy over it.......PROGRESS......

[Jo and Jensen]

Originally posted by CarneVaca

Stevie? She wrote about six great songs in the 70s. But she hasn't done anything brilliant since Bella Donna. The idea that she could play keys with the band on stage is just comical. I'm not even sure she can play the piano with both hands. She herself has admitted that she "tic tacs" on the piano. I've followed this band for a long time, and it gets a little tiring to keep seeing the perpetuation of the Myth of Stevie Nicks. She was great early on, but now she is anything but.

We haven't been here in a while, but as far as Stevie's musical abilities...all you have to do is listen to her demos to hear her greatness. She CAN play piano and guitar. Sure, she isn't playing on stage or whatever, but she writes her songs and the basic melody and rhytm. Listen to the demo for "Sisters of the Moon", for example, and you hear Stevie playing the parts on piano that Lindsey later recreates with his guitar. She's got it all there, down to his solo! :-)
So, she doesn't like playing in front of people on a stage. That doesn't mean she isn't good at piano or guitar.

As for the question: musically- Lindsey and John; lyrically- Stevie.

Love,
Jo and Jensen

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

but if it wasn't for Lindsay (from a Fleetwood Mac stance) she would have a sheet of lyrics and thats it.

Well she seemed to manage without Lindsey for her solo stuff.

Pip

[blinker12]

This reminds me of a situation where there are 4 white guys and one black guy in an office. The black guy slacks off and doesn't do his job so he's fired. Then he turns around and sues for discrimination. Hey buddy, this has nothing to do with discrimination, you weren't doing your job!!

Whoa. I don't see how the scenario you describe has ANY relation to our debate about Stevie Nicks's talent. No one is claiming Stevie is being discriminated against because she is a woman, or blonde, or based on any other physical characteristic. And in any case, those arguments would not hold water in a band where there is already another blonde woman whose talent is not questioned.
We're debating Stevie's talent on its own merits, not as it relates to her appearance.
Incidentally: In any situation where there is one black man _ surrounded by white men _ who is fired, it's not unreasonable to look into the possibility of discrimination. I'm not saying discrimination is always or even usually going to be at play, but it's not illegitimate to consider the possibility.

[CarneVaca]

Damn, so much to reply to!

From Baugh: "May of been a bit harsh about my statements about Stevie... but if it wasn't for Lindsay (from a Fleetwood Mac stance) she would have a sheet of lyrics and thats it. Being that the thread is titled MOST TALENTED how can one NOT place her under her bandmates."

I don't think you were overly harsh at all. If that's how you feel, then go ahead and say it. If the Stevie apologists don't like it, they can have their say. I absolutely agree with your assessment: Fleetwood Mac would NOT have gained the popularity it did without Lindsey. Though Stevie, because she was beautiful and had an interesting stage persona, grabbed most of the attention, it was Lindsey's sheer arranging and producing genius that made Fleetwood what it was. All you have to do is watch the Making or Rumours and the other video about the making of Tusk to know that the Fleetwood Mac sound was (and is again) the Lindsey sound. Make no mistake about that.

Jo and Jensen: "Listen to the demo for "Sisters of the Moon", for example, and you hear Stevie playing the parts on piano that Lindsey later recreates with his guitar. She's got it all there, down to his solo! :-)
So, she doesn't like playing in front of people on a stage. That doesn't mean she isn't good at piano or guitar."

I haven't listened to the demo in question, though I find it extremely hard to believe that Stevie gave Lindsey a solo to play. Perhaps I am mistaken here. As for her playing, she's been tacking away at the piano and plucking strings at the guitar for 30 years or so. I would expect that she can play a few chords and notes. But to say she "can" play is an exaggeration.

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

Why does it have to be pointed out that one person is better than another. I think we have to remember here that they all compliment each other. The sound would not and is not complete without the 5 ( In my opinion anyway)

Just one thing though....If Lindsey is the be all and end all of Fleetwood mac and made them the success they are then why did he not mirror that with his solo career. Even the die-hard Lindsey fans have to admit that Stevie is the most popular member with her solo career. Mind you I think Lindsey reclusive behavior has alot to do with that too. This isn't me bashing Lindsey....I think he is a genius...it is just an observation

Pip

[Bella Figura]

CarneVaca, please go and download the Sister of the Moon demo, Lindsey did do a great job in the final production on the song but I think you will be pleasantly surprised with the demo...and while you're at it, get Stevie's TISL demo's as well especially the Love Is demo, and you'll see how she has grown over the years into a full fledged musician...Love Is is a perfect example of how she no longer just "plucks" at the piano...you too, Baugh!! :wavey:

[CarneVaca]

Gypsy-Rhiannon: "Why does it have to be pointed out that one person is better than another."

Well, the thread is about "most talented." I prefer Lindsey for his talents and skills, and for what he has contributed to the band. In my opinion, his contribution has been to create the Fleetwood Mac sound we all know and love. In his solo work he has opted to be more experimental and therefore come up with a new sound. That his solo work wasn't as popular certainly had to do with name recognition. "Buckingham" is not as easy to put with the face as Stevie Nicks is. His stage persona was not being photographed and discussed constantly. In early concert footage, he seems to be further back in the stage as opposed to his more upfront presence in the Dance.

Bella Figura: "CarneVaca, please go and download the Sister of the Moon demo, Lindsey did do a great job in the final production on the song but I think you will be pleasantly surprised with the demo...and while you're at it, get Stevie's TISL demo's as well especially the Love Is demo..."

I am going to take your word for it. If Stevie banged out the guitar solo notes on the piano first, OK, I accept that. It is surprising, however. As for listening to demos, thanks for the suggestion, but I find them endlessly boring. I really don't like demos. I listened to the Trouble in Shangri-La stuff and I couldn't get into it. So getting a demo for one of the songs is not likely to get my attention either.

I started out liking Fleetwood Mac because of Stevie Nicks. However, through the years my interest in music changed, and I started to understand the genius of Lindsey Buckingham. When I started really listening to Tusk, it was a huge revelation. I got it! I saw what he was going for.

As for Stevie, starting with Rock A Little, I decided she had given all she could. There was nothing left. Yet I still bought the albums that followed, only to be disappointed. Her only solo album I still listen to is Bella Donna. I simply cannot stand her voice now. There has been some disagreement about her voice on this board. To me, it does not sound good. Add to that the fact that her lyrics became rather cliched and unimaginative, and I couldn't keep listening.

[Bella Figura]

it is a shame you won't be taking my recommendations, CarneVaca, for you will be missing much joy and pleasure when the new album and tour gets underway...but this is how you honestly feel so I will not disrespect that...I have read your "Trio" thread with much enthusiasm, your loyalty to Lindsey is well placed...he has been for too long underated both musically as well as his production talent and he too, has had to endure much misconception about his public personna...

ps: my musical tastes have also changed over the years, the only thing I brought along with me from my rocknroll youth has been FM...

[bjk3047]

Originally posted by blinker12


Whoa. I don't see how the scenario you describe has ANY relation to our debate about Stevie Nicks's talent. No one is claiming Stevie is being discriminated against because she is a woman, or blonde, or based on any other physical characteristic. And in any case, those arguments would not hold water in a band where there is already another blonde woman whose talent is not questioned.
We're debating Stevie's talent on its own merits, not as it relates to her appearance.
Incidentally: In any situation where there is one black man _ surrounded by white men _ who is fired, it's not unreasonable to look into the possibility of discrimination. I'm not saying discrimination is always or even usually going to be at play, but it's not illegitimate to consider the possibility.

GEEZ. Okay, this is the SECOND someone has misunderstood the proceedings. PLEEEASE read more of the thread before picking one piece out of context and getting all worked up about it! AHH.
I was talking to tuigirl (thus the....quote) about her making this a gender issue when it had nothing to do with gender. I WAS NOT SAYING ANYTHING ABOUT STEVIE BEING DISCRIMINATED. I would've thought that was obvious by what I replied to. I'm sorry for getting a little upset, but you really took my comments as far out of context as I can see possible.
And incidentally: In the situation I described, you conviently disregarded the following sentence The black guy slacks off and doesn't do his job so he's fired. So yes, it's quite unreasonable to suggest discrimination. Thanks for understanding and if you could take a slightly close look next time, it would be much obliged.
-Brian

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by Bella Figura
it is a shame you won't be taking my recommendations, CarneVaca, for you will be missing much joy and pleasure when the new album and tour gets underway

Honestly, I appreciate the recommendation. Maybe I'll give TISL another chance.

[Rumours]

Originally posted by baugh
...as far as Stevie goes, sitting in your room high and righting lyrics, well, anyone could come up w/ something interesting....
Alrighty, smarty-pants ;) , first of all, it's writing, there's no such thing as righting. And my lord, by saying what you have just said, you have just taken away all validity and legitimacy of talent from most if not all artists in the history of music. Cuz let me tell ya something, THEY ALL GET HIGH AND DRUNK. Then, they write & play. That's the way it's been, that's the way it'll always be. If you think otherwise, then I'm really sorry, I don't know how to help you realize the truth. So, if you're statement is true as you believe that it is, then no musical artist has any talent in them at all and it's just the drugs and booze talkin'!!!!!

I just don't understand how anyone can say oh yeah I love Fleetwood Mac, they're my favorite band.....then sit there and have nothing but negative things to say about any of the individual members. I mean, for goodness sake, it doesn't ALL have to be positive, but find SOME good contributions....commenting to simply FLATTEN somebody is just irritating.

Oh mercy (deep sigh)......Stevie would not just have a sheet of lyrics......SHE does the basic track as well as the words to her songs........and might I just say that, sometimes, the same thing can be said about Lindsey--he's never been much of a lyricist....might he have wound up with just a sheet full of notes at times???? While the man is a genius and a guitar god, I've seen him be very short with words at times....repetitive at times as well. Hell one of his songs didn't even have a name until Stevie told him to use her name as the title!!

Jo & Jensen, I will agree with you there, Stevie can play when she wants to and needs to.....it IS more than simply fiddling....she just will never be one of the best guitar or piano players, is what I was trying to get at.

Carnevaca, by the way you are talking, it does not seem to me that you WANT to be exposed to anything that might give you the impression that Stevie did fine with her songs before Lindsey's influence upon them.........just my opinion. I do however agree with you on the point about Lindsey turning away from the "Fleetwood Mac" thing on his solo work and being more experimental on it, hence the reason for not as much, popularity, I guess you would say. But also, in his work with Fleetwood Mac, wouldn't you say that in order for him to do great things with the music, he had to start out with wonderful stuff--it's pretty hard to fashion something spectacular out of crap, don't you think. So the music he was getting from Stevie (and from Chris too) must have been pretty good.

My musical tastes have really changed as well......and it was really Stevie, her image, her writing, yes her singing, her everything, who initially brought me to this band.........she must still have something, because I am not alone in this.

I'm done reading threads with people that insist on pitting one member against another......it's the same damn band........they're all in it......

Stephanie

[sara1998]

I LOVE STEVIE NICKS!!

[BBALLGYPSY17]

These are just MY OPINIONS ..we all have a bias wether or not we choose to admit it...But this is what makes me a FAN and not some hard-nosed rock critic ....plus I don't get paid ;)



Lindsey/PRODUCER- Wonderful voice, nice guitar licks, but let's face it-Lindsey's genius is when he took the "raw material" and made it golden.....ENOUGH said.

Stevie/PERFORMER- Be honest....she was "the face" of this band. Ticket sales were moved by her as well as units...not just because of her look, but because she really can't play guitar OR Piano(that well anyways)...it's the people's "rockstar". The WRITING and the image that she contributed was immense, BUT that doesn't mean she's Lindsey's puppet..she survived on her own. Her words as well as her performance take talent in my eyes....to put yourself OUT there the way she did...CHARISMA is a talent...not everyone can go out there, act like an "ass" (I know some people out there think it) and get AWAY with it.

Chris/PLAYER-Always dependable,always understated, ALWAYS solid. The "musician's musician" yet she can crank out plenty of hit pop ditties on the drop of a dime. (and she did because she had the most hit singles of the band)....However I tend to think that her skill was "craft". She's wonderful and all,but when you think of "the sound of Fleetwood Mac" you don't think Chris Mcvie...You didn't really see her personality inside of it...not as much heart as other writers. I'm not saying she's "Nsyncy" or anything, but she kinda is the "Soupcan"(as far as writing not popularity) of the group...no offense, I still love her.

LOL:lol:
~alex~*

[Vianna]

I. Lindsey and Peter-can't really make a distinction between them-both are awesome and intense and so involved in their music
2. Chris-she's unbelievably talented and along with that, a hard worker and a person who does what needs to be done with a minimum of fuss and emotional trauma=:-)
3. John-have you heard that bass line in Sisters of the Moon lately? Incredible! He also is somebody who gets things done with a minimum of fuss and bother
4. Mick-he's held that band together through all the trauma and soap opera stuff and different people and personalities-I don't know about musical talent but he certainly has talent for holding things together
5. Stevie-her gift is her ability to write lyrics that speak to people and her ability to relate to an audience
6. Bob Welch-let's not forget him-he tends to get forgotten-he's got some great songs there=:-)
Jeremy Spencer was no slouch either from what I have read-I am not as familiar with his solo work as I probably ought to be; this is also true of Rick and Billy-I just don't know enough about them to say anything.

[Amy Y]

Originally posted by Gypsy-Rhiannon
Just one thing though....If Lindsey is the be all and end all of Fleetwood mac and made them the success they are then why did he not mirror that with his solo career. Even the die-hard Lindsey fans have to admit that Stevie is the most popular member with her solo career. Mind you I think Lindsey reclusive behavior has alot to do with that too. This isn't me bashing Lindsey....I think he is a genius...it is just an observation

Pip

I would write a list of the most talented, but I can't do it. Why? Because I haven't even heard any fm albums that don't include Lindsey Buckingham, and although I wouldn't mind taking a listen, I probably won't unless an copy of something lands in my lap. I tend to agree with CareVaca who conluded that Lindsey's lack of popularity as a solo artist compared to Stevie's had to do with name recognition. I don't know, but at the time, in my town, my age group, Out of the Cradle singles were more popular than Stevie's solos.

If it hadn't been for hearing some of Out of the Cradle on the radio and wanting to hear more of Lindsey, I wouldn't have ever picked up a FM album. I did NOT like Fleetwood Mac, as all I knew from them were their radio-popular singles "Everywhere" and "Little Lies", songs that I still don't like to this day. I also didn't like Stevie's voice from what I heard of her Bella Donna singles. I took the chance anyway, and went through fm albums one at a time. I liked them, and not just the Lindsey songs. I also ended up liking Stevie's voice. I found her fun to harmonize with. It wasn't her, though, that got me into Fleetwood Mac. It was Lindsey. It was the rest of Fleetwood Mac that made my stay last.

love to all,

Amy Yeo

[CarneVaca]

How often does a thread hit 100 here?

[Hawkeye]

I like sara:confused: :confused: :rolleyes:

[highpriestess53]

Each member of FM is as talented as each other....and let me qualify what I say...... this is because they are all unique in their own way. Each brings their gift and craft to this most enduring of bands and makes the FM entity what it is. Each member gives life to the band there is not one individual that makes the band.
Stevie creates beautiful dreamscapes with her lyrics, Lindsey's guitar playing is pure genius as is his work in the studio, if we are keeping Christine in this mix she plays wonderful piano and keyboards and writes simple meaningful lyrics John and Mick make up the meanest rhytm section going......but you know not one of the individuals can do what the other does. Christine can't write like Stevie, Stevie can't play guitar like Lindsey, Lindsey can't play drums or bass like Mick and John, John can't play piano like Chrisitine etc.......so there is no ONE talent greater than the other......



:nod: :nod: :nod:

[rhiannon1119]

Very well said.. Louise.

:) Michelle

[DownOnRodeo]

Any thread with numerous Carnevaca appearances is always good fun!:laugh: ;) :wavey:

OK, music is such a broad term... and everything's relative anyway. So this is how I break down the talent of FM for myself.

MUSIC (strict sense) Dr Christine McVie (heh heh I love writing that DMus!)
MUSICIANSHIP Peter Green
ARRANGER/PRODUCER Lindsey Buckingham
ENTERTAINER Stevie Nicks

(sorry for all the neglected Mac members - well this is the Rumours forum)

Beyond that it'sa question of what ifs.

WHAT IF word hadn't got around about Stevie's powerful/posessed Rhiannon performances?

WHAT IF Chris McVie hadn't been there to supply a steady stream of pop pap that's so fine tuned she no doubt earnt the band the brand Patron Saints of Pop

WHAT IF Lindsey Buckingham hadn't leant his hand in the production process, of course eventually effecting even greater control (and now TOTAL control! Oh man I can't wait!!)

WHAT IF Mick Fleetwood hadn't persisted on the maintaining the band, against hopeless odds, with such a singularly demonic bent, which is not so much about the music or the money as it is the validation of his very livelihood.

WHAT IF John McVie did not exercise the license Lindsey 'suffered' him to play such 'mobile' bass? If you ask me a distinguishing feature between the manufactured sheen of Behind the Mask v Lindsey albums is that Lindsey almost nurtures John's inspired bass lines. This covert musical element defines that bulk of work by counterpoint; like our own subconscious defines us, but we focus and get carried away on the melodies of our conscious.

WHAT IF Greeny hadn't taken up Mayall's suggestion to go his own way?

:confused: :p :wavey: :nod:

[WhiteWingedOne]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by highpriestess53
[
Christine can't write like Stevie, Stevie can't play guitar like Lindsey, Lindsey can't play drums or bass like Mick and John, John can't play piano like Chrisitine etc.......so there is no ONE talent greater than the other......



You contradict yourself there. If one plays or sings better than any of the others, then that particular talent is greater than the talent of the other member(s). I need a beer now. :lol: I can see that the people who like..totally worship Stevie would applaud if she stood up and shat in the piano bench. No matter what some dudes here say, she can't play piano, and all her demos really blow until someone like Lindsey or someone MAKES them into real songs. Would she have made it on her own? I don't think so.


:distress: :distress:

[DownOnRodeo]

I beg to differ.
I play piano, and although I give a clear rating for piano skills to Dr Chris:nod: over Stevie any day...

....the Sisters of the Moon demo with Stevie + simple piano is brilliant. Musically, in every sense, it catches a potency that is not quite there in the Tusk cut, or is somehow hammed up, as it was after all Tusk's only mega-rock outro vent for Lindsey.

;)

[estranged4life]

DownOnRodeo...lol...Brian

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by WhiteWingedOne
No matter what some dudes here say, she can't play piano, and all her demos really blow until someone like Lindsey or someone MAKES them into real songs. Would she have made it on her own? I don't think so.

Ahem... I agree. Never mind the demos. Listen to that version of Rhiannon in the box set. Scary! I think the Barenaked Ladies had a good take on the box set phenomenon, but I forget the name of the song.

[highpriestess53]

Originally posted by WhiteWingedOne
[QUOTE]Originally posted by highpriestess53
[
Christine can't write like Stevie, Stevie can't play guitar like Lindsey, Lindsey can't play drums or bass like Mick and John, John can't play piano like Chrisitine etc.......so there is no ONE talent greater than the other......



You contradict yourself there. If one plays or sings better than any of the others, then that particular talent is greater than the talent of the other member(s). I need a beer now. :lol: I can see that the people who like..totally worship Stevie would applaud if she stood up and shat in the piano bench. No matter what some dudes here say, she can't play piano, and all her demos really blow until someone like Lindsey or someone MAKES them into real songs. Would she have made it on her own? I don't think so.


:distress: :distress:


You have totally missed the point............

[FiercestCalmSea]

Ok,i don't like...totally worship Stevie,first of all..but Louise's point was pretty damn simple to understand.Each member has a unique talent which they excel at(Stevie's is writing,not the piano,though i'd like to see some people pull off anything so simple yet so astounding),and therefore they are equal.Not a difficult concept to grasp...

[tommer]

(yes, i'm back, and i'm pissed)
[i]and all her demos really blow until someone like Lindsey or someone MAKES them into real songs. Would she have made it on her own? I don't think so.[/B]
dear, demos don't need to sound good, demos shows potential and that's about it.
stevie nicks may not be the most scholarly musician, so she desperetly needs a good musical producer around, true, but i think jimmy iovine, for example, did a better job for her than lindsey (god, if lindsey is indeed such a miracle worker, than why can't he create that same miracles for his own solo stuff, uh???).

anyway, (and no, this is not my two cents, that's solid truth carved in stone...), the validity of stevie nicks as a poet, an amazingly strong vocal performer and as a cultural icon is something which needs a highly ignorant thinking in order to have ANY doubt about.

[David]

Originally posted by DownOnRodeo
the Sisters of the Moon demo with Stevie + simple piano is brilliant. Musically, in every sense, it catches a potency that is not quite there in the Tusk cut, or is somehow hammed up, as it was after all Tusk's only mega-rock outro vent for Lindsey.
I've always thought that the "Sisters" demo was Stevie's best piano playing of any of the demos. I don't know that I'd call it brilliant, but it's a good demo & the piano playing is thankfully not filled with Stevie's typical starts & stops -- she keeps this one smooth (thanks to a click track). Also, she somehow found the right inversions for the chords, which gave the arrangement an otherwordly cool atmosphere. You can hear her play the same arrangement in the 20/20 show from television.

If anyone's interested in getting the arrangement, give me a call. I've worked it out.

[DownOnRodeo]

Yes! David thanks for saying what I tried to:distress: :wavey:
The bare piano inversions create the main disparity between the demo and the album track. It's musically a whole other sound, much stronger. Especially that haunting bridge..
Some call me sister of the moon
Some say illusions are my gaaaaaame
(piano: doo doo da-doo da-da)

Hmm I guess this isn't a Sisters of the Moon thread. Sorry :confused: But hey I'm actually standing up for Stevie's musicality :nod: :eek:

[DownOnRodeo]

Sorry BBALLGYPSY17. I didn't read your post until now and it seems I basically fobbed off you! Great minds think alike!!!!
:distress: :confused: :laugh:

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by tommer
I think jimmy iovine, for example, did a better job for her than lindsey (god, if lindsey is indeed such a miracle worker, than why can't he create that same miracles for his own solo stuff, uh???).


Tommer, I am going to respectfully disagree with that. While I understand your social icon argument, from a musical standpoint, you're off key. We can disagree over whether Jimmy Iovine did a better job than Lindsey in the studio. I happen to like Jimmy's work; he did a nice job on two of her albums. But I like Lindsey's work far better.

It seems you are implying Lindsey isn't as good a producer as some of us give him credit for because of his lack of commercial success with his solo work. Really, those are separate factors. One could in fact argue that had his production been less brilliant, or say more average and conforming to trends, he might have been more popular. Genius is often dismissed because it is misunderstood.

[Vianna]

I would agree that genius is often misunderstood; in fact, it usually is=:-)

Jimmy I think from what I have read (or heard on tv?)was trying to create a "different" sound for Stevie in her solo work so that it would be distinguishable from her FM stuff. I prefer the way she sounds when Lindsey produces her songs but there is some good Iovine material, too.

Question: who produced Nightbird for her? It would be Jimmy wouldn't it?

[sara1998]

Originally posted by DownOnRodeo
I beg to differ.
I play piano, and although I give a clear rating for piano skills to Dr Chris:nod: over Stevie any day...

....the Sisters of the Moon demo with Stevie + simple piano is brilliant. Musically, in every sense, it catches a potency that is not quite there in the Tusk cut, or is somehow hammed up, as it was after all Tusk's only mega-rock outro vent for Lindsey.

;)

can some kind soul send me a copy of this demo????

[~nightbird~]

Okay, here goes....my choices would be:

1.Peter Green

2.Lindsey Buckingham

3.Christine McVie

4.Bob Welch

5.Rick Vito

JMHO of the top 5 but all are talented! Each member over the years has contributed/continues to contribute something unique to the sound and spirit of Fleetwood Mac!

take care all,
~nightbird~