Rosie's ching-chong comments

[Rickypt]

I don't believe this has been discussed yet.

For those not following, a few days ago, Rosie (on The View) was talking about all the hoopla over Danny DeVito's drunken appearance. She wondered aloud what it would sound like on Chinese news and proceeded to say something like "It would sound like ching chong, ching chong, Danny DeVito, ching chong, drunk, ching chong".

Many Asian-Americans have expressed anger over this and demanded an apology. After stalling a bit, Rosie has given a somewhat lukewarm apology. Many have said it is not enough, and have called on the television station to condemn the remarks.

I really don't know what I think about this one. My typical response is that if tons of people are offended by something, then there is a reason for that, even if I don't always "get it".

In this case, I'm trying to understand better why it is so offensive. I have a ton of French friends who are always making fun of what English sounds like to them (sounds like ruh, ruh, ruh, ruh, ruh). It is not like Rosie used a slur, or said anything nasty about Chinese people. She did a (somewhat dumb and lame) imitation of a language.

I live near Chinatown and hear Chinese every day. It sounds nothing like ching chong to me, so I think her imitation was stupid. But I don't find it racist or an ethnic slur (as has been claimed by some).

Finally, I am weary of people demanding apologies all the time. Apologies should be given when someone is truly sorry for their actions or words. They should mean something. Forcing an apology just means you "win" some kind of political fight, but really nothing is accomplished. My fellow gays are one of the worst groups at demanding apologies. Why not just put the energy into explaining why you are offended and doing some educating?

Any thoughts on this one?

[DavidMn]

She needs to shut her cakehole!:mad:

[Phoenix]

:mad: Stuff like this really pisses me off. Its like, some people are just looking for a reason to be offended. Rosie is a freekin comedean, and her intent was to be humerous, not to offend. Now, if it had malicious intent to it, that would be something else. but seriously, there are enough people in the world who GENUINLY ARE TRYING TO OFFEND!! People need to just reserve there anger and resentment for those people:rolleyes:

[DavidMn]

:mad: Stuff like this really pisses me off. Its like, some people are just looking for a reason to be offended. Rosie is a freekin comedean, and her intent was to be humerous, not to offend. Now, if it had malicious intent to it, that would be something else. but seriously, there are enough people in the world who GENUINLY ARE TRYING TO OFFEND!! People need to just reserve there anger and resentment for those people:rolleyes:Well, I look at it more from the point that I just find her EXTREMELY annoying more than offensive.

[bikerchic]

I love Rosie. The more annoying, the better.

[DrummerDeanna]

I want to know why THIS is being focused on when a few years ago Dave Chapelle did pretty much the exact same thing (although he was playing Rick James at the time :laugh: ) Is it because of his role in comedy? The fact that people almost EXPECT him to be offensive?

I think it was in poor taste, but I also don't see how it was racially offensive, then again I'm not Chinese.

I also think people are totally looking for things to get on Rosie about. I mean seriously - she keeps getting nit-picked for her comments no this show and it's getting old.

[Nixxxed]

Never mind the fact that Rosie has used the term "Irish twins" on the show many times - and she's only been on it since September.

[strandinthewind]

Politically correct bullshiiitte --- are we that dumbed down :rolleyes:

[ELIUD]

I'm so sick of people exercising their right to be offended by any slight off-color joke. Can't they just let things roll off their back for a f*cking change?

[skcin]

I want to know why THIS is being focused on when a few years ago Dave Chapelle did pretty much the exact same thing (although he was playing Rick James at the time :laugh: ) Is it because of his role in comedy? The fact that people almost EXPECT him to be offensive?



No, it was OK because he was actually poking fun at Rick James. :laugh:

I dunno how I feel. To be honest, when I first read what she had said - I gasped. :shocked: That was my first reaction. But a few moments later, I was more inclined to think it's not a big deal. Now I'm back to thinking that it kind of is.

It's really hard, if not impossible, lately to be PC, or appropriate, or whatever and not offend somebody. Shows like Chappelle and Family Guy explore this & point out stereotypes and make some of their characters rude or racist or just plain clueless. I think it's great that they put it out there, so we can explore our misconceptions & make us more aware of how we act & are perceived by others.

Whether or not she meant any offense, she should apologize, if only to appease the people that are pissed. Explain that you weren't trying to make fun of an entire race of people, say you're sorry to offend, and let it go.

The Irish twin remarks - is that really offensive to people? I thought it was so old & dated that most people didn't really know, or care, what it meant. Rosie's Irish, right? I guess she figures it's OK to say that - kind of like I tell Poish jokes & I'm part Polish. Of course, I don't get upset when anyone tells Polish jokes, even if they're not Polish. But then again, I'm not going to go around telling black jokes either.

ACK! I'm so confused. :(

[PsychCat]

I'm so sick of people exercising their right to be offended by any slight off-color joke. Can't they just let things roll off their back for a f*cking change?

And wouldn't it be sweet to see Ms. Rosie lead THAT pack?? She brings this crap on herself and I hope she catches all kinds of hell for it. She's Ms. Uber-sensitive when it comes to all-things-gay so let her squirm awhile. Actually, the sad thing is is I don't think she "gets it", that what she did was offensive in the least. Meanwhile, you could have sworn Kelly Rippa was hangin' with the "god hates f**s" people.

Hey Rosie.... Hypocrite much?? :shrug:

Bless her heart... she's got issues on top of issues. I suppose that's my psych stuff coming into play. She's a very, very bitter person who is also a very, very angry person. Here's hoping she gets help somewhere. :nod:

[strandinthewind]

It is one thing to assert that Gay Aiken's hand was dirty from dirty gay sex, which clearly is what she meant when she puntuated her sentence with "hoooney." It is quite another to say ching chang chong is a vague reference to the Chinese media.

Personaly, I find neither offensive, though Ripka clearly was pissed and attacking Gay personally and Rosie was joking 100%.

[SuzeQuze]

My Mom saw Rosie in Vegas walking by. She said hi to her and Rosie responded, "Hi, how ya doin'?" :)

I can see why what she said was offensive but clearly she didn't mean any harm by it.

[PsychCat]

I can see why what she said was offensive but clearly she didn't mean any harm by it.

I believe that, too. It's just that she needs to learn that others do the same thing, ie "shut the pie-hole" and relax.
Bottom line... Rosie is one of those people that go through life looking for reasons to be offended and are very seldom disappointed. :nod:

[mikeschmike]

This world would be a better place if everybody wasn't so f*cking sensitive. Rosie and China included.

[strandinthewind]

This world would be a better place if everybody wasn't so f*cking sensitive. Rosie and China included.

Exactly!

I mean where do we draw the line? Who does not want to laugh at anything ever again though satire, etc. :shrug:

[skcin]

It is one thing to assert that Gay Aiken's hand was dirty from dirty gay sex, which clearly is what she meant when she puntuated her sentence with "hoooney." It is quite another to say ching chang chong is a vague reference to the Chinese media.

Personaly, I find neither offensive, though Ripka clearly was pissed and attacking Gay personally and Rosie was joking 100%.


What the f*ck does "hooney" mean, and why does that make her comment anti-gay? I say "I don't know where your hand has been" to people often, gay and straight. :shrug:

[Rickypt]

This world would be a better place if everybody wasn't so f*cking sensitive. Rosie and China included.

This is true. I watched this hilarious comedy show the other night with Lewis Black and a couple other guys. They did some gay marriage jokes that probably some will find offensive, but I thought were just funny and not meant in a mean-spirited way.

It makes it hard to fight against truly offensive stuff when people get outraged over every little thing. I'm still trying to understand why an imitation of a language is that offensive.

[strandinthewind]

^^^^

She looked pissed when he put his hand up to her face (which was way rude) and then clearly attacked him by asserting his gayness was dirty - even if in jest.

She said what she said with that whole big queen hand and head gesture and then punctuated it with a very gay term like honey. I mean does anyone really think after seeing that that she was not attacking him in retaliation for the hand thing and she did it by asserting his hand was dirty from gay sex. Here is the video - you judge for yourself.

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In the end, I think she was taken aback and was pissed at him and then tried to cover it with humor.

Put it this way, like Rosie, I know of no gay person who cannot tell that KR was camping it up and EXACTLY what she meant.

[skcin]

^ And like you said, why do we not deem it offensive if we imitate an Italian accent, or an Irish one, but it is offensive if it's Chinese? If she had actually used English words with a Chinese accent, would that have been OK?

[mikeschmike]

This is true. I watched this hilarious comedy show the other night with Lewis Black and a couple other guys. They did some gay marriage jokes that probably some will find offensive, but I thought were just funny and not meant in a mean-spirited way.

It makes it hard to fight against truly offensive stuff when people get outraged over every little thing. I'm still trying to understand why an imitation of a language is that offensive.

Because people would rather judge everyone else's actions rather then their own. I am almost positive that everyone at one point or another has found humor and/or amusement in something that could potentially offend a specific group of people. Hell, I make fun of old people and their driving skills. Should I send an apology letter to AARP? Hell. No.

[skcin]

Strand - I've seen the video. I do think she was teasing him about being gay, and letting him know that everyone knows he's gay even though he's not out. But I honestly don't think she was implying that he's dirty because he has gay sex. I could be wrong, but I'm taking her word for it.

Personally, I would be appalled if anyone put their hand on my mouth/face, even if I knew them well, gay or straight. BECAUSE PEOPLE'S HANDS ARE FILTHY DIRTY DISGUSTING GERMY & GROSS! :wavey: Although I would have said "get your filthy ass hand the f*ck off my face, assh*le." Or something to that effect. :cool:

[strandinthewind]

^^

LOL - I would have said that too :nod:

But and to the point, even in jest, she was implying his hand was dirty not from the common everyday touching of people we all do. She implied it was because he was gay. Is that offensive and not funny? I do not really think so.

[amber]

It makes it hard to fight against truly offensive stuff when people get outraged over every little thing. I'm still trying to understand why an imitation of a language is that offensive.

That is how I am thinking about it. If she had used a different language, would people have been offended? Like say, French? People parody french language all the time. Or any other language? Which language would be okay, and which not? And why? Is it okay only if huge groups of people with that heritage or who speak that language don't get all pissed off? And it's not okay when the language group does get pissed off? Can you make fun of people who weren't oppressed much in that past, but not people who were? No groups/ethnicities really escape some kind of prejudice, at some time. I mean, are we to stop making fun of British people's teeth? That would be terrible, because making fun of British teeth is funny.
Can we imitate how Russian news would sound as a joke, but not Chinese? What are the rules, and why are they somewhat arbitrary?
And on and on.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

i think michelle says it best..

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[gldstwmn]

Somewhere on the news it said that ching chong was some kind of bad Chinese slang, of which I'm sure Rosie had no idea. If ching chong is something vulgar or nasty in Chinese, then yeah, people are going to be offended.
If anyone even tried to put their hand near my face, I would probably bite them. :laugh: Seriously though, I have a thing about germs. I don't like doorknobs. And putting your hand over the mouth of someone who is not your child or spouse is rude.

[DrummerDeanna]

^^

I always thought "ching chong" was just the default "mock or imitate" chinese phrase...I mean I remember being little and when we'd "speak Chinese" that's what we'd all say...

Of course I wouldn't do that now, as I can see where it's insensetive.....

[estranged4life]

Politically correct bullshiiitte --- are we that dumbed down :rolleyes:

I think people need to see the movie "Clerks 2" with the hilarious use of the word "porch monkey" (Wanda Sykes facial expression when Randal says "Porch Monkeys" is classic!)

Brian "The Half-breed potato peddler & blanket-head...ya know half Irish & half Indian" j.

Btw, for the record, I dont drink like the stereotypical Irish and I dont live in a tee-pee & say "How" like the stereotypical Indian.

[Red]

i think michelle says it best..

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Yep, that about sums it up.

I remember watching a documentary on racism in Canada a few years back, with discussions related to if/how it differs to racism in the U.S. There was a Korean guy on there who talked about how all the way up until high school, various classmates would tease him by pulling the eyelids (so they would slant) and make these "ching- chong ching-chong" references to him. This guy's exact words were "where does this whole 'ching chong' thing come from anyway?"

So yeah, when Rosie said that, I thought of the racism documentary guy and that it really doesn't matter if I find it offensive, it matters if Asian groups find it offensive.

[estranged4life]

There was a Korean guy on there who talked about how all the way up until high school, various classmates would tease him by pulling the eyelids (so they would slant) and make these "ching- chong ching-chong" references to him. This guy's exact words were "where does this whole 'ching chong' thing come from anyway?"


years ago, one of my friends named Darrell was of Japanese decent. People would tease him the same way, and Darrell, being the California transplanted 'surfer/metalhead dude' would say "What the f**k are you saying dude, I only know English. My parents only know English, my Grandparents quit speaking Japanese when they immigrated to the US and wanted their children to assimilate with other US citizens who speak English"

We would roll on the ground as he ripped into those dumbass jocks. **** he would say to 'em was in his classic 'valley talk' accent only from a true Californian.

[gldstwmn]

i think michelle says it best..

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You are aware that she thought the Japanese should have been in internment camps in the United States during WWII?

[Brwn_eyes0511]

You are aware that she thought the Japanese should have been in internment camps in the United States during WWII?

I have "In Defense of Internment".. i rather like it.

[CelticGypsy]

I love Rosie. She did it as a joke and nothing more than that. It's not like she went all out like that guy from Steinfeld and meant to treat people in a mean way. Rosie is funny and I love her on "The View."

People really need to stop being so sensitive about everything. It's called comedy.

[irishgrl]

I don't believe this has been discussed yet.

For those not following, a few days ago, Rosie (on The View) was talking about all the hoopla over Danny DeVito's drunken appearance. She wondered aloud what it would sound like on Chinese news and proceeded to say something like "It would sound like ching chong, ching chong, Danny DeVito, ching chong, drunk, ching chong".

Many Asian-Americans have expressed anger over this and demanded an apology. After stalling a bit, Rosie has given a somewhat lukewarm apology. Many have said it is not enough, and have called on the television station to condemn the remarks.

I really don't know what I think about this one. My typical response is that if tons of people are offended by something, then there is a reason for that, even if I don't always "get it".

In this case, I'm trying to understand better why it is so offensive. I have a ton of French friends who are always making fun of what English sounds like to them (sounds like ruh, ruh, ruh, ruh, ruh). It is not like Rosie used a slur, or said anything nasty about Chinese people. She did a (somewhat dumb and lame) imitation of a language.

I live near Chinatown and hear Chinese every day. It sounds nothing like ching chong to me, so I think her imitation was stupid. But I don't find it racist or an ethnic slur (as has been claimed by some).

Finally, I am weary of people demanding apologies all the time. Apologies should be given when someone is truly sorry for their actions or words. They should mean something. Forcing an apology just means you "win" some kind of political fight, but really nothing is accomplished. My fellow gays are one of the worst groups at demanding apologies. Why not just put the energy into explaining why you are offended and doing some educating?

Any thoughts on this one?
I am not Asian/Asian American so I cant relate to their position....I truly dont see what the fuss was about?

[irishgrl]

Never mind the fact that Rosie has used the term "Irish twins" on the show many times - and she's only been on it since September.
What's an "Irish Twin?"

[DrummerDeanna]

Thanks, you just reminded me that I had the same question earlier, but didn't want to google it at work for fear breasts would pop up or something...

HEre's what I found:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_twins

rish twins is a slang term that refers to siblings born 9 to 12 months apart - usually in the same calendar year, or who are in the same class in school. It references a perception about families of Irish Catholics who may not use birth control (and thus may have children in quicker succession), but it is often used endearingly by the families of the "twins" themselves.

[Rickypt]

You are aware that she thought the Japanese should have been in internment camps in the United States during WWII?

She's a f*king idiot trying to sell books.

[irishgrl]

years ago, one of my friends named Darrell was of Japanese decent. People would tease him the same way, and Darrell, being the California transplanted 'surfer/metalhead dude' would say "What the f**k are you saying dude, I only know English. My parents only know English, my Grandparents quit speaking Japanese when they immigrated to the US and wanted their children to assimilate with other US citizens who speak English"

We would roll on the ground as he ripped into those dumbass jocks. **** he would say to 'em was in his classic 'valley talk' accent only from a true Californian.
totally dude! Like Omigawd!

[irishgrl]

You are aware that she thought the Japanese should have been in internment camps in the United States during WWII?
Um, a large portion of the NATION did. Granted, hindsight is 20/20, but at that time, with anti-Japanese hysteria sweeping the nation, civil rights were out the door. Kinda like now.

[Rickypt]

Um, a large portion of the NATION did. Granted, hindsight is 20/20, but at that time, with anti-Japanese hysteria sweeping the nation, civil rights were out the door. Kinda like now.

Yeah, but Malkin knows better.

[irishgrl]

Yeah, but Malkin knows better.
what do you mean?

[gldstwmn]

Um, a large portion of the NATION did. Granted, hindsight is 20/20, but at that time, with anti-Japanese hysteria sweeping the nation, civil rights were out the door. Kinda like now.

So we should lock up all the Muslims? :confused:

[gldstwmn]

She's a f*king idiot trying to sell books.

I know exactly what she is and I can't say it on this board. :)

[Rickypt]

what do you mean?

I forgot to add the rollying eyes.

[irishgrl]

So we should lock up all the Muslims? :confused:
Um I've made it clear that Im not politically correct in this area. In fact, its the ONE area I cant explain why I feel the way I do. So, I guess in sum, Im not the person to ask. Because you wouldnt like my answer.

[gldstwmn]

Jeezus. (slaps forehead)

[irishgrl]

I forgot to add the rollying eyes.
Gotcha. (insert extra characters to meet minimum requirement here)

[irishgrl]

Jeezus. (slaps forehead)
I pray there doesnt come a point where I have to say "I told you so".......

[DrummerDeanna]

:eek: ho'sh*t! So I was totally wrong in the holocaust thread...you didn't mean just the group at the conference??


I stand corrected.

[irishgrl]

:eek: ho'sh*t! So I was totally wrong in the holocaust thread...you didn't mean just the group at the conference??


I stand corrected.
What? are you asking ME something? I dont remember the exact comments made in the Holocaust thread, so if you could clarify I'd appreciate it...

[gldstwmn]

I pray there doesnt come a point where I have to say "I told you so".......

You haven't told me anything yet. :confused:

[irishgrl]

You haven't told me anything yet. :confused:
ah.....back to previous discussions regarding radical Muslims and what I believe to be the path we are collectively heading down. It doesnt look pretty IMO...

[DrummerDeanna]

What? are you asking ME something? I dont remember the exact comments made in the Holocaust thread, so if you could clarify I'd appreciate it...

I PM'd ya :nod:

[irishgrl]

I PM'd ya :nod:
yes. I clarified in the Holocaust thread. If people would read what the Arabs have said continually regarding Israel, what I am saying is no surprise. I am just articulating their position, as well as what I see being the eventual outcome of the Muslim agitation. I firmly believe that there WILL come a time when there will be a major confrontation between Christian/Jew and Muslim. It appears inevitable from everthing Ive seen and from the growing historical record. It is unfortunate, but I dont see any way around it. Unless there is a miracle and the Arab/Muslim culture can accept the fact of Israel and Jewish rights to their ancestral homeland.

[HejiraNYC]

I am not Asian/Asian American so I cant relate to their position....I truly dont see what the fuss was about?

First off, Michelle Malkin is a f&**ing right wing Auntie Tomasina c*nt! She is an utter disgrace to the human race. I wouldn't p*ss on her if she was on fire.

Okay... being of Asian extraction, I think I can add some insight to this... For one thing, I don't think Rosie was intentionally trying to be offensive. The fact is that for some reason it has always been "okay" to mock Asian people, especially Chinese people, in the most patently offensive ways- pushing the corners of the eyes up, sticking out the front teeth and making fun of the language with all of the "ching chong, ching chong" crap. It's classic playground behavior. And apparently Rosie has plenty of that kind of immaturity to get over.

And for those who don't really understand it, I guess this is another one of those "it's an Asian thing; you wouldn't understand" topics. I don't think most people here know what it's like to have been taunted by gangs of thugs as a kid while they hurled rocks at us doing the whole "slanty eye" "ching chong" thing. They threw rocks at my grandmother! I don't think most people here know what it's like to attend a hick mostly white private school and being the only minority and being taunted constantly with the "slanty eye" "ching chong" thing. And most of you don't know what it's like to have your white trash ignorant history teacher patronizing you by calling you his "little Asian connection," which totally exacerbated the whole "ching chong" thing even more. And it isn't like I was some walking encyclopedia of Asian stereotypes: I don't have really slanty eyes and I have always spoken perfect unaccented English (I would dare say, better than most native born Americans). As a result I went through a very long time of being ashamed of my ethnicity; almost as if everybody managed to convince me that, indeed, there was something wrong with being Asian and that Asians were inferior to whites. I guess you can say I wrestled with my cultural identity issues for a very, very long time. My parents made a point of trying to assimilate us into the mainstream rather than settling down in some Asian ghetto, and I'm very, very glad they did this. But, unfortunately, this is the price we paid. Do you think enduring all of this as a child was deeply hurtful and offensive? You'd better believe it.

I am glad that Asians as a community finally "grew a pair" and started denouncing this sort of thing in the media. If people think this is being excessively politically correct, then I'm all for being excessively politically correct. And for someone like Rosie doing the whole "ching chong" thing on national television brings back some very bad memories. Shame on her! Especially for someone who is supposed to be THE role model for gay parenting. I hope she is not teaching her children that intimidating minorities with this type of offensive conduct is okay, especially since she is part of a persecuted minority as well.

[DrummerDeanna]

^^

Thanks for posting that, Hejira - it really does shed light on the issue, at least for me. And I even said in an earlier post...the "ching chong" thing is totally the default mock of Asians...I remember it well from the playground :distress:

The difference? Kids are little sh*ts and always have been, O'Donnell should have know better....

Anyway - thanks again, really great post.

[Rickypt]

And for those who don't really understand it, I guess this is another one of those "it's an Asian thing; you wouldn't understand" topics.

That is right, I didn't understand. Thanks for shedding some light on this.

[irishgrl]

First off, Michelle Malkin is a f&**ing right wing Auntie Tomasina c*nt! She is an utter disgrace to the human race. I wouldn't p*ss on her if she was on fire.

Okay... being of Asian extraction, I think I can add some insight to this... For one thing, I don't think Rosie was intentionally trying to be offensive. The fact is that for some reason it has always been "okay" to mock Asian people, especially Chinese people, in the most patently offensive ways- pushing the corners of the eyes up, sticking out the front teeth and making fun of the language with all of the "ching chong, ching chong" crap. It's classic playground behavior. And apparently Rosie has plenty of that kind of immaturity to get over.

And for those who don't really understand it, I guess this is another one of those "it's an Asian thing; you wouldn't understand" topics. I don't think most people here know what it's like to have been taunted by gangs of thugs as a kid while they hurled rocks at us doing the whole "slanty eye" "ching chong" thing. They threw rocks at my grandmother! I don't think most people here know what it's like to attend a hick mostly white private school and being the only minority and being taunted constantly with the "slanty eye" "ching chong" thing. And most of you don't know what it's like to have your white trash ignorant history teacher patronizing you by calling you his "little Asian connection," which totally exacerbated the whole "ching chong" thing even more. And it isn't like I was some walking encyclopedia of Asian stereotypes: I don't have really slanty eyes and I have always spoken perfect unaccented English (I would dare say, better than most native born Americans). As a result I went through a very long time of being ashamed of my ethnicity; almost as if everybody managed to convince me that, indeed, there was something wrong with being Asian and that Asians were inferior to whites. I guess you can say I wrestled with my cultural identity issues for a very, very long time. My parents made a point of trying to assimilate us into the mainstream rather than settling down in some Asian ghetto, and I'm very, very glad they did this. But, unfortunately, this is the price we paid. Do you think enduring all of this as a child was deeply hurtful and offensive? You'd better believe it.

I am glad that Asians as a community finally "grew a pair" and started denouncing this sort of thing in the media. If people think this is being excessively politically correct, then I'm all for being excessively politically correct. And for someone like Rosie doing the whole "ching chong" thing on national television brings back some very bad memories. Shame on her! Especially for someone who is supposed to be THE role model for gay parenting. I hope she is not teaching her children that intimidating minorities with this type of offensive conduct is okay, especially since she is part of a persecuted minority as well.
I for one would rather share a playground (or anything else for that matter) with an Asian than with some WHITE folks I know!

I find much to admire about the Asians as a whole, and I say that from many levels, both personal and professional.

Its too bad Rosie reverted to a "playground" mentality when she made her jokes, but I really dont think they were malicious....

I think all races come in for their fair share of mocking, and I say this as a Californian, born and raised in the melting pot that is the Bay Area. Ive been on the receiving end of racism as a minority myself, believe it or not!

That said, Im not a KID any more and I dont need to constantly be on the lookout for perceived injuries either...........

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Michelle Malkin is a f&**ing right wing Auntie Tomasina c*nt!

Let's see.. why exactly do you use that term "Auntie Tomasina"..

[michelle2677]

I'm sorry i dont have time to read through this entire thread. As for the original post-you really have to pick your battles. People say all the time that kentuckians are stupid rednecks and because of our accents sound unintelligent and have....less than average oral hygiene skills :lol: its a joke. I get it. Move on. Now if someone attacks me personally ? Its on :laugh:

[michelle2677]

Oh and mike>yes. I think you should send the letter to AARP. you should be ashamed of yourself! ;)

[gldstwmn]

First off, Michelle Malkin is a f&**ing right wing Auntie Tomasina c*nt! She is an utter disgrace to the human race. I wouldn't p*ss on her if she was on fire.

Okay... being of Asian extraction, I think I can add some insight to this... For one thing, I don't think Rosie was intentionally trying to be offensive. The fact is that for some reason it has always been "okay" to mock Asian people, especially Chinese people, in the most patently offensive ways- pushing the corners of the eyes up, sticking out the front teeth and making fun of the language with all of the "ching chong, ching chong" crap. It's classic playground behavior. And apparently Rosie has plenty of that kind of immaturity to get over.

And for those who don't really understand it, I guess this is another one of those "it's an Asian thing; you wouldn't understand" topics. I don't think most people here know what it's like to have been taunted by gangs of thugs as a kid while they hurled rocks at us doing the whole "slanty eye" "ching chong" thing. They threw rocks at my grandmother! I don't think most people here know what it's like to attend a hick mostly white private school and being the only minority and being taunted constantly with the "slanty eye" "ching chong" thing. And most of you don't know what it's like to have your white trash ignorant history teacher patronizing you by calling you his "little Asian connection," which totally exacerbated the whole "ching chong" thing even more. And it isn't like I was some walking encyclopedia of Asian stereotypes: I don't have really slanty eyes and I have always spoken perfect unaccented English (I would dare say, better than most native born Americans). As a result I went through a very long time of being ashamed of my ethnicity; almost as if everybody managed to convince me that, indeed, there was something wrong with being Asian and that Asians were inferior to whites. I guess you can say I wrestled with my cultural identity issues for a very, very long time. My parents made a point of trying to assimilate us into the mainstream rather than settling down in some Asian ghetto, and I'm very, very glad they did this. But, unfortunately, this is the price we paid. Do you think enduring all of this as a child was deeply hurtful and offensive? You'd better believe it.

I am glad that Asians as a community finally "grew a pair" and started denouncing this sort of thing in the media. If people think this is being excessively politically correct, then I'm all for being excessively politically correct. And for someone like Rosie doing the whole "ching chong" thing on national television brings back some very bad memories. Shame on her! Especially for someone who is supposed to be THE role model for gay parenting. I hope she is not teaching her children that intimidating minorities with this type of offensive conduct is okay, especially since she is part of a persecuted minority as well.

Thank you for this most articulate explanation.

[strandinthewind]

You haven't told me anything yet. :confused:

Moreover, Timothy McVie was an American, white, Christian - yet, we ain't locking those up are we.

In the end, I get that few people other than Middle Easterners have ever bombed planes. However, that fact does not in any way support locking up American citizens and taking their Constitutional rights away because of the acts of like maybe 1,000 non-American Muslims total out of the tens of millions of them around the world and here who live in a peaceful manner. I mean the whole reason the ones that hate us hate us is because of that very reason :shrug:

[strandinthewind]

First off, Michelle Malkin is a f&**ing right wing Auntie Tomasina c*nt! She is an utter disgrace to the human race. I wouldn't p*ss on her if she was on fire.

Okay... being of Asian extraction, I think I can add some insight to this... For one thing, I don't think Rosie was intentionally trying to be offensive. The fact is that for some reason it has always been "okay" to mock Asian people, especially Chinese people, in the most patently offensive ways- pushing the corners of the eyes up, sticking out the front teeth and making fun of the language with all of the "ching chong, ching chong" crap. It's classic playground behavior. And apparently Rosie has plenty of that kind of immaturity to get over.

And for those who don't really understand it, I guess this is another one of those "it's an Asian thing; you wouldn't understand" topics. I don't think most people here know what it's like to have been taunted by gangs of thugs as a kid while they hurled rocks at us doing the whole "slanty eye" "ching chong" thing. They threw rocks at my grandmother! I don't think most people here know what it's like to attend a hick mostly white private school and being the only minority and being taunted constantly with the "slanty eye" "ching chong" thing. And most of you don't know what it's like to have your white trash ignorant history teacher patronizing you by calling you his "little Asian connection," which totally exacerbated the whole "ching chong" thing even more. And it isn't like I was some walking encyclopedia of Asian stereotypes: I don't have really slanty eyes and I have always spoken perfect unaccented English (I would dare say, better than most native born Americans). As a result I went through a very long time of being ashamed of my ethnicity; almost as if everybody managed to convince me that, indeed, there was something wrong with being Asian and that Asians were inferior to whites. I guess you can say I wrestled with my cultural identity issues for a very, very long time. My parents made a point of trying to assimilate us into the mainstream rather than settling down in some Asian ghetto, and I'm very, very glad they did this. But, unfortunately, this is the price we paid. Do you think enduring all of this as a child was deeply hurtful and offensive? You'd better believe it.

I am glad that Asians as a community finally "grew a pair" and started denouncing this sort of thing in the media. If people think this is being excessively politically correct, then I'm all for being excessively politically correct. And for someone like Rosie doing the whole "ching chong" thing on national television brings back some very bad memories. Shame on her! Especially for someone who is supposed to be THE role model for gay parenting. I hope she is not teaching her children that intimidating minorities with this type of offensive conduct is okay, especially since she is part of a persecuted minority as well.

I totally get what you are saying and think it is valid. Yet, you call another class of people hick in another stereotype - how is that different? I get that some, but not all, hicks are the ones doing the mean things, but I think until we get away from that, it will never end. Just an academic point I guess.

[strandinthewind]

Let's see.. why exactly do you use that term "Auntie Tomasina"..

Because he is articulate and was using humor to illustrate a point based on Uncle Tom.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Because he is articulate and was using humor to illustrate a point based on Uncle Tom.

I know what the term means, silly man ;)

I just find it to be a very insulting and racial/prejudice slang.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

for all the "uncle toms", "aunt tomasinas", "house n*****" and "aunt marys" out there .. thought this was quite funny indeed.. :)

http://www.cafepress.com/utoi

[irishgrl]

Moreover, Timothy McVie was an American, white, Christian - yet, we ain't locking those up are we.

In the end, I get that few people other than Middle Easterners have ever bombed planes. However, that fact does not in any way support locking up American citizens and taking their Constitutional rights away because of the acts of like maybe 1,000 non-American Muslims total out of the tens of millions of them around the world and here who live in a peaceful manner. I mean the whole reason the ones that hate us hate us is because of that very reason :shrug:
Just so you know, Im not condoning concentration camps. I never said that in any post. When Chris asked me if I supported locking up Muslims in camps, I responded by saying that the issue of my feelings for the Muslims (specifically the terrorists by the way) is the one area where I deviate from my normal Liberal leanings. I categorically hate them.

That said, however, I do NOT condone any sort of forced lockup, and Im not happy about the treatment of prisoners at Gitmo or Abu Ghraib (sp?).

oh and Jason? Tim McVeigh was KILLED for his crimes. Much different than a concentration camp............you're comparing apples and oranges again.

[irishgrl]

for all the "uncle toms", "aunt tomasinas", "house n*****" and "aunt marys" out there .. thought this was quite funny indeed.. :)

http://www.cafepress.com/utoi
are you specifically naming ME, Brandon?

[Brwn_eyes0511]

are you specifically naming ME, Brandon?

:p no, of course not!

Aunt Mary is a common slang for a gay republican.

I'm the Aunt Mary dear.. not you! haha

[irishgrl]

:p no, of course not!

Aunt Mary is a common slang for a gay republican.

I'm the Aunt Mary dear.. not you! haha
D'oh! thanks for clarifying....I dont know a lot about the Gay slang culture unfortunately....

[HejiraNYC]

Ive been on the receiving end of racism as a minority myself, believe it or not!



Oh geez... I think I'm going to start a race war on the Ledge :lol: even though it is not my intention. All I can say is that:

In this day and age, there is no such thing as racism against white people.

And this is hardly an original concept. I believe it was Spike Lee who got into some hot water by stating his opinion about this in the media many years ago... and it was largely dismissed by the (mostly white) media.

But I happen to believe it is true. And it's hard to make this point without sounding like some kind of white-hating radical activist, which I am not (hullo, music does not get any "whiter" than Fleetwood Mac :lol: ). It's just that in the western world, caucasians are in a position of dominance- culturally, economically, politically, etc. This means that they are not exactly in a position of being persecuted, marginalized, criminalized or otherwise at a disadvantage in life because of the color of their skin or the language that they speak. So yes, I do realize that there are instances in largely ethnic neighborhoods where whites are technically in the minority. And I do realize that there are white stereotypes perpetrated in the media, e.g., that straight white boys can't dance, all white girls talk like Valley Girls, etc. But this is not the same as calling black people the "n" word or calling Asians "slanty eyes" or, again doing the "ching chong" thing. Historically, those derogatory terms came from a much darker place- they were a means of putting people of color down in their place- basically to remind them that they were different and were not equal to the (superior) whites. During the last World War, the Asian stereotypes were put out in the war propaganda to fuel the American zeitgeist against the Japanese (and, of course, to the vast majority of Americans, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, etc. are all the same :rolleyes: ) Conversely, there are no such derogatory terms in our language today that imply that [my race] is superior to caucasians, and caucasians are nothing but lowly _______. It's just not possible; caucasians control every aspect of western society. I'm not saying that it is right or wrong... it's just the way it is. Therefore, in my own estimation, it seems that any sort of derogatory terms about white people are either a) done in jest b) made up by one group of white people to feel superior to another group of white people, e.g., redneck, or c) crafted as an angry response to being oppressed, e.g., Jesse Jackson calling NYC "Himeytown."

Yes, it does sound like a double standard. But this is why it has been socially acceptable for black people to use the "n" word but totally forbidden for white people to use it. Accordingly, to a large degree, I have carte blanche to poke fun at Asian stereotypes, and trust me, I do (along with Margaret Cho, Amy Tan, etc.)! But for whites to do that... not such a good thing. In general, any time you are in a position of dominance, it really is your noblesse oblige to take the highroad when it comes to dealing with people who are at a disadvantage in society. That is why there is a double standard for white people- it is acceptable to knock white people down a peg or two, but it would be racial harassment if the tables were turned.

Let the flames begin! :lol:

[HejiraNYC]

you call another class of people hick in another stereotype - how is that different? I get that some, but not all, hicks are the ones doing the mean things, but I think until we get away from that, it will never end. Just an academic point I guess.

Well, I don't think "hick" necessarily falls along racial lines. For me "hick" is not about the color of one's skin, eyes or hair. For me "hicks" are people from the south who are ignorant about the world at large and retain a bullheaded unwillingness to embrace anything/anyone different from them, whether it's food, music, religion, "family values," etc., thereby becoming blinded by their own myopia. Their counterparts in the north are called "philistines." :p Their counterparts in Europe are called "the French." :lol: What can I say... I grew up in the south...

[HejiraNYC]

Aunt Mary is a common slang for a gay republican.

I'm the Aunt Mary dear.. not you! haha

Well then... I guess Aunt Mary needs no introduction to Auntie Tomasina. :rolleyes:

[markolas]

Let the flames begin! :lol:

There won't be any flames from me; I agree with everything you've said. And I'm white, FWIW. :)

I've stayed out of this thread because I couldn't articulate what I wanted to say, but you seem to have done it for me.

[Rickypt]

Thanks, Hejira, I get why ching-chong struck such a nerve and is different than my french buds making fun of English. I didn't know it was considered such a slur.

[irishgrl]

Oh geez... I think I'm going to start a race war on the Ledge :lol: even though it is not my intention. All I can say is that:

In this day and age, there is no such thing as racism against white people.

And this is hardly an original concept. I believe it was Spike Lee who got into some hot water by stating his opinion about this in the media many years ago... and it was largely dismissed by the (mostly white) media.

But I happen to believe it is true. And it's hard to make this point without sounding like some kind of white-hating radical activist, which I am not (hullo, music does not get any "whiter" than Fleetwood Mac :lol: ). It's just that in the western world, caucasians are in a position of dominance- culturally, economically, politically, etc. This means that they are not exactly in a position of being persecuted, marginalized, criminalized or otherwise at a disadvantage in life because of the color of their skin or the language that they speak. So yes, I do realize that there are instances in largely ethnic neighborhoods where whites are technically in the minority. And I do realize that there are white stereotypes perpetrated in the media, e.g., that straight white boys can't dance, all white girls talk like Valley Girls, etc. But this is not the same as calling black people the "n" word or calling Asians "slanty eyes" or, again doing the "ching chong" thing. Historically, those derogatory terms came from a much darker place- they were a means of putting people of color down in their place- basically to remind them that they were different and were not equal to the (superior) whites. During the last World War, the Asian stereotypes were put out in the war propaganda to fuel the American zeitgeist against the Japanese (and, of course, to the vast majority of Americans, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, etc. are all the same :rolleyes: ) Conversely, there are no such derogatory terms in our language today that imply that [my race] is superior to caucasians, and caucasians are nothing but lowly _______. It's just not possible; caucasians control every aspect of western society. I'm not saying that it is right or wrong... it's just the way it is. Therefore, in my own estimation, it seems that any sort of derogatory terms about white people are either a) done in jest b) made up by one group of white people to feel superior to another group of white people, e.g., redneck, or c) crafted as an angry response to being oppressed, e.g., Jesse Jackson calling NYC "Himeytown."

Yes, it does sound like a double standard. But this is why it has been socially acceptable for black people to use the "n" word but totally forbidden for white people to use it. Accordingly, to a large degree, I have carte blanche to poke fun at Asian stereotypes, and trust me, I do (along with Margaret Cho, Amy Tan, etc.)! But for whites to do that... not such a good thing. In general, any time you are in a position of dominance, it really is your noblesse oblige to take the highroad when it comes to dealing with people who are at a disadvantage in society. That is why there is a double standard for white people- it is acceptable to knock white people down a peg or two, but it would be racial harassment if the tables were turned.

Let the flames begin! :lol:
For the most part, generally speaking, I agree with you. However, I WAS the victim of racism by a group of black girls when I was in the 7th grade. The odd thing was, eventually another black girl put a stop to it.

Also, there is such a thing as reverse discrimination--my brother experienced it when he was applying to Med school. Granted, its much less prevalent than the usual type of racism/discrimination, but it happens nonetheless. But for the record, as I said, I tend to agree with what you said.

[DrummerDeanna]

Hmm...I think the racism thing may depend somewhat on where you live. There was a lot of white discrimination where I came from - not ANYTHING on par what what other minorities go through mind you...

But Hispanics..mostly Mexicans (fully American - not recent immigrants) are the majority where I'm from - in school - all the way up through high school there were a lot of the gang-banger thug types who made it their duty to harass the white kids....so there is some discrimination there....but again nothing on the scope of what other minorities have and do face today.

[Rickypt]

Aunt Mary is a common slang for a gay republican.


Not for me it's not. Both parties suck when it comes to true gay equality and the main difference is that Dems pretend to be pro-gay and Republicans are honest about it.

I think an "Aunt Mary" would be a gay person who enjoys the benefits of everything fought for by gay activists over the years, but adds to the environment that keeps us from equality. If you're advocating for the Republican party to embrace equality, Brandon, then you're not an Aunt Mary in my opinion.

However...

I think being a gay republican means that you don't get the connection between the struggle for gay equality and the struggles by other oppressed people: women, people of color, the poor, immigrants, etc. Or you don't care about the connection. Because the Democratic Party has a far better record fighting for those other groups and Republicans promote economic and social policies that prioritize the more powerful and advantaged in the country. While taking on "civil rights" issues such as defending a handful of white people who don't get into their preferred law school.

[estranged4life]

Hmm...I think the racism thing may depend somewhat on where you live. There was a lot of white discrimination where I came from - not ANYTHING on par what what other minorities go through mind you...

But Hispanics..mostly Mexicans (fully American - not recent immigrants) are the majority where I'm from - in school - all the way up through high school there were a lot of the gang-banger thug types who made it their duty to harass the white kids....so there is some discrimination there....but again nothing on the scope of what other minorities have and do face today.

I grew up in a city that was (still) racially divided. In my hometown the caucasians were the majority and the blacks the minority (There is about 24 ethnicities represented in Muskogee, OK according to the 2000 US Census). A majority of my friends in Elementary & Jr. High were black and/or poor, We all grew up together so we had similar opinions on most anything since we came from similar backgrounds in the regard to being the poor children of families in the town (ie-Back in 5th grade, When Reagan was shot, our class stood and applauded much to our teacher Mrs.Cliff's disbelief.)

When I was in High School my friends were tossed in with the rich upper-class white kids from the rich 'country club' part of town and though racial tensions did arise, most of the time my friends of color were the ones who would be on the receiving end of the racial BS, and oddly they were the ones made to look the aggressors (Can ya say UTTER BS!!!?? I can.)...

Hell, my younger cousin was a member of a white racist group "the Posse" who started a race riot in my ol school the year I graduated. I remember asking him "Why" and his reason was more racial BS non-sensical reasons "Because they're black...Because blah blah blah".

One summer (1986) when I was playing baseball, I was the only white boy on an all black team, we had to travel out of town to play a team that was the mirror-universe opposites of my team, All white and 1 black. Can you believe the BS "N" word was yelled at us during the game, so much that the game was stopped midway when a fight broke out on the field and my team just decided to leave than contend with that BS. It was weird because I clearly remember the black player on the other team saying the "N" word wasnt aimed at me since I was white...To which I replied "No, I consider what you're saying to my teammates and an insult to me, so when you say that word to them you're saying it to me too."

My Mother worked with plenty of blacks, and the blacks loved my Mom, Because my Mother never judged someone by their skin color, she judged them by their actions. My Mom would quilt "Raggedy-Ann & Andy" dolls for her black friends that were black, not white (Why give a black friend a white doll with red hair? My Mom decided she would make some that were cool and her colored friends loved those dolls-I own the last black pair she ever made)

I am glad I was raised in Muskogee for it gave me the sight to see in a different perspective than had I been born elsewhere.

Brian "The Super Honky...err Injun too" j.

[strandinthewind]

. . . oh and Jason? Tim McVeigh was KILLED for his crimes. Much different than a concentration camp............you're comparing apples and oranges again.

Splat - the sound of my point hitting the wal over your head :wavey:

[irishgrl]

Splat - the sound of my point hitting the wal over your head :wavey:
apple? orange. apple? orange.

you have no point. at least not one that is relative to a discussion on concentration camps :shrug:

[strandinthewind]

In response to gldstwmn's question - "So we should lock up all the Muslims?"

you replied:

"Um I've made it clear that Im not politically correct in this area. In fact, its the ONE area I cant explain why I feel the way I do. So, I guess in sum, Im not the person to ask. Because you wouldnt like my answer."

I took that to mean you think we should lock up all Muslims because they are terrorists, based on the prior comments. So, my point was that yes, pretty much only Muslims have bombed planes, etc. - but white people like McVie have done it as well. So, your "logic" should apply to white people being locked up as well as Muslims :shrug: In sum, it is unfair to group an entire race, religion, whatever into one category based on the actions of relatively few parts of them.

[irishgrl]

In response to gldstwmn's question - "So we should lock up all the Muslims?"

you replied:

"Um I've made it clear that Im not politically correct in this area. In fact, its the ONE area I cant explain why I feel the way I do. So, I guess in sum, Im not the person to ask. Because you wouldnt like my answer."

I took that to mean you think we should lock up all Muslims because they are terrorists, based on the prior comments. So, my point was that yes, pretty much only Muslims have bombed planes, etc. - but white people like McVie have done it as well. So, your "logic" should apply to white people being locked up as well as Muslims :shrug: In sum, it is unfair to group an entire race, religion, whatever into one category based on the actions of relatively few parts of them.
If you would have read a few posts forward from that, I actually addressed that very point, that is: I dont condone concentration camps at all.

[strandinthewind]

If you would have read a few posts forward from that, I actually addressed that very point, that is: I dont condone concentration camps at all.

I did read that bit of back pedaling :laugh:

esp. after your statement "I pray there doesnt come a point where I have to say "I told you so"......." - which was in reference to your being right about not liking your answer to the question of should we put Muslims in concentration camps like we did Japanese Americans :rolleyes:

[irishgrl]

I did read that bit of back pedaling :laugh:

esp. after your statement "I pray there doesnt come a point where I have to say "I told you so"......." - which was in reference to your being right about not liking your answer to the question of should we put Muslims in concentration camps like we did Japanese Americans :rolleyes:
no, that was NOT what it was in reference to, I was referring to the statement I made about seeing an eventual clash between Muslim/Christian.

You never cease to amaze me with your ability to continually mis-read me.

[estranged4life]

So, my point was that yes, pretty much only Muslims have bombed planes, etc. - but white people like McVie have done it as well.

The McVie's are bombers??? :shrug: :laugh:

Now I have seen footage of Christine 'bombed' but not John.

[strandinthewind]

no, that was NOT what it was in reference to, I was referring to the statement I made about seeing an eventual clash between Muslim/Christian.

You never cease to amaze me with your ability to continually mis-read me.


I let the facts speak for themselves.

[strandinthewind]

The McVie's are bombers??? :shrug: :laugh:

Now I have seen footage of Christine 'bombed' but not John.

BWAAAAAAAAAA :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[sparky]

In this day and age, there is no such thing as racism against white people.


I got in an argument with two Mexican guys last week at Home Depot.
It was a stupid thing about a cart.
It was the first time I ever got the race thing tossed at me in my life.
What did they say to me?

"You're gonna be the minority here soon, Motherf*cker. We're taking over and your white bitch ass is gonna be sorry. You notice you're the only white face in this store?"

So, last week, I experienced the hint that your statement isn't completely correct. Not in Los Angeles anyway.

I wasn't "offended." That overused, lame word should be struck from the English language I am so sick of it. But I was taken aback. The whole thing made me think. Because those guys were pissed. And they were right.

[irishgrl]

I let the facts speak for themselves.
you do? by the way, this whole tangent of yours is actually in the wrong thread. I think it belongs in the Holocaust is Myth thread.

[irishgrl]

I got in an argument with two Mexican guys last week at Home Depot.
It was a stupid thing about a cart.
It was the first time I ever got the race thing tossed at me in my life.
What did they say to me?

"You're gonna be the minority here soon, Motherf*cker. We're taking over and your white bitch ass is gonna be sorry. You notice you're the only white face in this store?"

So, last week, I experienced the hint that your statement isn't completely correct. Not in Los Angeles anyway.

I wasn't "offended." That overused, lame word should be struck from the English language I am so sick of it. But I was taken aback. The whole thing made me think. Because those guys were pissed. And they were right.
Sparks, Ive heard that theory before, but not from the Mexicans themselves. it was first brought to my attention in a college class about California...

[amber]

In this day and age, there is no such thing as racism against white people.

Wow, how did I miss this? I've been racially based insulted numerous times. Now, whether or not this extends to institutions, hiring, etc. I can't say.

But as far as individual people and racism, or...reverse racism? It's alive and well, trust.
Also a lot of traditionally "minority" races are much more prejudiced against other "minority" races than most white people I've come in contact with. Asians are notoriously prejudiced against black people for sure (and perhaps others), as are middle eastern people. This is what I've seen.
In fall 2002, UC Berkeley was 46% asian american, the largest percentage attending, with the next highest (white) at only about 30%.
So, really, we can't afford for anyone to be prejudice, traditional "minorities" or not.
This doesn't have much bearing on your experience as a child, but I just wanted to relay that there is racism against whites, and that minorities are fast becoming non minorities, and those minorities can be just as racist if not moreso than white people. And so, while some people think there isn't much danger when "minorities" are prejudice against whites - there can be danger if our institutions are becoming such that a majority of that institution's population is a certain race that may be prejudice, just like there is danger if institutions are primarily white and there is prejudice.
I think the fallacy is that there isn't prejudice against whites. Maybe not so much by other whites (der), but that isn't the reality of america's racial makeup.

[cliffdweller]

First off, Michelle Malkin is a f&**ing right wing Auntie Tomasina c*nt! She is an utter disgrace to the human race. I wouldn't p*ss on her if she was on fire.

Okay... being of Asian extraction, I think I can add some insight to this... For one thing, I don't think Rosie was intentionally trying to be offensive. The fact is that for some reason it has always been "okay" to mock Asian people, especially Chinese people, in the most patently offensive ways- pushing the corners of the eyes up, sticking out the front teeth and making fun of the language with all of the "ching chong, ching chong" crap. It's classic playground behavior. And apparently Rosie has plenty of that kind of immaturity to get over.

And for those who don't really understand it, I guess this is another one of those "it's an Asian thing; you wouldn't understand" topics. I don't think most people here know what it's like to have been taunted by gangs of thugs as a kid while they hurled rocks at us doing the whole "slanty eye" "ching chong" thing. They threw rocks at my grandmother! I don't think most people here know what it's like to attend a hick mostly white private school and being the only minority and being taunted constantly with the "slanty eye" "ching chong" thing. And most of you don't know what it's like to have your white trash ignorant history teacher patronizing you by calling you his "little Asian connection," which totally exacerbated the whole "ching chong" thing even more. And it isn't like I was some walking encyclopedia of Asian stereotypes: I don't have really slanty eyes and I have always spoken perfect unaccented English (I would dare say, better than most native born Americans). As a result I went through a very long time of being ashamed of my ethnicity; almost as if everybody managed to convince me that, indeed, there was something wrong with being Asian and that Asians were inferior to whites. I guess you can say I wrestled with my cultural identity issues for a very, very long time. My parents made a point of trying to assimilate us into the mainstream rather than settling down in some Asian ghetto, and I'm very, very glad they did this. But, unfortunately, this is the price we paid. Do you think enduring all of this as a child was deeply hurtful and offensive? You'd better believe it.

I am glad that Asians as a community finally "grew a pair" and started denouncing this sort of thing in the media. If people think this is being excessively politically correct, then I'm all for being excessively politically correct. And for someone like Rosie doing the whole "ching chong" thing on national television brings back some very bad memories. Shame on her! Especially for someone who is supposed to be THE role model for gay parenting. I hope she is not teaching her children that intimidating minorities with this type of offensive conduct is okay, especially since she is part of a persecuted minority as well.

I understand your hatred, but "white trash?" And in a thread about racial sensitivity? Your point was well made until that little hate phrase popped up.

[sparky]

I understand your hatred, but "white trash?" And in a thread about racial sensitivity? Your point was well made until that little hate phrase popped up.

White trash is a hate phrase now ?

I am so out of it when it comes to this, and frankly, I am happier for it.

I can't possibly keep up with people's hot button victim phrases, and I no longer try.

[DrummerDeanna]

White trash is a hate phrase now ?

I am so out of it when it comes to this, and frankly, I am happier for it.

I can't possibly keep up with people's hot button victim phrases, and I no longer try.

:lol: I'm the same way...when someone started saying that "wet back" was no longer the Mexican bash phrase..it's now "scratch back" :laugh:

At that point, I gave up even trying to know what all the hot button terms are...:laugh:

[cliffdweller]

White trash is a hate phrase now?

Let me ask you this: how is calling someone white trash any different than calling someone a n****r?

So yeah, that phrase is rife with hatred in my opinion. I'm not taking this up as my hobby horse or anything [because god forbid I should espouse ANYTHING remotely p.c. :rolleyes:], I'm just pointing out the inconsistencies in people's views about these kinds of terms.

[strandinthewind]

As mentioned earlier, there exists this whole line of thought that white people (apparently all of them) cannot be discrimminated against by minorities essentially because white people did the majority of the discrimminating in recent history. Personally, I think this is hogwash because discrimmination based on a stereotype is all the same to me and the mocking of one class or type of person is equally hateful if put forth in that manner. I do think, however, humor is allowed in this area a la Rosie, who certainly was not being anything hateful at all.

The line drawing though is funny to me because black people can be as racist as they want to each other and white people and it's all fine and dandy. It does not work the other way though. Maybe one day that will not be so and I think we will be the better for it.

[sparky]

Let me ask you this: how is calling someone white trash any different than calling someone a n****r?

So yeah, that phrase is rife with hatred in my opinion. I'm not taking this up as my hobby horse or anything [because god forbid I should espouse ANYTHING remotely p.c. :rolleyes:], I'm just pointing out the inconsistencies in people's views about these kinds of terms.

In my view it's not even close to the same thing.

White Trash is just a phrase for low class, sloppy living, uneducated white people. My hometown was full of them. I use that phrase all the time. I think it's funny. It's a whole way of life, being white trash. I don't find it loaded at all. It's like redneck to me. In fact, sometimes when I go back to Oregon my pals and I have white trash parties - cheap beer, bad hot dogs, greasy potato salad, Molly Hatchet and Lynyrd Skynrd on the stereo, and TV in the front yard. What that has to do with a slur against black people...I have no idea.

[Rickypt]

As mentioned earlier, there exists this whole line of thought that white people (apparently all of them) cannot be discrimminated against by minorities essentially because white people did the majority of the discrimminating in recent history.

I don't think that's the argument. I think the argument is that there can't be racism against white people, because whites hold the power in all facets of society. If I understand that correctly, then the argument is that built into racism is a power dynamic.

I'm not sure I agree with the argument as put forth by Spike Lee and Hejira, because a white person can be racist, as it's defined by every dictionary I have looked up online.

I do agree, though, that because of power dynamics, people of color are severely disproportionately impacted by racism and discriminatory actions. And that is why I understand why the ching-chong thing was considered hurtful by so many in the Asian community, regardless of my own take on it.

[cliffdweller]

In my view it's not even close to the same thing.

White Trash is just a phrase for low class, sloppy living, uneducated white people. My hometown was full of them. I use that phrase all the time. I think it's funny. It's a whole way of life, being white trash. I don't find it loaded at all. It's like redneck to me. In fact, sometimes when I go back to Oregon my pals and I have white trash parties - cheap beer, bad hot dogs, greasy potato salad, Molly Hatchet and Lynyrd Skynrd on the stereo, and TV in the front yard. What that has to do with a slur against black people...I have no idea.

Well, it's obvious that we don't agree on the basic premise of this argument so there's no going forward with it. I'll just say that white trash is not a good phrase, and to me, it's the equivalent of the n-word, or calling Mexicans "wetbacks," or Italians w.o.p.'s, etc. They are all racial and or ethnic slurs, it's just that white trash happens to hit most squarely at the socio-economic level than mere race or ethnicity. To call someone white trash is descriminatory and classist, it's just that people (mainly whites) tend to be very de-sensitized and or just generally unbothered by the term. But to throw hands in the air and claim that you can't see the parallel that exists between the term "white trash" and other racial/ethnic/socio-economic slurs is just plain ridiculous. I'm sure that you can imagine why one would make such an argument. If not, really, forget it.

[Rickypt]

White trash: not even close to being the same as the N word, in my opinon. The n word used throughout history in a vicious manner, associated with violence, slavery, and treating a group of people as less than human.

I don't particularly like the term white trash because it demeans an economic class (agree with cliffdweller) and why use the word trash to talk about someone? But I didn't grow up in the same environment as sparky, so I think the term is probably used without malice by many people.

[sparky]

Well, it's obvious that we don't agree on the basic premise of this argument so there's no going forward with it.

We probably don't agree on the premise. I just don't take it as seriously. I don't allow words that kind of power anymore in my world.


I'll just say that white trash is not a good phrase, and to me, it's the equivalent of the n-word, or calling Mexicans "wetbacks," or Italians w.o.p.'s, etc. They are all racial and or ethnic slurs, it's just that white trash happens to hit most squarely at the socio-economic level than mere race or ethnicity. To call someone white trash is descriminatory and classist, it's just that people (mainly whites) tend to be very de-sensitized and or just generally unbothered by the term.

The reason I think it is different is that it's just as much about not having good taste. It's a little about being lazy and a little about being sloppy, and a lot about not giving a ****. It's really not about being white. Being poor doesn't mean you can't dress in clean clothes, wipe your kids noses and faces, and keep garbage out of your front yard. Or take down your Christmas lights. You can have a junk piece of crap car, but at least wash the damned thing and take out the fast food bags. I knew plenty of people growing up who came from families without much money. Not all of them had cars parked in the front yard, a dog tied to the front porch, dead lawns, screen door half off the hinges, empty beer cans littering the living room, newspapers piled up, etc. And the ones who didn't were not always from families of more means.

I know that certain people in the past called others white trash as a put down that had the subtext of implying they were "beneath their race". Kind of like whites who live like poor blacks - a thing born of old school mostly southern race talk. But I don't look at it that way. Never did. And no one I know means it like that.

But to throw hands in the air and claim that you can't see the parallel that exists between the term "white trash" and other racial/ethnic/socio-economic slurs is just plain ridiculous. I'm sure that you can imagine why one would make such an argument. If not, really, forget it.

It's not ridiculous. I can see that some people in the past spit the term out that way, but I think we are in a different era. I have never heard it uttered with contempt the way I have heard the standard issue "slurs." In fact, the other night, I was talking to some people at my house and they asked me where I grew up. I told them I grew up in Oregon, in the suburbs of Portland. And that I grew up in an area where I damn well could have been white trash but I rose above it. We all laughed and they said they were the same. So, I may see how you can make your argument, but I just don't think it's all that valid.

[strandinthewind]

In my view it's not even close to the same thing.

White Trash is just a phrase for low class, sloppy living, uneducated white people. My hometown was full of them. I use that phrase all the time. I think it's funny. It's a whole way of life, being white trash. I don't find it loaded at all. It's like redneck to me. In fact, sometimes when I go back to Oregon my pals and I have white trash parties - cheap beer, bad hot dogs, greasy potato salad, Molly Hatchet and Lynyrd Skynrd on the stereo, and TV in the front yard. What that has to do with a slur against black people...I have no idea.


Most people use the term ni**er to refer to black people who are lower in class a la the people of your hometown as opposed to terming all black people as ni**ers. The difference is black people were once slaves and have a history of oppression. Most white people do not, though certainly some do.

[BTFLCHLD]

"You're gonna be the minority here soon, Motherf*cker. We're taking over and your white bitch ass is gonna be sorry. You notice you're the only white face in this store?" :eek: what did you do/say in response?

[strandinthewind]

White trash: not even close to being the same as the N word, in my opinon. The n word used throughout history in a vicious manner, associated with violence, slavery, and treating a group of people as less than human.

I don't particularly like the term white trash because it demeans an economic class (agree with cliffdweller) and why use the word trash to talk about someone? But I didn't grow up in the same environment as sparky, so I think the term is probably used without malice by many people.

And black people and some white people use ni**er without malice all the time too - e.g. "ni**er please" in response to a silly question.

[sparky]

:eek: what did you do/say in response?

"F*ck you both" is what I said.

[BTFLCHLD]

"F*ck you both" is what I said. :xoxo: That's what I wanted to read!

[wondergirl9847]

Did anyone here have a say in your ethnic background? Did you have a conversation with your parents before your own birth?

I'll go ahead and say a collective NO for everyone here. :laugh:

Seriously though, I'll NEVER EVER understand how someone can say another person is inferior for being a certain race. We do not get to choose WHAT we are, but we can choose WHO we are. You wanna be a jerkface...you chose to be so. You wanna be a nice, decent person, you chose that. But, nobody can choose to be a particular race. No Michael Jackson jokes here, okay.

It saddens me when people like HejiraNYC say they were ashamed of being Asian. Nothing is wrong with being Asian or black or white or Hispanic, etc. I don't like to say I'm a white person, because I literally am not white. I am not an albino person. I have a varied background, with Italian, Irish, German and Native American descent. I know what white means, but I hate being called a white person. I'm a HUMAN BEING.

A friend of mine asked me once how I felt going into a Middle Eastern restaurant. I said "What do you mean?" and he asked "Do you feel anger towards the people who work here because of 9/11?" I said "Why would I feel anger towards people I don't know? They didn't do anything. They are making my meal."

I was taught to love everyone and not judge. I wish that everyone in the world were taught that as well. :(

[estranged4life]

Most of my adult life I have had Indians in this hellhole town tell me I'm not really Indian since I am not 100% of pure Indian blood.

I have had white people (In this same town) tell me I am 'trash' for being of Indian blood and not having $$$$...Yeah, like I had a choice in how I was created and who created me. "Gee Mom could you be more Indian...Hey Dad, Can ya be less redskinned and more pale-skinned? Ya know a reverse sun-tan"

Wanna know my reply to both sides (Among other people)? It's the "360 degree F.U."-Outstretch your arms and lift the middle finger on both hands, now spin (Like that ol' Stevie witch during "Stand Back") in a complete circle with both fingers extended and say "F**k you!!!" That pretty much covers everyone all at the same time :thumbsup:

[skcin]

For the most part, generally speaking, I agree with you. However, I WAS the victim of racism by a group of black girls when I was in the 7th grade. The odd thing was, eventually another black girl put a stop to it.



Why is that odd?

And what did they do to you?

[michelle2677]

And black people and some white people use ni**er without malice all the time too - e.g. "ni**er please" in response to a silly question.

I use "n*gga" all the time. (which oddly enough I think is different than "N*gger".) But it is only used like you said "n*gga please" ....but I use cracka and honkey too..so...:shrug: :lol:
My father is very racist. They are divorced and in the 8th grade my best friend was black and she was not even allowed to come over :mad: :mad: My mother on the other hand-brought me up right and thankfully for her I see people for who they are, not the color of their skin.

[DrummerDeanna]

^^

My grandparents were somewhat racist...like they had black friends - but if any of us dated a black person - oh. my. God. All hell broke loose- though they also didn't much like us dating white people either :rolleyes:

One of my cousins got knocked up a few years ago by her boyfriend (black). and my grandma called my mom all panicked...my mom couldn't figure out why she was in such a panic until finally my grandma said about my cousin's boyfriend, "he's a negrito!" My mom said, "well in this day and age be thankful she's having a baby with a man and not a woman..." My grandma hung up on her :lol:

They've let up in the last few years- but for older generations I guess it's hard to let go of the old notions....thankfully they did NOT pass down any racial prejudices to their kids - and therefore me and my cousins didn't get any passed down to us :o

[HejiraNYC]

"You're gonna be the minority here soon, Motherf*cker. We're taking over and your white bitch ass is gonna be sorry. You notice you're the only white face in this store?"

So, last week, I experienced the hint that your statement isn't completely correct. Not in Los Angeles anyway.



I'm sorry that you had this very unpleasant exchange. What they said was really, really uncalled for. However... in the spectrum of "racial epithets," that registers, very, very low. It's a flesh wound. It's almost like calling someone a "rich bitch" or a "yuppie." It's a dig at you, but it's also indirectly saying that you are in a better position in life than they are. Again, it's the power dynamic that exists.

You know all too well that Mexicans in this country, legal or not, are all perceived to be illegal, uneducated leeches on society, when, if anything, the U.S. today cannot function without them. Accordingly, even in this day and age, it almost seems acceptable to display overt signs of racism against Mexicans. When the difficult issue of Mexican immigration comes up, it seems that everybody's flaming crosses come right out of the closet... and it's okay. :distress:

The Mexican guys are angry at those who hold power in America (the whites), the ones who have the biggest houses and the biggest cars (the whites), and the regime that wants to criminalize them. Unfortunately you happened to be a whipping post for some of their frustration. I'm not saying it was acceptable or appropriate... only understandable. :shrug:

[HejiraNYC]

I understand your hatred, but "white trash?" And in a thread about racial sensitivity? Your point was well made until that little hate phrase popped up.

Goodness, gracious! Hatred?? Where the f*ck did you detect "hatred" in my post. I was just trying to get a point across about perspective... that people in different circumstances will perceive things differently.

As for "white trash," I stand by the double standard that exists today for white people (as I had described in an earlier post) :lol: . I suppose I could have used the term "trailer trash," which is racially nondescript, but it would have been rather awkward for me to describe my history teacher as "trailer trash who happened to be of the caucasian persuation." "White trash" is more direct and to the point. Anyway... can you blame me for getting my digs at him after the horrendous way he singled me out? A teacher could get fired for such conduct these days...

[BTFLCHLD]

"F*ck you both" is what I said.
sparky, this gave me giggles in the driveway...imagining you...cutie.

[HejiraNYC]

As mentioned earlier, there exists this whole line of thought that white people (apparently all of them) cannot be discrimminated against by minorities essentially because white people did the majority of the discrimminating in recent history. Personally, I think this is hogwash because discrimmination based on a stereotype is all the same to me and the mocking of one class or type of person is equally hateful if put forth in that manner.


I totally call bull***** on this. It's not all equally hateful. For example, if you were walking down the sidewalk and you accidentally bumped the shoulder of the person walking in the opposite direction, and he said loudly, "watch it, you honkey!" would you be offended? Probably not. What if he said "watch it, you b*tt-f**king f@ggot pansy a$$?" I don't know about you, but that would piss me the heck off. I would quickly think about stupid thugs like him who probably make a sport of taunting gays and who has probably beaten them up too. Gays are minorities too. And we all know that Rosie can get her boxer shorts all up in a bunch when she smells something anti-gay in the air, e.g., the whole Kelly Ripa-Clay Aiken affair. "rolleyes: :lol:

It's not all the same.

[markolas]

Most people use the term ni**er to refer to black people who are lower in class a la the people of your hometown as opposed to terming all black people as ni**ers.

I've never heard that. Members of my family used the "n" word quite liberally, and it was clear to me that it applied to all black people. My great aunt moved out of her still upper middle class neighborhood and into a much more expensive, exclusive one, because too many blacks had moved in. And who should buy a house right behind her in the "exclusive" neighborhood but a rich black family. But to her, they were still n***ers. She even said that she thought the NAACP must've put them in that house, because "how else could a [black person] afford to live there?"

[HejiraNYC]

I'll just say that white trash is not a good phrase, and to me, it's the equivalent of the n-word, or calling Mexicans "wetbacks," or Italians w.o.p.'s, etc. They are all racial and or ethnic slurs, it's just that white trash happens to hit most squarely at the socio-economic level than mere race or ethnicity. To call someone white trash is descriminatory and classist, it's just that people (mainly whites) tend to be very de-sensitized and or just generally unbothered by the term. But to throw hands in the air and claim that you can't see the parallel that exists between the term "white trash" and other racial/ethnic/socio-economic slurs is just plain ridiculous. I'm sure that you can imagine why one would make such an argument. If not, really, forget it.

White trash knows no socioeconomic boundaries. It's more of a mindset. For me "trash" equals "common, as in bad taste." So for example, as much as I loves me some Dolly, she does have certain "white trash" sensibilities, which may very well be part of her stage persona for all we know. She's richer than God, but her feet are planted firmly in the trailer park. And she's not exactly paying attention to the latest fashion trends, to put it mildly.

The same applies to "Eurotrash," which again refers to "common, as in bad European taste." These are usually people from Europe who are actually very well-to-do. It's just that they are exquisitely pretentious and have awful taste in clothes and music. And they are very common (at least in NY, anyway). :shrug:

[HejiraNYC]

It saddens me when people like HejiraNYC say they were ashamed of being Asian. Nothing is wrong with being Asian or black or white or Hispanic, etc. I don't like to say I'm a white person, because I literally am not white. I am not an albino person. I have a varied background, with Italian, Irish, German and Native American descent. I know what white means, but I hate being called a white person. I'm a HUMAN BEING.

A friend of mine asked me once how I felt going into a Middle Eastern restaurant. I said "What do you mean?" and he asked "Do you feel anger towards the people who work here because of 9/11?" I said "Why would I feel anger towards people I don't know? They didn't do anything. They are making my meal."

I was taught to love everyone and not judge. I wish that everyone in the world were taught that as well. :(

Let me underscore that my shame is in the past tense. :nod: :thumbsup: :xoxo: I am not as hung up on racial stuff as I used to be... of course, being in NYC, everybody is a minority! And of course, I agree with everything you said... and I only wish things were that simple.

But *****'s complicated, you dig?

[sparky]

I'm sorry that you had this very unpleasant exchange. What they said was really, really uncalled for. However... in the spectrum of "racial epithets," that registers, very, very low. It's a flesh wound. It's almost like calling someone a "rich bitch" or a "yuppie." It's a dig at you, but it's also indirectly saying that you are in a better position in life than they are. Again, it's the power dynamic that exists.

I'm glad you think it was a flesh wound. It wasn't that big of a deal, no. **** happens to people. I've had worse days. However, if you could have seen the sneers on their faces, their balled up fists, and the way they both stepped forward like for all the world they were gonna beat the f*ck out of me because I'm white, you might not dismiss it so quickly. If it had been dark, and we had been in the parking lot and not the store, I am pretty sure I would have had a fight on my hands.

You know all too well that Mexicans in this country, legal or not, are all perceived to be illegal, uneducated leeches on society, when, if anything, the U.S. today cannot function without them. Accordingly, even in this day and age, it almost seems acceptable to display overt signs of racism against Mexicans. When the difficult issue of Mexican immigration comes up, it seems that everybody's flaming crosses come right out of the closet... and it's okay. :distress:

Yeah, it couldn't function with certain people making such a large profit, and prices being low because people accept slave wages. And I couldn't rail about people who have 7 kids and can't afford to support two. But that's another thread!

The Mexican guys are angry at those who hold power in America (the whites), the ones who have the biggest houses and the biggest cars (the whites), and the regime that wants to criminalize them.

No one needs to criminalize them. The law already does that. The laws aren't new.

Unfortunately you happened to be a whipping post for some of their frustration. I'm not saying it was acceptable or appropriate... only understandable. :shrug:

I'm wondering if you have gone to this trouble to think out and find understandable the racist **** you have had to go through.
Just curious.

[irishgrl]

Let us not forget that Imperial China considered any Non-Chinese "barbarians"...as did the Greeks, and many other cultures. This social phenomenon of "us" versus "them" is not new by any means.

Reverse discrimination is no less discrimination and no less painful.

[HejiraNYC]

Yeah, it couldn't function with certain people making such a large profit, and prices being low because people accept slave wages. And I couldn't rail about people who have 7 kids and can't afford to support two. But that's another thread!

The whole Mexican immigration issue is very complicated and I am not sure which side of the issue I am on. Yes, Mexican workers are exploited to benefit The Man. And yes, prices for goods, merchandise and services are kept low artificially because some Mexicans are willing to work longer and harder for less money. But what are the alternatives? In this day and age it does seem to me that there are menial jobs that native-born, English speaking people would refuse to do; they would take unemployment or welfare before doing these kinds of jobs. So who is going to do these jobs when the country's entitlement system incentivizes U.S. citizens to not work? Illegals. Okay... alternatively, we could unionize all of these jobs and every maid, janitor, fruit picker and dishwasher will be paid $35 an hour plus full healthcare, pensions and early retirement so that these jobs would be more appealing to American citizens. Then the cost of a happy meal at McDonalds would be $15. An apple would cost $5. The things we take for granted now would become extremely expensive, which means that our standards of living would go down tremendously. As a society, do we really want this?

Deep down, I do wish all people, especially those with the most laborious jobs, would earn a decent living wage. But that is a Utopian, socialist idyll that is somewhat at odds with the American psyche, which is about free markets, capitalism, and trickle-down economics. On the other hand... we all enjoy, perhaps artificially, great qualities of life on the backs of cheap/illegal labor, whether we realize it or are willing to admit it or not. As someone currently building a house, this goes through my mind a lot. It's definitely a moral dilemma... I try to do my part to ensure that the contractors are receiving a decent wage... but sometimes that's out of my control. :distress:



I'm wondering if you have gone to this trouble to think out and find understandable the racist **** you have had to go through.
Just curious.

I think the feeling of superiority is an inherent part of human nature. I don't think babies come out of the womb feeling humble, restrained and grateful. They scream when they're hungry, scream when they've soiled themselves, scream when they get a boo-boo. Humility and respect for others is a learned behavior. Unfortunately so is racism and the feeling of racial superiority. And for whatever reason, this whole notion of "America is #1" has become synonymous with "Whites are #1." It seems ironic that the most ardent flag-waving "patriots" are usually the ones with the confederate flag stickers on their bumpers. Patriotism in this country less about the fact that we are a melting pot of immigrants as it is about having the firepower to kick the ass of any country that tries to mess with our "American way of life."

That being said, I think for many Americans, Asians = easy target because they don't fight back. Especially when you are in an area that is pretty much all-white. It's an easy opportunity for people to feel better about themselves at the expense of others. In other words, "thank goodness I'm American, unlike you," which is also along the lines of "why don't you go back to your own country." I've actually been told this! Of course it's easy for me to process this in hindsight and to feel pity for the idiots who would say and do such things (especially since their parents were probably even bigger idiots). But when you are outnumbered and backed up against a wall and you don't know any better, it's not so easy to be forgiving.

More recently, I've noticed that the worst perpetrators of the whole "ching chong" thing have been black. I honestly have no idea why this is the case. Perhaps it's a way of saying "you are the new n***ers in this country." :shrug:

Okay... time to lighten up!

[HejiraNYC]

Let us not forget that Imperial China considered any Non-Chinese "barbarians"...as did the Greeks, and many other cultures. This social phenomenon of "us" versus "them" is not new by any means.

Reverse discrimination is no less discrimination and no less painful.

Japan is the most racist nation of them all! Even to this day, racism against Koreans is not only out in the open, it is actively encouraged. This all ties back to the imperial Japanese occupation of Korea many, many years ago.

Still, this does not mean that Japanese people should be given a taste of their own medicine in the U.S. Two Wongs don't make a White.

I know... bad joke. :p :sorry: :lol:

[mikeschmike]

Two Wongs don't make a White.

So this is okay but Rosie's ching chong comments are racist? See, you talk about this issue enough and sooner or later you're going to contradict yourself.

[Rickypt]

So this is okay but Rosie's ching chong comments are racist? See, you talk about this issue enough and sooner or later you're going to contradict yourself.

He's been clear that being of Asian descent gives him latitude to make these kinds of jokes.

I'm still stuck on the fact that white people apparently say the N word in some kind of non-harmful way, like "N word, please". While I get it isn't being used in an intentionally harmful way, I just can't see why any white person would even want to say that word. I kind of don't get why black people use it either, but it's not my community and I don't pretend to know what they should/shouldn't do.

[cliffdweller]

Anyway... can you blame me for getting my digs at him after the horrendous way he singled me out?

Nope. It's just that it's hypocritical for you to call someone "white trash" when you're making an argument for racial sensitivity. It's like the pot calling the kettle black, get it?

I also find it quite alarming that some people hold the notion that there is no such thing as descrimination against white people. Poor whites who live in under-developed, and/or poor socio-economic conditions (or who come from such a background) are indeed descriminated against and called such wonderfully socially accepted (from the climate around here anyway) names as "trailer trash," and "white trash." Some also seem to be under the impression that these groups are not oppressed. Sure they are, it's just not racial oppression, so much as it's socio-economic, and in some instances, ethnic. Why is it so hard to wrap one's brain around that? It exists, now quit back-peddling with ludicrous arguments about how white people can't be oppressed and/or descriminated against. It's just not true!

[skcin]

I use "n*gga" all the time. (which oddly enough I think is different than "N*gger".) But it is only used like you said "n*gga please" ....but I use cracka and honkey too..so...:shrug: :lol:
My father is very racist. They are divorced and in the 8th grade my best friend was black and she was not even allowed to come over :mad: :mad: My mother on the other hand-brought me up right and thankfully for her I see people for who they are, not the color of their skin.

Do you use that term around black people? :shocked: If so, how do they react?

My dad is pretty racist. Which I find both sad and amusing since he is an immigrant. :p I like to point that out to him "hey dad, don't forget, you're a minority too!" He doesn't necessarily hate based on skin color, but he does judge.


They've let up in the last few years- but for older generations I guess it's hard to let go of the old notions....thankfully they did NOT pass down any racial prejudices to their kids - and therefore me and my cousins didn't get any passed down to us :o

My niece is dating a black guy right now. She refuses to tell her dad, even though everyone else in the fam knows & doesn't have issues with it. Well, I'm sure some of them have issues, but nobody's disowning her or anything. It makes me sad that people my age (and by my age, I guess I mean 40 & younger...) have race issues.


The Mexican guys are angry at those who hold power in America (the whites), the ones who have the biggest houses and the biggest cars (the whites), and the regime that wants to criminalize them. Unfortunately you happened to be a whipping post for some of their frustration. I'm not saying it was acceptable or appropriate... only understandable. :shrug:

Personally, I agree with you that no term is that derogatory towards whites. The worst I've been called is a "white bitch." Was I a little upset? Of course. But I can deal with 1 or 2 isolated incidents.

BUT - your last observation seems to say "well, it wasn't cool but I can see why they wanted to beat the sh*t out of you." I have a problem with this, because if that's the case it could be applied to all situations. Like, if black people robbed my house it would be understandable for me to hate all blacks & call them n*ggers? A lot of people defend their views with stuff like this - "well, this happened to me, so it's OK." And I don't think it is.

I've never heard that. Members of my family used the "n" word quite liberally, and it was clear to me that it applied to all black people.

Exactly. The people I know that say that word (which I honest to God cannot bring myself to utter, even in a discussion like this) say it to demean. They aren't saying "you're a poor uneducated black person." They're saying "you are an inferior human being." They're saying "I am better than you and you are beneath me simply because I am white." I know what the word itself actually means, but that's not how it's most often used.

[skcin]

It's like the pot calling the kettle black, get it?


Well, Pot's obviously a racist bastard. :mad:



Sorry, just trying to make light of a heavy situation. :p

[sparky]

Well, Pot's obviously a racist bastard. :mad:


Which Pot?

Pol Pot ?

:lol:

[SuzeQuze]

Thanks, you just reminded me that I had the same question earlier, but didn't want to google it at work for fear breasts would pop up or something...

HEre's what I found:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_twins

rish twins is a slang term that refers to siblings born 9 to 12 months apart - usually in the same calendar year, or who are in the same class in school. It references a perception about families of Irish Catholics who may not use birth control (and thus may have children in quicker succession), but it is often used endearingly by the families of the "twins" themselves.

Yeah, I have cousins that are Irish twins and they do not find that offensive. :shrug:

[SuzeQuze]

I'm sorry i dont have time to read through this entire thread. As for the original post-you really have to pick your battles. People say all the time that kentuckians are stupid rednecks and because of our accents sound unintelligent and have....less than average oral hygiene skills :lol: its a joke. I get it. Move on. Now if someone attacks me personally ? Its on :laugh:

It's different though because no one ever locked up your ancestors for their lack of intelligence or oral hygiene.

[skcin]

Which Pot?

Pol Pot ?

:lol:


No. Stock Pot.

[SuzeQuze]

Oh geez... I think I'm going to start a race war on the Ledge :lol: even though it is not my intention. All I can say is that:

In this day and age, there is no such thing as racism against white people.

And this is hardly an original concept. I believe it was Spike Lee who got into some hot water by stating his opinion about this in the media many years ago... and it was largely dismissed by the (mostly white) media.

But I happen to believe it is true. And it's hard to make this point without sounding like some kind of white-hating radical activist, which I am not (hullo, music does not get any "whiter" than Fleetwood Mac :lol: ). It's just that in the western world, caucasians are in a position of dominance- culturally, economically, politically, etc. This means that they are not exactly in a position of being persecuted, marginalized, criminalized or otherwise at a disadvantage in life because of the color of their skin or the language that they speak. So yes, I do realize that there are instances in largely ethnic neighborhoods where whites are technically in the minority. And I do realize that there are white stereotypes perpetrated in the media, e.g., that straight white boys can't dance, all white girls talk like Valley Girls, etc. But this is not the same as calling black people the "n" word or calling Asians "slanty eyes" or, again doing the "ching chong" thing. Historically, those derogatory terms came from a much darker place- they were a means of putting people of color down in their place- basically to remind them that they were different and were not equal to the (superior) whites. During the last World War, the Asian stereotypes were put out in the war propaganda to fuel the American zeitgeist against the Japanese (and, of course, to the vast majority of Americans, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, etc. are all the same :rolleyes: ) Conversely, there are no such derogatory terms in our language today that imply that [my race] is superior to caucasians, and caucasians are nothing but lowly _______. It's just not possible; caucasians control every aspect of western society. I'm not saying that it is right or wrong... it's just the way it is. Therefore, in my own estimation, it seems that any sort of derogatory terms about white people are either a) done in jest b) made up by one group of white people to feel superior to another group of white people, e.g., redneck, or c) crafted as an angry response to being oppressed, e.g., Jesse Jackson calling NYC "Himeytown."

Yes, it does sound like a double standard. But this is why it has been socially acceptable for black people to use the "n" word but totally forbidden for white people to use it. Accordingly, to a large degree, I have carte blanche to poke fun at Asian stereotypes, and trust me, I do (along with Margaret Cho, Amy Tan, etc.)! But for whites to do that... not such a good thing. In general, any time you are in a position of dominance, it really is your noblesse oblige to take the highroad when it comes to dealing with people who are at a disadvantage in society. That is why there is a double standard for white people- it is acceptable to knock white people down a peg or two, but it would be racial harassment if the tables were turned.

Let the flames begin! :lol:

When I was in Kenya I felt there was a reverence for white skin if anything. But I don't think it deserves that. I do see your point about there not being such a thing as racism against white people. But just becuase it doesn't pack a punch that doesn't mean it isn't racism. Just because trying to knock down the race doesn't knock it down that doesn't mean it isn't racist to call whites crackers or whatever. But is it offensive? No it isn't to most. However, if the tables become turned, should another race become dominant, and then persecute white people, it will be. I for one do not think this is impossible. Basically I think jokes about whites are racist. Of course they are. They're jokes making fun of a race. They just may not be offensive. Not yet.

[amber]

More recently, I've noticed that the worst perpetrators of the whole "ching chong" thing have been black. I honestly have no idea why this is the case. Perhaps it's a way of saying "you are the new n***ers in this country." :shrug:


Or maybe it is a way to say "why do you kick us out of your stores when we aren't doing anything wrong"? :shrug:

No one should be racist, but a lot of asian americans are. And this dynamic kind of shows that disrespect breeds disrespect, either way, whoever starts it.

And on edit, I see that many here aren't that offended by racist things said to white people. I am. Racism is wrong, and a lack of respect for me because of my skin color is just as bad as the reverse - either way it is a lack of respect based on skin color. Regardless of who and who has not been persecuted in the past, still nothing makes skin color as the basis of judgment and disrespect okay.
If you're going to call someone a b*tch, just leave it at that, no need to bring their race into it.

[SuzeQuze]

Just so you know, Im not condoning concentration camps. I never said that in any post. When Chris asked me if I supported locking up Muslims in camps, I responded by saying that the issue of my feelings for the Muslims (specifically the terrorists by the way) is the one area where I deviate from my normal Liberal leanings. I categorically hate them.
That said, however, I do NOT condone any sort of forced lockup, and Im not happy about the treatment of prisoners at Gitmo or Abu Ghraib (sp?).

oh and Jason? Tim McVeigh was KILLED for his crimes. Much different than a concentration camp............you're comparing apples and oranges again.

Okay that really is racist and offensive. I have had friends who are Muslim and I just don't get how you can paint them all with such a broad brush. It's the same attitude, albeit reversed, that is driving them to come after us. A blind hatred.

[irishgrl]

Okay that really is racist and offensive. I have had friends who are Muslim and I just don't get how you can paint them all with such a broad brush. It's the same attitude, albeit reversed, that is driving them to come after us. A blind hatred.

please note:

I responded by saying that the issue of my feelings for the Muslims (specifically the terrorists by the way) is the one area where I deviate from my normal Liberal leanings
I am speaking of the terrorists here. If you dont understand how I can hate the terrorists after 9/11 then I dont know what more to say.......what I said regarding the Moderates was that I felt they could/should do more to control the radical element in their religion. Carrie had responded by saying that we are all responsible for our own actions and that it was not fair to hold a group responsible for the actions of a few (or some). I told her I saw her point.

I will add this however: when it is common knowledge that money is consistently being funneled to these extremists to continue to wreak their havoc I have to wonder if these so-called extremists arent actually representing the secret feelings/desires of the group as a whole. If not, then why arent more moderates coming forward and denouncing this crap? Why arent the money sources being dried up? why arent more terrorist hiding places and training camps being exposed? Why are Madrassas always full to the brim? Hatred of the West is rampant in that part of the world and you cant say that my recent change of heart since 9/11 is the cause. As I said before, I had a live and let live attitude until then, and I firmly believe that only the Muslims can bring about the needed changes in this situation.
Its a sure bet these radicals wont listen to anything the West has to say.....:shrug:

[skcin]

I am speaking of the terrorists here. If you dont understand how I can hate the terrorists after 9/11 then I dont know what more to say.......

I responded by saying that the issue of my feelings for the Muslims (specifically the terrorists by the way) is the one area where I deviate from my normal Liberal leanings. I categorically hate them.

I'm reading your above quote again, and I want to know if you hate all Muslims, or just the terrorists who are Muslim? Or do you assume that all Muslims might be terrorists?

[irishgrl]

I'm reading your above quote again, and I want to know if you hate all Muslims, or just the terrorists who are Muslim? Or do you assume that all Muslims might be terrorists?
To be clear: My hatred is reserved for the terrorists. I am very unhappy and deeply disappointed with the Moderates for not standing up and doing what they could to change things. And I am convinced there is much each individual could do, examples of which I outlined above.

I think this bears repeating:

I will add this however: when it is common knowledge that money is consistently being funneled to these extremists to continue to wreak their havoc I have to wonder if these so-called extremists arent actually representing the secret feelings/desires of the group as a whole. If not, then why arent more moderates coming forward and denouncing this crap? Why arent the money sources being dried up? why arent more terrorist hiding places and training camps being exposed? Why are Madrassas always full to the brim? Hatred of the West is rampant in that part of the world and you cant say that my recent change of heart since 9/11 is the cause. As I said before, I had a live and let live attitude until then, and I firmly believe that only the Muslims can bring about the needed changes in this situation.
Its a sure bet these radicals wont listen to anything the West has to say.....

[HejiraNYC]

Nope. It's just that it's hypocritical for you to call someone "white trash" when you're making an argument for racial sensitivity. It's like the pot calling the kettle black, get it?

I also find it quite alarming that some people hold the notion that there is no such thing as descrimination against white people. Poor whites who live in under-developed, and/or poor socio-economic conditions (or who come from such a background) are indeed descriminated against and called such wonderfully socially accepted (from the climate around here anyway) names as "trailer trash," and "white trash." Some also seem to be under the impression that these groups are not oppressed. Sure they are, it's just not racial oppression, so much as it's socio-economic, and in some instances, ethnic. Why is it so hard to wrap one's brain around that? It exists, now quit back-peddling with ludicrous arguments about how white people can't be oppressed and/or descriminated against. It's just not true!

One's socioeconomic status/background is NOT the same as race! Again, back to my earlier point, "trash" is more of a state of mind/behavior than it is an artifact of ethnicity or economic status. That's just like saying that oppression against fat people is racism. Why are you trying to twist this into something that it is not?

[strandinthewind]

. . . The Mexican guys are angry at those who hold power in America (the whites), the ones who have the biggest houses and the biggest cars (the whites), and the regime that wants to criminalize them. Unfortunately you happened to be a whipping post for some of their frustration. I'm not saying it was acceptable or appropriate... only understandable. :shrug:

IMO, the failure in the premise negates that argument, though it may be true in application. For example, certainly not all white people hold power, live in larger houses than some minorities, etc. Yet, they are perceived that way as evidenced by your statement.

In the end, until people start judging others by their actions and not by what they think all "races" are like, this will never end. Add to that the perpetuation of the welfare state, which fosters hardly any incentive to be better, and the poor of all races will be perpetuated. Sad - very true.

[HejiraNYC]

Do you use that term around black people? :shocked:


Personally, I agree with you that no term is that derogatory towards whites. The worst I've been called is a "white bitch." Was I a little upset? Of course. But I can deal with 1 or 2 isolated incidents.

BUT - your last observation seems to say "well, it wasn't cool but I can see why they wanted to beat the sh*t out of you." I have a problem with this, because if that's the case it could be applied to all situations. Like, if black people robbed my house it would be understandable for me to hate all blacks & call them n*ggers? A lot of people defend their views with stuff like this - "well, this happened to me, so it's OK." And I don't think it is.



Let me clarify that any insinuation of violence is NEVER acceptable, appropriate or understandable unless you are in a position of self-defense. I don't think Sparky's original comment included the "beat the sh*t out of you" part. I was more referring to the comment the Mexican guys made about the minority of whites in the Home Depot. Again, I think what they said was idiotic and inappropriate. However, given the way Mexicans are blatantly discriminated against and looked down upon, especially in racially tense areas like SoCal, I can understand their anger at white people in general. And unfortunately Sparky just happened to be the random recipient of this invective. Accordingly, I don't necessarily agree with the radical African American movement espoused by the likes of Louis Farrakhan, etc... but I do understand why they are so angry at white people. In NYC I can understand the resentment people have for white people who swoop in to gentrify and price out formerly working class ethnic neighborhoods. Again... it's all about the power dynamic, money, politics, etc. that white people symbolize in America...

And if black people did rob and pillage your house, and you started using the "n" word when mentioning black people, I would definitely find that inappropriate and unfortunate. However, you are only human, and you went through something extremely traumatic... so I would understand why you felt this anger, even if I didn't necessarily agree with you. :shrug:

[strandinthewind]

I totally call bull***** on this. It's not all equally hateful. For example, if you were walking down the sidewalk and you accidentally bumped the shoulder of the person walking in the opposite direction, and he said loudly, "watch it, you honkey!" would you be offended? Probably not. What if he said "watch it, you b*tt-f**king f@ggot pansy a$$?" I don't know about you, but that would piss me the heck off. I would quickly think about stupid thugs like him who probably make a sport of taunting gays and who has probably beaten them up too. Gays are minorities too. And we all know that Rosie can get her boxer shorts all up in a bunch when she smells something anti-gay in the air, e.g., the whole Kelly Ripa-Clay Aiken affair. "rolleyes: :lol:

It's not all the same.

But, it is the thought process behind it. Hate is hate in my book. But, I think people have a hard time seeing past their rearing. In other words, do you really think it is less hurtful for a poor white child to be insulted for her poverty by those of any race more fortunate than she? I think not.

[strandinthewind]

Okay that really is racist and offensive. I have had friends who are Muslim and I just don't get how you can paint them all with such a broad brush. It's the same attitude, albeit reversed, that is driving them to come after us. A blind hatred.

Oh -- but she doesn't do that -- we could ask her, but she says we wouldn't like her answer and she hopes she does not have to say she told us so.

[strandinthewind]

One's socioeconomic status/background is NOT the same as race! Again, back to my earlier point, "trash" is more of a state of mind/behavior than it is an artifact of ethnicity or economic status. That's just like saying that oppression against fat people is racism. Why are you trying to twist this into something that it is not?

So, if some smart, rich black kid verbally abuses to the point of tears some poor white trash kid for being just that - that is okay. But, if the poor white trash kid fires back with "shut up you stupid fukciung ni**er" that is a no no. I am seeing a blatant double standard here.

And, to me, it is no wonder it exists because the government is constantly implying to black people that they need a helping hand for something that happened 150 or so years ago. Just imagine if all your life, you had been given things under that guise. Wouldn't you feel entitled, even if just a little bit, to preferential treatment in all areas whether you deserved it or not?

[HejiraNYC]

IMO, the failure in the premise negates that argument, though it may be true in application. For example, certainly not all white people hold power, live in larger houses than some minorities, etc. Yet, they are perceived that way as evidenced by your statement.

In the end, until people start judging others by their actions and not by what they think all "races" are like, this will never end. Add to that the perpetuation of the welfare state, which fosters hardly any incentive to be better, and the poor of all races will be perpetuated. Sad - very true.

No, everybody cannot be king. But those "kings" in America, the true movers and shakers in the worlds of money and plitics, are white. Sure, there's Oprah and the gazillion non-whites in the entertainment and sports fields. But ultimately they all answer to white heads of corporations, CEO's, etc.

Of course I agree with you that people should be judged by their actions and character only. And someday, perhaps not within our lifetimes, America will be truly colorblind. But that's not reality today, and to pretend that racial tension does not exist today is delusional.

My own parents, who are about as assimilated as Charo after 36 years in the U.S. :rolleyes: :lol:, are pretty racist themselves. They tolerate blacks, but would prefer not to be around them. They think Chinese are trash. However, for whatever reason, they have mad reverence for white people. :shrug: There definitely seems to be a message sent loud and clear around the world that whites are the super race. Accordingly, you would not believe the amount of plastic surgery that goes on, especially the procedure that "westernizes" ones eyelids to make ones eyes appear rounder and larger. This procedure is as commonplace as getting ones ears pierced. :eek:

[strandinthewind]

. . . In NYC I can understand the resentment people have for white people who swoop in to gentrify and price out formerly working class ethnic neighborhoods. Again... it's all about the power dynamic, money, politics, etc. that white people symbolize in America...

But, by your own argument, black or ethnic people sold them that land and likely at a profit. So, clearly they have come egg of their faces as well. Yet, you do not mention that. It is all the white guys' fault. then, what if non-white people buy the new product, what of them?

I know of a few neighborhoods in Harlem and north of there where this has happened. So, it is unfair to blame it all on the white people. Thus and IMO, it is socioeconomic argument as opposed to race.

[Rickypt]

I am finding it interesting, not in a negative way...just interesting, that so much of this thread is devoted to talking about how there is discrimination and racism against whites. If this board were predominately people of color, this conversation would be completely different. Just find it interesting in a sociological sort of way.

I do think there are examples of "reverse" discrimination out there, but in its totality, it is absolutely nothing like racism and discrimination against people of color in America. I might have an experience like Sparky did once or twice in my life, and maybe I'll lose out on a job opportunity because of affirmative action. But I will not spend nearly every day fighting against entrenched racism and power dynamics that work against me just because of the color of my skin. Or against entrenched sexism and power dynamics that work against me because of my gender.

Look at the Barack Obama thing. Before we can talk about if he is truly qualified to be president, we must answer the question "is America ready for a black president". Same thing with Hillary: "are we ready for a woman".

All acts of discrimination are wrong, I think we all agree on that. The question I posed in this thread is why the big outrage against Rosie's ching-chong comments. The answer is clear to me: mocking Chinese has been part of an overall experience of oppression, ridicule, and racism felt by Asian-Americans. I haven't had that experience, so I didn't get it.

[strandinthewind]

. . . My own parents, who are about as assimilated as Charo after 36 years in the U.S. :rolleyes: :lol:,

I may have to marry you for that statement - COOCHIII COOOOCCCHHIIIIIII COOOOOOOOO

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v602/strandinthewind/charorocks2004-long.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v602/strandinthewind/charocuchi-long.jpg

[strandinthewind]

I am finding it interesting, not in a negative way...just interesting, that so much of this thread is devoted to talking about how there is discrimination and racism against whites. If this board were predominately people of color, this conversation would be completely different. Just find it interesting in a sociological sort of way.

I do think there are examples of "reverse" discrimination out there, but in its totality, it is absolutely nothing like racism and discrimination against people of color in America. I might have an experience like Sparky did once or twice in my life, and maybe I'll lose out on a job opportunity because of affirmative action. But I will not spend nearly every day fighting against entrenched racism and power dynamics that work against me just because of the color of my skin. Or against entrenched sexism and power dynamics that work against me because of my gender.

Look at the Barack Obama thing. Before we can talk about if he is truly qualified to be president, we must answer the question "is America ready for a black president". Same thing with Hillary: "are we ready for a woman".

All acts of discrimination are wrong, I think we all agree on that. The question I posed in this thread is why the big outrage against Rosie's ching-chong comments. The answer is clear to me: mocking Chinese has been part of an overall experience of oppression, ridicule, and racism felt by Asian-Americans. I haven't had that experience, so I didn't get it.

I think the reason that this conversation is going the way it is is because white people are sick of losing to some minority who never did a damn thing to deserve the special treatment. As I have mentioned before, I know more than one kid who came from a wealthy family get accepted to and free money for school over a more qualified poorer white kid - and for something they never suffered for because their parents were wealthy. How in hell is that fair? The answer is it is not. So, I conclude as I always have, it is time to move on past the obviously failed policy of remedying the past and run to a new policy of helping the poor - all of them.

As for Rosie - humor must exist somewhere and IMO that is what she was doing. Imagine if no one ever made any off color joke. Kathy G. could not refer to "her gays" - the movie White Chicks would not exist - "baby got back" would not be a song - etc. That is a boring world :shrug:

[Rickypt]

O
If you're going to call someone a b*tch, just leave it at that, no need to bring their race into it.

Well, see I don't get why someone would call anyone a b*tch....why bring gender into it? I noticed that in my Nano thread, most people said that I should have called the woman a variety of names from b*tch to tw*t to c*nt. I wouldn't have done that because I was raised never to use words like that. Have things changed?

Edit: I also try to stay away from calling anyone a name, period, and prefer to call people out on their actual behavior.

[Rickypt]

To be clear: My hatred is reserved for the terrorists. :

Then you really should start being much more clear in your language. When you mean terrorists, say terrorists. Don't say "Muslims" and don't say Muslims (specifically the terrorists). Or, if you really do hate Muslims, then be honest. You've slipped it in so many times, that I do wonder.

[strandinthewind]

Well, see I don't get why someone would call anyone a b*tch....why bring gender into it? I noticed that in my Nano thread, most people said that I should have called the woman a variety of names from b*tch to tw*t to c*nt. I wouldn't have done that because I was raised never to use words like that. Have things changed?

Edit: I also try to stay away from calling anyone a name, period, and prefer to call people out on their actual behavior.

I would have called her a c*nt because that is what I thought she behaved like. Then again, I have no issues with that word, though the fact that many others do makes it even harsher to use, which would have been my point in using it in your situation.

[Rickypt]

I think the reason that this conversation is going the way it is is because white people are sick of losing to some minority who never did a damn thing to deserve the special treatment.

I don't, I think that is how you feel. I think the conversation is going the way it is because it is predominantly white people having the conversation and it is natural to speak about your own experience and to defend yourself, especially in charged discussions.

[strandinthewind]

Then you really should start being much more clear in your language. When you mean terrorists, say terrorists. Don't say "Muslims" and don't say Muslims (specifically the terrorists). Or, if you really do hate Muslims, then be honest. You've slipped it in so many times, that I do wonder.

That is exactly my point. In the beginning, she responded to the question "all Muslims" -- then, when pushed, she slightly differentiated, and now does so wholly.

I suppose we should ask her this question - "Do you dislike or distrust all Muslims?"

[Rickypt]

Oh -- but she doesn't do that -- we could ask her, but she says we wouldn't like her answer and she hopes she does not have to say she told us so.

:nod: :laugh:

...we do agree on something here.

[Rickypt]

I suppose we should ask her this question - "Do you dislike or distrust all Muslims?"

I think we should just forget about it. ;)

[strandinthewind]

I don't, I think that is how you feel. I think the conversation is going the way it is because it is predominantly white people having the conversation and it is natural to speak about your own experience and to defend yourself, especially in charged discussions.

It's not just me. Why do you think so many people vote R? I know many who could care a less about abortion, gay rights, blah blah blah -- all they see is their tax money going to help black people who they perceive as being on the public tit with no want to work their way of of it. With programs like Affirmative Action (in the examples above) -- it is hard to argue against that.

Put it this way, a friend of mine FINALLY got the state inspector to come to his Katrina destroyed house. The white inspector told him the reason it took so long was because they were specifically told to help the blacks first. When I heard this, I, like probably you, did not believe it. So, when the time came for my friend to get some public money to fix his place, the assistance was further delayed for that same reason and this time, I heard it with my own two ears.

How is that possibly fair? How could any white person not feel anything but rage about that? Wouldn't you? I can promise you that anyone treated like that is going to hate any governoment in control then - I certainly would. Then, couple that with what you see with minorities automatically getting a leg up no matter how rich or educated they are -- and I think most white people are horrified. I am.

[strandinthewind]

:nod: :laugh:

...we do agree on something here.

We actually often agree -- just not on this shiitte :D

Also - if I go to SFCA this year, which is likely, we will have to drink lots of hard liquor and discuss these topics. Perhaps I'll hire a pianist and we can sing the arguments.

[Rickypt]

We actually often agree -- just not on this shiitte :D

Also - if I go to SFCA this year, which is likely, we will have to drink lots of hard liquor and discuss these topics. Perhaps I'll hire a pianist and we can sing the arguments.

That would be awesome! :thumbsup:

Except I'm a lousy debater in person, and even worse when I'm drunk.

[strandinthewind]

That would be awesome! :thumbsup:

Except I'm a lousy debater in person, and even worse when I'm drunk.

Then, we'll have to find better uses for our mouthes :D :D

I am feeling frisky today :laugh: :eek:

[Rickypt]

Then, we'll have to find better uses for our mouthes :D :D

I am feeling frisky today :laugh: :eek:

It's San Francisco, I'm sure we can come up with something. :D

[michelle2677]

Do you use that term around black people? :shocked: If so, how do they react?

My dad is pretty racist. Which I find both sad and amusing since he is an immigrant. :p I like to point that out to him "hey dad, don't forget, you're a minority too!" He doesn't necessarily hate based on skin color, but he does judge.





well...if I'm close to them and I know it doesn't bother them. I would never say that around someone I didn't know. And believe me, I never use it in a negative manner. It's mostly in songs and the way previously mentioned.

[michelle2677]

He's been clear that being of Asian descent gives him latitude to make these kinds of jokes.

I'm still stuck on the fact that white people apparently say the N word in some kind of non-harmful way, like "N word, please". While I get it isn't being used in an intentionally harmful way, I just can't see why any white person would even want to say that word. I kind of don't get why black people use it either, but it's not my community and I don't pretend to know what they should/shouldn't do.

Well, there are a lot of words that offend me, but I'm not going to judge someone if they decide they want to use them. I guess it's just different here. It's used pretty frequently around here, so I guess that's why I feel that way. It's not something that I'm using..as you said-in a harmful way, so :shrug:

is there a difference in that..and say-a straight person saying words that would usually be considered derogatory towards gays, but because you know the person and know they don't mean anything by it..it's ok.??

[SuzeQuze]

please note:


I am speaking of the terrorists here. If you dont understand how I can hate the terrorists after 9/11 then I dont know what more to say.......what I said regarding the Moderates was that I felt they could/should do more to control the radical element in their religion. Carrie had responded by saying that we are all responsible for our own actions and that it was not fair to hold a group responsible for the actions of a few (or some). I told her I saw her point.

I will add this however: when it is common knowledge that money is consistently being funneled to these extremists to continue to wreak their havoc I have to wonder if these so-called extremists arent actually representing the secret feelings/desires of the group as a whole. If not, then why arent more moderates coming forward and denouncing this crap? Why arent the money sources being dried up? why arent more terrorist hiding places and training camps being exposed? Why are Madrassas always full to the brim? Hatred of the West is rampant in that part of the world and you cant say that my recent change of heart since 9/11 is the cause. As I said before, I had a live and let live attitude until then, and I firmly believe that only the Muslims can bring about the needed changes in this situation.
Its a sure bet these radicals wont listen to anything the West has to say.....:shrug:

I missed your parenthetical text which was important. Sorry about that!

[skcin]

To be clear: My hatred is reserved for the terrorists. I am very unhappy and deeply disappointed with the Moderates for not standing up and doing what they could to change things. And I am convinced there is much each individual could do, examples of which I outlined above.



Great. So why not say "my hatred against Muslim terrorists" or even "my hatred against terrorists...." :shrug:

[strandinthewind]

I missed your parenthetical text which was important. Sorry about that!

But, she does not really believe in that parenthical does she - as evidenced by the equivocal statement "I will add this however: when it is common knowledge that money is consistently being funneled to these extremists to continue to wreak their havoc I have to wonder if these so-called extremists arent actually representing the secret feelings/desires of the group as a whole." Therein and the fact that she initially referred to "all Muslims" lies the rub IMO.

[sparky]

Of course I agree with you that people should be judged by their actions and character only. And someday, perhaps not within our lifetimes, America will be truly colorblind. But that's not reality today, and to pretend that racial tension does not exist today is delusional.


I believe this will never happen. Things will get better, but it will always be an issue.

But, to the original issue in this thread, I have been educated. I never thought about the idea that people think it's okay to give grief to those of Asian decent. There were about 5 Asian kids in my grade school, and maybe 12 in my high school. Almost all were top of the class academically, and many were also excellent at sports and other activities. They were popular too.

Now, last year of high school, things changed. For whatever reason, there was a large group of Laotions that came outta nowhere. People didn't like them. They couldn't speak English, dressed funny, and a lot of them had terrible skin. Lots of name calling, they moved in packs, and the pinnacle was a race fight in the cafeteria. The 5 or 6 black kids inschool picked on them relentlessly, so the Laotions pretty much formed a gang for protection. One of them stabbed a black kid in the stomach at lunch one day.

So, I saw some of the race problems up close and personal. I am not sure if the whole thing happened because of their race. I think it was more of an issue of them simply being different. They could have been Aboriginal. And the unfortunate thing is, the people perceived as being on the lower rungs want to stomp on the next lowest to make themselves feel better.

[SuzeQuze]

But, she does not really believe in that parenthical does she - as evidenced by the equivocal statement "I will add this however: when it is common knowledge that money is consistently being funneled to these extremists to continue to wreak their havoc I have to wonder if these so-called extremists arent actually representing the secret feelings/desires of the group as a whole." Therein and the fact that she initially referred to "all Muslims" lies the rub IMO.

I think this is what I am picking up on. I am also bullsh*t at moderate Muslims for their lack of backbone however I can see why they wouldn't stand up for fear of being blown up.

[Rickypt]

Well, there are a lot of words that offend me, but I'm not going to judge someone if they decide they want to use them. I guess it's just different here. It's used pretty frequently around here, so I guess that's why I feel that way. It's not something that I'm using..as you said-in a harmful way, so :shrug:


I didn't mean to come across as so judging. I was just truly surprised. You're right, it's a geographical difference. The word is so completely unacceptable here that I don't think any white person could get away with saying it, no matter what the intentions. Not saying it's better here or that we are right, it's just different.

[SuzeQuze]

It's San Francisco, I'm sure we can come up with something. :D

:laugh: You'll be like, "What was I juss sayin'? Oh fughet it! Less juss git busy." :lol:

[michelle2677]

I didn't mean to come across as so judging. I was just truly surprised. You're right, it's a geographical difference. The word is so completely unacceptable here that I don't think any white person could get away with saying it, no matter what the intentions. Not saying it's better here or that we are right, it's just different.

oh..ok :xoxo: :xoxo: and I didn't mean to sound bitchy if that's the way it came across.

sounds like you need to move!!! :D:nod:

[Rickypt]

sounds like you need to move!!! :D:nod:

Never. :D

However, San Francisco is a complete joke when it comes to racial issues. We pretend to be progressive because we would never say the n word, etc., but we are a disaster when it comes to things that really matter. For example, there is only one elected African-American male in the entire city (including board of supervisors, school board, college board, democratic central committee, etc.)

[DavidMn]

Never. :D

However, San Francisco is a complete joke when it comes to racial issues. We pretend to be progressive because we would never say the n word, etc., but we are a disaster when it comes to things that really matter. For example, there is only one elected African-American male in the entire city (including board of supervisors, school board, college board, democratic central committee, etc.)Thats interesting. Didnt know that.

[irishgrl]

But, she does not really believe in that parenthical does she - as evidenced by the equivocal statement "I will add this however: when it is common knowledge that money is consistently being funneled to these extremists to continue to wreak their havoc I have to wonder if these so-called extremists arent actually representing the secret feelings/desires of the group as a whole." Therein and the fact that she initially referred to "all Muslims" lies the rub IMO.
and once again, you are reading into it what you choose to. Ive said who I hate and Ive said who I am disappointed in. two different groups. I asked a hypothetical question, and as such, dont see how that proves anything.

[strandinthewind]

and once again, you are reading into it what you choose to. Ive said who I hate and Ive said who I am disappointed in. two different groups. I asked a hypothetical question, and as such, dont see how that proves anything.

Apparently, I am not the only one getting mixed signals, which are furthered by you reluctance to answer a question, which by the way is most def. not a hypothetical one as it asks how you feel, not how would you feel.

On edit - I suppose we should ask her this question - "Do you dislike or distrust all Muslims?"

That hardly is hypothetical :shrug: And - if you answer you do not, who really would blame you in the end because pretty much Muslims are the ones doing the killing through terroristic acts. I get that not all of them do it and that it is unfair to put the actions of relatively few on a whole group. But, the fact remains that I know of very few if any who do not get a little heightened when they see a group of Muslims getting on their plane. I hate that it is like that, but it is.

[irishgrl]

so your question now is how do I feel about Muslims?

Again, I am disappointed in the moderates for not standing up against the crap the terrorists do. They could make life very very difficult (if not impossible) for the terrorists by exposing their hideouts, refusing to send their young folks to the cause, teaching their young people that the West is not their enemy, Closing down the Madrassas, insisting on democratic government, and rights for women and on and on. Proportionally, the moderates outnumber the radicals, which is even more disappointing to me to think that such a small number can keep their cooler-headed bretheren in a constant state of fear. If their religion teaches PEACE, then they should help bring about PEACE.

so, I am in fact going by your statement:
In the end...people [should] start judging others by their actions

I may have made a generalization to begin with but I clarified for you in the hopes you would see the distinction. apparently you need to be spoon fed.

by the way, it was always my understanding that "racism" referred to a discrimination against a person's RACE. Not their RELIGION. I dont care for the Christian fundies either, so now what?

also, if you will READ my statement, I said "I have to WONDER...." so, obviously I was thinking out loud. you are smarter than that Jason arent you?

[strandinthewind]

^^^

So, that babble indicates you dislike and/or distrust most if not all Muslims because they do not do enough to stop a very small fraction of their society.

Fair enough.

I just wanted the screaming liberal to say it - that's all :wavey: :wavey:

Interesting, seeing as how black youth does the same thing every day and it could be argued that black moderates do not do enough to stop it a la the avenues you suggested for Muslims, I guess you apply that same logic to the black community - in fact, all communities.

What was that again about not liking your answer . . . .

On edit -- "I have to wonder" -- you are actually hiding behind that :laugh: :rolleyes:

MARY THE LIBERAL IS A RACIST

MARY THE LIBERAL IS A RACIST

MARY THE LIBERAL IS A RACIST

MARY THE LIBERAL IS A RACIST

:wavey:

[irishgrl]

^^^

So, that babble indicates you dislike and/or distrust most if not all Muslims because they do not do enough to stop a very small fraction of their society.

Fair enough.

I just wanted the screaming liberal to say it - that's all :wavey: :wavey:

Interesting, seeing as how black youth does the same thing every day and it could be argued that black moderates do not do enough to stop it a la the avenues you suggested for Muslims, I guess you apply that same logic to the black community - in fact, all communities.

What was that again about not liking your answer . . . .

On edit -- "I have to wonder" -- you are actually hiding behind that :laugh: :rolleyes:

MARY THE LIBERAL IS A RACIST

MARY THE LIBERAL IS A RACIST

MARY THE LIBERAL IS A RACIST

MARY THE LIBERAL IS A RACIST

:wavey:
Again you are putting words in my mouth, what I SAID was I was DISAPPOINTED that the moderates arent doing more to control their unruly members! How many ways to I have to say it? I didnt use the words "dislike" or "distrust" anywhere. I have admitted, too, that this is the one area I am not automatically Liberal about, so why you are gloating is beyond me :shrug:

as for applying that logic to other communities, I havent thought about it really but frankly I cant see a problem with that premise? I think it is the duty of society in general to control its unruly members. Parents are expected to do that with their children, and we DO have laws for cripes sake!!
And as I ALSO said: only the MUSLIMS can change the minds of other Muslims. They sure as hell arent going to listen to a Jew or a Christian!

Again, prior to 9/11, I always had a live and let live attitude............If I wasnt so sure that we were heading toward a "Muslim vs. Christian" type apocalypse (which is what I meant when I said "I hope I never have to say 'I told you so'"), I'd be more than happy to have that attitude again.

ps: racism is discrimination based on race. I am talking more along religious paradigms. not the same thing technically speaking.

EDIT: re: "I have to wonder..." there's nothing to hide behind. I DO wonder. And, I wouldnt be at all surprised if it were the truth.

[michelle2677]

It's different though because no one ever locked up your ancestors for their lack of intelligence or oral hygiene.
that post was in direct response to the original post of this thread. The "ching chong" comment. I know this thread has gotten pretty heated, and I am absolutely against locking any innocent person up just because of the color of their skin. I am also against slavery and all other heinous things that have been mentioned in this thread. But saying "ching chong" is not even remotely close to being in a category with those events. So yeah, I think I can say with a clear conscious someone calling me an "inbred, hillbilly, redneck, idiot who married my cousin" just because I am from kentucky-right up there with a "ching chong" comment. And I'm not meaning that snarky at all. :xoxo: But I wasn't comparing the prejudices against Kentuckians (or where someone is from) to locking someone up, or concentration camps etc. :) :)

and I get how some people take offense to the comment because of things that happened in their life. Ha. I guess everyone I grew up with was Kentuckian, so they couldn't make fun of me for that!! :lol: But even now it doesn't bother me. Even I joke about it sometimes. :shrug: But I'm pretty hard to offend ;)

[irishgrl]

that post was in direct response to the original post of this thread. The "ching chong" comment. I know this thread has gotten pretty heated, and I am absolutely against locking any innocent person up just because of the color of their skin. I am also against slavery and all other heinous things that have been mentioned in this thread. But saying "ching chong" is not even remotely close to being in a category with those events. So yeah, I think I can say with a clear conscious someone calling me an "inbred, hillbilly, redneck, idiot who married my cousin" just because I am from kentucky-right up there with a "ching chong" comment. And I'm not meaning that snarky at all. :xoxo: But I wasn't comparing the prejudices against Kentuckians (or where someone is from) to locking someone up, or concentration camps etc. :) :)

and I get how some people take offense to the comment because of things that happened in their life. Ha. I guess everyone I grew up with was Kentuckian, so they couldn't make fun of me for that!! :lol: But even now it doesn't bother me. Even I joke about it sometimes. :shrug: But I'm pretty hard to offend ;)
More Kentuckians should be like yew! seriously :nod: I think you're a laff riot!

[michelle2677]

More Kentuckians should be like yew! seriously :nod: I think you're a laff riot!
what do you mean?? You sayin' kentuckians are stupid and not funny?? huh???!!!!







:lol: ;)

[irishgrl]

what do you mean?? You sayin' kentuckians are stupid and not funny?? huh???!!!!







:lol: ;)
Gad. I take it back :p

[carrie721]

blah blah blah i'm not a hillbilly blah blah blah

hey, you inbred hooker! did you go into the dental field so you could get your dentures at a discount? :shrug:

:woohoo:

[HomerMcvie]

hey, you inbred hooker! did you go into the dental field so you could get your dentures at a discount? :shrug:

:woohoo:

A freakin' +.

***** Five Stars.

Excellent work!!!!:lol:

[carrie721]

A freakin' +.

***** Five Stars.

Excellent work!!!!:lol:

she's been asking for it. :D

[BTFLCHLD]

I use "n*gga" all the time. (which oddly enough I think is different than "N*gger".) But it is only used like you said "n*gga please" ....but I use cracka and honkey too..so...:shrug:

I'd break this like a bad habit... (if I were you ;) )

[carrie721]

I'd break this like a bad habit... (if I were you ;) )

i think she knows her audience. :shrug: i use it too, only in jest, and only with people i know will understand that i only mean it humorously - i mean, i am the whitest white girl. it's ridiculous that i would talk like a homeboy. to me, that is the joke, and anyone who hears me say it knows i mean it in that light.

[michelle2677]

:lol: I just want to say you can all kiss my white, inbred, denture wearing hillbilly a$$. Oh and carrie- i'll save the "best" part for you :nod:

[irishgrl]

:lol: I just want to say you can all kiss my white, inbred, denture wearing hillbilly a$$. Oh and carrie- i'll save the "best" part for you :nod:
the part with the MOLE on it? the mole with the HAIR?????

[carrie721]

:lol: I just want to say you can all kiss my white, inbred, denture wearing hillbilly a$$. Oh and carrie- i'll save the "best" part for you :nod:

the part christened by bop? :wavey:

[michelle2677]

the part with the MOLE on it? the mole with the HAIR?????
:lol: i dont have either but if i knew she were coming down i'd slap one on there faster than you can say "dentures"

[carrie721]

:lol: i dont have either but if i knew she were coming down i'd slap one on there faster than you can say "dentures"

hey - i was in kentucky TWICE last week! twice! i don't know why bop calls you quickdraw. :shrug:

[michelle2677]

the part christened by bop? :wavey:
well. teeeechnically it was christened way before bop knew how to bop :lol: i'm kidding. I've never done that :angel:

[carrie721]

well. teeeechnically it was christened way before bop knew how to bop :lol: i'm kidding. I've never done that :angel:

you know what they say ... butt sex is wild but it don't cause a child! :woohoo:

[michelle2677]

you know what they say ... butt sex is wild but it don't cause a child! :woohoo:
oh. My. God. :laugh: that is all.

[carrie721]

oh. My. God. :laugh: that is all.

heeheeheehee.

why isn't bop in your sig????????

[michelle2677]

heeheeheehee.

why isn't bop in your sig????????
i like how after 5 minutes of us joining a 30 page heated debate we are talking about a$$ sex :lol: and i will put him back. Promise :xoxo: this just has special meaning for the time being. I'm a poet and didn't know it :lol: the poet in your heart, baby :laugh:

[strandinthewind]

Lord Child - the lunatics have taken over the asylum :eek: :laugh:

[irishgrl]

its funner that way :woohoo: carry on my wayward sons! :blob1: :blob2:

[Rickypt]

Lord Child - the lunatics have taken over the asylum :eek: :laugh:

It's time for that to happen to this thread.

[mikeschmike]

you know what they say ... butt sex is wild but it don't cause a child! :woohoo:

that should be a bumper sticker.


















on my car. :thumbsup:

[michelle2677]

that should be a bumper sticker.


















on my car. :thumbsup:
*putting mike's christmas present in the mail* :cool:

[irishgrl]

and you havent fixed your siggy yet missy!

[elie]

May I add - as a reply to the initial post- that I find the Chinese request for apology somewhat too far-fetched. I don't know who Rosie is, but it was obviously a -pretty lame- joke. It seems to me that people tend to find any excuse to feel offended for the sake of political correctness and it is really annoying.
On another note, I find it somehow "naive" and humorless to be offended by jokes based on stereotypes or making fun of people's accent and such (I don't say those jokes are clever, but you have to be even less clever to take offense). Greek people are usually portrayed in horrific ways in all sorts of american or northern european films (usually they are sly, a bit dirty, with silly moustaches that nobody has nowadays after all, and they talk funny). I never heard of any greeks taking action publicly and making fuss because of that! Let alone demanding a public apology!!

Finally, just a small note to say that I agree with Strand on the discrimination thing against whites. There are not many black people where I live, but I am very familiar with reverse-discrimination.

And p.s. Mary, the word racism might derive from the word "race", however it is used in reference to any sort of discrimination, be it religious, sexism or whatever. I 'm just saying..

[irishgrl]

May I add - as a reply to the initial post- that I find the Chinese request for apology somewhat too far-fetched. I don't know who Rosie is, but it was obviously a -pretty lame- joke. It seems to me that people tend to find any excuse to feel offended for the sake of political correctness and it is really annoying.
On another note, I find it somehow "naive" and humorless to be offended by jokes based on stereotypes or making fun of people's accent and such (I don't say those jokes are clever, but you have to be even less clever to take offense). Greek people are usually portrayed in horrific ways in all sorts of american or northern european films (usually they are sly, a bit dirty, with silly moustaches that nobody has nowadays after all, and they talk funny). I never heard of any greeks taking action publicly and making fuss because of that! Let alone demanding a public apology!!

Finally, just a small note to say that I agree with Strand on the discrimination thing against whites. There are not many black people where I live, but I am very familiar with reverse-discrimination.

And p.s. Mary, the word racism might derive from the word "race", however it is used in reference to any sort of discrimination, be it religious, sexism or whatever. I 'm just saying..
And p.s. Mary, the word racism might derive from the word "race", however it is used in reference to any sort of discrimination, be it religious, sexism or whatever. I 'm just saying..
Reply With Quote
actually elie, you are confusing "racism" with discrimination in general. racism is not sexism is not ageism etc., all of which are forms of discrimination.

Religions encompass many races, and thus "racism" is inaccurate when you speak of a person's religion. .

Now, one COULD make the point that I discriminate......however, I have also been clear that I hate fundies in ALL religions, so in THAT sense, I am being quite Democratic by including them all!! Nice try tho...

now can we get back to the funny stuff please?

[elie]

^ I don't really think I am confusing something here. I jsut said, it derives from the word race, but when used, even in formal language, its meaning includes any sort of discrimination. It might be a not so correct usage of the actual word, but this is how it is used. I am sorry I interfered, but it seemed to me that you were stuck on a technicality. And no, your argument about hating all fundies doesn't exactly prove that you don't hate all Muslims. I'm not saying you do (!), however it is a very far fetched argument that doesn't prove your point per se. It means exactly what it is supposed to mean: that you hate all fundies. I don't see how that implies directly that you hate only muslims that are fundies. Unless I am missing something here (which actually might very well be the case, since it is difficult to communicate 100% in a language other than you own when it comes to serious mattes like this one).

[strandinthewind]

Interestingly (emphasis supplied)

Main Entry: race

Function: noun
Etymology: Middle French, generation, from Old Italian razza

1 : a breeding stock of animals

2 a : a family, tribe, people, or nation belonging to the same stock b : a class or kind of people unified by shared interests, habits, or characteristics <the English race>

3 a : an actually or potentially interbreeding group within a species; also : a taxonomic category (as a subspecies) representing such a group b : BREED c : a category of humankind that shares certain distinctive physical traits

4 obsolete : inherited temperament or disposition

5 : distinctive flavor, taste, or strength

http://www.merriamwebster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary
______________________________________________

Then (emphasis supplied)

Main Entry: rac·ism

Pronunciation: 'rA-"si-z&m also -"shi-
Function: noun

1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race

2 : racial prejudice or discrimination

- rac·ist /-sist also -shist/ noun or adjective

http://www.merriamwebster.com/dictionary/racism

________________________________________________________

So, the use of racism to describe discrimmination against the Muslim race as defined in bold above appears to be correct :shrug:

C.f.

Racism is commonly defined as a belief or doctrine where inherent biological differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, with a corollary that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.

The term racism is sometimes used to refer to preference for one's own ethnic group (ethnocentrism), fear of foreigners (xenophobia), views or preferences against interbreeding of the races (miscegenation), and/or a generalization of a specific group of people (stereotype); regardless of any explicit belief in superiority or inferiority embedded within such views or preferences. Racism has been used in attempts to justify social discrimination, racial segregation and violence, including genocide. Politicians are known to practice race-baiting in an effort to win constituents.

The term racist, when used to describe someone who supports racism, has been a pejorative term since at least the 1940s, and the identification of a group or person as racist is nearly always controversial

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism

[irishgrl]

Interestingly (emphasis supplied)

Main Entry: race

Function: noun
Etymology: Middle French, generation, from Old Italian razza

1 : a breeding stock of animals

2 a : a family, tribe, people, or nation belonging to the same stock b : a class or kind of people unified by shared interests, habits, or characteristics <the English race>

3 a : an actually or potentially interbreeding group within a species; also : a taxonomic category (as a subspecies) representing such a group b : BREED c : a category of humankind that shares certain distinctive physical traits

4 obsolete : inherited temperament or disposition

5 : distinctive flavor, taste, or strength

http://www.merriamwebster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary
______________________________________________

Then (emphasis supplied)

Main Entry: rac·ism

Pronunciation: 'rA-"si-z&m also -"shi-
Function: noun

1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race

2 : racial prejudice or discrimination

- rac·ist /-sist also -shist/ noun or adjective

http://www.merriamwebster.com/dictionary/racism

________________________________________________________

So, the use of racism to describe discrimmination against the Muslim race as defined in bold above appears to be correct :shrug:

C.f.

Racism is commonly defined as a belief or doctrine where inherent biological differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, with a corollary that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.

The term racism is sometimes used to refer to preference for one's own ethnic group (ethnocentrism), fear of foreigners (xenophobia), views or preferences against interbreeding of the races (miscegenation), and/or a generalization of a specific group of people (stereotype); regardless of any explicit belief in superiority or inferiority embedded within such views or preferences. Racism has been used in attempts to justify social discrimination, racial segregation and violence, including genocide. Politicians are known to practice race-baiting in an effort to win constituents.

The term racist, when used to describe someone who supports racism, has been a pejorative term since at least the 1940s, and the identification of a group or person as racist is nearly always controversial

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism
no, because Muslims encompass many different RACES. you conveniently overlooked the main point which is that it is about RACE!!! You can have African Muslims, Arab Muslims, White Muslims, Indonesian Muslims etc. Muslims are believers in Islam. They encompass many races
thus, again, Jason, you are wrong. I am beginning to think I represent Bill Clinton for you! I've often thought that even if you might agree with me, you will still represent the polar opposite opinion just because you enjoy needling me!

elie: common usage isnt necessarily correct usage. The word MEANS discrimination based on RACE. The technicality is important, and people should be aware.

[elie]

elie: common usage isnt necessarily correct usage. The word MEANS discrimination based on RACE. The technicality is important.

No. It just derives from the word "race". What it means, is a different story. I think that Strand's post explains that better. If you don't mind, re- read the passage he posted from Wikipedia.
Anyway, I 'm not trying to attack you or pick a fight. We have a different understanding of the subject (on the whole), so let's leave it at that.

[strandinthewind]

no, because Muslims encompass many different RACES. you conveniently overlooked the main point which is that it is about RACE!!! You can have African Muslims, Arab Muslims, White Muslims, Indonesian Muslims etc. Muslims are believers in Islam. They encompass many races
thus, again, Jason, you are wrong. I am beginning to think I represent Bill Clinton for you! I've often thought that even if you might agree with me, you will still represent the polar opposite opinion just because you enjoy needling me!

elie: common usage isnt necessarily correct usage. The word MEANS discrimination based on RACE. The technicality is important, and people should be aware.


Can you read?

Again:

2 a : a family, tribe, people, or nation belonging to the same stock b : a class or kind of people unified by shared interests, habits, or characteristics

It seems to me that a shared faith is ecompassed by "a class or kind of people unified by shared interests, habits, or characteristics" -- but you just cannot ever see anything that is obvious can ya.

[Rickypt]

since it is difficult to communicate 100% in a language other than you own when it comes to serious mattes like this one).

What is your first language, elie?

[SuzeQuze]

that post was in direct response to the original post of this thread. The "ching chong" comment. I know this thread has gotten pretty heated, and I am absolutely against locking any innocent person up just because of the color of their skin. I am also against slavery and all other heinous things that have been mentioned in this thread. But saying "ching chong" is not even remotely close to being in a category with those events. So yeah, I think I can say with a clear conscious someone calling me an "inbred, hillbilly, redneck, idiot who married my cousin" just because I am from kentucky-right up there with a "ching chong" comment. And I'm not meaning that snarky at all. :xoxo: But I wasn't comparing the prejudices against Kentuckians (or where someone is from) to locking someone up, or concentration camps etc. :) :)

and I get how some people take offense to the comment because of things that happened in their life. Ha. I guess everyone I grew up with was Kentuckian, so they couldn't make fun of me for that!! :lol: But even now it doesn't bother me. Even I joke about it sometimes. :shrug: But I'm pretty hard to offend ;)

I'm hard to offend too. I didn't think there was anything wrong with what you said. I just wanted to make a point that people who've been persecuted because of their race are more sensitive to "jokes" and with good reason. And you do NOT fit the Kentuckian stereotype you hottie with a great smile. :lol: :xoxo:

[GardenStateGirlie]

i absolutely detest rosie but is anyone watching right now? the opening segment was pretty hysterical -- she just raked trump through the coals.

[skcin]

So Mary's a prejudiced bigot, not a racist. Got it.

[irishgrl]

of COURSE I can read. I read the part where the FIRST definition said pertaining to RACE. the part you highlighted was an attempt to explain further, and does not in fact negate that you can have a RELIGION represented by many different RACES. As I said.

Apple? Orange. Apple? Orange. There is no "race" called "Muslim" there is, however a "religion" or a belief system called "Muslim" "Jew" means anyone who believes in the Jewish FAITH. That can be a Hebrew, a German, a Spaniard, an American. You can have an Arab Christian! You can have a Chinese Christian! and on and on.

[irishgrl]

So Mary's a prejudiced bigot, not a racist. Got it.



well, if hating fundies and terrorists makes me a bigot, so be it. Im sure as hell not ashamed of it :shrug:

Paula, my dear, if I didnt know better, I'd swear you were trying to BAIT me.

[strandinthewind]

So Mary's a prejudiced bigot, not a racist. Got it.

Ding Ding Ding

I LOVE watching her crawfish on it as well.

"Crawfish" is a Cajun term that means when attacked, you back into your mudhole like a crawfish and defend yourself by any means no matter how incorrect, absurd, illogical, irrational, etc.

[irishgrl]

Ding Ding Ding

I LOVE watching her crawfish on it as well.

"Crawfish" is a Cajun term that means when attacked, you back into your mudhole like a crawfish and defend yourself by any means no matter how incorrect, absurd, illogical, irrational, etc.
except I didnt do that. nice try tho. I dont mind you calling me a bigot or prejudiced when I say I hate fundies (of all religions) or terrorists. Big deal.

but I will insist on accuracy with respect to terminology, because it IS important

[DrummerDeanna]

well, if hating fundies and terrorists makes me a bigot, so be it. Im sure as hell not ashamed of it :shrug:

Hey! I guess I'm a bigot too in that case :wavey:

:xoxo:

[irishgrl]

Glad you've arrived safe and sound girlie, hope you have a good time with your family :nod:

[michelle2677]

I'm hard to offend too. I didn't think there was anything wrong with what you said. I just wanted to make a point that people who've been persecuted because of their race are more sensitive to "jokes" and with good reason. And you do NOT fit the Kentuckian stereotype you hottie with a great smile. :lol: :xoxo:

:D :D
o.k..I was just making sure. And when I posted that, I was thinking.."oh god..I hope she doesn't get mad!!" :o

aww gee thanks!! :angel: I actually have indoor plumbing and I own a few pair of shoes too!!! :thumbsup:

[strandinthewind]

:D :D
o.k..I was just making sure. And when I posted that, I was thinking.."oh god..I hope she doesn't get mad!!" :o

aww gee thanks!! :angel: I actually have indoor plumbing and I own a few pair of shoes too!!! :thumbsup:

But are your feet clean and do they stay that way?

[HomerMcvie]

But are your feet clean and do they stay that way?
'Cept when she's a pickin' her teeth.





:lol: :lol: :lol:

[michelle2677]

But are your feet clean and do they stay that way?

omg. one day I was at work and my boss, I guess, smelled my perfume and said "you smell good" I said.."I took my monthly shower this morning" .
so they are clean today, but I can't promise anything regarding tomorrow :laugh:

'Cept when she's a pickin' her teeth.





:lol: :lol: :lol:


I hate you.








:lol: :laugh:

[irishgrl]

ahhhhhhh you changed your siggy :D

[carrie721]

blahblahblah i'm not a hillbilly

omg, your sig! "just call me inspiration" ... i'm dying!!

[HomerMcvie]

But are your feet clean and do they stay that way?
Or countin' the relatives she's had sex with......:thumbsup:

[michelle2677]

omg, your sig! "just call me inspiration" ... i'm dying!!

it took me all night to think of that!!!! :laugh: :laugh:

actually it rolled up on my ipod yesterday (I don't think I've EVER even listened to that song) and it just fit...hee hee...


Or countin' the relatives she's had sex with......:thumbsup:

hey now. There's no need to bring your family into this also!! And I guess that would make US related??? :shocked:


":thumbsup: " :p

[mikeschmike]

what's with all the hillbilly hatin'?

bop left michelle's signature, she has to hear about sh*t eating kids, and is in constant competition with jazmen flowers for "best ledgie eyebrows". hasn't she suffered enough?!?!?

[carrie721]

it took me all night to think of that!!!! :laugh: :laugh:

actually it rolled up on my ipod yesterday (I don't think I've EVER even listened to that song) and it just fit...hee hee...

aw, you gave me a new name. how sweet! :cool:

that song is one of the most saccharine things stevie has ever shat out. and i love it.

[michelle2677]

what's with all the hillbilly hatin'?

bop left michelle's signature, she has to hear about sh*t eating kids, and is in constant competition with jazmen flowers for "best ledgie eyebrows". hasn't she suffered enough?!?!?

thank you!!! I'm glad SOMEONE loves me around here. of course you're just saying that to get in my pants..:lol: :lol:




oh...and my eyebrows are best!!! :lol:


aw, you gave me a new name. how sweet! :cool:

that song is one of the most saccharine things stevie has ever shat out. and i love it.

it wasn't "new" :laugh:

I know. for some reason I found myself singing it and not knowing why. Much like the entire "Bop" conversations. You just don't know why...

[strandinthewind]

Or countin' the relatives she's had sex with......:thumbsup:

She said daddy said she's the best :eek:

(for the weak at heart, that is paraphrase from National Lampoon's "Vacation" )

[carrie721]

thank you!!! I'm glad SOMEONE loves me around here. of course you're just saying that to get in my pants..:lol: :lol:

um, only if he wants to put you in new, more "fabulous" ones. :shrug: :laugh:

it wasn't "new" :laugh:

hooker. :mad:

I know. for some reason I found myself singing it and not knowing why. Much like the entire "Bop" conversations. You just don't know why...

it's because it's only bop who wants to wrap around our dreams ...

[HomerMcvie]

hey now. There's no need to bring your family into this also!! And I guess that would make US related??? :shocked:


":thumbsup: " :pBelieve me, it wouldn't surprise me if we were!

[HomerMcvie]

She said daddy said she's the best :eek:

(for the weak at heart, that is paraphrase from National Lampoon's "Vacation" )

Do you know how you can find a virgin girl in KY?









She's the one who can out run her brothers!:D

[michelle2677]

um, only if he wants to put you in new, more "fabulous" ones. :shrug: :laugh:

even better!!!! :laugh:







hooker. :mad:


N*gga please


:laugh: :lol: :laugh: :lol:



it's because it's only bop who wants to wrap around our dreams ...

I know. He did that already..:nod:

[michelle2677]

Believe me, it wouldn't surprise me if we were!

it would me. I am WAY more fabulous than you!!! :cool:



:laugh: ;)

[carrie721]

N*gga please


:laugh: :lol: :laugh: :lol:

there is it! :lol:

I know. He did that already..:nod:

is that how you got that social disease? :sorry:

[strandinthewind]

Do you know how you can find a virgin girl in KY?









She's the one who can out run her brothers!:D

:laugh:

How's a Kentuckian tell the difference between a bull and a cow in the dark?

He sticks his nose in the animal's ass. If there's a place for his tongue, it's a cow. :D :D

[HomerMcvie]

it would me. I am WAY more fabulous than you!!! :cool:



:laugh: ;)

Says all the men in your family.

[strandinthewind]

Oh ONE more:

Did you hear about the Kentuckian who passed away and left his entire estate in trust for his beloved widow?

She can't touch it till she's fourteen.

[strandinthewind]

there is it! :lol: . . . .

Go ahead be goin' :D

[HomerMcvie]

:laugh:

How's a Kentuckian tell the difference between a bull and a cow in the dark?

He sticks his nose in the animal's ass. If there's a place for his tongue, it's a cow. :D :D

:lol: :lol:Oh my god I like that one!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

[strandinthewind]

Leave it to me to filth the place up :] :]

[carrie721]

Go ahead be goin' :D

say wha? :confused:

how do you circumcise a hillbilly?







kick his sister (or michelle) in the teeth!

[michelle2677]

there is it! :lol:



is that how you got that social disease? :sorry:

LMAO @ g-unit!!!

no...that was from homie's cousin...:nod:


Says all the men in your family.

you're just jealous I'm getting laid more than you!:shrug: :laugh:

[strandinthewind]

[QUOTE=carrie721;617054]say wha? :confused: . . . . [\QUOTE]

From "Sexback"

[mikeschmike]

um, only if he wants to put you in new, more "fabulous" ones. :shrug: :laugh:


and just WHAT is wrong with fab pants?

[michelle2677]

say wha? :confused:

how do you circumcise a hillbilly?







kick his sister (or michelle) in the teeth!

I would just like to say for the record that the three people that are making fun of me are from 1. Ohio 2. Georgia and 3. Indiana. That's not too far away, people. Two of them are border states!!! :lol: