Sun King and Albatross [Archive]

michelej1

08-24-2009, 04:34 PM

[On the musicbyday site they are going through all the Beatles albums and compiling quotes of what was said about each song by the band members. This was included for Sun King]

http://www.musicbyday.com/abbey-road-the-beatles-in-their-own-words/574/

“Sun King”

Lennon: When we came to sing it, to make them different we started joking, saying ‘cuando para mucho’. We just made it up. Paul knew a few Spanish words from school, so we just strung any Spanish words that sounded vaguely like something. And of course we got ‘chicka ferdi’ - that’s a Liverpool expression; it doesn’t mean anything, just like ‘ha ha ha’. One we missed: we could have had ‘para noia’, but we forgot all about it. We used to call ourselves Los Para Noias.

Harrison: At the time, Albatross was out, with all the reverb on guitar. So we said, ‘Let’s be Fleetwood Mac doing Albatross, just to get going.’ It never really sounded like Fleetwood Mac… but that was the point of origin.

chiliD

08-24-2009, 05:21 PM

[On the musicbyday site they are going through all the Beatles albums and compiling quotes of what was said about each song by the band members. This was included for Sun King]

Harrison: At the time, Albatross was out, with all the reverb on guitar. So we said, ‘Let’s be Fleetwood Mac doing Albatross, just to get going.’ It never really sounded like Fleetwood Mac… but that was the point of origin.

Well, obviously George would think it didn't sound like Fleetwood Mac, he didn't think "My Sweet Lord" sounded like the Shirelles' "He's So Fine" either! :lol: But, that cost him a bundle in royalties & court costs.

Play 'em back to back ("Sun King" & "Albatross" that is)...they're pretty damned close for those first 8 bars or so.

triimoral

08-24-2009, 10:22 PM

Do you see any similarities in Jimi's "Waterfall"?

sharksfan2000

08-25-2009, 12:24 AM

Harrison: At the time, Albatross was out, with all the reverb on guitar. So we said, ‘Let’s be Fleetwood Mac doing Albatross, just to get going.’ It never really sounded like Fleetwood Mac… but that was the point of origin.
Yeah, this is a pretty well-known quote from Harrison regarding the Sun King - Albatross connection.

Do you see any similarities in Jimi's "Waterfall"?
Never thought about any similarities between those two (assume you mean Hendrix's "May This Be Love"), and don't really hear very much similarity myself. Do you think Peter Green was influenced by that track when he wrote "Albatross"? Don't know that he's ever mentioned anything like that when he's talked about writing it.

slipkid

08-25-2009, 12:48 PM

Yeah, this is a pretty well-known quote from Harrison regarding the Sun King - Albatross connection.

Never thought about any similarities between those two (assume you mean Hendrix's "May This Be Love"), and don't really hear very much similarity myself. Do you think Peter Green was influenced by that track when he wrote "Albatross"? Don't know that he's ever mentioned anything like that when he's talked about writing it.

Peter has mentioned the Santo and Johnny song "Sleepwalk" was the inspiration for 'Albatross'. It's the Hawaiian theme. If you've ever seen the end of "La Bamba" when Ritchie Valens' family finds out that he was killed, "Sleepwalk" is the song playing in the background.

sharksfan2000

08-25-2009, 01:09 PM

Peter has mentioned the Santo and Johnny song "Sleepwalk" was the inspiration for 'Albatross'. It's the Hawaiian theme. If you've ever seen the end of "La Bamba" when Ritchie Valens' family finds out that he was killed, "Sleepwalk" is the song playing in the background.
That's right, slipkid - I've read that Peter credited "Sleepwalk" as one of the inspirations for "Albatross", and it's easy to understand why. But I don't believe I've ever read that he spoke of any other specific songs as having inspired it. As mentioned, I don't hear much similarity with "May This Be Love" but that's just me.

Wouter Vuijk

08-25-2009, 01:36 PM

As mentioned, I don't hear much similarity with "May This Be Love" but that's just me.

Don't worry, me too.
However, I do hear some resemblance of May This Be Love by Jimi Hendrix (after 2.00 minutes) with Little Dreamer by Peter Green.

jeremy spencer

08-25-2009, 06:35 PM

...yes, they were inspired by Albatross for Sun King.
We, the FM, were off to a British gig one night in 69 (I think) and we were listening to a radio interview with John Lennon where the dj was quizzing him about every track on Abbey Road, after playing it.
They came to Sun King, and it seemed that the dj was miffed that the Beatles (having a rep for exceptional originality!) would stoop to 'copy' Albatross like that! John said: "So what? We like Fleetwood Mac, and that's a good tune."
Hope that's of interest.
Jeremy.

By the way, I know that George openly acknowleged that he took the tune of 'My Sweet Lord' from 'He's So Fine', and willingly paid the compensation. Sad that a story like that gets lost in favour of sensationalism.

aleuzzi

08-25-2009, 07:11 PM

I always thought the McVie-Nicks-Buckingham vocal mix could have done wonders with the harmonies on Sun King, thereby making it an FM-inspired song in more than one sense.

slipkid

08-25-2009, 09:40 PM

I know Mac is slang for raincoat in England, but I always thought Lennon's makeshift band name had a double meaning, as in a tip of the hat to Fleetwood Mac.

For those that don't know John Lennon put together an all-star band composed of Eric Clapton on guitar, Mitch Mitchell on drums, and Keith Richards on bass. They played at the Rolling Stones Rock and Roll Circus which was filmed 12/68. The song they performed was "Yer Blues" from the Beatles 'White Album'. After Jeremy's recollections on what Lennon said I thought it was appropriate.

chiliD

08-26-2009, 02:28 AM

By the way, I know that George openly acknowleged that he took the tune of 'My Sweet Lord' from 'He's So Fine', and willingly paid the compensation. Sad that a story like that gets lost in favour of sensationalism.

I was just being overly facetious with my comment about George. (been in a kind of goofy mood like that most of the day today) Apologies, if I offended.

doodyhead

08-26-2009, 02:46 AM

lt think this is a link to "The Dirty Mac"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAjdRHzH4M8

doodyhead

Wouter Vuijk

08-26-2009, 08:47 AM

Play 'em back to back ("Sun King" & "Albatross" that is)...they're pretty damned close for those first 8 bars or so.

Then after you did that, play "Sun King" and "Little Dreamer", especially the beginnings, forget the lyrics. Now there's a resemblance....

sharksfan2000

08-26-2009, 11:13 AM

jeremy spencer

08-26-2009, 08:16 PM

Jeremy, if you're still following this discussion, I have a question. Were you or any of the other Fleetwood Mac members fans of Jimi Hendrix? I'm just curious....I hear very little of his influence on any of the band's music (maybe some in Peter's "Fast Talkin' Woman Blues", possibly in "Underway") but of course that doesn't really mean that any of you were or were not fans. I've read that Peter once jammed with Jimi at a club but unfortunately it was not recorded.

With the exception of 'Hey Joe', 'The Wind Cries Mary' and 'Little Wing', I personally wasn't a fan of Hendrix.
Pete told me that he had modelled the 'Curly' instrumental, which he recorded while with Mayall, after Hendrix. I know that Pete did not like the way he played blues, however.
Other than that I don't remember us talking too much about him. Remember, we were die-hard Chicago blues purists at the time!

jeremy spencer

08-26-2009, 08:19 PM

I was just being overly facetious with my comment about George. (been in a kind of goofy mood like that most of the day today) Apologies, if I offended.

I wasn't poking at you, just the story. Not your fault!

sharksfan2000

08-26-2009, 11:18 PM

With the exception of 'Hey Joe', 'The Wind Cries Mary' and 'Little Wing', I personally wasn't a fan of Hendrix.
Pete told me that he had modelled the 'Curly' instrumental, which he recorded while with Mayall, after Hendrix. I know that Pete did not like the way he played blues, however.
Other than that I don't remember us talking too much about him. Remember, we were die-hard Chicago blues purists at the time!
Thanks for your comments, Jeremy! I'd forgotten about "Curly" - excellent point about the Hendrix influence there. It's wonderful to hear things first-hand from you. Your participation on the board here gives us all such an amazing insight into those days 40 years ago - you have a great memory!

slipkid

08-27-2009, 08:45 AM

I always thought "Curly" was influenced by Jeff Beck, that's interesting.

Sharksfan mentioned "Fast Talking Woman Blues" as a possible Hendrix influence. I think that song is tied directly to Texas blues, not Hendrix. That style of blues would be championed ten or so years later from a guitarist born in Dallas.

chiliD

08-27-2009, 11:27 AM

... Jimi Hendrix? ...I hear very little of his influence on any of the band's music

If anything, I hear the influence going the other direction. Jimi's tune "Pali Gap" bears a striking resemblance to "Underway" (the shortened verson on Then Play On). The jam from Woodstock that segue's into "Purple Haze" sounds a whole lot like something Peter would've done at the time.

jeremy spencer

08-27-2009, 03:41 PM

doodyhead

08-27-2009, 04:33 PM

...Pete would never have admitted that, he was definitely not a JB fan!!
Thanks jeremy,

I had always wondered about that. Beck had been around all over the place. My impression was that he was a fabulous musician who did not work from feeling. He could play anything he heard but worked from the outside in, if that makes any sense.
My guess Peter would not have cared too much for Alvin Lee either.

doodyhead

mzero

08-27-2009, 06:27 PM

Thanks jeremy,

... who did not work from feeling. He could play anything he heard but worked from the outside in, if that makes any sense....
doodyhead

ha! double exclamation points, thanks very much jeremy. that does makes perfect sense vinnie. not short on technique but quite short on soul. verdict: not an effective blues guitarist.

i can imagine that beck's 70's jazz fusion work was more unappealing to pete than beck's earlier blues and r&b based approach

slipkid

08-28-2009, 12:46 AM

Thanks jeremy,

I had always wondered about that. Beck had been around all over the place. My impression was that he was a fabulous musician who did not work from feeling. He could play anything he heard but worked from the outside in, if that makes any sense.
My guess Peter would not have cared too much for Alvin Lee either.

doodyhead

Alvin Lee, is a great example of no feel. I think he was the first of the hundred notes as fast as you can in one bar sect. Does "Beck's Bolero" lack feel? I guess it's not in Peter Green's league. Beck was better than Jimmy Page IMO because he had better technique. Jimmy Page had feel but couldn't pull it off, so his solos would end up sloppy. What about Leslie West?

dino

08-28-2009, 06:45 AM

If anything, I hear the influence going the other direction. Jimi's tune "Pali Gap" bears a striking resemblance to "Underway" (the shortened verson on Then Play On). The jam from Woodstock that segue's into "Purple Haze" sounds a whole lot like something Peter would've done at the time.

Interesting point, though I don't really hear any similiarities. Never heard any of the British players do the "chordal" soloing Jimi does in those songs. He smoked all of them on rhythm guitar. Still, "Underway" has an "aquatic" theme, and "Pali Gap" has a watery tone from the Univibe. If you listen to "Drifting" from the same period, Hendrix tried to get what he called "sea sounds". And he did play the "Oh Well" riff in concert several times.