(A Fairly Exhaustive) Timeline

[Moz]

I've been working on a fairly exhaustive and detailed timeline consisting of important dates and events in Fleetwood Mac history. Here is the first part I have completed - the 1960s and band member birthdates. As I type up and add information to the rest of the timeline (1970-2008), I'll update this thread.

Please reply if you have anything to add to the timeline or if there is a wrong date! Most of my information comes from "Q Encyclopedia of Rock Stars", Mick's books (though the book's facts are questionable), the Ledge, various interviews, and personal recollections here on the boards.

1933
November 29 - John Mayall is born in Macclesfield, Cheshire.

1943
June 29 - Robert Brunning is born in Bournemouth, Dorset.
July 12 - Christine Anne Perfect is born in Bouth, Lake District.

1944
May 10 - David Thomas Mason is born in Worcester, Worcestershire.
June 19 - Peter Bardens is born Westminster, Central London.

1945
January 25 - David Walker is born in Walsall, Staffordshire.
August 31 - Robert Welch Jr. is born in Los Angeles, California.
November 26 - John Graham McVie is born in Ealing, West London.

1946
October 29 - Peter Allen Greenbaum is born in Bethnal Green, London.

1947
June 24 - Michael John Kells Fleetwood is born in Redruth, Cornwall.
November 1 - Robert Joseph Weston is born in Plymouth, Devon.

1948
May 26 - Stephanie Lynn Nicks is born in Phoenix, Arizona.
July 4 - Jeremy Spencer is born Hartlepool, County Durham.

1949
October 3 - Lindsey Adams Buckingham is born in Palo Alto, California.
October 13 - Rick Vito is born in Darby, Pennsylvania.

1950
May 13 - Daniel David Kirwan is born in Brixton, South London.

1953
May 8 - William Beau Burnette III is born in Memphis, Tennessee.

1965
August - Peter Green replaces Eric Clapton's spot in the Bluesbreakers for a few gigs.

1966
May? - Peter Green joins Peter B's Looners, fronted by Peter Bardens.
July - Green joins John Mayall and the Bluesbreakers to replace Eric Clapton full-time.

1967
February 16 - A Hard Road is released by John Mayall and the Bluesbreakers, featuring future Fleetwood Mac bassist John McVie and guitarist/vocalist Peter Green.
April - Mick Fleetwood, previously a member of the Cheynes, the Bo Street Runners, Peter B's Looners, and Shotgun Express (the latter with Rod Stewart), joins John Mayall's Bluesbreakers, replacing drummer Aynsley Dunbar. The new Bluesbreakers consists of Mayall, Fleetwood, John McVie and Peter Green. Green had previously played with Fleetwood as a member of both the Looners and Shotgun Express. In spare studio time offered by Mayall, Green, Fleetwood, and McVie record five songs, including early versions of "Fleetwood Mac," "Double Trouble," and "It Hurts Me Too." The three form a close alliance, though within a month, Fleetwood is fired from the Bluesbreakers, while Green leaves to form Fleetwood Mac.
July - Without Mayall, the Bluesbreakers have recently worked for Blue Horizon label owner Mike Vernon as a backing band for US bluesman Eddie Boyd, who has been keen to sign a domestic blues outfit for his label. After auditioning and firing Midlands-based band The Levi Set, he introduces their guitarist, Jeremy Spencer, to Green and Fleetwood.
Green contacts Fleetwood, wanting to start a new band. Fleetwood agrees, and they try to entice McVie into joining their new band, naming it after him. He declines, as he has been a steady member of the Bluesbreakers for some time. Fleetwood and Green team up with slide guitarist Jeremy Spencer and bassist Bob Brunning, forming Fleetwood Mac. The new group holds early warm-up gigs at the Black Bull pub in Falham, London.
August 13 - Fleetwood Mac makes its major debut at the Windsor Jazz & Blues Festival at Windfor, Berks. Ironically, future Fleetwood Mac member and wife of John McVie, Christine Perfect, appears on stage with Chicken Shack at its first concert.
September 17 - Following its London bow at the Marquee club and an appearance at an open-air festival in the Midlands, the group plays at the Saville Theatre, London.
John McVie, who left the Bluesbreakers after they were becoming 'too jazzy', joins to replace Brunning, who left to form the Sunflower Brunning Blues Band.
November 3 - The group releases its debut single "I Believe My Time Ain't Long," billed as Peter Green's Fleetwood Mac. It becomes the resident house band for the Blue Horizon label, backing Otis Spann, Duster Bennett, and others on a variety of albums.

1968
February 24 - Fleetwood Mac, the band's debut album, is released.
March - A new blues boom hits Britain and the band's debut album hits UK #4 and makes US #198.
April - "Black Magic Woman," written by Green, reaches UK #37. Santana's version will hit US #4 in January 1971.
April 19 - Rebekka Ruth Lazone Bramlett is born.
May - Fleetwood Mac embarks on a short tour of Scandinavia.
July - Their cover of Little Willie John's "Need Your Love So Bad," highlighted by Mickey Baker's string arrangement, reaches UK #31, as the group begins its first US tour, debuting at Detroit, Michigan's Grande Ballroom. They go on to perform in San Francisco and at the Shrine Auditorium, Los Angeles, CA.
July 13 - Fleetwood Mac guests on CBS-TV's "The Ed Sullivan Show".
Early August - John McVie and Christine Perfect are married.
August 23 - Mr. Wonderful is released. Christine Perfect, a member of Chicken Shack, makes her first appearance on a Mac album as a session player.
August 25 - The group begins a two-month UK tour at the Nag's Head Pub, Battersea, London, with a new addition, eighteen year old Danny Kirwan. Kirwan had been spotted by Green playing in the trio Boilerhouse. A Melody Maker ad placed for a new guitarist received 300 replies, with no applicant proving good enough. Kirwan is added due to Green's frustration with Jeremy Spencer's musical contributions.
September - Mr. Wonderful hits UK #10.
November - John Mayall's new album Blues From Laurel Canyon is released. Green is featured on one track. Throughout the rest of the late 1960s and 1970s, Green makes more contributions on albums by Eddie Boyd, Duster Bennett, Otis Spann, Brunning Sunflower Blues Band, Jeremy Spencer, Peter Bardens, and others.
December 4 - They begin a 30-date US tour, including shows at the Fillmore East, Boston Tea Party, and Chicago's Electric Factory.
December 23 - Fleetwood Mac takes part in the Miami Pop Festival in Hallandale, Florida, with Marvin Gaye, Steppenwolf, Three Dog Night, and the Grateful Dead, among others.

1969
Date unknown - Clifford Davis, Fleetwood's Mac manager from 1967-1974, releases two singles (with help from Fleetwood Mac), "Before The Beginning" / "Man of the World" and "Come On Down And Follow Me" / "Homework", the former a coupling of two Fleetwood Mac songs.
Date unknown - Tramp, the self-titled album by the band of the same name, is released, featuring ex-Mac bassist Bob Brunning, and current members Fleetwood and Kirwan.
Date unknown - The Brunning Sunflower Blues Band, fronted by Bob Brunning, releases its first album with a guest appearance by Green.
January - English Rose is released, consisting of six tracks from Mr. Wonderful and three unreleased tracks.
January 4 - Fleetwood Mac records at Chicago's Chess Ter-Mar Studios with Willie Dixon, Otis Spann, J.T. Brown, S.P. Leary, and Honeyboy Edwards. The Blues Jam would end up being the band's last all-blues recording.
January 9 - Otis Spann's The Biggest Thing Since Colossus is released, featuring Danny Kirwan, John McVie, and Peter Green.
January 25 - A concert from the Shrine Auditorium in LA is recorded, later released in 1999 as [I]Shrine '69[I/]
January 29 - "Albatross", written by Green, tops the UK chart. A haunting guitar instrumental, it lifts the group out of the blues bracket and establishes its name throughout Europe.
February - English Rose peaks at US #184.
February 5, 6, 7 - Three shows are recorded at the Boston Tea Party and are later released on Madison Blues Live in 1994, and Live at the Boston Tea Party, released in 1999.
March - The group embarks on a European tour, including an eight-date UK segment, with B.B. King, Sonny Terry & Brownie McGhee and Duster Bennett.
May - Green-penned "Man of the World" hits UK #2, behind the Beatles' "Get Back". The group's contract with Blue Horizon ends amid financial acrimony and it signs a one-off deal with Rolling Stones' manager Andrew Loog Oldham's Immediate label, not least because interest is also currently being expressed by the Beatles' Apple label (Fleetwood and George Harrison were brothers-in-law), although nothing comes of this.
August - "Need Your Love So Bad" is reissued, this time making UK #32.
September - Pious Bird of Good Omen reaches UK #18. While the group negotiates a new contract, Blue Horizon releases a collection of old material, and re-promotes "Need Your Love So Bad", which charts for a third time at UK #42.
September 9 - Then Play On is released. It includes songs by Danny Kirwan and Peter Green, with some piano work by Christine McVie. While Jeremy Spencer is still in the band, he only appears on "Oh Well", doing some "piano things." At the time of recording Then Play On, Spencer goes on to record the band's first solo album by a member, simply titled Jeremy Spencer, which is released in 1970. He is backed by Fleetwood, McVie, Kirwan, and Green.
October - Then Play On hits UK #6 and peaks at US #109, marking their debut on the Reprise label.
November - "Oh Well" hits UK #2. The song's religious overtones reflect Green's renouncement of his Jewish faith and his embracing of Christianity. He begins to appear on stage in a long white robe, underlining a new messiah image.
December 5 - Blues Jam at Chess/Fleetwood Mac in Chicago is released, featuring the group and a selection of blues greats recorded in January 1969.

[sharksfan2000]

Wow, that's an ambitious project, Moz! I just glanced at the first few non-birthday entries and here's one thing to correct: Peter Green first filled in for Clapton in the Bluesbreakers in August 1965, but only played a few gigs before Clapton returned. Green then took over in 1966 when Clapton left the Bluesbreakers permanently.

Also, Fleetwood Mac's actual debut performance at the Windsor Festival was on 13 August 1967. Seems like the actual date of this gets confused frequently.

Nice work so far, Moz. If you don't already have it, I recommend Christopher Hjort's book "Strange Brew" - it has a great day-by-day timeline for the 1960s and just into 1970, mostly for Fleetwood Mac, the Bluesbreakers, Cream, and the Stones.

[vermicious knid]

The early days are rather confusing to me because their singles,when released, wouldn't be on any album. I wonder in what era that practice ended.

[aleuzzi]

Keep going!

[jeremy spencer]

March 22? - When in Munich, Green, Fleetwood, Spencer and a road manager are invited to a party at a hippie mansion, called Highfish Commune, located in a forest. (It has been said that Green was invited not for company, but so that filmmaker Rainer Langhans and Uschi Obermaier could get in contact with Mick Taylor. Langhans and Obermaier wanted to hold a Bavarian Woodstock, with Jimi Hendrix and The Rolling Stones performing.)
Green unwittingly drinks wine spiked with LSD. Green stays at the party for 24 hours, spending time jamming in a basement. Dennis Keen, the road manager, gets bad vibes and leaves. Spencer and Fleetwood cook eggs. At a concert the next day, Green feels "marvelous, fresh and not grubby". Later, Green says that at Highfish, "he went on a trip, and never came back." His overuse of LSD may have contributed to his schizophrenia.

This is actually 1970. Just a few days before he announced his leaving FM one morning after a gig in Zurich.
And 'Marvellous, fresh and not grubby'? Wow. The acid must have really reversed his doors of perception.

[Moz]

This is actually 1970. Just a few days before he announced his leaving FM one morning after a gig in Zurich.
And 'Marvellous, fresh and not grubby'? Wow. The acid must have really reversed his doors of perception.

Thanks! The Munich incident happening in 1970 makes much more sense now. Some of these early dates are messing with my mind.
And I agree, quite the opposite happened, in my opinion. :distress:

[Moz]

The more I read about this band, the more I love it. This single cover (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Tgm7.jpg) rules!

1970
January - Spencer releases his first solo album, titled Jeremy Spencer, on which he is backed by Fleetwood Mac.
February 27 - Topping his increasingly erratic behaviour, Green tells the New Music Express that he is going to give all of his earnings away.
March - "Oh Well" reaches US #55.
March 22? - When in Munich, Green, Fleetwood, Spencer and a road manager are invited to a party at a hippie mansion, called Highfish Commune, located in a forest. (It has been said that Green was invited not for company, but so that filmmaker Rainer Langhans and Uschi Obermaier could get in contact with Mick Taylor. Langhans and Obermaier wanted to hold a Bavarian Woodstock, with Jimi Hendrix and The Rolling Stones performing.)
Green unwittingly drinks wine spiked with LSD. Green stays at the party for 24 hours, spending time jamming in a basement. Dennis Keen, the road manager, gets bad vibes and leaves. Spencer and Fleetwood cook eggs. :lol: At a concert the next day, Green feels "marvelous, fresh and not grubby". Later, Green says that at Highfish, "he went on a trip, and never came back." His overuse of LSD may have contributed to his schizophrenia.
April 11 - Green announces his departure of the band while in Zurich, the pressures of stardom now proving intolerable. To avoid breach of contract, he agrees to finish the tour and then leave.
April 25 - The group takes part in a music festival at Reading Football Club's ground in Reading, Berks., with Christine McVie and Chicken Shack.
May 24 - Green plays his last gig with the group at the Batch Festival, Bath, Somerset.
June - "The Green Manalishi (With The Two-Prong Crown)" hits UK #10. In his last single with the group, Green gives a graphic description of the mental terrors that have been haunting him.
August 8 - After earlier announcing she was quitting the music business for good to become a housewife, Christine McVie flies to the US to officially join Fleetwood Mac. The year previous, she was voted Melody Maker's Female Vocalist of the Year.
September 18 - Kiln House (named after the band's shared house in Alton, Hants.), the band's first post-Green album, and the last album to feature Jeremy Spencer, is released. Christine McVie drew the cover art and appeared on a few songs, although she won't be a full member of the band until a few months after the recording of Kiln House.
October - Kiln House reaches UK #39 and US #69.
November - Peter Green's first solo album, The End of the Game, is released, composed of free-form jams and instrumentals.
December - Fleetwood Mac embarks on a series of UK dates and buys Benifolds Mansion near Headley, Hampshire, where they will live and work together.

1971
Date Unknown - Fritz, a San Francisco based band, breaks up. Guitarist Lindsey Buckingham and singer Stevie Nicks would hit superstardom in just a few years time.
February - Spencer leaves abruptly during a US tour at the Hollywood Hawaiian Hotel, LA. He left to buy a book at Pickwick's Bookstore on Hollywood Boulevard and met a member of a religious group called the Children of God. When Spencer did not come back that night, the band called the police. Five days later he was found at the Children of God headquarters in downtown Los Angeles. It is later discovered that he has felt the same pressures as Green did. After Spencer's departure, the band cancels the scheduled Whisky-a-Go-Go dates before asking Green (who brings along conga player Nigel Watson) to replace Spencer for the rest of the tour. He obliges, and after the completion of the tour, Green returns to his self-imposed retirement.
April - After the troubled tour, the group is in disarray, having lost its two main guitarists and songwriters. Judy Wong, wife of Jethro Tull's bassist Glenn Cornick and friend of the band, introduces Fleetwood Mac to California-born guitarist Bob Welch. He joins, without having a proper audition, saving the band and becoming the first American member of Fleetwood Mac. Before joining the Mac, Welch played in a soul band called the Seven Souls, which breaks up in 1969. Welch goes on to form Head West, releasing one album in 1970.
July - Fleetwood Mac in Chicago, recorded two years earlier, reaches US #190.
September 3 - Future Games is released, the first Fleetwood Mac album featuring Bob Welch and Christine McVie as a full member.
October - "Black Magic Woman" peaks at US #143.
November - Future Games makes US #91. The band continues to tour the US extensively.
Greatest Hits, a compilation album, is released.

1972
February - Greatest Hits reaches UK #36.
April - Bare Trees is released. It will be the last album with Danny Kirwan.
May - Bare Trees makes US #70.
August - Kirwan (whose drinking has been getting harder to handle) leaves the band after refusing to appear on stage, and goes on to smash his head against a wall and breaks his Les Paul into pieces. He watches the group fail without him, and after the show, gives a negative review of the concert. He becomes the first member of Fleetwood Mac to be fired. After recording a few solo albums in the 1970s, he is placed in a psychiatric hospital and becomes homeless.
September - Dave Walker (also from Christine's hometown), ex-vocalist of Savoy Brown and Bob Weston, who met the band while on tour with Long John Baldry, are hired to replace Kirwan.
The new line-up performs at the North Carolina Motor Speedway, Rockingham, NC with Alice Cooper and others.

1973
March - Penguin, cut at the Rolling Stones' mobile studio, is released. It is the first album to feature Dave Walker and Bob Weston. The album reaches US #49. Peter Green makes a guest appearance, but despite this, the album fails to chart in the UK. The Fleetwood Mac penguin association is due to John McVie; he is a member of the London Zoological Society and has a tattoo of the bird on his right forearm.
June - Reissued "Albatross" hits UK #2. Dave Walker is asked to leave the band, once again leaving the band as a five-piece.
September - The band begins a tour to promote the forthcoming Mystery to Me album, and Weston begins an affair with Fleetwood's wife Jenny Boyd.
October 15 - Mystery to Me, also recorded at the Rolling Stones Mobile Studio is released. Welch's song "Hypnotized" becomes a radio staple and is covered by the Pointer Sisters in 1978.
October 23 - In Lincoln, Nebraska, Weston leaves the band after Fleetwood learns of the affair. Road manager John Cougar sacks Weston and puts sends him on a plane.
November 1 - Fleetwood Mac's manager Clifford Davis, furious at the group's decision to cut short the tour, tells Welch that he intends to form a new Fleetwood Mac to tour and asks Welch if he might be interested to take part in the new line-up. Welch calls the band at Benifolds and informs them of Davis's plan. Davis goes ahead and assembles a bogus band to fulfill the dates, which leads to a bitter year-long legal battle that almost killed the real Fleetwood Mac.
December - Mystery to Me makes US #57.

[SteveMacD]

Three corrections:

First, not so much a correct, but a suggestion. Instead of saying that Green quit on 4/11, it might make more sense to say that Green announced that he would be leaving the band on 4/11. He wasn't exactly a former member of Fleetwood Mac the next day.

Second, Weston and Walker joined in Sept. 1972, and were in the band during the show you listed.

Third, the two Weston albums were recorded on the Rolling Stones mobile studio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolling_Stones_Mobile_Studio) at Benifolds.

[aleuzzi]

Great job so far!

Did Christine fly out to meet them or did she debut with them at the Warehouse in New Orleans?

Also, you might want to mark the live-in-studio session dates she did with the band before the that first tour...(now compiled on Madison Blues set).

[aleuzzi]

Also include date for the release of "Dragonfly" single.

[snoot]

Nice work so far Moz. In the name of accuracy, a few suggestions:

Fleetwood and Green are fired from the Bluesbreakers

Mick was fired for drunkenness, but Green left the Bluesbreakers that summer simply to form his own group with Mick (and with hopes that John would follow). He was not fired tmk.

John McVie, fired from the Bluesbreakers

McVie had been fired by Mayall before for excessive imbibing (more than once in fact), but when he left the Bluesbreakers for good to join Fleetwood Mac, it was because he felt Mayall was moving things in a direction a bit too jazzy for his tastes by that point. He was not fired tmk.

Otis Spaan => Otis Spann
Jr. Walker => Junior Walker

March 1968 - A new blues boom hits Britian > typo
July 1968 - San Fransisco > typo
December 23 - Fleerwood Mac > typo

Then Play On is released. It includes songs by Danny Kirwan and Peter Green, with backing vocals by Christine Perfect. While Jeremy Spencer is still in the band, he only appears on a few songs, doing some "piano things."

What backing vocals did Christine provide? Also to my knowledge Jeremy only provided piano backing on the track Oh Well.

August 8 - Christine McVie flies to the US to join Fleetwood Mac, after reannouncing she is qutting the music business for good, to become a housewife.

[Suggest]: August 8 - After earlier announcing she was quitting the music business for good to become a housewife, Christine McVie flies to the US to officially join Fleetwood Mac.

Christine McVie drew the cover art and appeared on a few songs, although she won't be a full member of the band until a few months after the release of Kiln House.

... until a few months after the recording of Kiln House. Note: She was already an official member of FM by the time the album was released.

Jethro Tull's Glenn Cornick > might want to add Tull's bassist Glenn Cornick

November 1 - Fleetwood Mac's manager Clifford Davis, furious at the group's decision to cut short the tour, tells Welch that he intends to form a new Fleetwood Mac to tour and asks Welch if he might be interested to take part in the new line-up. Welch calls the band at Benifolds and informs them of Davis's plan. Davis goes ahead and assembles a bogus band to fulfill the dates, which leads to a bitter year-long legal battle that almost killed the real Fleetwood Mac.

Far more than any Welch hook, the bigger question remains: What was Mick's involvement with the bogus band, and did he commit to Davis to directly lend a hand? Inquiring minds would love to know Mick! :laugh:

Benifolds Mansion near Haslemere, Surrey, England

Might be more accurate to say in Headley, Hampshire, no?

All smart suggestions by sharksfan, JS, SteveMac and aleuzzi. I say book 'em Danno. Jb

[Moz]

Thanks for the corrections (and spellchecking, snoot) everyone! I really need to make sure everything is accurate before I put it on the internet, no?

Great job so far!

Did Christine fly out to meet them or did she debut with them at the Warehouse in New Orleans?

Also, you might want to mark the live-in-studio session dates she did with the band before the that first tour...(now compiled on Madison Blues set).

I've no idea. I'll check tour dates.

ETA: According to the Fleetwood Mac Legacy, the 1970 tour began January 2 at the Fillmore West in San Francisco. It would make more sense for her to debut with them instead of joining them in the middle of a tour, but August 8 (also at the Fillmore West) is the only date I have for Chris starting the tour.

When were those studio dates? When was that set released? :sorry:

Also include date for the release of "Dragonfly" single.

I don't know the exact release date with that (recorded late 1970, right?), nor how high it charted. I'll do a bit more digging around..

[Moz]

McVie had been fired by Mayall before for excessive imbibing (more than once in fact), but when he left the Bluesbreakers for good to join Fleetwood Mac, it was because he felt Mayall was moving things in a direction a bit too jazzy for his tastes by that point. He was not fired tmk.

What backing vocals did Christine provide? Also to my knowledge Jeremy only provided piano backing on the track Oh Well.

Benifolds Mansion near Haslemere, Surrey, England

Might be more accurate to say in Headley, Hampshire, no?


1. I thought I added that jazz bit in. Thanks for reminding me!
2. I think that was a typo, or maybe I'm just a little daft.
3. My geographic knowledge of England is nonexistent. :laugh:

[sharksfan2000]

July 16 - The band begins a six-week US tour.
August 5-10 - Fleetwood Mac plays at the Fillmore West, San Francisco, sharing the bill with Junior Walker

Moz, the band never made this summer '69 US tour - it was cancelled at the last minute. Again, the Christopher Hjort book is an excellent reference for this, though it's noted elsewhere too. The Legacy tour date web pages are helpful, but they contain a number of inaccuracies.


ETA: According to the Fleetwood Mac Legacy, the 1970 tour began January 2 at the Fillmore West in San Francisco. It would make more sense for her to debut with them instead of joining them in the middle of a tour, but August 8 (also at the Fillmore West) is the only date I have for Chris starting the tour

2 January would have been the band's first 1970 tour date, but their fall/winter US tour had actually begun in late November 1969. The band started their first post-Green tour in August 1970 in the US.

[snoot]

aleuzzi: Did Christine fly out to meet them or did she debut with them at the Warehouse in New Orleans?

Or both? And was it done eagerly, or with anticipation and/or reservation?

Moz: It would make more sense for her to debut with them instead of joining them in the middle of a tour, but August 8 (also at the Fillmore West) is the only date I have for Chris starting the tour.

Christine became an official member of the group at the beginning of the tour in the summer of '70, which purportedly began at the Warehouse Cafe in the Big Easy in August [might want to also confirm that Aug 8 date]. This was not long after the Kiln House project was completed, and before the album actually made it to the store shelves in the USA. Certain sources cite her official tenure as beginning at the start of the Future Games production, but I do not believe this is correct.

Moz: I don't know the exact release date with that (recorded late 1970, right?), nor how high it charted. I'll do a bit more digging around..

Dragonfly never charted AFAIK, either in the UK or US. Great single though, just ask Peter Green.

sharksfan2000: Moz, the band never made this summer '69 US tour - it was cancelled at the last minute.

That's what I had thought also. Good you have that reference book to keep us drones honest. ;)

Getting tour dates fixed is always a bitch. To my knowledge, the first 6 USA tours went as follows [front line personnel bracketed]:
- Summer of '68 [Green, Spencer]
- Winter of '68 [Green, Spencer, Kirwan]
- Winter of '69 [Green, Spencer, Kirwan]
- Summer of '70 [Spencer, Kirwan, C. McVie]
- Spring of '71 [Spencer, Kirwan, C. McVie] => [Green, Kirwan, C. McVie]
- Autumn of '71 [Kirwan, McVie, Welch]

Maybe your Hjort source can confirm this sharksfan.

Getting any sort of factual minutiae down is always rough going, that much more so when done in retrospect and so many years later (and with so many conflicting accounts claiming one thing or another). Even Green's and McVie's departures from the Bluesbreakers remain a tad controversial, with some claiming - erroneously imo - one or both were fired (as opposed to leaving of their own accord, or when their contracts expired). And on and on it goes...

[SteveMacD]

My hunch is that Christine officially joined the band prior to the Kiln House tour, but they said she was a "guest" because she was still under contract with Blue Horizon. I think that's also partially why she started going by Christine McVie. I mean, she DID work as Christine Perfect for a while after she married John.

[snoot]

My hunch is that Christine officially joined the band prior to the Kiln House tour, but they said she was a "guest" because she was still under contract with Blue Horizon. I think that's also partially why she started going by Christine McVie. I mean, she DID work as Christine Perfect for a while after she married John.

I don't think so Steve, for a couple of reasons. For starters, the tour followed very closely on the heels of the KH sessions. If she signed on prior to the actual tour, that would have made her an official member of the group during the Kiln House project, and I think that can be pretty much ruled out (unless you mean a very short time before the tour). I never heard of any FM contract being signed by CM prior to that summer of '70 tour. Beyond that, her relatively light involvement on Kiln House would strongly point to her enlistment a side player only. I think the only sure-fire way she could have been induced out of "retirement" was with the allure of becoming a full fledged member of the Mac. To my knowledge, that BH contract did more to bind her recording-wise than it did regarding stage or live performances.

If it had not been for those BH contractual obligations (and recording resistance), I'm positive Christy would have been credited as being a guest artist on the Kiln House project in addition to the album artwork acknowledgement she did receive, but not as a direct member of the band. Maybe Jeremy will spot this and give us his assessment and recollections. I'd also be interested to know where Kiln House was recorded - I've heard it was at that country estate, but were they really set up as such in that rental to pull off a full project? I know FM recorded a lot at CBS Studios on New Bond, and later at Advision in London. But what about Kiln House, and Then Play On for that matter? Bust out your reference books boys, or JS put on your thinking cap and do tell.

[snoot]

Thinking back on it, could they have been done at Kingsway Recorders, the old De Lane Lea studios? Or maybe Olympic Studios in London? What can I say ... the mind is a terrible thing to lose. :rolleyes:

[Norton]

Benifolds is definately in Hampshire (but close to the border of Hampshire/Sussex/Surrey). Haslemere in Surrey is only a few miles away.... here is an ariel photo..

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&t=k&ll=51.120159,-0.815499&z=17

[snoot]

Yes, and how delicious is the irony that one of the key stretches of road between Kiln House and Benifolds is <> Green Street <> :thumbsup:

[SteveMacD]

For starters, the tour followed very closely on the heels of the KH sessions. If she signed on prior to the actual tour, that would have made her an official member of the group during the Kiln House project, and I think that can be pretty much ruled out (unless you mean a very short time before the tour).

That's exactly what I meant. I think she became an official member of the band, at least as far as the rest of the band was concerned, contract or no, when she agreed to go on tour and began rehearsing for the tour with them, and was an official member of the band when she flew out with them to New Orleans. Again, maybe not under a contract (for legal reasons), but at least in spirit.

I also contend that the "guest" stuff and deciding to change her name over to McVie was due in large part to the BH contract.

[nicepace]

I also contend that the "guest" stuff and deciding to change her name over to McVie was due in large part to the BH contract.

I also think that Christine hated being named "Perfect" and that contributed to her changing her name to McVie. I doubt that she ever really considered keeping her own name, even professionally, despite the fact that she had an established reputation with that name.

[Moz]

About Chris officially joining, Mick says: "Before we went on the road in America with that album [Kiln House], we asked her to join."
Chris: "Ten days later I was in America, in New Orleans. I'd never been to America in my life... with Fleetwood Mac! I couldn't believe it."
Mick: "She learned the songs in New Orleans before the first show."

On Wikipedia it says Kiln House was recorded during June and July 1970 and was released September 18. The last show before the recording was May 28 in London, with an additional show on July 9. The first show after the recording of Kiln House was on August 1 at the Warehouse Cafe in New Orleans. Judging by what Christine and Mick say on the Mick Fleetwood Story dvd, I imagine Chris joined sometime at the end of July 1970, with her first show on August 1.

Just for kicks, here are some pictures from August 28-29 (or a few days before/after) 1970 in NYC, shortly after Christine went on tour.
http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z245/buckinghamnicks77/Mick%20Fleetwood%20Story%20part%201/vlcsnap-00160.png

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z245/buckinghamnicks77/Mick%20Fleetwood%20Story%20part%201/vlcsnap-00159.png

Also, does anyone have an exact date for the day Jeremy left the band? I'm watching The Mick Fleetwood Story and Mick says he left around the time of the earthquake in LA. I did a little bit of research into February 1971 earthquakes in California. One happened on February 9, at 6:0o am, in the San Fernando Valley. Then Mick says, "that afternoon, maybe within three hours, he was gone." So, does February 9 sound correct? (I'm aware that Jeremy might not have announced his departure that day, considering he was 'missing' for anywhere between three to five days. So, I guess it could've happened somewhere between the 12-15th after the band found him.)

From Wikipedia: "Shortly before a journey of the band from San Francisco to Los Angeles, LA experienced a major earthquake. Being in a fragile mental state and filled with strong negative premonitions, Spencer was very apprehensive about having to travel to LA. He unsuccessfully pleaded with Fleetwood to cancel this leg of the tour. Shortly after arriving in LA, and on the day of a gig the group was scheduled to perform at the Whiskey A Go Go, Spencer left the hotel room he shared with Fleetwood to visit a bookshop on Hollywood Boulevard. Spencer did not return, however, forcing the cancellation of that evening's concert, while the band and members of their entourage went searching for him. Some days later, he was found to have joined the religious group the Children of God, and he declared that he no longer wanted to be involved with Fleetwood Mac."

However, according to the Fleetwood Mac Legacy tour dates page, FM had dates scheduled for Feb. 11, 12, 13, 14 at the Fillmore West in San Francisco. There was another gig on the 19th in San Bernardino, and after that they went to the east coast. It says Jeremy's last concert was on February 14.

[Moz]

I also think that Christine hated being named "Perfect" and that contributed to her changing her name to McVie. I doubt that she ever really considered keeping her own name, even professionally, despite the fact that she had an established reputation with that name.

Here's a quote from the Penguin bio on Christine:

Incidentally, she claims that it was difficult growing up with the surname 'Perfect': "My schoolteacher would say to me, 'Well I certainly hope you are, Christine.' It was severe... a lot of people ask me why I still keep my married name, now that I'm no longer married, and the answer is obvious-- because I didn't like the name Perfect! "

[Wouter Vuijk]

Nice work so far Moz. In the name of accuracy, a few suggestions:

What backing vocals did Christine provide? Also to my knowledge Jeremy only provided piano backing on the track Oh Well.



Oh Well wasn't part of the original release (UK) of Then Play On. Thus one could say that Jeremy didn't take any part in the album.:distress:

[snoot]

Joanne:
I also think that Christine hated being named "Perfect" and that contributed to her changing her name to McVie. I doubt that she ever really considered keeping her own name, even professionally, despite the fact that she had an established reputation with that name.

*FACT* :D

Moz:
About Chris officially joining, Mick says: "Before we went on the road in America with that album [Kiln House], we asked her to join."
Chris: "Ten days later I was in America, in New Orleans. I'd never been to America in my life... with Fleetwood Mac! I couldn't believe it."
Mick: "She learned the songs in New Orleans before the first show."

That sums it up nicely, and is about where SteveMac and I placed it - just after the Kiln House project, and just before the performance at The Warehouse. Brings everything to full (explanatory) circle in regards to aleuzzi and my earlier exchange to boot.

Moz:
The first show after the recording of Kiln House was on August 1 at the Warehouse Cafe in New Orleans.

If Aug 1 can be confirmed, then Chris was technically a member either in mid-to-late July, or at the beginning of August per that first performance (as is often cited). In the same vein, it's hard to say whether Fleetwood Mac was "formed" in July of 1967 during early rehearsals, or on August 13 per their first official performance at Windsor.

Wouter: [I]
Oh Well wasn't part of the original release (UK) of Then Play On. Thus one could say that Jeremy didn't take any part in the album. :distress:

Good point Wouter! Technically it could be argued Jeremy was completely absent from the TPO release. Wow. :shocked:

OTOH :: Oh Well was recorded and released as a single during the same period (and sessions), so it's kind of hard to think of TPO as being sans Oh Well. The Yanks sure never saw it that way, and they are after all what came to really matter after TPO was released! [-- with the falling off the radar the band took in the UK and much of Europe after Green departed, and their gradual embrace on this side of the Atlantic particularly after the release of Then Play On. Some in Europe were even abandoning FM shortly after TPO was released and before Green left, claiming the Mac had "sold out" their blues roots!]

[snoot]

Moz: Also, does anyone have an exact date for the day Jeremy left the band?

Well the band was in the midst of the Fillmore West run in SF when the Sylmar quake occurred [Feb 9], one of the true "biggies" that crumpled a swath of SoCal. That shaker claimed some 65 lives and rung up more than half a billion dollars in damage, to include the destruction of a few freeway interchanges, two hospitals, and part of the Van Norman Dam. While still in NorCal, Jeremy saw all that occurred as a bad portend. He was already in a pretty uneasy state of mind as it was, his self-doubt regarding his star-power having risen to the fore, and then there was an untimely dose of mescaline compounding matters. All helped to create a pretty fiery psychological mix.

It is well known that JS disappeared on the day the group arrived in L.A., not long after they checked into that ramshackle hotel. They were scheduled to perform that night at the Whisky on the Sunset Strip. The recurring aftershocks from the earlier earthquake, the gray and yellow smog that prevailed in the air partly from the destruction, all must have seemed eerie beyond belief. Then again, perhaps it was just his time. After all, he saw his pal Peter begin to mentally unravel due to the pressures of rock success before him, coupled with excessive substance indulgence and personal insecurities (as would Danny but a few short years after him). That makes for a rather sad c'est la vie summation for any and all involved.

However in Spencer's case, he was always predisposed to a more religious view of things going back to his first days in the band (stage appearances notwithstanding), so it could be argued he simply found his true calling with the Children Of God in the wild haze of LA. Be that as it may, one would have to determine (or confirm) the last date the band performed at the Fillmore to pinpoint things better. They had a series of engagements there, that I know. Or of course the nixed Whisky A Go Go concert date!


Heck, even Lindsey Buckingham admitted that touring, and the myriad of pressures and temptations that come with it, would have destroyed him after the Tango project! And so he refused to take the plunge (well, for an additional 10 years anyway).

EDIT: You're doing a good job as it is zeroing in on it Moz. You just need to pinpoint the Last Fillmore SF or first Whisky LA date. Where is sharksfan and that Hjorte bible he packs when you need 'em! :cool:

[Moz]

Thanks for all the insight!

Or of course the nixed Whisky A Go Go concert date!


I never thought about this before... but when was that concert supposed to happen?

[snoot]

Thanks for all the insight! I never thought about this before... but when was that concert supposed to happen?

Ha! The same day they arrived in LA, the Whisky being located between Hollywood to the east and Beverly Hills to the west and south, all part of greater Los Angeles metro (burbs upon more burbs in reality, with cities overlapping ever greater cities in a blurring of boundaries). This would have been the day after their final Fillmore West appearance in San Francisco, and less than a week before Swing Auditorium.

I had a ticket stub to The Swing in San Berdoo that followed thereafter once upon a time, but damn if I can find it now. May possibly be in an old scrapbook -- I know I once saved some wicked concert events in such things - but where are those precious things buried this many years later! Sadly I've moved a lot. Arrghhh :(

[SteveMacD]

Here's a quote from the Penguin bio on Christine:

Incidentally, she claims that it was difficult growing up with the surname 'Perfect': "My schoolteacher would say to me, 'Well I certainly hope you are, Christine.' It was severe... a lot of people ask me why I still keep my married name, now that I'm no longer married, and the answer is obvious-- because I didn't like the name Perfect! "

Yeah, but she continued to work with Chicken Shack and even released a solo album as Christine Perfect while being Mrs. John McVie. And, maybe she did hate the last name. (I know mine annoys me, though not enough to legally change it.) But, intitially that wasn't enough to take John's name publicly.

And, after the divorce, it wouldn't have made sense for Christine to go back to Perfect, as she had just sold 21 million albums and sang lead on four top fifteen singles as Christine McVie.

[sharksfan2000]

Moz: Also, does anyone have an exact date for the day Jeremy left the band?

EDIT: You're doing a good job as it is zeroing in on it Moz. You just need to pinpoint the Last Fillmore SF or first Whisky LA date. Where is sharksfan and that Hjorte bible he packs when you need 'em! :cool:
Hjort bible! :laugh: Seriously, it's the best day-by-day account I've seen of Fleetwood Mac from its inception (and many events leading up to the band's formation) up to Peter Green's departure. I think there are things in the book that are open to question, but overall it seems very well researched and it's about as comprehensive as could be expected given the time since the events took place. But the scope of the book is limited and it does not cover post-Green Fleetwood Mac.

The FM Legacy site does have reproductions of concert posters for the February '71 Fillmore West and Swing Auditorium shows but not from the Whiskey shows. The 11-14 Feb. dates for the Fillmore and 19 Feb. date for the Swing appear to be correct based on the posters (see attached images). Posters are not always reliable - for example, there's a poster from those 8/69 Fillmore West dates that were cancelled, and I've seen other questionable posters as well - but there doesn't seem to be any particular reason to doubt the accuracy of these 2/71 dates.

[snoot]

The early days are rather confusing to me because their singles,when released, wouldn't be on any album. I wonder in what era that practice ended.

A lot of the times for sure, but never as an absolute rule either. That practice kind of faded away by the end of the 60's, when Top 20 + Top 40 charts began to be rivaled by FM (extended play) radio. The early '70s programming movement away from Top 40 AM put something of a damper on the traditional over-emphasis of letting singles rule the day, which the record companies couldn't help but eventually recognize. Whole albums could be heard regularly on the best FM stations, and many songs that never got the play they deserved on the AM dial could be heard, often frequently, on the FM side in what some have called the "golden age of integrity programming." DJ's began playing what they wanted instead of what they were told, and prog rock, blues-rock and psychedelia in particular finally stood chance!

This included, as it pertained to the Mac, FM radio staples (quasi-hits) like Hypnotized, Station Man, Sentimental Lady, and Bermuda Triangle. It also included many of the PG era hits that charted in the UK like Albatross, Oh Well, Man Of The World and The Green Manalishi. Hard to believe that only one of those - Oh Well - charted stateside out of that whole pack! :shocked: That's not to say that none of those tunes ever made it to the AM side, they did, but either as localized (regional) faves or by request.

[snoot]

Hjort bible! :laugh: Seriously, it's the best day-by-day account I've seen of Fleetwood Mac from its inception (and many events leading up to the band's formation) up to Peter Green's departure.

Excellent find Sharkman, we knew you'd come through. :thumbsup:

Those dates look pretty good to me, based on what I know. I think the JS disappearing act could safely be dated Feb 15th now, pending some new revelation. I actually posted that date earlier, but decided to edit it out as I could easily see it being bumped up or down by a day or two or three in all the smoke and haze.

Great poster finds also! That Swing is a keeper, for me more of a keepsake. :D And I never knew IABD - another one of my fave bands (and definite top favorite of the psychedelic genre) headlined immediately after the Mac at the Fillmore on their winter swing thru! I'm positive that would have been part of the Marrying Maiden tour, when the band still featured Hal Wagenet on guitar and Mitch Holman on bass. Alas, they were soon to exit stage left.

btw it's the Whisky A Go Go, not Whiskey (a mistake we all make, since the drink cuts both ways). :p

[sharksfan2000]

A lot of the times for sure, but never as an absolute rule either. That practice kind of faded away by the end of the 60's, when Top 20 + Top 40 charts began to be rivaled by FM (extended play) radio.
I think that's pretty accurate for the practice of releasing singles that were not included on albums at that particular time, but it certainly was not unusual during the punk/post-punk era in the later '70s and early '80s, and continued to some extent into the '90s at least.

btw it's the Whisky A Go Go, not Whiskey
Thanks for the correction - not sure I knew that.

[snoot]

I think that's pretty accurate for the practice of releasing singles that were not included on albums at that particular time, but it certainly was not unusual during the punk/post-punk era in the later '70s and early '80s, and continued to some extent into the '90s at least.

Interesting. I'm not sure if that was because the impact of FM radio - as we once knew it - had faded somewhat by then, or it was just due to my overall lack of interest in the punk, techno and grunge.*

Hey does Hjort indicate the recording studio for the TPO sessions and Kiln House by chance? I'm racking my brains trying to recall where those projects were done respectively, as I probably knew once upon a time but have lost a ****load of brains cells since. Ah... you know the bit. [x] cringe [x]
--------+
*PS. I should add I do enjoy a lot of 80's stuff, bands like the Pretenders, Eurythmics, Heart, Katrina & The Waves, Berlin, Quarterflash, and the Motels. Do any of those queen size bands count? In fairness I don't really think Stevie Ray Vaughan, the Fabulous Thunderbirds, Huey Lewis or Asia qualify as such.

[sharksfan2000]

Interesting. I'm not sure if that was because the impact of FM radio - as we once knew it - had faded somewhat by then, or it was just due to my overall lack of interest in the punk, techno and grunge.
I'm guessing it was in large part due to the rise of indie labels during those years, and their pressing more singles (which could be done more cheaply) than full albums - so in many cases by the time an LP was released, most fans would already have the singles. And there was a feeling on the part of some bands that they didn't want to have their fans pay twice for a song - once on a single and then later included on an LP. Not always the case, to be sure, and there certainly must have been a bunch more reasons too.

Hey does Hjort indicate the recording studio for the TPO sessions and Kiln House by chance?
Hjort writes that the TPO sessions were at De Lane Lea, while Peter Lewry's book "Fleetwood Mac - The Complete Recording Sessions 1967-1997" says "studio unknown". Lewry's book shows the KH sessions taking place at Kiln House (this is not covered in Hjort's book). I seem to recall reading someplace that the band used the Rolling Stones' mobile studio for the KH sessions - does that sound right to anyone or did I just imagine it?

I missed this bit in Hjort's book before, regarding Christine McVie's joining the band....he writes that she joined the group on every date of their US tour that began in New Orleans, but that she was not officially a member of the band at first. He goes on to write that within a week of the New Orleans show, the UK music press was given the news that she was now a member of Fleetwood Mac and that she now wanted to be known as Christine McVie rather than Perfect. Mick Fleetwood's book says pretty much the same thing, but makes it sound like Christine was already officially a band member at the beginning of the tour. As others have noted in this thread, there might have been contractual issues to deal with here.

[snoot]

I'm guessing it was in large part due to the rise of indie labels during those years, and their pressing more singles (which could be done more cheaply) than full albums - so in many cases by the time an LP was released, most fans would already have the singles.

Indie labels, yes I could see that being a big part of the equation. As for the single resurgence, what medium was being utilized? Wouldn't much of that time frame be post-45's, but pre-digital? There was no Internet around until the early 90's, for all intents and purposes. Was there some kind of mini-CDs or discs that blew right by me?

Hjort writes that the TPO sessions were at De Lane Lea, while Peter Lewry's book "Fleetwood Mac - The Complete Recording Sessions 1967-1997" says "studio unknown". Lewry's book shows the KH sessions taking place at Kiln House (this is not covered in Hjort's book). I seem to recall reading someplace that the band used the Rolling Stones' mobile studio for the KH sessions - does that sound right to anyone or did I just imagine it?

Ah De Lane Lea, eh? I suspected as much but couldn't be sure. I believe they returned to the Music Centre for the Bare Trees production a bit later. As for Kiln House, I suppose this could be true, as I have it loosely in my head that they did that recording while dug in at the KH rental estate. We also know they recorded Penguin and Mystery To Me with the RSMS a few years later. But still, I have my nagging doubts. And if RSMS didn't actually factor in that early on, I can't believe they were self-equipped either, at least not per that time and place. Then again, how early did Pete Townsend set himself up?

How did that old Focus tune go? Questions, Answers? Answers, Questions! :shrug:

I missed this bit in Hjort's book before, regarding Christine McVie's joining the band....he writes that she joined the group on every date of their US tour that began in New Orleans, but that she was not officially a member of the band at first. He goes on to write that within a week of the New Orleans show, the UK music press was given the news that she was now a member of Fleetwood Mac and that she now wanted to be known as Christine McVie rather than Perfect.

Interesting, and but another twist on the CM enlistment theme. I think it could best be guesstimated as August 1, if for no other reason than it works out to be the most agreeable compromise via all the takes.

[sharksfan2000]

Indie labels, yes I could see that being a big part of the equation. As for the single resurgence, what medium was being utilized? Wouldn't much of that time frame be post-45's, but pre-digital? There was no Internet around until the early 90's, for all intents and purposes. Was there some kind of mini-CDs or discs that blew right by me?
Still mainly 45's in the late '70s, and increasingly 12" singles by the early '80s. CD singles started coming out later in the '80s (same format as regular CDs, just less music on them), but 12" vinyl singles have never completely gone away.

A side note....one of the first really big-selling 12" singles was New Order's "Blue Monday" in 1983, which was not included on their subsequent LP Power, Corruption & Lies. But similar to "Oh Well" and Then Play On, "Blue Monday" was added to the later CD release of PC&L.

[snoot]

Still mainly 45's in the late '70s, and increasingly 12" singles by the early '80s. CD singles started coming out later in the '80s (same format as regular CDs, just less music on them), but 12" vinyl singles have never completely gone away.

A side note....one of the first really big-selling 12" singles was New Order's "Blue Monday" in 1983, which was not included on their subsequent LP Power, Corruption & Lies. But similar to "Oh Well" and Then Play On, "Blue Monday" was added to the later CD release of PC&L.

Wild. Most of that went right by me at the time. 12'' singles, waka! I swear the last 45 I purchased must have been On The Road Again by Canned Heat. Or maybe something by CCR or the Doors or - for christ's sake - Country Joe & The Fish [ please say noooooooooooo ]. :sorry: lol

Now I've always been gullible I suppose, but never so much so as when I raised my fist to Country Joe's fish cheer. "And forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us" ... blah blah blah

[doodyhead]

Country Joe did a fund raiser for a club i am in, this past summer to help us maintain a Hudson River Sloop called the "Woody Guthrie". It was built by Pete Seeger ,who is in the club, in 78, and Pete turned around and donated it to the club, providing we kept it afloat. Country Joe was doing a Woody Guthrie tribute tour and did the whole show for us. He may be banged about from the 60's but still has his wits about him and was a great show and is a good CD. The Fish were bigger than the DEad and Jefferson Airplane for a time. It would seem that Peter took a liking to him.

even if he was "rockhead"


sorry for the digression



doodyhead

[aleuzzi]

Moz, Keep going with the timeline! Don't let our frequent two cents and comments for revision deter you! I want to see more

[snoot]

Country Joe did a fund raiser for a club i am in, this past summer to help us maintain a Hudson River Sloop called the "Woody Guthrie". He may be banged about from the 60's but still has his wits about him and was a great show and is a good CD. The Fish were bigger than the DEad and Jefferson Airplane for a time.

Not sure if they were ever bigger than the Dead or Airplane (you think?) but McDonald did have a nice little run there for a while. Not sure if you knew this, but he was sued for copyright infringement over his signature Fixing-To-Die-Rag anthem a few years back by Kid Ory's daughter, she claiming the chorus refrain was a ripoff of Muskrat Ramble, Ory's old Dixieland jazz standard. At the end of the day, the court didn't see it that way, awarding McDonald some $750,000 for attorney's fees and costs, after finding the complaint "objectively unreasonable." The decision was later upheld upon appeal, forcing Ory's daughter to sell the same very copyrights to fulfill the debt! Sweet justice over but another frivolous lawsuit and money grab? :p You tell me.

Though the Fish were an early example of psychedelic rock, it was often a case of acid rock gone wrong. With the exception of a few memorable tunes and blues licks, most of their stuff was too far out in left field, and fairly blasé and forgettable into the bargain (imo). On MacDonald's Superstitious Blues solo project, Jerry Garcia does make a guest appearance on the guitar on some of the tracks which is worth noting.

Moz, Keep going with the timeline! Don't let our frequent two cents and comments for revision deter you! I want to see more

Yes, but those points of debate and "detours" often make for the best discussion, no?

To add to the din, onward Moz! :laugh:

[Moz]

Right now I'm going through Mick's book, finding more information. Hopefully I'll be able to update it during the weekend,

[snoot]

Ah take all the time you need, the old guard and true Mac faithful aren't going anywhere - and we blow the pants off all those Stevie drones found ruminating elsewhere (across the hall). Ha! :D

Keep an eye out in whatever source material you have for where Kiln House was recorded. That one really interests me, though I'm not sure why.

[Moz]

ETA: Added dates for Jan. 25 and Feb. 5, 6, 7 1969 to the timeline (first post on first page).

I took a peek at my Kiln House LP and, unsurprisingly, it didn't say where it was recorded. Hopefully Mick's book will give some clues.

About the Dragonfly single: I found this at this site (chrisgoesrocks.blogspot.com/2007_11_11_archive.html) : They also released a single at that time; "Dragonfly" b/w "The Purple Dancer" in the U.K. and certain European countries. The single was not a success and the B-side has only been reissued once, on a Reprise German-only "Best of" album, making it one of their most obscure songs.
I found a release date of March 5, 1971. Does that sound right?

From this site (http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:tI6h_DElNtwJ:conda.blog.hr/arhiva-2006-10.html+kiln+house+recorded+mobile+studio+fleetwood+mac&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=24&gl=ca), more about Christine joining the band: Christine made her first appearance with the band at Bristol University in May 1969 just as she was leaving Chicken Shack. She had had success with the Etta James classic, "I'd Rather Go Blind", and was twice voted female artist of the year in England. Christine McVie played her first gig as an official member on August 6, 1970 in New Orleans.
August 6! I don't know if that's correct, but it's quite close to the guesstimation (I hate that word) of August 1.

Peter filling in after Jeremy left: Liable for the remaining shows on the tour they convinced Peter Green to help finish the tour. He brought along his friend, Nigel Watson, who played the congas (twenty-five years later Green and Watson would collaborate again to form the Peter Green Splinter Group).
Is this true?

As for finishing this timeline, I'm facing a bit of a dilemma. The rest of the information I have yet to post on here are tidbits from '67-73 and everything from 1974 (since this is the pre-Rumours forum, I won't write up the stuff after Stevie and Lindsey joined). Should I continue on and add solo albums and other works Pete, Danny, Jeremy, etc. released after 1974? And what about Mick's albums, John's cd, and Christine's albums? I mean, they were in the pre-Rumours Fleetwood Mac. I'm also considering adding albums John Mayall recorded, and personal information, like when the band members were married, but I'm not sure if anyone would be interested in seeing that.

And a completely unrelated question: What albums came with inserts/lyric sheets? I have the original version of Mystery to Me with "Good Things (Come To Those That Wait", but no lyric sheet (grieve_not, a member of livejournal.com, said so).

And memorabilia and merchandise--what was made? I know Peter had a sticker that said "Fleetwood Mac is swift" on a guitar case, there were two Penguin-era bumper stickers, and on the back of Heroes Are Hard to Find, Bob is wearing a shirt that simply reads "Fleetwood Mac".

EDIT: I got a usb record player for Christmas, so I am able to transfer records to mp3 format. I'd like to get "Good Things" up here for people to download, since it was never released on CD (as far as I know). If it's not on CD, it's not commercially available, so... my question is: would I get in trouble (from mods, admin, etc.) if I posted it here? And what other songs would I be able to upload?

[sharksfan2000]

Peter filling in after Jeremy left: Liable for the remaining shows on the tour they convinced Peter Green to help finish the tour. He brought along his friend, Nigel Watson, who played the congas (twenty-five years later Green and Watson would collaborate again to form the Peter Green Splinter Group).
Is this true?
Yes - that's pretty well documented. You can hear Watson on congas (presumably that's him on congas) during the extended jam of Tell Me All The Things You Do on the bootleg recording of part of the 19 February 1971 San Bernardino show.

[Norton]

As listed on Dinkys world

http://www.dinkysworld.com/fleetwood%20mac%20gigs.htm

Hope this helps...

[Norton]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigel_Watson_(musician)


After Green left Fleetwood Mac in 1970, he worked with Watson on two solo singles, Heavy Heart and Beasts of Burden, the latter being credited to both musicians. Watson also accompanied Green as conga player on a tour of the United States with Fleetwood Mac, after Jeremy Spencer left the band and they asked Green to fill in and help them fulfil their tour obligations. Watson was at that time the brother-in-law of Fleetwood Mac's manager Clifford Davis.

In 1996, Watson and Green started working together again, and Watson was influential in persuading Green to return to music after he had been musically idle for several years. They formed the Peter Green Splinter Group, and released several albums over the following few years until the group split in 2004. Green was not always comfortable taking centre-stage when playing live, and Watson provided an extra focus onstage, singing as well as playing lead guitar. He also composed many songs recorded for the albums.

[dino]

As listed on Dinkys world

http://www.dinkysworld.com/fleetwood%20mac%20gigs.htm

Hope this helps...


Thanks for the Dinly link!
Allowed me to clear up a few mysteries.
The list seems slightly incomplete, though.

[snoot]

I took a peek at my Kiln House LP and, unsurprisingly, it didn't say where it was recorded. Hopefully Mick's book will give some clues.

Where is Jeremy when you need him? Probably off in Norway recording more sweet blues licks with Liland & Co! I'm gonna have to ask a few old friends if I can track them down, as we need to fish this out once and for all.

I found a release date [for Dragonfly" b/w "The Purple Dancer] of March 5, 1971. Does that sound right?

Sounds about right, though these tracks may have been recorded during the previous year.

As for finishing this timeline, I'm facing a bit of a dilemma. <snip> I won't write up the stuff after Stevie and Lindsey joined.

Best left for another day, another time indeed.

Should I continue on and add solo albums and other works Pete, Danny, Jeremy, etc. released after 1974?

Well at least through the 70's if nothing else, since all of their early solo projects happened during that time period. After that it may become more "extraneous."

And what about Mick's albums, John's cd, and Christine's albums? I mean, they were in the pre-Rumours Fleetwood Mac.

Again, probably best left with a cut off date at the end of the 70's (imo). Christine Perfect is perfect, but not so sure about Mick's Zoo, as it is more associated with B&N era links and personnel. Others may see this in another way though.

I'm also considering adding albums John Mayall recorded, and personal information, like when the band members were married, but I'm not sure if anyone would be interested in seeing that.

I wouldn't trail off too much on Herr Mayall either, short of noting his Bluesbreakers front as being the genesis and starting point of the Mac foundation. JM is a story all by his lonesome, one as diverse and roller-coastered in its telling as the Mac. That fire he suffered in '79 in Laurel Canyon here in SoCal could be a chapter all of its own! As for FM band members' marriages, I see no reason why not. :shrug:

Inserts/lyric sheets, memorabilia and merchandise -- all good stuff, but may get a bit extraneous again, especially for a timeline. One need look no further than eBay for more on this of course. However Bob's "Fleetwood Mac" T shirt is signature cool as can be (he does it such modest and indentured justice). :laugh:

We really need to get him one titled "Fleetwood Mac HOF Leftover" :cool:

[snoot]

Peter filling in after Jeremy left: Liable for the remaining shows on the tour they convinced Peter Green to help finish the tour. He brought along his friend, Nigel Watson, who played the congas (twenty-five years later Green and Watson would collaborate again to form the Peter Green Splinter Group).
Is this true?

Sharksfan and Norton sum this up quite sufficiently. Peter and Nigel were playing in 'Berdoo the same day Davis flew them in from London. And with less than an hour of practice to get to know the KH set!

Thanks for the Dinly link! Allowed me to clear up a few mysteries. The list seems slightly incomplete, though.

Curious, but in what ways do you notice?

This did catch my attention though:

1969 De Lane Lea recording
April 18 :: May 6 :: May 15 :: May 18 :: May 31 :: June 6:: June 8 :: July 2-4:: Aug 3

Could a chunk of the above be the dates of the TPO sessions?

And of course 1968 Oct 30
"CBS w Mike Vernon & Mike Ross" ... not sure if there was any leftover material carried from here to TPO to boot. Don't think Albatross was recorded this late however -- though it was released late in '68 and charted in early '69. Hmmm...

Finally 1970 De Lane Lea recording
April 14 - 20 :: April 28 - 30 ...

What does the good book Hjort have to say on this sharkman? :D Possibly the Manalishi farewell?

[sharksfan2000]

This did catch my attention though:

1969 De Lane Lea recording
April 18 :: May 6 :: May 15 :: May 18 :: May 31 :: June 6:: June 8 :: July 2-4:: Aug 3

Could a chunk of the above be the dates of the TPO sessions?

And of course 1968 Oct 30
"CBS w Mike Vernon & Mike Ross" ... not sure if there was any leftover material carried from here to TPO to boot. Don't think Albatross was recorded this late however -- though it was released late in '68 and charted in early '69. Hmmm...

Finally 1970 De Lane Lea recording
April 14 - 20 :: April 28 - 30 ...

What does the good book Hjort have to say on this sharkman? :D Possibly the Manalishi farewell?

Hjort has something to say about almost everything :laugh: Just to make clear what the focus of his book is - he's following John Mayall, Eric Clapton, Peter Green, and Mick Taylor in great detail from the beginning of 1965 to the end of 1970. That's why he has almost nothing to say about Fleetwood Mac after Green departed. Hjort has this to say about those particular recording dates:

30 October 1968: The band (minus Kirwan) recorded Spencer's mock radio show "The Milton Schlitz Show" that was supposed to be for an upcoming EP, but went unreleased until The Vaudeville Years discs in 1998. Hjort lists "Albatross" being recorded at CBS Studios on 6 October, and possibly further work being done on it there during the week of 14-18 October.

Those various spring & summer 1969 dates: of those, Hjort lists 18 April, 15 May, 31 May, 8 June, and 2-4 July for recording tracks for Then Play On. He adds mixing TPO at the studio on 12 July, and recording tracks for Spencer's solo LP on 25 July (and also 30 August and either 22 or 23 September). Hjort notes the 3 August date was for recording both parts of "Oh Well". Also, he lists 18 September as the date for recording Green's "Fast Talkin' Woman Blues" (an update of his earlier "Drifting") and Kirwan's "Tell Me From the Start", both of which showed up on The Vaudeville Years.

14-20 April / 28-30 April 1970: Snoot, you're correct about "The Green Manalishi" being recording at this time. Hjort writes that it was recorded on the 14th (28 takes!). "World In Harmony" was recorded on the 16th-17th (a take from the 16th was used for the master), and on the 17th Kirwan also recorded two new instrumentals. More work was done on these two instrumental tracks on the 20th - one of these was later released on The Vaudeville Years as "Farewell" (the predecessor to "Earl Grey" from Kiln House), while it seems the second one has never been released. Hjort does not mention any De Lane Lea recordings later in April, only a BBC session on the 27th, where "Sandy Mary", "World In Harmony", "Only You", "Tiger", and "Leaving Town Blues" were recorded. Hjort does mention Green recording for a solo album with Martin Birch at De Lane Lea in early May, but that these recordings were never finished and never released.

There certainly could have been more recording dates than Hjort lists...and possibly Dawson includes some dates that were postponed or cancelled? I don't know the sources for all the info, but presumably Dawson was using his notes or journals and Hjort was using studio logs...but there are bound to be inaccuracies in all of this.

[Moz]

Inserts/lyric sheets, memorabilia and merchandise -- all good stuff, but may get a bit extraneous again, especially for a timeline. One need look no further than eBay for more on this of course. However Bob's "Fleetwood Mac" T shirt is signature cool as can be (he does it such modest and indentured justice). :laugh:


Nah, I wasn't going to add that to the timeline, I was just curious about it!

[snoot]

Hjort has something to say about almost everything :laugh:

You know I'm getting to like that bible of yours as a go-to reference for the PGFM era. A lot of minutiae not always easy to find elsewhere. I always appreciate that kind of attention to details.

Hjort lists "Albatross" being recorded at CBS Studios on 6 October, and possibly further work being done on it there during the week of 14-18 October.

Ah now we have the precise date. That dating makes sense of course. Important too, as Albatross was the beginning of everything that the Mac would ever be. To me that track, coming when and how it did, created a focal point for everything the Mac was to become, right up until the present. This was the beginning of Green stepping out and away from the blues and embracing a far greater reach, and it was also the beginning of some of their strident blues fans questioning the "integrity" and "purity" of the Mac machine (well before TPO and KH). English Rose and Then Play On simply took this fusion that much further, and laid the groundwork for the rock and pop tendencies that followed (helped mightily by Kirwan's injections during their formative years). Albatross also gave them their first and only #1 chart hit (UK), until Dreams came along some seven years later (USA). [Moz take note]

Great to see the TPO session dates confirmed to boot, and so many from what make up the The Vaudeville Years. Top notch.

Hjort does mention Green recording for a solo album with Martin Birch at De Lane Lea in early May, but that these recordings were never finished and never released.

Peter and Danny were in the midst of putting together an instrumental project, that is often accredited to one or the other - and sometimes both. This was to have been the follow up to the Then Play On production, and had barely gotten off the ground. Whether lyrics were going to be added later to some of this material I do not know, but it was something of a compromise package partly embracing where Peter was wanting to go with more free form, and Danny's desire to keep things a bit more reined in. Those tapes may still exist somewhere, but have yet to see the light of day. They may have disintegrated by now for all we know also, or been misplaced to parts unknown.

There certainly could have been more recording dates than Hjort lists...and possibly Dawson includes some dates that were postponed or cancelled? I don't know the sources for all the info, but presumably Dawson was using his notes or journals and Hjort was using studio logs...but there are bound to be inaccuracies in all of this.

Showing wisdom beyond your years my friend. That always goes without saying in such reconstructions, even when the parties involved strive to be accurate. Always best to have multiple sources though, to help keep the other(s) honest and more in check. As for Dinky, he was right there alongside Vernon, Ross and Birch as a consultant for many of those early projects (English Rose, Then Play On and Kiln House to name three).

Great find by Norton btw. :thumbsup:

[snoot]

Nah, I wasn't going to add that to the timeline, I was just curious about it!

Well if you're referring to creating new threads, some of those ideas may have merit.

Btw here's another take for your CM enlistment collection Moz. :laugh:

MOJO Magazine
August 2004
As told to James McNair

It began as a marriage of convenience and ended with an earthquake. This month we say “Hi!” and “Bye!” with Christine McVie and Fleetwood Mac *

HELLO
August 1970

I’d married John McVie and just prior to that Peter [Green] had left the band. That devastated them, but Mick [Fleetwood], John, Danny Kirwan and Jeremy Spencer were trying to carry on as a four-piece. After Chicken Shack, I’d had a brief skirmish with a solo career, and then become a housewife. Fleetwood Mac were rehearsing for the album Kiln House and all us wives, kids and pets were living there, too. It was a rambling old oast house; you can see it in the pin sketch I drew for the album cover.

The band decided that they needed to augment their sound. And because I was living with them, I knew the songs. One night at dinner they said, “How about joining the band, Chris? We’re desperate!” There was no audition or anything; it was a case of them liking my voice and my keyboard-playing and knowing what they were getting.

Ten days later we were performing in New Orleans at a club, The Warehouse. I’d never been to the US before and I felt jet-lagged and under-rehearsed. It was nerve-wracking and frenetic, and I was in a band with my idols and I’d married one of them and our marriage was very happy at that stage.

[snoot]

Hello Jb

Here is what I remember from spring 1970 Fleetwood Mac with Danny as lead guitarist/songwriter rehearsed "Kiln House" at the house in Alton and then recorded the album at De Lane Lea with Martin Birch. I think they did do some recording at the house with the Stones mobile. I left Fleetwood Mac during this rehearsal to work with the Byrds and they hadn't started recording when I *took off* for Los Angeles.

Here is a link to some shows from My era with Fleetwood Mac. More shows to be posted at some point during the year.
http://concerts.wolfgangsvault.com/ct/dawson-sound-catalog/5.html

and here is some articles to check out
http://crawdaddy.wolfgangsvault.com/Category.aspx?KeyValue=My+Life+Is+the+Road

Have fun with the blog.

All the best,

(|:-{Dinky Dawson

[dino]

There's an interview where Peter states that the legendary Texan guitarist Johnny Winter recorded guitar parts for "Green Manalishi", but they weren't used. This was probably in the states, as they completed the song there? I find this interesting.

[doodyhead]

There's an interview where Peter states that the legendary Texan guitarist Johnny Winter recorded guitar parts for "Green Manalishi", but they weren't used. This was probably in the states, as they completed the song there? I find this interesting.

My memory was that Jeremy Spencer saying that Peter was howling the recorded ending in a parking garage in Los Angeles i think.

I remember somethng about Peter not being able to wrap himselfg around the innitial guitar solo and that is why Johnny Winter was asked. I guess they did not like that either. I would have loved to hear that.
If you listen to the progression of available recordings of GM you get the feeling peter had to really work at it before he went to the extra string bass and Wa WA
I once tried to put together a green Manalishi album. very tedious in the end

doodyhead

an aside:

Snoot: did you e mail oe speak to Dinky Dawson?

[snoot]

There's an interview where Peter states that the legendary Texan guitarist Johnny Winter recorded guitar parts for "Green Manalishi", but they weren't used. This was probably in the states, as they completed the song there? I find this interesting.

Never heard of the Winter connection before ~ interesting is right. I'm not sure Manalishi was recorded anywhere but at De Lane Lea Studios, unless this came in the form of mixing and overdubs later on (after perhaps being shuttled off via express courier). Johnny Winter may have also found his way into the Kingsway, London studio during one of his concert tours of England. I know there exists a 1970 recording of him and his band performing from the Royal Albert Hall, which came out a few years ago as part of a Sony reissue package, so who knows.

Also per the sharkman and his ace Hjort bible:

14-20 April / 28-30 April 1970: Snoot, you're correct about "The Green Manalishi" being recording at this time. Hjort writes that it was recorded on the 14th (28 takes!). "World In Harmony" was recorded on the 16th-17th (a take from the 16th was used for the master), and on the 17th Kirwan also recorded two new instrumentals. More work was done on these two instrumental tracks on the 20th - one of these was later released on The Vaudeville Years as "Farewell" (the predecessor to "Earl Grey" from Kiln House), while it seems the second one has never been released. Hjort does not mention any De Lane Lea recordings later in April.

Now if you were to look at various tour schedules for 1970, including Dinky's, none seem to reference Green or Mac as being anywhere near the states in April 1970. The song had already charted by June in the UK, which doesn't allow for much doodling around, so all this makes me wonder. But I will say, I HAVE seen references to The Green Manalishi being recorded in LA before too, like at Planetoftheamps!

My memory was that Jeremy Spencer saying that Peter was howling the recorded ending in a parking garage in Los Angeles i think.

Well I've seen it stated that to attain the massive wall of sound they were looking for, cabs were place in the underground car park beneath the studio at De Lane Lea. Close and distant miking was used on the speakers to get that very original guitar sound. So why does the ghost of LA keep arising? :confused:

I once tried to put together a green Manalishi album. very tedious in the end

Please tell us more ! The devil will be in the details I'm sure. :D

an aside:
Snoot: did you e mail oe speak to Dinky Dawson?

E mail. Dinky rests his hat in Boston these days, having long ago deserted the smog of LA. He's not all that far from you now V. If you need to get ahold of him, PM me - or drop me a line @ my addy.

[slipkid]

E mail. Dinky rests his hat in Boston these days, having long ago deserted the smog of LA. He's not all that far from you now V. If you need to get ahold of him, PM me - or drop me a line @ my addy.

Those excerpts from his book in Crawdaddy are a riot. A race between gear mobiles?? That's something Top Gear (BBC) would do today, a show I highly recommend. The scary plane ride to Antwerp seems to be the inspiration for a scene from "Almost Famous".

[snoot]

Those excerpts from his book in Crawdaddy are a riot. A race between gear mobiles?? That's something Top Gear (BBC) would do today, a show I highly recommend. The scary plane ride to Antwerp seems to be the inspiration for a scene from "Almost Famous".

The club scenes where so many top rank musicians converged there in London were out of this world back then, starting with the Marquee Club, and spreading out from there. You never knew just who you might run into, or what mayhem was in the works! :D

[slipkid]

The club scenes where so many top rank musicians converged there in London were out of this world back then, starting with the Marquee Club, and spreading out from there. You never knew just who you might run into, or what mayhem was in the works! :D

I had already read the Keith Moon "Magic Bus" story, but I was missing the other two parts. The London club scene in the late 60's was equivalent to the jazz clubs in Harlem during the be-bop era of the late 40's. I really think what took 50 years for jazz to come full circle, rock music did it in just over 20 years.

[dino]

Never heard of the Winter connection before ~ interesting is right. I'm not sure Manalishi was recorded anywhere but at De Lane Lea Studios, unless this came in the form of mixing and overdubs later on (after perhaps being shuttled off via express courier). Johnny Winter may have also found his way into the Kingsway, London studio during one of his concert tours of England. I know there exists a 1970 recording of him and his band performing from the Royal Albert Hall, which came out a few years ago as part of a Sony reissue package, so who knows.


I think we have it backwards regarding the recording date.
http://forum.metroamp.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=10844
The track was apparently started in LA in January 1970, on the American tour,
then completed in London. Of course Winter could have played in either place, as he was in London in April 1970.

[snoot]

I think we have it backwards regarding the recording date.
http://forum.metroamp.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=10844
The track was apparently started in LA in January 1970, on the American tour,
then completed in London. Of course Winter could have played in either place, as he was in London in April 1970.

Top notch find Dino. No wonder we all had our wires running in different directions on Manalishi. I have seen LA cited as the recording locale a number of times over the years, and always wondered the how and why behind it. This is one example of where the mixing and dubs may have rivalled the primaries, as it seems there was as much creative thought going into them as were the ones that nabbed the tracks to begin with. Made for a fine and fitting send off to Peter Green, if nothing else.