Rock and Roll Hall of Fame question?

[doodyhead]

It was great that there were so many Fleetwood Mac players there for the awards, but does anyone know why there were not more? In particular, Jeremy Spencer, Danny Kirwan and Bob Welch. I do not know what happened about Bob leaving, but he was there for five (5) albums (forgetting compilations and the like). jeremy Spencer was there for as many or more depending on how you count, and of course Danny Kirwan who fit right there in the transition between the blues era and the post partum pop phenomena.
And then there were all the other players post blues and post B/N

Inquiring mind wants to know

doodyhead

[sharksfan2000]

You might not remember that it was only the Green/Spencer/Kirwan and Buckingham/Nicks/Christine McVie lineups of the band that were inducted into the hall of fame, so that explains why Bob Welch and others were not there. I assume Danny Kirwan's health issues precluded him from attending, and as to Jeremy......maybe he'll enlighten us :) But he doesn't seem like the kind of person who's looking for the spotlight these days.

[mzero]

It was great that there were so many Fleetwood Mac players there for the awards, but does anyone know why there were not more? In particular, Jeremy Spencer, Danny Kirwan and Bob Welch. I do not know what happened about Bob leaving, but he was there for five (5) albums (forgetting compilations and the like). jeremy Spencer was there for as many or more depending on how you count, and of course Danny Kirwan who fit right there in the transition between the blues era and the post partum pop phenomena.
And then there were all the other players post blues and post B/N

Inquiring mind wants to know

doodyhead

v.c. aka m.e.h. - as i recall, jermey and danny were inducted. they declined to attend. i think that's right....?

bob wasn't inducted and at that point was also estranged from mick.under those circumstatnces i can imagine that he would boycott on principle. i also recall the decision as who was inducted or not rested partly with the band ( i think i read that in one of bob's q&a's here on the penguin site).

i think bob should be in, based on merit. another reason he should be in: i don't think the band would have survived to b/n without him.

as for the post b/n (e.g., billy) and minor pre b/n (e.g., the other bobs) people, they may not have been invited to attend.

it is an odd thing this hall of fame. lacks integrity among other things!

zero

[doodyhead]

Thanks for the info. I hope Jeremy does answer, too. He certainly was a driving force of the band as well as Danny. I don't usually follow the awards things and it went right by me back then. I would have loved to have seen the footoage of Carlos Santana and Peter Green. That would be something to post to youtube. All of these things are just popularity contests. The great ones are usually ahead of or behind the curve and for that its too bad. If the band did indeed choose who was there then it just compounds the mess
In the words of the Bard
"oh well"

vinnie c

[chiliD]

Just seems like SUCH an injustice:

Donna Jean Godchaux is in the R&RHoF as a member of the Grateful Dead, but Bob Welch is NOT as a member of Fleetwood Mac.

[SteveMacD]

Just seems like SUCH an injustice:

Donna Jean Godchaux is in the R&RHoF as a member of the Grateful Dead, but Bob Welch is NOT as a member of Fleetwood Mac.

Nor are Gram Parsons and Clarence White with the Byrds, and they along with Chris Hillman, were pretty much the founding fathers of country rock.

As for the Mac, I definitely think Bob Welch and Billy Burnette got screwed. Bob was on five albums, Billy was in for eight years.

[Gailh]

I think people should be included if they have had a significant influence on a band. So IMO Bob Welch should have been included.

I don't think Mick, John or Christine felt inclined to cause a fuss about this because he was suing them at the time.

Gail

[chiliD]

I think people should be included if they have had a significant influence on a band.

Exactly my point about Donna Jean Godchaux. ;) Not only was her time in the Grateful Dead INsignificant, it was just banal. Even Bob Brunning had more of an influence on Fleetwood Mac than Donna had on the Grateful Dead.

[skcin]

Who's decision is it which members of a band are inducted? Is it the R&RHOF or the band? Was it up to Mick?

[chiliD]

There's some "committee" of the R&RHoF that decides. When they nominated the Grateful Dead, they'd only chose 6 or 7 members to be inducted. Jerry Garcia told 'em either EVERYBODY gets in, or we decline to be inducted. Obviously, Mick didn't do that when Fleetwood Mac was nominated.

[skcin]

There's some "committee" of the R&RHoF that decides. When they nominated the Grateful Dead, they'd only chose 6 or 7 members to be inducted. Jerry Garcia told 'em either EVERYBODY gets in, or we decline to be inducted. Obviously, Mick didn't do that when Fleetwood Mac was nominated.

Well he should have. IMO.

[Gailh]

Well he should have. IMO.

Under normal cirumstances I would agree with you but ask yourself this question:

Would you stick your neck out for someone who was suing you?

Also I imagine the committee wanted the fab five plus Peter there and maybe they thought Mick, John and Chris might not show up if Bob did.

Gail

[skcin]

^ I'd like to say I would, but I don't know. Perhaps not. But it's a real shame that personal & business issues got in the way of some members getting their "reward" if you can call it that.

[chiliD]

Under normal cirumstances I would agree with you but ask yourself this question:

Would you stick your neck out for someone who was suing you?

Also I imagine the committee wanted the fab five plus Peter there and maybe they thought Mick, John and Chris might not show up if Bob did.

Gail

They inducted Danny Kirwan & Jeremy Spencer, too...and they weren't there, so they could've inducted Bob, but not invited him to the ceremonies, if that were the case. I seriously DOUBT FMac would've been that crass.

Well, look where it got them with Van Halen. The two guys who were NOT in the current incarnation were there and nobody with the last name Van Halen WAS.

[Gailh]

^ I'd like to say I would, but I don't know. Perhaps not. But it's a real shame that personal & business issues got in the way of some members getting their "reward" if you can call it that.


I doubt if I would.

Yes it is a shame that "business" issues got in the way

Gail

[Gailh]

They inducted Danny Kirwan & Jeremy Spencer, too...and they weren't there, so they could've inducted Bob, but not invited him to the ceremonies, if that were the case. I seriously DOUBT FMac would've been that crass.


Yes could have been a way round it.

I doubt that FM could have objected to that

Gail

[mzero]

They inducted Danny Kirwan & Jeremy Spencer, too...and they weren't there, so they could've inducted Bob, but not invited him to the ceremonies, if that were the case. I seriously DOUBT FMac would've been that crass.

Well, look where it got them with Van Halen. The two guys who were NOT in the current incarnation were there and nobody with the last name Van Halen WAS.

good one cd, van halen is more disfunctional than fleetwood mac! that is saying something.

going back to the earlier debate about not inducting bob because of pending litigation or personal discomfort at the ceremony....i understand why mick or whoever would want to exclude bob given the particular circumstances. but that shouldn't matter. certainly bob wrote more great mac songs than john, mick, and jeremy, combined, and maybe you could add danny to that collective.

and there are lots band members who have sued each other who are in the r&r hall of fame: mike love and brian wilson are a good example. mike love is a total jerk too, which bob welch is not. jeez if they excluded jerks it would be a small hall. would mick be in? ha, only joking...

anyway, who's right or wrong, or who dislikes who, and who cheated and stole, all that stuff shouldn't matter .getting in should be on merit... in a perfect world.

but of course as vinnie c. said 'its a popularity contest'. that also may have hurt bob with the rrh committee. if mick had said 'no peter green', the hall would have said 'wait a minute, he's a legend, it was his band, he wrote 'black magic woman' for christsakes'. carlos santana would have boycotted being inducted etc. but if mick says no to bob what are they going to do? at the time mac went in bob wasn't exactly riding a wave of nostalgia for 'hypnotized'. the committee probably said 'ok sure, whatever you want'

zero

[Neb-Maat-Re]

All good points about Bob, but on the other hand...

Perhaps acknowledging him may have gone some way to healing the rift.

Yes, the litigation was obstensibly over money, but perhaps sometimes what people are after is some recognition.

And was Bob entirely to blame? Surely he would only have resorted to legal action when other approaches failed?

[Ulpian]

According to the R&RHOF Committee rule, which I read about a while back (re. another band) you are only allowed to induct one - at maximum two - lineups of a band, normally the original and the 'classic'. So, when Blondie was inducted the original members turned up, as did Debbie Harry and her current band.

Apparently because Bob Welch was neither an original member nor a Rumours-era player, and since there were already 8 being inducted, the committee would not include him. Plus, as you say, the others would hardly have gone out of their way to argue the case to have him included.

[chiliD]

According to the R&RHOF Committee rule, which I read about a while back (re. another band) you are only allowed to induct one - at maximum two - lineups of a band, normally the original and the 'classic'. .

So, the Grateful Dead was obviously the exception. And, that assinine rule is probably what is keeping Yes from being inducted.

[doodyhead]

thank you all for filling me in on that piece of trivia.
music business is an oximoron.
is there in existence a recording either video or audio of the induction performance with Carlos Santana and Peter Green? I would love to see/hear it

vinnie c

[sharksfan2000]

So, the Grateful Dead was obviously the exception. And, that assinine rule is probably what is keeping Yes from being inducted.You mean their music wasn't reason enough for keeping Yes from being inducted :laugh: ;)

[SteveMacD]

According to the R&RHOF Committee rule, which I read about a while back (re. another band) you are only allowed to induct one - at maximum two - lineups of a band, normally the original and the 'classic'. So, when Blondie was inducted the original members turned up, as did Debbie Harry and her current band.

Tell that to the Yardbirds, Rolling Stones, and the Eagles...

[doodyhead]

Tell that to the Yardbirds, Rolling Stones, and the Eagles...

I remember Jeff Beck being surprised to be in with the group because he was kicked out rather bluntly

[aleuzzi]

You mean their music wasn't reason enough for keeping Yes from being inducted :laugh: ;)

Oh, snap! LOL!

I do love some of my Yes albums...but I don't dare brag about it.

[doodyhead]

Oh, snap! LOL!

I do love some of my Yes albums...but I don't dare brag about it.

taste is so subjective, but i do so agree

[chiliD]

Oh, snap! LOL!

I do love some of my Yes albums...but I don't dare brag about it.

There was a time when I was REALLY into that whole genre of rock...

...groups such as:

Yes
Genesis (pre-Trick Of The Tail)
Gentle Giant
ELP
King Crimson (the first 6 or 7 albums)
Curved Air
Renaissance
UK
Asia
The Nice
Gong
PFM
etc.

[aleuzzi]

and remember Saga and Merillion?

Rush
Budgie
and countless others...