Future Games [Archive]

DavidMn

09-19-2005, 04:23 PM

I like Future Games very much, although not as much as some of the later Bob Welch era albums. My favorite songs, in order:

Future Games
Show Me A Smile

It's just a consistently good album. There are no bad songs anywhere to be found.
ANd it was a great sign that Fleetwood Mac could move on after what seemed at the time to be the disastrous departure of Peter Green. Although they did make Kiln House in the interim.

chiliD

09-19-2005, 07:10 PM

And it was a great sign that Fleetwood Mac could move on after what seemed at the time to be the disastrous departure of Peter Green. Although they did make Kiln House in the interim.

Future Games came on the heels of the sudden disappearance of Jeremy Spencer...just they were already coming to grips with Peter's departure by then.

FG was also the biggest change sound-wise from album to album. Because Jeremy was all but absent on Then Play On, Kiln House was kind of a surprise to most people. Had Jeremy's tunes been included on TPO (the songs that were eventually released as Jeremy's first solo album; but really was just Jeremy fronting Fleetwood Mac for a whole album), I DON'T think KH would've been THAT much of a departure sonically. Danny's tunes still pretty much sounded the same and Jeremy's still sounded the same...it just didn't have Peter & songs like "Oh Well" or "Rattlesnake Shake" (although the end of "Tell Me All The Things You Do" is VERY reminiscent of the "Madges")

With FG, the new, fresh entity of Bob Welch and the addition of Christine Perfect added a whole new sound along with similar sounding fare of Danny Kirwan. "Woman Of A 1000 Years" is not that much of a departure from "Although The Sun Is Shining" on TPO; "Sands Of Time" is basically "Station Man, Part II", "Sometimes" is "Like Crying" only more hick. Welch, with his title cut & "Lay It All Down" just came out of nowhere. Christine's two tunes..."Morning Rain" would've fit on Kiln House had she joined the band one album sooner'; "Show Me A Smile" was the grandmother of "Songbird".

The great "link" song between the sound of Kiln House and Future Games was the Spencer/Kirwan tune "Purple Dancer"...it sounded just enough like KH to be familiar, yet dropped MORE than enough hints as to the upcoming change in direction sound, as well.

I've always considered FG as my "Sunday Morning" album.

DavidMn

09-21-2005, 01:18 AM

Future Games came on the heels of the sudden disappearance of Jeremy Spencer...just they were already coming to grips with Peter's departure by then.

FG was also the biggest change sound-wise from album to album. Because Jeremy was all but absent on Then Play On, Kiln House was kind of a surprise to most people. Had Jeremy's tunes been included on TPO (the songs that were eventually released as Jeremy's first solo album; but really was just Jeremy fronting Fleetwood Mac for a whole album), I DON'T think KH would've been THAT much of a departure sonically. Danny's tunes still pretty much sounded the same and Jeremy's still sounded the same...it just didn't have Peter & songs like "Oh Well" or "Rattlesnake Shake" (although the end of "Tell Me All The Things You Do" is VERY reminiscent of the "Madges")

With FG, the new, fresh entity of Bob Welch and the addition of Christine Perfect added a whole new sound along with similar sounding fare of Danny Kirwan. "Woman Of A 1000 Years" is not that much of a departure from "Although The Sun Is Shining" on TPO; "Sands Of Time" is basically "Station Man, Part II", "Sometimes" is "Like Crying" only more hick. Welch, with his title cut & "Lay It All Down" just came out of nowhere. Christine's two tunes..."Morning Rain" would've fit on Kiln House had she joined the band one album sooner'; "Show Me A Smile" was the grandmother of "Songbird".

The great "link" song between the sound of Kiln House and Future Games was the Spencer/Kirwan tune "Purple Dancer"...it sounded just enough like KH to be familiar, yet dropped MORE than enough hints as to the upcoming change in direction sound, as well.

I've always considered FG as my "Sunday Morning" album.U know, I can always count on learning something new whenever I post in this forum. :thumbsup:

sharksfan2000

09-21-2005, 10:41 AM

The great "link" song between the sound of Kiln House and Future Games was the Spencer/Kirwan tune "Purple Dancer"...it sounded just enough like KH to be familiar, yet dropped MORE than enough hints as to the upcoming change in direction sound, as well
"The Purple Dancer" was one of the band's best tracks from the early '70s. It's a crime that it was not included on the box set. :mad:

chiliD

09-21-2005, 10:48 AM

"The Purple Dancer" was one of the band's best tracks from the early '70s. It's a crime that it was not included on the box set. :mad:

There were A LOT of crimes committed with that box set. :laugh:

DavidMn

09-21-2005, 10:50 AM

There were A LOT of crimes committed with that box set. :laugh:
Maybe if there's a 40th anniversary set in 2007, the band will rectify some of those mistakes. Either make the set larger, maybe like 6 cd's or change some of the stuff around.

chiliD

09-21-2005, 10:58 AM

Maybe if there's a 40th anniversary set in 2007, the band will rectify some of those mistakes. Either make the set larger, maybe like 6 cd's or change some of the stuff around.

First off, they don't need to include 99% of both Rumours & the white album in a box set...that's stupidly redundant or redundantly stupid.

The upside of the box set:
The new tunes, "Silver Springs", "Goodbye Angel", "Teen Beat", Danny Kirwan's long-lost "Trinity", and Bob Welch's alternate take of "Lay It All Down" with the additional verse.

DavidMn

09-21-2005, 11:02 AM

First off, they don't need to include 99% of both Rumours & the white album in a box set...that's stupidly redundant or redundantly stupid.

The upside of the box set:
The new tunes, "Silver Springs", "Goodbye Angel", "Teen Beat", Danny Kirwan's long-lost "Trinity", and Bob Welch's alternate take of "Lay It All Down" with the additional verse.
Ok, here's a good question for you. You're in charge of what goes on the 40th anniversary set. How many cd's would u have it be, and what would you put on it? This will be interesting

chiliD

09-21-2005, 12:03 PM

Ok, here's a good question for you. You're in charge of what goes on the 40th anniversary set. How many cd's would u have it be, and what would you put on it? This will be interesting

Since I don't have access or knowledge of what exactly is in the vaults, I don't really know WHAT I would put on it. But, the one thing I would do is put the box set in as close to chronological order as possible.

But, actually, I think in lieu of a box set, I would rather just finish off the rest of the Fleetwood Mac catalogue's remasters in their entirety...all the way up to The Dance.

And, as I think about it, instead of a box set of studio material, I think I'd compile a fairly comprehensive box set of live material:

Disc one: 1967-1970
Disc two: 1971-1974
Disc three: 1975-1982
Disc four: 1987-1990
Disc five: 1994-1995
Disc six: 1997-2007

DavidMn

09-21-2005, 12:07 PM

Since I don't have access or knowledge of what exactly is in the vaults, I don't really know WHAT I would put on it. But, the one thing I would do is put the box set in as close to chronological order as possible.

But, actually, I think in lieu of a box set, I would rather just finish off the rest of the Fleetwood Mac catalogue's remasters in their entirety...all the way up to The Dance.

And, as I think about it, instead of a box set of studio material, I think I'd compile a fairly comprehensive box set of live material:

Disc one: 1967-1970
Disc two: 1971-1974
Disc three: 1975-1982
Disc four: 1987-1990
Disc five: 1994-1995
Disc six: 1997-2007Very nice. Ilike it

Jyqm

09-21-2005, 02:35 PM

And, as I think about it, instead of a box set of studio material, I think I'd compile a fairly comprehensive box set of live material:

Disc one: 1967-1970

What could even go on a comprehensive single CD from this period? There's so much great live material out there, I can't imagine trimming it all down to 80 minutes. Especially when "Rattlesnake Shake" from the second Boston Tea Party set needs to take up almost a third of it...

Disc two: 1971-1974

I think a lot of folks are just dying for something like this...

Disc four: 1987-1990

Less so for this...

chiliD

09-21-2005, 02:54 PM

Disc one: 1967-1970What could even go on a comprehensive single CD from this period? There's so much great live material out there, I can't imagine trimming it all down to 80 minutes. Especially when "Rattlesnake Shake" from the second Boston Tea Party set needs to take up almost a third of it...

That is true, but that period is pretty well documented already, especially with the Boston trilogy, Shrine '69 and disc two of the Showbiz Blues set. Since the VERY FIRST Fleetwood Mac show is now in bootleg circulation, I'd put the first couple of songs from that to lead off the disc.

Disc two: 1971-1974I think a lot of folks are just dying for something like this...

There are bootlegs in circulation...two or three of which are radio broadcasts, so I imagine there has to be some documentation from this era that was semi-officially recorded.

Disc four: 1987-1990Less so for this...

You'd be surprised. These tours were well-received, despite what people here seem to recall or post about.

Jyqm

09-22-2005, 09:43 AM

You'd be surprised. These tours were well-received, despite what people here seem to recall or post about.

I know they were well-received at the time, but have the performances aged terribly well? I haven't watched the Tango video in a good long while, but I seem to remember not being terribly impressed by it, with a couple of exceptions (like Rick's "I Loved Another Woman").

chiliD

09-22-2005, 10:50 AM

I know they were well-received at the time, but have the performances aged terribly well? I haven't watched the Tango video in a good long while, but I seem to remember not being terribly impressed by it, with a couple of exceptions (like Rick's "I Loved Another Woman").

The Tango video is far and away a poor representation of the tour. It is about 1/3 of the set, it was poorly conceived (the "in-studio" Stevie Nicks close-ups are a joke). If they'd just filmed the concert and left it at that (along the lines of the Mirage video), I think it would've been a better video.

johnny4406

09-22-2005, 12:43 PM

I noticed "Future Games" has the worst sound quality, compared to the other albums. They really need to remaster this one at least.

chiliD

09-22-2005, 12:46 PM

I noticed "Future Games" has the worst sound quality, compared to the other albums. They really need to remaster this one at least.

Listened to Mirage lately? Future Games is impeccable by comparison.

DavidMn

09-22-2005, 04:21 PM

Listened to Mirage lately? Future Games is impeccable by comparison.
Hmm, I tend to agree with you. I actually really like the way Future games sounds. But what do I know? :rolleyes:

sharksfan2000

09-22-2005, 04:47 PM

I noticed "Future Games" has the worst sound quality, compared to the other albums. They really need to remaster this one at least.
Have to agree - I've always thought the sound on Future Games was pretty bad, both on disc and on the original vinyl too. Same goes for Then Play On.

Wouter Vuijk

09-22-2005, 07:46 PM

Have to agree - I've always thought the sound on Future Games was pretty bad, both on disc and on the original vinyl too. Same goes for Then Play On.
Whats wrong with the sound of Then Play On???? I myself really get moved with it. Vinyl as well as CD. :confused:

DavidMn

09-22-2005, 07:48 PM

Whats wrong with the sound of Then Play On???? I myself really get moved with it. Vinyl as well as CD. :confused:
Oh well, to each their own I guess. BTW I got your package in the mail. Thank you very much!!! :thumbsup:

SteveMacD

09-22-2005, 08:10 PM

Disc one: 1967-1970
Disc two: 1971-1974
Disc three: 1975-1982
Disc four: 1987-1990
Disc five: 1994-1995
Disc six: 1997-2007

I LOVE the concept. Here's my tweeking:

Disc 1: 1967-1969 (Blues era)
Disc 2: 1969-1971 (TPO-KH tours)
Disc 3: 1971-1974 (Welch-era)
Disc 4: 1975-1982 (Rumours-era)
Disc 5: 1987-1995 (Billy-era)
Disc 6: 1997-2007 (Mini Mac-era/misc other stuff-i.e. "Roxy")

I think the Green/Spencer years were so split between the purist blues and the experimental rock that they almost require two discs. From what I've seen, set lists didn't seem to have much variation after Peter Green quit, so you could probably get a good representation of live materails from certain eras on one disc. I would put the Billy years on one disc, as even with changing personnel, the set lists didn't have much variation from the '75-'82 sets.

SteveMacD

09-22-2005, 08:13 PM

Whats wrong with the sound of Then Play On???? I myself really get moved with it. Vinyl as well as CD. :confused:
I think it has a bit more mid-range than what most are used to. It doesn't sound all that pristine, for lack of a better word. I also love the way it sounds, BTW. I just think many aren't really used to it.

Richard B

09-22-2005, 08:21 PM

Future Games is a sweet album.

I play it now and friends of mine can not fathom that's it FM. Great stuff on this one. Has anyone noted the Woman Of 1000 Years has been mislabeled in time length for years? Printed it states 8 mins or so, but in reality just over 5-6 mins.

SteveMacD

09-22-2005, 08:32 PM

Has anyone noted the Woman Of 1000 Years has been mislabeled in time length for years? Printed it states 8 mins or so, but in reality just over 5-6 mins.
YEP! That's always been a mystery.

sharksfan2000

09-22-2005, 08:36 PM

I think it has a bit more mid-range than what most are used to. It doesn't sound all that pristine, for lack of a better word. I also love the way it sounds, BTW. I just think many aren't really used to it.
I think that's a good way to describe Then Play On, Steve. It is a different-sounding production, for sure (no doubt due to the band producing themselves). I think it lacks crispness, especially the bass which I find very indistinct. It's always struck me as somewhat artificial, for lack of a better word - the sound just doesn't integrate very well to my ears. That being said, I don't so much dislike it as I feel it could be better.

But it's nowhere near as bad as Future Games - I recall that when I first bought the LP, it sounded so muddy I thought I must have gotten a bad copy and exchanged it for another one - but of course that one wasn't any better! :laugh:

chiliD

09-23-2005, 11:20 AM

I LOVE the concept. Here's my tweeking:

Disc 1: 1967-1969 (Blues era)
Disc 2: 1969-1971 (TPO-KH tours)
Disc 3: 1971-1974 (Welch-era)
Disc 4: 1975-1982 (Rumours-era)
Disc 5: 1987-1995 (Billy-era)
Disc 6: 1997-2007 (Mini Mac-era/misc other stuff-i.e. "Roxy")

I think the Green/Spencer years were so split between the purist blues and the experimental rock that they almost require two discs. From what I've seen, set lists didn't seem to have much variation after Peter Green quit, so you could probably get a good representation of live materails from certain eras on one disc. I would put the Billy years on one disc, as even with changing personnel, the set lists didn't have much variation from the '75-'82 sets.

I like your tweaks. :nod:

johnny4406

09-23-2005, 12:08 PM

Future Games just sounds really low quality...does this have anything to do with the master tapes passing through the magnetic x-ray thingy in the airport as fleetwood mac was coming to america from england...or do I have my stories mixed up? (or albums!)

Future Games ... the vocals are too low and blurry, compared to the instruments. WEIRD

SteveMacD

09-23-2005, 12:33 PM

johnny4406

09-23-2005, 12:38 PM

Yeah, that was "Bare Trees." Same line-up, though.

and what ended up happening? the tapes werent destroyed? or did they re-record?

I LOVE Bare Trees!

chiliD

09-23-2005, 01:11 PM

and what ended up happening? the tapes werent destroyed? or did they re-record?

I LOVE Bare Trees!

The tapes that got demagnatized where the final two-track masters...they had to remix the album from the multi-track masters. So, it's intriguing to wonder how much of a difference in the mixes between what the original mix was and the remixed version that we finally heard was. :shrug:

johnny4406

09-23-2005, 02:36 PM

Since we're on the topic of future games

I like the album version of lay it all down
but the quality again sucks

I prefer the box set alternate
:D

duracell

09-23-2005, 06:42 PM

Isn't the problem with the British vinyl version is that it was one of the longest recordings and therefore has a low dynamic level just to make it fit; which does make it have a relative low bass and higher mid-range. Martin Birch was a good engineer so you would think there has to be a great remastered version to come out some time.

I think that's a good way to describe Then Play On, Steve. It is a different-sounding production, for sure (no doubt due to the band producing themselves). I think it lacks crispness, especially the bass which I find very indistinct. It's always struck me as somewhat artificial, for lack of a better word - the sound just doesn't integrate very well to my ears. That being said, I don't so much dislike it as I feel it could be better.

But it's nowhere near as bad as Future Games - I recall that when I first bought the LP, it sounded so muddy I thought I must have gotten a bad copy and exchanged it for another one - but of course that one wasn't any better! :laugh: