Stevie: Sell-out or good businesswoman?

[Stevie_Buck]

We've often heard it mentioned by Lindsey that he was/is always trying to branch out and go against the mainstream when it came to his music (take the 2-Disc SYW argument) no matter what it will cost him. This, supposedly, was the driving force behind all of his solo efforts. So, in that regard, with such quotes from Stevie as "I pray to the commercial gods" and her doing "what's best for her band", would you label her as a sell-out to the industry (straying from her "art" and looking towards finances and risks) or simply a good businesswoman?

Just wondering what you guys thought. :shrug:

[strandinthewind]

I think LB likes to portray himself as the artist who cares not for love of money - but I think he does. I mean look at the recent interview in Boston where he says he wished his solo stuff reached more people - and he said this in the context of playing to way fewer people than the Mac does. I also think he likes living a very righ lifestyle and I do not begrudge him that one bit. Is he a smart business man - not really, though I am sure his manager sees to it that he is.

As for La Nicks, she, too, loves the money. I also think she sees her records as a way to reach people and that she makes money off of them is mostly ancillary to that driving need - though and again, she likes the money. I also think she sees the need to be successful as, inter alia, a means to that end. In other words, more records = more people reached and a deal to do another one.

So, yes, I'd say she a great artist and a smarter than average business woman.

[Kelly]

Nah, I don't think Stevie is a sell out. I think she is pretty smart actually and sees the big picture. Lindsey does not want to make "commerical" music but wants the benefits of being commerically successful.

[Rickypt]

I think if Stevie were a sell-out, she would have done more than one solo album in the last 12 years.

[BlackWidow]

Stevie is all business..no push over there.

[BlackWidow]

I think if Stevie were a sell-out, she would have done more than one solo album in the last 12 years.

That is more about fear.

[strandinthewind]

That is more about fear.

Well, that and The Dance, Enchanted, and SYW :shrug: I mean those three took up like five years and then TISL took up like two. Then, for the last two years, she has been touring. So, its not like she is stagnant.

Actually, if she were really money hungry, she's get FM back together becuase they sell concerts better than she does at the sheds.

[SpyNote]

I think she sells out to some degree when she records other people's songs, which are clearly inferior to her own. On the flip side of that, she has also always been a generous person who's willing to help out her peers, no matter how bad the song actually is.

[golddustwoman77]

I think that Stevie is being intellegent. You have to give the people what they want. All bands want their album to be successful. You don't release something that you think is going to fail. If they are smart, they will give it the best shot with the buying public. Also, you don't want to totally sell your band's style and beliefs to the industry devil. Having said that, I don't believe at all that the Mac has done that. They have remained true to their musical ideals and are still trying unique things as well...look at SYW.

[Johnny Stew]

In my opinion, she's a saavy business-woman who has figured out how to get her art to as many people as possible.
She knows that her lyrics are often vague and esoteric and that her voice is highly unusual, but she makes those things work for her by choosing producers who craft her songs in an ear-friendly style, filled with hooks, harmonies and all the necessary bells and whistles.

I think, of anyone in Fleetwood Mac, she's the one who best walks that fine line between art and commerce. Instead of constantly railing against the system and then scratching her head as to why she didn't succeed, she makes the system work FOR her. She gives The Powers That Be a "Say You Will" so she can also record an "Illume."

Of course she's had some missteps along the way, but, overall, she has a terrific batting average.

[DavidMn]

I say to each their own.:)

[BTFLCHLD]

Actually, if she were really money hungry, she's get FM back together becuase they sell concerts better than she does at the sheds. WOW I had no idea she was in charge of that!!! :eek:

[strandinthewind]

WOW I had no idea she was in charge of that!!! :eek:

Of course she is not, but I think she could make it happen. I mean LB seems still up for it and seems to have paid the burden on her in recent interviews when he goes on about healing, winding up in a good place, etc. :rolleyes:

[sparky]

I don't know that she is a sell out per se. But the touring is all about the money. They don't make money on the records anymore. All the money is on the road. Plus, she can play to half the people when she is solo. The staff is the same size but she doesn't have to split the profits 4 ways. Oh, and pay for everyone elses entourage to be on tour. Only her own posse, which comes along on mac tours as well.

[BTFLCHLD]

Of course she is not, but I think she could make it happen. I mean LB seems still up for it and seems to have paid the burden on her in recent interviews when he goes on about healing, winding up in a good place, etc. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: yathink? I believe it will be a mutual decision among the bandmates. As to sway, I think they are all equally capable of that in their own special way. How do you suppose Stevie would go about making that happen? And, Lindsey's journey generally includes healing...he spoke of that during SYW.

[desertangel]

Her solo career might have been a lot worse had she not conceeded to many who produced her songs. Sorry, but I'm not a big fan of her demos so I'm happy she realizes they need work and that she allows people to "change" her songs so much, even if it does aggravate her. I think in that respect she's smart.

[strandinthewind]

^^^^

I agree, but I still LOVE her piano demos from the 70's :nod:

I also think she can be over produced. I think the paino demo of Love Is is far superior to the CD cut, on which to me her voice sounds like a computer and it has too many overdubs. So, I think that while she is an artist who cannot play any instrument or produce very well and, therefore, wisely hires those considered to be very talented, that is a crap shoot that can explode in her face.

In the end, I think she is best when her songs are mostly straight forward and without gimmicks. Her fist two solo records are good examples of what I mean. More current examples are Its Only Love, the Love Is demo, etc.

Then again, the song TISL is tricked up and it works great for me.

My $0.02

[ELIUD]

I think she's an absolutely terrible business person. She's a great rock star and will go down in history as one of the best and most charasmatic ever, but she has very little know-how in marketing herself. Like Strand said she does love money and if she wanted to generate more, she's missing so many opportunities. For example, now is the time to release her book and not spare the ugly details (sex sells). Yes I know Stevie is too good to hurt people's feelings and likes to retain her mystery yadda yadda yadda, but this is a discussion about whether she's a good business woman and not whether she should be canonized. Also she could have gone the route of so many celebs and released a perfume, a clothing line, a jewelry line, the whole shabang. She'll never do that. She also has a sexy ass speaking voice and could have been doing commercial voice-overs FOR YEARS, making money very discretely hand over foot. For God's sake she won't even get a tourbook out on time to sell at her concerts! Don't tell me - it's "her people" who won't do that for her. She's the decider! She could do a country album or an album of covertunes but she won't. And what better time to celebrate Stevie than Halloween - but who's got the big benefit party every year with all the celebrities showing up in all the costumes- Bette Midler! She knows how to rake in the cash! Sorry people. You are confusing business savy with basic rock star dos and don'ts.

[JazmenFlowers]

I think she's an absolutely terrible business person.
I kiiiinda agree with what you're saying. I do think that Stevie became a rock star before all the things you mentioned really became the norm and I think she's been sheltered so much or really is unaware that she doesn't really relate herself to being "one of those celebs" that could/should do that. that's just a half-ass guess.

I do love your point about voice overs though. :nod:

[strandinthewind]

. . . She's the decider! . . . .

Just like W :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

and - touche' on your points, though I think she would have lost much of the mystery that surrounds her if she had had too much exposure in too many areas.

[Johnny Stew]

I think she's an absolutely terrible business person. For example, now is the time to release her book and not spare the ugly details (sex sells). Also she could have gone the route of so many celebs and released a perfume, a clothing line, a jewelry line, the whole shabang.
Sorry people. You are confusing business savy with basic rock star dos and don'ts.I have to respectfully disagree, as I believe part of her business-savvy is knowing not to oversaturate the market until people are utterly sick of hearing about you... which is exactly what would happen if she had her name on a clothing line, a jewelry line, perfume, etc., etc.

While I'd love more MUSIC-related releases, I'm happy that Stevie hasn't whored her name out to various non-music-related products like Britney, J-Lo and so many others have.

[sparky]

I do think that Stevie became a rock star before all the things you mentioned really became the norm and I think she's been sheltered so much or really is unaware that she doesn't really relate herself to being "one of those celebs" that could/should do that.

I agree with Eliud almost 100%. You don't give Stevie enough credit for
being a capable and conscious human being. I mean, she's a friggin TV addict -she knows what's going on with the world and what other people do with their careers. It's not like she lives in a shoe with with no electricity.:laugh:

She has done some great stuff for select charities and is very generous with her time. But as far as the marketing and bigger business angles - it's a truckload of missed opportunities. All of that stuff can be done in a graceful way. J-ho and Brintey and their tacky shit are not the only way to do it.

[JazmenFlowers]

I agree with Eliud almost 100%. You don't give Stevie enough credit for
being a capable and conscious human being. I mean, she's a friggin TV addict -she knows what's going on with the world and what other people do with their careers. It's not like she lives in a shoe with with no electricity.:laugh:

She has done some great stuff for select charities and is very generous with her time. But as far as the marketing and bigger business angles - it's a truckload of missed opportunities. All of that stuff can be done in a graceful way. J-ho and Brintey and their tacky shit are not the only way to do it.
this is true. I have been read.

:laugh:

[Johnny Stew]

She has done some great stuff for select charities and is very generous with her time. But as far as the marketing and bigger business angles - it's a truckload of missed opportunities. All of that stuff can be done in a graceful way. J-ho and Brintey and their tacky shit are not the only way to do it.I don't know, it just always seems crass to me. Though maybe something like Cher's Sanctuary line might be interesting... but that might be more chiffon and shawls than any human could stand. ;)

[JazmenFlowers]

but that might be more chiffon and shawls than any human could stand. ;)
bring it on. I'd be in heaven. :D

[Johnny Stew]

bring it on. I'd be in heaven. :DOk, I should have said... "more chiffon and shawls than any human other than Jazzy could stand!" ;) :laugh:

[JazmenFlowers]

Ok, I should have said... "more chiffon and shawls than any human other than Jazzy could stand!" ;) :laugh:
that's better. :laugh:

[Johnny Stew]

that's better. :laugh:Well, I have to stay on your good side. ;) :laugh:

[sparky]

I don't know, it just always seems crass to me. Though maybe something like Cher's Sanctuary line might be interesting... but that might be more chiffon and shawls than any human could stand. ;)

I'm not even really talking about product endorsement. The very tip of the iceberg would be the paltry low quality merch. Then there are all the "projects" that have been mentioned over the years. It doesn't have to be perfume and crappy leg warmers. There are so many different classy things that could be done. How about a Taschen book of all the really great photos over the years? The HWW, Preston, and Diltz photos alone could make a 200 page coffee book. You hire an editor and art director, get an attorney for clearances and then proof the damned product when it's done. It ain't brain surgery. Alas, I shouldn't waste my breath. This is just another verse in a song I have been singing to death for years. It's my own f*cking worn out Rhiannon.:laugh:

[Ghost_Tracker]

We've often heard it mentioned by Lindsey that he was/is always trying to branch out and go against the mainstream when it came to his music (take the 2-Disc SYW argument) no matter what it will cost him. This, supposedly, was the driving force behind all of his solo efforts. So, in that regard, with such quotes from Stevie as "I pray to the commercial gods" and her doing "what's best for her band", would you label her as a sell-out to the industry (straying from her "art" and looking towards finances and risks) or simply a good businesswoman?

Just wondering what you guys thought. :shrug:



Personally, I think she was just stroking the guy's ego in a sarcastic, fun way; and expressing loyalty to her band. Like they said in "Top Gun," You NEVER NEVER leave your WING man!" Something a survivor like Stevie understands intuitively, i.m.o. She at least tries to be loyal to Fleetwood Mac first and foremost, because that's her "bread and butter" and maybe because that's simply how she feels.

[desertangel]

I do love your point about voice overs though. :nod:


OMG... so do I! That thought never crossed my mind, but it's BRILLIANT. STEEEEVVVIIEEEE... are you listening? hehe..

Of course WE would love her to do perfumes and clothing too, but maybe she doesn't want to possibly be looked at by some as being in the same category as J.Lo and Paris Hilton. As for writing the book... I'm sure she could do SOMETHING that wouldn't necessarily ruin reputations or whatever. If she's not ready to retire, a tell all would be a bad idea because she depends on these people.

Bottom line is, yes... she could be doing a LOT more. But doesn't it say something that she isn't? I don't think she has the energy and/or the interest. Whenever her bank account gets low, she'll go do some gigs, a tour, whatever, to keep her in the lifestyle she's used to. In that respect, she's a smart businesswoman, but as for building an empire, no. She doesn't strike me as the type who's interested in an empire... even if she is the Queen of Rock. :)