Mike Campbell talks about FM in New interview

[bwboy]

Sorry, I can't bring it up here, but it's on Yahoo entertainment. Talks about possibly recording with FM, why they included Free Fallin', and most interestingly, why FM didn't take his suggestion to ask Steve Winwood to join :shocked:

Hopefully someone else can find the link and post it.

[bombaysaffires]

Seems like he's starting his media blitz for his band's album.

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2020/nov/17/mike-campbell-interview-tom-petty-heartbreakers-dirty-knobs

Mike Campbell on life after Tom Petty: 'I think I found my own voice'
Jim Farber
The guitarist turned singer talks about his first album with band the Dirty Knobs and how he’s processing his grief for his late Heartbreakers bandmate
Tue 17 Nov 2020 08.06 GMT Last modified on Tue 17 Nov 2020 11.45 GMT

‘I will probably be grieving Tom for the rest of my life’ ... Mike Campbell

Heartbreakers’ guitarist Mike Campbell vividly remembers the first time his star bandmate Tom Petty heard a recording of him singing. “‘That’s weird,’ Tom said, ‘it kinda sounds like me,’” Campbell recalled. “It comes from the way I talk and the way he talked.”

It also comes from the place where they both grew up – the American south, a lineage evident in both the drawling cadence of their vocals and the defiant core of their character. While Campbell sang lead on only one song in the deep Heartbreakers’ catalogue – I Don’t Wanna Fight from their 1999 album Echoes – he’s now the front-and-center singer, writer and, naturally, lead guitarist, on every single song on the brand new album, titled Wreckless Abandon, by his own band, the Dirty Knobs. Fans will recognize the connection between the vocals of Campbell and Petty right away, though the band leader said: “I really made a conscious effort to try and filter out stuff that might sound like I’m mimicking my friend. I think I found my own voice. But some of it I can’t get rid of,” he admitted to the Guardian from his Los Angeles home.

There’s also an inescapable connection between the two artists in their songwriting styles. Campbell either wrote, or co-wrote, 36 songs in the Heartbreakers’ canon, including hits like Refugee, Here Comes My Girl, Runnin’ Down A Dream and You Got Lucky. For all of those songs, Campbell provided the bulk of the music while Petty fleshed out the melody and wrote the lyrics. More, he served as producer on some Heartbreakers recordings.

The Knobs’ album represents Campbell’s first full studio work since Petty’s death three years ago, which resulted from an accidental overdose of prescription opioids he was taking to deal with a long history of hip and knee pain. That shocking event brought one of America’s most popular, representative and long-running bands to a tragic close.

As rousing and rocking as the Heartbreakers’ music was, the Knobs churn out a more raw and dirty sound, bringing in some of the muddiness of Neil Young’s grunge. “It’s a four-piece – with no keyboards – so it’s a guitar band, essentially,” Campbell said. “All the takes on the record are live. The solos are live. I wanted to capture the four of us playing all at once to get a really big sound.”

One highlight of the music is the intimate relationship between the guitars of Campbell and co-lead player Jason Sinay. “He instinctively knew how to fit in with my sound,” the band leader said. “I had a great guitar dynamic with Tom. I would listen to what he was playing and try to support it or lift it up. If there was a solo, I usually played it because Tom was busy singing and playing rhythm. In the Dirty Knobs, Jason is in my old role. He listens to what I’m doing and he tries to fill it in the best he can.”

The two also share a similar philosophy about how a lead guitar functions in a song. The new album extends Campbell’s career-long focus on concise solos informed by an attention to melody. “If there’s a solo, it’s short and to the point,” he said. “And if there’s a fill that’s required between the voice, it serves the song.”

Boosting the band’s rapport is their long-aborning history. The roots of the Knobs snake all the way back to 2001, when Campbell first had the notion to start a side band to fill in the gaps between the Heartbreakers’ albums or tours. At first, it was hard to consider the Knobs a proper side project because it involved two other members of the Heartbreakers – drummer Steve Ferrone and bassist Ron Blair. While that version of the band played the odd club gig, it didn’t last long. “It became apparent to me that having two members of the Heartbreakers was probably not a wise choice,” the guitarist said. “‘That would be competing with myself and it would probably make Tom uncomfortable.”

So, a few years later, he formed a new Knobs featuring Sinay and a different rhythm section – drummer Matt Laug and bassist Lance Morrison. For over a decade, this unit casually wood-shopped songs Campbell wrote by playing the odd club gig, filling out their set with 60s covers. “It would be a real challenge to win the audience over without playing any hits,” Campbell said. “You’re not going to hear Free Fallin’ or Runnin’ Down a Dream. It was like going back to how I started out, playing for a small audience and enjoying it. There were no preconceptions.”

That laissez-faire arrangement continued for years. “There was never any ambition beyond, ‘Hey, do you wanna come over and play?’” Campbell said. “We were never going to try and make a record.”

All that changed when the Heartbreakers came to an abrupt end. After some emotional healing, Campbell intended to revive the Knobs but in the meantime an offer came from Fleetwood Mac to join their world tour as a replacement for Lindsay Buckingham. Campbell had already enjoyed a long history with Mac member Stevie Nicks, having co-written her massive hit Stop Draggin’ My Heart Around, as well as other songs on her solos albums over the years. Still, the situation with Mac seemed potentially awkward, considering Buckingham had been thrown out of the band just before the tour. “I’ve always respected Lindsay Buckingham and I took it on as a challenge to do justice to the songs the best I could,” Campbell said. “I’m not Lindsay and he’s not me, but I learned the best I could to support the songs as they were on the record. It was out of my comfort zone because I’m used to playing my own guitar parts. [But] I really enjoyed it.”

In fact, he said, he’d work with Fleetwood Mac again, if the opportunity arose. After all, he’s used to being “a team player”, as he calls it. For that very reason, Campbell said he never thought about doing more lead singing during his 40-plus years with the Heartbreakers. “I was in a band with Tom and he was so good,” he said. “And I really didn’t much confidence in my singing then.”

Even now, he said “I’m not a singer singer. It’s like something Roy Orbison once told me when the Traveling Wilburys were in the other room. He said, ‘I’m a singer. Those other guys [meaning Bob Dylan, Tom Petty and George Harrison] are stylists.’ I also think I’m more of a stylist than a singer.”

Even so, Campbell was able to bring deep emotion to his vocals in the most personal song on the Knobs’ album, I Still Love You. It’s the only lyric on the set that reflects his personal life. The rest, he says, were written in character or in the third person, like the single **** That Guy, which shoots a witty middle finger to the selfish pig of your choice. By contrast the wrenching I Still Love You addresses issues “between me and my wife”, Campbell said. “We were going through a rough patch. I still get very emotional every time I play it because I remember how I felt going through that.”

Things worked out in his marriage but, Campbell acknowledges, the song’s lyrics now give him a chance to exorcise some of the pain he feels from the loss of his greatest musical ally. Since Petty’s passing, some observers have speculated that he pushed himself too far, covering up his physical pain with pills in order to fulfill his obligations to his fans and his larger team. Campbell dismissed that view. “Tom’s decision to tour, with the pain he was having, was because he wanted to play,” Campbell said. “I remember talking to him and saying, ‘Are you up to it?’ and he said, ‘I’m doing this tour if I have to sit in a chair. I’m not staying home.’ It’s like the sailor and the sea – you always want to be out there. I know he was struggling but he was also really happy. Even to the very last gig, I saw that look on his face that said, ‘There’s nowhere else in the world I’d rather be.”

In terms of processing his grief over the loss, Campbell said: “I don’t know what phase I’m in. I’m still grieving. I will probably be grieving Tom for the rest of my life. We were best friends. We were poor kids who had a dream to play music and maybe make a record someday, and all of those dreams came true for us, together. That’s huge.”

At the same time, he takes comfort in his belief that Petty “will always be around. People will never forget him,” Campbell said. “And I want to carry that torch in my music. I still have more dreams to dream.”

Wreckless Abandon will be released on 20 November

[SteveMacD]

Of course they wouldn’t get Steve Winwood.

How many post-Buckingham lineups can feature ex-members of Traffic?

That said, Winwood did stand in for Lindsey in 1996 when the Rumours crew went to the Kentucky Derby.

[bombaysaffires]

Sorry, I can't bring it up here, but it's on Yahoo entertainment. Talks about possibly recording with FM, why they included Free Fallin', and most interestingly, why FM didn't take his suggestion to ask Steve Winwood to join :shocked:

Hopefully someone else can find the link and post it.

Here:

Tom Petty guitarist Mike Campbell talks new(ish) band the Dirty Knobs, possible album with Fleetwood Mac and ‘cathartic’ reunion with Benmont Tench
Lyndsey Parker
Lyndsey Parker·Editor in Chief, Yahoo Music

When former Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers members Mike Campbell and Benmont Tench got together last month for an all-star live-stream celebrating what would have been Petty’s 70th birthday, it was their first joint performance in three years. Campbell, whose debut album with his (relatively) new band the Dirty Knobs, Wreckless Abandon, is out this week and features Tench on one track, admits that the experience — which actually took place at the old Heartbreakers headquarters — was “cathartic” and “tugged on the emotions.” But the affable guitarist, speaking from his home in the San Fernando Valley, tells Yahoo Entertainment, “It wasn't hard per se, because, you know, I'm a professional. I do my job.”

Still, he adds: “I certainly felt it, because we were in the clubhouse where we all used to play as well, and I hadn't played in a while. But Ben and I are just instantly connected musically. We just play together a certain way. We always have just had an intuitive way of playing together that works. And so, that was nice to feel that again. But yeah, there were moments where it was a little tugging on the heartstrings, a little here and there. But that's what makes it real.”

Understandably, Campbell says, “After Tom died, I couldn't picture emotionally the Heartbreakers continuing.” But he stresses that he never once considered retiring from music. (“I never thought that. I'll never retire. I might as well just slit my wrists.”) And the excited public reception to the rare Campbell/Tench reunion does prompt the question: Would he and his fellow Heartbreakers ever fully reunite for other occasional musical celebrations of Petty’s life and legacy? To that, he answers, “Well, there’s a little bit of conversation here and there, but any time it comes up, it's always like, ‘I'm not ready.’ You know, I just can't. I can't emotionally handle getting all the Heartbreakers in a room without Tom there. I just don't think I can. It doesn't make any sense to me, really, even as a tribute. It's just like, he's not here. I would rather let the recordings and the live stuff we've done be a tribute to what we were. I don't know, maybe in time; I'm not completely closed-minded to it. I love the guys in the Heartbreakers, and I miss them terribly. But I think I need more time to even answer that question realistically.”

Campbell has worked on two recent Petty retrospectives, 2018’s An American Treasure boxed set and this year’s Wildflowers and All the Rest deluxe reissue, since Petty’s October 2017 death; he says the next Petty project he’d like to “dig into” is a live album from the Heartbreakers’ 20-night residency at San Francisco’s Fillmore in 1997, which featured nightly rotating setlists and surprise guests like Bo Diddley, Roger McGuinn, and John Lee Hooker. But for now, Campbell’s focus is on the Dirty Knobs, which he actually formed with guitarist Jason Sinay, bassist Lance Morrison, and drummer Matt Laug 15 years ago, as “just friends getting together to play for fun.” Campbell eventually “started to casually think about an album,” but his commitments to the Heartbreakers and, later, Fleetwood Mac put all that on hold. “The guys are very patient, obviously,” he chuckles. Now the Knobs are making up for lost time: Campbell has in fact already penned 11 new songs for a second album that he plans to have out by May 2021.

The irony, of course, is that the Dirty Knobs started out as a live project, gigging at clubs in between Heartbreakers dates, and now that they finally have an official studio album to promote, they’re unable to tour due to the COVID-19 pandemic. “Taking into account… my age, we don't have that much years to just give away. Unfortunately, this has happened, so we'll have to suck it up,” the 70-year-old Campbell says. “So, we lose a couple of years, probably, because of this, but things happen for a reason in terms of destiny and all of that. I could use these two years while I'm still young — or relatively young — but I'm still OK. I’ll pick it up when it's ready. I try to remain optimistic about it.”

So, Campbell has addressed the pandemic in the wryly comical Dirty Knobs music video “F*** That Guy,” in which the hated “guy” is the coronavirus itself. “We were thinking about the video, and it was like, OK, who is the ‘guy’? Who's the most evil force out there that you would say ‘f*** you’ to? And it came to me that it was COVID. So I said, ‘Let's have a guy with a COVID head,’” Campbell laughs. The fuzzy, coronavirus-headed villain in the “F*** That Guy” video is played by the drummer of rising L.A. garage-glam band Starcrawler — with whom Campbell jammed on “I Need to Know” for the Petty birthday live-stream special — and it was directed by Gilbert Trejo, the boyfriend of Starcrawler frontwoman Arrow De Wilde. “Starcrawler, actually, they're one of the only new bands that I've heard that I really of dig,” Campbell says, adding that he’d love to work with them in the future, “but I don't know why they'd want to work with me. I'm too old for them!” However, Campbell did work with Chris Stapleton (a huge fan, who participated in the Tom Petty tribute at the 2018 Grammy Awards), on both “F*** That Guy” and another Wreckless Abandon track, “Pistol Packin’ Mama.”

“I never knew Chris, and I didn't even know much about his music. I met him for two seconds backstage at Wrigley Field when he was opening for the Heartbreakers,” Campbell admits. “And then years later, when things changed, he gave me a call and said he was a big fan, and would I be open to writing songs? I don't normally do that, but I figured he seemed very likable, and I love his voice. So I said, ‘Sure, let's give it a shot.’ So he came out and we spent two or three days writing songs, and it was really enjoyable. And we did become friends, because we are cut from the same cloth musically. We got along really well and I actually enjoyed the process.” (Campbell has returned the favor by appearing on Stapleton’s just-released fourth album, Starting Over.)

As for other possible future Campbell collaborations, is it possible that now that he’s a full-fledged member of Fleetwood Mac — having, along with Split Enz/Crowded House’s Neil Finn, replaced Lindsey Buckingham in 2018 — the new Mac lineup might record new music? “I would love to do an album with them. In fact, when I first got the call, I thought we were going to do a record,” says Campbell. “And then I realized, ‘Oh, they've got some tour commitments. So that's going to take a year and a half.’ And at the end of that tour, we were all pretty tired — you know, we went around the world once or twice. So, we had a meeting and everybody said, ‘Let's take a couple of years off and relax and do other things, and see how we feel in a couple of years. And if everybody is engaged, come in and we're up for it.’ We'll reconvene and see what we can do. So, it's up in the air.”

Campbell reveals that even though he had a long history with Nicks — he co-wrote her Bella Donna Petty duet and one of her biggest solo hits, “Stop Draggin' My Heart Around,” and “she always wanted to be in the Heartbreakers, but you know, there were no girls in the Heartbreakers” — it was actually Mick Fleetwood who offered him the Mac job. “It was just an opportunity that came my way. It dropped in my lap. … It was on my birthday, actually,” Campbell recalls. “I was at home and Mick called me. I'd only met him once or twice before. He said, ‘Lindsey has left the band,’ and I said, ‘Oh, that's really sad, I know how you guys must feel.’ And then he goes, ‘I'd like you to think about joining the band.’ I was kind of shocked, really, but honored. I said, ‘Give me 24 hours to think about it,’ and I thought over the pros and cons and decided it would be a good thing. But Mick said, ‘This is not an audition. … If you want the gig, I'd like to give it to you.’ And I don't know if this is true or not, but he also said, ‘This is not coming from Stevie. This is coming from me.’”

Campbell reveals that Fleetwood Mac did “throw around some names around” before settling on Finn. Campbell suggested another Stevie for the job — Steve Winwood, that is — but was shut down immediately. “They just looked at me like, “Um, what did he say?’” Campbell chuckles. “Mick said, ‘I think that'll tip the scales a little too far.’ … I think they wanted somebody that wasn't already that strong of a voice that would maybe pull away from the Fleetwood Mac legacy too much.”

Fleetwood Mac didn’t play “Stop Draggin' My Heart Around” on that 2018-2019 tour, but Nicks did insist that they include “Free Fallin’” in the set as a tribute to Petty. Campbell confesses that he resisted that idea, because he was “tired of playing it. … I said, ‘Oh no, not that song again!’” (Incidentally, Campbell, who has co-writing or co-producing credit on some of Petty’s most iconic hits, cites “All or Nothing,” from 1991’s Into the Great Wide Open, as the most underrated Petty song.) “But we put together a little video, and honoring Tom was an emotional point of the night, every night. It was a nice send-off to him. Stevie was right, it really was a high point of the show — although it brought tears to my eyes, you know?”

As far as other tributes of sorts go, Campbell stresses that his work with the Dirty Knobs is “a lot different from the Heartbreakers,” but he does acknowledge that “in terms of carrying on the [Petty] legacy, I played guitar and produced and co-wrote a lot of the songs in the Heartbreakers, so some of those influences and some of that sound is going to come out.” And while he only ever sang lead on one Heartbreakers song, 1999’s “I Don’t Wanna Fight, he’s since become settled into the frontman role, and he’s looking forward to hopefully getting back out on the road with the Dirty Knobs, opening for Stapleton, in summer 2021.

“In the Heartbreakers, I just was able to stand back and play guitar and Tom did all the work! So, I have gained a new respect for Tom, realizing how much more there is to do when you're in front of a band,” says Campbell. “Singing is something that I would share with the Knobs over the years, being in front of the band and connecting with the audience. I've gotten really comfortable with that; it feels like second nature to me now. So, I'm not intimidated by it. I actually love it. It’s not a problem for me. I'm happy to be where I am.”

[Macfan4life]

No matter how many times I hear it or read it.........it irks me that Mick called Mike to ask him to join because Lindsey "left" the band. Its also ridiculous to pretend this was Mick's idea since he made the call. Mick was told to make the call the same way Mick was told to fire Lindsey.

He's just being the ultimate optimist. I don't think FM will ever record an album especially with him.

[BLY]

No matter how many times I hear it or read it.........it irks me that Mick called Mike to ask him to join because Lindsey "left" the band. Its also ridiculous to pretend this was Mick's idea since he made the call. Mick was told to make the call the same way Mick was told to fire Lindsey.

He's just being the ultimate optimist. I don't think FM will ever record an album especially with him.

I agree with both points. Mick was told to make the call to Mike Campbell and there is not going to be a Fleetwood Mac album with this lineup. I also had to laugh when Mike said “ We will wait a couple of years”

[UnwindedDreams]

In fact, he said, he’d work with Fleetwood Mac again, if the opportunity arose.

Neale, Taku, Ricky, Sharon and Marilyn would work with Fleetwood Mac again too if the opportunity arose.

That comment by Mike is what a contractor would say, not a member of a band.

[Macfan4life]

Its also funny and very revealing that Mike stated that he only had met Mick once or twice before and he could not remember exactly.
Both their careers lasted decades and they barely met and had no relationship.
Its so laughable that Mike would be the first person Mick called to replace Lindsey

Mick: Hello Mike, we may have never met or maybe we have but Lindsey left us and I want you to join Fleetwood Mac.

Mike: OMG, I will have to think about it and get back to you



(IF THE TRUTH CAME OUT)

Mick: Mike, I need you. Stevie said she wont tour with us with Lindsey in the band. So we had to fire him. I am almost broke again and need big money fast. I'm even leasing half my restaurant just to stay afloat. Stevie told me to call you to join the band. We can really have fun and much so much money together.

Mike: OMG, I will have to think about it and get back to you

Mick: Hurray up, we need to move on this so I can start pre-sale for my personal meet and greets. Get with Stevie, she will fill you in on everything.

[bwboy]

Thank you for posting the link and article, bombaysaffires.

[jbrownsjr]

Its also funny and very revealing that Mike stated that he only had met Mick once or twice before and he could not remember exactly.
Both their careers lasted decades and they barely met and had no relationship.
Its so laughable that Mike would be the first person Mick called to replace Lindsey

Mick: Hello Mike, we may have never met or maybe we have but Lindsey left us and I want you to join Fleetwood Mac.

Mike: OMG, I will have to think about it and get back to you



(IF THE TRUTH CAME OUT)

Mick: Mike, I need you. Stevie said she wont tour with us with Lindsey in the band. So we had to fire him. I am almost broke again and need big money fast. I'm even leasing half my restaurant just to stay afloat. Stevie told me to call you to join the band. We can really have fun and much so much money together.

Mike: OMG, I will have to think about it and get back to you

Mick: Hurray up, we need to move on this so I can start pre-sale for my personal meet and greets. Get with Stevie, she will fill you in on everything.

Haha!! This was hilarious. Can you imagine if Stevie and Mick were in a world where they were forced to be truthful!

[aleuzzi]

Haha!! This was hilarious. Can you imagine if Stevie and Mick were in a world where they were forced to be truthful!

Mick would be hamstrung into silence.

Steve already THINKS she’s being truthful. She believes her own lies. No self awareness whatsoever. Persian carpet or no Persian carpet.

[Villavic]

Campbell suggested another Stevie for the job — Steve Winwood, that is — but was shut down immediately. “They just looked at me like, “Um, what did he say?’” Campbell chuckles. “Mick said, ‘I think that'll tip the scales a little too far.’ … I think they wanted somebody that wasn't already that strong of a voice that would maybe pull away from the Fleetwood Mac legacy too much.”

ha haa... it was already pulled away from the legacy :mad:

[Nicks Fan]

Campbell suggested another Stevie for the job — Steve Winwood, that is — but was shut down immediately. “They just looked at me like, “Um, what did he say?’” Campbell chuckles. “Mick said, ‘I think that'll tip the scales a little too far.’ … I think they wanted somebody that wasn't already that strong of a voice that would maybe pull away from the Fleetwood Mac legacy too much.”

ha haa... it was already pulled away from the legacy :mad:

Truth. Steve Winwood has a better voice at his age than the current members of FM. Mick probably didn't want to upstage them.

[SteveMacD]

No matter how many times I hear it or read it.........it irks me that Mick called Mike to ask him to join because Lindsey "left" the band.
Does it really matter? It’s semantics, which this board painfully pisses over. Lindsey was out of the band. Mike would have joined regardless. He surely knew by Hawaii. He could have backed out and the band could have gotten Rick Vito or maybe gone for someone like Jeff Beck. Who gives a crap?

Its also ridiculous to pretend this was Mick's idea since he made the call. Mick was told to make the call the same way Mick was told to fire Lindsey.
I could see it being Mick’s idea, I could see it being Irving’s idea, and I could see it being Stevie’s idea. Again, who cares? After the decision to was made to fire Lindsey, Mike Campbell was the obvious choice. Lindsey was fired and Stevie was obviously distraught over Tom’s death, so who to get to be the new guitarist? C’mon, it’s not rocket science. Total no-brainer. He has a significant history with the band’s biggest star, was a member of one of the most beloved bands ever, and was unexpectedly available.

Its also funny and very revealing that Mike stated that he only had met Mick once or twice before and he could not remember exactly.
Why is that hard to believe? Sure, they knew a lot of the same people, but their professional paths never crossed, unless you count “Freedom,” which is kind of a stretch. As for not remembering the exact number of times, face it, it’s not like sobriety was ever a priority with those guys and they meet lots of people whenever they’re out in the world. Part of the territory of being a rock star. Again, pissing over semantics. He got the point across that he didn’t personally know Mick.

[David]

Does it really matter? It’s semantics, which this board painfully pisses over.
No, it really doesn’t matter, especially four or five years down the line.

Personally, I am willing to think that Mick reached out to Campbell on his own initiative without Stevie specifically prompting either of them. But I think that the reason Mick did reach out to Campbell was specifically to warm the cockles of Stevie’s heart. Mick knew he had a bad situation (with “psychic jiu-jitsu”) with his superstar draw, so he did it to please her — whether or not she requested it. He probably figured, what better way to fill her with the positive spirit for a drastic lineup change than to bring in an old pal who liked her. Whether or not Mick knew Campbell is irrelevant; he knew that Stevie knew Campbell, and so this was his idea to support Stevie first and foremost, not to launch the band in some lovely new direction.

[UnwindedDreams]

Does it really matter? ItÂ’s semantics, which this board painfully pisses over. Who gives a crap?


I could see it being MickÂ’s idea, I could see it being IrvingÂ’s idea, and I could see it being StevieÂ’s idea. Again, who cares?


Again, pissing over semantics.

With respect, this is a message board. So does anything on this message board really matter other than a serious discussion of a social issue in Chit Chat?

I think people come here to escape problems in their real life like illness, homelessness, adultery, etc. We're not in a college course so shouldn't people be able to have a free exchange of ideas without being met with belittling questions like "Who cares?"

What should the answer to "Who cares?" be: "You don't so I won't post like that anymore. Sorry!"?

[SteveMacD]

With respect, this is a message board. So does anything on this message board really matter other than a serious discussion of a social issue in Chit Chat?
No. And, I’ve been the one stating that it’s just a rock band. The amount of vitriol expressed about Lindsey’s firing is really out of proportion around here. It seems to trickle into every thread, even one completely unrelated (i.e. RIP Spencer Davis).

I think people come here to escape problems in their real life like illness, homelessness, adultery, etc.
So, putting MORE negativity out in the ether helps? How does being dramatic and negative about absolute minutiae help escape problems?

We're not in a college course so shouldn't people be able to have a free exchange of ideas without being met with belittling questions like "Who cares?"

What should the answer to "Who cares?" be: "You don't so I won't post like that anymore. Sorry!"?
Well, “who cares” is generally considered a rhetorical question, so there’s that.

In the context of this discussion, Lindsey was out of the band, they needed a guitarist, Mick called Mike, and they didn’t know each other prior to that call, aside from each having a working relationship with Stevie Nicks. Those are the basic facts that wouldn’t change regardless of how it was presented.

[elle]

So, putting MORE negativity out in the ether helps? How does being dramatic and negative about absolute minutiae help escape problems?


Well, “who cares” is generally considered a rhetorical question, so there’s that.


yes, because nothing screams positivity as much as telling people that nobody else cares about the issue they care / are upset about. it is so healing and not negative at all when someone tells them their opinions are unimportant, they are being overdramatic, and they should shut up and stop talking about them.

[bombaysaffires]

In the context of this discussion, Lindsey was out of the band, they needed a guitarist, Mick called Mike, and they didn’t know each other prior to that call, aside from each having a working relationship with Stevie Nicks. Those are the basic facts that wouldn’t change regardless of how it was presented.

I think most people on here are well aware of these facts; they are also aware of the interactions that happened behind those facts. An additional fact, the one that seems to be the greatest driver of much of the 'vitriol', is the band members opted to present a highly manipulated story about what led up to Lindsey's departure, seemingly based on the idea that their fan base was comprised of total idiots who would swallow whatever they were selling without any critical analysis as to whether the story made sense or not. Their fans aren't Taylor Swift fans or Harry Styles fans.... FM longtime fans are a bit older, a bit wiser, and have memories not clouded by long nets of white. So a lot of the anger comes from the insulting fact that this group of people in whom so many of us have invested large amounts of energy, emotion, and yes, cold hard cash that contributes to their ability to afford presidential suites and private jets, essentially looked us all in the face and lied, believing we were too dumb notice.

[HomerMcvie]

I think most people on here are well aware of these facts; they are also aware of the interactions that happened behind those facts. An additional fact, the one that seems to be the greatest driver of much of the 'vitriol', is the band members opted to present a highly manipulated story about what led up to Lindsey's departure, seemingly based on the idea that their fan base was comprised of total idiots who would swallow whatever they were selling without any critical analysis as to whether the story made sense or not. Their fans aren't Taylor Swift fans or Harry Styles fans.... FM longtime fans are a bit older, a bit wiser, and have memories not clouded by long nets of white. So a lot of the anger comes from the insulting fact that this group of people in whom so many of us have invested large amounts of energy, emotion, and yes, cold hard cash that contributes to their ability to afford presidential suites and private jets, essentially looked us all in the face and lied, believing we were too dumb notice.
Perfect. Just perfect! Bravo!

[mitzo]

No. And, I’ve been the one stating that it’s just a rock band. The amount of vitriol expressed about Lindsey’s firing is really out of proportion around here. It seems to trickle into every thread, even one completely unrelated (i.e. RIP Spencer Davis).


So, putting MORE negativity out in the ether helps? How does being dramatic and negative about absolute minutiae help escape problems?


Well, “who cares” is generally considered a rhetorical question, so there’s that.

In the context of this discussion, Lindsey was out of the band, they needed a guitarist, Mick called Mike, and they didn’t know each other prior to that call, aside from each having a working relationship with Stevie Nicks. Those are the basic facts that wouldn’t change regardless of how it was presented.
I love you. There, I said it.

[HomerMcvie]

I love you. There, I said it.

You two could open an I Hate Lindsey Buckingham shrine.

And sell two tickets.

[UnwindedDreams]

So, putting MORE negativity out in the ether helps? How does being dramatic and negative about absolute minutiae help escape problems? Are you a licensed counselor or therapist? How can you respectfully suggest that escapism is uniform?
Discussing Lindsey being fired is the same as people watching The Bachelor or "Real Housewives of New Jersey". They call their friends and discuss the show, they chat about how they can't believe The Bachelor met a lady in the Fantasy Suite or how they'll never forgive Teresa for what she did to Danielle.
The Ledge is the place for people to talk about their band or their artist. They shouldn't be bullied with condescending questions or a disrespectful prescription of Prozac.


Well, “who cares” is generally considered a rhetorical question, so there’s that. May you always have the last word. G-d bless you!

[SteveMacD]

Are you a licensed counselor or therapist?
Licensed Social Worker, thanks for asking.

How can you respectfully suggest that escapism is uniform?
You’re the one who brought it up, not me. I was simply giving my thoughts to your red herring.

They shouldn't be bullied with condescending questions or a disrespectful prescription of Prozac.
I wasn’t bullying and certainly didn’t recommend someone get on medications, (although I would suspect someone, not Macfan4life, needs a chill pill of some type).

It was a legitimate point.

[UnwindedDreams]

Licensed Social Worker, thanks for asking.


You’re the one who brought it up, not me. I was simply giving my thoughts to your red herring.


I wasn’t bullying and certainly didn’t recommend someone get on medications, (although I would suspect someone, not Macfan4life, needs a chill pill of some type).

It was a legitimate point.
You could be one of the most arrogant persons online. Total "better-than-thou" as if you were chosen on Mount Sinai.
I don't think Biden would be proud to have your vote.

I thought social workers were caring and open to people's thoughts; not destructive.

You posted a photo of Prozac not long ago in response to someone on The Ledge. That's really disrespectful and not something to joke about.

[SteveMacD]

You could be one of the most arrogant persons online. Total "better-than-thou" as if you were chosen on Mount Sinai.
I don't think Biden would be proud to have your vote.

I thought social workers were caring and open to people's thoughts; not destructive.

You posted a photo of Prozac not long ago in response to someone on The Ledge. That's really disrespectful and not something to joke about.

You’re obviously working through your own personal issues through this board, which is not our responsibility. My profession and political leanings are hardly relevant to a Fleetwood Mac discussion board. This is a discussion board and I was critiquing the point, not the person.

[SteveMacD]

An additional fact, the one that seems to be the greatest driver of much of the 'vitriol', is the band members opted to present a highly manipulated story about what led up to Lindsey's departure,
I guess I’ve considered Stevie to be such an unreliable source of information for decades that I took what she said with a pound of salt, as I always do. I guess I assumed most people around here were of the same mindset. However, Mick’s accounting of what happened isn’t drastically different from what Brett said.

The story they presented seemed to have been a filtered (i.e. by legal) version of what really happened, because they knew they were going to get sued (because what classic rock band ever fired a guy without getting sued??). I only fault them for saying anything in the first place, but Fleetwood Mac is gonna Fleetwood Mac. They’re not the band that would simply say “it was an internal decision and we don’t discuss internal matters,” are they?

So a lot of the anger comes from the insulting fact that this group of people in whom so many of us have invested large amounts of energy, emotion, and yes, cold hard cash that contributes to their ability to afford presidential suites and private jets, essentially looked us all in the face and lied, believing we were too dumb notice.

Funny, I just bought their music because I liked their music. I certainly don’t feel owed an explanation. Fleetwood Mac was always the biggest sh*tshow in rock. You weren’t seriously expecting a neat and tidy happy ending?

[bombaysaffires]

Hey, you're entitled to buy or not buy a band's music for whatever reasons you like.

You're also entitled to believe/not believe or care/not care what they say or do offstage.

You're further entitled to think others who have differing opinions to you are silly, whiners, or whatever.

And you are absolutely entitled to bugger off if you find the commentary on a chat board to be not of your approved flavor.

What you aren't entitled to is to expect other posters to stop posting comments because you don't like them. And if you've got bigger, better fish to fry, by all means, go fry 'em.

[HomerMcvie]

Hey, you're entitled to buy or not buy a band's music for whatever reasons you like.

You're also entitled to believe/not believe or care/not care what they say or do offstage.

You're further entitled to think others who have differing opinions to you are silly, whiners, or whatever.

And you are absolutely entitled to bugger off if you find the commentary on a chat board to be not of your approved flavor.

What you aren't entitled to is to expect other posters to stop posting comments because you don't like them. And if you've got bigger, better fish to fry, by all means, go fry 'em.
Thank you.


THANK YOU. :xoxo:

[mitzo]

Hey, you're entitled to buy or not buy a band's music for whatever reasons you like.

You're also entitled to believe/not believe or care/not care what they say or do offstage.

You're further entitled to think others who have differing opinions to you are silly, whiners, or whatever.

And you are absolutely entitled to bugger off if you find the commentary on a chat board to be not of your approved flavor.

What you aren't entitled to is to expect other posters to stop posting comments because you don't like them. And if you've got bigger, better fish to fry, by all means, go fry 'em.

And you are entitled to call out stuff that is wrong, obsessive, abusive, toxic, or unhinged.

[HomerMcvie]

And you are entitled to call out stuff that is wrong, obsessive, abusive, toxic, or unhinged.

Oh, just go back to your Lindsey dart board.
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[UnwindedDreams]

Oh, just go back to your Lindsey dart board.
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Yea. "The mitzo" who says Lindsey has no fans. Yet there were people from South America and Asia on the stream last night.

[HomerMcvie]

Yea. "The mitzo" who says Lindsey has no fans. Yet there were people from South America and Asia on the stream last night.

$tevie drones push numbers.

That's their thing.

That's all they've got.

[UnwindedDreams]

That's all they've got.
And that's all they want... Plus Neil Finn, Elsa Lanchester and Boris Karloff!

[mitzo]

Yea. "The mitzo" who says Lindsey has no fans. Yet there were people from South America and Asia on the stream last night.

$15, LOL.:lol:

[UnwindedDreams]

$15, LOL.:lol:

Wow, that's foul. Do you even realize that $15 is a hardship for people now?

[HomerMcvie]

Wow, that's foul. Do you even realize that $15 is a hardship for people now?

He/ she doesn't care.

BTW, you know that $tevie is THE MOST POPULAR MEMBER.... YOU KNOW THAT, RIGHT? I'm sure her tickets would have been at least $100. Probably double or triple that!

$tevie is the MOST POPULAR!!!!! DO YOU HEAR ME?

[UnwindedDreams]

He/ she doesn't care.

BTW, you know that $tevie is THE MOST POPULAR MEMBER.... YOU KNOW THAT, RIGHT? I'm sure her tickets would have been at least $100. Probably double or triple that!

$tevie is the MOST POPULAR!!!!! DO YOU HEAR ME?
:thumbsup:

And the iconic Chris Isaak, Vanessa Carlton, and Leann Rimes could have charged $40 more than Lindsey and their streams would have crashed way sooner!!!

So Lindsey, step it up:laugh:

[SteveMacD]

BTW, you know that $tevie is THE MOST POPULAR MEMBER.... YOU KNOW THAT, RIGHT? I'm sure her tickets would have been at least $100. Probably double or triple that!
LOL, GbV charged $25, which also went to charity when they did a streaming show earlier this year. Of course, they had the foresight to film the show first and then stream it through a service.

$tevie is the MOST POPULAR!!!!! DO YOU HEAR ME?
Well, I mean, in the past month, one of them released a live set with deep cuts that was filmed in arenas, shown in theaters, and is being shown on PBS while the other Zoomed a short, predictable set with karaoke backing tracks from his living room and experienced technical difficulties. But that’s the price for art, right?

[elle]

LOL, GbV charged $25, which also went to charity when they did a streaming show earlier this year. Of course, they had the foresight to film the show first and then stream it through a service.


Well, I mean, in the past month, one of them released a live set with deep cuts that was filmed in arenas, shown in theaters, and is being shown on PBS while the other Zoomed a short, predictable set with karaoke backing tracks from his living room and experienced technical difficulties. But that’s the price for art, right?

Right. Why bother doing show actually live when you can prerecord it right? Well if that’s your preference you can watch yesterday’s live show prerecorded today. Sounds like you are confused about whether you want karaoke or not 😂. Clearly you always want opposite from what Lindsey is doing! 😆

So you are saying instead of recording and touring new album LB should have recorded a BuckVie tour and Anthology tour, both with tons of rarities and new songs, screen them in theaters and put them on tv, then process to sell online? While I wouldn’t mind having those live shows, he already did that in the past. It’s regurgitation or stuff already done few years ago.

[SteveMacD]

Right. Why bother doing show actually live when you can prerecord it right? Well if that’s your preference you can watch yesterday’s live show prerecorded today.
If you can explain the practical difference, I’d love to know. Either way, it’s a 100% live show that people pay to stream and is shown at a specific time. Would it have been different in any meaningful way to most people? Would it have changed anyone’s perception of Lindsey as an artist? It certainly would have been better than watching Lindsey brooding or fans being upset because of technical difficulties.

Sounds like you are confused about whether you want karaoke or not.
Do you even know what karaoke is?

Clearly you always want opposite from what Lindsey is doing!
No, I want him to actually be what he purports to be, you know, like Richard Thompson. Lindsey talks about pushing artistic boundaries and then does a setlist like that. I mean, what better opportunity to debut a new song off his forthcoming album? He has six solo albums, seven Fleetwood Mac albums, and songs from soundtracks, surely there’s a deeper cut than “Stephanie”. (BTW, while I realize he did that on OMS, it’s still weird that Stevie recently released a live version of “Crying In The Night” and he opted to do “Stephanie.”)

[elle]

If you can explain the practical difference, I’d love to know. Either way, it’s a 100% live show that people pay to stream and is shown at a specific time. Would it have been different in any meaningful way to most people? Would it have changed anyone’s perception of Lindsey as an artist?

do you even know what "live" means?

show is either live or pre-recorded. (and you could get both with Lindsey yesterday.) when it's live it is raw and you get glitches and warts. you get the reaction in the moment. you know, stuff that people usually complain about with LB - that he's a perfectionist and control freak. apparently not anymore - not nearly as much as some others. :nod::cool:

I mean, what better opportunity to debut a new song off his forthcoming album? He has six solo albums, seven Fleetwood Mac albums, and songs from soundtracks, surely there’s a deeper cut than “Stephanie”.
haha changing topics i see. you know that i've been complaining about this on social media all day. but that' a different topic that belongs in LB forum where we're been discussing it.

[elle]

** also, why even discuss Lindsey solo stuff in the 2018-19 band forum?

#rhetoricalquestion

[UnwindedDreams]

Do you even know what karaoke is?


(BTW, while I realize he did that on OMS, it’s still weird that Stevie recently released a live version of “Crying In The Night” and he opted to do “Stephanie.”)
The use of "even" highlights the animus!

Weird would be appopriate to use, if it's also weird that Stevie talks about Lindsey in majority of recent interviews.

[SteveMacD]

do you even know what "live" means?

show is either live or pre-recorded. (and you could get both with Lindsey yesterday.) when it's live it is raw and you get glitches and warts. you get the reaction in the moment. you know, stuff that people usually complain about with LB - that he's a perfectionist and control freak. apparently not anymore - not nearly as much as some others. :nod::cool:
Again, though, the difference between a show recorded live in the living room and streamed a few hours later and something streamed live in the moment isn’t that big of a difference, one most people wouldn’t notice or care about. It was good for hype, but that’s about it.

haha changing topics i see.
You’re the one who went to “So you are saying instead of recording and touring new album LB...” which was completely irrelevant to anything in conversation.

you know that i've been complaining about this on social media all day. but that' a different topic that belongs in LB forum where we're been discussing it.
I don’t follow you on social media, however, it’s funny that you defend him not having “recorded a BuckVie tour and Anthology tour, both with tons of rarities and new songs, screen them in theaters and put them on tv, then process to sell online” because that would have been a “regurgitation or stuff already done few years ago“ when he’s done all of these songs on his tours from 2011-18.

[elle]

I don’t follow you on social media, however, it’s funny that you defend him not having “recorded a BuckVie tour and Anthology tour, both with tons of rarities and new songs, screen them in theaters and put them on tv, then process to sell online” because that would have been a “regurgitation or stuff already done few years ago“ .

i don't defend that -i just drew a parallel to your talking about another FM member recording and releasing their old show from 3 years ago which you brought up and defended as somehow superior thing to an actual live show or new music. :shrug:

sure i would have loved to have proper live recordings of BuckVie and solo anthology shows. they were amazing, with tons of new and previously never performed songs and you know that well. but i would never "defend" that as somehow forward and creative and great thing to do. and they should be actually live, not overdubbed. :)

[SteveMacD]

i don't defend that -i just drew a parallel to your talking about another FM member recording and releasing their old show from 3 years ago which you brought up and defended as somehow superior thing to an actual live show or new music. :shrug:
I wasn’t defending anything, just slapping back a little. Stevie has a well planned and executed solo career and Lindsey doesn’t, and this probably best exemplifies that. What better way to show where they’re at in their respective careers? Both did Buckingham Nicks and Fleetwood Mac songs, but were a world apart.

and they should be actually live, not overdubbed. :)
I agree, although with all the prerecords, does it especially matter?

[michelej1]

If you can explain the practical difference, I’d love to know. Either way, it’s a 100% live show that people pay to stream and is shown at a specific time. Would it have been different in any meaningful way to most people? Would it have changed anyone’s perception of Lindsey as an artist? It certainly would have been better than watching Lindsey brooding or fans being upset because of technical difficulties.




Lindsey wasn’t brooding, unless you count 3 seconds of time mentioning the glitch as brooding.

If you do, If you consider that brooding, I would be very interested as to how you would describe Heathcliff.

[jbrownsjr]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTKYvapgMDs

This warms my heart in very Warm Ways. I wish we had BuckVie DVD with extras.

[elle]

I wasn’t defending anything, just slapping back a little. Stevie has a well planned and executed solo career and Lindsey doesn’t

Oh definitely, Lindsey doesn’t have a business bone in his body. He’s a musician first and foremost. Art and business don’t always or even often go together in the same person. Would someone with a business sense and goals do all the work on other peoples songs or co-produce some of the buggest albums ever and never ask for co- writing or co/ producing credit? Stevie changed a single word in someone else’s song and took full co-writing credit. He lost tons of money and credit by not having his name on co- writes he did or not being credited as co- producer on albums like Rumours.

They have different goals in life - she was clear from early on she wants to be a star. She achieved that and is now a self-centered star who has been carefully grooming her persona. He wanted to be a musician and he’s been very clear that he fully understands how lucky he was to be able to make such great living of doing what he loves.

Definitely very different people with different goals in life, who happen to be in a toxic personal relationship and messed up business relationship over the years.

[elle]

Lindsey wasn’t brooding, unless you count 3 seconds of time mentioning the glitch as brooding.

If you do, If you consider that brooding, I would be very interested as to how you would describe Heathcliff.

lol yeah I had to laugh how someone posted that pic of him sitting and waiting with a caption that he must be so pi**ed and now everyone is going - oh look how pi**ed he was! ��

Frankly, I was happy to see that pic since we then all knew that theiy are aware on his end that the stream got interrupted so they will fix it and continue on.

[elle]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTKYvapgMDs

This warms my heart in very Warm Ways. I wish we had BuckVie DVD with extras.

Yup, would have been great! It was such a warm fun rocking tour!

[jbrownsjr]

Yup, would have been great! It was such a warm fun rocking tour!

She sounds amazing on this one.

[FuzzyPlum]

No, I want him to actually be what he purports to be, you know, like Richard Thompson. Lindsey talks about pushing artistic boundaries and then does a setlist like that. I mean, what better opportunity to debut a new song off his forthcoming album? He has six solo albums, seven Fleetwood Mac albums, and songs from soundtracks, surely there’s a deeper cut than “Stephanie”. (BTW, while I realize he did that on OMS, it’s still weird that Stevie recently released a live version of “Crying In The Night” and he opted to do “Stephanie.”)


Dude, your adoration for Richard Thompson is getting a bit boring now...and kind of odd too. You sure you're on the right board?

...Richard Thompson blah blah blah...

[FuzzyPlum]

$15, LOL.:lol:

????
Wow, are you taking the p!ss at the fact he's charged $15?
The guy has done a live show for his fans and charged a tokenistic $15 sum.
I hardly think he's doing this show to make money.
Rather than laugh out loud, it should be well done, good on him!

[SteveMacD]

Dude, your adoration for Richard Thompson is getting a bit boring now...and kind of odd too. You sure you're on the right board?

...Richard Thompson blah blah blah...

At least he lives by the mantra he purports.

Oddly enough, I kept seeing him mentioned in the same breath as Lindsey in guitar rags, which is how I hooked on him. Once I saw what he was actually doing, Lindsey’s rhetoric about art and expanding boundaries seemed like a bunch of hot air.

[bombaysaffires]

Apples and oranges.

Stevie, who presents herself as a pre-eminent songwriter, produces a film of a series of shows on a tour in which she sings material that averages somewhere around 30 years old (with songs written within a range of the last 50-15 years). Sure, the packaging is new -- a new film that is distributed over a variety of platforms -- and *maybe* some of the chatter accompanying each song in the film is new (and maybe not so much) with the result that she is heralded as doing something new and innovative. In reality, while the merching may be new, the content is not. It is a re-packaging of the same old. However, her goal is and always has been unabashedly to make money. She likely is succeeding (I haven't seen sales figures or revenue figures for her film but figure plenty of fans are buying). An additional goal is to be seen as still relevant, and that includes releasing a new product to sell (and singing backup with younger artists) As per above, she indeed has a new product (film) but on closer inspection the content isn't new at all.

Lindsey is recovered from a near-fatal medical event, one that put him in the ICU and treatment of which damaged his vocal cords, potentially permanently. Having come out the other side of that, his goal is to let the world know by letting them see him performing live and unedited that he has fully recovered not just medically but also functionally, i.e. that he can still sing and play and perform for an audience as well as ever. He, like Stevie, would like to make money. He, like Stevie, has new product to put out. Unlike Stevie, his new product will be made of new content because, rather than *tell* people how prolific he is and making them take his word for it, he actually creates new content (in the form of a forthcoming new album). While he achieved his goal of showing the world that he is back and in fine form, his noted lack of acute business sense led him to not include any of that new content *now*, in his live stream. This was a real mistake and a reflection of his continuing lack of appreciation of how the market works. We know the album is done, why make us take your word for it, why not actually play something from it? :eek:

Comparing her large, year-plus-in-the-making, highly-produced and overdubbed glossy film to his at-home, direct-interaction-with-fans, off-the-cuff livestream is apples and oranges. Her primary goal was making bucks and reminding everyone how legendary a songwriter she *was*, his primary goal was to show the world he's alive and well and better than ever, and to whet fans' appetite for new material that will show what a great songwriter he *still is*. Which he should have done by playing one of those new songs NOW rather than making us take his word for it a la Stevie. This kind of misstep is where we see his lack of a "big machine" PR team behind him. Critique his PR savvy, sure, but don't conflate his goals with hers.

[mitzo]

Apples and oranges.

Stevie, who presents herself as a pre-eminent songwriter, produces a film of a series of shows on a tour in which she sings material that averages somewhere around 30 years old (with songs written within a range of the last 50-15 years). Sure, the packaging is new -- a new film that is distributed over a variety of platforms -- and *maybe* some of the chatter accompanying each song in the film is new (and maybe not so much) with the result that she is heralded as doing something new and innovative. In reality, while the merching may be new, the content is not. It is a re-packaging of the same old. However, her goal is and always has been unabashedly to make money. She likely is succeeding (I haven't seen sales figures or revenue figures for her film but figure plenty of fans are buying). An additional goal is to be seen as still relevant, and that includes releasing a new product to sell (and singing backup with younger artists) As per above, she indeed has a new product (film) but on closer inspection the content isn't new at all.

Lindsey is recovered from a near-fatal medical event, one that put him in the ICU and treatment of which damaged his vocal cords, potentially permanently. Having come out the other side of that, his goal is to let the world know by letting them see him performing live and unedited that he has fully recovered not just medically but also functionally, i.e. that he can still sing and play and perform for an audience as well as ever. He, like Stevie, would like to make money. He, like Stevie, has new product to put out. Unlike Stevie, his new product will be made of new content because, rather than *tell* people how prolific he is and making them take his word for it, he actually creates new content (in the form of a forthcoming new album). While he achieved his goal of showing the world that he is back and in fine form, his noted lack of acute business sense led him to not include any of that new content *now*, in his live stream. This was a real mistake and a reflection of his continuing lack of appreciation of how the market works. We know the album is done, why make us take your word for it, why not actually play something from it? :eek:

Comparing her large, year-plus-in-the-making, highly-produced and overdubbed glossy film to his at-home, direct-interaction-with-fans, off-the-cuff livestream is apples and oranges. Her primary goal was making bucks and reminding everyone how legendary a songwriter she *was*, his primary goal was to show the world he's alive and well and better than ever, and to whet fans' appetite for new material that will show what a great songwriter he *still is*. Which he should have done by playing one of those new songs NOW rather than making us take his word for it a la Stevie. This kind of misstep is where we see his lack of a "big machine" PR team behind him. Critique his PR savvy, sure, but don't conflate his goals with hers.

Doesn't his wife act as his business guide? She was sure in a foul-mouthed funk when he got fired and she lost the crack at some millions.

[elle]

Doesn't his wife act as his business guide? She was sure in a foul-mouthed funk when he got fired and she lost the crack at some millions.

wow. and there's that sad negativity again. assuming the worst about people. implying that his wife doesn't love him, and that she must be just a gold-digger with him for his money. this sadly seems to be news to you but when your loved one is in pain you stand by them and defend them just as she and their kids did.

how misogynistic of you.

[SteveMacD]

wow. and there's that sad negativity again. assuming the worst about people.

https://conceptnetblog.files.wordpress.com/2017/04/i-learned-it-by-watching-you1.png?w=300&h=216

[mitzo]

wow. and there's that sad negativity again. assuming the worst about people. implying that his wife doesn't love him, and that she must be just a gold-digger with him for his money. this sadly seems to be news to you but when your loved one is in pain you stand by them and defend them just as she and their kids did.

how misogynistic of you.

Yeah those kids just have been proud to see their Mom calling Mick a motherfu#@er on Instagram.

[bombaysaffires]

https://conceptnetblog.files.wordpress.com/2017/04/i-learned-it-by-watching-you1.png?w=300&h=216

awww... so you're saying you're not an adult with your own mind to decide how you want to behave? You're just a sheep who follows blindly what others do? Got it.

If you're smart enough to see that the behavior is wrong when others do it, you are smart enough not to emulate it.

Don't preach unless you're willing to be the change you want to see.

:laugh:

[SteveMacD]

awww... so you're saying you're not an adult with your own mind to decide how you want to behave? You're just a sheep who follows blindly what others do? Got it.

If you're smart enough to see that the behavior is wrong when others do it, you are smart enough not to emulate it.

Don't preach unless you're willing to be the change you want to see.

Aww…So you’re saying you can dish it out, but can’t take it?

ETA: Don’t expect other posters to stop posting comments because you don't like them.

[bombaysaffires]

Aww…So you’re saying you can dish it out, but can’t take it?

Nope. I can keep dishing it and I can keep taking it.

You're the one blaming your own behavior on the 'bad example' set by others.

Simply asking if you recognize it's bad behavior, why you choose to copy it? And if you knock others for doing it, you are also knocking yourself for doing the same thing.

Most people just jerk off in private.

ETA: I didn't ask anyone to stop posting. I asked them to stop b*tching about content they don't agree with.

[elle]

Yeah those kids just have been proud to see their Mom calling Mick a motherfu#@er on Instagram.

Their youngest is almost 17. Are you ever around teenagers? And, somehow I doubt they were all very prudish when discussing what band did to Lindsey at their home.

Or you think Micks kids of similar age as Lindsey’s youngest are hugely bothered by him going around proudly prancing on social media wearing a beanie saying the same wording on it?

Really don’t get why such hate and misogyny towards KB from SN fans who are not even shippers.

[SteveMacD]

Their youngest is almost 17. Are you ever around teenagers? And, somehow I doubt they were all very prudish when discussing what band did to Lindsey at their home.

I dunno. What song did she sing with Lindsey on guitar?

[michelej1]

Doesn't his wife act as his business guide? She was sure in a foul-mouthed funk when he got fired and she lost the crack at some millions.

His fans weren’t happy when the band he shaped for 40 years fired him either and, as far as I know none of his fans are sharing any of his millions. Many music journalists have also decried what happened. Surely they can’t all be sleeping with Lindsey.

Being in a foul-mouthed funk over his treatment, reflects a sense of ethics, justice, propriety, conscience, and morality more than greed.

[michelej1]

Their youngest is almost 17. Are you ever around teenagers? And, somehow I doubt they were all very prudish when discussing what band did to Lindsey at their home.

Or you think Micks kids of similar age as Lindsey’s youngest are hugely bothered by him going around proudly prancing on social media wearing a beanie saying the same wording on it?

Really don’t get why such hate and misogyny towards KB from SN fans who are not even shippers.

I bet they WERE proud. I was proud of her. I fell in love with her for the first time in 20 years. I thought, “that gal loves more than pears.”

[HomerMcvie]

His fans weren’t happy when the band he shaped for 40 years fired him either and, as far as I know none of his fans are sharing any of his millions. Many music journalists have also decried what happened. Surely they can’t all be sleeping with Lindsey.

Being in a foul-mouthed funk over his treatment, reflects a sense of ethics, justice, propriety, conscience, and morality more than greed.

Well, we know two people that were happy.

Oops, I forgot about Karen. Make that three.

[Feather Blade]

Getting back to the thread topic... I'd love to see what Mike, Christine, Stevie and Neil could put together. I wouldn't expect a full album at this stage of the game, but an EP seems entirely doable.

[jbrownsjr]

His fans weren’t happy when the band he shaped for 40 years fired him either and, as far as I know none of his fans are sharing any of his millions. Many music journalists have also decried what happened. Surely they can’t all be sleeping with Lindsey.

Being in a foul-mouthed funk over his treatment, reflects a sense of ethics, justice, propriety, conscience, and morality more than greed.

Beautifully stated. Words like ethics, justice and morality really hit home with me. You've renewed my sense of how dishonorable Stevie Nicks is as a person to engineer something completely self serving like this. It did not benefit the band, nor the musicians in it. Anger gives way to revulsion.

[Macfan4life]

Does it really matter? It’s semantics, which this board painfully pisses over. Lindsey was out of the band. Mike would have joined regardless. He surely knew by Hawaii. He could have backed out and the band could have gotten Rick Vito or maybe gone for someone like Jeff Beck. Who gives a crap?


I could see it being Mick’s idea, I could see it being Irving’s idea, and I could see it being Stevie’s idea. Again, who cares? After the decision to was made to fire Lindsey, Mike Campbell was the obvious choice. Lindsey was fired and Stevie was obviously distraught over Tom’s death, so who to get to be the new guitarist? C’mon, it’s not rocket science. Total no-brainer. He has a significant history with the band’s biggest star, was a member of one of the most beloved bands ever, and was unexpectedly available.


Why is that hard to believe? Sure, they knew a lot of the same people, but their professional paths never crossed, unless you count “Freedom,” which is kind of a stretch. As for not remembering the exact number of times, face it, it’s not like sobriety was ever a priority with those guys and they meet lots of people whenever they’re out in the world. Part of the territory of being a rock star. Again, pissing over semantics. He got the point across that he didn’t personally know Mick.
You quoted me yet completely changed what I said in your response.

I did NOT say it was HARD to believe Mick never met or barely Met Mike. I said it was revealing since they were not close or barely knew each other that Mick would ask him to join Fleetwood Mac.

The answer to your first question: YES it does matter. Why do you want to justify Mick's lie. Why are you rationalizing Stevie's behavior?
That was the entire reason for me posting about Mike's interview. He shares details that prove the ridiculousness of Mick. You brush it over "does it really matter."
YES it does. Why cant he just say the truth? Stevie controls the band of who is fired and who is hired.
Yet you quoted several lines of my posting rationalizing everything Mick said or did based on his lies.

[michelej1]

I dunno. What song did she sing with Lindsey on guitar?

That was not his youngest who sang. Also, the singer’s school choir was the performer. She was one of a group of kids who sang it. There is no reason to think she had any involvement in choosing the song. And she and her mother have both been supportive of Lindsey throughout this.

When she helped make his Cranberry juice video, she commented, “He’s back bitches” and in my imagination the statement was directed at specific people, not only the world at large.

[SteveMacD]

You quoted me yet completely changed what I said in your response.
I just quoted the points I had an issue with.

I did NOT say it was HARD to believe Mick never met or barely Met Mike. I said it was revealing since they were not close or barely knew each other that Mick would ask him to join Fleetwood Mac.
I don’t think that’s weird or revealing at all. In fact, thinking it’s weird or revealing ignores their history. If Mick wanted to put Buckingham Nicks in the band after hearing the guitar solo to “Frozen Love,” how is it weird or revealing that he’d want a legendary Hall of Fame guitarist who had a long history with Stevie, having been involved in some fashion on all her solo albums, and who even co-wrote a Fleetwood Mac song?!? Fleetwood Mac needed a world class guitarist, Tom Petty had just died...Pretty obvious.

The answer to your first question: YES it does matter. Why do you want to justify Mick's lie. Why are you rationalizing Stevie's behavior?
Justifying lies? Rationalizing behavior? At worst, Mick was being political. It’s just a band, Mick’s band at that, and it was easy to see this coming a mile away. If they didn’t want to work with him, so be it. Lindsey’s hardly the first guy to get sacked from a rock band. J. Geils got fired from the J. Geils Band.

I thought Lindsey was in trouble in June, 2017, with his Classic comments, so I guess I wasn’t especially shocked. I also saw trouble brewing when Mick and Stevie met in Italy and listened to what was obvious to me an intention to revisit earlier material, while Lindsey was talking up a new solo album.

The one fact both sides agree on is that the tour negotiations were brutal. Maybe they decided to fire him during the negotiations, maybe there was still lingering bitterness during MusiCares and something set it off, but it was obviously a miserable time for them (see the photo shoot). However, and this is the key point, I don’t think any of them went into negotiations with the intention of firing Lindsey. I don’t think there was a grand conspiracy. I think they simply got sick of dealing with it.

And, I don’t especially feel sorry for Lindsey. I get that it was awful for him, but in the grand scheme of life, he’s still a rock legend worth tens of millions, still able to make and play music for a solid fanbase, and has a happy family life. What exactly did he lose?

That was the entire reason for me posting about Mike's interview. He shares details that prove the ridiculousness of Mick. You brush it over "does it really matter."
The gist of the call was to convey to Mike that Lindsey was out of the band and that the job was his for the taking. Regardless of how it was phrased, Lindsey would still have been out of the band and Mike would still have taken the gig. Mike also says he’s still on board for whatever whenever (if ever) they get back together. Mike knows Stevie and Lindsey. I’m sure he wasn’t surprised at the breakdown (no pun intended).

[HomerMcvie]

Mick's band? Yeah right! The boss is the one who says $he's not the boss. Mick is a pathetic LOSER.

Ask Irving -on a polygraph- who is the boss.

[johnnystorms]

Where can i find the MC photoshoot? I just quoted the points I had an issue with.


I don’t think that’s weird or revealing at all. In fact, thinking it’s weird or revealing ignores their history. If Mick wanted to put Buckingham Nicks in the band after hearing the guitar solo to “Frozen Love,” how is it weird or revealing that he’d want a legendary Hall of Fame guitarist who had a long history with Stevie, having been involved in some fashion on all her solo albums, and who even co-wrote a Fleetwood Mac song?!? Fleetwood Mac needed a world class guitarist, Tom Petty had just died...Pretty obvious.


Justifying lies? Rationalizing behavior? At worst, Mick was being political. It’s just a band, Mick’s band at that, and it was easy to see this coming a mile away. If they didn’t want to work with him, so be it. Lindsey’s hardly the first guy to get sacked from a rock band. J. Geils got fired from the J. Geils Band.

I thought Lindsey was in trouble in June, 2017, with his Classic comments, so I guess I wasn’t especially shocked. I also saw trouble brewing when Mick and Stevie met in Italy and listened to what was obvious to me an intention to revisit earlier material, while Lindsey was talking up a new solo album.

The one fact both sides agree on is that the tour negotiations were brutal. Maybe they decided to fire him during the negotiations, maybe there was still lingering bitterness during MusiCares and something set it off, but it was obviously a miserable time for them (see the photo shoot). However, and this is the key point, I don’t think any of them went into negotiations with the intention of firing Lindsey. I don’t think there was a grand conspiracy. I think they simply got sick of dealing with it.

And, I don’t especially feel sorry for Lindsey. I get that it was awful for him, but in the grand scheme of life, he’s still a rock legend worth tens of millions, still able to make and play music for a solid fanbase, and has a happy family life. What exactly did he lose?


The gist of the call was to convey to Mike that Lindsey was out of the band and that the job was his for the taking. Regardless of how it was phrased, Lindsey would still have been out of the band and Mike would still have taken the gig. Mike also says he’s still on board for whatever whenever (if ever) they get back together. Mike knows Stevie and Lindsey. I’m sure he wasn’t surprised at the breakdown (no pun intended).

[UnwindedDreams]

What song did she sing with Lindsey on guitar?
Stevie's 2015 Dedication to Lindsey:
"Without Lindsey, this song could never have been played because I could only play it once. He took it and made it into the song that it is today."


He'd be justified to play it in his solo set.

[Macfan4life]

I just quoted the points I had an issue with.


I don’t think that’s weird or revealing at all. In fact, thinking it’s weird or revealing ignores their history. If Mick wanted to put Buckingham Nicks in the band after hearing the guitar solo to “Frozen Love,” how is it weird or revealing that he’d want a legendary Hall of Fame guitarist who had a long history with Stevie, having been involved in some fashion on all her solo albums, and who even co-wrote a Fleetwood Mac song?!? Fleetwood Mac needed a world class guitarist, Tom Petty had just died...Pretty obvious.


Justifying lies? Rationalizing behavior? At worst, Mick was being political. It’s just a band, Mick’s band at that, and it was easy to see this coming a mile away. If they didn’t want to work with him, so be it. Lindsey’s hardly the first guy to get sacked from a rock band. J. Geils got fired from the J. Geils Band.

I thought Lindsey was in trouble in June, 2017, with his Classic comments, so I guess I wasn’t especially shocked. I also saw trouble brewing when Mick and Stevie met in Italy and listened to what was obvious to me an intention to revisit earlier material, while Lindsey was talking up a new solo album.

The one fact both sides agree on is that the tour negotiations were brutal. Maybe they decided to fire him during the negotiations, maybe there was still lingering bitterness during MusiCares and something set it off, but it was obviously a miserable time for them (see the photo shoot). However, and this is the key point, I don’t think any of them went into negotiations with the intention of firing Lindsey. I don’t think there was a grand conspiracy. I think they simply got sick of dealing with it.

And, I don’t especially feel sorry for Lindsey. I get that it was awful for him, but in the grand scheme of life, he’s still a rock legend worth tens of millions, still able to make and play music for a solid fanbase, and has a happy family life. What exactly did he lose?


The gist of the call was to convey to Mike that Lindsey was out of the band and that the job was his for the taking. Regardless of how it was phrased, Lindsey would still have been out of the band and Mike would still have taken the gig. Mike also says he’s still on board for whatever whenever (if ever) they get back together. Mike knows Stevie and Lindsey. I’m sure he wasn’t surprised at the breakdown (no pun intended).
LOL Its like trying to nail jello to a wall.
You quoted me yet completely changed what I said and took counter point. You are free to express opinions like we all do. But usually when you quote someone, you don't change what they say and base your counterpoint off what you changed about the original post.

Again, your are missing my point. YES it is revealing and funny to hire a guitarist you don't know and may have met once or twice. Are you seriously saying Stevie had nothing to do with it? She never told Mick to call Mike? She put on a Petty tribute during the Mac show as a coincidence? It was all planned by Stevie. Mick made her happy so she would stay with the band and he could make millions. Its not politics as you say. It childish diva tantrums which in turn some turned a blind eye just to get paid big bucks. Yes of course people get fired from bands all the time. But only maybe Van Halen was there a more silly termination inside a legacy band. Their touring contract was signed years in advance yet can give no clear reason other than one member wanted him out. He danced behind Stevie? OMG :eek:
I am a bit worried you cant see this and make rationalizations. I don't think we really needed Mike's interview to prove this but I will say it again.......it was REVEALING.


Revealing: An adjective.
definition: making interesting or significant information known, especially about a person's attitude or character.

[BigAl84]

PLOT TWIST - according to the VIP question and answer session before Lindsey's live stream - Mick has already discussed working with him in the future.

[elle]

PLOT TWIST - according to the VIP question and answer session before Lindsey's live stream - Mick has already discussed working with him in the future.

Lol but but .... that cannot be. The whole band was clear they don’t like to work with him anymore! It wasn’t just his ex’s tantrum backed by big money producers forcing spineless band hand! Micks in charge of the band! Spiteful ex had nothing to do with it! �� ��


Seriously though, while I’m happy for Linds that he’s talking to his old band mates despite of what they did to him and how thick Muck was laying in bs against linds during backstabber tour promotion ........ I would absolutely HATE seeing Lindsey being sucked back into FM time wasting toxicity.

[UnwindedDreams]

Imagine if Mick, Lindsey, Mike, and Neil went to do something together without J, C, or S. Maybe Federico and Brett as 2nd keyboard
Neil and Lindsey have a friendship with Mitch Froom in common.

Mike and Tom love(d) Lindsey. LB was on two Heartbreakers albums and Tom even said Stevie's stuff is nice but it's when she and Lindsey get together that really excites me

[David]

Imagine if Mick, Lindsey, Mike, and Neil went to do something together without J, C, or S. Maybe Federico and Brett as 2nd keyboard
Neil and Lindsey have a friendship with Mitch Froom in common.

Mike and Tom love(d) Lindsey. LB was on two Heartbreakers albums and Tom even said Stevie's stuff is nice but it's when she and Lindsey get together that really excites me Interesting ideas. I think they ought to all do solo albums from now on: Campbell, Mick, Christine, Lindsey, Stevie, John, Hey Now Hey Now, Brett Tuggle, Peter Michael, Bobby Martin, Lori Perry, Barbara Nicks, I mean everybody. Just go solo and show us whatcha got.

[elle]

Imagine if Mick, Lindsey, Mike, and Neil went to do something together without J, C, or S. Maybe Federico and Brett as 2nd keyboard
Neil and Lindsey have a friendship with Mitch Froom in common.

Mike and Tom love(d) Lindsey. LB was on two Heartbreakers albums and Tom even said Stevie's stuff is nice but it's when she and Lindsey get together that really excites me

that was actually something that occurred to me too when i heard it - Mick doesn't mind creating new music and people like Linds and Neil are always for it. when Mick first befriended Neil i was thinking that may lead to Lindsey and Neil work together... instead Neil joined Lindsey-less band as a touring contractor. who knows, it may all still come around for them working together. as long as its not a part of time-wasting outfit that is FM with SN in it. :shrug:

[BigAl84]

Lol but but .... that cannot be. The whole band was clear they don’t like to work with him anymore! It wasn’t just his ex’s tantrum backed by big money producers forcing spineless band hand! Micks in charge of the band! Spiteful ex had nothing to do with it! �� ��


Seriously though, while I’m happy for Linds that he’s talking to his old band mates despite of what they did to him and how thick Muck was laying in bs against linds during backstabber tour promotion ........ I would absolutely HATE seeing Lindsey being sucked back into FM time wasting toxicity.

Oh I hope he never agrees to a Fleetwood Mac tour ever again.

[SteveMacD]

YES it is revealing and funny to hire a guitarist you don't know and may have met once or twice.
He was ready to hire Lindsey and Stevie after hearing the solo to “Frozen Love” and meeting Lindsey once. So, yeah, I can totally believe Mick would do something like that.

Are you seriously saying Stevie had nothing to do with it? She never told Mick to call Mike?
I already said that I could see that coming from Mick, Irving, or Stevie. They decided to fire Lindsey, Stevie was obviously distraught over Tom’s death (watch her MusiCares speech if you have any doubt about where her mindset was at the time), and Mick‘s been the driving force for keeping the band going for over 50 years. It was an obvious choice and I’d be surprised if the thought didn’t cross his mind.

She put on a Petty tribute during the Mac show as a coincidence?
For all we know, that was one of the points of contention during tour negotiations. Which, going back to an earlier point, if Stevie wanted to do a Petty tribute even when Lindsey was still in the band, wouldn’t that make Campbell an even more obvious choice?

It was all planned by Stevie. Mick made her happy so she would stay with the band and he could make millions. Its not politics as you say.
You see them as conspiring backstabbers and I see them, at least as far as Mick is concerned, as a band that reached its breaking point with the internal dysfunction between Stevie and Lindsey and had to go into survival mode. If what elle was told was true, that they polled promoters to see if they wanted Stevie or Lindsey, that tells me continuing with both wasn’t possible and that they went with what was best for business. If we’re being honest, they were talking about the 2018 tour back in 2015, before Lindsey ever mentioned a solo album. So, when Mick said Lindsey left, Lindsey was the one who deviated from a long agreed upon plan, regardless of the actual impact it would have had on the band.

For the record, I would have been just as happy if they had fired Stevie. I’m a fan of the Brits. So long as Mick, John, and Christine are there, I’ll be happy. Hell, I would have been just as happy if they had fired both of them and brought back Billy, Rick, and Bekka.


(Watch Team Lindsey make state fair jokes without a hint of irony.)

Mick IS political to an absolute fault. Have you read his interviews, lately? It’s gotten so bad that you almost need a Little Orphan Annie decoder ring to understand what the hell he’s talking about.

[HomerMcvie]

Oh I hope he never agrees to a Fleetwood Mac tour ever again.

I will lose all respect for him as an artist if he ever goes back.

Will he have to bow in front of $tevie, and say "yes ma'am"?

It would be f*cking ridiculous for him to go back with his tail between his legs. F*CK THAT.

[SteveMacD]

Imagine if Mick, Lindsey, Mike, and Neil went to do something together without J, C, or S. Maybe Federico and Brett as 2nd keyboard
Neil and Lindsey have a friendship with Mitch Froom in common.

Mike and Tom love(d) Lindsey. LB was on two Heartbreakers albums and Tom even said Stevie's stuff is nice but it's when she and Lindsey get together that really excites me

I like this, although I wouldn’t mind John and Christine also being involved. Federico is good, but John and Lindsey playing off each other is golden (Down on Rodeo, Smile At You). Christine works well with Lindsey and Neil, so I think she’d possibly be someone who could add even more cohesion. Basically, the current lineup, but swapping Stevie for Lindsey, which would be absolutely killer.

[SteveMacD]

Oh I hope he never agrees to a Fleetwood Mac tour ever again.

I will lose all respect for him as an artist if he ever goes back.

Will he have to bow in front of $tevie, and say "yes ma'am"?

It would be f*cking ridiculous for him to go back with his tail between his legs. F*CK THAT.

LOL! He’d totally go back if the opportunity ever presented itself. Wouldn’t think twice about it, wouldn’t hesitate.

One man’s pathetic embarrassment is another’s triumphant moment of healing.

[BigAl84]

LOL! He’d totally go back if the opportunity ever presented itself. Wouldn’t think twice about it, wouldn’t hesitate.

One man’s pathetic embarrassment is another’s triumphant moment of healing.

Not shocked by this comment, considering you've been kissing the a$$ of Stevie, Mick, and Mike Campbell for the past two years.

[elle]

I will lose all respect for him as an artist if he ever goes back.

Will he have to bow in front of $tevie, and say "yes ma'am"?

It would be f*cking ridiculous for him to go back with his tail between his legs. F*CK THAT.

Yup.

First, Stevie would have to hugely apologize to him which she will never do because she’s one of those who never admits that she did something wrong and always blames it on others.

And second - as long as stevie is in FM, it’s a time wasting money making machine. So I guess it depends how much Lindsey values his time and artistic legacy vs making tons of money. He can bs however much he wants that going back is about legacy of FM but that legacy has been long cemented. And a single event would do what he wants better than world tour.

As far as what went in in 2017, it seems pretty clear that Stevie was first working on Mick, and possibly went over his head very fast to IA or other management to say she’s out unless LB is out. So while Mick may have been put in front of the wall by SN and managers, he still could have said no. Contract they all signed is not a contract that SN and mgmt were pushing for. Which was pretty clear once when LB sued them.

Talking about IA, it’s been interesting and kinda funny following how much hate he and his son ( who is now managing Harry styles) are getting from Styles / 1D Stan social media.

Now while I first and foremost want him solo, and think Neils songs lately are boring, collaboration between Lindsey Neil and Christine with backing of Mick and John might be interesting, with maybe Froom producing. But should be done fast and not take years.

[UnwindedDreams]

^ In retrospect, the earliest sign Stevie had it with Lindsey was Feb 2017. She did The Last Word interview with RollingStone where she made it seem that Lindsey and Christine didn't wait for her to do an album "I've been on the road since September of '16 so I don't get their premise". You can't make sh*t like this up haha
When asked if she would do another album with FM, she said I don't think we'll do another album because no one will buy it. "What we do is do a ton of shows and make lots of money"

[elle]

^ In retrospect, the earliest sign Stevie had it with Lindsey was Feb 2017. She did The Last Word interview with RollingStone where she made it seem that Lindsey and Christine didn't wait for her to do an album "I've been on the road since September of '16 so I don't get their premise". You can't make sh*t like this up haha
When asked if she would do another album with FM, she said I don't think we'll do another album because no one will buy it. "What we do is do a ton of shows and make lots of money"

the earliest sign Stevie had it with Lindsey was as soon as Christine came back. and then the 4 started working on FM album and had a great time. and then they dared to actually release it. that was it. :nod:

[UnwindedDreams]

the earliest sign Stevie had it with Lindsey was as soon as Christine came back. and then the 4 started working on FM album and had a great time. and then they dared to actually release it. that was it. :nod:
Yea. As thrilled as she claimed to be with Christine returning to FM, she still called Dave Stewart to make a record when she knew back in 2013 that Christine was returning in 2014. She could've done her Vault songs in January/February if she had to get an album done.

An FM album that would've been released in 14 or 15 would've been top 5 in the US.

Henley's solo record was originally reported to go to number 1 in 2015 but there was a factor that prevented that and I remember him expressing his disgust with that. It did do top 5 though

[SteveMacD]

In 2013, Lindsey was going out of his way to be positive towards Stevie to convince her to do an album. Once Christine came back wanting to record, he seemed to have quit trying, maybe assuming Stevie would automatically want to do an album with the full lineup (I had that assumption). I think there was a perception that the balance of power had shifted towards Lindsey. It seemed like that from afar.

But then she got on the cover of Rolling Stone while they were trying to promote Christine’s return. In retrospect, I think that was the first sign of trouble on the horizon.

24KG still seems like a contractual obligation album.

Also, I don’t think she especially cared one way or the other about LBCM. However, when they got back together, the “Broadway show” aspect wasn’t there. Lindsey wasn’t playing along anymore.

[UnwindedDreams]

It could also be that Stevie would've made an album with the band if Christine had not come back.
After the 2013 tour, say Stevie does her thing in 14. Comes back to Mac to record in 15 and tour with Mac in 16.

I remember when she was doing Unleashed press she said just this one tour we're only doing songs you want to hear and the next time we tour we'll be playing a new album:laugh:

I mean the SYW through EP years must've meant something to her. Those Say Goodbye Vegas 2013 tears were coming down like rain!

[BigAl84]

My desire to see another Fleetwood Mac tour or album project of any kind has dwindled to nothing. Even if Stevie agreed, it would be maddening. Non stop 180 reversal and denial of everything that was said and done over the past two years. All in the name of projecting the image of a reunion and putting butts in seats. So gross.

The Buckingham Mcvie tour was awesome, I would show up for that again. If Lindsey does anything at all with any of them, I hope it’s sans Stevie. That ship has sailed.

My patience for her never ending bullsh*t has completely evaporated. The crap she spews is so predictable, it practically writes itself.

End of rant.

[goldustsongbird]

My desire to see another Fleetwood Mac tour or album project of any kind has dwindled to nothing. Even if Stevie agreed, it would be maddening. Non stop 180 reversal and denial of everything that was said and done over the past two years. All in the name of projecting the image of a reunion and putting butts in seats. So gross.

The Buckingham Mcvie tour was awesome, I would show up for that again. If Lindsey does anything at all with any of them, I hope it’s sans Stevie. That ship has sailed.

My patience for her never ending bullsh*t has completely evaporated. The crap she spews is so predictable, it practically writes itself.

End of rant.

I was happy to see FM in 2014. That'll be my one and only Mac show. I jumped at the chance because I'd waited so long for Chris to come back and really wanted to see her with them one last time. After that, I lost interest, and quite frankly, Stevie's voice ain't gettin' any better.

That was a fun night; I don't regret going. But if I spend my money on anyone in the future, it'll be Lindsey or BuckVie.

[HomerMcvie]

My desire to see another Fleetwood Mac tour or album project of any kind has dwindled to nothing. Even if Stevie agreed, it would be maddening. Non stop 180 reversal and denial of everything that was said and done over the past two years. All in the name of projecting the image of a reunion and putting butts in seats. So gross.

The Buckingham Mcvie tour was awesome, I would show up for that again. If Lindsey does anything at all with any of them, I hope it’s sans Stevie. That ship has sailed.

My patience for her never ending bullsh*t has completely evaporated. The crap she spews is so predictable, it practically writes itself.

End of rant.
Spot on. Every f*cking word.

It would be DISGUSTING if he went back. It's unbelievable that he wants to. What a pussy he is if he really does to go back to THAT. Makes me want to vomit if it's so. All the "integrity" he's stood for all these years is WHAT now? He's now $tevie's minion? It's f*cking disgusting.

I'm glad BuckVie was their final chapter for me. The perfect ending.

[Macfan4life]

Sadly I do believe Lindsey will be back. I said this from the beginning. I can certainly hear Mick talking how the band needs him and how the band has always weathered personal differences, etc. Then Stevie will say their time is short and she has no time to hold grudges. Then they will launch their farewell tour sponsored by Depends.

There is a bit of irony here how Lindsey desperately wanted out of their dysfunction to stay away from the band for 10 years. Clearly the big money keeps him around too. But now the band cut ties with him claiming he was the dysfunction and its Lindsey reaching out to go back to the band.

I will say that Fleetwood Mac treats their "new" members worse than any band in music history. They are disposable as diapers. Mick always claims its a new chapter and they are here to stay even to make new music. But when it comes to making huge money instead of just money, he throws them overboard. He's even into doing that to his legacy guitarist Lindsey Buckingham.

[elle]

My desire to see another Fleetwood Mac tour or album project of any kind has dwindled to nothing. Even if Stevie agreed, it would be maddening. Non stop 180 reversal and denial of everything that was said and done over the past two years. All in the name of projecting the image of a reunion and putting butts in seats. So gross.

The Buckingham Mcvie tour was awesome, I would show up for that again. If Lindsey does anything at all with any of them, I hope it’s sans Stevie. That ship has sailed.
.

yup to all of this!

[BigAl84]

I was happy to see FM in 2014. That'll be my one and only Mac show. I jumped at the chance because I'd waited so long for Chris to come back and really wanted to see her with them one last time. After that, I lost interest, and quite frankly, Stevie's voice ain't gettin' any better.

That was a fun night; I don't regret going. But if I spend my money on anyone in the future, it'll be Lindsey or BuckVie.

I saw 3 shows between 2014-2015 and they were all great, I was thrilled to be there at that time.

So much has changed since then, which is why I really don't have any appetite to see another Fleetwood Mac tour.

[jbrownsjr]

It was clear that Christine coming back caused a lot of emotions in $tevie. Then they made an album without her... AND they put that little lovely film of
BuckVie which was the complete contrast of SYW "making of".

If LB did come back, and it's unclear if there's time for that. $he would make it about herself. "I told Lindsey, 'look this is our last chance. We have to put this all behind us for the good of the band. I told him, this is what the fans want.'"

"And I know I'm not the boss of this band, but I was the first to call him. The rest of the band wanted it, too."

[FuzzyPlum]

Spot on. Every f*cking word.

It would be DISGUSTING if he went back. It's unbelievable that he wants to. What a pussy he is if he really does to go back to THAT. Makes me want to vomit if it's so. All the "integrity" he's stood for all these years is WHAT now? He's now $tevie's minion? It's f*cking disgusting.

I'm glad BuckVie was their final chapter for me. The perfect ending.

...but I'd love it if he ever went back to a Fleetwood Mac without Stevie. I'd hate that he'd patched it up with Mick (which seems to be the case), but it would p!ss Stevie off so much if they ever did finally give her the boot.
It's far fetched, but not beyond reason. If Mick realises Stevie isn't going to provide him with a buck for the next 3 years, it wouldn't be beyond him to seek one last, half decent payday with a band featuring Lindsey.

[BigAl84]

It was clear that Christine coming back caused a lot of emotions in $tevie. Then they made an album without her... AND they put that little lovely film of
BuckVie which was the complete contrast of SYW "making of".

If LB did come back, and it's unclear if there's time for that. $he would make it about herself. "I told Lindsey, 'look this is our last chance. We have to put this all behind us for the good of the band. I told him, this is what the fans want.'"

"And I know I'm not the boss of this band, but I was the first to call him. The rest of the band wanted it, too."

Yep and that's exactly the trite bullsh*t from her that has zapped all appetite to see any kind of a reunion.

It's been said ad nauseam, but when Stevie realized the shift in power with another voice in the band (Christine) everything went south.

[goldustsongbird]

Sadly I do believe Lindsey will be back. I said this from the beginning. I can certainly hear Mick talking how the band needs him and how the band has always weathered personal differences, etc. Then Stevie will say their time is short and she has no time to hold grudges. Then they will launch their farewell tour sponsored by Depends.

There is a bit of irony here how Lindsey desperately wanted out of their dysfunction to stay away from the band for 10 years. Clearly the big money keeps him around too. But now the band cut ties with him claiming he was the dysfunction and its Lindsey reaching out to go back to the band.

I will say that Fleetwood Mac treats their "new" members worse than any band in music history. They are disposable as diapers. Mick always claims its a new chapter and they are here to stay even to make new music. But when it comes to making huge money instead of just money, he throws them overboard. He's even into doing that to his legacy guitarist Lindsey Buckingham.

lol, this part belongs in the commercial thread.

I can see it going either way. Historically, they've always found their way back to each other, if not to complete forgiveness. With the way Stevie is talking now about performing, I could see her saying exactly that: We don't have very much time, we may never see each other again. (Whassamattabaybeh?)

At the same time, Stevie seems determined to never speak to him again; to never even acknowledge their history, which again, is a dramatic statement in and of itself.

The tide does seem to be turning with this. I think the idea of yet another grand reunion is probably appealing to them because they know it will garner attention and satisfy a lot of fans. Breaking up and getting back together has always been good business for FM.

But I still won't be shelling out for a ticket.

[HomerMcvie]

But I still won't be shelling out for a ticket.

Me either. The ONLY way I'd shell out is if $tevie was out of the band, AND Lindsey was back(again, with no stupid goat).

None of them can really sing any more anyway... they should just call it (another lonely) day.

[HomerMcvie]

...but I'd love it if he ever went back to a Fleetwood Mac without Stevie. I'd hate that he'd patched it up with Mick (which seems to be the case), but it would p!ss Stevie off so much if they ever did finally give her the boot.
It's far fetched, but not beyond reason. If Mick realises Stevie isn't going to provide him with a buck for the next 3 years, it wouldn't be beyond him to seek one last, half decent payday with a band featuring Lindsey.

I SERIOUSLY doubt that $tevie and Irving would allow that.

I mean, $he's not the boss. Yeah right...

[SteveMacD]

It's far fetched, but not beyond reason. If Mick realises Stevie isn't going to provide him with a buck for the next 3 years, it wouldn't be beyond him to seek one last, half decent payday with a band featuring Lindsey.
I think the closest thing we’d ever see to something like that would be Lindsey putting Mick in his solo band.

[UnwindedDreams]

I think the closest thing we’d ever see to something like that would be Lindsey putting Mick in his solo band.
Obvi. it didn't happen, but I swore before Buckingham McVie was released, Christine was speaking about Fleetwood Mac doing "smaller concerts" without Stevie to play the new material and then do a big tour with Stevie when she was ready.

I think this was in 2016. "Smaller concerts" is printed in my head.
Mick must have realized that he would've faces Stevie's wrath if he and John toured with LB and CM.

That article was probably scrubbed in the Great Nicksian Redaction Purge:laugh:

[SteveMacD]

Obvi. it didn't happen, but I swore before Buckingham McVie was released, Christine was speaking about Fleetwood Mac doing "smaller concerts" without Stevie to play the new material and then do a big tour with Stevie when she was ready.

I think this was in 2016. "Smaller concerts" is printed in my head.
Mick must have realized that he would've faces Stevie's wrath if he and John toured with LB and CM.

That article was probably scrubbed in the Great Nicksian Redaction Purge:laugh:

She said that, which added to the ridiculousness of the later “duet album” comments.

I don’t know if the decision came from Stevie or if it was simple common sense. It would have confused the brand and shown Fleetwood Mac as something other than an arena rock band. And, if you think Stevie had an ego before, just imagine how big her head would have gotten if her solo tour significantly outperformed a full-on Fleetwood Mac tour without her.

[UnwindedDreams]

It's really fascinating how honest Christine was at that time to actually state for the record that FM shows without Stevie could be a point to consider.
It seems at that time Mick and Chris were actually letting us know Stevie wasn't doing her part in their team.
I think Mick was saying "young Stevie" hasn't brought anything or Lindsey had to lay the groundwork for her to join them.
It's in the past but it is the history of this band.
And then we'll get a Rumours Anniversary show at The Coliseum in 2022 :p

[Macfan4life]

lol, this part belongs in the commercial thread.

I can see it going either way. Historically, they've always found their way back to each other, if not to complete forgiveness. With the way Stevie is talking now about performing, I could see her saying exactly that: We don't have very much time, we may never see each other again. (Whassamattabaybeh?)

At the same time, Stevie seems determined to never speak to him again; to never even acknowledge their history, which again, is a dramatic statement in and of itself.

The tide does seem to be turning with this. I think the idea of yet another grand reunion is probably appealing to them because they know it will garner attention and satisfy a lot of fans. Breaking up and getting back together has always been good business for FM.

But I still won't be shelling out for a ticket.
Money brings them back every time. Not long ago I was watching those long interviews during the Dance rehearsals. They all sort of gave generic answers why the band rejoined. We know Chris was not thrilled about it but went along so the group would reap the benefits. The Eagles just sold out arenas across the country and so did the Dance tour. Lindsey sort of bit his tongue and everyone saw big bucks. Each one of their solo careers including Stevie was in decline and even Stevie was not a big concert draw anymore. I saw the Dance tour in West Palm Beach in 1997. The Palm Beach Post brought up the point that they rented out an entire floor of the Breakers Hotel in Palm Beach yet the year prior Mick and his band stayed at some dirty Best Western along the interstate.
Money makes the world go around. Do you think anyone of them really need this drama? Money makes the world go around.

[goldustsongbird]

Me either. The ONLY way I'd shell out is if $tevie was out of the band, AND Lindsey was back(again, with no stupid goat).

None of them can really sing any more anyway... they should just call it (another lonely) day.

Lindsey can still sing pretty well. His voice sounds the same as it did pre-heart attack, at least from what I heard.

Money brings them back every time. Not long ago I was watching those long interviews during the Dance rehearsals. They all sort of gave generic answers why the band rejoined. We know Chris was not thrilled about it but went along so the group would reap the benefits. The Eagles just sold out arenas across the country and so did the Dance tour. Lindsey sort of bit his tongue and everyone saw big bucks. Each one of their solo careers including Stevie was in decline and even Stevie was not a big concert draw anymore. I saw the Dance tour in West Palm Beach in 1997. The Palm Beach Post brought up the point that they rented out an entire floor of the Breakers Hotel in Palm Beach yet the year prior Mick and his band stayed at some dirty Best Western along the interstate.
Money makes the world go around. Do you think anyone of them really need this drama? Money makes the world go around.

We share a youtube history here. I was watching some Dance stuff and thinking about how it was on that tour that their shows became tightly scripted and predictable, which gave the whole thing a more corporate air. Most live shows follow a format that becomes somewhat repetitive, but they really lost their spontaneity after 1982. Maybe the TITN/BTM/STC tours were looser; I don't know.

A lot of us thought Chris looked bored on The Dance tour, so your point about her kind of just going along with things is accurate. I think they genuinely enjoyed themselves on the '97 tour, and there was a lot of excitement around it that they fed off of, it was just really different.

[BigAl84]

Money brings them back every time. Not long ago I was watching those long interviews during the Dance rehearsals. They all sort of gave generic answers why the band rejoined. We know Chris was not thrilled about it but went along so the group would reap the benefits. The Eagles just sold out arenas across the country and so did the Dance tour. Lindsey sort of bit his tongue and everyone saw big bucks. Each one of their solo careers including Stevie was in decline and even Stevie was not a big concert draw anymore. I saw the Dance tour in West Palm Beach in 1997. The Palm Beach Post brought up the point that they rented out an entire floor of the Breakers Hotel in Palm Beach yet the year prior Mick and his band stayed at some dirty Best Western along the interstate.
Money makes the world go around. Do you think anyone of them really need this drama? Money makes the world go around.


Money makes the world go around for a good chunk of that band, that’s for sure. What I dont understand is why the heck any of them still have the sheer appetite for the money...enough to scorch the earth and create a falling out like they did in 2018. Maybe Mick needs the cash, but the rest of them are perfectly comfortable and donÂ’t need to do another single tour if they donÂ’t want to. The 2018 tour was so insignificant and unnecessary after they had just circled the globe in 2014/2015.

It’s also infuriating when Nicks agrees to do all these Fleetwood Mac tours at the time and then wines to the press after the fact about how miserable she was on those tours...but hey she’ll sign on the dotted line the next time the opportunity arises.

I have to hand it to Christine....as much as folks wanted her to have more backbone in regards to the 2018 fiasco...she at least doesn’t complain about what she signed up for.

[BLY]

....with the exception of Mick(several ex wife’s, young kids) it may not be about the money. It’s a job that keeps these older folks active because there is an audience that will still pay to see them. You think?

[UnwindedDreams]

The 2018 tour was so insignificant and unnecessary after they had just circled the globe in 2014/2015.

It’s also infuriating when Nicks agrees to do all these Fleetwood Mac tours at the time and then wines to the press after the fact about how miserable she was on those tours...but hey she’ll sign on the dotted line the next time the opportunity arises.


I think Stevie had a marketing strategy when there's an upcoming Mac tour and it's say something bad about the last tour so that people think they'll now be on their game and buy tickets to the current tour.
I think she said in 2013 that she and LB went through the motions in 2009 and they know better this time...LMFAO!

The 2018 tour was really about promoting Neil and Mike.
Oh Well, Tell Me, Black Magic are long musically but not lyrically so when Stevie sang BMW I didn't really count it as a song for her since Mike was really the star on that. Now if she did Beautiful Child it would've been legit.
But all the same Dreams, Rhi, Landslide, Gold, Gypsy. You really can't do No Questions Asked, Fireflies, or Crystal? Frig, why not Stand Back if you're doing Neil stuff?
Lindsey would have wanted new music for 2018 tour or songs from SYW or Tusk

[bombaysaffires]

....with the exception of Mick(several ex wife’s, young kids) it may not be about the money. It’s a job that keeps these older folks active because there is an audience that will still pay to see them. You think?

Stevie said in a recent interview that being active, working, doing things keeps you a young 72 not an old 72, and that she was finding sitting at home doing nothing was impacting her and that's why she's so resentful about it all.

Of course, being at home does NOT stop you from writing songs, or working on arrangements of songs you'd like to put on a next album... hell people have been putting songs/albums together remotely long before covid... sending computer files back and forth you add your part and send to me, I add my part/make changes and send back to you, etc... and of course you can facetime/zoom/whatever to see each other and talk. You can paint at home; you can write in your journals at home; you can have creative meetings with the team helping make a Rhiannon movie/show/whatever ....
so this bs about "can't do anything just sitting at home" is all in the eye of the beholder.

It seems more like when she says these are her last "youthful years" she's referring to her appearance and her ability to still makeup and dress up as the public "Stevie" character she's presented to the world for years. And it seems like the "stuff that keeps you busy" she's referring to is going out on the road :shrug:

[BigAl84]

I’m sure 2020 was supposed to be a big year for Stevie. I’m sure there was plans for the jukebox tour to roll out in early spring after he RRHOF induction, but then the world completely changed due to covid.

Then the TikTok dreams thing completely overshadowed “show us the way”....and now you’ve got Mick Fleetwood appearing to try and patch things up at some level without the queens approval....

In her self absorbed bubble I’m sure she’s a real peach to be around these days.

[michelej1]

Money brings them back every time. Not long ago I was watching those long interviews during the Dance rehearsals. They all sort of gave generic answers why the band rejoined. We know Chris was not thrilled about it but went along so the group would reap the benefits. The Eagles just sold out arenas across the country and so did the Dance tour. Lindsey sort of bit his tongue and everyone saw big bucks. Each one of their solo careers including Stevie was in decline and even Stevie was not a big concert draw anymore. I saw the Dance tour in West Palm Beach in 1997. The Palm Beach Post brought up the point that they rented out an entire floor of the Breakers Hotel in Palm Beach yet the year prior Mick and his band stayed at some dirty Best Western along the interstate.
Money makes the world go around. Do you think anyone of them really need this drama? Money makes the world go around.

I just read how even though Elton John’s “farewell tour” was cut because of Covid, it still made $87 million.

[michelej1]

Lindsey can still sing pretty well. His voice sounds the same as it did pre-heart attack, at least from what I heard.



We share a youtube history here. I was watching some Dance stuff and thinking about how it was on that tour that their shows became tightly scripted and predictable, which gave the whole thing a more corporate air. Most live shows follow a format that becomes somewhat repetitive, but they really lost their spontaneity after 1982. Maybe the TITN/BTM/STC tours were looser; I don't know.

A lot of us thought Chris looked bored on The Dance tour, so your point about her kind of just going along with things is accurate. I think they genuinely enjoyed themselves on the '97 tour, and there was a lot of excitement around it that they fed off of, it was just really different.

Yes, scripted. How much of a psycho do you have to be, to repeat word for word the same “banter” that you exchanged on a very popular DVD and concert broadcast? Isn’t that weird?

[jbrownsjr]

Yes, scripted. How much of a psycho do you have to be, to repeat word for word the same “banter” that you exchanged on a very popular DVD and concert broadcast? Isn’t that weird?

Yes, it is very weird.

[SteveMacD]

Yes, scripted. How much of a psycho do you have to be, to repeat word for word the same “banter” that you exchanged on a very popular DVD and concert broadcast? Isn’t that weird?
Or turning the sweet moment of the show into a concert t-shirt.

It’s been a Broadway show since The Dance, SWY being the exception.

[SteveMacD]

....with the exception of Mick(several ex wife’s, young kids)
Mick’s younger daughters are 18 now.

it may not be about the money. It’s a job that keeps these older folks active because there is an audience that will still pay to see them. You think?
It’s the thing which they dedicated their lives to. It’s their passion. If you were their age, still able to do it, and still enjoyed it, would you seriously turn down $175,000 a show for two hours of playing the music you spent your life making?

[michelej1]

Yes, it is very weird.

Pretty weird.

[HomerMcvie]

Pretty weird.

It's kind of amazing that some advisor never told them how DUMB it sounded, regurgitating the same crap, night after night, year after year.

[elle]

It's kind of amazing that some advisor never told them how DUMB it sounded, regurgitating the same crap, night after night, year after year.

Because advisors saw that it sells. And I guess players saw it as participating in the theater play. Many bands do it. Springsteen actually did have a theater play where he was doing the exact same lines every night.

But that’s all for people seeing shows just once. Bands are usually aware if they have fans following them around and change the s et list and the banter to respect those fans. Not FM. They couldn’t care less, even though they knew well fans are following them to multiple shows. Just money, and lazy money. As people are saying any creativity in live shows was gone after Mirage tour, and from the Dance in it was a corporate show.

[BigAl84]

Because advisors saw that it sells. And I guess players saw it as participating in the theater play. Many bands do it. Springsteen actually did have a theater play where he was doing the exact same lines every night.

But that’s all for people seeing shows just once. Bands are usually aware if they have fans following them around and change the s et list and the banter to respect those fans. Not FM. They couldn’t care less, even though they knew well fans are following them to multiple shows. Just money, and lazy money. As people are saying any creativity in live shows was gone after Mirage tour, and from the Dance in it was a corporate show.

I've always felt like Fleetwood Mac never had a clue about their die-hard following, especially since 1997. They acknowledged that their crowds became highly diversified in age, but I don't think they ever realized how many younger, major fans were up front for multiple shows and multiple tours between 2003-2015. They've always pandered to the casual fanbase that came to see the hits.

I think Lindsey's eyes have been opened upon seeing so many fans following his solo tours and being very enthusiastic about his album catalog, not necessarily "the hits". He's been more accessible in general over the past 10+ years. I think he realizes that although his solo material is not exactly mainstream, he has a very dedicated base.

[David]

Or turning the sweet moment of the show into a concert t-shirt. As choreography, it was only slightly superior to the moves that Sharon, Lori, and Elisecia Wright were getting down with on the 1986 tour, when they were dressed like Anne Bonny and Mary Read (https://youtu.be/Cb751r1uyNo?t=7).

It’s been a Broadway show since The Dance, SWY being the exception. Sharon, Lori, and Elisecia could have been choristers from a Pirates of Penzance roadshow.

[jbrownsjr]

Pretty weird.

Damn! I had 1 line and I screwed it up!! :]

[anusha]

I've honestly avoided all FM boards since the firing, and maybe before then. But lurking here again makes me want to share my grand unified theory of how Lindsey got dumped. So here goes:

1997: FM do The Dance and are pleasantly surprised by tour $ales.
1997-1998: FM get along during the tour and all the awards/hoopla/relevance.
2003-2014/2015: SYW done, SN/LB feuding again over album, pretend to like each other to keep fans from The Dance buying tickets while Christine is not in the band and they need LB.
2014-2016: FM tour with LB and CM and SN. LB and SN actively feuding but pretending not to as much as they can, continue to tour.
2016-2017: Stevie makes 24K Gold, gets good reviews, has strong touring with The Pretenders
2017: Buckingham/McVie comes out, clearly pissing off SN. FM do The Classic, SN, Mick, Irving Azoff see how The Eagles make tons of $$$$ with Vince Gill and Glen Frey's son, realize they don't need the full Rumours lineup as long as they have Stevie.
2018: Me too movement and Stevie builds up a head of steam that she is the aggrieved party and that LB doesn't deserve to be on tour because of past abuse issues, tells Vanessa Carlton. SN/LB continue pettiness at MusiCares, but SN decides that she's done and Azoff calls to fire LB.

The thing to remember is that SN and the band had to convince themselves they were justified. They needed to make LB a villain. And look, these are all SERIOUSLY flawed people, but I really think the big factors were seeing how much $$$$ The Eagles could make without the original lineup and for SN, feeling personally aggrieved about LB, whether it's the feelings that came up through Me Too, or him smirking or whatever else it is. But I think the Vanessa Carlton comment is probably a decent indicator of what Stevie was thinking too.

I don't think any of them are saints, but by all accounts (including Sara Fleetwood), LB has tried to work on himself to be a better person. I don't think any of the others have done anything but become worse -- more narcissistic, more greedy, less integrity. Needless to say, I won't be seeing FM in concert again. I do look forward to seeing LB.

[bombaysaffires]

I've honestly avoided all FM boards since the firing, and maybe before then. But lurking here again makes me want to share my grand unified theory of how Lindsey got dumped. So here goes:

1997: FM do The Dance and are pleasantly surprised by tour $ales.
1997-1998: FM get along during the tour and all the awards/hoopla/relevance.
2003-2014/2015: SYW done, SN/LB feuding again over album, pretend to like each other to keep fans from The Dance buying tickets while Christine is not in the band and they need LB.
2014-2016: FM tour with LB and CM and SN. LB and SN actively feuding but pretending not to as much as they can, continue to tour.
2016-2017: Stevie makes 24K Gold, gets good reviews, has strong touring with The Pretenders
2017: Buckingham/McVie comes out, clearly pissing off SN. FM do The Classic, SN, Mick, Irving Azoff see how The Eagles make tons of $$$$ with Vince Gill and Glen Frey's son, realize they don't need the full Rumours lineup as long as they have Stevie.
2018: Me too movement and Stevie builds up a head of steam that she is the aggrieved party and that LB doesn't deserve to be on tour because of past abuse issues, tells Vanessa Carlton. SN/LB continue pettiness at MusiCares, but SN decides that she's done and Azoff calls to fire LB.

The thing to remember is that SN and the band had to convince themselves they were justified. They needed to make LB a villain. And look, these are all SERIOUSLY flawed people, but I really think the big factors were seeing how much $$$$ The Eagles could make without the original lineup and for SN, feeling personally aggrieved about LB, whether it's the feelings that came up through Me Too, or him smirking or whatever else it is. But I think the Vanessa Carlton comment is probably a decent indicator of what Stevie was thinking too.

I don't think any of them are saints, but by all accounts (including Sara Fleetwood), LB has tried to work on himself to be a better person. I don't think any of the others have done anything but become worse -- more narcissistic, more greedy, less integrity. Needless to say, I won't be seeing FM in concert again. I do look forward to seeing LB.

Remind me what the Vanessa Carlton comment was?

[Macfan4life]

Yes, scripted. How much of a psycho do you have to be, to repeat word for word the same “banter” that you exchanged on a very popular DVD and concert broadcast? Isn’t that weird?
Wow you hit the nail on the head. I was so excited to see the Dance concert but was so disappointed it was the exact show (with banter) as the MTV concert that I recorded and saw a million times before the concert.
Scripted and programmed which made it a little boring and I felt guilty about being a little bored how I waited my entire life to see those 5 on stage again.
This is why the 1990 Farewell tour was so much more thrilling for me. You had no idea what the hell Stevie was going to do and they dug into older songs like Landslide they had not played in a long time.

Good gosh just imagine Landslide was a song they had not played in a long time LOL

[UnwindedDreams]

I've honestly avoided all FM boards since the firing, and maybe before then. But lurking here again makes me want to share my grand unified theory of how Lindsey got dumped. So here goes:

1997: FM do The Dance and are pleasantly surprised by tour $ales.
1997-1998: FM get along during the tour and all the awards/hoopla/relevance.
2003-2014/2015: SYW done, SN/LB feuding again over album, pretend to like each other to keep fans from The Dance buying tickets while Christine is not in the band and they need LB.
2014-2016: FM tour with LB and CM and SN. LB and SN actively feuding but pretending not to as much as they can, continue to tour.
2016-2017: Stevie makes 24K Gold, gets good reviews, has strong touring with The Pretenders
2017: Buckingham/McVie comes out, clearly pissing off SN. FM do The Classic, SN, Mick, Irving Azoff see how The Eagles make tons of $$$$ with Vince Gill and Glen Frey's son, realize they don't need the full Rumours lineup as long as they have Stevie.
2018: Me too movement and Stevie builds up a head of steam that she is the aggrieved party and that LB doesn't deserve to be on tour because of past abuse issues, tells Vanessa Carlton. SN/LB continue pettiness at MusiCares, but SN decides that she's done and Azoff calls to fire LB.

The thing to remember is that SN and the band had to convince themselves they were justified. They needed to make LB a villain. And look, these are all SERIOUSLY flawed people, but I really think the big factors were seeing how much $$$$ The Eagles could make without the original lineup and for SN, feeling personally aggrieved about LB, whether it's the feelings that came up through Me Too, or him smirking or whatever else it is. But I think the Vanessa Carlton comment is probably a decent indicator of what Stevie was thinking too.

I don't think any of them are saints, but by all accounts (including Sara Fleetwood), LB has tried to work on himself to be a better person. I don't think any of the others have done anything but become worse -- more narcissistic, more greedy, less integrity. Needless to say, I won't be seeing FM in concert again. I do look forward to seeing LB.

So Vanessa Carlton said Lindsey attacked women.
I thought the only times of public record that Lindsey abused Stevie was when he threw a guitar in 1980 and when he shoved her on a car after she started hitting him in 1987. Stevie said she lunged toward him and attacked him.

However, I thought they had "The Talk" in 2012 at his house while doing the EP and all was forgiven.

What other attacking is there? Stevie said he asked her to water down the costumes for SYW but that didn't happen anyway. SYW Tour was the last time she really wore the fabulous costumes on stage.

It's like if she's telling her people about Lindsey being brutalizing, why isn't LB in prison?:rolleyes:

[anusha]

That's right, here's Vanessa's tweet:

𝕍 𝕒 𝕟 𝕖 𝕤 𝕤 𝕒 ℂ 𝕒 𝕣 𝕝 𝕥 𝕠 𝕟
@VanessaCarlton
·
Mar 7
Lindsey has a history of abuse of women. What is amazing is how she holds her own with such grace. He should be told to **** off.

It was in response to someone posting the clip of Stevie and Lindsey debating her lyrics and the poster took offense at Stevie comparing herself to Bob Dylan in that exchange.

While it makes me uncomfortable to say it, I think there is probably enough out there between Carol Ann Harris' book, comments by Keith Olsen, and most importantly (to me), Richard Dashut basically confirming the instances of abuse on his now-defunct tumblr, to say that there was some physical violence going on in the LB/CAH relationship, at least, and maybe with other women (not Stevie). I know there were drugs and a lot of dysfunction, but for me, at least, there's enough for me to believe there is truth in the allegations. If it were someone we didn't admire, maybe the bar wouldn't even be so high to believe. On that same twitter thread that Vanessa commented on, Sara Fleetwood came out and said that she knew personally that Lindsey had worked very hard to change his life, both with professional help and without, and that she didn't think it was a fair characterization of who he is now. But obviously, each of us has to draw our own conclusions from what is out there.

Why I think this matters in the context of the firing is this -- most people want to feel justified when they do things that they know are going to be unpopular. It's not enough to say, well, I didn't want to work with him, and I have the power to get the others to fire him. It needs to be, he deserved it. And my theory, based on very little, admittedly, is that two thoughts came together for Stevie/Mick/Azoff/McVies to make the call to dump Lindsey: (1) they didn't need him to make money and (2) for Stevie, in particular, Lindsey was a bad guy who deserved it. I think the timing of Me Too absolutely gave Stevie that moral high ground she would have wanted to make the call to get rid of him, like she was done dealing with his "abusive" behavior and being difficult and she wanted to spend the rest of her career without it. That need to be justified is also why they did that whole press tour saying he refused to tour. Maybe my expectations are low, but part of me wondered if they would pull out the big gun of the abuse allegations when he sued, but I guess they didn't want to totally torch him in case they needed him later to make $$$$.

[UnwindedDreams]

^Yet in October, Stevie was singing Lindsey's praises on CBS News.

[anusha]

Definitely agree. What I was trying to do is figure out the thought process within Stevie, and also Mick/McVies/Azoff that got them to a point where firing Lindsey became a viable option, because it's clear that she and Lindsey probably stopped getting along in any kind of consistent way in 1976, except for a brief respite around The Dance, and the show of affection they/Stevie put on for the media to sell tickets between 1997 and 2016. Like, they were willing to milk that faux-romantic LB/SN stage dynamic for just about 20 years to sell tickets after The Dance, so I found it interesting to figure out what changed to make them decide to boot Lindsey after all that time.

Stevie is a master marketer of her image, and she is aware that talking about Lindsey sells. Maybe she wanted to clear her name because she saw some online backlash to the firing but she also has consistently mentioned Lindsey in her solo press for many, many years. They broke up in 1976, and he stopped having any real role in producing music with her in 2003, so he has very little relevance to her musical projects or her personal life. Yet, she talks about him a whole lot. It's best to just ignore all of it, because it's wildly inconsistent and mostly untrue.

[UnwindedDreams]

^ I think Lindsey would've been fired before the 2009, 13, or 14 Tour if they all believe Carol Ann Harris.

Mick kept Lindsey because none of those clowns knew how to be a director or an "office manager". She can talk about being a restaurant server for a few years but she never worked a job that required critical thinking.

Lindsey came up with visions for albums and crafted concert setlists and arrangements. She showed up to a concert rehearsal and all she had to do was say which songs she wanted to sing while sitting on her "director's chair" and say I want a little time to go down stage and bang my head so you guys just jam a little.

I don't know what Stevie gains by talking about Lindsey. It brings him more attention.

[bombaysaffires]

if we're going to look at the behavior of many men in Stevie's life over the years, MANY of them meet various definitions of abuse- maybe not necessarily physical but (to me) clearly emotional and psychological abuse (at a minimum things like gaslighting and demeaning her and her work). I would definitely put Joe at the top of that list. I think JD Souther too in a different way-- he was dismissive of her work and demeaning of her opinions on things. I think Henley had streak of that in him too but I think he didn't dump on her songs/career the way others did. I wouldn't at all say it was abusive but just the idea that Jimmy would shove her in the basement (*figuratively) when she was at that time definitely a BIG star has total shades of male privilege and disrespect. I think Paul Fishkin was lovely to her and a good guy and one of the ones she let get away. Perhaps Hernan too. (though was he the one who dumped his fiancé for Stevie? Not so nice... Might have been someone else who did that:shrug:). So maybe a bigger issue is for Stevie to have figured out why she lacked the self confidence to assert herself with men in her life, and whether she did so in many cases because she felt that's what she needed to do to move up in her career (also a very #metoo consideration as the system has been rigged that way for a very long time).

Lindsey doesn't suffer fools well-- female OR male. There are plenty of guys who have gotten chewed out by him ; he's a perfectionist who was hard on himself and everyone around him. Clearly he became aware of this a long time ago and addressed it. I mean it's like in a 12 step program-- you recognize whom you've hurt along the way and you apologize to them and make amends. Well it sure feels like LB has tried to do this over and over again to SN......and that seems appropriate....but I don't think anyone has to apologize for having high professional standards and pushing for perfection...and that feels like where they still have a major disconnect because Stevie has been in a position of only hearing compliments for a long time from those around her.

[anusha]

I agree -- I don't agree with the justifications that I'm describing, but I think that it was part of the whole picture inside Stevie's head. But that is in no way an endorsement of it. Like I said, they wanted an excuse to do what they wanted and not appear to be the bad guys. I think this played into the mindset, but it's just a theory.

I suspect Stevie was fairly assertive especially at the height of her post-Rumours fame. A lot of the guys she was with seem like jerks, but she didn't seem cowed by any of them. That doesn't mean that she didn't have to put up with a lot of sexist BS.

I personally haven't liked any of SN's solo albums since TOSOTM. There have been bits and pieces that have been good, but overall, I find her lyrics generally have crossed the line from self-mythology to straight on narcissism, and I don't like the musical arrangements. I do think Lindsey is really the only one who is producing music that is vital and interesting (and I say this as someone who was lukewarm on his SYW songs overall).

As much as I am trying to get inside the mindset, the firing was really the last straw. There's been so much moneygrabbing by FM/Mick over recent years with all the reissues and greatest hits tours, and I was along for ride until now.

The thing I find galling about the firing, as a fan, is this -- FM, and especially SN, were willing to milk fan/press interest in her and Lindsey for 20 years after The Dance. Even though it's pretty clear it's been a contentious and fairly toxic relationship the entire time. Stevie was willing to play up the fake romance when she could profit from it, but then she can't be civil and stands on "principle" about not waiting for his solo tour when FM has waited for her solo projects before starting theirs? I think the entire band went along with firing Lindsey because they knew it wouldn't affect them financially. And to me, that cheapens anything we saw from them after maybe the nights when they filmed The Dance.

[UnwindedDreams]

Stevie was willing to play up the fake romance when she could profit from it, but then she can't be civil and stands on "principle" about not waiting for his solo tour when FM has waited for her solo projects before starting theirs
When Stevie's ready, that's when Mick's ready. Meanwhile Stevie's 2012 IYD Tour was playing sheds with tons of empty seats.

2018 was a rush to do another run through the past tour. The bones of the 2018 set is what they did with Lindsey. They copied Lindsey's Chain, Chris song, and Dreams opening trio that he sequenced for OWTS and MusiCares. Acoustic set in the middle with just Stevie and Neil (that started on Unleashed) And Gold Dust Woman into Go Your Own Way to close the main set and then encore with Don't Stop.

They used him then lose him.

[bombaysaffires]

The thing I find galling about the firing, as a fan, is this -- FM, and especially SN, were willing to milk fan/press interest in her and Lindsey for 20 years after The Dance. Even though it's pretty clear it's been a contentious and fairly toxic relationship the entire time. Stevie was willing to play up the fake romance when she could profit from it, but then she can't be civil and stands on "principle" about not waiting for his solo tour when FM has waited for her solo projects before starting theirs? I think the entire band went along with firing Lindsey because they knew it wouldn't affect them financially. And to me, that cheapens anything we saw from them after maybe the nights when they filmed The Dance.

This :( :mad:

[elle]

but part of me wondered if they would pull out the big gun of the abuse allegations when he sued.

see to me the fact that he sued them knowing full well they can take it to court and air all the FM dirty laundry (wouldn't public eat that up??) was a sign he knew there's no there there. they had nothing on him.

if they did, that was the perfect time to air that out, in the height of #metoo. rabid SN stans kept repeating and insinuating SN was an abused woman trying to justify the firing - but all they had was a whisper campaign. if SN had something, why not come out right then - and again, if that was the case would he be stupid enough to risk it with the lawsuit?

also, if you remember the way they originally planned it was to say that he left. he just refused to go along with that, went to the press and made it clear he was fired for petty reasons. for months FM statements were all over the place because their prepared statements were that he left and they didn't have good reasoning and story to go with the firing.

one last thing - McVies were never onboard with firing. they just were too spineless to try to prevent it. it was never "the whole band wanted to fire LB" - it was always Stevie and probably Azoff, with Mick going along with it for money.

[HomerMcvie]

see to me the fact that he sued them knowing full well they can take it to court and air all the FM dirty laundry (wouldn't public eat that up??) was a sign he knew there's no there there. they had nothing on him.

if they did, that was the perfect time to air that out, in the height of #metoo. rabid SN stans kept repeating and insinuating SN was an abused woman trying to justify the firing - but all they had was a whisper campaign. if SN had something, why not come out right then - and again, if that was the case would he be stupid enough to risk it with the lawsuit?

also, if you remember the way they originally planned it was to say that he left. he just refused to go along with that, went to the press and made it clear he was fired for petty reasons. for months FM statements were all over the place because their prepared statements were that he left and they didn't have good reasoning and story to go with the firing.

one last thing - McVies were never onboard with firing. they just were too spineless to try to prevent it. it was never "the whole band wanted to fire LB" - it was always Stevie and probably Azoff, with Mick going along with it for money.
The McVie's are spineless. I mean, I know they're all 100 now, but jesus, step up to the plate!

They might not have been huge without $tevie, but THEY ALSO WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN HUGE WITHOUT LINDSEY.

[SteveMacD]

2018 was a rush to do another run through the past tour. The bones of the 2018 set is what they did with Lindsey. They copied Lindsey's Chain, Chris song, and Dreams opening trio that he sequenced for OWTS and MusiCares. Acoustic set in the middle with just Stevie and Neil (that started on Unleashed) And Gold Dust Woman into Go Your Own Way to close the main set and then encore with Don't Stop.

They used him then lose him.

On the 1987 tour, they did SYLM, The Chain, and Dreams to open, HAEWAFY as the “acoustic” number midway through the set, and Don’t Stop was in the encore. In 1990, it was In The Back of My Mind, The Chain, and Dreams to open, Landslide in the middle of the set, and Don’t Stop in the encore. But, sure, everything that ever happened with a Fleetwood Mac setlist ever was all Lindsey. Even when he wasn’t in the band.

Christine has had “Don’t Stop” in the encore set ever since her 1984 tour, which he was also not involved with.

[SteveMacD]

Lindsey’s firing had nothing to do with abuse or MeToo.

Stevie didn’t need Lindsey or Fleetwood Mac after 1981, yet Stevie continued to work with Lindsey for over 35 years afterwards. That’s simply not consistent with abuse. Not saying he didn’t with other women or that he didn’t work on his demons, but I genuinely do not believe he was abusive towards Stevie. Just compare Stevie and Lindsey to Ike and Tina Turner, where there was actual abuse. Tina got out and never looked back.

[SteveMacD]

The McVie's are spineless. I mean, I know they're all 100 now, but jesus, step up to the plate!

They might not have been huge without $tevie, but THEY ALSO WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN HUGE WITHOUT LINDSEY.

John McVie, more than any of them, is responsible for their success. On December 31, 1974, Fleetwood Mac was on a major label coming off a Top 40 album. They got signed to that label in 1969 because Fleetwood Mac was one of the top bands in Europe. Fleetwood Mac was one of the top bands in Europe because Peter Green was one of the top blues guitarists in England. Peter became that in the Bluesbreakers, after Eric Clapton had become a guitar god with them and basically invited the Gibson Les Paul through a Marshall amp sound. Prior to that, Clapton was a hot shot guitarist from the Yardbirds, though not yet a god. Clapton joined the Bluesbreakers because they were the blues band with the most potential in England. John McVie was the bassist when this happened. Without John McVie playing for Mayall, there wouldn’t be a Fleetwood Mac on a label for Stevie and Lindsey to join and none of what eventually happened would have been possible. He is literally the foundation of Fleetwood Mac.

John McVie was the bassist of record for the debut/breakout recordings for John Mayall, Eric Clapton, Peter Green, Aynsley Dunbar, Mick Taylor, Mick Fleetwood, Jeremy Spencer, Danny Kirwan, Stevie Nicks, and Lindsey Buckingham. That’s ten artists inducted into the Hall of Fame, two multiple times. Coincidence?

Spineless? No. He just wanted to go on tour and was probably tired of the BS. What gets him the biggest paycheck? Considering all of the vitally important albums he was on, which tour is better for his legacy? The one that’s full of new songs played in theaters built around the eccentricities of one that will probably be discarded by the next tour or the one representative of the entire career that’s played to arenas?

[HomerMcvie]

John McVie, more than any of them, is responsible for their success. On December 31, 1974, Fleetwood Mac was on a major label coming off a Top 40 album. They got signed to that label in 1969 because Fleetwood Mac was one of the top bands in Europe. Fleetwood Mac was one of the top bands in Europe because Peter Green was one of the top blues guitarists in England. Peter became that in the Bluesbreakers, after Eric Clapton had become a guitar god with them and basically invited the Gibson Les Paul through a Marshall amp sound. Prior to that, Clapton was a hot shot guitarist from the Yardbirds, though not yet a god. Clapton joined the Bluesbreakers because they were the blues band with the most potential in England. John McVie was the bassist when this happened. Without John McVie playing for Mayall, there wouldn’t be a Fleetwood Mac on a label for Stevie and Lindsey to join and none of what eventually happened would have been possible. He is literally the foundation of Fleetwood Mac.

John McVie was the bassist of record for the debut/breakout recordings for John Mayall, Eric Clapton, Peter Green, Aynsley Dunbar, Mick Taylor, Mick Fleetwood, Jeremy Spencer, Danny Kirwan, Stevie Nicks, and Lindsey Buckingham. That’s ten artists inducted into the Hall of Fame, two multiple times. Coincidence?

Spineless? No. He just wanted to go on tour and was probably tired of the BS. What gets him the biggest paycheck? Considering all of the vitally important albums he was on, which tour is better for his legacy? The one that’s full of new songs played in theaters built around the eccentricities of one that will probably be discarded by the next tour or the one representative of the entire career that’s played to arenas?
Do you know what's good for your legacy as a HUMAN BEING? Being LOYAL to people you've worked with for 43 years. Having a spine, and standing up for what's right. WHY TF does John need with a bigger paycheck????? He's survived cancer, and lort only knows how many years he has left. DOING THE RIGHT THING. THAT'S what matters at this stage in life, or should.

And the Peter Green years have NOTHING to do with where they were in 1974. They were going NOWHERE. A minor hit, and milking it by earning minimal money. Big f*cking deal. They all had a debt....an eternal debt to Lindsey, and they welched(no pun intended) on a debt owed.

[UnwindedDreams]

John McVie, more than any of them, is responsible for their success. On December 31, 1974, Fleetwood Mac was on a major label coming off a Top 40 album. They got signed to that label in 1969 because Fleetwood Mac was one of the top bands in Europe. Fleetwood Mac was one of the top bands in Europe because Peter Green was one of the top blues guitarists in England. Peter became that in the Bluesbreakers, after Eric Clapton had become a guitar god with them and basically invited the Gibson Les Paul through a Marshall amp sound. Prior to that, Clapton was a hot shot guitarist from the Yardbirds, though not yet a god. Clapton joined the Bluesbreakers because they were the blues band with the most potential in England. John McVie was the bassist when this happened. Without John McVie playing for Mayall, there wouldn’t be a Fleetwood Mac on a label for Stevie and Lindsey to join and none of what eventually happened would have been possible. He is literally the foundation of Fleetwood Mac.

The one that’s full of new songs played in theaters built around the eccentricities of one that will probably be discarded by the next tour or the one representative of the entire career that’s played to arenas?
The one that played Crowded House, Split Enz, and Tom Petty?

[UnwindedDreams]

On the 1987 tour, they did SYLM, The Chain, and Dreams to open, HAEWAFY as the “acoustic” number midway through the set, and Don’t Stop was in the encore. In 1990, it was In The Back of My Mind, The Chain, and Dreams to open, Landslide in the middle of the set, and Don’t Stop in the encore. But, sure, everything that ever happened with a Fleetwood Mac setlist ever was all Lindsey. Even when he wasn’t in the band.

Christine has had “Don’t Stop” in the encore set ever since her 1984 tour, which he was also not involved with.

Unnecessary anger written in your post.
You're incorrect to bring up '87 because '87 came from 82:rolleyes: Did you know In the Back of My Mind isn't a Chris song?
Lindsey created the acoustic portion of the show. Big Love. Landslide. NGBA.
To deny that Lindsey didn't craft the Mac setlist template is to deny that every person has an orefice.

[sue]

Unnecessary anger written in your post.
You're incorrect to bring up '87 because '87 came from 82:rolleyes: Did you know In the Back of My Mind isn't a Chris song?
Lindsey created the acoustic portion of the show. Big Love. Landslide. NGBA.
To deny that Lindsey didn't craft the Mac setlist template is to deny that every person has an orefice.

I have plenty of orifice, but can’t find one orefice.

I often don’t quite understand all that Stevemacd goes on about.
But I don’t hear any anger in his quote

[anusha]

I don't think there is a way to parse out whose contribution means the most in FM, to be honest. You have Mick/John, an amazing rhythm section and the founders, Chris, the writer of some of the most enduring, radio friendly hits, Stevie, an amazing stylist, writer and a genuine star, and Lindsey, an amazing performer, producer and musical architect.

They've toured without Lindsey or Chris in the past, and it's been fine but not great. But somehow a band that always used to tout how much their message was about unity and the ways they've gone through so much together, in the end, they were always chasing the moneymaking machine that was The Eagles (whom I respect more for being honest about what their goals are).

I mean, it was a no brainer for Mick and the McVies financially and even in terms of what kinds of shows they wanted to play -- arenas and not theaters. Stevie knew that, and they knew that. What is disappointing to me is not Mick and John -- they always have been willing to pick up new players and move on -- but Chris. I mean she made a duo album and did a whole tour with Lindsey, and then to just roll over and let this happen? She might have had the power to say, I'm not doing this. Man, that's just cold to me. And, I'm sure that behind the scenes, she's emails Lindsey and says, I had to go along with them if I wanted to actually play big shows and make money. And he probably accepts that. But that's the part that I think is especially gross.

While I think Stevie/Mick bear the most responsibility for the firing, the McVies are responsible for their own choices. Everyone gets to make their choices, but they don't get to control how other people see those choices. Mick/Stevie/McVies tried to have both when firing Lindsey, and that's just not happening.

[HomerMcvie]

I have plenty of orifice, but can’t find one orefice.



:lol::lol::lol:
I myself am somewhat of a spelling Nazi. Or is that NazE?:p

[HomerMcvie]

I mean, it was a no brainer for Mick and the McVies financially and even in terms of what kinds of shows they wanted to play -- arenas and not theaters. Stevie knew that, and they knew that. What is disappointing to me is not Mick and John -- they always have been willing to pick up new players and move on -- but Chris. I mean she made a duo album and did a whole tour with Lindsey, and then to just roll over and let this happen? She might have had the power to say, I'm not doing this. Man, that's just cold to me. And, I'm sure that behind the scenes, she's emails Lindsey and says, I had to go along with them if I wanted to actually play big shows and make money. And he probably accepts that. But that's the part that I think is especially gross.

While I think Stevie/Mick bear the most responsibility for the firing, the McVies are responsible for their own choices. Everyone gets to make their choices, but they don't get to control how other people see those choices. Mick/Stevie/McVies tried to have both when firing Lindsey, and that's just not happening.

Yep, THIS.

This is what I've been saying since day one. Chris had the power to stop this, and she rolled over like a dog. "You can't fire him. You fire him, and I'm GONE".
That would have stopped it. Guaranteed.
Prove me wrong.

[sue]

:lol::lol::lol:
I myself am somewhat of a spelling Nazi. Or is that NazE?:p

All I can say is...
Don’t be stupid be a Smartie...

And switch your spell checker thing on.

[UnwindedDreams]

I have plenty of orifice, but can’t find one orefice.

I often don’t quite understand all that Stevemacd goes on about.
But I don’t hear any anger in his quote
"But, sure, everything that ever happened with a Fleetwood Mac setlist ever was all Lindsey."
This is a red herring and the inclusion of "But, sure" presents his frustration with persons who credit Lindsey with being the tour musical director and set sequencer. Sure, Stevie says to Lindsey "I want to do Beautiful Child or Seven Wonders" but she's not putting together the running order or the song's live arrangement.
There is photographic proof of him at the 2014 tour announcement board in RS looking at the songs pinned against the board: Chain, YMLF, Dreams

[SteveMacD]

Do you know what's good for your legacy as a HUMAN BEING? Being LOYAL to people you've worked with for 43 years.
Like leaving the band less than eight weeks before a tour?

Having a spine, and standing up for what's right.
Or, Lindsey could have just waited to do his solo stuff.

WHY TF does John need with a bigger paycheck????? He's survived cancer, and lort only knows how many years he has left.
Wants to make sure his daughter is set for life? And, how is his finances anyone’s business?

I mean, it’s laughable that you’d think John would take that kind of financial hit for Lindsey. They’re a corporate rock band, not some buddy-buddy gang.

And the Peter Green years have NOTHING to do with where they were in 1974.
Without Peter Green, they wouldn’t have been on Warner-Reprise. The Bob Welch band wouldn’t have gotten signed to the label. However, they did well enough not to get dropped.

They were going NOWHERE. A minor hit, and milking it by earning minimal money. Big f*cking deal.
They had sold at least two million albums by the time Stevie and Lindsey joined. To put that in context, Wilco has only sold about three million albums in 25 years. They had viable careers, they just weren’t megastars. They were certainly bigger than most of today’s legacy indie rock bands that have been around for decades.

They all had a debt....an eternal debt to Lindsey, and they welched(no pun intended) on a debt owed.
Please, he owes them, too. Without the labors of John McVie during the Bluesbreakers, without Peter Green forming the band, without the songs that were big enough to land them on Warner-Reprise, and without all of the sweat equity from the constant touring and recording from 1967-74, there wouldn’t have been a viable band for Stevie and Lindsey to join in the first place.

Furthermore, Lindsey didn’t have the musical vocabulary on his own to make the albums they made. He couldn’t make legendary albums without the core trio. Christine had been writing hook and harmony laden pop gems before 1975 that were on par with anything she did after 1975. Lindsey and Stevie improved upon the harmonies, but the songs weren’t radically different. However, comparing the live Buckingham Nicks “Rhiannon” to the live fall, 1975 Fleetwood Mac “Rhiannon” is a bit more stark. One sounded like any random bar band, the other was a rock legend. And, I hear the blues in the Mac version (weirdly, I hear “No Road Is The Right Road” on the Fleetwood Mac version).

So, from my perspective, Lindsey owes them a debt of gratitude. He was going nowhere when they basically rescued Buckingham Nicks.

[HomerMcvie]

An absolute ray of sunshine. I'd expect nothing less...:lol:

[elle]

While I think Stevie/Mick bear the most responsibility for the firing, the McVies are responsible for their own choices. Everyone gets to make their choices, but they don't get to control how other people see those choices. Mick/Stevie/McVies tried to have both when firing Lindsey, and that's just not happening.

oh, definitely agree there. McVies could have walked and waited to see what happens. maybe managers would have to reconsider and go back to Lindsey, and maybe they would throw McVies over the fence too. considering some of the other old bands / corporations managed by the same managers, they would have probably toured with just Stevie and one more member and called it Fleetwood Mac, and charge even more to have money to push the damage under the rug and try to make up bad excuses for all 3 - McVies and Lindsey, the same as they were tripping all over themselves trying to make up excuses for what they did to Lindsey.

my only problem with your narrative is that you keep saying that "the band" or Mick Stevie and McVies fired Lindsey. that's not true. McVies didn't fire Lindsey. remember first vote they took, while Christine was on the plane to London and Lindsey on the plane to LA, with just Mick, Stevie and John, was Stevie and Mick for firing, John McVie against. John went back to LA and then Mick had to "work to convince" John for 3 days that he should do what Mick and Stevie wanted him to. so then John agreed.

then Christine was told and apparently disappeared off the face of the earth for several days and refused to have anything to do with them - or something like that. and then they dragged her back.

so no, McVies didn't fire Lindsey, they didn't want him out of the band. they had no problems with him whatsoever, probably just the opposite. they just went along after a lot of convincing, and probably threatening with contract breaches (which was bs because they actually breached the contract by firing Lindsey, and that's why they ended up paying him like he toured with them).

[HomerMcvie]

oh, definitely agree there. McVies could have walked and waited to see what happens. maybe managers would have to reconsider and go back to Lindsey, and maybe they would throw McVies over the fence too. considering some of the other old bands / corporations managed by the same managers, they would have probably toured with just Stevie and one more member and called it Fleetwood Mac, and charge even more to have money to push the damage under the rug and try to make up bad excuses for all 3 - McVies and Lindsey, the same as they were tripping all over themselves trying to make up excuses for what they did to Lindsey.

my only problem with your narrative is that you keep saying that "the band" or Mick Stevie and McVies fired Lindsey. that's not true. McVies didn't fire Lindsey. remember first vote they took, while Christine was on the plane to London and Lindsey on the plane to LA, with just Mick, Stevie and John, was Stevie and Mick for firing, John McVie against. John went back to LA and then Mick had to "work to convince" John for 3 days that he should do what Mick and Stevie wanted him to. so then John agreed.

then Christine was told and apparently disappeared off the face of the earth for several days and refused to have anything to do with them - or something like that. and then they dragged her back.

so no, McVies didn't fire Lindsey, they didn't want him out of the band. they had no problems with him whatsoever, probably just the opposite. they just went along after a lot of convincing, and probably threatening with contract breaches (which was bs because they actually breached the contract by firing Lindsey, and that's why they ended up paying him like he toured with them).

So Mick is as big a douchebag as $tevie. That's no surprise.

Even if the McVie's didn't want him to be fired, they ALLOWED IT, regardless of Mick's pushing them to accept it. The McVie's STILL SUCK for allowing it. IF THEY'D STOOD UP TO THE OLD BITCHY GOAT, it wouldn't have happened. Lindsey is the only one I still respect, and if he goes back to this sh*t show.....:mad::mad::mad:

[anusha]

I agree that Stevie and Mick are the most culpable. But I don’t think that makes the McVies totally innocent here. They all ultimately made a choice to go along with the firing. Maybe Mick convinced them because he needed an FM tour financially. Maybe they all wanted the money and the big crowds. I don’t blame them as much as I blame Stevie/Mick, but they’re all culpable on some level. Going along with bad people when you have a choice not to — and they all do. None of these people need more money or need to work. They’re not starving.

I wasn’t aware of the details of the timeline. Where did that all come out? It’s a fascinating study of how they operate.

[elle]

I agree that Stevie and Mick are the most culpable. But I don’t think that makes the McVies totally innocent here. They all ultimately made a choice to go along with the firing. Maybe Mick convinced them because he needed an FM tour financially. Maybe they all wanted the money and the big crowds. I don’t blame them as much as I blame Stevie/Mick, but they’re all culpable on some level. Going along with bad people when you have a choice not to — and they all do. None of these people need more money or need to work. They’re not starving.

I wasn’t aware of the details of the timeline. Where did that all come out? It’s a fascinating study of how they operate.

oh completely agree with what you are saying here. they are definitely culpable, even though they were against it but went along.

there were many things leaking out at the time. we've been hearing from insiders about this happening since the beginning of February 2018. it finally came out in April, probably before the band / managers really wanted but there was too many leaks by then so they had to stop the flood even with a half-baked story they had.

[SteveMacD]

oh completely agree with what you are saying here. they are definitely culpable, even though they were against it but went along.

there were many things leaking out at the time. we've been hearing from insiders about this happening since the beginning of February 2018. it finally came out in April, probably before the band / managers really wanted but there was too many leaks by then so they had to stop the flood even with a half-baked story they had.

Especially from Billy Burnette.

[HomerMcvie]

Especially from Billy Burnette.

Billy had a pretty big meltdown rant on Facebook. I'd kill if I'd thought to screenshot it before he deleted it.

[Jezzup]

So how long before Mick's next book comes out with all the details about Lindsey's firing? Assuming what has been revealed is accurate, Stevie would not be happy to have that confirmed by Mick. Does he need to wait until their touring days are over to keep the peace with Stevie?

[SteveMacD]

Billy had a pretty big meltdown rant on Facebook. I'd kill if I'd thought to screenshot it before he deleted it.

It was something along the lines of

“Lindsey Buckingham is out of Fleetwood Mac and I’m not in. I’m pissed, but I’ll get over it.”

[goldustsongbird]

Yes, scripted. How much of a psycho do you have to be, to repeat word for word the same “banter” that you exchanged on a very popular DVD and concert broadcast? Isn’t that weird?

That is pretty weeyuhd!

To Lindsey's credit, he didn't repeat the MLD intro word for word every time. There were a few shows where he shortened it and left out the preamble about "this whole reconvening of this [sic - you wouldn't say that to Bob Dylan!] five people." He also threw Sardonic World in there a few times, a holdover from his solo shows. He tried to make their Hamburger Helper different.

Or turning the sweet moment of the show into a concert t-shirt.

It’s been a Broadway show since The Dance, SWY being the exception.

Stevie always said that if she had been born 15 years earlier, she would've been a Broadway star. :laugh:

I've always felt like Fleetwood Mac never had a clue about their die-hard following, especially since 1997. They acknowledged that their crowds became highly diversified in age, but I don't think they ever realized how many younger, major fans were up front for multiple shows and multiple tours between 2003-2015. They've always pandered to the casual fanbase that came to see the hits.

I think Lindsey's eyes have been opened upon seeing so many fans following his solo tours and being very enthusiastic about his album catalog, not necessarily "the hits". He's been more accessible in general over the past 10+ years. I think he realizes that although his solo material is not exactly mainstream, he has a very dedicated base.

They threw the diehards a few bones when they put lesser-known songs like Farmer's Daughter, Storms, I Know I'm Not Wrong, and Without You back into their setlists. But that's one or two songs every couple of years. Then again, there are some songs they just can't do anymore because of Stevie's voice, so I'd rather they not subject audiences to her droning on Blue Letter.

Lindsey is prob the hippest member of the band. He doesn't use social media, but he isn't locked in his own little world like Stevie.

[goldustsongbird]

The McVie's are spineless. I mean, I know they're all 100 now, but jesus, step up to the plate!

They might not have been huge without $tevie, but THEY ALSO WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN HUGE WITHOUT LINDSEY.

I'm not at all shocked that they didn't say anything. They probably should have, but they've always tended to keep to themselves. It's likely habit at this point.

Thinking about all of this, wondering how long it'll take Mick to write that tell-all... After Lindsey left in 1987, Stevie said that everything with them goes in two-year cycles. All of their problems get ironed out in roughly that amount of time. If the world doesn't fold on itself, we should know soon enough. They will either patch things up and make some money off of yet another public reunion, or Mick will start doing book signings at B&N.

[HomerMcvie]

Thinking about all of this, wondering how long it'll take Mick to write that tell-all... After Lindsey left in 1987, Stevie said that everything with them goes in two-year cycles. All of their problems get ironed out in roughly that amount of time. If the world doesn't fold on itself, we should know soon enough. They will either patch things up and make some money off of yet another public reunion, or Mick will start doing book signings at B&N.
I've read Mick's first book MANY MANY times.

I bought his second book several years ago... I've never cracked the cover open. Now that we know what a LYING POS he is, I just don't care what drivel he cares to spin. Because 90% of it is lies, I'm sure.

[HomerMcvie]

Stevie always said that if she had been born 15 years earlier, she would've been a Broadway star. :laugh:


If $he'd been born 15 years earlier, $he'd have been too old for Lindsey, and $he'd still be a f*cking waitress now.

[Macfan4life]

If $he'd been born 15 years earlier, $he'd have been too old for Lindsey, and $he'd still be a f*cking waitress now.
Welcome to Planet Hollywood. Table for 2?

Edit: My post is completely ruined because its too tough to post photos here :(

[HomerMcvie]

Welcome to Planet Hollywood. Table for 2?

Edit: My post is completely ruined because its too tough to post photos here :(

I know. It's so hard to post pics here. I tried to go to Photobucket a few weeks ago, and it's no longer free hosting. That's how I used to post them here.

[goldustsongbird]

I've read Mick's first book MANY MANY times.

I bought his second book several years ago... I've never cracked the cover open. Now that we know what a LYING POS he is, I just don't care what drivel he cares to spin. Because 90% of it is lies, I'm sure.

I read part of Mick's first book online years ago. It was a poorly formatted .doc that was difficult to read, and I don't think the pre-existing editorial errors made it any easier to get through. I didn't get much out of it. As with most accounts like this, there are probably kernels of truth in it. I feel the same way about CAH's book.

[UnwindedDreams]

I read this interview with Neal Schon that came out on RollingStone yesterday and I could think from his comments about Mr. Irving Azoff's practices that Irving could have lied to Lindsey about Stevie saying "he goes, or I'm leaving" MF told a paparazzo that Stevie didn't give the band an ultimatum.

Neal suggests Irving isn't a 'straight-shooter'

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/neal-schon-interview-journey-arnel-pineda-steve-perry-universe-1109823

And for anyone who wants to write "Who cares?" to this post... maybe you should start your own message board where you can have rubber stamp friends.

[HomerMcvie]

I read this interview with Neal Schon that came out on RollingStone yesterday and I could think from his comments about Mr. Irving Azoff's practices that Irving could have lied to Lindsey about Stevie saying "he goes, or I'm leaving" MF told a paparazzo that Stevie didn't give the band an ultimatum.

Neal suggests Irving isn't a 'straight-shooter'

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/neal-schon-interview-journey-arnel-pineda-steve-perry-universe-1109823

And for anyone who wants to write "Who cares?" to this post... maybe you should start your own message board where you can have rubber stamp friends.
Mick is a god damned liar, though. I don't believe a word he says.

And WHY ELSE would they break up the Rumours five? Mick is all about the paycheck, so he wouldn't. The McVies wouldn't do it. It had to be that stupid old goat!

(after reading your Journey link) I'm sure that management is part of the problem. When you're no longer communicating with each other, but sending your messages through "your people", things are bound to get f*cked up.

Rubber stamp people....there's no reason to bring $tevie's friends into this!:lol:

[UnwindedDreams]

And WHY ELSE would they break up the Rumours five?
I think Mick and Stevie both don't want to make new Fleetwood Mac music. They'd rather hear the roar of the crowd when the old classic rock radio songs are played.
They don't want a lukewarm applause for new songs.

You have to wonder why Storms was dropped in the first month of the 2018 tour when it was played for an entire year on Unleashed. I think it bothers Stevie to see people sitting and chatting, or people walking with beer in their hands while she's singing a song in which she's pouring her heart out. What did she replace Storms with.. oh how surprising, Gypsy

[HomerMcvie]

I think Mick and Stevie both don't want to make new Fleetwood Mac music. They'd rather hear the roar of the crowd when the old classic rock radio songs are played.
They don't want a lukewarm applause for new songs.

You have to wonder why Storms was dropped in the first month of the 2018 tour when it was played for an entire year on Unleashed. I think it bothers Stevie to see people sitting and chatting, or people walking with beer in their hands while she's singing a song in which she's pouring her heart out. What did she replace Storms with.. oh how surprising, Gypsy

Then why would Mick have made BuckVie? I think this is all on $tevie.

As far as Storms, that's the way any band should be...if the crowd is bored with it, you shouldn't be doing it(IMO - I play in a band, and when we learn a new song, we'll do it 7-8 times live, and if the crowd isn't responding, we drop the song, 9/10 times).

[UnwindedDreams]

Then why would Mick have made BuckVie?
I understand. As you know well, BuckVie started as songs for a FM album. We had the summer 2014 pics of LB and CM pics at Village. It got pushed away because Stevie chose to do her album.
I think Mick wanted to be a part of seeing that music which he started to play on in 2014 go public. Of course, I'm really just talking off the top of my head

[soul_drifter333]

I think Mick and Stevie both don't want to make new Fleetwood Mac music. They'd rather hear the roar of the crowd when the old classic rock radio songs are played.
They don't want a lukewarm applause for new songs.

You have to wonder why Storms was dropped in the first month of the 2018 tour when it was played for an entire year on Unleashed. I think it bothers Stevie to see people sitting and chatting, or people walking with beer in their hands while she's singing a song in which she's pouring her heart out. What did she replace Storms with.. oh how surprising, Gypsy

Honestly, I don't think that Steve has sung her heart out in decades. She much more of a parody of what she used to be...going through the motions of what she thinks that her fans want or expect. She doesn't have to do the whole possessed Rhiannon to prove it but she is much too shallow of a person to reach down and actually mean what she sings anymore.

[SteveMacD]

I read this interview with Neal Schon that came out on RollingStone yesterday and I could think from his comments about Mr. Irving Azoff's practices that Irving could have lied to Lindsey about Stevie saying "he goes, or I'm leaving" MF told a paparazzo that Stevie didn't give the band an ultimatum.

Neal suggests Irving isn't a 'straight-shooter'

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/neal-schon-interview-journey-arnel-pineda-steve-perry-universe-1109823

And for anyone who wants to write "Who cares?" to this post... maybe you should start your own message board where you can have rubber stamp friends.
Please, I’m the one who’s been saying the whole smirk thing was BS all along. I still LOL that he and his minions believed that.

Lindsey’s days in Fleetwood Mac were numbered starting on June 20, 2017, when he told an L.A. Times reporter that he/Fleetwood Mac were doing the Classic shows for the money as well as a favor to Irving Azoff.
Asked how he felt about playing a show explicitly geared to evoke memories of the old days, Buckingham cringed.

"It doesn't necessarily speak of the aspiration to present anything in the way that Fleetwood Mac would want to present it on its own terms," he said. "But we're all very close to Irving, so it was just sort of a 'Why not?'"
Pretty diplomatic for a rock star.

“I was going to put it less diplomatically, but I stopped myself," he said.

"Do the undiplomatic version," McVie chimed in. "What were you going to say?"

"I was going to say, 'Just close your eyes and take the money,'" Buckingham answered, and the soundstage rippled with laughter again.

The interviewer also reviewed the Classic West show and gave them a terrible review.
I can’t say I wasn’t warned.

In a recent interview with Lindsey Buckingham, I asked the Fleetwood Mac frontman about turning his attention from his and Christine McVie’s new duets album to Fleetwood Mac’s participation in Classic West.

First he cringed, as though the mere mention of the two-day festival — which brought Fleetwood Mac and the Eagles, among other veteran rock acts, to Dodger Stadium over the weekend — had embarrassed him. Then he explained that the explicitly nostalgic event wasn’t exactly his dream gig, but that he’d agreed to do it in deference to his manager, Irving Azoff, who put the Classic West together.

Buckingham’s mantra for the show? “Just close your eyes and take the money.”
Having seen Sunday’s miserable excuse for a concert, I wish I’d been closing my eyes.

How do you think that went over with Irving Azoff, who was still promoting the shows and selling tickets? He had millions invested in those shows, and then the talent starts talking it down? Think it’s also purely coincidental that Irving dropped Lindsey as a client after Lindsey got fired from Fleetwood Mac?

By all accounts, the tour negotiations in November, 2017 were brutal. I can easily imagine Irving, not feeling the love for his client, asking Stevie how Mike Campbell was doing since Tom’s untimely passing at some point.

The decision to fire Lindsey was made before MusiCares.

[sleepless child]

I agree. I think the seeds were sown then. Lindsey and Chris doing an album and Stevie not wanting to record new music with the Mac. I'd say the different paths are Lindsey doesn't want to be an oldies band and Stevie is fine with that.

[anusha]

I think it’s not Lindsey’s poorly advised comments alone that did it. I was at Classic East and it was striking to me that The Eagles were so well received and made tons of money with replacements, including Vince Gill. The idea that even bands with iconic lineups like the Eagles could continue successfully at a high level of income/sales (not doing oldies triple bill shows like Journey etc), had to be a big motivator. I don’t think it was a smirk alone. The fact is, the desire to get rid of Lindsey was probably there since 1980. It became possible once Christine came back. And Stevie was surely angry after Buckingham McVie. But the belief that it would work on a business level may have come after The Classic. I’m sure Azoff wasn’t telling them to keep Lindsey after that.

[SteveMacD]

The fact is, the desire to get rid of Lindsey was probably there since 1980. It became possible once Christine came back.
They had that, though, from 1987-91.

I think Lindsey had been going out of his way to accommodate Stevie since 2009, and just quit once Christine was back in the picture, and things got much worse.

And Stevie was surely angry after Buckingham McVie.
If LBCM actually factored into it, which I don’t believe it did, it wasn’t because of Stevie. She was too busy with her own tour. No, it would have been because of Christine. The LBCM tour was the first time in 33 years that she was playing smaller venues that were only 3/4 capacity, if that. A far cry from what she was used to.

Read what she’s said about Christine Perfect, Christine McVie, BTM, Time, and ITM. Why would LBCM be any different? Sure, she had fun doing LBCM and wasn’t in favor of his ouster, but something on the scale of LBCM wasn’t how she wanted to go out. Given the choice of playing the United Center or an amphitheater at a Six Flags, of course she’s going to pick United Center. Why shouldn’t she want to be an arena rocker, especially as part of a band whose musical journey she’s been a part of since April, 1968, ten months after the band was formed and four months before she married John and before Danny joined?

But the belief that it would work on a business level may have come after The Classic. I’m sure Azoff wasn’t telling them to keep Lindsey after that.
Agreed.

[UnwindedDreams]

She was too busy with her own tour. Stevie did have January to September of 2016 off so she could have done FM recording then. She doesn't want to record any more music with FM because she feels it won't be a chart-topper. I think if AC/DC can top the charts, FM can.
Sure, she had fun doing LBCM and wasn’t in favor of his ouster, but something on the scale of LBCM wasn’t how she wanted to go out.
As far as the "to go out", that's in response to the ultimatum that Stevie gave Mick, right? If Stevie left, then the band would've been playing the Beacon rather than The Garden.

If the Rumours 5 did the 2018 tour, I believe the venues would've been the same as they were.

[elle]

Stevie did have January to September of 2016 off so she could have done FM recording then. She doesn't want to record any more music with FM because she feels it won't be a chart-topper. I think if AC/DC can top the charts, FM can.
As far as the "to go out", that's in response to the ultimatum that Stevie gave Mick, right? If Stevie left, then the band would've been playing the Beacon rather than The Garden.

except, this is completely nonsensical and unproven speculation.

no-name-recognition BuckVie or LB played and filled the Beacon. if huge FM brand played Beacon they would charge an arm and a leg. yeah i saw performers of FM caliber and brand - like Prince - play theaters like Beacon, but that was when they announced the show only 2 days before, charged tons for tickets, and had to add the second show the same night because of huge sales.

Stevie and Mick were cavorting all over fellow performers' shows in 2017, so their being "too busy" rings very hollow. neither of them were too busy to notice how Nicks name on her own (well with The Pretenders but they were pretending that was not the case ;) ) can perform in arenas and sheds while BuckVie had no name recognition so they could only perform in sheds and theaters.

that was behind the timing of Stevie's stunt. she was busy in 2017, yes. busy getting Mick and Azoff to side with her.

as to why? as many have said, the last straw was when Lindsey stopped appeasing her bs once Christine was back. in the past, Mick was usually on Lindsey's side with respect to new music, directing the shows etc. ask anyone who was at Mick's M&Gs between 2013-2015. with Christine back, it appears Lindsey miscalculated and thought he would now have both Mick and Christine on his side. big mistake, Stevie pulled big money managers!

[UnwindedDreams]

except, this is completely nonsensical and unproven speculation.


It's very likely that FM no Stevie would play the Garden. Maybe they wouldn't charge $225-$275 like they have the stones to with her in the band but it's very likely they could fill the Garden for a night.

Also, I don't think every artist's mentality is that "I always have to play sports arenas." Chrissie Hynde hates arenas.

Petty, Ben, and Campbell did theater tours in the HBs and Mudcrutch. Dylan does them. Tony Bennett. Lionel.

Stevie played BuckVie venues with Chris Isaak in 2007.

[elle]

It's very likely that FM no Stevie would play the Garden. Maybe they wouldn't charge $225-$275 like they have the stones to with her in the band but it's very likely they could fill the Garden for a night.

yep! they would definitely play arenas. and yes maybe not 3 nights in a row in some places.

i've seen tons of social media posts from people at FM shows in 2018 who clearly had no clue who is in the band but knew they were seeing FM and knew the songs.

[bombaysaffires]

except, this is completely nonsensical and unproven speculation.

no-name-recognition BuckVie or LB played and filled the Beacon. if huge FM brand played Beacon they would charge an arm and a leg. yeah i saw performers of FM caliber and brand - like Prince - play theaters like Beacon, but that was when they announced the show only 2 days before, charged tons for tickets, and had to add the second show the same night because of huge sales.

Stevie and Mick were cavorting all over fellow performers' shows in 2017, so their being "too busy" rings very hollow. neither of them were too busy to notice how Nicks name on her own (well with The Pretenders but they were pretending that was not the case ;) ) can perform in arenas and sheds while BuckVie had no name recognition so they could only perform in sheds and theaters.

that was behind the timing of Stevie's stunt. she was busy in 2017, yes. busy getting Mick and Azoff to side with her.

as to why? as many have said, the last straw was when Lindsey stopped appeasing her bs once Christine was back. in the past, Mick was usually on Lindsey's side with respect to new music, directing the shows etc. ask anyone who was at Mick's M&Gs between 2013-2015. with Christine back, it appears Lindsey miscalculated and thought he would now have both Mick and Christine on his side. big mistake, Stevie pulled big money managers!

This has a real ring of truth

[HomerMcvie]

This has a real ring of truth

Mick will/would ALWAYS pick money over anything. #hesascumbag

[michelej1]

This has a real ring of truth

Yeah. I miscalculated myself. Even putting Mick aside I thought that Chris and Lindsey versus one Stevie would be enough.

[UnwindedDreams]

i've seen tons of social media posts from people at FM shows in 2018 who clearly had no clue who is in the band but knew they were seeing FM and knew the songs.

When I went with my professor and her friend to Unleashed in 2009, she and her friend asked me "Is Stevie Nicks still in Fleetwood Mac?" while we were sitting in our arena seats. Her friend also said "I only know Fleetwood Mac's best hits":laugh:

Also, the lady next to me at Classic who came from Dallas asked me "Is Stevie Nicks in Fleetwood Mac?"

Fly from Texas to Queens, NY to take that risk!:laugh:

[jbrownsjr]

as to why? as many have said, the last straw was when Lindsey stopped appeasing her bs once Christine was back. in the past, Mick was usually on Lindsey's side with respect to new music, directing the shows etc. ask anyone who was at Mick's M&Gs between 2013-2015. with Christine back, it appears Lindsey miscalculated and thought he would now have both Mick and Christine on his side. big mistake, Stevie pulled big money managers!

This is pretty much what happened. BuckVie album/tour caused a lot of problems because it was Lindsey doing his own thing. And that fueled the power struggle. Fueled it to the point of bringing in management. And guess who has the fattest voice in mgmt?

Everything I've heard points to that. You have to understand Christine came back after 15 years. She can't really throw her weight around after being accepted back. It was great to see the fan reaction when she came back. Even more-so when she sang her first notes each show in 2014/2015. That was enough for her.

[soul_drifter333]

This is pretty much what happened. BuckVie album/tour caused a lot of problems because it was Lindsey doing his own thing. And that fueled the power struggle. Fueled it to the point of bringing in management. And guess who has the fattest voice in mgmt?

Everything I've heard points to that. You have to understand Christine came back after 15 years. She can't really throw her weight around after being accepted back. It was great to see the fan reaction when she came back. Even more-so when she sang her first notes each show in 2014/2015. That was enough for her.

Plus, Stevie had all the power for years as she refused to record with FM and they didn't force the issue but when Buck/McVie happened she figured out that they could possibly move on without her and she certainly wasn't having that. Even if she didn't really care about the FM tour (besides the money) she wouldn't have lost the power struggle with Lindsey and just leave the band, so the karaoke machine hit the road.

[anusha]

I figured the BuckVie project didn’t sit well with Stevie. But she doesn’t want to record with FM and went out and did 24k Gold when FM were begging her to record with them. She is totally within her rights to refuse but then why would she be angry re BuckVie? It’s not supplanting sales for FM or her solo work really. Or at least not much more impact than LB solo work.

I do think FM command a much higher income on tour than SN solo and it’s just a lot more hype, sold our venues etc. I am curious as to whether Stevie nets a lot more when she has to split FM tour $$$$ than she gets for solo tours. I have to think FM commands enough of a higher income and bigger audiences for SN to continue with it enough to push LB out. If it were close, she could just dump touring with FM and move on like she has basically done re recording music since Say You Will.

My sense is that Christine likely didn’t have the political capital to push hard against Stevie. Though I do wonder if Chris said she wouldn’t tour without LB, whether it would have mattered. That said, it seems like she was not in a place emotionally/temperamentally to push against the snowballing momentum of SN/MF/manager to push LB out. On one hand, it stinks that she was part of the ouster after such a good experience with BuckVie. OTOH, I am sure dealing with 45+ years of LB/SN drama/vitriol must be exhausting for the McVies (I get MF loves the drama), and I get them saying, whatever, we just want to do shows.

[johnnystorms]

I figured the BuckVie project didn’t sit well with Stevie. But she doesn’t want to record with FM and went out and did 24k Gold when FM were begging her to record with them. She is totally within her rights to refuse but then why would she be angry re BuckVie? It’s not supplanting sales for FM or her solo work really. Or at least not much more impact than LB solo work.

I do think FM command a much higher income on tour than SN solo and it’s just a lot more hype, sold our venues etc. I am curious as to whether Stevie nets a lot more when she has to split FM tour $$$$ than she gets for solo tours. I have to think FM commands enough of a higher income and bigger audiences for SN to continue with it enough to push LB out. If it were close, she could just dump touring with FM and move on like she has basically done re recording music since Say You Will.

My sense is that Christine likely didn’t have the political capital to push hard against Stevie. Though I do wonder if Chris said she wouldn’t tour without LB, whether it would have mattered. That said, it seems like she was not in a place emotionally/temperamentally to push against the snowballing momentum of SN/MF/manager to push LB out. On one hand, it stinks that she was part of the ouster after such a good experience with BuckVie. OTOH, I am sure dealing with 45+ years of LB/SN drama/vitriol must be exhausting for the McVies (I get MF loves the drama), and I get them saying, whatever, we just want to do shows.

How do you know it was 'such a good experience with BuckVie'? She might have gotten miffed by Buck's control issues and was happy to be rid of him

[UnwindedDreams]

How do you know it was 'such a good experience with BuckVie'? She might have gotten miffed by Buck's control issues and was happy to be rid of him After he was fired, she said she had a great time working with him in 2017.

What are the control issues? Are you talking about him being a musical director and a producer?

[jbrownsjr]

After he was fired, she said she had a great time working with him in 2017.

What are the control issues? Are you talking about him being a musical director and a producer?

She wouldn't have enjoyed BuckVie. Lindsey and Christine vibes and having fun. Being told not to put vibrato on every damn harmony so it's consistent. Not being the boss.
She's a meglomaniac. She needs and craves attention. Especially with FM. It's ground zero for her. And the fact that they did an album and tour without her, drove her insane. It fueled the power struggle to the point of her pushing him out. He got his way without her. Album, tour and Christine. Check to the Checkmate in a cesspool of a toxic relationship that's been fake for many many years.

[UnwindedDreams]

She wouldn't have enjoyed BuckVie. Lindsey and Christine vibes and having fun. Being told not to put vibrato on every damn harmony so it's consistent. Not being the boss.
She's a meglomaniac. She needs and craves attention. Especially with FM. It's ground zero for her. And the fact that they did an album and tour without her, drove her insane. It fueled the power struggle to the point of her pushing him out. He got his way without her. Album, tour and Christine. Check to the Checkmate in a cesspool of a toxic relationship that's been fake for many many years.
It's amazing how she was inducted in the Hall of Fame of Cleveland OH I think for her solo career visuals, maybe not the music, and at the induction Lindsey was in the video montage, as well as Crying in the Night, Lindsey's guitar opening of Rhiannon. She mentioned Lindsey by name in her speech and not Waddy or FM bandmates.
Dave Grohl introduced her as Lindsey Buckingham's girl at the Sound City Player shows. I thought Lindsey was useless and she did everything with no help from him?
Why does she bring him up so much?

[SteveMacD]

except, this is completely nonsensical and unproven speculation.

no-name-recognition BuckVie or LB played and filled the Beacon. if huge FM brand played Beacon they would charge an arm and a leg.
yep! they would definitely play arenas. and yes maybe not 3 nights in a row in some places.

i've seen tons of social media posts from people at FM shows in 2018 who clearly had no clue who is in the band but knew they were seeing FM and knew the songs.
It’s not nonsensical and completely unproven speculation. An entity called Fleetwood Mac playing the big Fleetwood Mac hits toured in 94-95. That band only got gigs opening for CSN or package tours with REO Speedwagon and Pat Benatar. At the time, Smashing Pumpkins had an alternative hit with “Landslide.”

Less than two years later, an entity called Fleetwood Mac with different people was on a massive arena tour playing the big Fleetwood Mac hits. People might not have had a clue as to who was in Fleetwood Mac, but they sure as hell knew who wasn’t in it.

That said, I agree the Rumours Fleetwood Mac minus Stevie could have played the Beacon and charged ridiculous prices. My observation is that people who go to places like the Beacon have a deeper connection to the music than the arena/stadium/large amphitheater goers. But you’re off your rocker if you think Fleetwood Mac is an arena band without Stevie.

that was behind the timing of Stevie's stunt. she was busy in 2017, yes. busy getting Mick and Azoff to side with her.
...
with Christine back, it appears Lindsey miscalculated and thought he would now have both Mick and Christine on his side.
I agree that Lindsey miscalculated, but I don’t believe that his firing was premeditated, at least not before the November tour negotiations.

big mistake, Stevie pulled big money managers!
She didn’t need to pull in Azoff. Lindsey burned that bridge all on his own.

[SteveMacD]

How do you know it was 'such a good experience with BuckVie'? She might have gotten miffed by Buck's control issues and was happy to be rid of him

In a 1995 AOL chat, Christine said that Dave Mason wouldn’t have been her first choice. When asked who her first choice would have been, she said Lindsey Buckingham. In 2018, it was clear that Christine didn’t like what happened and still said glowing things about Lindsey (which isn’t to say she didn’t like Mike Campbell and Neil Finn). Christine enjoyed working with Lindsey, but Mick and John are family.

[SteveMacD]

Stevie played BuckVie venues with Chris Isaak in 2007.
How is her status in 2007 relevant to her status 2017? I mean, she wasn’t a rock star and international sex symbol in 1967, but the epitome of both in 1977. Things change in ten years. Stevie did a tour in 2005 and a smallish tour in 2006, so there was a saturation of solo Stevie by 2007. The 24KG was the first Stevie Nicks solo tour in six years, the first since the AHS boost in her popularity, and was on the heels of Fleetwood Mac’s big reunion tour with Christine McVie. Sure, the Pretenders opened, but they’re not exactly an arena rock band.

[johnnystorms]

After he was fired, she said she had a great time working with him in 2017.

What are the control issues? Are you talking about him being a musical director and a producer?

I'm talking about 'you should change your verb tense' in Thrown Down, wear a cardigan on SYW tour, don't lift your mic off the stand or you'll look like a Vegas act,,, telling John how he should play bass, choosing to bang on a kleenex box over Mick's drumming. etc etc

[UnwindedDreams]

How is her status in 2007 relevant to her status 2017? I mean, she wasn’t a rock star and international sex symbol in 1967, but the epitome of both in 1977. Things change in ten years.

Are you staying Stevie was starting out her career again in 2007?
I don't understand why you mentioned 1967 to 1977. That's a red herring because it's a career beginning; Madonna wasn't a rock star and international sex symbol in 1979, but the epitome of both in 1984.

Madonna toured 2004, did live appearances in 2005, 2006, did a few live appearances in 07, had her most successful tour in 2008.

What does 1994-5 Fleetwood Mac have to do with a fantasy FM with no Stevie?
Couldn't FM no SN have AHS, Glee, and GYOW in tons of commercials taking them into Staples Center and Barclays Center? Charging $55-$150?
They could still book interviews on Ellen and Today Show. They could have TV commercials like this last go round did, playing Don't Stop, GYOW, Say You Love Me, and The Chain.

Please don't respond offensively. Thank you.

[UnwindedDreams]

I'm talking about 'you should change your verb tense' in Thrown Down, wear a cardigan on SYW tour, don't lift your mic off the stand or you'll look like a Vegas act,,, telling John how he should play bass, choosing to bang on a kleenex box over Mick's drumming. etc etc

Was that really a mean offering he made? Did he tell John how to play bass or was he playing bass and John told him you don't play any bass parts...I do

These are examples from decades ago. Would you recommend reading "Gold Dust Woman" by Stephen Davis if I wanted to find examples of Lindsey's control issues? Thank you.

[bombaysaffires]

the verb tense thing is total bull****. It's the kind of feedback a producer provides. It wasn't done meanly or nastily (which yes he at times had done in the past, esp. when they were breaking up and he was not happy about it, and so yes I get that might sensitize her to any feedback from him -- but then that's on her for projecting past **** onto present situations).

In the interim she had become a big solo star (though one who faded in the late 80s and the 90s and who should remember that is still possible) and that made her feel like she had the power to not have anyone around her critique her in any way. He does not buy into that mindset so much, and she hates it. (who is he to talk to me like that now that I'm a far bigger star than he is and he needs me more than I need him for my career).

From what various members and roadies, producers etc have said, Lindsey probably did overstep a bit in the beginning by telling John and Mick what and how to play to get the effect he desired on his songs, being used to being the boss in BN and not recognizing that at that point he had joined THEIR band not vice-versa. I don't think John needed bass playing lessons, and perhaps LB could have gotten the desired results better if he'd been more collaborative and less directive in his approach. John clearly let him know this. Remember, Chris has described LB in those days as moody, a bit mercurial, hard to get to know, a bit distant. Maybe a bit resentful (as he still thinks BN was on the verge of breaking thru at that point). He focused on what they gave up to doing FM and Stevie focused on what they gained. (which for her was some other people between her and LB). She's never going to interpret anything that happens between them free from their pasts. He seems more desirous of starting a new chapter.

[SteveMacD]

Are you staying Stevie was starting out her career again in 2007?
No. I was pretty clearly saying that her career was in a very different place in 2017 than where it was in 2007.

I don't understand why you mentioned 1967 to 1977. That's a red herring because it's a career beginning;
Not at all a red herring. There was a cogent, relevant point, namely that a lot can change in a career over the span of a decade. In 1967, Stevie was unknown. Ten years later, she was one of the most famous women in the world. In 2007, Stevie was touring with Chris Isaak. Ten years later, she was headlining an arena tour and Chris Isaak has fallen off the face of the Earth.

However, how Dave Grohl referred to Stevie is almost never relevant to any discussion and is the epitome of a red herring. Madonna, Cher, and Tina Turner are generally red herrings in the discussion of Fleetwood Mac. Who cares about them? They weren’t in Fleetwood Mac.

What does 1994-5 Fleetwood Mac have to do with a fantasy FM with no Stevie?
If people don’t know who is in Fleetwood Mac, that they’re going to shows because Fleetwood Mac is a massive brand, that they’re going to hear the big hits, then why would the 94-95 band be opening act/packaged tour material but a different lineup was selling out arenas two years later? I mean, if people don’t know who’s in the band and are only going for the songs, why would it matter who was in the band? But, apparently it did.

Please don't respond offensively. Thank you.
How you interpret the tone of my post isn’t my responsibility. There are no personal attacks in my post.

[sue]

No. I was pretty clearly saying that her career was in a very different place in 2017 than where it was in 2007.


Not at all a red herring. There was a cogent, relevant point, namely that a lot can change in a career over the span of a decade. In 1967, Stevie was unknown. Ten years later, she was one of the most famous women in the world. In 2007, Stevie was touring with Chris Isaak. Ten years later, she was headlining an arena tour and Chris Isaak has fallen off the face of the Earth.

However, how Dave Grohl referred to Stevie is almost never relevant to any discussion and is the epitome of a red herring. Madonna, Cher, and Tina Turner are generally red herrings in the discussion of Fleetwood Mac. Who cares about them? They weren’t in Fleetwood Mac.


If people don’t know who is in Fleetwood Mac, that they’re going to shows because Fleetwood Mac is a massive brand, that they’re going to hear the big hits, then why would the 94-95 band be opening act/packaged tour material but a different lineup was selling out arenas two years later? I mean, if people don’t know who’s in the band and are only going for the songs, why would it matter who was in the band? But, apparently it did.


How you interpret the tone of my post isn’t my responsibility. There are no personal attacks in my post.

I think you are a bit of a mischief maker, a stirrer.
And no never any personal attacks, that I can remember..

BUT, I always enjoy reading your many replies....and most of it makes a lot of sense.

[UnwindedDreams]

No. I was pretty clearly saying that her career was in a very different place in 2017 than where it was in 2007. But you use the words "pretty clearly" and that was mean. There's no need to be condescending to me when all I asked for was help to understand why 2007 was different than 2017. Because to me, Stevie was a legend in 2007 and was a legend in 2017. I don't know why you feel the need to be abusive.

And I'll share with you that my view is that Stevie's hitmaking resume didn't change from 2007 to 2017. 2001 was the last time she had a record that sold really well and got a lot of play on a cable music channel, VH1.

And if we're talking about a change in venues from 2007 to 2017, the 24 Tour did have a shared billing, just like the CV Tour did.
The Pretenders got an hour or so, which is the same time Chris Isaak got. Their name was printed on the ticket. They got heavy video mention in the tour commercials. I'll bet this will be pleasing to you: Lindsey solo, Mick solo, or John solo - all individuals who released solo music - could not fill those venues - except Lindsey who did fill the Sands Event Center that Stevie played on 24 Tour.

When Stevie did a Summer/Fall run of the 24 Tour alone, she played a State Fair, 2 nights at a picnic venue in a Chicago suburb, B/C/D Market facilities in Saint Charles, MO, Green Bay, and Youngstown, OH. I think Vanessa Carlton might've been the opening act.


If people donÂ’t know who is in Fleetwood Mac, that theyÂ’re going to shows because Fleetwood Mac is a massive brand, that theyÂ’re going to hear the big hits, then why would the 94-95 band be opening act/packaged tour material but a different lineup was selling out arenas two years later?

I think one answer would be promotion. Was 94/95 marketed as aggressively as the 97 tour?
But to borrow your position that Stevie's selling power changed from 2007-2017 because of AHS and whatever else you mentioned. Couldn't FM ticket sales benefit from the AHS, Glee, Guitar Hero, GYOW in commercials even without Stevie in the lineup?

[elle]

o borrow your position that Stevie's selling power changed from 2007-2017 because of AHS and whatever else you mentioned. Couldn't FM ticket sales benefit from the AHS, Glee, Guitar Hero, GYOW in commercials even without Stevie in the lineup?

yes. Stevie's selling power did change in a decade, mainly because of AHS. there is always a difference from decade to decade and sometimes even from year to year.

if Lindsey released OOTC soon after he left FM and before the grunge era started, that record would have had a very different commercial path. and FM in the era of punk (Tusk time) was already an uncool establishment dinosaur and viewed differently than in the era of Rumours. years that pass and events that happen in between, some that band members have a hand in and others that are completely out of their control (punk, grunge) all influence commerciality.

i was watching a Deep Purple doc on AXS the other day, and Ritchie Blackmore was discussing a difference between popular, commercial, good musicianship, and being able to fit in the popular culture of the moment. i wish i remember how he expressed it, it was interesting.

considering the difference in just 10 years (2007-2017), just think how both SN's and Fleetwood Mac's brand has changed since 1994 - 2020, 26 years?
and imagine how it changed since their tiktok newfound fame? they all sold their publishing (Mick recording rights) for tons of money since then.

[soul_drifter333]

I think you are a bit of a mischief maker, a stirrer.
And no never any personal attacks, that I can remember..

BUT, I always enjoy reading your many replies....and most of it makes a lot of sense.

Ding, Ding give the lady a prize for the correct answer. :wavey::wavey:

[jbrownsjr]

Anybody know when B/N will be released on CD? :laugh:

[sue]

Anybody know when B/N will be released on CD? :laugh:

Hahaha.....I almost spat my wine out then...
Er, never...
I have the vinyl, my husband bought it for me a long, long time ago..
I never play it (the turntables up the shoot) but I look at it fondly, now and then..

[HomerMcvie]

Anybody know when B/N will be released on CD? :laugh:

I have it on CD. :lol:

[soul_drifter333]

Anybody know when B/N will be released on CD? :laugh:

As soon as Lindsey and Stevie can get along long enough....Oh, who am I kidding? :rolleyes:

[SteveMacD]

But you use the words "pretty clearly" and that was mean. There's no need to be condescending to me when all I asked for was help to understand why 2007 was different than 2017. Because to me, Stevie was a legend in 2007 and was a legend in 2017. I don't know why you feel the need to be abusive.
Again, how you interpret the tone of my posts isn’t my responsibility. There was no personal attack and no harassing comment. I’m pretty sure people are tiring of your constant stream of character assassinations.

And I'll share with you that my view is that Stevie's hitmaking resume didn't change from 2007 to 2017.
Who said anything about her hitmaking resume? Her boost in popularity had little to do with her music.

I'll bet this will be pleasing to you: Lindsey solo, Mick solo, or John solo - all individuals who released solo music - could not fill those venues
Why would that be pleasing to me? Why does it matter? In my dream world, John McVie would have a side band that was almost as big as Fleetwood Mac. Kind of like Mike & The Mechanics. But, John would rather be sailing.

I think one answer would be promotion. Was 94/95 marketed as aggressively as the 97 tour?
Of course not. Nobody was going to sink a lot of money promoting a version of Fleetwood Mac that didn’t have Stevie Nicks, Christine McVie, and Lindsey Buckingham. Also, they didn’t have an album out, since “Time” was released six weeks after their last tour date. AND, the “Live At The BBC” set, which was released a month before “Time” got considerably more promotion than “Time” got.

[SteveMacD]

As soon as Lindsey and Stevie can get along long enough....Oh, who am I kidding? :rolleyes:

Even a polar vortex in Hell probably wouldn’t do it.

[jbrownsjr]

Even a polar vortex in Hell probably wouldn’t do it.

I always look at the things we agree on, Steve.. :laugh::wavey:

[UnwindedDreams]

Again, how you interpret the tone of my posts isn’t my responsibility.

If you don't think your inclusion of the words "pretty clearly" was condescending then that explains how you feel about sharing the planet with fellow persons. I'm not violating any laws by defending myself against your condescending replies. You've said I'm idiotic and juvenile. Those are evil comments.

You may not be responsible for tone, but you are responsible for bullying and abuse.

You opened up all of this when you started trolling my posts when I asked why Stevie didn't recommend playing Lindsey's Tango songs in 2018. My question was in response to an interview Stevie did with the 1975. You responded "Who cares?" That's not right and has no place in a message board.

You're going around trying to crush any criticism of the 2018-2019 tour. Let people be.

[SteveMacD]

You're going around trying to crush any criticism of the 2018-2019 tour. Let people be.
I thought discussing Fleetwood Mac on a Fleetwood Mac message board was allowed.

[Feather Blade]

I thought discussing Fleetwood Mac on a Fleetwood Mac message board was allowed.

Indeed. I always appreciate reading your comments. You have a breadth of knowledge about this band that few possess and I always feel like I learned something.

[johnnystorms]

If you don't think your inclusion of the words "pretty clearly" was condescending then that explains how you feel about sharing the planet with fellow persons. I'm not violating any laws by defending myself against your condescending replies. You've said I'm idiotic and juvenile. Those are evil comments.

You may not be responsible for tone, but you are responsible for bullying and abuse.

You opened up all of this when you started trolling my posts when I asked why Stevie didn't recommend playing Lindsey's Tango songs in 2018. My question was in response to an interview Stevie did with the 1975. You responded "Who cares?" That's not right and has no place in a message board.

You're going around trying to crush any criticism of the 2018-2019 tour. Let people be.
calm down. please. 'idiotic and juvenile' are not 'evil' criticisms.

[UnwindedDreams]

calm down. please. 'idiotic and juvenile' are not 'evil' criticisms.

I've seen you be disrespectful to persons who speak positively about Lindsey. You've also been hostile to me.
Perhaps you think I'm idiotic because I think calling someone that is evil. How collegial of you

[jbrownsjr]

Everyone take it down a notch. It's fine to disagree. And even Homie and I throw jabs at each other. But you guys need to re-boot and live to debate another day.

We're all adults and the "he said she said" gets old. Move on.. Everybody (Stevie voice).
Debates are fun and sometimes get out of hand... reel it in Please. Or, the other moderators will throw this thread out. And it's a great thread.

Oh and Homer, you suck for hating Oh Daddy!!! lolololol

[HomerMcvie]

Everyone take it down a notch. It's fine to disagree. And even Homie and I throw jabs at each other.

Oh and Homer, you suck for hating Oh Daddy!!! lolololol

Yeah, but I've lost my crown as the most hated Ledgie. I'm okay with that.

I don't hate Oh Daddy, but it's Snoozeville. Daddy needs a beat!

[SteveMacD]

Oh and Homer, you suck for hating Oh Daddy!!! lolololol

Well, that and being a misogynist. :D

I wonder how gldstwmn is these days.

[HomerMcvie]

Well, that and being a misogynist. :D

I wonder how gldstwmn is these days.

Yep. Everyone knows that disliking $tevie equates with being a misogynist. :p

Hopefully six feet under. :lol:

[jbrownsjr]

Well, that and being a misogynist. :D

I wonder how gldstwmn is these days.

Oh God please.... It's usually fun around here!! :eek:

[jmn3]

I wonder how gldstwmn is these days.

Oh my....just the thought made me shudder.

[jbrownsjr]

Oh my....just the thought made me shudder.

Steve had me grow hair!! Then it stood up.

[BigAl84]

Regarding the whole debate about the eb and flow of Stevie's solo career...one thing is for sure.

As said in her own behind the music episode, her solo career was tanked by 1996.

The only reason she bounced back was due to The Dance tour, end of story.

The Enchanted Box set and tour NEVER would of happened without that tour happening first.

It would be interesting to think about where her career would be now if the 1997 reunion hadn't happened.

[SteveMacD]

Regarding the whole debate about the eb and flow of Stevie's solo career...one thing is for sure.

As said in her own behind the music episode, her solo career was tanked by 1996.

The only reason she bounced back was due to The Dance tour, end of story.

The Enchanted Box set and tour NEVER would of happened without that tour happening first.

It would be interesting to think about where her career would be now if the 1997 reunion hadn't happened.

Considering Smashing Pumpkins had a minor alternative hit with “Landslide” in 1994 and Hole had a hit with “Gold Dust Woman” in 1996, all Stevie really needed was to quit smoking, drop some weight, get a makeover, and start working with younger, relevant musicians like Dave Grohl. She could still have assumed the godmotherly rock survivor with the scars to prove it persona that she took on in 1997. Maybe have a Stevie Nicks comeback special on MTV and Clear Channel. I doubt it would have had the same impact, but she could have been brought back to viability without Fleetwood Mac.

[jbrownsjr]

Regarding the whole debate about the eb and flow of Stevie's solo career...one thing is for sure.
As said in her own behind the music episode, her solo career was tanked by 1996.
The only reason she bounced back was due to The Dance tour, end of story.
The Enchanted Box set and tour NEVER would of happened without that tour happening first.
It would be interesting to think about where her career would be now if the 1997 reunion hadn't happened.

She's had the luxury of being saved so many times. What's worse is that she thinks she's done it all on her own. Oh wait, Tom helped her.

[HomerMcvie]

She's had the luxury of being saved so many times. What's worse is that she thinks she's done it all on her own. Oh wait, Tom helped her.
If $he'd been a fat ugly girl in 1975, $he'd be lucky to even be a footnote in music history.

No one ever wrote a song, "Sit on my face, Mama Cass".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hjjg0WCWELU

[johnnystorms]

Considering Smashing Pumpkins had a minor alternative hit with “Landslide” in 1994 and Hole had a hit with “Gold Dust Woman” in 1996, all Stevie really needed was to quit smoking, drop some weight, get a makeover, and start working with younger, relevant musicians like Dave Grohl. She could still have assumed the godmotherly rock survivor with the scars to prove it persona that she took on in 1997. Maybe have a Stevie Nicks comeback special on MTV and Clear Channel. I doubt it would have had the same impact, but she could have been brought back to viability without Fleetwood Mac.

Thank you. And the other 4 would have been far LESS viable

[SteveMacD]

Thank you. And the other 4 would have been far LESS viable

They would have been less viable without Stevie, but they would have been way more viable compared to what Fleetwood Mac had become. Christine and Lindsey had enough songs between them that they could have still had a viable, credible set without Stevie. However, none would have had anything close to The Dance.

[BigAl84]

Considering Smashing Pumpkins had a minor alternative hit with “Landslide” in 1994 and Hole had a hit with “Gold Dust Woman” in 1996, all Stevie really needed was to quit smoking, drop some weight, get a makeover, and start working with younger, relevant musicians like Dave Grohl. She could still have assumed the godmotherly rock survivor with the scars to prove it persona that she took on in 1997. Maybe have a Stevie Nicks comeback special on MTV and Clear Channel. I doubt it would have had the same impact, but she could have been brought back to viability without Fleetwood Mac.

I never said she wasn't capable of some kind of comeback on her own.

My point was, the immediate bounce that she got from the Dance Tour most likely wouldn't of happened in the same way if she had to do it on her own.

And quite frankly, she had already been trying to quit smoking, drop some weight, get a makeover on and off between 1990-1994...and the comeback still hadn't happened.

Just an observation.

[BigAl84]

Thank you. And the other 4 would have been far LESS viable

It's a two way street. She wasn't exactly viable at the time of the dance reunion. People somehow forget that. She was playing on a stage that was a converted semi truck bed in st pete beach the year before. Not exactly killing it at the local amphitheatre.

[UnwindedDreams]

She's had the luxury of being saved so many times. What's worse is that she thinks she's done it all on her own. Oh wait, Tom helped her.

Stevie the most out of the five most likely benefitted the most from the instrumentation of the band.
That Fender Rhodes repetition needs that band play. Welcome to the Room with the percussion and tropical guitar. If there was a producer who thought to have those elements come together, God bless that person.

[SteveMacD]

My point was, the immediate bounce that she got from the Dance Tour most likely wouldn't of happened in the same way if she had to do it on her own.
And I agree with that point.

And quite frankly, she had already been trying to quit smoking, drop some weight, get a makeover on and off between 1990-1994...and the comeback still hadn't happened.
She only got off Klonopin in 1993 or so and she was still pretty bloated and big haired in 1994, so the comeback hadn’t really started. She was ready to quit altogether until she lost weight after the 1994 tour.

However, the Smashing Pumpkins and Hole covering her songs created a renewed interest in Stevie. So, the time was right for her image makeover.

[SteveMacD]

She's had the luxury of being saved so many times. What's worse is that she thinks she's done it all on her own. Oh wait, Tom helped her.

Stevie needed the reunion the least of the lot. Remember, her rock bottom still peaked at #45, the same as Go Insane.

While the other four could have done something moderately successful without Stevie, Christine was clearly doing the reunion as her grand sendoff, so there would be no way to follow it up (not that Lindsey did, anyway). If forced to be a band without either of the ladies, the three guys would have become a theater/package tour band. So, in that sense, Stevie has saved them, too. It’s a mutually beneficial relationship.

[elle]

It's a two way street. She wasn't exactly viable at the time of the dance reunion. People somehow forget that. She was playing on a stage that was a converted semi truck bed in st pete beach the year before. Not exactly killing it at the local amphitheatre.

and that was after Smashing Pumpkins and Hole covers.

btw i still think Hole cover of GDW is the best version of that song. (sorry LB and glass breaking, still not as good as Hole!)

[SteveMacD]

and that was after Smashing Pumpkins and Hole covers.

She only did three shows in 1996. One was a private show and the other two were festivals, which often pay more than concerts. It’s not like those were tour dates.

[BigAl84]

Ok...I was a kid at the time and I remember both Hole and Smashing Pumpkins being a really big deal. However, I don’t ever recall hearing about their Fleetwood Mac covers AT ALL until well into the dance era.

Is it possible we’re over inflating the impact of those two covers as some sort of spark that began an inevitable comeback?

I call bullsh*t. That’s just my opinion lol.

[BigAl84]

She only did three shows in 1996. One was a private show and the other two were festivals, which often pay more than concerts. It’s not like those were tour dates.

Yeah exactly. She wasn’t even able to book a full tour in 1996. Bingo.

[jbrownsjr]

Stevie needed the reunion the least of the lot. Remember, her rock bottom still peaked at #45, the same as Go Insane.

While the other four could have done something moderately successful without Stevie, Christine was clearly doing the reunion as her grand sendoff, so there would be no way to follow it up (not that Lindsey did, anyway). If forced to be a band without either of the ladies, the three guys would have become a theater/package tour band. So, in that sense, Stevie has saved them, too. It’s a mutually beneficial relationship.

I saw her on the Time Space tour. I had 3rd row and she looked right into my face and I saw a true ghost in the fog. She was barely in there. It made me sad. I agree that it was mutual benefits for all involved. Without her, they have to be really creative to continue. Thank goodness for Christine's hits.

[BigAl84]

Stevie needed the reunion the least of the lot. Remember, her rock bottom still peaked at #45, the same as Go Insane.

While the other four could have done something moderately successful without Stevie, Christine was clearly doing the reunion as her grand sendoff, so there would be no way to follow it up (not that Lindsey did, anyway). If forced to be a band without either of the ladies, the three guys would have become a theater/package tour band. So, in that sense, Stevie has saved them, too. It’s a mutually beneficial relationship.

Classic Steve playbook. The old Lindsey vs Stevie sales comparison. We’re talking about Stevie, but let’s drag Lindsey into this to distract from what we’re actually talking about. Predictable.

[BigAl84]

It’s hilarious that people cannot admit that the reunion saved her a$$ without folks snapping back like a five year old screaming “but he started it!!!!” By providing the old “they would be nothing without her” argument which then devolves into sales comparisons and the same tired arguments of worshippers.

It’s not rocket science, yes the darn reunion tour helped them all. It certainly helped some more than others...but that has somehow become something that nobody likes to admit without taking pot shots at other band members.

[BigAl84]

Stevie needed the reunion the least of the lot. Remember, her rock bottom still peaked at #45, the same as Go Insane.

While the other four could have done something moderately successful without Stevie, Christine was clearly doing the reunion as her grand sendoff, so there would be no way to follow it up (not that Lindsey did, anyway). If forced to be a band without either of the ladies, the three guys would have become a theater/package tour band. So, in that sense, Stevie has saved them, too. It’s a mutually beneficial relationship.

I'm curious why we haven't talked about Christine's solo work and how it charted compared to Stevie, if we're going to play the "let's pit solo careers against each other to prove one is superior" game...despite the fact that nobody is trying to say one is more superior than the other.

Oh wait, Christine gets the golden pass. Again.

And that is one heck of a mental leap, by the way. Stevie needed the reunion less because her lowest selling single charted about the same as Lindsey's?? Really...

[SteveMacD]

Ok...I was a kid at the time and I remember both Hole and Smashing Pumpkins being a really big deal. However, I don’t ever recall hearing about their Fleetwood Mac covers AT ALL until well into the dance era.
I was in college, paying attention to alternative rock and Fleetwood Mac, and those songs were very popular. I’d hear them on the alternative station all the time, especially Gold Dust Woman. Why do you think they made a point of showing Courtney Love after they performed it on The Dance?

Is it possible we’re over inflating the impact of those two covers as some sort of spark that began an inevitable comeback?
Really? Two of the biggest bands of that era cover Fleetwood Mac and people didn’t notice? Even Lindsey said that it was like Fleetwood Mac was suddenly not the enemy, or something to that effect.

Yeah exactly. She wasn’t even able to book a full tour in 1996. Bingo.
I was under the impression she was taking a hiatus, but Stevie probably got $100,000 to play 6-8 songs. Not bad for not having an album out and nothing new to promote beyond a song from a soundtrack. Anyway, the momentum for a Fleetwood Mac reunion was in full force. After “Twisted” and the Kentucky Derby thing, it seemed inevitable.

Classic Steve playbook. The old Lindsey vs Stevie sales comparison. We’re talking about Stevie, but let’s drag Lindsey into this to distract from what we’re actually talking about. Predictable.
Not a jab against Lindsey. Just pointing out that nobody says his career was in the tank after Go Insane, which like Street Angel, peaked at #45. Nobody says TITN saved his ass.

I'm curious why we haven't talked about Christine's solo work and how it charted compared to Stevie, if we're going to play the "let's pit solo careers against each other to prove one is superior" game...despite the fact that nobody is trying to say one is more superior than the other.

Oh wait, Christine gets the golden pass. Again.
Christine didn’t aspire to be a solo artist. The label pressured her into it, Fleetwood Mac had nothing on the horizon, and she largely had Todd Sharp do the heavy lifting. That said, it peaked at #26 and had a Top 10 single.

Stevie had an actual solo career in which she had more hit singles than in Fleetwood Mac. Lindsey actually quit Fleetwood Mac to become a solo artist. Their solo work is very important to them. Christine couldn’t have cared less. She’d much rather just be in Fleetwood Mac.

Christine did The Dance as her swan song, not to help relaunch her career. She wanted to go out on a high note, especially after a turbulent decade. The one solo album she made after leaving was a one-off she did with her nephew and did almost no promotion for it. Aside from that, she retired.

[SteveMacD]

I saw her on the Time Space tour. I had 3rd row and she looked right into my face and I saw a true ghost in the fog. She was barely in there. It made me sad.
I didn’t see that tour, but the BTM tour, and it was the same kind of vibe for me. I was thrilled when she left and they brought on Bekka Bramlett.

I agree that it was mutual benefits for all involved. Without her, they have to be really creative to continue. Thank goodness for Christine's hits.
They could have had a set full of hits without her that would have been moderately successful. I think people would have been pleasantly surprised.

[SteveMacD]

It’s hilarious that people cannot admit that the reunion saved her a$$ without folks snapping back like a five year old screaming “but he started it!!!!” By providing the old “they would be nothing without her” argument which then devolves into sales comparisons and the same tired arguments of worshippers.

It’s not rocket science, yes the darn reunion tour helped them all. It certainly helped some more than others...but that has somehow become something that nobody likes to admit without taking pot shots at other band members.
Reality check: Out of the Cradle peaked at #128, Street Angel #45, Time didn’t crack the Top 200, and the two big alternative rock covers were of Stevie songs. Only one member of the band was still remotely viable.

It’s not snapping back, it’s putting things into perspective. It’s pointing out your overstatement with, you know, facts.