Article about Melbourne Cup celebs being paid for their appearances

[Livia]

http://www.smh.com.au/news/spike/high-life-not-always-a-bed-of-roses/2005/10/28/1130400353973.html

High life not always a bed of roses
By Andrew Hornery
October 29, 2005

An all expenses paid, champagne-fuelled day at Australia's most glamorous racing carnival complete with limos, adoring fans, limitless prawns and your choice of designer outfits. Oh, and a cool $US200,000 ($264,000) for your troubles. Sound tempting?

As petite Hollywood star and Desperate Housewife Eva Longoria will no doubt know after Derby Day today when she finally steps down from her towering stilettos, you should be careful for what you wish for.

On the outside the life of a celebrity heading to the races during the Melbourne Cup carnival looks like a charmed lot, but digging into the complicated contracts and never-ending negotiations between agents, publicists, journalists, editors, photographers and marketing executives, the gleam soon starts to rub off.

Longoria is heading for Flemington today where she will the guest of Myer. She is the first of many celebrities headed for the races in Melbourne over the coming week including Carson Kressley, Stevie Nicks, Ron Moss, Kelly Clarkson and Luciano Pavarotti.

Depending on how hot they rate on the fame radar and how clever their agents are, each of the celebrities will be paid handsomely for their appearances, either in contra or cash. But there's a catch. The further up the celebrity fame tree they live, the more complicated their day becomes.

"We are certainly very happy with what we are getting from Eva. She and Myer are a really good fit," Myer's spokesman John Gillman explained.

"Eva has been bombarded with requests from various media and invitations to go to a lot of marquees. She will only be at Flemington for six or so hours, there simply isn't enough time for her to oblige the invitations. She will only be in the Myer marquee."

Needless to say, Longoria, like the other celebrities with their respective marquees, is contractually obliged not to enter any other marquees besides their host's. Emirates and Motorola are both touting exclusive celebrities in their tents, while the traditional celeb hot spot, Moet, is taking a more demure approach this year, banning soap stars from the guest list in favour of home grown socialites such as Penne Peacock, Erica Baxter and Louise Daniel, who will even be dressed by their hosts in the latest threads from Christian Dior.

Over at Myer, Gillman admitted Longoria's crammed itinerary had been planned down to the last minute, including where she should be seen and who she should be seen talking to.

"Those celebrities are given a road map, told 'do not pass go' and kept on a very tight leash," said one marquee organiser, who asked to remain anonymous as she was still trying to build her guestlist. "Sometimes you can pull it off and get them in, other times it's just too difficult. The minders are like pitbulls, they jealously guard their guests because of the amount of money they have spent getting exclusivity."

Last year Myer's key guest was Kressley, who arrives in Sydney tomorrow for a couple of days before heading to the cup again. There's been no word if John Laws will be looking up Kressley. Laws ignited an ugly row when he called the TV fashion guru a "pillow biter". Golden Tonsils claimed it had all been intended as a joke, later publishing an apology in the gay press.

Heh. "pillow biter." :D

[dissention]

Depending on how hot they rate on the fame radar and how clever their agents are, each of the celebrities will be paid handsomely for their appearances, either in contra or cash. But there's a catch. The further up the celebrity fame tree they live, the more complicated their day becomes.


Excuse me while I vomit into my hat.

"The more complicated their day becomes"? Yeah, they sure are busting their asses to earn over a quarter of a million dollars. It's hard work to extend one's hand to lift a glass of bubbly, dontcha know? Fecking disgusting.

[Livia]

Don't hate the playa, sweetie, hate the game. :xoxo:

[SapphireSister]

Don't hate the playa, sweetie, hate the game. :xoxo:

Right on sista, you took the words out of my mouth :nod:.

[Livia]

Well, look at the heading of the article...

Show me the hiiiiigh life! :lol:

It says they're being paid "either in contra or cash." So if you opted for the contra- would that be accommodations in a 5-star hotel? With your own masseuse, hair and makeup peeps? A goody bag of La Mer products? Can you just make a $200,000 wish list of stuff? :p

The diva needs L'Occitane candles, Nag ChampRa and a cheeseburger sent up to her suite! Stat!

[strandinthewind]

Excuse me while I vomit into my hat.

"The more complicated their day becomes"? Yeah, they sure are busting their asses to earn over a quarter of a million dollars. It's hard work to extend one's hand to lift a glass of bubbly, dontcha know? Fecking disgusting.

Well, they do not get that in cash dear. They have to pay out to their agent and Uncle Sam (and perhaps Australian tax as well). Moreover, depending on their contract, they have to fly themselves and their crew out and buy the wardrobe (though some contracts include this) - so of that $250,000, she may see $50,000-$75,000 - which still ain't bad but is hardly the whole $250,000. And - before you judge too harshly, remember, if you had the chance, you would sell $500 a yard fabric at how much an hour to your clients :wavey: I am sure many would vomit over that.

[dissention]

Well, they do not get that in cash dear.

Yeah, silly me, I thought they got one lump sum. :rolleyes:

Christ.

[strandinthewind]

Yeah, silly me, I thought they got one lump sum. :rolleyes:

Christ.

Well, you implied it - but and in any event - do you lecture your rich clients this way?

[dissention]

Well, you implied it - but and in any event - do you lecture your rich clients this way?

Of course I don't, but that doesn't mean that I don't get disgusted by the ways some people treat money sometimes. Heaven forbid if I find it silly that Ms. Stevie and Miss Longoria have their already rich asses pampered even more just for going to a bloody race.

[strandinthewind]

Of course I don't, but that doesn't mean that I don't get disgusted by the ways some people treat money sometimes. Heaven forbid if I find it silly that Ms. Stevie and Miss Longoria have their already rich asses pampered even more just for going to a bloody race.

LOL - you sound more jealous than disgusted :wavey:

Also, have you ever done anything like that? I have and it is exhausting, though the pay more than compensates for that. But, you make it sound like they just show up and the "hard work" is "extend[ing] one's hand to lift a glass of bubbly" - it is way more than that "dontcha know?" :wavey:

[dissention]

LOL - you sound more jealous than disgusted :wavey:

As if I give two squirts of duck shit.

Also, have you ever done anything like that? I have and it is exhausting, though the pay more than compensates for that. But, you make it sound like they just show up and the "hard work" is "extend[ing] one's hand to lift a glass of bubbly" - it is way more than that "dontcha know?" :wavey:

Exhausting? :laugh: Tell that to people who work for a living and don't get a booty of $50-$75,000 plus perks for a couple days of "work."

Exhausting. Ha.

[strandinthewind]

. . . Exhausting? :laugh: Tell that to people who work for a living and don't get a booty of $50-$75,000 plus perks for a couple days of "work."

Exhausting. Ha.

It is exhausting, I have done it. But, you will never admit that because you hate rich people unless you are earning you living off of them.

[dissention]

It is exhausting, I have done it.

I don't care how "exhausting" it is, they're overpaid and overpampered for doing such "exhausting" work.

[strandinthewind]

I don't care how "exhausting" it is, they're overpaid and overpampered for doing such "exhausting" work.

At least you now apparently concede it is exhausting :laugh: - which it is.

As for being overpaid - I think no one including you, wants that subjective test applied to them by others not making that kind of money.

[Jyqm]

Also, have you ever done anything like that? I have and it is exhausting,

Have you ever worked in a coal mine or a steel mill or an auto plant?

[dissention]

At least you now apparently concede it is exhausting :laugh: - which it is.

Your idea of "exhausting" is much different from mine, lemme tell ya.

As for being overpaid - I think no one including you, wants that subjective test applied to them by others not making that kind of money.

I'll be the judge of what I find to be overpaid. Even I'm overpaid compared to others; I'm not oblivious to it. You can use all the "subjective test" rhetoric that you want, but it doesn't change the fact that I find it abhorrent that public school teachers aren't even paid that yearly and these people get it for a couple days of "work" at the races. She mingled, had photos taken, shook hands, and doled out an award. Praise Jesus, let's give her enough cash to buy enough LaMer for a year.

[bikerchic]

At least you now apparently concede it is exhausting :laugh: - which it is.

:laugh: 72 hr. brain surgery separating conjoined twins is exhausting, the soldiers fighting in Iraq is exhausting, paramedics, 911 operators and air traffic controllers may be exhausted. There is quite a differance between pampered exhaustion and making life and death decisions exhaustion. :laugh:

[strandinthewind]

Your idea of "exhausting" is much different from mine, lemme tell ya.

Have you ever done such a thing?


I'll be the judge of what I find to be overpaid. Even I'm overpaid compared to others; I'm not oblivious to it. You can use all the "subjective test" rhetoric that you want, but it doesn't change the fact that I find it abhorrent that public school teachers aren't even paid that yearly and these people get it for a couple days of "work" at the races. She mingled, had photos taken, shook hands, and doled out an award. Praise Jesus, let's give her enough cash to buy enough LaMer for a year.

Such is life - now about that mark up on the Louis Kahn ottoman I wanted you to get for me :wavey:

[strandinthewind]

:laugh: 72 hr. brain surgery separating conjoined twins is exhausting, the soldiers fighting in Iraq is exhausting, paramedics, 911 operators and air traffic controllers may be exhausted. There is quite a differance between pampered exhaustion and making life and death decisions exhaustion. :laugh:

See - that is just it. No one is saying those are not also exhausting and probably more so. But, that does not make flying like 20 hours across the worls, three hours of make up and prep time, meet and greet all day long, and then the after stuff a joyride at 57.

Is it so beyond reason that it could be exhauting?

[Jyqm]

See - that is just it. No one is saying those are not also exhausting and probably more so. But, that does not make flying like 20 hours across the worls, three hours of make up and prep time, meet and greet all day long, and then the after stuff a joyride at 57.

Is it so beyond reason that it could be exhauting?

No, it just seems a bit disingenuous to complain that such a thing is exhausting when there are so many jobs out there that are actually backbreaking on a daily basis, particularly when the pay-off is $200,000 for one day of "work."

[strandinthewind]

No, it just seems a bit disingenuous to complain that such a thing is exhausting when there are so many jobs out there that are actually backbreaking on a daily basis, particularly when the pay-off is $200,000 for one day of "work."

Ummm - she was complaining - where was that?

Seriously, you all just cannot fathom getting paid that much and actually getting tired. I can assure you it happens as I have done that shiitte before and got paid WAY less than that.

Moreover, she did not get $200,000 - as noted about she will get like a 1/4 or 1/3 of that.

Interestingly, at what point does one earn the right to complain that the work is tiring. Do only manual laborers have that right? If she did this for free (which she may have done as none of us have seen her pay stub and this is free press at an event put on by I believe her promoter :shrug: ) - would she then have the right to say this is tiring, etc.

[Nicksluvver]

[QUOTE=dissention]As if I give two squirts of duck shit.



LMAO - That was funny! :laugh:

[Nicksluvver]

Ok - time for me to throw in my 2 cents. What Stevie is really getting paid in is TOUR PROMOTION. $50 - $70 Thou is alot of money to the average Joe, not to millionare rockstars. :D The big payoff is the Tour money/merchandising and it has been stated in most of the articles, she is launching a tour there. Its not relevant but did you know that Sharon Osbourne makes bands on the small stage during the day at Ozfest pay a :eek: 200,000 promotion fee to open for Ozzy on the Ozfest tours. Those bands don't make a dime. That Sharon , she really is something. Kiss charges 50,000, small potatoes compared to Sharon

[strandinthewind]

. . . Secondly, Jason just shut the f*ck up. You're the one who complained it is exhausting, you either need a f*cking dose of reality or you need to quit your habit of playing devil's advocate just for the sake of arguing. Nobody gives a shit if some celebrity was exhausted after Cup day and it really is insulting to read your crap on this matter but don't give me the usual "but you will never admit it". Don't give the shrugging smilie either. You're worse than many rich people the way you crap on about it, just take your first class flight to your fancy hotel in the destination of your choice while you kick off your name-brand shoes but shut up about it. I'm sick of reading it as I stare at my grafitti covered walls and count down my days til homelessness. I don't hate people who have money and an easy lifestyle at all but just stop the smug talking about it the way you do, it drives me f*cking crazy.

There, maybe you won't even read it but that one has been building after scanning threads over time. Now, get on your rags and go lay bricks all day in the hot sun for minimum wage, then complain that your day was exhausting.

Oh Lux - you've been gone so long and you came back just to attack me by telling me to shut the fu*k up. Is your self-described medication no longer working dear or have they let you out of the loony bin and I was first and foremost on your mind. Thanks for the consideration dear :shrug: :wavey:

[dissention]

Dayummmmmmm. She told you, boo. :lol:

[strandinthewind]

Dayummmmmmm. She told you, boo. :lol:

What can one expect from a hog but a grunt :shrug:

[Jyqm]

Moreover, she did not get $200,000 - as noted about she will get like a 1/4 or 1/3 of that.

Okay, so she makes $50,000 for one day of work, bare minimum. That's about the median annual income for a four-person family in about half a dozen states: http://www.census.gov/hhes/income/4person.html

Interestingly, at what point does one earn the right to complain that the work is tiring.

At the point that you're doing it every day because you have to to earn a living but the pay is barely worth it.

Do only manual laborers have that right? If she did this for free (which she may have done as none of us have seen her pay stub and this is free press at an event put on by I believe her promoter :shrug: ) - would she then have the right to say this is tiring, etc.

Yes. If she were doing it for free, I think she'd have every right to complain. Although then I would have to wonder why she did it at all...

Where exactly is the line where one is entitled to complain? I don't know. But it for damn sure ain't anywhere in the vicinity of $50,000 a day for a one-time promotional event.

[strandinthewind]

Thankyou for not considering my point that your smugness puts the extra sting in desperate situations but infering that my point is simply a result of insanity and further insulting with this implication.

I'm sorry about the aggression, as I read some of this place there's people I really dislike and you're not one of them. But you are so prominent and seemingly free to write as you wish without knowing how other people respond to what you're writing. I could have said it differently but my tendency to hold off then burst out in aggression, and your lack of willingness to be accountable for what you've said resulted in that post. Sorry.

Of course I like you as well. In fact, I like you a lot. Moreover, I highly respect your opinion and consider you one of the smartest people I know.

In the end, clearly getting that much money for going to a fab party and working the room is great work if you can get it. I was just responding to Diss' assertion that all she was doing was toasting champagne, which is not all she was doing - that was all I was saying.

[strandinthewind]

Ok I take the apology back. F*ck you and f*ck you again. Read my original post, just read what it said.

Now now - we are not to be sexual - just friends.

[dissention]

In the end, clearly getting that much money for going to a fab party and working the room is great work if you can get it.

So you admit that she's basically just going to a "fab party" and "working the room"?

I was just responding to Diss' assertion that all she was doing was toasting champagne, which is not all she was doing - that was all I was saying.

That's pretty much what she is doing; having her picture taken, toasting bubbly with rich peers, and doling out an award. For tens of thousands of dollars and numerous perks. What work! You then bring up a long plane ride and other such crap, as if we're supposed to sympathize with such exhaustion when she's got chilled champagne waiting for her when she lands. As our favorite biker chick so eloquently put it, if she's suffering from exhaustion, she's being pampered for every minute throughout.

[JazmenFlowers]

I'm not even getting into this one, but it strikes me funny cause I always have to go "hmm" when I hear Lindsay Lohan or Anna Nicole Smith hospitalized for exhaustion...I'm like, WTF? Exhausted who, what, when, where, how and to what extent...come live my life and let's see exhausted. Then again, I'm sure those laying bricks in the hot sun all day would say the same to me and I get it, I do. But seesly, how does this happen? :lol:

[Livia]

How much did Mick get appearing at Gelson's to hock his wine?

























:sorry:

[LeighB04]

Looking at the pics of her at the races (that can't be considered "Australian cowgirl, can it???), I'd say she needs the money to pay for her podiatrist - she's got the platform boots on again, instead of her orthopedic shoes, and that could be owie after an hour or so.....

[dissention]

How much did Mick get appearing at Gelson's to hock his wine?


Oh. My. Stars.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[JazmenFlowers]

I say, nice work, if you can get it.








ok, now I'm really not getting into it...

[Johnny Stew]

I have no doubt that travelling and schmoozing and smiling and posing for photographs all day can be "tiring" in its way. But, of course, that has to be kept in perspective.

And I think it's understandable for a celeb to say they're tired, just so long as they don't make it sound like they've got it rough or work harder than anyone else.

[strandinthewind]

. . . And I think it's understandable for a celeb to say they're tired, just so long as they don't make it sound like they've got it rough or work harder than anyone else.

Which no one was saying here :shrug:

[Johnny Stew]

Which no one was saying here :shrug:I was just qualifying my thought. :)

[sparky]

This is one of funniest threads in recent memory. Stevie never once said she was miserable or exhuasted. It appears she is having fun and it is clear it is part of her "job" to go there and promote the tour. She is doing interviews, getting her picture taken, getting all dolled up and the only person who said it was exhausting work was Strand.

It appears this is all about some kind of class and money disparity and how much hostility there is harbored for celebrities and the wealthy.

For the record, exhaustion is exhaustion. Sitting in a plane for over 5 hours makes me exhausted, grouchy, and miserable. First class or not. I don't like it. Being hounded and questioned by 100 people when I am dressed up and having to be nice is exhausting. It is claustrophobic and invasive. Sweating my ass off lifting heavy things in a hot filthy factory for 10 hours a day, six days a week is exhausting. It makes the body ache and the feet scream. I've done all these things.

The difference is, getting paid a lot of money to become exhausted and grouchy doesn't almost always come with the added bonus package of hopelessness and soul destruction. You make a lot of money for being exhausted and at least there is light at the end of the tunnel. You don't have to do it day after day without any indication that things will get better. It is not about different flavors of exhaustion, it is about what that exhaustion does to your mind, heart, and soul.

[sparky]

How much did Mick get appearing at Gelson's to hock his wine?

























:sorry:

You are awesome.

[Jyqm]

This is one of funniest threads in recent memory. Stevie never once said she was miserable or exhuasted. It appears she is having fun and it is clear it is part of her "job" to go there and promote the tour. She is doing interviews, getting her picture taken, getting all dolled up and the only person who said it was exhausting work was Strand.

It appears this is all about some kind of class and money disparity and how much hostility there is harbored for celebrities and the wealthy.

I thought it was about the bankruptcy of a culture that overpays and pampers their celebrities and then pities them for all the "hard work" they do in the process of becoming multi-millionaires. I mostly think it's despicable that the article that started this thread exists in the first place. I think that's largely what Diss was responding to as well, initially.

[sparky]

I thought it was about the bankruptcy of a culture that overpays and pampers their celebrities and then pities them for all the "hard work" they do in the process of becoming multi-millionaires. I mostly think it's despicable that the article that started this thread exists in the first place. I think that's largely what Diss was responding to as well, initially.

Perhaps it is despicable. At the same time, everyone who buys the music and the expensive concert tickets is complicit. The money doesn't appear out thin air. I can see both sides of it. It is just as myopic to say that wealth erases any difficulty in one's life as it is to say that being well paid and trotted out like a party trick is back breaking work.

I can only speak for myself but that holds no truth at all. It was the person smuggly stating their sympathies with the supposed exhaustion of such activities that caused hostility and for me contributed to some kind of offence.

I don't disagree with you, Lux. I am pointing out that I think there often is hostility shown to people who are wealthy or famous because they seemingly have less serious "problems" than others. The distinction between these kinds of "exhaustion" is apparent to me. What is funny is the brouhaha relevant to Stevie specifically - it is the theory applied to her when she never bitched about it being a burden. Not in print, and not in reference to this event anyway. I also find it comical that Strand is playing his usual role as defender of the wealthy and pampered.

[strandinthewind]

I was just qualifying my thought. :)

I know - I was agreeing with with, albeit badly :)

[strandinthewind]

This is one of funniest threads in recent memory. Stevie never once said she was miserable or exhuasted. It appears she is having fun and it is clear it is part of her "job" to go there and promote the tour. She is doing interviews, getting her picture taken, getting all dolled up and the only person who said it was exhausting work was Strand.

It appears this is all about some kind of class and money disparity and how much hostility there is harbored for celebrities and the wealthy.

For the record, exhaustion is exhaustion. Sitting in a plane for over 5 hours makes me exhausted, grouchy, and miserable. First class or not. I don't like it. Being hounded and questioned by 100 people when I am dressed up and having to be nice is exhausting. It is claustrophobic and invasive. Sweating my ass off lifting heavy things in a hot filthy factory for 10 hours a day, six days a week is exhausting. It makes the body ache and the feet scream. I've done all these things.

The difference is, getting paid a lot of money to become exhausted and grouchy doesn't almost always come with the added bonus package of hopelessness and soul destruction. You make a lot of money for being exhausted and at least there is light at the end of the tunnel. You don't have to do it day after day without any indication that things will get better. It is not about different flavors of exhaustion, it is about what that exhaustion does to your mind, heart, and soul.

Once again the voice of reason :xoxo:

But, I am sure you will get attacked as an elitist with no concept of anything in a morally bankrupt society :laugh: I mean of all the reasons to call you morally bankrupt . . . . :angel:

[strandinthewind]

Yeah, we got that bit. So the fact that this was recognised and Strand was the one people were (or atleast I was) complaining about/to was the funny bit?

I can only speak for myself but that holds no truth at all. It was the person smuggly stating their sympathies with the supposed exhaustion of such activities that caused hostility and for me contributed to some kind of offence.

Well, the interesting thing is I never said she was not hugely compensated for it. I merely commented on Diss' statement that all she was doing was toasting with a glass of bubbly. I tried to point out that her appearance at this event is more than that, it is the sum of a lot of hard work over a period of days and that work, based on my personal experience, can be exhausting. But, people took that to mean that if she got paid, it was too much money for her to complain, which she never has to my recollection.

[dissention]

Well, the interesting thing is I never said she was not hugely compensated for it. I merely commented on Diss' statement that all she was doing was toasting with a glass of bubbly. I tried to point out that her appearance at this event is more than that, it is the sum of a lot of hard work over a period of days and that work, based on my personal experience, can be exhausting. But, people took that to mean that if she got paid, it was too much money for her to complain, which she never has to my recollection.

No, you were jumping to the defense of the wealthy, per usual, because you apparently seem to feel personally slighted every time something is said about them. Same old shit, different day. But I still love you. :xoxo:

[strandinthewind]

No, you were jumping to the defense of the wealthy, per usual, because you apparently seem to feel personally slighted every time something is said about them. Same old shit, different day. But I still love you. :xoxo:

No, I said the work could be exhausting as I have done similar things and know what it feels like. Please show me where I said anything to the contrary or defended the wealthy in any way.

Again, you apparently cannot fathom that anyone getting paid that much could possibly be tired because all they are doing is going to a party, which is just wrong and you know it.

But, such is life.

[dissention]

No, I said the work could be exhausting as I have done similar things and know what it feels like. Please show me where I said anything to the contrary or defended the wealthy in any way.

Again, you apparently cannot fathom that anyone getting paid that much could possibly be tired because all they are doing is going to a party, which is just wrong and you know it.

But, such is life.

Spin spin spin.

You didn't bring up your "exhaustion" shit until later on. You initially argued "Oh, but she doesn't pocket all that money, she only gets $75,000." After that, you took issue with my saying that her and Longoria were getting paid to be pampered at a race, which they are, and brought up all of your "Oh, it's so utterly exhausting" lines.

[strandinthewind]

Spin spin spin.

You didn't bring up your "exhaustion" shit until later on. You initially argued "Oh, but she doesn't pocket all that money, she only gets $75,000." After that, you took issue with my saying that her and Longoria were getting paid to be pampered at a race, which they are, and brought up all of your "Oh, it's so utterly exhausting" lines.

I merely mentioned she was not getting the entire $250,000 as you implied. I never said that was not a lot of money or anything like that. If so, let's see it.

But, bash away Sister Agnes.

[dissention]

But, bash away Sister Agnes.

Will do. Continue defending the rich against such heathens like myself, it's what you do best. :xoxo:

[Jyqm]

Perhaps it is despicable. At the same time, everyone who buys the music and the expensive concert tickets is complicit.

Buying a CD for $15, for which the artists gets paid a small fraction, isn't exactly throwing mountains of cash at these musicians. But I'm with you on the concert tickets, and I, for one, would never in a million years go to a Stevie Nicks concert at the prices she's currently charging. I think it's pretty disgusting, but then hey, her diehards are more than willing to pay it, and she's obviously not concerned with bringing in new fans, so why not. I don't think the rosy-glasses-wearing chiffonhead crowd would especially care for it if I start ripping into Stevie on that front, though. I might be expelled from the board.

It is just as myopic to say that wealth erases any difficulty in one's life as it is to say that being well paid and trotted out like a party trick is back breaking work.

Agreed. And I don't think anyone here is saying that wealthy people don't have any problems or difficulties in their lives - just that being paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to show your face around an all-day party isn't one of them.

[strandinthewind]

Will do. Continue defending the rich against such heathens like myself, it's what you do best. :xoxo:

Only when they, or anyone, are doing work which can exhaust them and Commies like you burst out with your usual the rich have no probs shiite :laugh:

[dissention]

Only when they, or anyone, are doing work which can exhaust them and Commies like you burst out with your usual the rich have no probs shiite :laugh:

Being exhausted at one long, giant party is not my definition of a "problem," especially when they're getting lucrative perks, promotion, and cash to be there.

[strandinthewind]

. . . Agreed. And I don't think anyone here is saying that wealthy people don't have any problems or difficulties in their lives - just that being paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to show your face around an all-day party isn't one of them.

So, the work cannot be exhausting (which is all I was saying) - you know this how?

[sparky]

Buying a CD for $15, for which the artists gets paid a small fraction, isn't exactly throwing mountains of cash at these musicians. But I'm with you on the concert tickets, and I, for one, would never in a million years go to a Stevie Nicks concert at the prices she's currently charging. I think it's pretty disgusting, but then hey, her diehards are more than willing to pay it, and she's obviously not concerned with bringing in new fans, so why not. I don't think the rosy-glasses-wearing chiffonhead crowd would especially care for it if I start ripping into Stevie on that front, though. I might be expelled from the board.

That would actually be an interesting discussion and btw you would most certainly not be expelled. Have you read the vicious things some of us say about the songs we don't like ?:laugh: It does give some the vapors, but everyone gets over it.

The bottom line is that those fees are market driven.

Agreed. And I don't think anyone here is saying that wealthy people don't have any problems or difficulties in their lives - just that being paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to show your face around an all-day party isn't one of them.

Well, jet lag and acne from expensive makeup are certainly high class problems.

Nonetheless, there is a tone frequently that implies that being rich and famous is...let's just say that no matter what tragedies a rich and famous person has in their lives, there will always be people who will say, "Must be rough in your mansion. Tough life."

[dissention]

I never said anything to the contrary :shrug:

Oh no?

Only when they, or anyone, are doing work which can exhaust them and Commies like you burst out with your usual the rich have no probs shiite

So, you implied one of two things: that being tired at one big party that they're being paid to attend is a problem for them, or that I said the rich have "no problems," which I never said. Take your pick, babe.

[strandinthewind]

Oh no?



So, you implied one of two things: that being tired at one big party that they're being paid to attend is a problem for them, or that I said the rich have "no problems," which I never said. Take your pick, babe.

LOL - are you drinking :laugh:

[Ghost_Tracker]

Well, all I know is that Stevie just got paid 200 grand for going
on a date with a rich guy she's attracted to while getting to play Dress
Up and have fun doing something new all day while sitting on her butt.
Rock ON, Stevie! :lol:

"You're fast, you're the winner...
(Long-Distance Winner."

GOD that fascinates me! . . . . ;)

[strandinthewind]

. . . I think it's pretty disgusting, but then hey, her diehards are more than willing to pay it, and she's obviously not concerned with bringing in new fans, so why not. I don't think the rosy-glasses-wearing chiffonhead crowd would especially care for it if I start ripping into Stevie on that front, though. I might be expelled from the board . . . .

Then don't buy a ticket. I mean why would you begruge someone who wants to pay that to see her. Me thinks you have control issues :laugh:

In the future, should we all PM you for permission before buying anything over $5.00 :laugh: (obvious levity)

and - BTW - it is not just the chiffonheads dear - it is FM fans as well unless you did not see the prices for The Dance and SYW :wavey:

[strandinthewind]

. . . On the other point, the one I was addressing, Jason you are an elitest, that is the problem. That is the difference between simply having money and name-dropping or making wealthy lifestyles relevant to yourself in every other comment. Please please do not "but you simply won't admit" or shoulder-shrug smilie me. Just accept that it is annoying, it's other things too but I'll leave it at that because "you'll never admit to this".

You have no concept of my life and the good I do for many who have nothing, which I rarely discuss on here. Thus, your assumption is incorrect.

But, you cannot stand to have any other perception of me :shrug:

[dissention]

Jason you are an elitest, that is the problem.

You hit the nail on the head. He throws around that term with such ease when it comes to others, but fails to recognize it when it comes to his own damn self.

[strandinthewind]

You hit the nail on the head. He throws around that term with such ease when it comes to others, but fails to recognize it when it comes to his own damn self.

Excuse me - pot kettle black :laugh:

You rip people to shreds hourly for not living up to your insane version of what they should be, their horrid taste in clothing, bad hair, etc. And I am the elitist :laugh:

Also, I readily admit I live a life most cannot comprehend. Yet, I give so much of my time to help those who cannot help themselves and I am pretty sure you know that. But, all you all can see is the bad - that is so unsurprising considering, again, your propensity to rip everyone to shreds.

[amber]

You have no concept of my life and the good I do for many who have nothing, which I rarely discuss on here. Thus, your assumption is incorrect.

But, you cannot stand to have any other perception of me :shrug:

Why do you talk all about your rich things, but not about those things? :confused: Wasn't she referring to you name dropping and making wealthy lifestyles relevant to yourself in every other comment? So, she wasn't dissing your actual life, it seems, or what you do in your life, but saying that the way you talk about it here is annoying. Is that right?
In which case your comment didn't really address what she was saying.

Anyway, I actually don't want to talk about the argument part of this at all, just trying to sort it out.

[dissention]

LOL - are you drinking :laugh:

No, I'm not drunk, I'm trying to make sense of what you're trying to say.

[amber]

Also, I readily admit I live a life most cannot comprehend. Yet, I give so much of my time to help those who cannot help themselves and I am pretty sure you know that. But, all you all can see is the bad - that is so unsurprising considering, again, your propensity to rip everyone to shreds.

Yeah, again, I think their point is the way you talk about it, not what you actually do. :shrug:

[strandinthewind]

Yeah, again, I think their point is the way you talk about it, not what you actually do. :shrug:

I am a little confused. Most of the time I am clearly joking. Like when I told David to go and buy Prada in some other thread awhile back. I am pretty sure I also mentioned that I often shop at Marshall's and buy the marked down stuff. Yet, all anyone remembers is the Prada, which I also have - and I suspect many on here have nice things as well that they have talked about. So, I am not the only one doing it and those other people doing it are clearly joking as well.

But, whatever. I guess you all see me as a horrible braggart who needs to be shunned. So be it. I hope it makes you all feel superior.

[dissention]

Excuse me - pot kettle black :laugh:

You rip people to shreds hourly for not living up to your insane version of what they should be, their horrid taste in clothing, bad hair, etc. And I am the elitist :laugh:

And how many times have you called me an elitist? Talk about pot calling the kettle black. Give me a fucking break, you're one yourself. Your inability to admit it is what really drives me bonkers, as does your constant running to the aid of a rich person who's criticized for anything. If one discusses how the rich elite of our country consistently keep the poor down in order to maintain their wealth, you bust out with statistics and numbers that show how much the rich have donated to help the poor, as if it somehow erases the very problem that they're a part of AND help to perpetuate. It's absurd.

Also, I readily admit I live a life most cannot comprehend. Yet, I give so much of my time to help those who cannot help themselves and I am pretty sure you know that.

You use that line as if it somehow prevents you from being an elitist. That's laughable. You know that I I devote my time and money to helping others, too, but I sure as shit wouldn't point at it in an attempt to say that I'm not an elitist to some degree, because I am. But at least I can admit it.

[strandinthewind]

And how many times have you called me an elitist? Talk about pot calling the kettle black. Give me a fucking break, you're one yourself. Your inability to admit it is what really drives me bonkers, as does your constant running to the aid of a rich person who's criticized for anything. If one discusses how the rich elite of our country consistently keep the poor down in order to maintain their wealth, you bust out with statistics and numbers that show how much the rich have donated to help the poor, as if it somehow erases the very problem that they're a part of AND help to perpetuate. It's absurd.



You use that line as if it somehow prevents you from being an elitist. That's laughable. You know that I I devote my time and money to helping others, too, but I sure as shit wouldn't point at it in an attempt to say that I'm not an elitist to some degree, because I am. But at least I can admit it.

Of course I am an elitist to some degree - almost everyone is in some fashion.

But, you constantly attack all of the rich and lump them into this one big uncaring mass of snobbery, which is just untrue and you know it because the data I cited demonstrates you are wrong.

[dissention]

But, you constantly attack all of the rich and lump them into this one big uncaring mass of snobbery, which is just untrue and you know it because the data I cited demonstrates you are wrong.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[amber]

I am a little confused. Most of the time I am clearly joking. Like when I told David to go and buy Prada in some other thread awhile back. I am pretty sure I also mentioned that I often shop at Marshall's and buy the marked down stuff. Yet, all anyone remembers is the Prada, which I also have - and I suspect many on here have nice things as well that they have talked about. So, I am not the only one doing it and those other people doing it are clearly joking as well.

But, whatever. I guess you all see me as a horrible braggart who needs to be shunned. So be it. I hope it makes you all feel superior.

Well, I don't know about all that, that's just what I thought she meant. So, I was clarifying, or trying to.
Uh, I don't feel superior. I feel broke. But again, I was not directly commenting on you, just trying to keep the ol' answer/response in line.
Oh, and I'm not drinking, either. Though, I might soon be eating a giant burger, which could impair my judgement I suppose.

[amber]

Of course I am an elitist to some degree - almost everyone is in some fashion.


That's true. You both have facets of elitism that make me sick, truth be told. Some kind of snobbery runs all throughout both of you in quite a large portion.
:laugh:

[Jyqm]

That would actually be an interesting discussion and btw you would most certainly not be expelled. Have you read the vicious things some of us say about the songs we don't like ?:laugh: It does give some the vapors, but everyone gets over it.

It might be amusing to see some of the justifications certain chiffonheads come up with to defend her prices, anyway.

The bottom line is that those fees are market driven.

Absolutely true, and Stevie has every right to charge whatever she wants. But that doesn't make it decent, and it doesn't mean Stevie wouldn't be a better and more respectable artist if she lowered her current prices. I expect more from the musicians whose music I like than a relentless drive to maximize profits.

[strandinthewind]

Amber is exactly right. I am not interested in discussing your lifestyle. I am referring to what you speak of here for us to read and the manner in which you do. For all I know some posters here have driven Jaguars their whole life but that does not aggrivate me. As Amber said I'm not referring to your life, I'm referring to your comments and they are elitest and in the least make reading them depressing for some who try not to feel unhappy as they stand in the government benefits line wearing the same holey $20 shoes and $5 shirt they've worn every day of the year. Can you just for once not spew your defences back and actually own your comments? I'm being honest and telling you how they come across, can you consider your readers and that what I'm saying is true, if only for one person but I suspect for more.

Then thank you for your opinion.

[Jyqm]

Then don't buy a ticket.

I don't. Did I not just say that?

I mean why would you begruge someone who wants to pay that to see her.

I don't. Where did I say that I did?

[Jyqm]

So, the work cannot be exhausting (which is all I was saying) - you know this how?

Where did I say that the "work" cannot be exhausting?

[strandinthewind]

Where did I say that the "work" cannot be exhausting?

Then we agree :wavey:

[Jyqm]

Then we agree :wavey:

If that's what's important to you, sure.

[strandinthewind]

If that's what's important to you, sure.

LOL - nice

[gldstwmn]

Praise Jesus, let's give her enough cash to buy enough LaMer for a year.

That's only like, $1200. :lol:

[gldstwmn]

have they let you out of the loony bin and I was first and foremost on your mind.

Oh, come on.:distress:

[dissention]

That's only like, $1200. :lol:

I don't know, I've never bought it. :laugh:

[sparky]

I don't know, I've never bought it. :laugh:

There is an anti aging beauty product you haven't bought ?

[strandinthewind]

On My - discussing all that money a year for face cream.

Please be warned that any discussion of such a trivial thing will be offensive to some who cannot afford such things, even though you proffer this banter in jest.

Just trying to be of help lest you did not know that.

Or, maybe it is just when I discuss it that people take up arms.

[gldstwmn]

I'm not even getting into this one, but it strikes me funny cause I always have to go "hmm" when I hear Lindsay Lohan or Anna Nicole Smith hospitalized for exhaustion...I'm like, WTF?

It's a euphemism for drying out and cleaning up.

[gldstwmn]

How much did Mick get appearing at Gelson's to hock his wine?

He got some wine. :lol:

[gldstwmn]

There is an anti aging beauty product you haven't bought ?

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[gldstwmn]

On My - discussing all that money a year for face cream.

Please be warned that any discussion of such a trivial thing will be offensive to some who cannot afford such things, even though you proffer this banter in jest.

Just trying to be of help lest you did not know that.

Or, maybe it is just when I discuss it that people take up arms.

I think you need a nap, Suzanne. :rolleyes:

[Johnny Stew]

I don't think the rosy-glasses-wearing chiffonhead crowd would especially care for it if I start ripping into Stevie on that front, though. I might be expelled from the board.Other than Mick, Stevie's the only member of Fleetwood Mac that you can get away with ripping here on a regular basis.

[strandinthewind]

I think you need a nap, Suzanne. :rolleyes:

Well, they got all over me for it :shrug:

So, I just wanted every other braggart on the board to know that because they seemingly are too meek to tell anyone but me.

[amber]

Well, they got all over me for it :shrug:

So, I just wanted every other braggart on the board to know that because they seemingly are too meek to tell anyone but me.

who are the other ones? that talk about their fab lifestyle and defend the wealthy viewpoint in the same volume as you, so consistently?:confused:

Again, I don't care right now, I just hate to watch you spin.:laugh: :xoxo:

[strandinthewind]

who are the other ones? that talk about their fab lifestyle and defend the wealthy viewpoint in the same volume as you, so consistently?:confused:

Again, I don't care right now, I just hate to watch you spin.:laugh: :xoxo:

hmmm - when Tower referred to going to Vegas - he said he was staying in CP and getting a limo to and from the airport - not to mention his recent Hawiian trip.

Sparky often discusses his wardrobe, expensive taste in Tequila, and that he has rental property in LA

Pip ( I think ) posted several pics of her new car.

Diss has a $500 dog

ummm - how many people posted about spending how much on front row tickets?

should I go on?

In the end, I think you all are just gunning for me and it pisses me off. If that was your goal, you got it.

Note - I begrudge none of these people any of this. I just think you are a hypocrite for getting only on me about it, esp. when I do not always live that way and you damn well know it.

Also, little Ms. I am allowed to sit in self-righteous judgement on you Jason

You went to Vegas for how many days. Doesn't your bragging about that fall in the same boat as me? Or is it okay when you do it and mention it, but if I do the same I am an a$$hole.

Finally, and listen carefully this time - I do not defend the wealthy. I am sure many of the wealthy, poor, and medium incomne people of the world are jerks. All I have ever done is say that saying "all" people in any class are good or bad is wrong and that the numbers show really rich people donate. Is that too hard for you to comprehend? But, feel free to show me some quotes of mine where I said any differently.

[Nicksluvver]

hmmm - when Tower referred to going to Vegas - he said he was staying in CP and getting a limo to and from the airport - not to mention his recent Hawiian trip.

Sparky often discusses his wardrobe, expensive taste in Tequila, and that he has rental property in LA

Pip ( I think ) posted several pics of her new car.

Diss has a $500 dog

should I go on?

In the end, I think you all are just gunning for me and it pisses me off. If that was your goal, you got it.

Note - I begrudge none of these people any of this. I just think you are a hypocrite for getting only on me about it, esp. when I do not always live that way and you damn well know it.

Also, little Ms. I am allowed to sit in self-righteous judgement on you Jason

You went to Vegas for how many days. Doesn't your bragging about that fall in the same boat as me? Or is it okay when you do it and mention it, but if I do the same I am an a$$hole.

I tell you what Strand, many times I have felt gunned after too by quite a few ledgies on here because they dont agree with my views. Tough S##T on them its a free country and everyone is entitled to what they earn and believe. I try not to engage in their crap, although occasionally I get sucked in! :distress: People need to remember that we are Stevie/Fm fans, lets try to get along. :)

[amber]

hmmm - when Tower referred to going to Vegas - he said he was staying in CP and getting a limo to and from the airport.

Sparky often discusses his wardrobe, expensive taste in Tequila, and that he has rental property in LA

Pip ( I think ) posted several pics of her new car.

Diss has a $500 dog

should I go on?

In the end, I think you all are just gunning for me and it pisses me off. If that was your goal, you got it.

Well, they don't do it as much. But again, I don't care. Or if I do, not really. Here's how I look at it: Diss usually talks in a certain way, Ryan usually talks in a certain way, Hillary usually talks in a certain way, Towie usually talks in a certain way, Sparky usually talks in a certain way, Lux usually talks in a certain way, Amber is perfectly original and fresh with every statement she makes, Brn Eyes usually talks in a certain way...
You just talk in a certain way. And why should you feel any less entitled to talk about your life than anyone else on here, just because it is different, or more, or whatever. I mean, people don't usually call me out for being poor.
It may not be fair for you to be called out. Although everyone can say what they want, and you responded, and whatever.
So - that's my point with that. Sure, sometimes I could be a bit jealous, but since I like you and everyone else I try not to be bitter about it. For instance, it's not your fault that I have less than you.

However, I do regularly take issue with you defending other wealthy people for various reasons. Usually just the same reasons as I would take issue with if anyone else did it. But that is because I think that in some cases you are misinformed about how some economic things really work. But that's the same argument I would have with any republican - it is political, not personal.
I'm sorry if I had a part in hurting your feelings. And this is just my opinion. And I'm not saying anyone else didn't have a point. In fact, in this post, I'm not addressing anyone else's point at all, just giving you mine.
:xoxo:

[amber]

Also, little Ms. I am allowed to sit in self-righteous judgement on you Jason

You went to Vegas for how many days. Doesn't your bragging about that fall in the same boat as me? Or is it okay when you do it and mention it, but if I do the same I am an a$$hole.

.
Whoa, dude!!! If you read back, I didn't judge you. I just sought to clarify other people's points, and just now called you for spinning. half jokingly, too. Just the spin, not the subject of the spin. :shrug:
So, just like I didn't offer an opinion before, I'm not offering one now on my bragging, and not being called out, and and how everyone was unfair to you. I can't speak as to all that, and I won't.

[Johnny Stew]

Here's how I look at it: Diss usually talks in a certain way, Ryan.... Hillary.... Towie.... Sparky.... Lux.... Brn Eyes.... Not a single mention of your big brother?
I'm disappointed in you, Joe Hardy. :distress: ;)

[amber]

Not a single mention of your big brother?
I'm disappointed in you, Joe Hardy. :distress: ;)
Oh, we solve mysteries together, live together, and now I have to talk about you, too?!:laugh:
:xoxo:
sorry, Johnny Stew always talks in a certain way....

[Johnny Stew]

Oh, we solve mysteries together, live together, and now I have to talk about you, too?!:laugh:
:xoxo:
sorry, Johnny Stew always talks in a certain way....Thank you! :D :xoxo: ;)

By the way, Joe, when I have a tie hung around my doorknob, that means I've got someone in there with me... so stop busting in, yelling, "we have a mystery to solve!"
I'm already trying to solve the Mystery Of The Buried Bone. :p

[ontheEdgeof17]

I'm already trying to solve the Mystery Of The Buried Bone. :p

Check your ass.

[amber]

Thank you! :D :xoxo: ;)

By the way, Joe, when I have a tie hung around my doorknob, that means I've got someone in there with me... so stop busting in, yelling, "we have a mystery to solve!"
I'm already trying to solve the Mystery Of The Buried Bone. :p

:lol:
I'm just glad I'm not the gay one. I'll be in my room banging Nancy Drew. :cool:
Oh, and Chet called - you left your underwear in the back seat of his jalopy...

[Johnny Stew]

Check your ass.I'm a pitcher. :cool:

[Johnny Stew]

Oh, and Chet called - you left your underwear in the back seat of his jalopy...Ha! The joke's on you, because those can't be mine -- I don't wear underwear! :p

Wait a minute! That means Chet's two-timing me!
That fat bastard! :mad:

[amber]

Ha! The joke's on you, because those can't be mine -- I don't wear underwear! :p

Wait a minute! That means Chet's two-timing me!
That fat bastard! :mad:

:lol:
"fat bastard"
Yep - looks like Chet is working on "The Mystery of Pirates Gaping Cove"
although, I will knuckle box you to get the front seat next time. To the death.

[BTFLCHLD]

can you consider your readers and that what I'm saying is true, if only for one person but I suspect for more. ive been coming here for a while now
ive never thought strand was bragging about himself or what he has
if anything ive read more of what he does for others
these are my observations

[Ghost_Tracker]

Could someone please draw me a map from an article about getting
paid 200 grand to throw on the pile for sitting in a chair and looking
pretty, to here? I'm SO lost you wouldn't believe it.
Seriously. . . . My Onstar went bust and I'm in the deep woods here.
I think I need t- - wait what's that NOISE!? Is any one THERE??
Hello? . . . . .
I want my Mom!
mmmmMMMMMMMMMOOOOOMMMMM-IIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!! :rolleyes:

[strandinthewind]

ive been coming here for a while now
ive never thought strand was bragging about himself or what he has
if anything ive read more of what he does for others
these are my observations

Thank you!!!!!

Nicksluvver as well!!!

[sparky]

Check your ass.

You have been exceptionally funny and bitchy of late, Mister. And I, for one, am enjoying the hell out of it.:wavey:

[Ghost_Tracker]

I don't care how "exhausting" it is, they're overpaid and overpampered for doing such "exhausting" work.



Well, this is just opinion, but just to defend our Poor Defenseless Heroine
a little bit -
she's not being paid for this.
Being "paid" is something that happens to people who are working.
Stevie, for example, could get paid for appearing on a Sheryl Crow album.
This is a business transaction in which she makes a profit for making
a bigger and badder "fish" an even BIGGER profit.
Katie Couric, for example, god bless her heart, has never been "Paid"
for doing the news. ( Not recently, I mean. )
The General Electric Corporation wrote her a check
for a total of about a hundred million dollars because she caused them
to sell billions of dollars of advertising revenues to GM, GE and Ford.
After working as a waitress for at least SOME measure of time,
I'm sure that Stevie understands the difference between working for
a living, and a good Business Transaction.

"Out in the night . . .
glaring eyes in darkness,
I just want to fight.
Out in the night,
spiders all around you,
spinning webs that make you prey
Tie you up, and you can't get away . . .

Bad boys running wild
If you don't play along with their games . . .
Bad boys running wild . . .
and you better get out of their way." - but -

"There is no dream
That you can't make true,
(if you're looking for love...)"

[dissention]

Well, this is just opinion, but just to defend our Poor Defenseless Heroine
a little bit -
she's not being paid for this.
Being "paid" is something that happens to people who are working.
Stevie, for example, could get paid for appearing on a Sheryl Crow album.
This is a business transaction in which she makes a profit for making
a bigger and badder "fish" an even BIGGER profit.
Katie Couric, for example, god bless her heart, has never been "Paid"
for doing the news. ( Not recently, I mean. )
The General Electric Corporation wrote her a check
for a total of about a hundred million dollars because she caused them
to sell billions of dollars of advertising revenues to GM, GE and Ford.
After working as a waitress for at least SOME measure of time,
I'm sure that Stevie understands the difference between working for
a living, and a good Business Transaction.

What do you spike your Kool-Aid with, possums? It isn't often that words truly fail me. I've always got a remark for something and I'm sure many would agree. But I can state with all honesty, and with a straight face, that at this particular moment, I've got nothing. Maybe it's for the best.

[Jyqm]

Other than Mick, Stevie's the only member of Fleetwood Mac that you can get away with ripping here on a regular basis.

What about poor Jeremy?

Actually, I think most members of Fleetwood Mac seem to be fair game for legitimate complaints. Except Becka and Billy. If you say anything bad about them, you've got MacDougall and chiliD on your ass telling you you just didn't listen to Time hard enough because you're not a real fan and couldn't stomach the idea of the bad without Stevie.

[ELIUD]

What do you spike your Kool-Aid with, possums? It isn't often that words truly fail me. I've always got a remark for something and I'm sure many would agree. But I can state with all honesty, and with a straight face, that at this particular moment, I've got nothing. Maybe it's for the best.
Don't bother addressing Ghost_Tracker's last post. Remember she was the one that said Stevie was dying of grief over her dad's death so we wouldn't say anything bad about her anymore.

[DavidMn]

Of course I don't, but that doesn't mean that I don't get disgusted by the ways some people treat money sometimes. Heaven forbid if I find it silly that Ms. Stevie and Miss Longoria have their already rich asses pampered even more just for going to a bloody race.Hey its all good. You see the world a little different than someone else does. No big deal.:nod:

[David]

Actually, I think most members of Fleetwood Mac seem to be fair game for legitimate complaints.Yeah, I ream them all & make no apologies -- even if I ream some a lot more than others. I never promised I was an equal opportunity reamer.

[skcin]

Hey! Lux is back! :blob1: :blob1: :blob1:

You know she just LOVES emoticons. :)

[strandinthewind]

Hey! Lux is back! :blob1: :blob1: :blob1:

You know she just LOVES emoticons. :)

Let's just all give her one big

:wavey: :wavey: :wavey: :wavey: :wavey:

I think she'll like it :shrug:

WE LOVE YOU LUX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Ghost_Tracker]

Don't bother addressing Ghost_Tracker's last post. Remember she was the one that said Stevie was dying of grief over her dad's death so we wouldn't say anything bad about her anymore.


See attachments, and it's "he," by the way.
What had bothered me was when someone called her
a "pig" at that time.
Somehow that seemed a little insensitive to me.

http://groups.msn.com/AngelsGypsysSarasRhiannonsofStevieNicksfans/jessnickstribute.msnw

[Johnny Stew]

What about poor Jeremy?I might have little use for Jere (outside of a song here and there), but I don't type out constant criticisms of him. And I really don't notice many other people criticising him on a regular basis either.

But I know where you're coming from. :)

Actually, I think most members of Fleetwood Mac seem to be fair game for legitimate complaints.As David has rightly pointed out in the past... and it's something that I really hadn't considered up to that point... the seemingly disproportionate amount of "Stevie ripping," is largely due to the fact that she's also discussed a whole hell of a lot more than any of the band members.

But try criticizing Christine on her forum sometime to the degree that Stevie is, and see how well that goes over! ;) :laugh:
(Then again, if you value your life, you might not want to.)

[ELIUD]

See attachments, and it's "he," by the way.
What had bothered me was when someone called her
a "pig" at that time.
Somehow that seemed a little insensitive to me.

http://groups.msn.com/AngelsGypsysSarasRhiannonsofStevieNicksfans/jessnickstribute.msnw


Sorry Ghost. Don't mean to pile up on you so bad. But that "Katie Couric not getting paid to read the news" comment was a bit out there. And thanks for clearing up your gender - I was just taking a guess.

[Jyqm]

As David has rightly pointed out in the past... and it's something that I really hadn't considered up to that point... the seemingly disproportionate amount of "Stevie ripping," is largely due to the fact that she's also discussed a whole hell of a lot more than any of the band members.

I think that's partly right. The disproportionate amount of Stevie ripping is not just due to the fact that she's discussed more than other band members, but that she's completely fawned over by some people. If somebody makes an even slightly negative comment about her, there are a few people who will immediately jump to her defense and justify her every action and silly hat. Which only spurs the people who made the original complaint to take it that much further.

I think in the end it just comes down to trying to find a balanced overall tone. If I were in a group of people who didn't really care for Stevie or hadn't heard much of her music, I'd be talking her up. Here, if it seems like I or others constantly insult her or take her to task for various things, it's only because so many others never do. Somebody offers up the hyperbole, "You'd give her a standing ovation if she came out on stage and farted the word 'Rhiannon,'" and there are people who actually respond with or imply, "You got me there! I sure would!" So I think it's important to have at least a few people who are willing to take Stevie task on things like uninspired performances/setlists, or claiming not to have written any songs in a year and a half, if only to keep this place from tumbling completely into goddess worship, with everybody falling all over themselves to justify the woman by saying, "Oh well, you know, if you diagram her sentences you'll see they actually aren't contradictory, I'm sure she just meant that she was only writing in her journal, but you know how she likes to be mysterious, don't you just love her! I sure am glad that I can buy that new repackaging of old material, I hope it has a picture in it of Stevie in a new dress!"

EDIT: Also, re criticism of Jeremy: Of course you're not going to see that much of it, because the guy isn't really out there in the public eye making or performing music. There's nothing new either to criticize or to praise.

[BTFLCHLD]

.

hows this for a typical response
"you are the devil"

:lol:

[David]

But try criticizing Christine on her forum sometime to the degree that Stevie is, and see how well that goes over! ;) :laugh:I tried that once or twice & they chewed my ass & spit out the gristle.

[Johnny Stew]

I think that's partly right. The disproportionate amount of Stevie ripping is not just due to the fact that she's discussed more than other band members, but that she's completely fawned over by some people. If somebody makes an even slightly negative comment about her, there are a few people who will immediately jump to her defense and justify her every action and silly hat. Which only spurs the people who made the original complaint to take it that much further.I'm not saying you're right or wrong... all I've ever tried to point out is the fact that Stevie fans are not the only ones who defend their favorite artist.
Go rip into Christine... rip into Lindsey... see how big it goes over on their forums. Their biggest fans are every bit as devoted and rabid as Stevie's fans, as well they should be. But folks act as if "chiffonheads" are the lone guilty party.

And I guess I just don't understand the "if you defend Stevie, then I'm going to say something even nastier next time" escalation game.

I'm not looking for sycophancy... there's a reason why I'm on the Ledge, and not someplace like the official Mac board... but, wow, we often can't even have a song appreciation thread here anymore, without at least a half dozen people saying why that song sucks.

[Jyqm]

I'm not saying you're right or wrong... all I've ever tried to point out is the fact that Stevie fans are not the only ones who defend their favorite artist.
Go rip into Christine... rip into Lindsey... see how big it goes over on their forums.

If they do or say something I don't like, I will. I did start a whole thread about hating "Don't Stop" a few weeks ago. I also dared not to be totally enamored of "Shut Us Down."

And I guess I just don't understand the "if you defend Stevie, then I'm going to say something even nastier next time" escalation game.

I don't think it's "if you defend Stevie," it's "if you defend Stevie for something stupid and not really defensible."

but, wow, we often can't even have a song appreciation thread here anymore, without at least a half dozen people saying why that song sucks.

Stevie's got a pretty hit-or-miss catalogue, and not everybody's going to like the same songs, especially when you're going one by one through the tracklisting for Street Angel.

[Serrart]

Well, we buy their records, watch their shows, their movies and some of them go over their role in music, cinema, etc and become symbols or simply trendy. People buy tabloids or cheap magazines to read about their last unfaithful relationship or the supposed plastic surgery they had: people get with their noses stuck at their windows watching inside their lives, and as every show that has to be paid as well.

Romy

[Johnny Stew]

If they do or say something I don't like, I will. I did start a whole thread about hating "Don't Stop" a few weeks ago.Try that out on Christine's forum rather than on the safety of the Rumours Forum. ;)

I also dared not to be totally enamored of "Shut Us Down."And, as I recall, a lot of people defended it also, and expounded on why it's one of the best songs he's released in years.

I don't think it's "if you defend Stevie," it's "if you defend Stevie for something stupid and not really defensible."If someone were defending Stevie for molesting a child or physically/verbally abusing someone, then I'd be worried. But as it is, I don't see Stevie's fans defending her in any way that's different from the way in which other fans defend their favorite artists. Yet, God forbid if you forget to constantly remind people of all the things you can't stand about her.

[ontheEdgeof17]

Try that out on Christine's forum rather than on the safety of the Rumours Forum. ;)

Yes. They would be shocked someone actually posted in their forum.

[dissention]

And, as I recall, a lot of people defended it also, and expounded on why it's one of the best songs he's released in years.


Hopped up on weed and Wheat Thins, they were.

[gldstwmn]

Hopped up on weed and Wheat Thins, they were.

Or whatever Ashlee Simpson was on at McDonalds the other night. :laugh:

[Jyqm]

Try that out on Christine's forum rather than on the safety of the Rumours Forum. ;)

Are there people who read only the Christine forum and not the Rumours forum? Are there people who read the Christine forum?

And, as I recall, a lot of people defended it also, and expounded on why it's one of the best songs he's released in years.

Right. So?

But as it is, I don't see Stevie's fans defending her in any way that's different from the way in which other fans defend their favorite artists. Yet, God forbid if you forget to constantly remind people of all the things you can't stand about her.

And god forbid if you ever say something remotely critical of her.

You and I hang out on some very different fan forums. I tend to stick to places where legitimate criticism of the artist in question is common and makes things interesting. But I apologize that I and a few others would like to see Stevie live up to her potential to be a more engaging and committed performer/recording artist, and are disappointed when she doesn't. I can't promise to try to be more complacent in the future, though.

[amber]

Are there people who read only the Christine forum and not the Rumours forum? Are there people who read the Christine forum?

Yes, and they are vociferous in their defense. Honestly, I've never encountered as much hostility on the Stevie board as I did on Christine's. Someone actually said to me something like: "what are you doing over here, then?!?!? Why don't you exit this board if that's how you feel!"
That was a paraphrase, but the content was similar. And I like Christine. I actually had made a *fairly* innocuous comment. (Especially compared to the things people say about Stevelah.*)

And god forbid if you ever say something remotely critical of her.

You and I hang out on some very different fan forums. I tend to stick to places where legitimate criticism of the artist in question is common and makes things interesting. But I apologize that I and a few others would like to see Stevie live up to her potential to be a more engaging and committed performer/recording artist, and are disappointed when she doesn't. I can't promise to try to be more complacent in the future, though.

mlah mlah.

It's not really that dramatic, actually.

Some defend her, about certain things, (those things not necessarily being the quality of her recent performances).
I think many of us realize that Stevie is operating at her potential. At least the current amount of potential we'll ever see. Sure, it sucks, comparatively, but we can't really ask Stevie to step back to her mindset of 1982. It's totally unreasonable. If you don't like it now, don't go - but it seems clear what you should expect. If you think she sucks soooooo bad now that you could never watch her perform - Just own that. It's true. If you feel that way, you shouldn't go. But why bitch excessively? It seems to me that we should all know what to expect.

Some realize that she will never be what we want her to be, or what she was before, but that a concert or album may have enjoyable parts, anyway, because they still contain that unique voice, and sensibility, that only one person in the world has. ( this would partially be my opinion).

Additionally, I realize her value to FM - besides all she did before, previously, and totally discounting that - Her sense of harmony is still exquisite, if you think of a lot of songs from the SYW performances, those two together, vocally, made it magical. Even with Stevie's severely limited range. *beautiful child stands out especially to me, besides Chain, and the other obvious harmony songs. I cried every frickin time during BC - not because of the words, but because the vocal blending was so beautiful and exquisite.*

Some people are blindly defensive. I don't have much to say about that, because I barely understand it.

Some people see the gaping flaws, but still have an incredible amount of respect for her because of her catalogue. And can you really logically argue against that? Good lord, I hope not! She's the most unusual performer to come along in decades, vocally, lyrically, harmonically. And she has a buttload of songs - chances are you'll dig more than one.

These people realize that you can't hit a home run every time, and you may, at times, suck a lot.

But the genius of when you (Stevie) didn't suck (when you wuhhhhhhh goood) overrides a lot of complaints. That would be my view as well.

Also, there are those who can make fun, and see the flaws, but still love and acknowlege the genius. That's me too, very much. Very, very , very much. If I had a Stevie theme, that would be it.

But sesly, when Stevie is bad, it is sooo ridiculous. Embarrassing, even, to say the least.

[Jyqm]

Yes, and they are vociferous in their defense. Honestly, I've never encountered as much hostility on the Stevie board as I did on Christine's. Someone actually said to me something like: "what are you doing over here, then?!?!? Why don't you exit this board if that's how you feel!"

Yeah, I think I've seen folks do that on the Lindsey board as well.

I think many of us realize that Stevie is operating at her potential. At least the current amount of potential we'll ever see.

That doesn't really make much sense. I agree that she's operating at about the level we ought to realistically expect from here on out. But that doesn't mean she's living up to her potential. She clearly has the potential to do a lot more.

If you don't like it now, don't go - but it seems clear what you should expect.

I don't go, and don't plan on going in the future. Although that has much more to do with ticket prices than performance.

If you think she sucks soooooo bad now that you could never watch her perform - Just own that.

I don't think she "sucks soooooo bad," and I doubt that the other folks who dare to offer up complaints think so either. But that's the problem on this board - if you criticize, some people think you're saying that Stevie out and out sucks. Which simply isn't the case, at least for me.

But why bitch excessively?

I really don't think I've bitched excessively. I think I offer up a pretty reasonable mix of praise, criticism and general discussion on this board. If the bitching seems excessive, it's probably only because these conversations get so belabored like this when the folks who dare to criticize are put on the defensive.

Some people see the gaping flaws, but still have an incredible amount of respect for her because of her catalogue. And can you really logically argue against that?

Have I? I fall largely into the same camp as you on almost everything else you brought up in your post.

[sara1998]

This whole thread is cracking me up! Talk about Jekyl and Hyde.... :lol:

[amber]

Yeah, I think I've seen folks do that on the Lindsey board as well.



That doesn't really make much sense. I agree that she's operating at about the level we ought to realistically expect from here on out. But that doesn't mean she's living up to her potential. She clearly has the potential to do a lot more.



I don't go, and don't plan on going in the future. Although that has much more to do with ticket prices than performance.



I don't think she "sucks soooooo bad," and I doubt that the other folks who dare to offer up complaints think so either. But that's the problem on this board - if you criticize, some people think you're saying that Stevie out and out sucks. Which simply isn't the case, at least for me.



I really don't think I've bitched excessively. I think I offer up a pretty reasonable mix of praise, criticism and general discussion on this board. If the bitching seems excessive, it's probably only because these conversations get so belabored like this when the folks who dare to criticize are put on the defensive.



Have I? I fall largely into the same camp as you on almost everything else you brought up in your post.

Sorry, I actually wasn't talking about you bitching excessively. I meant the collective "you". Yeah, you haven't bitched much. :sorry:

[Johnny Stew]

Are there people who read only the Christine forum and not the Rumours forum? Are there people who read the Christine forum?As Amber said, yes, there most definitely are.

And god forbid if you ever say something remotely critical of her.Again... that wasn't my point. You said that people often step up their criticisms of Stevie to make up for, or retaliate against, those who feel she can do no wrong and aggressively defend her.

I simply want to know why umbrage is only taken when it concerns Stevie and her fans.

You and I hang out on some very different fan forums. I tend to stick to places where legitimate criticism of the artist in question is common and makes things interesting. But I apologize that I and a few others would like to see Stevie live up to her potential to be a more engaging and committed performer/recording artist, and are disappointed when she doesn't. I can't promise to try to be more complacent in the future, though.I prefer message boards that aren't filled with sycophants, but, conversely, aren't filled with people who complain about the same old things, ad nauseum.

The thing that folks don't seem to "get" about me, is that I'm not saying... nor have I ever said... that Stevie's perfect, or that she can do no wrong, or that it wouldn't be more interesting and special for the fans if she'd perform more rare songs, or try something off the beaten path a little more often... it's just that I've grown weary of reading the same complaints about the same things, time and time again. And you can say, "well, don't read those threads," but it's seeped into ALL threads.

There are some things in life we can change and there are some things we can't, and complaining about the latter never does any good.

[Jyqm]

Again... that wasn't my point. You said that people often step up their criticisms of Stevie to make up for, or retaliate against, those who feel she can do no wrong and aggressively defend her.

I simply want to know why umbrage is only taken when it concerns Stevie and her fans.

Is it? I haven't noticed it much with Lindsey or Chris, but I think that's largely because there's much less activity on their forums. But if somebody wants to try and justify Lindsey's infuriating stangancy by saying, "Well, he just needs to take his time and make everything perfect," I'll gladly take the, "The hell with that, release a f***ing album already" position.

it's just that I've grown weary of reading the same complaints about the same things, time and time again. And you can say, "well, don't read those threads," but it's seeped into ALL threads.

By the same token, however, it can also get a little tiresome and frustrating seeing the same "Oh well!" justifications over and over again. Perhaps I'm simply a lot less cynical than some fans, but I actually don't believe that Stevie is completely doomed to forever be resting on her tired old warhorse-laurels. The day that I completely embrace that idea is probably the day that I stop really being an active fan, because really, at that juncture, what's the point? And while I don't really believe that Stevie or her people pay too much attention to this message board, I still believe that the more fans express their desire to see Stevie try new and different things, the more likely she is to hopefully get the message at some point.

[jannieC]

I have always felt that Stevie still *sounds* as good, of not better sometimes, as she ever did. It's her emotional presence that gets to me and has ever since the Enchanted tour. She seems bored and not with us. Am I the only one who feels this way? This thread has really intrested me because you all are posting such awesome, well-thought posts. (I know my observation is kind of bleh compared to others here).



Some people see the gaping flaws, but still have an incredible amount of respect for her because of her catalogue. And can you really logically argue against that? Good lord, I hope not! She's the most unusual performer to come along in decades, vocally, lyrically, harmonically. And she has a buttload of songs - chances are you'll dig more than one.

These people realize that you can't hit a home run every time, and you may, at times, suck a lot.

But the genius of when you (Stevie) didn't suck (when you wuhhhhhhh goood) overrides a lot of complaints. That would be my view as well.

Also, there are those who can make fun, and see the flaws, but still love and acknowlege the genius. That's me too, very much. Very, very , very much. If I had a Stevie theme, that would be it.

But sesly, when Stevie is bad, it is sooo ridiculous. Embarrassing, even, to say the least.

This really resonates with me- well said.

[David]

I simply want to know why umbrage is only taken when it concerns Stevie and her fans.I think I tried bringing this up a few months ago, but it probably registered as a joke. There is a sadism in me, a violence in me that I feel compelled to use, from time to time, against Stevie & Friends. It's a sort of Sadean urge to debase her. But it's more polemical than sexual.

Does anyone else feel this way?

[Jyqm]

I have always felt that Stevie still *sounds* as good, of not better sometimes, as she ever did. It's her emotional presence that gets to me and has ever since the Enchanted tour. She seems bored and not with us. Am I the only one who feels this way?

Nope. I saw one show on both the TISL and SYW tours, and while both were good shows, nothing about Stevie's performance or energy really blew me away, with very few exceptions. (Like "Beautiful Child.")