"Street Angel" and "Jane"

[miriamswell]

Ok, blame this post on way tooooo much caffeine and a lack of new topics for a while.;) I am one of those odd people who actually likes "Street Angel." I especially like the outtakes, which have far fewer affects. Songs like "Blue Denim," "Street Angel," "Rose Garden," "Destiny," and even "Just Like a Woman" are quintessentially Stevie. And who else could just phone Dylan to come play harmonic? How can you not love this woman? On the outtake she does a perfect Bob imitation without turning into parody.

My favorite song is "Jane," but then I have always adored Jane Goodall and “her” incredible chimpanzees. I get the feeling that for whatever reason Stevie really connected with Jane Goodall, even if they’ve never met. BTW, does anyone know if they =have= met? Dr. Goodall is, like Stevie, a woman who sacrificed everything to her passion -- in this case the study and survival of the chimpanzee. Dr. Goodall has lived in the jungle for almost her entire adult life. She has risked life and limb to protect her chimps from poachers, politics and ignorance. And then there are the chimps themselves. You cannot look into a chimp's eyes without singing a soul that is both gentle and wise and oftentimes sad. But they can also be very playful and great jokers (like Mick!:D ) I also have the feeling that Stevie in someway sensed all of this about the chimps. She was at a time when she was being both judged and scorned by a press and public who had once deemed her the High Priestess of Rock and Roll. Maybe she had chance to spend some time with a chimp or chimps and was in some way healed a bit by their non-judgmental love. A captive chimp judges people by the quality of the snacks they provide and how much hugging and tumbling they wish to participate in; they bring no agendas to the interaction. Much like a child. So maybe Stevie was identifying with Jane and realizing what a huge tragedy it would be if there were no more chimpanzees in the world. It is also interesting that Stevie uses the "pushed against the wall" refrain from "Joan of Arc." Maybe Stevie was envious of Jane's exile, which was self-imposed rather than a cause of external forces. Who knows? All I know is that for whatever reason, Stevie wrote a gorgeous and powerful song. I would love other opinions!
Mim, feeling chatty:o

[tommer]

a lack of new topics for a while.
yeah, those stupid polls and pointless speculations threads does make this place a little more shallow... (and which tampon do you think stevie uses???)
the chit chat forum is very missed.
I am one of those odd people who actually likes "Street Angel."
me too.
it's not that i don't think this album has it's fair share of bad tracks (unconditional love, rose garden, destiny, maybe love and listen to the rain) but over all it's an album which i will more easily listen to these days than to TOSOTM or RAL for example.
i don't really care that much about the chimps tho, they make annoying noises and i think they carry parasites. not to mention the fact that they smell bad... :nod:

[BellaDonnaGypsy]

Yay! People who do actually like Street Angel! :D So it's not Stevie's best, but then I guess her worst is far greater than most people's best. :nod: There are songs on Street Angel that I really love, such as Greta and Rose Garden.

Laura.

[Robert]

Stevie and Jane Goodall have met ,she performed "Jane ' at a tribute to Jane Goodall,I believe about a year before Street Angel was released.

[estranged4life]

like "Street Angel"...Maybe not all of it I enjoy, But there is a few songs that are quite fun to listen to:

"Blue Denim", "Greta", "Street Angel", "Listen To The Rain", & "Rose Garden"

Still not as bad an album as assumed...Brian

[rhiannon1119]

I also like Street Angel. Granted, it was not one of Stevie's best, but there is something about it that I like. I can listen to it straight through without hardly ever skipping a song. Jane is one of my favorite tracks on there, as well as.. Destiny, Rose Garden, Love Is Like A River, Greta and Blue Denim. I also really love the way she sounds when she is singing Just Like A Woman!

:) Michelle

[KathyD]

I enjoy several songs from Street Angel -- Maybe Love... is probably in my top 10 fave Stevie solo songs. And I like Blue Denim, Street Angel, Destiny. I also dislike a few songs, especially Unconditional Love. But I enjoy listening to this album more than OSOTM.

About Jane... I really didn't like this song for the first couple of years that I had this CD. I guess I just couldn't get over the fact that she actually had the word "chimpanzee" in a song. Even after I found out that the song was about some lady named Jane Goodall who worked with chimpanzees, I still didn't like it. Then, a couple of months ago, I read a book about Jane Goodall. What an amazing lady. She knew exactly what she wanted to do with her life at a very young age, and she went after it... totally. I definitely admire her determination and spirit. Anyway, now I listen to the song from a different perspective, and I kind of like it. Especially the lyrics, I guess. It's still not a favorite, but now I don't skip over it.

[miriamswell]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who likes "Street Angel." It is interesting though that almost nobody has the same favorite songs, usually people seem to agree about any given songs from an album.

I agree Greta is also gorgeous.

I am so glad Steve was able to meet Jane Goodall. She, Dr. Goodall, is one of the most amazing women ever.

Tommer, keep in mind that humans and chimps share 99% of their DNA and that the chimp/human split occurred less then 5 millionyears ago, a dew drop in the bucket of evolution, which makes them our closest relatives on earth. Perhaps that explains the male propensity to scratch without shame, make relentless advances toward any available female and eat whatever is handed to them. I won't even get into the smelly part or the bit about parasites -- too obvious.;) And did you know that chimps are not only capable of acquiring and using language, they are also able to fabricate and use tools. Still sounding an awful lot like a guy. Hmmm. Could this be why there is so much pressure of late to teach creationism rather than evolution in the schools? A strong desire not to let the genetic cat out of the bag, so to speak? <VEG>
~Mim, reliving physical anthropology

[tommer]

Tommer, keep in mind that humans and chimps share 99% of their DNA and that the chimp/human split occurred less then 5 millionyears ago, a dew drop in the bucket of evolution, which makes them our closest relatives on earth.
perhaps the ability to see that this single remaining 1% can make such a HUGE difference is one of the things which makes us human...
Perhaps that explains the male propensity to scratch without shame, make relentless advances toward any available female and eat whatever is handed to them. I won't even get into the smelly part or the bit about parasites -- too obvious
... that's not the way you'll get yourself a husband darling.

[DrummerDeanna]

I like Street Angel as well, though it is my least favorite album. I hated it when I first bought it...then it grew on me..I think the only songs I don't listen to on it are Street Angel, Docklands, and Jane...I love Greta...and Destiny, and Just Like a Woman, and Kicks it...Yeah...I think I may go and listen to Jane after this thread, I just have a problem with songs that have the same name as my relatives....I have this same problem with Shery Crow's song Rose Marie...anyway...I'm about to start rambling...so I'll end my bit here :)

[miriamswell]

DrummerDeanna, did you by any chance used to post (frequently;) on a now vanished Tom Petty board? Your name is really familiar. "Kick It" is great -- Mike Campbell plays on it and I think it is one of the few songs Stevie wrote on the electric guitar. That is another one of her songs that is multi-layered -- drug references to refer to romance that refer back to drug references. And a great hook.

Tommer darling, you are taking this a bit personally, aren't you? Perhaps the 1% to which you refer so vehemently is rather more a personal idiosyncrasy instigated by perhaps the teeniest bit of insecurity, than a sweeping statement about the family tree of Homo Sapiens Sapiens.* And* you are making assumptions, which is a bit coarse. I appreciate your concern, but trust me, my dear boy, I most certainly would never consort with a man who is hairy, unwashed, infested with parasites, lacking binocular vision, unfamiliar with the English canon and hasn't developed a palate for ceviche and La Grande Dame de Veuve-Clicquot. Finally, if I may be frank with you -- I hope that isn't too much of an assumption on my part, but since you seem so concerned for my well being, I feel it only appropriate to return the favor -- in my experience, chimps tend to be a bit more, shall we say, discerning, then you appear to be.
~Mim

[DrummerDeanna]

Originally posted by miriamswell
DrummerDeanna, did you by any chance used to post (frequently;) on a now vanished Tom Petty board? Your name is really familiar. "Kick It" is great -- Mike Campbell plays on it and I think it is one of the few songs Stevie wrote on the electric guitar. That is another one of her songs that is multi-layered -- drug references to refer to romance that refer back to drug references. And a great hook.



No....that wasn't me...I never did post on any Tom Petty boards...but I used to frequent a Xena board..LoL...

[KathyD]

Originally posted by tommer
... that's not the way you'll get yourself a husband darling.

darling tommer, what century are you living in? i certainly can't speak for miriamswell, but i would never censor myself from stating facts or even opinions just because it might stop me from "getting a husband" (by the way, i am happily married). or were you just joking around? god i hope so.

[tommer]

Originally posted by KathyD
were you just joking around? god i hope so.
of course i did.
after miriamswell's post i felt an urgent need to stick a chauvinistic remark there to get even.
obviously enough, i wasn't REALLY trying to be personal, the funny outcome of this is ridiculing MY discernment.:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
hairy, unwashed, infested with parasites, lacking binocular vision, unfamiliar with the English canon me.....

[highpriestess53]

Originally posted by miriamswell
Could this be why there is so much pressure of late to teach creationism rather than evolution in the schools? <VEG>
~Mim, reliving physical anthropology


This subject constantly amuses me......creation v evolution....

BUT lets be honest since when did the THEORY Of Evolution as propagated by Charles Darwin become fact????

[miriamswell]

You are absolutely, 100% right, highpriestess53, Darwin’s theory of evolution has never, ever, in the history of the whole wide world been proven, but neither has it been disproved. And that is the fun and wacky part of science – scientific theories by their nature are impossible to prove, they can only be disproved. Aren’t those scientists a bunch of slap happy, goofy, fun loving guys? How can you not love them, bless their little hearts. As for the fossil record -- which unfortunately for all of us is an actual and tangible thing that you can see, feel, touch and even taste if you’re feeling lucky -- perhaps God put them bones on earth to test our faith. I mean really, what’s a bunch of silly old rocks compared to sacrificing your only son? If Abraham could do it, so can we! So, to borrow heavily from Kierkegard, those silly rocks are there to remind us that we must make that leap of faith, accepting anything and everything presented by religious doctrine as the truth and the truth only. Thus by embracing creationism, we are embracing God himself. And only God and work can set us free.

[RhiannonDncr]

Originally posted by miriamswell
and even "Just Like a Woman" are quintessentially Stevie. And who else could just phone Dylan to come play harmonic? How can you not love this woman? On the outtake she does a perfect Bob imitation without turning into parody.


ok, to totally change this thread from Darwin's Theory and all that - I have a quick question - does anyone have an mp3 of the "Just Like A Woman" outtake? I would love to hear Stevie's Bob imitation... :nod:

- Katie

[miriamswell]

I have it on cd, so if someone can talk me through getting it from the cd-rom version into a format for email, I would be more than happy to do it. Just remember, on a good day I find using the iron a bit complicated!:o If that doesn't work I can burn you a copy of the whole cd if you don't mind a bit of a wait. It is worth it, I am a HUGE Dylan (or as he is called in our house, The Bob) and this is probably the best cover I've ever heard. Even my poor, ignorant husband who doesn't like Stevie likes this version. And just as an interesting factoid that has nothing to do with evolution (or at least of the Darwinian variety :laugh: ) is supposedly written about Edie Sedgewick, who was a model that hung out with the Andy Warhol crowd. Apparently, there was some tension between the 2 groups about where she "belonged." Edie Brickell wrote "Little Miss S" about her.
Cheers
~Mim

[highpriestess53]

Originally posted by miriamswell
You are absolutely, 100% right, highpriestess53, Darwin’s theory of evolution has never, ever, in the history of the whole wide world been proven, but neither has it been disproved. And that is the fun and wacky part of science – scientific theories by their nature are impossible to prove, they can only be disproved. Aren’t those scientists a bunch of slap happy, goofy, fun loving guys? How can you not love them, bless their little hearts. As for the fossil record -- which unfortunately for all of us is an actual and tangible thing that you can see, feel, touch and even taste if you’re feeling lucky -- perhaps God put them bones on earth to test our faith. I mean really, what’s a bunch of silly old rocks compared to sacrificing your only son? If Abraham could do it, so can we! So, to borrow heavily from Kierkegard, those silly rocks are there to remind us that we must make that leap of faith, accepting anything and everything presented by religious doctrine as the truth and the truth only. Thus by embracing creationism, we are embracing God himself. And only God and work can set us free.

One should never blindly accept religious doctrine......leaps of faith can kill......it takes study, time and proof.....
As for the science guys well they are unfortunately too close to playing God in certain fields...and find it hard to accept that there is a greater being than them controlling it all....Funny how some of the fiercests scientific battles are waged amongst the scientists themselves who can not agree on the origins of man....and yet they have one of the most accurate science books to hand and they choose to ignore it.......it makes their complex lives too simple. The fossil record has holes the size of the Grand Canyon in it to be really considered worthy of looking at as a serious record of how man got here. Creation??.....the evidence is all around us....ask a genetisist about genes mutating enough to produce a different species and they say it isn't even remotely possible. It sorta blows evolution out of the water....
So life from cosmic soup as propogated by the evolutionists is as probable as a washing machine assembling the component parts of a telephone on the spin cycle.

I go with the creation....it is the only sensible conclusion......
The Master Builders signature is stamped on everything.....if you look close enough

[highpriestess53]

Originally posted by miriamswell
....... "Just Like a Woman" are quintessentially Stevie. And who else could just phone Dylan to come play harmonic? How can you not love this woman? On the outtake she does a perfect Bob imitation without turning into parody.


MMMmmmmm...actually Just Like A Woman is not so much quintessential Stevie as in quintessential Bob Dylan....he wrote the song... Stevie used it.....read the words and it pretty much fits Stevie like a glove...:nod: :nod:

[RhiannonDncr]

Originally posted by miriamswell
I have it on cd, so if someone can talk me through getting it from the cd-rom version into a format for email, I would be more than happy to do it. Just remember, on a good day I find using the iron a bit complicated!:o If that doesn't work I can burn you a copy of the whole cd if you don't mind a bit of a wait. It is worth it, I am a HUGE Dylan (or as he is called in our house, The Bob) and this is probably the best cover I've ever heard. Even my poor, ignorant husband who doesn't like Stevie likes this version.

The Bob?? That's so great *lol* I love when I find Mac/Bob connections...I just found an mp3 of Lindsey and Mick doing "Love Minus Zero" at the AHI and almost died...it's fabulous :nod:

Ok, the only way I can help you with transferring a track from a CD to the computer is if you have a CD burner. I'm pretty bad with computers too. I only know how to use mine but I'll try. :eek: So a little background info - do you have Windows? And what program do you use to play CDs on the computer? If you use Windows Media Player, I can help you, but if you don't, I'm pretty clueless - :( - sorry about all the questions - if anyone else is better at this than I am, feel free to step right in and help :)

- Katie

[Lori]

Mim and Louise,

I know it's off-topic, but I am totally loving following your God/creation vs. evolution conversation. It totally charges me when someone has similar thoughts to mine, and still has the brain cells and neurons left to express those thoughts so intelligently and eloquently. :nod: Most days, I feel challenged just to put a full, grammatically correct sentence together! Of course, I suppose that is what happens when one is exposed to nothing all day long except for the cries of three little starlings shouting "Juice! I need more juice!" "I have to go potty!" "MOM, he/she touched me!" "Mom, he/she is repeating everything I say again!" "Why can't we have spaghetti and meatballs for supper again tonight?" and on and on and on and on...

(Really, though, I do adore them! ;) :laugh: )

Thanks again, guys. Mim, I've also enjoyed the other posts you've shared with us recently. Keep those thoughts coming!

Lori :wavey:

[miriamswell]

I am sorry for you, my friend/no matter how much you struggle and strive/you'll never get out of this world alive.
~Hank Williams

I said to Hank Williams: how lonely does it get?
Hank Williams hasn't answered yet
But I hear him coughing all night long
A hundred floors above me
In the Tower of Song
~Leonard Cohen

So you see, my sweet High Priestess, God is in the details. I would never dare dream, with my paltry intellect and my fragile faith to speak for God or even for those who claim to speak for God. Because, at the end, when the darkness surrounds, the only thing you have is what you have gathered and treasured and held close to heart and mind.

Now you can say that I've grown bitter but of this you may be sure
The rich have got their channels in the bedrooms of the poor
And there's a mighty judgement coming, but I may be wrong
You see, you hear these funny voices
In the Tower of Song
~Leonard Cohen

I been double-crossed now for the very last time and now I'm finally free,
I kissed goodbye the howling beast on the borderline which separated you from me.
You'll never know the hurt I suffered nor the pain I rise above,
And I'll never know the same about you, your holiness or your kind of love,
And it makes me feel so sorry.

Idiot wind, blowing through the buttons of our coats,
Blowing through the letters that we wrote.
Idiot wind, blowing through the dust upon our shelves,
We're idiots, babe.
It's a wonder we can even feed ourselves
~Bob Dylan

Some women wait for Jesus, and some women wait for Cain
so I hang upon my altar
and I hoist my axe again.
And I take the one who finds me back to where it all began
when Jesus was the honeymoon
and Cain was just the man.
And we read from pleasant Bibles that are bound in blood and skin
that the wilderness is gathering
all its children back again.

You don't know me from the wind
you never will, you never did
I'm the little jew
who wrote the Bible
I've seen the nations rise and fall
I've heard their stories, heard them all
but love's the only engine of survival
Your servant here, he has been told
to say it clear, to say it cold:
It's over, it ain't going
any further
And now the wheels of heaven stop
you feel the devil's riding crop
Get ready for the future:
it is murder
~Leonard Cohen (again, oddly enough)

Now Ophelia, she's 'neath the window
For her I feel so afraid
On her twenty-second birthday
She already is an old maid

To her, death is quite romantic
She wears an iron vest
Her profession's her religion
Her sin is her lifelessness
And though her eyes are fixed upon
Noah's great rainbow
She spends her time peeking
Into Desolation Row
~Bob Dylan (yet again, fancy that)


Between the idea
And the reality
Between the motion
And the act
Falls the Shadow
For Thine is the Kingdom

Between the conception
And the creation
Between the emotion
And the response
Falls the Shadow
Life is very long

Between the desire
And the spasm
Between the potency
And the existence
Between the essence
And the descent
Falls the Shadow
For Thine is the Kingdom


For thine is
Life is
For thine is the

This is the way the world ends
] This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
Not with a bang but a whimper
~TS Eliot, a man of God

THE SECOND COMING
Turning and turning
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

Surely some revelation is at hand;
Surely the Second Coming is at hand:
The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
When a vast image of Spiritus Mundi
Troubles my sight; somewhere in the sands of the desert
A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
Reel Shadows of the indignant desert birds.
The darkness drops again; but now I know
That twenty centuries of stony sleep
Were vexed to a nightmare by a rocking cradle,
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?
William Butler Yeats, (yet another man of God)

So you see, my sweet High Priestess, God is in the details. I would never dare dream, with my paltry intellect and my fragile faith to speak for God or even for those who claim to speak for God. Because, at the end, when the darkness surrounds, the only thing you have is what you have gathered and treasured and held close to heart and mind.

Listen, Israel, God is Great, God is One
The Torah

Praise God, for he is Great. God is One.
The Koran

All the Gods are one God and All the Goddesses, One Goddess
Pre-Christian dogma of the indigenous peoples of Britain

And now for a little bit of fun Stevie trivia! Name that songwriter:

Outside my door...the rain is falling
A cold, wild wind will come
Well there's someone for me...somewhere
But I still miss that one


No I never got over those blue eyes
I see them...everywhere...
And I miss...those arms that held me
Baby, when all the love was there


Well I wonder...if he's sorry
For ending what we had begun
Well there's someone...someone for me somewhere
Baby, well I still miss someone


And I never got over those blue eyes
I see them...everywhere...
And I miss...those arms that held me
Ooh baby, when all the love was there


And I never got over those blue eyes
I see them...everywhere...
And I miss...those arms that held me
Baby, when all the love was there
Baby, when all the love was there
Baby, when all the love was there...

And the answer is.....Johnny Cash

~Mim, all tuckered out from a'preachin' and a'quotin'

[tommer]

Originally posted by highpriestess53

since when did the THEORY Of Evolution as propagated by Charles Darwin become fact????
i don't think darwinism was declared as a 'fact'...
it IS a theory (and a very reasonable one if you ask me) but science was always very aware of the difference between a theory and proven facts.
it's the creation/religious theory which is the one which is declared as 'a fact' by it's believers during the last few thousands years...

[jwd]

Posted by Lori: Mim, I've also enjoyed the other posts you've shared with us recently. Keep those thoughts coming!

I have to agree with Lori here...Mim I've loved reading your posts over the last few days. Thanks and keep em' coming!

I'm an animal lover myself and very much admire Jane Goodall and her DEDICATION to what she holds precious in her life...the chimpanzee. The correlation to Stevie and her love of music is obvious. The fact that she was inspired to write a song about "Jane" makes me believe even stronger that Stevie uses her craft to promote communication of trying to make the world a better place....to a HIGHER EVOLUTION.


Joe

[highpriestess53]

Originally posted by tommer

i don't think darwinism was declared as a 'fact'...
it IS a theory (and a very reasonable one if you ask me) but science was always very aware of the difference between a theory and proven facts.
it's the creation/religious theory which is the one which is declared as 'a fact' by it's believers during the last few thousands years...

It is unfortunate that some of the worlds religionists subscribe to Darwin's theories.....and in our schools it has been taught as fact for many many years.......'this is how man came about we started out as monkeys and came down from the trees and finally became man'..........hogwash!!
God is a God of order not disorder so that would rule out him leaving the 'evolution' in Darwinian terms of man to chance.
A couple of questions that have to be addressed are
'Are the apes still coming down from the trees??'
I f not then WHO or WHAT put a halt to this evolutionary process??
When you have come to your conclusions at this point you would have to start to questioning the whole evolutionary process and look far more favourably on Creation as the process by which we exist. When you look at the complexities of our human organism is this a work of natural chance or masterful design......take a look at how the eye is put together.... cosmic soup thunder and lightning adding a dash of luck and the odd amoeba to taste. OR a carefully designed complex piece of Godly engineering......
The Creator wins.....:laugh: :laugh:

[miriamswell]

My dear highpriestess,

I cannot tell you the extent to which I disagree with you, but I would die defending our right to disagree. That said, I find what you have to say about evolution to be dated, ignorant, naive, offensive and absurd. All I can say to you is that I am sorry you feel that way. The argument you make and the people who support it make me feel tired and old. I am feeling tired and old. I can provide you with a reading list that would overwhelm the most dedicated scholar, but I know it would be a waste of my time and yours. The true tragedy in all of this is that in your inflexible stance you have closed yourself off to knowledge and new ideas. Do you really think that is what your god wants for you? To blindly believe without question? To close your eyes to anything that does not fit into your narrow, rigid worldview? To judge in ignorance those who do not accept your opinion as absolute truth – and that’s Truth with a great big “T” that’s peddled in the mystic’s booth? For all our sakes I hope not. I am not going to bother arguing with you or citing evidence or in any way proceeding with what has become a one sided discussion. I can only wish you peace and long life.

[highpriestess53]

Originally posted by miriamswell
My dear highpriestess,

I cannot tell you the extent to which I disagree with you, but I would die defending our right to disagree. That said, I find what you have to say about evolution to be dated, ignorant, naive, offensive and absurd. All I can say to you is that I am sorry you feel that way. The argument you make and the people who support it make me feel tired and old. I am feeling tired and old. I can provide you with a reading list that would overwhelm the most dedicated scholar, but I know it would be a waste of my time and yours. The true tragedy in all of this is that in your inflexible stance you have closed yourself off to knowledge and new ideas. Do you really think that is what your god wants for you? To blindly believe without question? To close your eyes to anything that does not fit into your narrow, rigid worldview? To judge in ignorance those who do not accept your opinion as absolute truth – and that’s Truth with a great big “T” that’s peddled in the mystic’s booth? For all our sakes I hope not. I am not going to bother arguing with you or citing evidence or in any way proceeding with what has become a one sided discussion. I can only wish you peace and long life.

You take life too seriously dear, as well as this topic which started out as a light banter.....i do not judge those who believe evolutionary theory but like many other topics it is forcefed to the kids in our schools and the masses as fact without them being allowed to question it. Mostly because the educators do not have the answers nor the time or ability to nurture free thinking in the truest sense of the words to allow them to make up their own minds......
Do i believe evolutionary theory?..no.... does raise interesting points....yes!
As for judging folks......not knowing me at all you judged me as being narrowminded and ignorant....sweeping statements from one who is apparently not open to accepting other peoples opinions and allowing them their freedom of speech.

[miriamswell]

You make me tired and sad. You are not going to change your mind, nor I mine and thus there is nothing left to be said. If you recall, I stated quite overtly that I would die defending the right of people to disagree. Isn't that the refrain that beats in the heart of every God-fearing American? Please know I have the utmost respect for whatever it is you must believe to get through the night.

If you find the subject at hand too serious, find us something full of wit or if that is too much to ask, somthing full of mirth, something frivolous and foolish, a joke, a song, a riddle or a rhyme; something light, something airy, something lacking any substance but full of style.... perhaps a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury and signifying nothing. I am done.
Adeiu,
~Mim:wavey:

[highpriestess53]

God fearing American???

hahahahahaha....I am English and God fearing doesn't come into it.....:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[miriamswell]

Hitler had eyes. Stalin had eyes. Pol Pot had eyes. Ossama bin Laudin has eyes, by all accounts. Are they and their work all part of God's wondrous plan?

We are not descended from monkeys, they belong to a differnt genus and are never coming down from the trees. There are no monkies with tails in the old world. Do the math. Our closest relatives in the primate family are chimpanzees and they go up and down trees whenever the whim takes them. They are also another branch on the familial tree. Gorrillas likewise share much DNA and have little to do with trees except to lean against them and eat them. Maybe God created Hitler the same day he created fire ants. I certainly don't know. Nor do the 6 million Jews, 10 million Russians and several million of your country men murdered in the Second World War. You are becoming smug and unpleasant and worst of all, boring. I really don't care what you believe or don't believe, think or don't think (the latter being my inclination, but then I promised myself I wouldn't get nasty). Just go away and leave me alone.

[Lori]

Wow.

I had enjoyed the beginning of this discussion very much. It has become not only NOT enjoyable, but rather sad. I'm sorry it has taken this ugly turn.

I suppose this is just more evidence of why the Chit chat forum had to be shut down. It seems that when we begin to stray from the topic of Fleetwood Mac and its members, we find out just how truly different we all are despite our musical connection.

It kind of reminds me of what happens sometimes when a group of co-workers gets together socially...they think that because they get along well at work and have fun together in that atmosphere, that it would surely be even more fun to be with those same people outside the drudgery of the work situation. More oftentimes than not, however, they find that in a social situation they have absolutely nothing to talk about with each other (except for maybe their work), because all they really have in common is the workplace.

On the other hand, we Ledgies seem to find in a lot of instances that although we have the love of FM in common, the WAY that love manifests itself in each of us individually can be very different indeed. One person's favorite FM/Stevie/Lindsey/Chris song may very well be another fan's LEAST favorite. But I guess that is the beauty of the diversity of us all.

Lori :wavey:

[BellaDonnaGypsy]

Originally posted by highpriestess53
It is unfortunate that some of the worlds religionists subscribe to Darwin's theories.....and in our schools it has been taught as fact for many many years...
Louise, I partially agree with this, although I have had the opposite experience. I was taught about religion... well, Christianity... from an early age at school. During that time, I don't think we were ever once told that religion is entirely based on theories and assumptions. I was never comfortable with having opinions shoved down my throat without any evidence to support them. However, we were told of many different theories surrounding our existence in biology class: Darwin's theory of evolution, the theory of creation, and even panspermia. This was one of my favorite topics throughout the entire two years I took the subject for GCSE, and I believe I wrote about all three theories in my final exam at some point (for which I got an A). I still don't know which theory I believe... I am constantly re-evaluating my own beliefs as I gain more knowledge. I am not really sure where I am going with this, but I do not think children should be told that religious or scientific theories, which are not proven, are fact at an age where they cannot differentiate it themselves, or cannot question it... I think if I had stood up and said, "But how do you know God exists?" in pre-school, they would have yelled at me to sit down and shut up. :rolleyes: I guess I'm lucky that my parents always encouraged me to form my own opinions.

I don't think anyone should be fighting over their beliefs either... yours are as important as the next person's. And without difference of opinion, we would have no mental diversity anyway... who would want a population of zombies?

Laura.

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

I'm with you on this Lori. Wow...how a thread can totally change direction!!

I don't know you Mim and you have every right to your opinion even if it is different to Louise's. But I do know Louise and she is definately not smug, unpleasant or boring. Let's all try to get along and not start another war on here or we might end up losing the Stevie board too.

A while back I mailed Marty asking if losing the Chit Chat board would save bandswidth. He said that if the chit chat board went the topics would spill out onto the other boards anyway. Looks like he was right.

But as Laura said let's not fight over our beliefes...the sebject always becomes heated and it is best avoided.

Pip

[highpriestess53]

worthy opponent miriamswell.....:nod:
I like a good debate but it got a little too nasty for my liking.....don't expect me not to retaliate when I am being attacked......

[miriamswell]

Sweetheart, I was not attacking you personally, just your belief system. Again, one of the most precious of our rights as human beings is to disagree. You and I are never going to agree about this subject and that's fine. But try to understand my position, I feel as passionately about the different theories of evolution as you feel about creation and I get terribly frustrated when people will not listen to different points of view. That is partly my fault because I was too lazy to share *my* knowledge and for that I ask your forgiveness. After several degrees in Psych/Anthropology I just start assuming that everyone shares the jargon, again my apologies.

Shall we just agree that we will never agree about this subject and find something we can agree upon? I think I like you Louise, and I would love to talk/write with you about another subject. Like where can a person found a decent vhs from the end of the "Rumours" tour when Stevie had that incredible wild mane of hair? And what is your favourite Stevie song for when you really need cheering up, for when you are bursting with joy and for when you are mad enought to throw shoes? :)
~Mim

[highpriestess53]

Originally posted by miriamswell
Sweetheart, I was not attacking you personally, just your belief system. Again, one of the most precious of our rights as human beings is to disagree. You and I are never going to agree about this subject and that's fine. But try to understand my position, I feel as passionately about the different theories of evolution as you feel about creation and I get terribly frustrated when people will not listen to different points of view. That is partly my fault because I was too lazy to share *my* knowledge and for that I ask your forgiveness. After several degrees in Psych/Anthropology I just start assuming that everyone shares the jargon, again my apologies.

Shall we just agree that we will never agree about this subject and find something we can agree upon? I think I like you Louise, and I would love to talk/write with you about another subject. Like where can a person found a decent vhs from the end of the "Rumours" tour when Stevie had that incredible wild mane of hair? And what is your favourite Stevie song for when you really need cheering up, for when you are bursting with joy and for when you are mad enought to throw shoes? :)
~Mim

I agree that the subject matter needs to be left alone.....LOL!!
Hey Mim......apologies? Not necessary.....as one should never apologise for ones beliefs.

As for the other subjects mentioned, I'll start with.....When I am getting a tad hot under the collar Standback does it for me every time.......played incredibly loud is for me the only way to listen to this 'driving force of a song'.....it is not necessarily the lyrical content but there is something about the way that this song grabs your soul.....the rhytms....

Many years ago......Standback was THE song that I would drive to when I was mad......I used to live in a place called Husborne Crawley a tiny village next to the Duke of Bedford Estate in Bedfordshire England...this Estate has a wall which runs all the way around it.
Part of it runs parallel with a road that takes you towards a Market town called Leighton Buzzard....at the right speed, too fast for anyones good Standback could just about be played twice before you hit the crossroads to turn around to come back.......and do it all again....LOL!!

Well this is a start.....:laugh:

[Lori]

Yay! I feel so much better.

Not that anyone cares, mind you. ;)

Conflict makes me SO uncomfortable. I guess I have issues. :D

I like it when people get along!

Lori :wavey:

[highpriestess53]

that you feel better.....about the whole issue...:wavey: :wavey:

[miriamswell]

with Louise!:nod: Speaking of which, woman, you sound like a menace on the road!;)

My favorite "mad" Stevie song is...."Stand Back." Or the GDW from the 1977 Tokoyo show. The wailing at the end is soooooo cathartic. "The Chain" at the beginning of the "Mirage" concert is pretty wild too. For being mad at a specific person "Stop Dragging etc." is pretty good too. I guess I just have a thing for wailing Stevie.
~Mim