Like It This Way

[Melack]

I really love the song "Like It This Way"

Just wonder if anyone have any cool info about this song.

Well any info at all really.

When was it recorded? Was it ever considered for an album and which?

This should have been an album track i think, it's just that good.

[doodyhead]

it was released on "Blues Jam In Chicago"

that is an official release


doodyhead

[dansven]

Ooh, I just luuuuv it when they push it from minor to major on a couple of verses during the Kirwan/Green solos ... on some live occasions, Boston Tea Party for example. :thumbsup:

[slipkid]

I'm guessing the Chess sessions is where the rest of the band heard this tune for the first time. Peter Green's response doesn't mimic very well to Kirwan's call. I think when the band recorded an early version of "Man of the World" in New York a week or two later they re-recorded "Like It This Way". That version can be found on "Jumping At Shadows...The Blues Years", or "The Vaudeville Years". By then the song is polished.

I think of all those songs that went wasted because Peter Green left the band: 'Sandy Mary' (Green), 'World in Harmony', 'Loving Kind', 'Like it This Way' (done properly), 'Only You'. None of these songs made it to a proper album. Then there's "One Sided Love" which was never recorded in the studio. Danny Kirwan was a well of ideas, that's for sure. You combine the above with Kirwan's songs from "Kiln House", and you have a very strong album. I'd even throw in Hi-Ho Silver, and This is the Rock.

[zoork_1]

I'm guessing the Chess sessions is where the rest of the band heard this tune for the first time...[...]

I've got a recollection of it played at Falconer Centret 1968-11-17. Anyone heard it performed earlier than that?

/z

[BklynBlue]

I actually think that the date for the Falkoner Center is incorrect - I think the show was probably taped during their third Nordic trek - in April / May of 1969
Hjort pulls quotes from a number of contemporary local papers in Denmark which made a point of detailing that Taste stole the show that night in November of 1968, and if the recording attributed to that night was an example of how they played, it would be hard to imagine Gallagher’s power trio not winning the night. The recording finds Fleetwood Mac playing well but not sounding particularly inspired. During the seemingly endless tune-up at the start of the show, (the show was repeatedly brought to a grinding halt as the band retuned during this particular set) Green tells the audience, “…this is going to be a very casual evening, we’re going to do what we like and you do what you like…” before opening the show with Bennett’s ‘Jumping at Shadows’, hardly what one would expect from the headliners after a high energy performance by a band on the undercard. Green might not have ever wanted to be a "guitar God" but he had enough professional pride to not allow himself to be upstaged that easily.
Further undercutting the probability of these numbers having been recorded on the night in question, is the fact that it is obviously a non-English speaking M.C. who brings the band on, introducing them as “The Peter Green” (as the band is tuning, Green also uses the time to introduce each of the members of “Fleetwood Mac” individually). Mike Vernon, had joined them on for these dates to act as the compre for the shows, and he can be clearly heard making the introductions at the show recorded in Orebro on 11 / 23 / 68.

[aleuzzi]

I can't help but think this awesome song and performance were inspired by the tempo and call-response guitar-horn bits on Rollin' Man.

Anyone else think so?

[slipkid]

I actually think that the date for the Falkoner Center is incorrect - I think the show was probably taped during their third Nordic trek - in April / May of 1969
Hjort pulls quotes from a number of contemporary local papers in Denmark which made a point of detailing that Taste stole the show that night in November of 1968, and if the recording attributed to that night was an example of how they played, it would be hard to imagine Gallagher’s power trio not winning the night. The recording finds Fleetwood Mac playing well but not sounding particularly inspired. During the seemingly endless tune-up at the start of the show, (the show was repeatedly brought to a grinding halt as the band retuned during this particular set) Green tells the audience, “…this is going to be a very casual evening, we’re going to do what we like and you do what you like…” before opening the show with Bennett’s ‘Jumping at Shadows’, hardly what one would expect from the headliners after a high energy performance by a band on the undercard. Green might not have ever wanted to be a "guitar God" but he had enough professional pride to not allow himself to be upstaged that easily.
Further undercutting the probability of these numbers having been recorded on the night in question, is the fact that it is obviously a non-English speaking M.C. who brings the band on, introducing them as “The Peter Green” (as the band is tuning, Green also uses the time to introduce each of the members of “Fleetwood Mac” individually). Mike Vernon, had joined them on for these dates to act as the compre for the shows, and he can be clearly heard making the introductions at the show recorded in Orebro on 11 / 23 / 68.

The only reason I thought that "Like It This Way" was done on the fly in Chicago, is that Peter Green doesn't follow Kirwan's call and response on the recorded take. Green was a great improviser (Kirwan was not), but you need at least one run-through first. The outtake studio version is recorded within two weeks, and Green has it down solid.


Ahh, what this band could've been... Green never leaves, Spencer goes for CoG anyway, Christine joins the band in response, Kirwan remains sane with Green as de-facto leader (haha), and writes more great songs without pressure, they never need Bob Welch, Kirwan never smashes his Gibson Black Beauty...the no LSD reality!?!?

[Ms Moose]

I actually think that the date for the Falkoner Center is incorrect - I think the show was probably taped during their third Nordic trek - in April / May of 1969
Hjort pulls quotes from a number of contemporary local papers in Denmark which made a point of detailing that Taste stole the show that night in November of 1968, and if the recording attributed to that night was an example of how they played, it would be hard to imagine Gallagher’s power trio not winning the night. The recording finds Fleetwood Mac playing well but not sounding particularly inspired. During the seemingly endless tune-up at the start of the show, (the show was repeatedly brought to a grinding halt as the band retuned during this particular set) Green tells the audience, “…this is going to be a very casual evening, we’re going to do what we like and you do what you like…” before opening the show with Bennett’s ‘Jumping at Shadows’, hardly what one would expect from the headliners after a high energy performance by a band on the undercard. Green might not have ever wanted to be a "guitar God" but he had enough professional pride to not allow himself to be upstaged that easily.
Further undercutting the probability of these numbers having been recorded on the night in question, is the fact that it is obviously a non-English speaking M.C. who brings the band on, introducing them as “The Peter Green” (as the band is tuning, Green also uses the time to introduce each of the members of “Fleetwood Mac” individually). Mike Vernon, had joined them on for these dates to act as the compre for the shows, and he can be clearly heard making the introductions at the show recorded in Orebro on 11 / 23 / 68.

I think you are right. Starting of like that would somehow seem out of sync with the rest of the 'goings on'.

FM played in Denmark six times between 1968 -1970 (according to Hjort):
7th of april 1968 - Falkoner Centret
17th of november 1968 - Falkoner Centret
25th of march 1969 - ABC - Teatret
1st of november 1969 - Holstebro Hallen
8th of november 1969 - K.B. Hallen
28th of march 1970 - Falkoner Centret (PG starts of by saying to the audience that he: "..hopes everybody is suitably stoned.." I dont know if there are recordings from all the concerts?

- and I don't think FM had "Jumping At Shadows" on their repertoire before 1969. Maybe I am wrong.´

Ms Moose

[Melack]

thanks for all the info!

it's the vaudeville sessions version that I have fallen in love with, sounds properly recorded enough for me to be out on a real album.

but i'm just glad we have it.

[BklynBlue]

- and I don't think FM had "Jumping At Shadows" on their repertoire before 1969. Maybe I am wrong.´

Ms Moose[/QUOTE]

I think you are right. If I am correct on the dating of the show, then the first "available" live recording of "Jumping at Shadows" would be from the April 22nd 1969 show at the Royal Albert Hall.
After that, they performed it a few months later for a BBC broadcast on June 10th and the next time it is heard is on the Boston Tea Party recordings - the differences in the performances from 1969 to 1970 are both subtle and startling -
Same thing with "Like It This Way" - the intro on the Falkoner Center recording is a train wreck - it would seem that they had never performed it live before - quite possible - they laid it down during the Chess sessions and had not played it since -

[sharksfan2000]

Further undercutting the probability of these numbers having been recorded on the night in question, is the fact that it is obviously a non-English speaking M.C. who brings the band on, introducing them as “The Peter Green” (as the band is tuning, Green also uses the time to introduce each of the members of “Fleetwood Mac” individually). Mike Vernon, had joined them on for these dates to act as the compre for the shows, and he can be clearly heard making the introductions at the show recorded in Orebro on 11 / 23 / 68.
Very good point, BklynBlue. For any of our European friends who have that recording that's supposed to be from 17 November 1968 at the Falkoner Centret - are there clues from the MC's intro whether this was from Copenhagen or if it might actually be from another country? Not much can be heard from the MC but it may be enough for some of you to tell. I may see if I can post an mp3 clip of the (very brief) intro later today.

[Ms Moose]

Very good point, BklynBlue. For any of our European friends who have that recording that's supposed to be from 17 November 1968 at the Falkoner Centret - are there clues from the MC's intro whether this was from Copenhagen or if it might actually be from another country? Not much can be heard from the MC but it may be enough for some of you to tell. I may see if I can post an mp3 clip of the (very brief) intro later today.

I only have the 7th of may 1968 concert and the 28th of march 1970 concert, but if you post the intro - I (and the other scandinavians on this site) will be able to hear which of the scandinavian languages is spoken.

Ms Moose

[sharksfan2000]

I attached the mp3 file - it's inside a zip file since it looks like the site won't let me attach an mp3 directly. As noted before, it's very short so hope someone will be able to tell whether the MC is Danish, Swedish, or from another country. Thanks!

[dansven]

I attached the mp3 file - it's inside a zip file since it looks like the site won't let me attach an mp3 directly. As noted before, it's very short so hope someone will be able to tell whether the MC is Danish, Swedish, or from another country. Thanks!

That is Danish ... must be! What do you think, Ms Moose?
"Her er de ... Peter Green!" ("Here they are ... Peter Green!")
:p

[Ms Moose]

That is Danish ... must be! What do you think, Ms Moose?
"Her er de ... Peter Green!" ("Here they are ... Peter Green!")
:p

Yes you are right dansven, the language is danish and the accent pronouncing the english name is danish too. :nod:

Ms Moose

[zoork_1]

Thanks, BklynBlue, Ms Moose, sharksfan2000 for interesting points, and Yes, It’s danish.

BTW, my structural parts, or nerves, don’t like these imminent dating stuff. I had problems with ”70-03-23”, still gott problems accepting it as Cue Club early nov 1969, and now you’ve made me ponder over Falconer Centret 1968-11-17, arf, arf....

/z

[sharksfan2000]

Thanks to dansven, Ms Moose, and zoork 1 for confirming that the language is indeed Danish! So it looks like the next time the band was in Denmark was late March 1969, and that could be the true date of this show if BklynBlue is correct about it not actually being from November '68.

[BklynBlue]

Just wanted to add my belated thanks also to those who added their linguistic expertise :cool:

[Wouter Vuijk]

Just wanted to add my belated thanks also to those who added their linguistic expertise :cool:

Well, if there weren't a Scandinavia, there wouldn't have been a discussion over the language. Even more, Fleetwood Mac wouldnt have played there and we wouldn't have had the fantastic recordings.

So, also from me: Thanks guys, for your contributions on the matter.
:xoxo:

[sharksfan2000]

Thanks, BklynBlue, Ms Moose, sharksfan2000 for interesting points, and Yes, It’s danish.

BTW, my structural parts, or nerves, don’t like these imminent dating stuff. I had problems with ”70-03-23”, still gott problems accepting it as Cue Club early nov 1969, and now you’ve made me ponder over Falconer Centret 1968-11-17, arf, arf....

/z
Zoork 1 - I didn't figure out your "Cue Club" reference until last night, when I saw that the show on Wolfgang's Vault that had previously been listed as 3/69 in Stockholm (which was clearly the wrong date) has been changed to the Cue Club in Gotenburg on 2 November 1969.

But you're right about problems with that 11/69 date too. I must admit that I have not yet listened to the show, but just the setlist and track times make me agree with you that they've got the date wrong again. In all the band's other shows from 11/69, "Rattlesnake Shake" was under 11 minutes long (and still less than 13 minutes in San Antonio in mid-December), and I've never heard a live recording of "Underway" until January 1970 - yet this show features a "Rattlesnake Shake/Underway" combo that's over 24 minutes long, much more like how the band was playing this number in the first few months of 1970. And I have not heard a live "World In Harmony" before mid-January 1970.

So difficulty in establishing the correct date and venue of old recordings is not only a problem with bootlegs! :laugh:

[slipkid]

Zoork 1 - I didn't figure out your "Cue Club" reference until last night, when I saw that the show on Wolfgang's Vault that had previously been listed as 3/69 in Stockholm (which was clearly the wrong date) has been changed to the Cue Club in Gotenburg on 2 November 1969.

But you're right about problems with that 11/69 date too. I must admit that I have not yet listened to the show, but just the setlist and track times make me agree with you that they've got the date wrong again. In all the band's other shows from 11/69, "Rattlesnake Shake" was under 11 minutes long (and still less than 13 minutes in San Antonio in mid-December), and I've never heard a live recording of "Underway" until January 1970 - yet this show features a "Rattlesnake Shake/Underway" combo that's over 24 minutes long, much more like how the band was playing this number in the first few months of 1970. And I have not heard a live "World In Harmony" before mid-January 1970.

So difficulty in establishing the correct date and venue of old recordings is not only a problem with bootlegs! :laugh:


I think the concert in question is from early April 1970, if it's from a Scandinavian country. I've seen posts with people trying to explain this to the Vault, but they seem to think this 11/69 date is valid (at least they admitted 3/69 was completely wrong). As you state, some of those songs weren't performed until the three month U.S. tour and after. "World in Harmony" is the key clue.

Update:

I think it's one of three shows: 3/28/70 Copenhagen Denmark, 3/30/70 Odense Denmark, or 4/3/70 Helsinki Finland. 4/1/70 Stockholm is ruled out because a known recording of that exists and the set-list is not the same.

[dino]

Well, the "Cue Club" tape is not Copenhagen or Helsinki, cause there's audio recordings of those shows too and the setlists do not match. But why a Scandianvian gig? Is there any Danish or Swedish spoken on the tape?

[slipkid]

Well, the "Cue Club" tape is not Copenhagen or Helsinki, cause there's audio recordings of those shows too and the setlists do not match. But why a Scandianvian gig? Is there any Danish or Swedish spoken on the tape?


I guess it doesn't have to be a Scandinavian date. I thought about that as well, it could just as well be from Germany (Munich?), or other dates in March 1970. Here is the real question, when did Peter Green start using a Wah pedal for Rattlesnake Shake? Was it during the last U.S. tour or after? When one can establish that answer, you can narrow down the dates for this show. From the recordings I've heard, he certainly wasn't using the effect in 11/69.

[sharksfan2000]

I guess it doesn't have to be a Scandinavian date. I thought about that as well, it could just as well be from Germany (Munich?), or other dates in March 1970. Here is the real question, when did Peter Green start using a Wah pedal for Rattlesnake Shake? Was it during the last U.S. tour or after? When one can establish that answer, you can narrow down the dates for this show. From the recordings I've heard, he certainly wasn't using the effect in 11/69.

Slipkid, I can give you a pretty good answer to your question. A few years ago I went through all the live recordings I had at that time of "Rattlesnake Shake": http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showthread.php?t=14620

The first recording where Green uses a wah pedal on that number is from a show that's listed as 25 March 1970 in Vienna. There's one from a show listed as 15 March in Hanover where he is still not using it. So from the recordings I've heard, he started using the wah pedal on "Rattlesnake Shake" only in the second half of March 1970.

[doodyhead]

If that it is so about march 70( I have no reason to doubt you Ken as you have been cataloging this stuff for some time). It is incredible the development of his expertise by the time of the chalk farm show, let alone what he sounded like at the Mayall show at the Bath Festival
or with Peter Bardens "Never Goof with a Spook"
The Wah-Wah Pedal is not as easy as it looks as always Peter never ceases to amaze.

doodyhead

[sharksfan2000]

It is incredible the development of his expertise by the time of the chalk farm show, let alone what he sounded like at the Mayall show at the Bath Festival or with Peter Bardens "Never Goof with a Spook"
And even by 9 April on the live BBC recording of "Rattlesnake Shake/Underway".

[wetcamelfood]

Don't know if this is worth anything but in looking at the notes for the Pete Bardens "Write my name in the dust" anthology it says the "original sessions" for his "The Answer" solo album (including "...spook" etc.) "with Peter Green" were "in October 1969, though further work was carried out in June 1970".

This of course implies that Green was not involved in the June '70 part of the sessions and it sure sounds like he's using the wah pedal on thspook et al so maybe he started using the wah sooner in the studio than he did live?

Seems odd but who knows...

John

[dino]

Hm, possibly he overdubbed his wah wah guitar in June 1970?
Green's playing is great, but it's possible to imagine these songs as basic tracks without his guitar. The Brunning sunflower sessions, also from October 1969, has no wah wah at all. What would be Peter's first documented studio use of wah wah if we discount the Bardens sessions for a moment?

[wetcamelfood]

Hm, possibly he overdubbed his wah wah guitar in June 1970?
Green's playing is great, but it's possible to imagine these songs as basic tracks without his guitar. The Brunning sunflower sessions, also from October 1969, has no wah wah at all. What would be Peter's first documented studio use of wah wah if we discount the Bardens sessions for a moment?

Yeah it'll be interesting to see what the others say.

Just as an aside, the Bardens anthology notes don't say Green was there specifically in Oct '69 as I thought (sorry for the goof) but the Celmins PG "sessionography" listed in chronological order on the bio only list Green for Oct '69 for the Bardens session.

John

[Alan Olson]

I'm usually wrong about this stuff, but I believe that the Otis Spann "The Biggest Thing Since Colossus" was released in January of 1969 and there are a couple of tracks with wha wha effect on there but my ears aren't fine tuned enough to tell me if it's Peter or Danny. If it is Peter then he was toying around with the wha in the studio as far back as 1968???

-Al

[Ms Moose]

Sorry to interrupt the flow of this thread - but refering to slipkids comment on the spring 1970 concerts - I noticed that the 30th of april 1970 concert at Fyens Forum did not appear in my (what I thought was the complete obsessive-compulsive)list of FM concerts in Denmark 1967-70. So here is the total list, 7 concerts in all:

7th of april 1968 - Falkoner Centret, Copenhagen
17th of november 1968 - Falkoner Centret, Copenhagen
25th of march 1969 - ABC - Teatret, Copenhagen
1st of november 1969 - Holstebro Hallen, Holstebro
8th of november 1969 - K.B. Hallen, Copenhagen
28th of march 1970 - Falkoner Centret, Copenhagen
30th of march 1970 - Fyens Forum, Odense

Ms Moose