Let's talk about... TROUBLE IN SHANGRI-LA

[daniellaaarisen]

I initially just had a question about this song but I figured I might as well make it a "let's talk about..." thread.

I've always appreciated this song on a writer's level. I want to know approximately when she wrote it.

I think it is lyrically one of Stevie's best pieces (potentially) written within the past 15ish years, including "Love Is" and "Fall From Grace". "Sweet Girl" and "Illume" would both be on that list too, but I have reservations with both. These are not necessarily my favorites that have been released in this time frame, but many others were written in the 70s and 80s.

As a writer, I try to monitor Stevie's changes as a poet throughout the years so I can find common trends and all of that stuff.




Take a stab at the meaning and the time period!

[Dodfather]

I initially just had a question about this song but I figured I might as well make it a "let's talk about..." thread.

I've always appreciated this song on a writer's level. I want to know approximately when she wrote it.

I think it is lyrically one of Stevie's best pieces (potentially) written within the past 15ish years, including "Love Is" and "Fall From Grace". "Sweet Girl" and "Illume" would both be on that list too, but I have reservations with both. These are not necessarily my favorites that have been released in this time frame, but many others were written in the 70s and 80s.

As a writer, I try to monitor Stevie's changes as a poet throughout the years so I can find common trends and all of that stuff.




Take a stab at the meaning and the time period!

Stevie has discussed this song many times.

Shangri-La means paradise in this song and Trouble refers to the danger and pressure of keeping it once you've got it. To use fame as an example, what happens when you get everything you desire in terms of fame and then you have to keep up the success? You start to worry about it, coke creeps in to keep your energy level up and because it's expected of you...Tusk is made as a reaction against the crazy success of Rumours etc...

Or in a relationship, things are perfect but the little things start to become big and threaten it, perhaps out of fear or something... I can definitely relate to this, having just gone through a break up.

"Show me the way back to the sea" I always took to mean that she wants to find her way back to that calm place things started from, if the sea can be described as calm!

"You can consume all the beauty in the room. I know you can, I've seen you do it": I always thought that these lines were about whatever force or fear intrudes on whatever paradise you found. It takes the beauty away from the situation and that she's speaking from previous experience.

In terms of when it was written, I think it was around 1998/9. Stevie has said that she had dinner with Tom Petty and because she was feeling really down about writing and music in general she asked him to help her write songs for her next album. He told her she didn't need help and that she had to snap out of this because she gave up a lot for the lifestyle. Stevie then says that this shocked her out of her sllump and she went straight home and wrote Trouble In Shangri-La. The conversation also directly inspired That Made Me Stronger.

Check out Stevie's appearance on Rose O'Donnell's show where she talks all about this. There's a good quality version on youtube.

[daniellaaarisen]

I have a pretty acute understanding of the Trouble in Shangri-La concept and I know that she wanted that theme to carry through all the tracks on the album. Whenever she's spoken about the song, its been in a very general sense and I think there's just a lot more to it than that. I feel like she ends up discussing the final revelation of the song much more than the contents inside.

I think the first 2 verses are more directly about a relationship. From "you can consume..." on, she gets more and more broad in her absolutely gorgeous description of what it feels like to really lose Shangri-La after becoming so comfortable within it. The "him" that she remembers dissapates. With the way it was written, Stevie kinda emphasises the realization that paradise isn't some static tangible state nor state of mind. We are thrusted into a "whirlwind" in the bridge, both through her writing and the buildup in the song. To me, it's about the journey of discovering Shangri-La's disappointing nature.

I donno, I just think this song is so cool to dissect. Obviously it wasn't as complex as many people make it, definitely including myself... but I adore the concept and I think that the descriptions she gave to the press don't do it justice.

[daniellaaarisen]

PS. This Rosie interview is absolutely hilarious hahahahahahaha

[priestofnothing]

I've always appreciated this song on a writer's level. I want to know approximately when she wrote it.


Stevie has said in several interviews that the song TISL was written during the last few months of the OJ Simpson trial which ended in October 1995.

[jannieC]

Stevie has said in several interviews that the song TISL was written during the last few months of the OJ Simpson trial which ended in October 1995.

:nod: I was just about to say that I remember this, too.

[FMlex]

I loveeeee TISL, except I find myself loving the demo a tad bit more than the album version (even though I really like how the one that made it on the album was produced).

TISL Demo:
http://www.sendspace.com/file/dz79ho

[petep9000]

These were my thoughts on TISL, from last December...

http://planet-john.blogspot.com/2008/12/stevie-nicks-reflection-of-day-vol-6.html

[David]

These were my thoughts on TISL, from last December...

http://planet-john.blogspot.com/2008/12/stevie-nicks-reflection-of-day-vol-6.htmlI'll have to read that when I get back into town, J.

I think the track has a good groove & vocal, but I don't believe a word of it. It sounds as if Stevie were constructing something, like a fabricated group of emotions. Some people say it's very dramatic -- it's histrionic, all right. But I just don't feel that any of it is genuine. So many Stevie fanaticals love her because of her honesty, but more of her songs than not seem like poses to me.

To me, you can get away with posing & emotional superficiality if you're an excellent technician -- Elvis Costello showed me that on the "Imperial Bedroom" album. But Stevie combines her phoniness with ... "minimal technique" would be putting it best; & unless there's a powerhouse melody or vocal (like GYPSY or WILD HEART), I'm not into it.

[Black_Moon]

The line 'I make accomodations for you' - I get the feeling this is about Joe Walsh.

[DashingDan]

My friend insists that this song predicted the 9/11 attacks.

[GypsyBlueEyes]

lol...I never really bought into what she said about it being written about getting to the top of your field and what happens when you get there...or however it was that she said it. This song reeks of relationship stuff to me :p It always seemed as though she would talk about it in very general terms but I've always thought it was about something very specific.

[michelej1]

"You can consume all the beauty in the room. I know you can, I've seen you do it"

Taken out of context from the rest of the song, I like this consumption line because it reminds me of Henry James' The Sacred Fount, the idea of one person soaking up the beauty or energy of another and for a purpose that is not innocent.

The way she says, "I know you can. I've seen you do it," indicates to me that he's denying he has this power and she says, I've seen it in action. Just someone who, without taking overt action, through their magnetism can break wills, without leaving any evidence behind that that's what they've done, leaving everyone in their wake weaker. Instead of a victimless crime, you have a crimeless victim, because people get hurt, but there's no proof of who did it.

So the words just suggest to me a person who draws others to him, takes attention from everyone else, distracts, but has no intention of committing or taking responsibility for the commitments he's made others break on his behalf. He uses the power (charm, charisma, talent) he wields for bad, rather than good.

He should, with honor, let the light he carries brighten his way, but instead he takes the low road and uses it to lead others astray. That's why she makes excuses for him.

Anyway, the song in its entirety is quite beautiful, especially the line: "we all believe in people that we think believe in God."

And I like the way it turns around, the way the one who consumed is, ultimately, revealed to be the one whose heart is broken and was apparently acting out of pain, rather than just avarice.

I like the drumbeat chant of the words, "I run through the grass. I run over the stones, down to the sea. Show me the way back." They add a layer of mystery just underneath.

There's something apocalyptic about the lyrics here. Despite, it's title, it doesn't talk much about "shangri-la" or a place of paradise, it speaks more of perdition. It's like she's describing being on the brink of destruction. So, when she says "show me the way back," I don't hear, show me the way back to happiness or "shangri-la". Instead, it seems like she's saying, "show me the way back from sin."

And I pair that part of the song with the album cover and think in the photo she doesn't appear to be running toward anything or away from it. It's like she's trying to retrace steps, but can't find them.

The song doesn't suggest the OJ trial or murder to me, but it does have elements of horror in it. "You say dear God, make it stop." That's the kind of plea that is too strong for your average love affair. So, I don't know exactly what harmed her, but the song suggests more than just troubled relationships.

Although, I think it outstanding now, it took me awhile to warm up to the album TISL and I think the song TISL is representative of the album. It came at me in little parts that didn't seem to fit together. There was no hooky chorus, no melody that I could snatch away and carry with me. It wasn't portable. I had to sit down and fall into it.

Michele

[michelej1]

The line 'I make accomodations for you' - I get the feeling this is about Joe Walsh.

I did think about that one Joe Walsh story of him coming in and keeping her band from working that time, in some of the lyrics.

Michele

[Lala]

I love this song, and I love TISL as an album...her best work to date IMHO. The song just jumps out and grabs you and says "pay attention...mama's got something to say"

The first time I heard it, I loved it. Hearing TISL the album for the first time came during a very meaningful time in my life...the last month of summer before moving away to college. The whole coming of age thing...struggling with leaving the past behind, etc.

I think my favourite line is...

But the promise has been broken
As you walk through the shadow of death
You try to see no evil
But you are heartbroken
You say, dear God, make it stop!
Before the dawn of separation...

When I heard it, I was in the final stages of transitioning from Christian to Agnotic, and I was pretty bitter. To me, that whole line (and the way she sings it) comes off as kind of cynical and bitter, but also desperate...EXACTLY what I was feeling at the time.

Without being any kind of expert on what she's said in interviews, it seems lines like "You can consume all the beauty in the room/I know you can/I've seen you do it" could be about Lindsey on stage. But if it was written pre-Dance, that may not be the case, considering in 1995 they hadn't really been on stage much together in basically 13 years.

Unless she's talking about the show-stopping performance at Bill Clinton's Inagural Ball...ha! :lol:

[Musicman408]

My friend insists that this song predicted the 9/11 attacks.

I think if Stevie was going to make a prediction that bold, and include it in a song, I'm sure she would have said something about it at another time as well! ;)

[michelej1]

Without being any kind of expert on what she's said in interviews, it seems lines like "You can consume all the beauty in the room/I know you can/I've seen you do it" could be about Lindsey on stage. But if it was written pre-Dance, that may not be the case, considering in 1995 they hadn't really been on stage much together in basically 13 years.

Unless she's talking about the show-stopping performance at Bill Clinton's Inagural Ball...ha! :lol:

Thinking of what you wrote: their first encounter, the way she describes seeing him, coming into the room, him in the center, drawing her right to him, California Dreaming and all -- I guess that sort of fits in with consuming all the beauty.

Generally though, I believe her when she says she thinks Lindsey is beautiful, but I don't get the impression that she thinks he consumes beauty, especially when they're on stage together. I think she thinks she's consuming it:laugh:.

I think she sees him as a more internal, introverted, smouldering beneath the surface person, dominating in small circles, rather than the room sucking kind of guy. So, I guess I always gave him the "intensity" because she said so, but I didn't associate those other lines with him.

I think if Stevie was going to make a prediction that bold, and include it in a song, I'm sure she would have said something about it at another time as well! ;)

I never thought of the song as a 911 prediction, but it does carry a trepidation throughout that speaks of something horrible, some disaster. Also, the album cover has her running through a doorway and you seem to cross the threshold into a sea, into nothingness. Ominous. I like the way it matches the moodiness of the song.

Michele

[Lala]

Generally though, I believe her when she says she thinks Lindsey is beautiful, but I don't get the impression that she thinks he consumes beauty, especially when they're on stage together. I think she thinks she's consuming it:laugh:.

I think she sees him as a more internal, introverted, smouldering beneath the surface person, dominating in small circles, rather than the room sucking kind of guy. So, I guess I always gave him the "intensity" because she said so, but I didn't associate those other lines with him.

See...I associate it with Lindsey when he is the center of attention...ie. I'm So Afraid or Come...moments where Stevie actually leaves the stage. But like I said, if it was written pre-Dance, that doesn't really make sense, except in my head.

[daniellaaarisen]

I'm kinda with Michele on this one. Part of Stevie's persona relies on her mystical and ethereal side that can kinda be swept away with the beauty of everything surrounding her. I think its about losing that into cynicism.

[Matthew]

This song is awesome openner to awesome album too. My favourite from TISL album.
She should record something new again, pleeeeaaaase! :)