My Anti-Stevie Customer

[foxyluva]

I just had to share this with you all :woohoo:

today I was working (I work in a music store for those of you who don't know) and I had just finished playing "Bella Donna" and sold it, so I thought I would try and sell "Wild Heart" and about halfway through "Nightbird" this customer comes IN with what looks like her mother and wants to listen to Mudvayne "LD 50" so I try and put it on the listening posts for but it isn't working, so while I was trying to fix it I heard her remark to her mother "Doesn't this music drive you crazy?" and the mother said "God yes!" :mad:

I thought to myself "Just ignore them" so I told them I couldn't get the player to work, so I told them and they were cool about it, but the mother said to me "Does this music drive you insane?" and I said "No way! this is one of my favourite singers!" and both of them looked at me like I was crazy, and they both said "Oh. Im sorry." in a condisending tone :mad:

So I said "Whats wrong with it" and the younger one said "Its crap" and that was just the last straw (nobody calls Stevie crap in my presence!) so I went off on this Stevie ramage - totally cussing this girl out with Stevie/FM knowledge & how influential they are and what the hell had Mudvayne ever done for the betterment of music :lol: By the end of it, she just said - "Don't worry about the CD" and left with her mother in tow :p


The moral of the story is:
"Don't mess with Stevie or I will verbally destroy you."

[danax6]

I hear ya, good for you. :wavey:

I managed to get a hell of a lot of people (re)interested in Fleetwood Mac or Stevie this way, but there are few hard headed ones...those I usually send to the rap/trance section of the music dvd's. They can listen to utter crap for the rest of their lives for all I care, they're not worth it. ;)

[BlackWidow]

I just had to share this with you all :woohoo:

today I was working (I work in a music store for those of you who don't know) and I had just finished playing "Bella Donna" and sold it, so I thought I would try and sell "Wild Heart" and about halfway through "Nightbird" this customer comes IN with what looks like her mother and wants to listen to Mudvayne "LD 50" so I try and put it on the listening posts for but it isn't working, so while I was trying to fix it I heard her remark to her mother "Doesn't this music drive you crazy?" and the mother said "God yes!" :mad:

I thought to myself "Just ignore them" so I told them I couldn't get the player to work, so I told them and they were cool about it, but the mother said to me "Does this music drive you insane?" and I said "No way! this is one of my favourite singers!" and both of them looked at me like I was crazy, and they both said "Oh. Im sorry." in a condisending tone :mad:

So I said "Whats wrong with it" and the younger one said "Its crap" and that was just the last straw (nobody calls Stevie crap in my presence!) so I went off on this Stevie ramage - totally cussing this girl out with Stevie/FM knowledge & how influential they are and what the hell had Mudvayne ever done for the betterment of music :lol: By the end of it, she just said - "Don't worry about the CD" and left with her mother in tow :p


The moral of the story is:
"Don't mess with Stevie or I will verbally destroy you."
Don't get fired over Stevie! She is not everyone's cup of tea...

[foxyluva]

Don't get fired over Stevie! She is not everyone's cup of tea...

I wont get fired - They need me :lol:

[paleshadow]

I don't understand how people can get bent out of shape when people don't enjoy the same artists as them, and then call other music crap. Isn't that a little hypocritical? I mean, I love Chinese food, but I don't get pissy when someone tells me they think it's gross, and I don't feel the need to lecture them about it either. Life is too short to get upset about such little things. Besides, if everyone liked the same things wouldn't the world be a little boring?

[foxyluva]

I don't understand how people can get bent out of shape when people don't enjoy the same artists as them, and then call other music crap. Isn't that a little hypocritical? I mean, I love Chinese food, but I don't get pissy when someone tells me they think it's gross, and I don't feel the need to lecture them about it either. Life is too short to get upset about such little things. Besides, if everyone liked the same things wouldn't the world be a little boring?

Yes, but Stevie is npt chinese food. And I totally understand how people don't like Stevie - My own parents can't stand her. But it was the condisending nature of this person that was extremely offensive - I love Stevie, and you don't have to love her, and you can say so - but they were offensive while they were doing it.

[paleshadow]

Yes, but Stevie is npt chinese food. And I totally understand how people don't like Stevie - My own parents can't stand her. But it was the condisending nature of this person that was extremely offensive - I love Stevie, and you don't have to love her, and you can say so - but they were offensive while they were doing it.

Maybe, but they had no way of knowing you love Stevie. They were just making innocent conversation. I can see if they knew you liked her and then called it crap. It didn't really read as offensive though. Though I'm curious, offensive to who, you or Stevie? If anything it just seems like they were a little bit assuming. Maybe in the same way people who love Stevie think everyone does?

[foxyluva]

Maybe, but they had no way of knowing you love Stevie. They were just making innocent conversation. I can see if they knew you liked her and then called it crap. It didn't really read as offensive though. Though I'm curious, offensive to who, you or Stevie? If anything it just seems like they were a little bit assuming. Maybe in the same way people who love Stevie think everyone does?

I specifically said to them that Stevie is one of my favourite singers - and I ignored them to begin with, but they were really rude, and laughed at me for liking Stevie, and I was offended for myself. Wouldn't you be offended if somebody really laughed at you for liking somebody?

It wasn't friendly laughter, their faces said it all - like "I pity you for liking her"

I was geuinely offended - and I don't offend easily.

[KateTheCursed]

I specifically said to them that Stevie is one of my favourite singers - and I ignored them to begin with, but they were really rude, and laughed at me for liking Stevie, and I was offended for myself. Wouldn't you be offended if somebody really laughed at you for liking somebody?

It wasn't friendly laughter, their faces said it all - like "I pity you for liking her"

I was geuinely offended - and I don't offend easily.

I don't get the vim and vigor with which you defended yourself, but then I'm a pretty laid back in that regard. I totally get where you're coming from though in terms of being offended. After you told them she was one of your favorite singers, they said sorry. However the tone of voice wasn't one that was "oops, I've accidentally stuck my foot in my mouth and unwittingly offended someone." Instead it was a tone of condescension that conveyed more the idea of "Oh sorry you don't have better taste."

[foxyluva]

I don't get the vim and vigor with which you defended yourself, but then I'm a pretty laid back in that regard. I totally get where you're coming from though in terms of being offended. After you told them she was one of your favorite singers, they said sorry. However the tone of voice wasn't one that was "oops, I've accidentally stuck my foot in my mouth and unwittingly offended someone." Instead it was a tone of condescension that conveyed more the idea of "Oh sorry you don't have better taste."

Yes, maybe I didn't make myself clear - the "sorry" was "Im sorry you like this person, how horrible for you."

[AliceLover]

Yes, maybe I didn't make myself clear - the "sorry" was "Im sorry you like this person, how horrible for you."

LOL :laugh: I thought that was an awesome story!

Believe me, where I work i always get cranky people. Sometimes you just get fed up!

[foxyluva]

LOL :laugh: I thought that was an awesome story!

Believe me, where I work i always get cranky people. Sometimes you just get fed up!

Thank you :xoxo:

I couldn't believe the arrigance of this person - trust me, anybody would have done the same thing - these two were asking for it!

[paleshadow]

I specifically said to them that Stevie is one of my favourite singers - and I ignored them to begin with, but they were really rude, and laughed at me for liking Stevie, and I was offended for myself. Wouldn't you be offended if somebody really laughed at you for liking somebody?

It wasn't friendly laughter, their faces said it all - like "I pity you for liking her"

I was geuinely offended - and I don't offend easily.

Well, in your original post you said that you didn't mention you liked Stevie until they asked you "Doesn't this music drive you insane"? I think at that point you were already annoyed with their conversation to each other about not liking the music. You also left out the laughter part. No, I wouldn't get offeneded by any of that. I would get offended if they said "You suck for liking this crap", but not for saying "The music you listen to is crap". I know how picky I am when it comes to music. Half the stuff out there these days I can't stomach, so I can completely relate so someone not likeing what I listen to. If I got upset over stuff like that I would probably never be able to handle the more substantial things that rear their ugly heads now and then. I'd probably be on blood pressure medication.

[Johnny Stew]

People, people, people... don't get all worked up and bitch someone out for not liking Stevie.

Simply find out which car they drive, and cut the brake-line.


-- Don Stewleone

[SuzeQuze]

People, people, people... don't get all worked up and bitch someone out for not liking Stevie.

Simply find out which car they drive, and cut the brake-line.


-- Don Stewleone

:lol: Guffaw. Snort. Those people were very rude, foxluvya, so good for you for givin' them some learnin'! :lol:

[Miss Vicky]

I don't so much have problems with people laughing at me because of my musical taste (hell, I usually am the one to start poking fun at it first) but I have had problems with older people flat out telling me that I'm wrong about something. They're reasoning for why I must be wrong? They were alive when it happened, therefore they must be right. Shoddy memory be damned.

I once had a former coworker insist that Carnie Wilson (this was back when she had just had her surgery) was Dennis Wilson's daughter and that Brian Wilson was the one that died. (and of course, she was alive back in the sixties and I wasn't therefore she's right and I'm wrong). :shocked:

And, thankfully, this didn't happen to me but to a friend of mine... and thankfully for the customer I wasn't standing at the register when it happened but...

At my old job (selling party supplies) they played Muzak cds that had a variety of mostly older pop songs, and several of those discs had "Magnet and Steel." So this customer walks up to the register while the song is playing, and she's singing along to it. So, my friend (in an attempt to make friendly conversation) asks her if she's a Walter Egan fan and then makes some comment about how great Lindsey and Stevie sound on that song. The woman gets all pissy and tells my friend that she's wrong and that Christine is the one singing the backing vocals and that she would know because she was around back then and she has the record at home to prove that it's Christine. So my friend said something to the effect of "Good, go look at your damn record so you can feel like an idiot because you're wrong."

Moral of the story: Some people are just stupid and ignorant and rude. Preaching to them won't help. Yelling at them won't help.

Oh, and if they already think that you're crazy for liking a particular artist and are laughing at you because of it, bombarding them with facts about said artist is likely to only make them laugh at you more.

[paleshadow]

Oh, and if they already think that you're crazy for liking a particular artist and are laughing at you because of it, bombarding them with facts about said artist is likely to only make them laugh at you more.

That's what I was thinking. Now they are probably at home talking to their internet friends explaining how not only do they think Stevie Nicks music is crap, but her fans are a bit obsessive. ;)

[vermicious knid]

http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/189/mudvayne10am.gif
This is a picture of Mudvayne. They look like such wholesome, nice young men. Just the type of musical group a mother and daughter can enjoy together.

I would not trust those two with their judgements of who is "crap" and who is not.

[amber]

People, people, people... don't get all worked up and bitch someone out for not liking Stevie.

Simply find out which car they drive, and cut the brake-line.


-- Don Stewleone


:lol: :lol: :lol:

But seriously, I think I would just have to be quiet and walk away really fast if a severe Stevie diss came up, because I would get really mad. I'd probably be able to say one thing, like "oh, she's actually very accomplished - and you probably only know her hits, she has many other good songs, and she's an incredible live performer." After that, I'd probably be mad.

Okay, that's what I'd want to say. :rolleyes:

But believe me, I've had to listen to Stevie diss before. I've never, ever, known anyone else who liked her/them.

[foxyluva]

But believe me, I've had to listen to Stevie diss before. I've never, ever, known anyone else who liked her/them.

I know many people who don't care for Stevie - but these people were so rude, and I had to say something. I mean, they actually made me feel bad for liking Stevie :distress:

[paleshadow]

http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/189/mudvayne10am.gif
This is a picture of Mudvayne. They look like such wholesome, nice young men. Just the type of musical group a mother and daughter can enjoy together.

I would not trust those two with their judgements of who is "crap" and who is not.

It's subjective and it shouldn't matter, especially when you go to a store that sells music. I'm just not picking up on them being these rude awful people. Just a couple of people who have a different opinion about Stevie and inadvertantly expressed it in front of a Stevie fan. Perhaps the tone of the sorry was one of embarrasment and not mocking? Perception is a funny thing, and once someone makes you angry or offended it seems like whatever they say carries a negative aspect to it, whether it is intended that way or not. For the mother and daughters perspective they probably think Fox was rude. They went to a place that sells music to buy what they like and got a lecture about how great someone they don't like is. Just like Amber said, I hardly know anyone who is a fan of Stevie. I've heard the goat impersinations a million times. Those things just don't bother me. I don't listen to music to make other people happy so why would they? As my mother used to say "That's the way the cookie crumbles".

[JazmenFlowers]

screw em. you make us proud foxyluva.

[ragandbone]

In the record stores I used to work in I would have gotten nasty comments and raised eyebrows for playing Fleetwood Mac, and especially Stevie Nicks, so I feel sorry that you had to withstand derision from customers, but I am really glad for you that your management gives you some autonomy. It sounds like you have been moving some Stevie Nicks records out the door, and I am sure they appreciate that!

Now I tried to embed this amazing video of music clerks at Other Music, but embedding didn't seem to work, so please click on the link, and enjoy!

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6424258467693494613&q=plug+awards&pl=true

[Ghost_Tracker]

Uhmmm - NIGHTBIRD??? :shocked:

[wondergirl9847]

Please tell me the name of that record shop...so I can avoid it. :shocked:

LOL Yikes.

I've been laughed at and made fun of my whole life pretty much for liking certain singers and celebs. Who cares what other people say. Yes, it hurts, but it's not that serious and we all know we have great taste in music. :)

[DavidMn]

WHen I used to work at this gas station, Iplayed Fleetwood Mac and Stevie all the time on my boombox I had there. There was this one lady that ABSOLUTELY HATED Stevie, and would let me know every time she came in. Finally one day she said "This is the last time I'm coming into this store if I hear that BITCH:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: again. I looked at her and said she is my favorite singer, and as far as I can tell when I'm working I can play whatever the **** I want. If you dont like it get the **** out. Then I said "On Second thought, get out of here anyway and dont ever come back. Understand.?" Never saw her again.:)

[DavidMn]

Don't get fired over Stevie! She is not everyone's cup of tea...Well, I dont care if someone doesnt like the same stuff I do, but that woman crossed the line when she said shew couldnt understand why anyone would listen instead of just saying she didnt like her. I felt it was a personal attack on me and Stevie, and I responded accordingly.

[amber]

In the record stores I used to work in I would have gotten nasty comments and raised eyebrows for playing Fleetwood Mac, and especially Stevie Nicks, so I feel sorry that you had to withstand derision from customers, but I am really glad for you that your management gives you some autonomy. It sounds like you have been moving some Stevie Nicks records out the door, and I am sure they appreciate that


Fully.

A weird thing happened to me once when I went to sell my first copy of TUSK. I was at...I can't remember if it was Amoeba or the other music store on Telegraph. Rasputin...yeah I was at Rasputin.

Edit - that video is hilarious!!!!!
Anyway, this guy was at the buying counter, and I was showing him my cd's, and he held up TUSK and said "This is my favorite album". And I did a double take (he was a youngish guy, maybe mid-late 20's at the time) and said "You mean your favorite FM record?" and he said "No, my favorite of everything. It's my favorite record of all."

:shocked:
:woohoo:

At that point I'd not yet heard one person ever say they liked them. And he had that superior music store guy vibe going, too. :laugh:
I was happy.

Edit - that video is hilarious!!! :laugh: :laugh:
Until the last shot...

[JazmenFlowers]

Well, I dont care if someone doesnt like the same stuff I do, but that woman crossed the line when she said shew couldnt understand why anyone would listen instead of just saying she didnt like her. I felt it was a personal attack on me and Stevie, and I responded accordingly.
lol.

there are few things I will go down to the death over. family, friends and Stevie. 'nuff said.

[ragandbone]

Fully.

A weird thing happened to me once when I went to sell my first copy of TUSK. I was at...I can't remember if it was Amoeba or the other music store on Telegraph. Rasputin...yeah I was at Rasputin.
Anyway, this guy was at the buying counter, and I was showing him my cd's, and he held up TUSK and said "This is my favorite album". And I did a double take (he was a youngish guy, maybe mid-late 20's at the time) and said "You mean your favorite FM record?" and he said "No, my favorite of everything. It's my favorite record of all."
At that point I'd not yet heard one person ever say they liked them. And he had that superior music store guy vibe going, too. :laugh:
I was happy.
.

One of the owners of Amoeba used to manage Streetlight, in the City, down the street from Aquarius, where I worked. I think Tusk is now one of the albums even hipsters will officially allow themselves to like.

[DavidMn]

lol.

there are few things I will go down to the death over. family, friends and Stevie. 'nuff said.I look at it this way Jason, if people dont like Stevie, Oh well their loss...:cool:

[ragandbone]

Please tell me the name of that record shop...so I can avoid it. :shocked:

LOL Yikes.

I've been laughed at and made fun of my whole life pretty much for liking certain singers and celebs. Who cares what other people say. Yes, it hurts, but it's not that serious and we all know we have great taste in music. :)

I worked at a record store in San Francisco, called Aquarius and before that I worked for a corporate chain called Music Plus, down in LA. A lot of the attitude was a feature of the time in which I worked in those stores. The Music Plus gig was in the late 80's LA, and so there might have been tolerance for Stevie Nicks from the management, but probably not my coworkers, who were listening to the Cure. The Aquarius job was late 80's early 90's San Francsico, and the store had specialized in local punk(a few years earlier) new music, experimental, etc. For instance some of these artists were popular items to play, Daniel Johnston, Jane's Addiction, Nick Cave, Rova Saxaphone quartet, Tall Dwarves, maybe the Red Hot Chili Peppers and Liz Phair. I am having trouble remembering the displays, but I think you ge the idea. the climate wasn't right for Stevie Nicks, or Fleetwood Mac. And now it is. Yay!

[foxyluva]

WHen I used to work at this gas station, Iplayed Fleetwood Mac and Stevie all the time on my boombox I had there. There was this one lady that ABSOLUTELY HATED Stevie, and would let me know every time she came in. Finally one day she said "This is the last time I'm coming into this store if I hear that BITCH:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: again. I looked at her and said she is my favorite singer, and as far as I can tell when I'm working I can play whatever the **** I want. If you dont like it get the **** out. Then I said "On Second thought, get out of here anyway and dont ever come back. Understand.?" Never saw her again.:)


:laugh: Come on people - you are telling me that I was too overprotective - have you read that!

And for the last time I will say in my defence that she was really rude about it (and I am generally thick-skinned). There is a certain line to cross and she crossed it. I have never been like that to anybody in years of fanship. I geuinely felt like an idiot for listening to SN for a split second...

And it wasn't like I started randomly shooting every FM/SN fact out to her, I just told her how Rumours is one of the biggest selling records of all time, and how influential SN has been to alot of todays female artists (I went into more detail) - but THAT WAS ALL

You guys are making me feel like a obsessive fan :lol:

[JazmenFlowers]

:laugh: Come on people - you are telling me that I was too overprotective - have you read that!
not me. you rock as far as I'm concerned. I've done it before and will do it again...

[JazmenFlowers]

I look at it this way Jason, if people dont like Stevie, Oh well their loss...:cool:
very true.

[foxyluva]

not me. you rock as far as I'm concerned. I've done it before and will do it again...

Thank You Jazz :xoxo:

I did not realise I was going to get such a negative response, its nice to hear that Im not alone in feeling protective of Stevie...

[ragandbone]

:laugh: Come on people - you are telling me that I was too overprotective - have you read that!
You guys are making me feel like a obsessive fan :lol:
No, I would never intend that, as I have snapped at many a customer, especially when I waited tables.

[jannieC]

I've been listening to people rag Stevie for 25 years. That's why I'm so obsessed with The Ledge- I now know people who acually LIKE her. Seriously though, I wouldn't get into it with anyone at work over it, but with friends I would.

I used to work for this girl who was SUCH a pain in the ass. She knew how I felt about Stevie and was dogging her out in the cafeteria one day. She was really into Ace of Base though, so I just chalked it to to the source, you know?

[foxyluva]

I've been listening to people rag Stevie for 25 years. That's why I'm so obsessed with The Ledge- I now know people who acually LIKE her. Seriously though, I wouldn't get into it with anyone at work over it, but with friends I would.

I used to work for this girl who was SUCH a pain in the ass. She knew how I felt about Stevie and was dogging her out in the cafeteria one day. She was really into Ace of Base though, so I just chalked it to to the source, you know?

I LOVE Ace of Base *goes to find "Happy Nation"*

[Sahara]

I think that was a really, really cool story. Fight the good fight! Yarr! :thumbsup:

[DavidMn]

:laugh: Come on people - you are telling me that I was too overprotective - have you read that!

And for the last time I will say in my defence that she was really rude about it (and I am generally thick-skinned). There is a certain line to cross and she crossed it. I have never been like that to anybody in years of fanship. I geuinely felt like an idiot for listening to SN for a split second...

And it wasn't like I started randomly shooting every FM/SN fact out to her, I just told her how Rumours is one of the biggest selling records of all time, and how influential SN has been to alot of todays female artists (I went into more detail) - but THAT WAS ALL

You guys are making me feel like a obsessive fan :lol:OH I dont blame you at all. Like I said, I dont really care if someone doesnt like the same things I do, but when they instead of just saying they dont care for the artist, they cross the line by attacking her and me and calling her names, UH-UH.

[cliffdweller]

I'm just not picking up on them being these rude awful people.

Rude, yes. Awful? Jury's still out.

It was rude of them to be shitty (and they were shitty, go back and read foxyluva's description of the incident) after being told that the person in front of them, helping them no less, is a fan of the music being played. Actually, maybe people should just keep their mouths shut sometimes, because you never know who you might offend unnecesarily. For instance, if I was in a record store, I probably wouldn't shit all over the music being played to a person who worked there because guess what? That person might be the one who played the music and well, that would just be shitty wouldn't it? I don't like to hurt people's feelings, it sounds like these people couldn't care less about that and that's what's so blood-boiling about this whole thing to me.

That said, I'm used to people telling me I'm crazy for loving the Mac/Stevie, so it doesn't really bother me so much anymore, actually, I expect it and if someone says that they like them/her too (rare) then I'm surprised! My best friend thinks Stevie and The Mac are just people her parent's used to listen to, so therefore, they are ancient and insignificant. I suppose her heart is not large enough to let an eclectic group of genres/artists/styles into it, so that is her loss. She's the one missing out on all this great stuff.

And as Janet said, I'm just glad I found The Ledge so I can gush about F.M. with people who GET IT!

[Sahara]

I'm just glad I found The Ledge so I can gush about F.M. with people who GET IT!

Definitely. I think it's increased my interest and fandom, for sure.

[DavidMn]

Rude, yes. Awful? Jury's still out.

It was rude of them to be shitty (and they were shitty, go back and read foxyluva's description of the incident) after being told that the person in front of them, helping them no less, is a fan of the music being played. Actually, maybe people should just keep their mouths shut sometimes, because you never know who you might offend unnecesarily. For instance, if I was in a record store, I probably wouldn't shit all over the music being played to a person who worked there because guess what? That person might be the one who played the music and well, that would just be shitty wouldn't it? I don't like to hurt people's feelings, it sounds like these people couldn't care less about that and that's what's so blood-boiling about this whole thing to me.

That said, I'm used to people telling me I'm crazy for loving the Mac/Stevie, so it doesn't really bother me so much anymore, actually, I expect it and if someone says that they like them/her too (rare) then I'm surprised! My best friend thinks Stevie and The Mac are just people her parent's used to listen to, so therefore, they are ancient and insignificant. I suppose her heart is not large enough to let an eclectic group of genres/artists/styles into it, so that is her loss. She's the one missing out on all this great stuff.

And as Janet said, I'm just glad I found The Ledge so I can gush about F.M. with people who GET IT!Right on!!:cool:

[paleshadow]

Rude, yes. Awful? Jury's still out.

It was rude of them to be shitty (and they were shitty, go back and read foxyluva's description of the incident) after being told that the person in front of them, helping them no less, is a fan of the music being played. Actually, maybe people should just keep their mouths shut sometimes, because you never know who you might offend unnecesarily. For instance, if I was in a record store, I probably wouldn't shit all over the music being played to a person who worked there because guess what? That person might be the one who played the music and well, that would just be shitty wouldn't it? I don't like to hurt people's feelings, it sounds like these people couldn't care less about that and that's what's so blood-boiling about this whole thing to me.

That said, I'm used to people telling me I'm crazy for loving the Mac/Stevie, so it doesn't really bother me so much anymore, actually, I expect it and if someone says that they like them/her too (rare) then I'm surprised! My best friend thinks Stevie and The Mac are just people her parent's used to listen to, so therefore, they are ancient and insignificant. I suppose her heart is not large enough to let an eclectic group of genres/artists/styles into it, so that is her loss. She's the one missing out on all this great stuff.

And as Janet said, I'm just glad I found The Ledge so I can gush about F.M. with people who GET IT!


After he told them he liked her they said "Sorry". Fox said it was in a snide way, but as I said in a later post that once you have heard something that you may take offensively(the mother and daughter talking to each other about how they thought the music was crap) it affects how everything else is heard afterwards. Saying "Sorry" is definately not rude. My suggestion is that maybe Fox interpreted it that way because he/she (sorry, I don't know Fox's gender) was already annoyed. In a LATER post after I suggested that maybe Fox reacted a little too much it was added that they also laughed after the appology. Sometimes that happens too, when the desired reaction isn't acheived in the retelling of an incident, the happenings of the incedent grow each time it's retold making the cenario worse with each retelling. Again, everyone's perception is different, as is how they react to situations.
I don't think it would be shitty to go to a record store and say make negative comments about the music that was playing to someone I'm with. Why is my conversation anyone elses business? Furthermore, it's a record store and it's not the customers responsibility to reserve judgement of a paticular type of music, but it should be the employees responsability to put their personal opinions of what is good and what isn't aside (while at work, or unless specifically asked) in order to be professional and because they are selling to a wide range of musical tastes. Now, if they went into a record store that only sold Stevie Nicks music and talked trash, that would be different.
If Fox was a huge Lindsey Lohan fan and posted the same story in chit chat that the mother and daughter said she was crap, I think people would feel differently, but because this is a Stevie Nicks forum people are not as impartial.

[foxyluva]

"Sorry" is definately not rude.

They said "sorry" about my taste in music - not for dogging on Stevie.

We all have heard your opinion and know you would have acted differently - just let it go :shrug:

[paleshadow]

They said "sorry" about my taste in music - not for dogging on Stevie.

We all have heard your opinion and know you would have acted differently - just let it go :shrug:

I was replying to someone else, not just randomly repeating myself. Please don't tell me what to do.

[cliffdweller]

I don't think it would be shitty to go to a record store and say make negative comments about the music that was playing to someone I'm with. Why is my conversation anyone elses business? Furthermore, it's a record store and it's not the customers responsibility to reserve judgement of a paticular type of music, but it should be the employees responsability to put their personal opinions of what is good and what isn't aside (while at work, or unless specifically asked) in order to be professional and because they are selling to a wide range of musical tastes.


But of course!

I'm just talking about being aware of yourself, if you're (not you personally!) enough of a bigmouth to shit-talk the music being played within earshot of the employees then I guess you run the risk of offending the person that played it and/or hurting their feelings. It's just that simple. Of course you (again not you personally) have the right to say whatever you want to whomever you want, in any situation you want, but that doesn't make what you say alright just on that principal alone. You can't just say, well, I have the right to say anything I want and damn the consequences! I guess if one can be shitty and have a clear conscience then onward with it, but that doesn't erase the shittiness of it, ya know? It's just that people tend not to think before they speak, actually, people tend not to think at all and so the cycle of shittiness just keeps going and going and going and going....

If someone say, posted a thread on the The Ledge gushing about a band they liked and I happened to hate that band, should I speak up and talk about how much I hate that band and question how anyone could possibly like them, and go on about how they SUCK? Would that be okay? Of course I'm well within "my rights" to do so given the 1st ammendment and all, but am I not responsible for the consequences of that action? Is it really "right" for me to do so, and couldn't I just spare the feelings of the person that started the thread by not posting my shitty comments? It's one thing to just say, "I don't like that" or, "it's not my cup of tea" when discussing music,etc. you don't like with people, it's another thing to be condescending and rude, with the only intent being to disparage someone's tastes while elevating your own as if to say, "I'm better than you, or, I have better taste in____" than you do, so sucks to you! I don't like it, and I would bet that you don't either. Anyway, that's how I see foxy's story as having played out, those customer's were trying to be rude and obnoxious by shitting on his/her music tastes and I think that's just plain mean! I won't have it dammit, I won't have it! :laugh: :laugh:

[paleshadow]

If someone say, posted a thread on the The Ledge gushing about a band they liked and I happened to hate that band, should I speak up and talk about how much I hate that band and question how anyone could possibly like them, and go on about how they SUCK? Would that be okay? Of course I'm well within "my rights" to do so given the 1st ammendment and all, but am I not responsible for the consequences of that action? Is it really "right" for me to do so, and couldn't I just spare the feelings of the person that started the thread by not posting my shitty comments? It's one thing to just say, "I don't like that" or, "it's not my cup of tea" when discussing music,etc. you don't like with people, it's another thing to be condescending and rude, with the only intent being to disparage someone's tastes while elevating your own as if to say, "I'm better than you, or, I have better taste in____" than you do, so sucks to you! I don't like it, and I would bet that you don't either. Anyway, that's how I see foxy's story as having played out, those customer's were trying to be rude and obnoxious by shitting on his/her music tastes and I think that's just plain mean! I won't have it dammit, I won't have it! :laugh: :laugh:
Hi. Well, I'm glad you brought that up. Many threads have knocked other artists here. Say for example I was a Lindsey Lohan fan, and I came here because I wanted to talk about Lindsey covering "Edge of Seventeen" and then saw all the nasty things people were saying about not only the song, but about her personally? Wouldn't that be hurtful? Sure, the cenario is different because this is a Stevie Nicks forum, and not a Lindsey Lohan one, as a record store is a forum for many musical artists, and not just Stevie.
I have to say though, I have re-read fox's original post and like I've said before I understand perception is different for everyone. I do not see anything offensive about the incident though. I mean, a private conversation which is overheard. Do you think that if you were with your mother or friend and walked into a store and music you hate is playing you wouldn't make a comment or go "Bleh, I hate this crap". Secondly, they asked fox "Don't you get sick of listening to this?" at which point they first find out that Fox is a Stevie fan because Fox tells them. then they say "Oh, Sorry" which Fox hears as being condicending. Then Fox, already knowing they dislike Stevie asks, "Why, what's wrong with it" and get's upset when they tell him what they think is wrong with it and does this:

"(nobody calls Stevie crap in my presence!) so I went off on this Stevie ramage - totally cussing this girl out with Stevie/FM knowledge & how influential they are and what the hell had Mudvayne ever done for the betterment of music"

At which point the mother and daughter say "Don't worry about the CD" and leave.
They did not respond with a "f-off" or "screw you and your CD" They said "Don't worry about the cd" and left.

So, if we forget about the overheard conversation which wasn't intended for anyones ears except the mother and daughter, that leaves us with the "Oh Sorry" being what was rude. I would ask, whether it was intended sincerely or not, why should an appology be expected at all for someone expressing their opinion?

Fox's moral of the story
"The moral of the story is:
'Don't mess with Stevie or I will verbally destroy you.'"

Now, who was rude again?:shrug:

[Sahara]

Say for example I was a Lindsey Lohan fan, and I came here because I wanted to talk about Lindsey covering "Edge of Seventeen" and then saw all the nasty things people were saying about not only the song, but about her personally? Wouldn't that be hurtful?

Hmm. Woops. :rolleyes: Guilty as charged.

:shocked:

[cliffdweller]

I mean, a private conversation which is overheard.

Of course it's "noone's fault" if you overhear something in private conversation that you take offense to, as long as it wasn't DIRECTED at you, or blatantly announced as if you don't care who hears about your poor musical taste :laugh:. A private conversation is one that usually cannot be overheard, or is hard to overhear. For instance, if I was trying to have a private conversation that I didn't want overheard, I would probably speak softly to the person I was with so as not to air my pompous opinions for the whole store to hear.

Do you think that if you were with your mother or friend and walked into a store and music you hate is playing you wouldn't make a comment or go "Bleh, I hate this crap".
Probably, but not to the employee working there, and I'd try not to say it within earshot of the employee because they may be the one who played the music, and I guess I'm just highly sensitive about these things because I know how much I hate it when my favorite band is shit on by people with no regard.


Secondly, they asked fox "Don't you get sick of listening to this?" at which point they first find out that Fox is a Stevie fan because Fox tells them. then they say "Oh, Sorry" which Fox hears as being condicending. Then Fox, already knowing they dislike Stevie asks, "Why, what's wrong with it" Which I wouldn't have done, but apparently Fox got caught up on the moment. Anyway, they were the shit starters, I mean who would ask that? "Don't you get tired of hearing this?" Again, don't they care that they could possibly be offending the person who played it? Don't they care that they're being shitty unnecessarily? It doesn't matter when they found out that Fox was a Stevie fan, it doesn't matter if they ever found out that information, the point is, they were loud, pompous windbags that if they had taken a moment to think, would have figured that the employee in front of them just might have played the music they were about to shit on, and therefore it might be a good idea to just keep their comments to themselves. But no, people don't think about that kind of stuff, and then actually have the nerve to defend their bad behavior by saying stuff like, well, if they can't take it too bad for them, they should just grow a thicker skin. What's fair about that?

[paleshadow]

It doesn't matter when they found out that Fox was a Stevie fan, it doesn't matter if they ever found out that information, the point is, they were loud, pompous windbags that if they had taken a moment to think, would have figured that the employee in front of them just might have played the music they were about to shit on, and therefore it might be a good idea to just keep their comments to themselves. But no, people don't think about that kind of stuff, and then actually have the nerve to defend their bad behavior by saying stuff like, well, if they can't take it too bad for them, they should just grow a thicker skin. What's fair about that?

OK, now they are loud pompus windbags, and that wasn't even in Fox's original post. By tomorrow they are going to be Bush supporting child molesters. My point is that if it were someone that Fox disliked as well their behaivor wouldn't have been rude? Right? So that's the mentality? In this paticular situation I think the responsability lies with the person who chose to work in a situation where it would be more than likely that they would be exposed to people who could potentially like a different type of music. So if I was with a good friend of mine at a clothing store and they held up a shirt and said "What do you think"? And I said "I think that's the ugliest shirt I have ever laid eyes on" and it just so happens the cashier bought that shirt the day before, I would be a pompus windbag? And it would be considered acceptable for the cashier to "verbally assault" me as to why the shirt was the greatest shirt ever? Come on now? How is that rational? It's not, and it's the deep devotion to Stevie that sometimes makes people irrational. Maybe there's nothing wrong with that, except not recognizing it.

[Rickypt]

Foxyluva, I'm late to this thread but wanted to say that I think you were right to have that reaction. To me, the issue isn't that they didn't like Stevie, it is that they continued to bash the music after you said she's one of your favorites. Why couldn't they just shut up at that point, or say "I guess we disagree". It was also rude of them to make an assumption that you didn't like the music in the first place. It's none of their frickin' business and sounds like you were just trying to be a helpful salesperson.

It's just part of the culture of meanness that permeates every inch of society these days, egged on by "reality" shows that entertain us by showing people at their worst behavior.

[foxyluva]

OK, now they are loud pompus windbags, and that wasn't even in Fox's original post. By tomorrow they are going to be Bush supporting child molesters. My point is that if it were someone that Fox disliked as well their behaivor wouldn't have been rude? Right? So that's the mentality? In this paticular situation I think the responsability lies with the person who chose to work in a situation where it would be more than likely that they would be exposed to people who could potentially like a different type of music. So if I was with a good friend of mine at a clothing store and they held up a shirt and said "What do you think"? And I said "I think that's the ugliest shirt I have ever laid eyes on" and it just so happens the cashier bought that shirt the day before, I would be a pompus windbag? And it would be considered acceptable for the cashier to "verbally assault" me as to why the shirt was the greatest shirt ever? Come on now? How is that rational? It's not, and it's the deep devotion to Stevie that sometimes makes people irrational. Maybe there's nothing wrong with that, except not recognizing it.

I know post was not directed at me - but this is getting ridiculous.

Im sorry, but Stevie Nicks isn't just some shirt to me - Stevie's music had helped me through some of the toughest times of my life, and alot of times is the only thing I can depend on - so when somebody makes a rude remark which is well out of order - I am going to say something about it :sorry:

Personally I found them rude - and like I say, I know many people who do not care for Stevie or her music, but when somebody makes me feel bad for liking an artist that has helped me so much - I am going to say something.

Thank you Ricky :)

[cliffdweller]

So if I was with a good friend of mine at a clothing store and they held up a shirt and said "What do you think"? And I said "I think that's the ugliest shirt I have ever laid eyes on" and it just so happens the cashier bought that shirt the day before, I would be a pompus windbag? And it would be considered acceptable for the cashier to "verbally assault" me as to why the shirt was the greatest shirt ever?

Of course not, and I never said that. In fact, I said that I wouldn't do that. I guess you're missing my point...the one about not being rude and saying shitty things without thinking? And you're remark about "maybe he/she shouldn't work in an environment where his/her feelings may get hurt, etc," again, you're placing the burden on the person who was offended not the offendee, I don't get THIS logic. Why is all this Fox's fault? Why do you feel like those people were not responsible for their actions? Because they were. It seems, and I could be wrong, that you don't feel like what you say affects people, as if words are really just that, merely utterances that flutter up into the ether without ever touching anyone or making any impact in any way. I don't feel this way. I feel like words have a very profound effect on people, and can instigate and motivate all kinds of feelings and actions be they good or bad. Language is powerful stuff, man. Of course the instance you gave about the ugly shirt and the store clerk isn't really that dire in the grand scheme of things, I'm sure we can all agree on that. But it's this principal you seem to be upholding that people can just espouse whatever they feel like without taking responsibility for the consequences of such utterances that has me puzzled and a bit taken aback :sorry:.

[paleshadow]

Of course not, and I never said that. In fact, I said that I wouldn't do that. I guess you're missing my point...the one about not being rude and saying shitty things without thinking? And you're remark about "maybe he/she shouldn't work in an environment where his/her feelings may get hurt, etc," again, you're placing the burden on the person who was offended not the offendee, I don't get THIS logic. Why is all this Fox's fault? Why do you feel like those people were not responsible for their actions? Because they were. It seems, and I could be wrong, that you don't feel like what you say affects people, as if words are really just that, merely utterances that flutter up into the ether without ever touching anyone or making any impact in any way. I don't feel this way. I feel like words have a very profound effect on people, and can instigate and motivate all kinds of feelings and actions be they good or bad. Language is powerful stuff, man. Of course the instance you gave about the ugly shirt and the store clerk isn't really that dire in the grand scheme of things, I'm sure we can all agree on that. But it's this principal you seem to be upholding that people can just espouse whatever they feel like without taking responsibility for the consequences of such utterances that has me puzzled and a bit taken aback :sorry:.

I didn't say Fox shouldn't work at a record store. I said that people who put themselves in situations where they are going to be sensative about someone else not liking the same things they like are the ones who then bear the consiquences. If I was a vegetarian, I don't think I would work in a steak house restaurant. Again, people here aren't objective because it's Stevie we are talking about, so you can say the shirt argument isn't dire because it isn't Steive. That's my point, if we move this debate outside of the Stevie universe it has a different outcome, and why should that be? Why would logic be suspended because it involves Stevie Nicks? I'm saying that a mountain was made out of a mole hill. I am not villainizing Fox for how he felt, everyone is intitled to their feelings and I'm sorry his/hers were hurt, but I am saying it isn't fair or rational to villainize the two people who inadvertantly pissed Fox off by having an opinion that conflicted with his/hers, and clearly many people here.

[foxyluva]

I am going to repeat my post for I feel it went unnoticed:

-----------
I know post was not directed at me - but this is getting ridiculous.

Im sorry, but Stevie Nicks isn't just some shirt to me - Stevie's music had helped me through some of the toughest times of my life, and alot of times is the only thing I can depend on - so when somebody makes a rude remark which is well out of order - I am going to say something about it

Personally I found them rude - and like I say, I know many people who do not care for Stevie or her music, but when somebody makes me feel bad for liking an artist that has helped me so much - I am going to say something.

[paleshadow]

Foxyluva, I'm late to this thread but wanted to say that I think you were right to have that reaction. To me, the issue isn't that they didn't like Stevie, it is that they continued to bash the music after you said she's one of your favorites. Why couldn't they just shut up at that point, or say "I guess we disagree". It was also rude of them to make an assumption that you didn't like the music in the first place. It's none of their frickin' business and sounds like you were just trying to be a helpful salesperson.

It's just part of the culture of meanness that permeates every inch of society these days, egged on by "reality" shows that entertain us by showing people at their worst behavior.

So everyone who has a different opinion about something, and happen to tell you about it are mean? When the customers asked if Fox got sick of the music and he told them it was his choice after they said "Oh, sorry" Fox asked "why, what's wrong with it" and then they said what they thought was wrong with it. Fox could have done the same thing and said "I guess we dissagree" since it was already clear they didn't care for the music.

[cliffdweller]

So everyone who has a different opinion about something, and happen to tell you about it are mean?


Yeah, that's what everyone is saying :rolleyes:. Of course not! The point is, don't be rude unnecessarily, it's that simple. It's possible to be critical of something without being mean, unfortunately, a lot of people don't take the time or care to practice this when they disagree with someone. You're such a hold out! Why can't you admit that those people were rude? Why is that so hard?

[cliffdweller]

it isn't fair or rational to villainize the two people who inadvertantly pissed Fox off by having an opinion that conflicted with his/hers, and clearly many people here.

It isn't fair to defend their piss-poor behavior either.

And it isn't the fact that they didn't agree with Fox, it's the manner with which they did it that chaps my ass. A little common courtesy goes a long way.

[David]

This happened to me once. I walked into a music store to buy something & look around & my private comments about the store music playing elicited a lecture from the salesperson, so I reported the unpleasantness to the manager. But I did so politely. I never cause a scene in a retail establishment--only here at the Ledge!

[chiliD]

And I totally understand how people don't like Stevie

I know LOTS of Fleetwood Mac fans who can't stand her. :eek: :shrug:

[JazmenFlowers]

I know LOTS of Fleetwood Mac fans who can't stand her. :eek: :shrug:
that's probably true, but there are just as many and maybe more who love her with FM and solo

can't please everyone all the time.

[JazmenFlowers]

This happened to me once. I walked into a music store to buy something & look around & my private comments about the store music playing elicited a lecture from the salesperson, so I reported the unpleasantness to the manager. But I did so politely. I never cause a scene in a retail establishment--only here at the Ledge!
that's very nice of you. I wish I had that amount of self-restraint. I guess I feel like she's worth standing up for and to hell with anyone thinking it's rude or childish or whatever.

[paleshadow]

You're such a hold out! Why can't you admit that those people were rude? Why is that so hard?


I wasn't there, but from Fox's post I just don't believe they were rude, and I don't think just because I'm a Stevie fan I should suspend all logic and go with the popular opinion. I've given several instances of the same cenario without including Stevie in the mix and the responses I've gotten are "Well, that's different, it's not Stevie". Which just strengthens my point that it's only OK because it was Stevie and that's not rational behavior. I even said that I understand that and what I think is wrong about that is at least not admitting it's not rational. I know lots of people that would probably have done the same thing, but they don't try to make it seem like it is normal behavior.

[cliffdweller]

I've given several instances of the same cenario without including Stevie in the mix and the responses I've gotten are "Well, that's different, it's not Stevie"


Well I didn't say that, and it's not just because I'm a Stevie fan that I made my arguments either. I would make these same arguments about anything I hold dear. See, you're example about the ugly shirt and the clerk was a straw-man type of argument because you built your argument on a very weak premise and then tried to "muscle it up" from something that is really not comparable to the original argument at all. Love for one's favorite musician is not comparable to one's preference in some haphazardly random article of clothing. And yes, my musical taste, is a touchy subject, because I feel strongly about the music I love, so I really don't like to hear people's rude comments about how bad my taste is because they don't like it. For instance if someone said to me, "you know I don't really like that" or "I really don't like that music and here's why".... that's one thing, but for someone to criticize the music I like in a shitty manner and then act as if they have an informed opinion on it but don't, THAT'S when the claws come out. I don't mind informed and/or respectfully worded criticism, I mean, that's what makes the world go 'round right? It's when people are shitty unnecessarily in relaying their opinions that really bothers me.

[David]

I don't mind informed and/or respectfully worded criticism, I mean, that's what makes the world go 'round right?Yabbut the problem is that "respectfully worded criticism" isn't cut & dried. What constitutes respectfully worded criticism? Whose standards are used to gauge such things? Certainly not mine--I know that by now. People post old rolling stone reviews that I consider good criticism that isn't unnecessarily ad hominem or whatever, & people here still go red with rage over it. That's happened so many times, I've lost count.

There are some people here who get turned off by any expression of dislike for Fleetwood Mac & who say so, & there are others who very much enjoy reading critical opinions & say so. That is I think the crux: some do enjoy & some don't enjoy hearing stuff they like criticized.

by the way, I'm speaking about opinions that don't turn ad hominem against other Ledgies but that stick to the subject of the criticism. The actual attacks against other Ledgies aren't justifiable. If you searched my old posts, I think you'd find almost zero actual attacks against other specifically named Ledgies. I really do try to avoid that at all times. But I certainly speak freely about Fleetwood mac & even the fan base in general because that's a perfectly valid subject for comment.

[cliffdweller]

Yabbut the problem is that "respectfully worded criticism" isn't cut & dried. What constitutes respectfully worded criticism?

I can't answer this completely, but I bet it wouldn't go something like this: "Man, you LIKE that? Woa, I'm so sorry for you (insert condescention here)." I think we all know when someone is criticising something unmercilessly, I mean, language and communication have not broken down to such a degree that we still do not understand one another's and/or one another's intentions has it? I mean, I like Derrida and all, but let's not take his claims about the gaps within language to new and absurd heights!

There are some people here who get turned off by any expression of dislike for Fleetwood Mac & who say so, & there are others who very much enjoy reading critical opinions & say so. That is I think the crux: some do enjoy & some don't enjoy hearing stuff they like criticized.

I love to hear criticism when it's well thought out and reflected upon by the critic even if it's something I don't agree with! Some of my favorite theorists are ones that I don't always agree with, or in some rare instances, don't agree with much at all. But it's the WAY they make their arguments, the way they use rhetoric, the way they are able to be creative in their persuasion that intrigues me and makes me respect their positions even if I don't agree with them. Respectful criticism does not necessarily equal criticism you agree with, it is criticism that takes into account its audience and at least tries to make a well thought out, well informed argument.

[paleshadow]

I can't answer this completely, but I bet it wouldn't go something like this: "Man, you LIKE that? Woa, I'm so sorry for you (insert condescention here)." I think we all know when someone is criticising something unmercilessly, I mean, language and communication have not broken down to such a degree that we still do not understand one another's and/or one another's intentions has it? I mean, I like Derrida and all, but let's not take his claims about the gaps within language to new and absurd heights!

Again, here is an instance where Fox's original post is being embellished to strenghthen your argument. No one said "Man, you like that? Woa, I'm so sorry for you" and the condescention talked about could be misinterpreted. If communication was so cut and dry companies around the world would not provide training in order to understand things like tone, gestures and facial expressions in relationship to how things expressed verbally are intended. Overhearing something negative about someone you hold on a pedestal would definatley affect how further things would be interpreted because the person who was offended is already in defensive mode.
You can't write off my examples as not being related to ones love of a musical icon and a shirt because you are assuming that a shirt or designer can't mean the same thing to someone else; however, if you wish you can insert any similar scenario such as two people talking about a paticular author in a bookstore, two people talking about a specific actors performance while in a video store, whatever you want. Everyone values different things so to write off one over the other is an ineffective arguement.

On edit: another example would be someone making fun of a celebrities baby's name on a message board. Since most of us use screen names how would anyone know if a member here didn't share the same name as the one being made fun of?

[cliffdweller]

Again, here is an instance where Fox's original post is being embellished to strenghthen your argument. No one said "Man, you like that? Woa, I'm so sorry for you"

Oh but didn't they? They did basically I mean, the intent was definitely there. And for the record, they DID specifically say, "sorry" as in "sorry you like that."


You can't write off my examples as not being related to ones love of a musical icon and a shirt because you are assuming that a shirt or designer can't mean the same thing to someone else;

I'm sorry, but this is just laughable :laugh:

however, if you wish you can insert any similar scenario such as two people talking about a paticular author in a bookstore, two people talking about a specific actors performance while in a video store, whatever you want. Everyone values different things so to write off one over the other is an ineffective arguement.

I'll give you authors and actors but in NO WAY am I giving you inanimate objects :laugh: Look, I said it 100 times before---those people were rude, just. plain. rude. Rude I say! RUUUUUUUUDE! That's really the thrust of my argument, these people were rude and didn't think before they opened their mouths. And then to top it all off, after being told and I DO paraphrase, "oh, that's my favorite singer," were snarky because they put their foot in their mouth. Who's the shitty one? I know you'll never admit it, maybe it's because you identify so strongly with those customers, is that it?

[paleshadow]

Oh but didn't they? They did basically I mean, the intent was definitely there. And for the record, they DID specifically say, "sorry" as in "sorry you like that."

No they didn't. You yourself just wrote "basically". You are interpreting what they said that way, as did fox, only you weren't even there.




I'm sorry, but this is just laughable :laugh:


Here you are assuming what other people value. I didn't say it wouldn't be odd for someone to place the same vaule on a shirt or designer, but it's not up to me to judge what people value. Isn't this the same thing that the two customers in Fox's store are being accused of? Some people think it's laughable that I regard Stevie Nicks so highly, again it's subjective. You think the possiblility that someone would value sometihng you think is silly is laughable?


I'll give you authors and actors but in NO WAY am I giving you inanimate objects :laugh: Look, I said it 100 times before---those people were rude, just. plain. rude. Rude I say! RUUUUUUUUDE! That's really the thrust of my argument, these people were rude and didn't think before they opened their mouths. And then to top it all off, after being told and I DO paraphrase, "oh, that's my favorite singer," were snarky because they put their foot in their mouth. Who's the shitty one? I know you'll never admit it, maybe it's because you identify so strongly with those customers, is that it?

I don't believe they were rude, and I've stated that, there's nothing for me to admit. They didn't say anything that anyone else wouldn't have, and what they did say to Fox was after Fox questioned them. I can relate to them in the sense that I probably have said things outloud to other people that may have made someone who overheard feel badly. As I am sure you may have done: http://www.fleetwoodmac.net/ledge/showthread.php?p=518420#post518420

Perhaps there are Ledgies named moses? Are you assuming there are not, and if so would what you said here:
"Actually, maybe people should just keep their mouths shut sometimes, because you never know who you might offend unnecesarily" be applicable?

[cliffdweller]

Here you are assuming what other people value. I didn't say it wouldn't be odd for someone to place the same vaule on a shirt or designer, but it's not up to me to judge what people value. Isn't this the same thing that the two customers in Fox's store are being accused of? Some people think it's laughable that I regard Stevie Nicks so highly, again it's subjective. You think the possiblility that someone would value sometihng you think is silly is laughable?

I think you're silly :p .

Even if we're not getting anywhere, at least we're upping the post count on this thread...

This argument is entering the realm of the absurd and has grown "most tiresome." I refuse to argue the finer points of how a person is more valuable than a shirt. That makes me laugh just typing it!

[DavidMn]

I think you're silly :p .

Even if we're not getting anywhere, at least we're upping the post count on this thread...

This argument is entering the realm of the absurd and has grown "most tiresome." I refuse to argue how a person is of more value than a shirt. That makes me laugh just typing it!I got a chuckle out of it.:laugh:

[paleshadow]

I think you're silly :p .

Even if we're not getting anywhere, at least we're upping the post count on this thread...

This argument is entering the realm of the absurd and has grown "most tiresome." I refuse to argue the finer points of how a person is more valuable than a shirt. That makes me laugh just typing it!

So then chose one of the alternates that you already accepted and argue it from there instead of focusing on what you already dismissed. I said it was odd, but really like I said, who are we to decide what is valuable to others, anymore than they are justified in passing judgement on what we value?

[DavidMn]

So then chose one of the alternates that you already accepted and argue it from there instead of focusing on what you already dismissed. I said it was odd, but really like I said, who are we to decide what is valuable to others, anymore than they are justified in passing judgement on what we value?Ok youve made your point. Can we please drop it now? I respect your right to have your opinion and express it, but I think this has gone far enough.:nod:

[cliffdweller]

So then chose one of the alternates that you already accepted and argue it from there instead of focusing on what you already dismissed.

Don't tell me what to do!! :p :laugh:

Look, I think you missed my overall point, but that's cool. I'm not going to argue it until I'm blue in the face like this: :distress:


Edit: David, consider it DROPPED!

[DavidMn]

Don't tell me what to do!! :p :laugh:

Look, I think you missed my overall point, but that's cool. I'm not going to argue it until I'm blue in the face like this: :distress:


Edit: David, consider it DROPPED!Amen. good for you.:nod:

[Jyqm]

Christ. I think I'll keep the condescending rant to myself, but one thing that I don't believe has been pointed out yet is the irony of a music store employee playing an album in the hopes of selling a copy or two, only to later be rude to a pair of customers who had hoped to buy a CD but now likely won't be setting foot in said store again for quite some time.

[paleshadow]

Ok youve made your point. Can we please drop it now? I respect your right to have your opinion and express it, but I think this has gone far enough.:nod:

Fair enough but if you look back at all my posts here except for the initial one, they have been in response to posts directed at me as to why I don't agree the people were rude. In any event, I should also like to point out as many have in the past, that this is a public forum and at any time if people don't want to continue to participate or read the posts, they are free not to. ;)

[DavidMn]

Fair enough but if you look back at all my posts here except for the initial one, they have been in response to posts directed at me as to why I don't agree the people were rude. In any event, I should also like to point out as many have in the past, that this is a public forum and at any time if people don't want to continue to participate or read the posts, they are free not to. ;)Youre right too. Just want you to know that I dont have any kind of problem with you.:)

[Rickypt]

So everyone who has a different opinion about something, and happen to tell you about it are mean? When the customers asked if Fox got sick of the music and he told them it was his choice after they said "Oh, sorry" Fox asked "why, what's wrong with it" and then they said what they thought was wrong with it. Fox could have done the same thing and said "I guess we dissagree" since it was already clear they didn't care for the music.

No, expressing a differing opinion is fine and healthy. It's how the differing opinion is expressed that I'm talking about. The description of this event, as told by Foxy, demonstrates pretty clearly to me that the customers were rude.

Talking to each other about how they hate the music is fine and foxy was right to ignore them. Asking (assuming?) foxy if he also hates the music was dumb, but fine. Saying "sorry" in a condescending manner and saying that Stevie is crap after hearing that she is one of foxy's favorites is rude.

It's Manners 101 to me. A salesperson who is trying to help you has patiently ignored comments trashing his musical taste, you've now learned that this singer is one of his favorites, the truly polite thing to do is say "Oh, I'm sorry we were saying those things" in a sincere manner. Other polite actions would be to say nothing at all, or if you must have the last word, say "Oh, I really don't like this music" and move on.

You're right, foxy could have walked away or ended the discussion after they said Stevie is crap. So it got messy on all side. But I think the customers started it and were out of line.

Again, it has nothing to do with their not liking Stevie. It's how the expressed it and their insensitivity to foxy's feelings. Perhaps I'm just becoming a cranky old queen, but I have a thing for basic manners. Be kind to people, try not to make assumptions, be willing to apologize, and know when not saying something is the best way to go.

[paleshadow]

Youre right too. Just want you to know that I dont have any kind of problem with you.:)

Ditto. :o

[Rickypt]

I've given several instances of the same cenario without including Stevie in the mix and the responses I've gotten are "Well, that's different, it's not Stevie".

Actually, that's not my response. I think the behavior would be considered rude regardless of the details of the scenario, when played out in its entirety.

Taking the shirt example:

You and your friend go into a store and talk about how ugly the shirt is on the rack. You then ask the sales clerk if he also thinks it is ugly. (Not rude, but an unnecessary question). He says "actually, it's my favorite shirt and I own one". You and your friend then condescendingly say "oh, sorry". (rude) He says why don't you like the shirt (unnecessary question, but not rude) and you say "it's crap". (rude)

Totally rude behavior on the part of you and your friend in my opinion. It would be the same thing if you were talking about Chinese food. It's all in how the differing opinion is expressed and how the other person is treated.

[paleshadow]

No, expressing a differing opinion is fine and healthy. It's how the differing opinion is expressed that I'm talking about. The description of this event, as told by Foxy, demonstrates pretty clearly to me that the customers were rude.

Talking to each other about how they hate the music is fine and foxy was right to ignore them. Asking (assuming?) foxy if he also hates the music was dumb, but fine. Saying "sorry" in a condescending manner and saying that Stevie is crap after hearing that she is one of foxy's favorites is rude.

It's Manners 101 to me. A salesperson who is trying to help you has patiently ignored comments trashing his musical taste, you've now learned that this singer is one of his favorites, the truly polite thing to do is say "Oh, I'm sorry we were saying those things" in a sincere manner. Other polite actions would be to say nothing at all, or if you must have the last word, say "Oh, I really don't like this music" and move on.

You're right, foxy could have walked away or ended the discussion after they said Stevie is crap. So it got messy on all side. But I think the customers started it and were out of line.

Again, it has nothing to do with their not liking Stevie. It's how the expressed it and their insensitivity to foxy's feelings. Perhaps I'm just becoming a cranky old queen, but I have a thing for basic manners. Be kind to people, try not to make assumptions, be willing to apologize, and know when not saying something is the best way to go.

Yes, but Foxy already heard them say they thought the music was crap, and after they asked if Foxy was sick of listening to the music Foxy asked "Why, what's wrong with it". if you already knew how someone felt about the music because you heard them say it, why ask them "what's wrong with it"? Like Foxy did is inviting the events that occured next. I probably wouldn't have used the words "it's crap" myself regardless of who it was. We don't wear our feelings posted on shirts so people will know what we are sensative to or what our views are though. Like Cliffdwellers comment about the name Moses. It conflicts with everything that she has been saying. Now, I never said she was rude for saying it, but by her own words she herself has. My feelings are that it's really hard to be yourself and go through day to day life without saying something that may upset someone. We shouldn't have to walk around on eggshells because someone might take offense to things, but yes we shouldn't go out of our way to hurt people either. Was Foxy offended? Yep. Did this mother and daughter go into that store and say "Let's offend someone today", I doubt it. It's just a case of agreeing to disagree. I can read Foxy's post and honestly say I wouldn't have been offended, but everyone is different.

I enjoy these forums because there ARE so many people who have different points of view, and it's enlightening to hear them and sometimes debate them. It's unfortunate when people take things personally, or take it to a personal level like telling someone they think they are "silly", especially when the subject of the thread is being rude.

[paleshadow]

Actually, that's not my response. I think the behavior would be considered rude regardless of the details of the scenario, when played out in its entirety.

Taking the shirt example:

You and your friend go into a store and talk about how ugly the shirt is on the rack. You then ask the sales clerk if he also thinks it is ugly. (Not rude, but an unnecessary question). He says "actually, it's my favorite shirt and I own one". You and your friend then condescendingly say "oh, sorry". (rude) He says why don't you like the shirt (unnecessary question, but not rude) and you say "it's crap". (rude)

Totally rude behavior on the part of you and your friend in my opinion. It would be the same thing if you were talking about Chinese food. It's all in how the differing opinion is expressed and how the other person is treated.


Yes if in fact the "oh sorry" was intended to be condescending. It is possible that if the store clerk heard the two people talking about the shirt would get pissed off because they love it, and then automatically become defensive. Again, I wouldn't have said "it's crap" regardless of the situation, but if I was the cashier and I asked, then that's the chance I take "Don't ask me what I think of you, I might not give the answer that you want me to..... OH WELL" :thumbsup:

[Rickypt]

if I was the cashier and I asked, then that's the chance I take "Don't ask me what I think of you, I might not give the answer that you want me to..... OH WELL" :thumbsup:

:laugh:

As long as you don't say "well, it's not that funny is it" leading to an endless drum solo. Ooops, was that rude?

I think at this point the moral of this story is that Stevie needs to go on tour this summer otherwise this is the best conversation we have to look forward to for quite some time. :lol:

I'm still with you, though, foxyluva. :thumbsup:

[paleshadow]

:laugh:



I think at this point the moral of this story is that Stevie needs to go on tour this summer otherwise this is the best conversation we have to look forward to for quite some time. :lol:



I'm still holding out to hear about some recording for a new studio album, but I'll take a tour if that's my only choice!

[cliffdweller]

It's unfortunate when people take things personally, or take it to a personal level like telling someone they think they are "silly", especially when the subject of the thread is being rude.

:laugh: :laugh: I was kidding around with you, although I DID think your reasoning about shirts and designers was amusing :o

And if I was taking this whole debate personally (which I'm not) you would have seen a lot more of these: :mad: in my posts! :)

[David]

I'm still holding out to hear about some recording for a new studio album, but I'll take a tour if that's my only choice!So is Madame Nicks not touring in the United States this year? I've heard so many conflicting guesses here on the ledge that I don't know which end is up.

[THINKABOUTIT]

:wavey: Hey..I TOTALLY understand your being peeved at the customer dogging Stevie..it's like how we all feel when people think she's a "he" or remember her as the druggie....I hear you dear :blob1: Just consider that when some of us go into our local Wherehouse music and they are playing c"rap"...errr ummm..rap, I may want to cover my ears and run out shouting "find a happy place"....it is still their choice to play it since I don't work there ;) I do give you props for standing up for Stevie :blob1: :woohoo: I am all for converting people :lol: ...yet, there are limitations...actually, I heard "Everyday" in the mall the other day :eek: and wondered how many others know it and how many others haven't a friggin CLUE!!! :lol: I also hear the Dreams Remix at my local Jamba Juice :laugh: :nod:

[paleshadow]

:laugh: :laugh: I was kidding around with you, although I DID think your reasoning about shirts and designers was amusing :o

And if I was taking this whole debate personally (which I'm not) you would have seen a lot more of these: :mad: in my posts! :)

;) No harm done. Silly is hardly the worst thing I've ever been called!

[paleshadow]

So is Madame Nicks not touring in the United States this year? I've heard so many conflicting guesses here on the ledge that I don't know which end is up.

Well, I don't think anything has been said or hinted at officially. A lot of talk about a FM outing next year, but that wouldn't rule out a quick summer tour for Stevie. She could tour from late May till August and then have 6 months off before going into rehearsals for a new FM tour to begin in the spring of 07. Or maybe she could go into the studio and record a couple of new songs to put on the live in Melbourne cd/dvd? :D