An Alternative Fleetwood Mac

[chriskisn]

Ok this question is just a little bit far fetched, but just imagining that a rival Fleetwood Mac was started by the past members (just as Boney M did).

Who would you like to see in it (anyone who isn't Mick, John, Stevie or Lindsey). Feel free to poach someone from the post rumours era too. Oh and assume that Danny Kirwan was mentally and physically able. You'll obviously have to have a session drummer unless you want to do a John Mayall and ditch the drummer completely.

For my group I'd like to see Peter Green, Dave Walker, Bob Welch, Christine McVie, and Rick Vito and perhaps Bob Brunning on bass.

Personally I think this lineup would be able to cover pretty much all of the bases, from the blues of Peter, Dave, Chris & Rick, though the middle and later periods of FM of Chris, Rick and Bob.

Naturally my version of FM would be simply about playing the hits, I wouldn't expect any new material from them. The guitar playing would be fantastic though...

[sjpdg]

Ok this question is just a little bit far fetched, but just imagining that a rival Fleetwood Mac was started by the past members (just as Boney M did).

Who would you like to see in it (anyone who isn't Mick, John, Stevie or Lindsey). Feel free to poach someone from the post rumours era too. Oh and assume that Danny Kirwan was mentally and physically able. You'll obviously have to have a session drummer unless you want to do a John Mayall and ditch the drummer completely.

For my group I'd like to see Peter Green, Dave Walker, Bob Welch, Christine McVie, and Rick Vito and perhaps Bob Brunning on bass.

Personally I think this lineup would be able to cover pretty much all of the bases, from the blues of Peter, Dave, Chris & Rick, though the middle and later periods of FM of Chris, Rick and Bob.

Naturally my version of FM would be simply about playing the hits, I wouldn't expect any new material from them. The guitar playing would be fantastic though...

You might want to sit down for this. Really. Are you sitting down? Ok. Here we go.

I'm with you on this line up.:nod: I don't know so much about Brunning on bass, but I'm willing to go with it at least to try it out. I think it might sound pretty cool. Don't know who we'd get to play drums though. Assuming Danny was able, I'd love to see him and Peter instead of Rick. (Yes, that's right I said I'd rather have Danny than Rick. Mainly for the sake of nostalgia and to hear his smokin' guitar work again.)

This is an intriguing fantasy idea. One I will play in my head. Thanks for suggesting it.:thumbsup:

[chriskisn]

You know I was thinking after I posted this, if Peter Green said to Jeremy and Bob Brunning that he was putting the band back together (and they rejoined), that would be three-quarters of the original band. I'd be curious what would happen if he decided to do this and tour under the name "Peter Green's Fleetwood Mac". He'd have a reasonably strong case for claiming the right to use the name.

[slipkid]

You know I was thinking after I posted this, if Peter Green said to Jeremy and Bob Brunning that he was putting the band back together (and they rejoined), that would be three-quarters of the original band. I'd be curious what would happen if he decided to do this and tour under the name "Peter Green's Fleetwood Mac". He'd have a reasonably strong case for claiming the right to use the name.

If that actually happened, Mick Fleetwood would join in a heartbeat. "Goodbye Lindsay, and Stevie, I'm home again." Brunning would leave in two months because John McVie would come around as well. :nod:

You are aware when Mick gets depressed, he brings out the Peter Green material to brighten his mood? This scenario would be a dream come true for Mick. He realizes (as some of us do on this msg. board) that if the original band stayed intact (with Kirwan), they would've been in that top tier of rock bands. Their influence certainly would've produced better Jam bands than what are out there now.


Of course now it would be all for nostalgia, because Peter can't sing nor play like he once did. Yet Jeremy still has it, if not better than 40 years ago.

[sjpdg]

If that actually happened, Mick Fleetwood would join in a heartbeat. "Goodbye Lindsay, and Stevie, I'm home again." Brunning would leave in two months because John McVie would come around as well. :nod:

You are aware when Mick gets depressed, he brings out the Peter Green material to brighten his mood? This scenario would be a dream come true for Mick. He realizes (as some of us do on this msg. board) that if the original band stayed intact (with Kirwan), they would've been in that top tier of rock bands. Their influence certainly would've produced better Jam bands than what are out there now.


Of course now it would be all for nostalgia, because Peter can't sing nor play like he once did. Yet Jeremy still has it, if not better than 40 years ago.

You may want to check out my conspiracy theory thread over in the "Post Rumours" area. I think something like this could just happen. (At least in my fantasies it does!!:])

[dino]

Of course now it would be all for nostalgia, because Peter can't sing nor play like he once did. Yet Jeremy still has it, if not better than 40 years ago.

Well are you trying to say today's Fleetwood Mac isn't a nostalgia act? They haven't made good music or had a hit in 22 years :o.

[slipkid]

Well are you trying to say today's Fleetwood Mac isn't a nostalgia act? They haven't made good music or had a hit in 22 years :o.

Touché :laugh:

[chiliD]

... that if the original band stayed intact (with Kirwan), they would've been in that top tier of rock bands.

I'm convinced that they would've been on such a high level that Led Zeppelin would've been an afterthought.


... Their influence certainly would've produced better Jam bands than what are out there now.

Oh, I don't know about that, though. If you're talking "King of all Jam Bands", no one, not even the Grateful Dead, tops the Allman Brothers Band...and not even had Fleetwood Mac stayed intact from 1970 onwards.

[slipkid]

I'm convinced that they would've been on such a high level that Led Zeppelin would've been an afterthought.




Oh, I don't know about that, though. If you're talking "King of all Jam Bands", no one, not even the Grateful Dead, tops the Allman Brothers Band...and not even had Fleetwood Mac stayed intact from 1970 onwards.


For some reason I can't wrap my head around being bigger than Zeppelin, they were pretty big. I certainly could see them on equal footing. If Peter could've lived in the limelight just five to ten more years, he would've been the household name the other guitarists of his generation have become.


As for the jam bands, I'm not saying they would've been better than the Allmans, just different. Today you have two jam band schools: The Grateful Dead, and the Allman Brothers Band. Had FM continued as it was in early 1970, I think you would've had three schools because they brought a British influence to their sound.
Too many new jam bands sound the same. Another father of the genre would've created more ideas. If those bad sound recordings from 2-3/1971 are any proof, Peter Green was on another planet in the jam world. They could've been special.


That aside, I love the Allman Brothers Band. It's great Youtube has some Duane era performances online. There's a "Dreams" from 9/70 that is just stellar. I also like the current lineup with Warren Haynes and Derek Trucks on guitar, easily the best tandem since Duane was alive. The Live at the Beacon DVD is a must own.

[fleetwoodtrick]

Chriiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiis, no Stevie!? I'm dissapointed. :rolleyes:

[chriskisn]

Chriiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiis, no Stevie!? I'm dissapointed. :rolleyes:

Well you know I love Stevie and all that, but she's only 1/16th of the band... :D

I think I mentioned this in the post-rumours group when we were discussing the Mick Fleetwood Blues Band, that I would love to see Stevie ditching the witchy persona and doing some blues.

Just mentioning Ms Nicks in this forum is probably a banning offence anyway :lol:

[slipkid]

Well you know I love Stevie and all that, but she's only 1/16th of the band... :D

I think I mentioned this in the post-rumours group when we were discussing the Mick Fleetwood Blues Band, that I would love to see Stevie ditching the witchy persona and doing some blues.

Just mentioning Ms Nicks in this forum is probably a banning offense anyway :lol:

Since I'm a huge fan of Tom Petty, it's not a banning offense. I respect Stevie Nicks. I even had a crush for Christine McVie when I first watched "Hold Me" in 1982 thanks to MTV (I was 11). What saves Stevie Nicks from her punishment is that Tom Petty is a huge Peter Green fan ("Oh Well" 30th Aniversary concert?? the best cover version ever!!!). His XM/Sirius Buried Treasure show has allowed him to play many Peter Green tracks this past season. I think he's been in a blues mood the past few months. All is forgiven. We can all be friends.

[Almost Simon]

His XM/Sirius Buried Treasure show has allowed him to play many Peter Green tracks this past season. I think he's been in a blues mood the past few months. All is forgiven. We can all be friends.

I'm very pleased to hear that he'll be playing some Peter Green. :) I've only just started to find a way to get hold of the Buried Treasure asits not broadcast in the UK. I'm only upto listening to show 9 of his first season. It's been great so far. Fleetwood Mac has been absent so nice to hear he'll be playing some in future.

[slipkid]

I'm very pleased to hear that he'll be playing some Peter Green. :) I've only just started to find a way to get hold of the Buried Treasure asits not broadcast in the UK. I'm only upto listening to show 9 of his first season. It's been great so far. Fleetwood Mac has been absent so nice to hear he'll be playing some in future.

Here is the tracklist from season four.

http://tompetty.com/index2.php?module=news_item&news_item_id=756


For some reason Petty didn't start playing a lot of Peter Green related material until this season. I think there's an Otis Spann track and an "Oh Well" somewhere in previous seasons.

[dino]

Here is the tracklist from season four.

http://tompetty.com/index2.php?module=news_item&news_item_id=756


For some reason Petty didn't start playing a lot of Peter Green related material until this season. I think there's an Otis Spann track and an "Oh Well" somewhere in previous seasons.

He seems quite fond of Danny Kirwan also, playing a few of his tunes.
And very fond of Greeny era John Mayall, but who isn't :D.

[chiliD]

For some reason I can't wrap my head around being bigger than Zeppelin, they were pretty big. I certainly could see them on equal footing. If Peter could've lived in the limelight just five to ten more years, he would've been the household name the other guitarists of his generation have become.

Fleetwood Mac was outselling both Beatles & Stones COMBINED in the UK, they were just making their mark in the "hip" US circuit (the East & West Fillmores, The Wherehouse in N.O., etc), opening for both the GD & ABB. Peter was jamming with Duane & Jerry through those times, as well (as you mention below). Zeppelin was pretty much at the same "fame level" as Fleetwood Mac in '70 (they might've had a head start on the US market, granted, but not by much)...they didn't really go ballistic until the Beatles broke up and Peter Green left Fleetwood Mac...their 4th album, released in late '71 took them to that pinnacle. Had Peter stuck around, FMac would've most likely been the "king of the hill" keeping Zep off that (misty) mountain top.

As for the jam bands, I'm not saying they would've been better than the Allmans, just different. Today you have two jam band schools: The Grateful Dead, and the Allman Brothers Band. Had FM continued as it was in early 1970, I think you would've had three schools because they brought a British influence to their sound. Too many new jam bands sound the same. Another father of the genre would've created more ideas. If those bad sound recordings from 2-3/1971 are any proof, Peter Green was on another planet in the jam world. They could've been special.

Sure, there's the live "Rattlesnake Shakes" & "Green Manalishis" that go on forever with Peter stretching them out....but contrary to bands like the GD & ABB, Mick & John stuck to a groove and didn't vary from that unless Peter forced the issue...listen to Barry, Butch & Jaimoe (ABB) and Phil, Bill & Mickey (GD)...they're out there forging their own territory while Jerry, or Duane & Dickey are off doing their thing floating on the rhythm section's foundation..sometimes the rhythm section even set up the signposts for Jerry or Duane to follow. For Peter, he had the band on his back doing all the heavy lifting...Danny was an occasional "rest stop", but even as great as Mick & John are together, Peter still needed more from the rhythm section. Unless things would've changed drastically, I don't really think Fleetwood Mac ever would've attained "Jam band" status on a GD/ABB level, even had Peter stayed. If you want the "British Jam Band" school...think CREAM. They were basically the first "jam band" of major status.

Let's not forget LA's own jam band king, LITTLE FEAT. They're really the "third school" in today's jam band circles.

That aside, I love the Allman Brothers Band. It's great Youtube has some Duane era performances online. There's a "Dreams" from 9/70 that is just stellar. I also like the current lineup with Warren Haynes and Derek Trucks on guitar, easily the best tandem since Duane was alive. The Live at the Beacon DVD is a must own.

I wouldn't say "easily"...those early 90's days with Dickey Betts & Warren Haynes were pretty damned special. Warren was definitely channeling Duane during his first stretch with the band (89-97) his tone and attack changed quite a bit by the time he came back in '99 after his full time stint in Gov't Mule. And, those two years with Dickey Betts & Jack Pearson (97-99) were really awesome, as well...you gotta check out Jack's work (nothing "official" ever released, just a bunch of high quality live bootleg stuff.) Butch Trucks was even quoted as saying, "Had Duane lived, he'd be Jack Pearson"... strong words! There are some performances of "Dreams I'll Never See" & "Liz Reed" with Jack Pearson that some have said are the best versions ever performed. To each their own..."Dreams' was definitely Duane's slide statement and set the bar pretty damned high. (I'm not fully on the Derek Trucks bandwagon yet...yes, he's a great slide player even at his young age, but, there's still some fine tuning he lacks to my ear...he's ahead of the curve, maturity wise, but still gets a tad "out of control" at times.)

[slipkid]

Fleetwood Mac was outselling both Beatles & Stones COMBINED in the UK, they were just making their mark in the "hip" US circuit (the East & West Fillmores, The Wherehouse in N.O., etc), opening for both the GD & ABB. Peter was jamming with Duane & Jerry through those times, as well (as you mention below). Zeppelin was pretty much at the same "fame level" as Fleetwood Mac in '70 (they might've had a head start on the US market, granted, but not by much)...they didn't really go ballistic until the Beatles broke up and Peter Green left Fleetwood Mac...their 4th album, released in late '71 took them to that pinnacle. Had Peter stuck around, FMac would've most likely been the "king of the hill" keeping Zep off that (misty) mountain top.

One question: Did Clifford Adams (Davis) have the "balls" of Peter Grant?? I don't think so. He's why Zeppelin became so popular.


Sure, there's the live "Rattlesnake Shakes" & "Green Manalishis" that go on forever with Peter stretching them out....but contrary to bands like the GD & ABB, Mick & John stuck to a groove and didn't vary from that unless Peter forced the issue...listen to Barry, Butch & Jaimoe (ABB) and Phil, Bill & Mickey (GD)...they're out there forging their own territory while Jerry, or Duane & Dickey are off doing their thing floating on the rhythm section's foundation..sometimes the rhythm section even set up the signposts for Jerry or Duane to follow. For Peter, he had the band on his back doing all the heavy lifting...Danny was an occasional "rest stop", but even as great as Mick & John are together, Peter still needed more from the rhythm section. Unless things would've changed drastically, I don't really think Fleetwood Mac ever would've attained "Jam band" status on a GD/ABB level, even had Peter stayed. If you want the "British Jam Band" school...think CREAM. They were basically the first "jam band" of major status.

The post Jeremy Spencer early 1971 U.S. tour with Peter Green showed a side of the band that was never embraced. That was some serious jamming. As far as CREAM goes, there is good jamming, and there is ego noodling. Towards the end, Jack Bruce hated Ginger Baker to the point of drowning him out with his bass. Fleetwood Mac 1/70-4/70 went beyond Cream with better performances, since Peter Green was without ego by this time.






Let's not forget LA's own jam band king, LITTLE FEAT. They're really the "third school" in today's jam band circles.

I cannot stand Little Feat. They couldn't polish Peter Green's Fleetwood Mac's shoes as a jam band. They were a bunch of phoney's from LA that thought they could play New Orleans blues/funk. There is this band called the Meters, that does it much better!


I wouldn't say "easily"...those early 90's days with Dickey Betts & Warren Haynes were pretty damned special. Warren was definitely channeling Duane during his first stretch with the band (89-97) his tone and attack changed quite a bit by the time he came back in '99 after his full time stint in Gov't Mule. And, those two years with Dickey Betts & Jack Pearson (97-99) were really awesome, as well...you gotta check out Jack's work (nothing "official" ever released, just a bunch of high quality live bootleg stuff.) Butch Trucks was even quoted as saying, "Had Duane lived, he'd be Jack Pearson"... strong words! There are some performances of "Dreams I'll Never See" & "Liz Reed" with Jack Pearson that some have said are the best versions ever performed. To each their own..."Dreams' was definitely Duane's slide statement and set the bar pretty damned high. (I'm not fully on the Derek Trucks bandwagon yet...yes, he's a great slide player even at his young age, but, there's still some fine tuning he lacks to my ear...he's ahead of the curve, maturity wise, but still gets a tad "out of control" at times.)


I saw the ABB in 1989, Warren Haynes first year with the band. It was the best concert I'd ever seen up to the point. I saw them the following year, and it wasn't the same (even though they brought back the oil projections with the mushrooms). I don't know if Dickey Betts was drinking again or on drugs, but something was off. That 11/89 concert was special.

[chiliD]

I cannot stand Little Feat. They couldn't polish Peter Green's Fleetwood Mac's shoes as a jam band. They were a bunch of phoney's from LA that thought they could play New Orleans blues/funk. There is this band called the Meters, that does it much better!


Whew! Ok, I think we'd better just "agree to disagree" before I go off on you an rip you a couple'a new ones.

[slipkid]

Whew! Ok, I think we'd better just "agree to disagree" before I go off on you an rip you a couple'a new ones.


Ok, I came on a little strong, sorry. Little Feat is a good band, I think Lowell George was a great guitar player. It's just not my thing, that's all. It also may explain why some of the current jam bands don't interest me. I never thought of Little Feat as the third strand, but now it makes sense.

[chiliD]

Ok, I came on a little strong, sorry. Little Feat is a good band, I think Lowell George was a great guitar player. It's just not my thing, that's all. It also may explain why some of the current jam bands don't interest me. I never thought of Little Feat as the third strand, but now it makes sense.

Cool. :thumbsup:

I miss Lowell big time. I'm glad they got back together and have stayed active, but there IS that *thing* missing in their approach without Lowell. Craig Fuller did a good Lowell imitation, but that's all it was, "imitation". After he left, they finally started to find their own new sound.

But, "phoneys"?? No way. That's what irked me.

There's nobody like The Meters, or the Neville Bros, for that matter....that's for damned sure!!! :thumbsup:

Long live Professor Longhair!! :)

[jeremy spencer]

it's rare to see an apology on an argumentative blog these days!

[slipkid]

Cool. :thumbsup:

I miss Lowell big time. I'm glad they got back together and have stayed active, but there IS that *thing* missing in their approach without Lowell. Craig Fuller did a good Lowell imitation, but that's all it was, "imitation". After he left, they finally started to find their own new sound.

But, "phoneys"?? No way. That's what irked me.

There's nobody like The Meters, or the Neville Bros, for that matter....that's for damned sure!!! :thumbsup:

Long live Professor Longhair!! :)



I'm happy you've accepted my apology. My anger had nothing to do with the post, I was just responding in a bad mood. Another band that needs to be mentioned in the Jam band scene is The Marshall Tucker Band. Just like the Allmans, they are the anti-Lynyrd Skynyrd version of southern rock. In that case the Feat belong as well. Since I'm a big Flying Burrito Brothers fan (with or w/o Gram Parsons), I see how my glass house would be full of holes mocking Little Feat.

[chiliD]

I'm happy you've accepted my apology. My anger had nothing to do with the post, I was just responding in a bad mood. Another band that needs to be mentioned in the Jam band scene is The Marshall Tucker Band. Just like the Allmans, they are the anti-Lynyrd Skynyrd version of southern rock. In that case the Feat belong as well. Since I'm a big Flying Burrito Brothers fan (with or w/o Gram Parsons), I see how my glass house would be full of holes mocking Little Feat.

It's all good...I pretty much over-reacted, too. :sorry:

That original lineup of the MTB was one of the best live bands of all-time...I felt sorry for any act that had to follow them. They opened for the ABB back in '73 & '75, even as good at the "Brothers" were then, they had to be on their toes every night following the Caldwell boys. I saw the MTB open for Stephen Stills....even after a 45 minute intermission between acts, the crowd was STILL "buzzing" after MTB's set. Stills made the mistake of trying to open his show with a solo acoustic set...just didn't work...the audience was wanting more high energy performances.

I wouldn't categorize the MTB as a "jam band", though...they played pretty tight arrangements except for a couple of songs ("24 Hrs At A Time" & "Everyday I Have The Blues")

Those first two Burrito Bros albums were classics. How can you go wrong with Gram Parsons & Chris Hillman in the same band? Later incarnations just seemed to fill up with lesser known and later incarnation ex-Byrds members (Gene Parsons, Skip Battin, etc)...but, the FBB family tree is more like a "web" rather than a "tree".

[slipkid]

it's rare to see an apology on an argumentative blog these days!

Thanks for the kudo, so I'm using this is an opportunity.

I probably lost your attention a couple days ago, which is my fault. I'm very curious about this subject: your guitar of choice. Why did you switch to a Gibson Flying V guitar towards the end run of the Peter Green era of Fleetwood Mac? Then after Green left you returned to a hollow body guitar? At least you did in the Kiln House sessions that were captured for a documentary. My nickname songwriter praised the Fleetwood Mac version of blues music, along with Chicken Shack. Here's the clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1c2O58N0mI


P.S. As for what you play now (which I believe is a Paul Reed Smith), did you have to visit the states to purchase that guitar?

[jeremy spencer]

Thanks for the kudo, so I'm using this is an opportunity.

I probably lost your attention a couple days ago, which is my fault. I'm very curious about this subject: your guitar of choice. Why did you switch to a Gibson Flying V guitar towards the end run of the Peter Green era of Fleetwood Mac? Then after Green left you returned to a hollow body guitar? At least you did in the Kiln House sessions that were captured for a documentary. My nickname songwriter praised the Fleetwood Mac version of blues music, along with Chicken Shack. Here's the clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1c2O58N0mI


P.S. As for what you play now (which I believe is a Paul Reed Smith), did you have to visit the states to purchase that guitar?

I switched to a Flying V because I had been listening to Albert King a lot, and wanted to duplicate his sound with a slide. I realised that was due to his plucking with this fingers instead of a pick and I didn't have the confidence for that until I traded my SG for a PRS in the mid nineties. However the PRS 24 frets were too close together for my accuracy using a pick, so I dropped the pick and found a new lease on life plucking with my fingers while playing slide.
The f-hole Hofner was a result of a desire to return to that single coil pick-up sound as opposed to humbuckers, but I didn't know why! I now know. Humbuckers don't seem to be sensitive enough to the nuances of the fingering when playing slide.
Oh well. It's all technical. But I now use a PRS with 3 P90 single coils which is just perfect.
Hope that answers your question, Slipkid!

[SteveMacD]

Humbuckers don't seem to be sensitive enough to the nuances of the fingering when playing slide.
Just an idea, but you actually may want to try one of those Rick Turner guitars that Lindsey plays. It was designed specifically for finger-style guitar, and I would imagine that would also translate into slide guitar. I know ChiliD has one, and has sworn that it makes a sweet guitar for blues, too.

I'd be curious to hear what a slide would sound like on one of those. I suppose there's a Steve Miller bootleg out there with him playing one with slide.

[slipkid]

Thanks Jeremy! :)