Stevie and Lindsey's Big Fight

[lagringader&r]

I found some quotes from Stevie about a fight between her and Lindsey. I think this was 87. If anyone has the audio to this, can you link it or post it because I can't seem to? This is pretty scary. Woah. I think if anyone thought she never regretted smiling at him..well. I know he kicked her on stage during one of the Tusk shows but is he a violent person? Is she? This blew me away. (Oh and if he had killed her, her family and the band would have to get in line behind me!)

Because of that guilt I have always had about not leaving Fleetwood Mac, flew off of the couch and across the room to seriously attack him. And I did. I mean, and I’m not real scary but I can be fairly ferocious. And I grabbed him, you know, which almost got me killed.

He ended up chasing me all the way out of Christine’s maze like house and down the street and then back up the street and then he threw me against the car and I screamed horrible obscenities at him and uh I thought he was going to kill me and I think he probably thought he was going to kill me, too. And um, I said to him “you know if the rest of the..if the rest of the people in the band don’t get you, my family will. My dad and my brother will kill you.”

[jbrownsjr]

Yes LB has some alleged concerns about respecting women. Don't know how true but the evidence did add up over the years....

[LikeAWillow]

I found some quotes from Stevie about a fight between her and Lindsey. I think this was 87. If anyone has the audio to this, can you link it or post it because I can't seem to? This is pretty scary. Woah. I think if anyone thought she never regretted smiling at him..well. I know he kicked her on stage during one of the Tusk shows but is he a violent person? Is she? This blew me away. (Oh and if he had killed her, her family and the band would have to get in line behind me!)

Because of that guilt I have always had about not leaving Fleetwood Mac, flew off of the couch and across the room to seriously attack him. And I did. I mean, and I’m not real scary but I can be fairly ferocious. And I grabbed him, you know, which almost got me killed.

He ended up chasing me all the way out of Christine’s maze like house and down the street and then back up the street and then he threw me against the car and I screamed horrible obscenities at him and uh I thought he was going to kill me and I think he probably thought he was going to kill me, too. And um, I said to him “you know if the rest of the..if the rest of the people in the band don’t get you, my family will. My dad and my brother will kill you.”

Wow :shocked: :distress: :shocked: That is the first time I've ever seen that, where did you find it Sue?

[face of glass]

If anyone has the audio to this, can you link it or post it because I can't seem to?
Here's the audio via YouSendIt to those who haven't heard it:

Part 1 (http://s7.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=202004S110P2L1MBJF6Y1JMQCJ).

Part 2 (http://s7.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=3TRKVWP4F3X351WTGZ71NRR3AF).

Keep in mind, she stated these things during the Klonopin era, it was either 1994 or 1995.

[strandinthewind]

I have no doubt the fight happened and I think it was pretty much as she described it. I also think that fight was the volcanoe erupting and both are pretty horrified by it now in hindsight. I am just glad they were able to work it out in the end.

[STEVEHEDRICK]

lindsay is jealous because her solo career is still successful his dosen't exist!

[littlecricket2]

You're new around here, aren't you?

LOL! :xoxo:

[LeighB04]

LOL! :xoxo:

ROFCSGMHO

(OK, that's: rolling on floor clutching sides giggling my head off)
(Amazingly, some people still really don't even know who Fleetwood Mac is, let alone the ins and outs of Buck-Nicks dramas!) (I guess not everybody is a fanatic...) (clears throat) SO don't feel bad! It's kinda cute really....

[darklinensuit]

I have no doubt the fight happened and I think it was pretty much as she described it. I also think that fight was the volcanoe erupting and both are pretty horrified by it now in hindsight. I am just glad they were able to work it out in the end.

Yeah, what he said. :nod:

- Jake

[gldstwmn]

I found some quotes from Stevie about a fight between her and Lindsey. I think this was 87. If anyone has the audio to this, can you link it or post it because I can't seem to? This is pretty scary. Woah. I think if anyone thought she never regretted smiling at him..well. I know he kicked her on stage during one of the Tusk shows but is he a violent person? Is she? This blew me away. (Oh and if he had killed her, her family and the band would have to get in line behind me!)

Because of that guilt I have always had about not leaving Fleetwood Mac, flew off of the couch and across the room to seriously attack him. And I did. I mean, and I’m not real scary but I can be fairly ferocious. And I grabbed him, you know, which almost got me killed.

He ended up chasing me all the way out of Christine’s maze like house and down the street and then back up the street and then he threw me against the car and I screamed horrible obscenities at him and uh I thought he was going to kill me and I think he probably thought he was going to kill me, too. And um, I said to him “you know if the rest of the..if the rest of the people in the band don’t get you, my family will. My dad and my brother will kill you.”

Yeah, this is when he told them he was skipping out on the Tango tour after all of the dates had been booked. Had they not gone out with Vito and Burnette, it probably would have cost the band a fortune. Mick was pretty much bankrupt around this time too, I think.
Lindsey had already agreed to go on the tour so she had good reason to be pissed at him. It had been building for a very long time though, I'm sure.

[lagringader&r]

Here's the audio via YouSendIt to those who haven't heard it:

Part 1 (http://s7.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=202004S110P2L1MBJF6Y1JMQCJ).

Part 2 (http://s7.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=3TRKVWP4F3X351WTGZ71NRR3AF).

Keep in mind, she stated these things during the Klonopin era, it was either 1994 or 1995.

Thanks for posting the links to those. I wonder what her being on Klonopin at the time had anything to do with the fight or what she said, though. I don't think Stevie was so out of it that she made any of it up or embellished or whatever. jbrownsjr said there were alleged concerns about Lindsey respecting women and I'm really curious to know what those are, other than what I've already heard about the Tusk kick? No disrespect meant, but for those that think Stevie should be with Lindsey, ugh. I don't think so.

[face of glass]

No disrespect meant, but for those that think Stevie should be with Lindsey, ugh. I don't think so.
Standard SNL shipper response:
Hate is not the opposite of love, indifference is!

[SapphireSister]

Yeah I've known about this incident for a while and it never surprised me. Was this the same time that Lindsey said "Keep that crazy bitch away from me!" or was that during Tusk?

*Sue I have something very important to tell you!

[lagringader&r]

Standard SNL shipper response:

Hmm. I guess my response would be "if beating somebody up is love, that's really messed up."

[face of glass]

Was this the same time that Lindsey said "Keep that crazy bitch away from me!" or was that during Tusk?
According to Mick's book it was. The book says that Lindsey called Stevie "a schizophrenic bitch", or something along those lines.

[lagringader&r]

Yes LB has some alleged concerns about respecting women. Don't know how true but the evidence did add up over the years....

My curiosity is killing me. You said women, but do you mean other alleged things like this with Stevie? Or other women?

[face of glass]

Hmm. I guess my response would be "if beating somebody up is love, that's really messed up."
I'm not trying to find any justification for what Lindsey apparently did (since I do believe that Stevie was telling the truth in that interview). However, Stevie definitely had no right to attack Lindsey either. And who knows if she's left out something from the story.
Lindsey has a violent side to his personality, and I think that's something that some of his music reflects too. At that point he was in a bad place emotionally, he may have acted on an impulse (and who hasn't done something extreme in a flash, only to regret it later), but it still doesn't give any real justification to what he did.

[gldstwmn]

My curiosity is killing me. You said women, but do you mean other alleged things like this with Stevie? Or other women?

Carol Ann Harris went on the old Geraldo Rivera daytime tv show and said that Lindsey hit her or abused her or some such thing.

[LeighB04]

Abuse is a funny thing (well, strange funny): sometimes it can be a once off event, sometimes it becomes a habitual response to any situation.
With two women having mentioned Lindsey's violent behaviour it wouldn't surprise me if it's the latter, rather than him reacting to Stevie - although she could certainly have provoked him into certain irrational responses. It also doesn't mean that he's that way within his present family - his wife may just know how not to push his buttons, instead of what may have happened with both Stevie and Carol Ann (both presumably passionate and erratic people, by all acocunts).

[ELIUD]

My gut feeling is that there were a lot more physical altercations between the two of them. I remember one time Stevie was talking about attending the 'Purple Rain' premiere and she said she had to get up and leave when she saw Prince slap Apolonia whats-her-name in the movie. That was before the Tango fight on the car.

Then there was Lindsey's next girlfriend who came out on Geraldo or whichever Donahue clone show was big at the time and said he smacked her around as well. He allegedly yelled at her "you are all the same".

Plus 'Wild Heart' has always seemed to me like an anthem for battered women. So much blame, danger...and fighting. I love it though.

[Mad4stevie]

Yeah I've known about this incident for a while and it never surprised me. Was this the same time that Lindsey said "Keep that crazy bitch away from me!" or was that during Tusk?

Yes. I believe that Mick also talked about this in his book. As I recall, LB was pretty pissed that he wrote what he did in his book.

As I recall, SN was yelling to LB, "How dare you do this to me" (blah, blah, blah) and was basically berating him. LB slapped SN and that is when she was "thrown" onto the car and he yelled, "Keep that schizophrenic bitch away from me!".

I think there was an article about this around the time SYW was released.

[darklinensuit]

My gut feeling is that there were a lot more physical altercations between the two of them.

Well, iff we can trust him, in Mick's account of the incident he says that Lindsey had done it before, if I remember.

- Jake

[darklinensuit]

I'm not trying to find any justification for what Lindsey apparently did (since I do believe that Stevie was telling the truth in that interview). However, Stevie definitely had no right to attack Lindsey either.

Agreed. But for what it's worth, Stevie sounds like she takes responsibility for her part in the escalation in this interview.

- Jake

[Serrart]

I'm not trying to find any justification for what Lindsey apparently did (since I do believe that Stevie was telling the truth in that interview). However, Stevie definitely had no right to attack Lindsey either. And who knows if she's left out something from the story.
Lindsey has a violent side to his personality, and I think that's something that some of his music reflects too. At that point he was in a bad place emotionally, he may have acted on an impulse (and who hasn't done something extreme in a flash, only to regret it later), but it still doesn't give any real justification to what he did.

I agree. And that's the reason why I have a great admiration for him as an artist but there's a shadow about my idea of him as a man. I'm not saying he isn't changed, I don't know him. But what he did crossed a very clear line in my mind.

Romy

[darklinensuit]

I agree. And that's the reason why I have a great admiration for him as an artist but there's a shadow about my idea of him as a man. I'm not saying he isn't changed, I don't know him. But what he did crossed a very clear line in my mind.

Romy

Romy, when are you coming by to watch H & M? (Re:sig quotes :blob2: )

- Jake

[Serrart]

Romy, when are you coming by to watch H & M? (Re:sig quotes :blob2: )

- Jake

Jake, as soon as my great plan to finally discover America would find solid economic bases. :D

Romy

[darklinensuit]

Jake, as soon as my great plan to finally discover America would find solid economic bases. :D

Romy

I'll keep you in mind when I start playing the Lotto again. :woohoo: ;)

- Jake

[Serrart]

I'll keep you in mind when I start playing the Lotto again. :woohoo: ;)

- Jake

And people say there aren't gentlemen anymore. :cool: ;)

Romy

[darklinensuit]

And people say there aren't gentlemen anymore. :cool: ;)

Romy

Yeah, the people who have met me. :cool: ;)

- Jake

[David]

jbrownsjr said there were alleged concerns about Lindsey respecting women and I'm really curious to know what those are, other than what I've already heard about the Tusk kick?I think the altercation in August 1987 between the two of them was definitely very physically violent, but I don't think we know for certain whether the incident in New Zealand onstage in 1980 was the same sort of physical thing.

I think the word "kick" is loaded; it gives people a very definite impression of what might have happened. Mick does use the word "kick" in his book, but Mick & Stephen Davis often use colorful, loaded language whose accuracy we can't really gauge (Mick will write, "I screamed at Dennis" or "I howled at John" or So-and-So "screamed for mercy" or talk about dozens of "all-night fights with Sara").

However, here's what the book actually said: "He started to kick Stevie while she was trying to salvage the number. Sixty thousand people were watching! Lindsey would flick his foot at her & Stevie would shy away, trying to cover up his stoned-out behavior to save us all from dying of embarrassment."

In fact, later on TV on the Graham Nash show, Mick re-emphasized the use of the word "flick" rather than "kick." So, just based on Mick's book, it seems a little obtuse to paint the image that he hauled back & walloped her with his shoe, like kicking a soccer ball. Also, according to the book, Christine gets backstage & yells at Lindsey: "Don't you ever do this to this band again." If Lindsey had actually kicked Stevie like a soccer ball, don't you think Chris would have put Stevie's welfare above that of the band's? She didn't say: "Don't you ever hurt Stevie again." Finally, Mick says he went on the radio to talk about the band & the show immediately after, but he says that the call-in audience either didn't notice the incident or thought his behavior was an "act" or a "joke." If Stevie had been kicked in the sense that we usually think of "to kick," the audience would have certainly been alarmed.

That's my perspective & I'm kickin' to it . . . er, stickin' to it.

[GardenStateGirlie]

They were two very emotional and passionate people working in an incredibly volitile environment. They pressed each others buttons to the max. I've no doubt they've both abused each other mentally. Do I think Lindsey had any intention of hurting her physically? No. Do I suspect it may have happen? Sure, but I wasn't there so your guess is as good as mine. He borderlined obsession with her for years, IMO and she him because they never had a clear ending. Love can be a savior and love can be a monster -- I think their love for each other took on multiple rolls and caused the blowup. However, I doubt this was the only "big fight" but it's the only one you hear of, courtesy of Mick (whom I think had his own coked out spin on it).

[ontheEdgeof17]

They were two very emotional and passionate people working in an incredibly volitile environment. They pressed each others buttons to the max. I've no doubt they've both abused each other mentally. Do I think Lindsey had any intention of hurting her physically? No. Do I suspect it may have happen? Sure, but I wasn't there so your guess is as good as mine. He borderlined obsession with her for years, IMO and she him because they never had a clear ending. Love can be a savior and love can be a monster -- I think their love for each other took on multiple rolls and caused the blowup. However, I doubt this was the only "big fight" but it's the only one you hear of, courtesy of Mick (whom I think had his on coked out spin on it).


:nod: Agreed. ...And Miss Nicks can instigate someone over the edge, I'm sure.

[Nixxxed]

My gut feeling is that there were a lot more physical altercations between the two of them. I remember one time Stevie was talking about attending the 'Purple Rain' premiere and she said she had to get up and leave when she saw Prince slap Apolonia whats-her-name in the movie. That was before the Tango fight on the car.

Then there was Lindsey's next girlfriend who came out on Geraldo or whichever Donahue clone show was big at the time and said he smacked her around as well. He allegedly yelled at her "you are all the same".

Plus 'Wild Heart' has always seemed to me like an anthem for battered women. So much blame, danger...and fighting. I love it though.
There's also the incident of Lindsey throwing a Les Paul guitar at Stevie (at some point).

She mentioned it in one of the SYW interviews, about how they could now laugh about all those crazy fights.

But still...

[vermicious knid]

He ended up chasing me all the way out of Christine’s maze like house and down the street and then back up the street and then he threw me against the car and I screamed horrible obscenities
That's awesome! If the Fleetwood Mac story were a movie like Gone With the Wind, this would be akin to scenes like Scarlett falling down the stairs, or getting attacked at the shantytown. I love it.

One thing written about the fight in Mick's book is apparently not true, though. Lindsey speaking to BAM magazine (http://www.fleetwoodmac.net/penguin/archive/musician.htm):
I was very unhappy with a couple of very specific incidents described in there, which were totally untrue. I never responded to it. I didn't think there was any reason to dignify it. But there was one story that had me slapping Stevie when I said I was leaving the band. The next time I saw Stevie after that, she came up to me, and said, 'God, I'm really sorry he wrote that.' She was apologizing to me for something he wrote...

But other than that, I thing we can let our imagination run wild about that night. John McVie corroberates the fierceness of the fight in the interview (http://www.nicksfix.com/transcription_rock_family_trees.htm) that mentions the fight.

John McVie:


It got ugly...physically ugly..(John mimes strangling someone).

Maybe there was not slapping, but I'd still like to get some popcorn and see video of that fight!

[glitter_fades]

I found some quotes from Stevie about a fight between her and Lindsey. I think this was 87. If anyone has the audio to this, can you link it or post it because I can't seem to? This is pretty scary. Woah. I think if anyone thought she never regretted smiling at him..well. I know he kicked her on stage during one of the Tusk shows but is he a violent person? Is she? This blew me away. (Oh and if he had killed her, her family and the band would have to get in line behind me!)

Because of that guilt I have always had about not leaving Fleetwood Mac, flew off of the couch and across the room to seriously attack him. And I did. I mean, and I’m not real scary but I can be fairly ferocious. And I grabbed him, you know, which almost got me killed.

He ended up chasing me all the way out of Christine’s maze like house and down the street and then back up the street and then he threw me against the car and I screamed horrible obscenities at him and uh I thought he was going to kill me and I think he probably thought he was going to kill me, too. And um, I said to him “you know if the rest of the..if the rest of the people in the band don’t get you, my family will. My dad and my brother will kill you.”

Could anyone show me in this quote from Stevie where she says Lindsey hurt her? You all want to discuss what a violent person he is but where are the posts about Stevie's apparent violent streak?. She not only started this altercation, she seems to be the only one who committed any real violence according to her own words. This is what she said, again, incase you didn't read it the first time.

flew off of the couch and across the room to seriously attack him. And I did.

I can be fairly ferocious.

I grabbed him, you know, which almost got me killed

he threw me against the car and I screamed horrible obscenities at him and uh I thought he was going to kill me


No excusing a guy throwing a girl onto a car, but she never says she got hurt. She says she thought he would kill her. She attacked him and it almost got her killed? How? He chased her around? If she was all over him as ferociously as she says, where was everyone else and why wasn't anyone putting a stop to what she was doing before this got out of hand? If somebody flew off a couch and attacked my son, I would expect him to use the least amount of force necessary to get himself out of that situation. Maybe Lindsey should never have gone there that day to talk about the final agreement on the tour? He had not yet signed anything agreeing to anything, becasue if he had he would have been sued for sure. He did the album because Mick was bankrupt and needed the money. Mick thanked him by not only trying to force him into a tour he said from the beginning he didn't want to do, he also slanted the story of this altercation after the fact. I believe Stevie's account more than I do Mick's. The true facts are that Mick and Chris knew from the beginning of the album that Lindsey wasn't going on the tour. Did anyone bother telling Stevie before she got out of rehab and joined the band in the studio?

There is so much more to this story than anyone will ever know, but to keep reading fans hash over the same slanted crap is getting nauseating. Does anyone really believe this altercation was because Lindsey wanted to ruin the tour and waited until the last minute to say, "hey, I quit, and can I kill Stevie for fun on my way out?" The more likely scenerio according to what was happening at the time is that Mick went against Lindsey's original wishes not to tour and put the screws to him to do it at the 11th hour. He likely never told Stevie Lindsey was leaving the band. After working so hard at going to rehab his leaving was probably a shock to her and she reacted badly. I think she knows this because as soon as it was over and he left, she called him and asked him if he wanted her to quit too. She asked if he wanted to do Buckingham Nicks again. Why would she do that if he was so violent to her? Wasn't she afraid he would kill her if he ever got her alone without the others in the band? She was taking a big chance asking him those questions.

I remember reading in early '87 Lindsey was not planning to tour. He agreed to make the album. Why did he change his mind and then change it back? Stevie probably knows why. That's probably what is at the heart of the altercation that took place. She obviously didn't want him to quit and her reaction to the news was out of line, no matter how long she felt she was loyal to the band after she went solo. She had no right to do what she did, as well as for him to do what he did. If they have forgiven each other for what happened, why are fans always rehashing this? :shrug: Just curious.

[Mokona]

My opinion isn't objective because honestly I can't stand Lindsey. There, I said it. :sorry: His guitar playing is great and FM wouldn't be the same without him, but otherwise, he's a jerk IMO.

As for the violence, I believe it happened. I also believe Stevie probably contributed to it. But who wouldn't? I'd never take that s**t from him. I'd have heaved a paperweight in his direction and kneed him where it hurts. My husband and I get along well, but there is no way I'd ever take any crap from him. Stevie shouldn't have taken any from Lindsey either.

(Of course this is coming from someone who has a really nasty temper when my buttons are pushed. :D)

[EnchantedStorms]

As for the violence, I believe it happened. I also believe Stevie probably contributed to it. But who wouldn't? I'd never take that s**t from him. I'd have heaved a paperweight in his direction and kneed him where it hurts. My husband and I get along well, but there is no way I'd ever take any crap from him. Stevie shouldn't have taken any from Lindsey either.


But he should have from her? She admitted she was the one that started it by flying off the couch at him...seems to me he was reacting to what she did. Neither one of them should have gotten physical with the other, and her starting it doesn't excuse him from what he did...but him changing his mind about something doesn't excuse her, either, IMO, no matter how much it may have hurt her emotionally. :)

[glitter_fades]

My opinion isn't objective because honestly I can't stand Lindsey. There, I said it. :sorry: His guitar playing is great and FM wouldn't be the same without him, but otherwise, he's a jerk IMO.

As for the violence, I believe it happened. I also believe Stevie probably contributed to it. But who wouldn't? I'd never take that s**t from him. I'd have heaved a paperweight in his direction and kneed him where it hurts. My husband and I get along well, but there is no way I'd ever take any crap from him. Stevie shouldn't have taken any from Lindsey either.

(Of course this is coming from someone who probably needs anger management herself. :D)

I agree. She never should have taken any crap from him. Why do you think she called him when it was over? If he's so insufferable and such a jerk, why did she call him and ask if he wanted her to quit the band too? Why do you think she asked him about going back to what they started? She asked him if he wanted to do Buckingham Nicks again. Why would she call and ask him that? He was so horrible to her, right? She should have been afraid to work with him under any conditions let alone without the rest of the band there to protect her. Sounds strange to my ears. Maybe Stevie just likes to be mistreated? Perhaps he isn't the brute she tends to portray when she's upset with him?

:shrug:

[gldstwmn]

Abuse is a funny thing (well, strange funny): sometimes it can be a once off event, sometimes it becomes a habitual response to any situation.
With two women having mentioned Lindsey's violent behaviour it wouldn't surprise me if it's the latter, rather than him reacting to Stevie - although she could certainly have provoked him into certain irrational responses.

Rampant drug use by all parties certainly doesn't help, either.

[gldstwmn]

Well, iff we can trust him, in Mick's account of the incident he says that Lindsey had done it before, if I remember.

- Jake

Yup. He did.

[gldstwmn]

I think there was an article about this around the time SYW was released.

There was and Lindsey said he "didn't remember."

[Glittermoondust]

Rampant drug use by all parties certainly doesn't help, either.

You took the words right out of my mouth :laugh: Although I was trying to refrain from bringing up the drug thing--so I'm glad you said it instead!! :lol:

[gldstwmn]

. Also, according to the book, Christine gets backstage & yells at Lindsey: "Don't you ever do this to this band again."

And then she supposedly poured her glass of wine over his head. :lol:

[GardenStateGirlie]

I remember reading in early '87 Lindsey was not planning to tour. He agreed to make the album. Why did he change his mind and then change it back? Stevie probably knows why. That's probably what is at the heart of the altercation that took place. She obviously didn't want him to quit and her reaction to the news was out of line, no matter how long she felt she was loyal to the band after she went solo. She had no right to do what she did, as well as for him to do what he did.



Annnd once again, glitter hits the nail on the head. I agree that his leaving the band upset her a great deal and was more than likely the catalyst for this argument. IMO, she would have been the one to change his mind and then something must have set him off to change it again and take the final steps to leaving the band -- I wouldn't be surprised if it were her downward spiral at the time that aided his decision.

[Mokona]

But he should have from her? She admitted she was the one that started it by flying off the couch at him...seems to me he was reacting to what she did. Neither one of them should have gotten physical with the other, and her starting it doesn't excuse him from what he did...but him changing his mind about something doesn't excuse her, either, IMO, no matter how much it may have hurt her emotionally.No, she shouldn't have started it, but considering she's a tiny 5'1 and he's 5'10 or whatever, he should've tried to restrain himself. She's pretty tiny and I can't see her defending herself against him that well. Not that it's an excuse...both parties were in the wrong.

I agree. She never should have taken any crap from him. Why do you think she called him when it was over? If he's so insufferable and such a jerk, why did she call him and ask if he wanted her to quit the band too? Why do you think she asked him about going back to what they started? She asked him if he wanted to do Buckingham Nicks again. Why would she call and ask him that? He was so horrible to her, right? She should have been afraid to work with him under any conditions let alone without the rest of the band there to protect her. Sounds strange to my ears. Maybe Stevie just likes to be mistreated? Perhaps he isn't the brute she tends to portray when she's upset with him?I don't know. Stevie seems self-destructive in alot of ways. I mean that with concern. The cocaine, Klonopin, smoking, etc. I'm sure there are more. A lot of abused women (not saying Stevie was) can't leave their spouses/significant others for whatever reason. Stevie just seems like she was and maybe still is stuck on Lindsey. In fairy land, they are the perfect couple, but in reality, I think she's better off without him. I can't see her attraction to him, but then again I don't know the man. I've formed my opinion on him from articles and interviews I've seen. He just seems extremely jerky.

No offense to Lindsey fans. We all have our opinions.

[Johnny Stew]

After working so hard at going to rehab his leaving was probably a shock to her and she reacted badly. I think she knows this because as soon as it was over and he left, she called him and asked him if he wanted her to quit too. She asked if he wanted to do Buckingham Nicks again. I'm not really interested in the Stevie vs. Lindsey argument again, but I just wanted to comment on the above paragraph.
You've mentioned in about three (that I've noticed) posts now about Stevie calling Lindsey after he had left Fleetwood Mac, to ask if he wanted to do another Buckingham Nicks. I posted a reply last time you brought it up, but you may have missed it... the only quote that anyone can find from Lindsey about Stevie broaching the subject of a second Buckingham Nicks, is from an interview in Cream magazine conducted before that altercation and Lindsey leaving the band.

Just want to clear that up.

[Phoenix]

And people say there aren't gentlemen anymore. :cool: ;)

Romy

Not that I wanna make this a lindsy haters thread, But one of my favorite Fleetwood Mac quotes of all time is where Cristine says that lindsy is the only person that shes ever acually slapped!! :laugh:

[Johnny Stew]

By the way, I've never once read an interview with Lindsey where he said Stevie called him to ask if she should leave.
I've read a Nicks interview where she said she realized later that she probably should have left when he did, but I don't recall Lindsey ever saying she called him to ask if she should or that they had even discussed that subject back in 1987.

But... I'd love to read a direct quote, if anyone has one.

[glitter_fades]

I'm not really interested in the Stevie vs. Lindsey argument again, but I just wanted to comment on the above paragraph.
You've mentioned in about three (that I've noticed) posts now about Stevie calling Lindsey after he had left Fleetwood Mac, to ask if he wanted to do another Buckingham Nicks. I posted a reply last time you brought it up, but you may have missed it... the only quote that anyone can find from Lindsey about Stevie broaching the subject of a second Buckingham Nicks, is from an intereview in Cream magazine conducted before that altercation and Lindsey leaving the band.

Just want to clear that up.

Like I've said before, you can cull up all the quotes you want from online sources. That doesn't change what I know. I don't recall that Cream thing. I'm not saying there is no article but that's not what I'm talking about. Stevie did call him after he quit. Why would she ask if he wanted her to leave too if he hadn't left yet? Cream is just one source. Just because it's the only thing you can find online doesn't mean that's accurate for when it happened or that it's all the info there ever was on that subject back when it occurred .

Oh, and as far as bringing up this subject before, that wasn't me. Other fans know this info so I'm not surprised somebody else brought it up. It wasn't me. I've confirmed knowing this but somebody else brought it up originally.

:wavey:

[Johnny Stew]

Like I've said before, you can cull up all the quotes you want from online sources. That doesn't change what I know. I don't recall that Cream thing. I'm not saying there is no article but that's not what I'm talking about. Stevie did call him after he quit. Why would she ask if he wanted her to leave too if he hadn't left yet? Cream is just one source. Just because it's the only thing you can find online doesn't mean that's accurate for when it happened or that it's all the info there ever was on that subject back when it occurred.So, your argument boils down to... "direct quotes from the people actually involved mean nothing when I just know"?

Well, that's good enough for me then!

(By the way, I don't recall you ever broaching the subject until after Stephanie, I believe it was, mentioned that she recalled having read it. In fact, you asked once or twice why no one ever commented on Stephanie's recollection.)

[glitter_fades]

By the way, I've never once read an interview with Lindsey where he said Stevie called him to ask if she should leave.
I've read a Nicks interview where she said she realized later that she probably should have left when he did, but I don't recall Lindsey ever saying she called him to ask if she should or that they had even discussed that subject back in 1987.

But... I'd love to read a direct quote, if anyone has one.

Sadly, the world did not begin with online archives, ya know. If you want to base everything you believe only on what you read online I can't keep arguing. Just because you can't dig up info on Mick and Stevie's affair before Mick's book, doesn't mean nobody knew about it before the book. Everybody knew. I knew. A lot of other fans knew. We also knew about Stevie having the you know what from her affair with Don Henley. That was also known before Henley blabbed in GQ. A lot of info is known around the fan base that is not readily available online.
What can I say? Believe what you want.

:wavey:

[Johnny Stew]

Sadly, the world did not begin with online archives, ya know. If you want to base everything you believe only on what you read online I can't keep arguing. Just because you can't dig up info on Mick and Stevie's affair before Mick's book, doesn't mean nobody knew about it before the book. Everybody knew. I knew. A lot of other fans knew. We also knew about Stevie having the you know what from her affair with Don Henley. That was also known before Henley blabbed in GQ. A lot of info is known around the fan base that is not readily available online.
What can I say? Believe what you want.I've been a fan since 1985/86... many of the articles I've read over the years were from magazines I own or read at the library.
In fact, I have that issue of Cream magazine with Lindsey talking about Stevie calling him regarding a second Buckingham Nicks, sitting right here on my desk.

I don't apologize for requesting actual direct quotes from the band members before I "believe" something, instead of simply relying on the recollections of fans who gleaned their information from hearsay and speculation, and whose only rebuttal is that they "just know." :shrug:

"Believe none of what you hear, and only half of what you see."

[David]

Annnd once again, glitter hits the nail on the head. I agree that his leaving the band upset her a great deal and was more than likely the catalyst for this argument. IMO, she would have been the one to change his mind and then something must have set him off to change it again and take the final steps to leaving the band -- I wouldn't be surprised if it were her downward spiral at the time that aided his decision.I think it was Stevie's downward spiral, Mick's downward spiral & John's downward spiral. It was a combination of all three. Despite the fact that Lindsey & Chris spoke happily about making the "Tango" album at the time, most fans had no idea it was so fractured & so horrendous until years later, but it apparently was. (When Lindsey told the audience at Tough on Toxics that making the album had been a "healing thing," WE BELIEVED HIM!) Mick was a royal jerk at Lindsey's house, John was probably uselessly drunk throughout his tenure at the Slope (Lindsey even recorded some of the bass parts for the album) & Stevie of course was incommunicado for most of those months, but when she did show up seemed to exude something that Lindsey & even the others didn't care for. Maybe out of her nervousness about how they would treat her, she acted diva-like as a defense mechanism.

I take Lindsey at his word that problems in the studio for HIM are compounded ten times for HIM, & that he never wanted to tour, but when the screws were put to him, he wasn't as strong about refusing as he hoped he could be.

I'm sure we've all been in situations where people who haven't been terribly nice to us are nevertheless approaching us to do them a favor, & we really wish they'd just go away. I know I have.

Actually, what Lindsey should have done was let the band bring in Jason Casaro or Nigel what's-his-name from Chic to produce the album, & then adamantly refused to tour.

By the way, Timothy White -- who was always fairly reliable & fairly good at setting the accurate tone -- wrote that piece on FM in Musician in 1989, & the atmosphere in Fleetwood Mac he describes that August 1987 was not an atmosphere that was empathetic to Lindsey Buckingham. In fact, the article opens with Stevie Nicks "spitting mad," & claiming that "If he tries to hang up this band at this point, he's in for a rude awakening." (I can't remember Stevie's quote so I paraphrase)

[darklinensuit]

By the way, Timothy White -- who was always fairly reliable & fairly good at setting the accurate tone -- wrote that piece on FM in Musician in 1989, & the atmosphere in Fleetwood Mac he describes that August 1987 was not an atmosphere that was empathetic to Lindsey Buckingham. In fact, the article opens with Stevie Nicks "spitting mad," & claiming that "If he tries to hang up this band at this point, he's in for a rude awakening." (I can't remember Stevie's quote so I paraphrase)

I remember reading that in the Rock Lives book. I think she talks about this new song Whole Lotta Trouble. Wow, a lifetime ago.

- Jake

[gldstwmn]

Actually, what Lindsey should have done was let the band bring in Jason Casaro or Nigel what's-his-name from Chic to produce

Nile Rodgers. He had just produced a string of hot records around that time including Bowie, INXS, Duran Duran, Madonna (Like A Virgin), Thompson Twins and Peter Gabriel. It would have been interesting to see what he could have done with the Mac or what was left of it at that point.

[GardenStateGirlie]

Maybe out of her nervousness about how they would treat her, she acted diva-like as a defense mechanism.


I tend to agree with you on this. I recall the whole request for the trailer out front of Lindsey's house while they recorded (when she would show up) -- unfortunately, what she wouldn't know until much later, it really made her the outsider. I can just imagine Lindsey being at his wits end trying to piece it all together and feeling that once again, it's left on his shoulders. Of course, knowing Lindsey as we all do, he wouldn't want it any other way :cool:

[henryscutter]

I think it was Stevie's downward spiral, Mick's downward spiral & John's downward spiral. It was a combination of all three. Despite the fact that Lindsey & Chris spoke happily about making the "Tango" album at the time, most fans had no idea it was so fractured & so horrendous until years later, but it apparently was. (When Lindsey told the audience at Tough on Toxics that making the album had been a "healing thing," WE BELIEVED HIM!) Mick was a royal jerk at Lindsey's house, John was probably uselessly drunk throughout his tenure at the Slope (Lindsey even recorded some of the bass parts for the album) & Stevie of course was incommunicado for most of those months, but when she did show up seemed to exude something that Lindsey & even the others didn't care for. Maybe out of her nervousness about how they would treat her, she acted diva-like as a defense mechanism.

I take Lindsey at his word that problems in the studio for HIM are compounded ten times for HIM, & that he never wanted to tour, but when the screws were put to him, he wasn't as strong about refusing as he hoped he could be.

I'm sure we've all been in situations where people who haven't been terribly nice to us are nevertheless approaching us to do them a favor, & we really wish they'd just go away. I know I have.

Actually, what Lindsey should have done was let the band bring in Jason Casaro or Nigel what's-his-name from Chic to produce the album, & then adamantly refused to tour.

By the way, Timothy White -- who was always fairly reliable & fairly good at setting the accurate tone -- wrote that piece on FM in Musician in 1989, & the atmosphere in Fleetwood Mac he describes that August 1987 was not an atmosphere that was empathetic to Lindsey Buckingham. In fact, the article opens with Stevie Nicks "spitting mad," & claiming that "If he tries to hang up this band at this point, he's in for a rude awakening." (I can't remember Stevie's quote so I paraphrase)

Yes, obviously there was a lot sh** going on then and emotions were running high. If this were an isolated incident I would just blame it all on the intensity of the moment. In his book Mick says that Lindsey had control over Stevie and that Lindsey had hit her in the past. Some people might not believe Mick, but it is also possible that he was holding back on that subject. Really, if what Mick was saying was such a lie why would Lindsey ever befriend him again? Then there is Carol Ann's story and his other girlfriend who legally can't talk about their relationship. He has said before that he had a "short fuse" and I tend to think that is why Stevie left him. That being said I think he changed a lot in the mid 90's and I still like and respect him.

[Mageboy25]

A trailer in front of Lindsey's house LOL! I never heard that before. Dear God, was there not a room in Lindsey's house where Stevie felt comfortable.

This is what I love about the Ledge. Everyday I come here and learn something new and trashy. Gee I would love to see how they decorated this trailer lol.

[lagringader&r]

Yes, obviously there was a lot sh** going on then and emotions were running high. If this were an isolated incident I would just blame it all on the intensity of the moment. In his book Mick says that Lindsey had control over Stevie and that Lindsey had hit her in the past. Some people might not believe Mick, but it is also possible that he was holding back on that subject. Really, if what Mick was saying was such a lie why would Lindsey ever befriend him again? Then there is Carol Ann's story and his other girlfriend who legally can't talk about their relationship. He has said before that he had a "short fuse" and I tend to think that is why Stevie left him. That being said I think he changed a lot in the mid 90's and I still like and respect him.

You all have probably talked about this before, but it's news to me. It seems pretty obvious that this wasn't one isolated thing from what Mick said about Lindsey abusing her before this one incident, her having to walk out of a movie to avoid watching a woman be abused, Lindsey's girlfriend claiming he abused her too and why can't the other girlfriend legally talk about their relationship??? I don't think I know that story yet. I can't write it off as "two passionate people". I think it sucks. Stevie is a tiny little woman and when she said she could be "fairly ferocious" I don't get the feeling she meant physically. I think she has a mouth on her and can probably spew insults with the best of them, but I don't get the feeling she's a chick that likes to punch a guy out. I agree with Romy and a few others (Mokona) that I think he's a killer (excuse the pun) musician, but I don't know what to think of him as a man. I haven't read Mick's book, but what I read in this thread shocked me and I'm not that easily shocked. Thank gawd she left him.

I still am curious to know why the other girlfriend can't legally talk about their relationship???

[paperflowers]

Agreed. But for what it's worth, Stevie sounds like she takes responsibility for her part in the escalation in this interview.

- Jake


I agree with you. That is why I take her account as accurate even given her Klonipine issues at the time. I guess it was a case of mutual battery, mutual meltdown.
I work in law enforcement and given what she said, they would both be charged with assault if not domestic violence under the Ohio’s laws.
I’m so conflicted about this whole scene, especially given the NZ incident and other accounts of his temper. Ultimately, I feel he was the “sober” one, the rational one even though Stevie initiated the conflict he should have never hit her, period.

This also raises questions regarding Stevie’s reaction.
Was she surprised that he would actually quit the tour? Was there some kind of agreement that they would never leave the band without the other, why was she that pissed? He had to give some indication to her that he wasn’t comfortable with this tour.

Do the lyrics:
I didn't ask when you shook your head
I always accepted what you said
As the truth and the truth only
Well it's not enough that you depend on me
And it's not enough that you say you love me
It's not enough to just save face
Because sometimes
You just fall from grace
Sometimes
You just fall from grace

Have anything to do with that day?

In GDW live she sings:Wake up in the morning
See your sunrise--loves--to go down “you don’t want to see it” is this a reference to his temper?



What if anything has Lindsey said about the incident? I think he said Mick’s version was exaggerated but has he ever given his account of the episode?

[Kelly]

Thanks for posting the links to those. I wonder what her being on Klonopin at the time had anything to do with the fight or what she said, though. I don't think Stevie was so out of it that she made any of it up or embellished or whatever. jbrownsjr said there were alleged concerns about Lindsey respecting women and I'm really curious to know what those are, other than what I've already heard about the Tusk kick? No disrespect meant, but for those that think Stevie should be with Lindsey, ugh. I don't think so.


I take it you have formulated your opinion on what type of man Lindsey is based on a few quotes from Stevie? Oh and the New Zealand incident. It appears he had a temper but there are two sides to every story.

BTW..of course this thread will be fifty pages long by tomorrow, with all kinds of fighting. That was the point, no?

[lagringader&r]

If you're looking to blow it out of proportion and demonise Lindsey as a dangerous, violent, wife (or girlfriend) beating arsehole then you will. A man should not hit a woman and a woman should not hit a man. But beyond that incident, I don't believe he's an angle, rather a man with flaws that have come to life on a few occasions. The fact that he addresses his flaws, combined with the lack of frequency and rampant ferocity of incidents leaves him far from the demon some seem intent on portraying him as. But again, if you want to believe he is this arsehole, you will.

I really don't have time to post this, but I will anyway. Not enough good Ledge time lately. Demonise Lindsey is kind of extreme, don't you think? But you call them flaws? Flaws are things like forgetting to put the cap back on the toothpaste or drinking milk out of the carton or picking your nose. Do you actually call abusing women a flaw? I just posted all this and so have others, but (according to Mick) Lindsey "had control over Stevie" and abused her or hit her, he hit another one of his girlfriends and another one can't legally talk about their relationship I'm really curious what that's about). Nobody's demonising Lindsey and like I said before, maybe this is something everybody here has talked about, but it's news to me. For this and other reasons, I don't know what to make of him. That's hardly demonising because I'm sure he doesn't care what *I* think about him.

[lagringader&r]

I take it you have formulated your opinion on what type of man Lindsey is based on a few quotes from Stevie? Oh and the New Zealand incident. It appears he had a temper but there are two sides to every story.

BTW..of course this thread will be fifty pages long by tomorrow, with all kinds of fighting. That was the point, no?

Why would you have an attitude toward me? I've asked you questions in posts before, all of which you have ignored. I really don't know why because I don't even know who you are.

If you read my posts, I've said over and over that this is new news to me and I'm curious about it. It may be old news to you. Why would I want 50 pages of fighting? Who are you and why did you say that? I really want to know your bone with me.

[Kelly]

Another point....when is the last angry incident we have? 1987? Do we have any more recent ones? People do grow and change and Lindsey has expressed that. Stevie has described Lindsey in the last few years as "gentler, softer, sweeter". If these are qualities Stevie is observing in Lindsey, perhaps she knows something more about him than we do?
"maybe now he could prove to her, that he could be good for her".

No, I do not think that line from FFG is about his temper. I think the entire FFG song is about one incident, she described writing about in Nashville.

In GDW..."your sunrise loves to go down..you dont want to see it"........your happiness loves to go away...you dont want that to happen...sunrise, light equals love. You don't want to see your love, light, happiness or sunrise go away. That is what I get from it.

[mylittledemon]

I found some quotes from Stevie about a fight between her and Lindsey. I think this was 87. If anyone has the audio to this, can you link it or post it because I can't seem to? This is pretty scary. Woah. I think if anyone thought she never regretted smiling at him..well. I know he kicked her on stage during one of the Tusk shows but is he a violent person? Is she? This blew me away. (Oh and if he had killed her, her family and the band would have to get in line behind me!)

Because of that guilt I have always had about not leaving Fleetwood Mac, flew off of the couch and across the room to seriously attack him. And I did. I mean, and I’m not real scary but I can be fairly ferocious. And I grabbed him, you know, which almost got me killed.

He ended up chasing me all the way out of Christine’s maze like house and down the street and then back up the street and then he threw me against the car and I screamed horrible obscenities at him and uh I thought he was going to kill me and I think he probably thought he was going to kill me, too. And um, I said to him “you know if the rest of the..if the rest of the people in the band don’t get you, my family will. My dad and my brother will kill you.”

I have a feeling that it was just as much Stevie as it was Lindsey. You're talking 10 yrs of feelings that had probably been bottled up so that the band could continue. Hence, the reason Lindsey left the band. He always says it was a survival move for him. He probably physically could not be in her presence at all without the need to strangle her. I can understand that, and I think all of us can. And like Stevie has said many times you know when people break up they typically dont see each other anymore, they had to see each other all the time. I can only imagine how draining emotionally that was from Rumours to Tango. Stevie yelling and screaming at Lindsey probably just made him flip. Especially if she told Lindsey he was being selfish, and it felt it was something he needed to do to keep his sanity.

[Kelly]

Could anyone show me in this quote from Stevie where she says Lindsey hurt her? You all want to discuss what a violent person he is but where are the posts about Stevie's apparent violent streak?. She not only started this altercation, she seems to be the only one who committed any real violence according to her own words. This is what she said, again, incase you didn't read it the first time.




No excusing a guy throwing a girl onto a car, but she never says she got hurt. She says she thought he would kill her. She attacked him and it almost got her killed? How? He chased her around? If she was all over him as ferociously as she says, where was everyone else and why wasn't anyone putting a stop to what she was doing before this got out of hand? If somebody flew off a couch and attacked my son, I would expect him to use the least amount of force necessary to get himself out of that situation. Maybe Lindsey should never have gone there that day to talk about the final agreement on the tour? He had not yet signed anything agreeing to anything, becasue if he had he would have been sued for sure. He did the album because Mick was bankrupt and needed the money. Mick thanked him by not only trying to force him into a tour he said from the beginning he didn't want to do, he also slanted the story of this altercation after the fact. I believe Stevie's account more than I do Mick's. The true facts are that Mick and Chris knew from the beginning of the album that Lindsey wasn't going on the tour. Did anyone bother telling Stevie before she got out of rehab and joined the band in the studio?

There is so much more to this story than anyone will ever know, but to keep reading fans hash over the same slanted crap is getting nauseating. Does anyone really believe this altercation was because Lindsey wanted to ruin the tour and waited until the last minute to say, "hey, I quit, and can I kill Stevie for fun on my way out?" The more likely scenerio according to what was happening at the time is that Mick went against Lindsey's original wishes not to tour and put the screws to him to do it at the 11th hour. He likely never told Stevie Lindsey was leaving the band. After working so hard at going to rehab his leaving was probably a shock to her and she reacted badly. I think she knows this because as soon as it was over and he left, she called him and asked him if he wanted her to quit too. She asked if he wanted to do Buckingham Nicks again. Why would she do that if he was so violent to her? Wasn't she afraid he would kill her if he ever got her alone without the others in the band? She was taking a big chance asking him those questions.

I remember reading in early '87 Lindsey was not planning to tour. He agreed to make the album. Why did he change his mind and then change it back? Stevie probably knows why. That's probably what is at the heart of the altercation that took place. She obviously didn't want him to quit and her reaction to the news was out of line, no matter how long she felt she was loyal to the band after she went solo. She had no right to do what she did, as well as for him to do what he did. If they have forgiven each other for what happened, why are fans always rehashing this? :shrug: Just curious.

I could not agree more. The rehashing of this incident is nauseating.
Stevie strikes me as a very strong willed woman who takes no shit. Why would she call Lindsey up and apologize to him and then ask him if he wants her to quit to if she was so scared of him? If he was such a bad guy? Does she strike you as a battered woman? Get serious. Obviously she knows her part in that fight and has spoken out publically about her involvement. People overlook that and focus on Lindsey.
Emotional battery can be just as harmful, if not worse than chasing someone around a car. Playing head games, sending mixed messages, being hot and cold...takes its toll on people. Lindsey called her a "schizophrenic bith"...implying she had done some crazy things to him, too. I will say it again, Jess adores Lindsey. Most fathers would not love a man who abused their little girl. He knows them much better than all of us combined..if he trusts and respects Lindsey, if Stevie trusts and respects Lindsey, perhaps we should assume that Lindsey is not the volatile monster some of these posts portray him as? They both are drama queens, they are passionate, intense individuals. Do they still argue? Sure. Does Lindsey kick, taunt, throw her on cars, hurl guitars at her? No, in fact my bet is he goes to the other extreme and treats her with kid gloves.
From what I have heard from people, Lindsey treats her quite well.

[Tango]

They are both passionate people, which is why a number of fans seem so devoted to that relationship. Is he a violent person? Is she a violent person? No, probably no more than anyone else struggling with losing a relationship. They have both said how abnormal it was to be having to face each other every day, having to work on songs together for the good of "the band." Lindsey seemed torn about joining that band from the get go, not wanting to lose his own identity. Later, as members of the band seemed to totally disintegrate, due to drugs, alcohol, relationships, it's no wonder Lindsey wanted out. Losing Lindsey could effect the financial stability of all of them, but why would he want to stay on, backing a group that could barely function anymore. The impact: He might cause the break up of the band, their cash flow, their excesses, and how would they explain his leaving for the tour. They all lashed out at him. He said something about it being a life saving thing for himself. Who knows- maybe his leaving saved all their lives. They had to change. He was no longer an enabler.

"Say Goodbye" gives us a look behind the curtain of his feelings, as he writes to Stevie:

Say Goodbye

So you face yesterday
Thinking on the days of old
And the price that we paid
For a love we couldn't hold


I let you slip away
There was nothing I could do
That was so long ago, yeah
Still I often think of you


I fall down, I get up
And I've always had to fight
Everything that was wrong
For the things that were right


Now I finally found my way
Now I know just what to do
Once you said goodbye to me, yeah
Now I say goodbye to you


It's so hard to find your way
When the lies come around
Still it happens everyday
So don't let it get you down


Just a time within a time
Just a scheme within a scheme
A little world within a world
Yes, a dream, just a dream


Now I finally found my way
Now I know just what to do
Once you said goodbye to me, yeah
Now I say goodbye to you


Now I best be on my way
Before the night turns blue
Once you said goodbye to me, yeah
And now I say goodbye to you
Once you said goodbye to me, yeah
Now I say goodbye to you.

[xxxmx]

He has said before that he had a "short fuse" and I tend to think that is why Stevie left him.

i think the short fuse is what stevie left him with.

haven't you ever known a person who you just love to be around, and then a little while later it seems like they are just out to make your life suck? and then every single thing they do just smacks of i-hate-you but they won't just go away? and you try to tell this person that you'd rather they not hang around, it's not the same, i'm not into this? and they just don't get it? and then it seems like they start parading around right in front of you, doing these things that they know you just hate? and it's so in your face, but you can't hate them for it because you used to love them so much? and then you become not-nice and suddenly they don't want you around them, but it's gone too far already and you're both stuck there together in this ugly, lonely place?

i'm not excusing violence. from what i've read, it took two to tango and neither he nor she is blameless. i think they feed off of one another: anger, joy, jealousy, contentment, passion, frustration... all of it.

[strandinthewind]

. . .
I still am curious to know why the other girlfriend can't legally talk about their relationship???


That is fairly common in a Hollywood breakup. She most likely got a cash settlement and in return obligated herself not to speak of their relationship.

[GardenStateGirlie]

Another point....when is the last angry incident we have? 1987? Do we have any more recent ones? People do grow and change and Lindsey has expressed that. Stevie has described Lindsey in the last few years as "gentler, softer, sweeter". If these are qualities Stevie is observing in Lindsey, perhaps she knows something more about him than we do?
"maybe now he could prove to her, that he could be good for her".

No, I do not think that line from FFG is about his temper. I think the entire FFG song is about one incident, she described writing about in Nashville.

In GDW..."your sunrise loves to go down..you dont want to see it"........your happiness loves to go away...you dont want that to happen...sunrise, light equals love. You don't want to see your love, light, happiness or sunrise go away. That is what I get from it.

I agree 100%. She has done nothing but sing of his praises for the past few years -- in fact, since 1997 when they reunited for The Dance. It was at that point that it seems they put the bitterness of the past and the competition with each other aside and instead, focused on learning to trust one another again. I'm sure they were a work in progress and even now, continue to be. However, she has never once mentioned anything negative about him to my knowledge in the last past 8 or 9 years.

"Falling down in a crystal ball, into crystal stairs -- i'm doing the same things over and over -- going in for repairs..." (demo version of FFG) I certainly don't think FFG is about his temper -- at all -- so again, I agree with you there.

As far as GDW is concerned, I hadn't really thought about it in those terms but that's certainly a good explaination for it :nod:

[gldstwmn]

Yes, obviously there was a lot sh** going on then and emotions were running high. If this were an isolated incident I would just blame it all on the intensity of the moment. In his book Mick says that Lindsey had control over Stevie and that Lindsey had hit her in the past. Some people might not believe Mick, but it is also possible that he was holding back on that subject. Really, if what Mick was saying was such a lie why would Lindsey ever befriend him again? Then there is Carol Ann's story and his other girlfriend who legally can't talk about their relationship. He has said before that he had a "short fuse" and I tend to think that is why Stevie left him. That being said I think he changed a lot in the mid 90's and I still like and respect him.

I think he also admitted to doing a lot of work in therapy.

[gldstwmn]

I still am curious to know why the other girlfriend can't legally talk about their relationship???

Purely conjecture on my part but there may have been a settlement. :shrug:

[David]

I’m so conflicted about this whole scene, especially given the NZ incident and other accounts of his temper.The "NZ incident" wasn't an account of his temper; it was an account of his drinking.
This also raises questions regarding Stevie’s reaction. Was she surprised that he would actually quit the tour?I seriously doubt it.
Was there some kind of agreement that they would never leave the band without the other, why was she that pissed?Of course not. The two of them had barely spoken to each other for about four years. This whole "leave the band without the other" has been blown waaaay out of proportion if not downright concocted.
He had to give some indication to her that he wasn’t comfortable with this tour.The whole band knew that Lindsey produced "Tango" under duress & did not want to tour at all. That's why they put the screws to him. He even went to see a psychiatrist at that point.

[gldstwmn]

Another point....when is the last angry incident we have? 1987?

The fight in the Destiny Rules doc.

[gldstwmn]

No, I do not think that line from FFG is about his temper. I think the entire FFG song is about one incident, she described writing about in Nashville.



So there was an incident in Nashville? I'm totally :confused: now.

[gldstwmn]

"Say Goodbye" gives us a look behind the curtain of his feelings, as he writes to Stevie:

Say Goodbye

So you face yesterday


that's funny. I always thought that line was Saw your face yesterday. The one word change gives me a completely different take on it.

[GardenStateGirlie]

The fight in the Destiny Rules doc.

In which she exclaims, "LET THEM FIGHT IT OUT!" I don't think she wanted to fight with him about the mix -- she wanted Karen to duke it out. Again, they know how to work each others nerves and I think a lot of times, they'll say things to one another to garner a certain reaction. JMO based purely on speculation, of course.

[jbrownsjr]

My curiosity is killing me. You said women, but do you mean other alleged things like this with Stevie? Or other women?


Carol Ann Harris accused LB of beating the shit out of her as well. I can't remember the TV show she was on. But she did.

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

that's funny. I always thought that line was Saw your face yesterday. The one word change gives me a completely different take on it.
I thought it was 'Saw your face....' That's how it sounds to me and it says that in the liner notes as well..

Pip

[jbrownsjr]

Carol Ann Harris went on the old Geraldo Rivera daytime tv show and said that Lindsey hit her or abused her or some such thing.


ok yes, this is what i was talking about....

[jbrownsjr]

And then she supposedly poured her glass of wine over his head. :lol:

it would have been funny if Christine kicked LB's ass! :]

[gldstwmn]

I thought it was 'Saw your face....' That's how it sounds to me and it says that in the liner notes as well..

Pip

It does? So I'm not as hard of hearing as I thought. :laugh: Thanks Pip.

[gldstwmn]

In which she exclaims, "LET THEM FIGHT IT OUT!" I don't think she wanted to fight with him about the mix -- she wanted Karen to duke it out. Again, they know how to work each others nerves and I think a lot of times, they'll say things to one another to garner a certain reaction. JMO based purely on speculation, of course.

Their voices were raised and they were clearly angry with each other. But if to say they were not arguing with each other in that clip then okay. :xoxo:

[jbrownsjr]

That is fairly common in a Hollywood breakup. She most likely got a cash settlement and in return obligated herself not to speak of their relationship.

my thoughts exactly

i live out here :angel:

[SteveMacD]

Obviously the fight was more than Lindsey quitting Fleetwood Mac. It was about the definate ending of the relationship between Stevie and Lindsey. It was the end of nearly twenty crazy years of making music together. And, it was the definate end of their relationship. Sure, they both said it was over, but they WERE still single, and there was that ounce of hope that they COULD still get back together. This incident shattered any hope of getting back together. The McVies had the advantage of the divorce. It was in writing that their marriage was over, there was a definate date as to when it was over, and they were able to move on with their lives, while still being friendly with each other.

In terms of the phone calls Stevie made to Lindsey about also quitting the band and possibly making Buckingham Nicks II, I'm with Stew, in that I believe these calls were made prior to Lindsey's departure from Fleetwood Mac. He had been hinting all along that "Tango" was the last project he'd be involved with in Fleetwood Mac. Stevie probably saw the writing on the wall, and wanted to know if he wanted to get the old band back together. I don't think she understood that she was his problem.

According to Mick's book, at one time, Lindsey DID agree to the tour. However, he gradually began pulling out of the tour. So, Lindsey DOES deserve some of the blame. He should never have written a check he wasn't willing to cash.

As for what Mick said about multiple accounts of abuse, that's not at all how I read it. Yes, here it is, the paragraph that rocked Fleetwood Mac:

Then it got physical. Lindsey grabbed Stevie and slapped her and bent her backwards over the hood of his car. Was he going to hit her again? He'd done it before. Suddenly Dennis Dunstan and Stevie's Manager Tony Dimitriades pulled Lindsey off her and told him that was enough. Lindsey then came back into the house, very distraught. He shouted "Get that woman out of my life-that schizophrenic bitch!"

So the way I read it is that they were wondering if Lindsey was going to slap her a second time. I didn't get that Mick was saying that there was a history of abuse. I also noticed that the managers DID get involved, which disputes an earlier post. Incidentally, did you notice that Stevie's then manager is Lindsey's current manager? Hmmmm.

[Janet]

I found some quotes from Stevie about a fight between her and Lindsey. I think this was 87. If anyone has the audio to this, can you link it or post it because I can't seem to? This is pretty scary. Woah. I think if anyone thought she never regretted smiling at him..well. I know he kicked her on stage during one of the Tusk shows but is he a violent person? Is she? This blew me away. (Oh and if he had killed her, her family and the band would have to get in line behind me!)

Because of that guilt I have always had about not leaving Fleetwood Mac, flew off of the couch and across the room to seriously attack him. And I did. I mean, and I’m not real scary but I can be fairly ferocious. And I grabbed him, you know, which almost got me killed.

He ended up chasing me all the way out of Christine’s maze like house and down the street and then back up the street and then he threw me against the car and I screamed horrible obscenities at him and uh I thought he was going to kill me and I think he probably thought he was going to kill me, too. And um, I said to him “you know if the rest of the..if the rest of the people in the band don’t get you, my family will. My dad and my brother will kill you.”

Personally, a sick side of myself loves this. THey are ok now, no one killed each other but that drama! That is the best. I mean those feelings...that's why we still get the chemistry and lyrics, because those two people cared about each other ALOT. You can't get that mad at someone you have no feelings for...

[SteveMacD]

Personally, a sick side of myself loves this.
Me too. Given how they were dressing at the time, it really has a Dynasty quality about it. I'm just glad it was Stevie and Lindsey, not Stevie and Christine, or that would have totally had an Alexis-Krystle vibe about it.

[Johnny Stew]

This whole "leave the band without the other" has been blown waaaay out of proportion if not downright concocted.Thank you, David, for being a voice of reason.

One person, a few months ago, swore she recalled reading something, and without any concrete evidence to prove it, that recollection has still quickly become accepted as fact.

It's kind of baffling really.

I'm with Stew, in that I believe these calls were made prior to Lindsey's departure from Fleetwood Mac.Thanks, Steve... but I want to point out that this is not a matter of something being just my belief or opinion.
Lindsey talked to Creem magazine months before he left the band. It was then, prior to him quitting, that he mentioned Stevie's 'Buckingham Nicks II' proposal (for the record, LB never said anything in that interview about Stevie or himself "quitting").
During the interview he still wasn't even sure if they'd tour or not, though he admitted that the rest of the band was certainly eyeing a long road trek and that if it came down to "playing ball" and "finishing out what need to be done for this album," he said he'd "do whatever needs to be done."

If that doesn't put a timestamp on the 'Buckingham Nicks II' conversation, I don't know what will.

[wondergirl9847]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v159/Texaswonder/deadhorse.gif

[Johnny Stew]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v159/Texaswonder/deadhorse.gifYou could get a LOT of use out of that emoticon around here! :laugh:

[SteveMacD]

Isn't ANY discussion about a band that's been around for 38 years akin to beating a dead horse???

[wondergirl9847]

Just thought it was a great place to use that particular icon. I've been wanting to use it. :D

[gldstwmn]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v159/Texaswonder/deadhorse.gif

Haha. :thumbsup:

[Mad4stevie]

Obviously the fight was more than Lindsey quitting Fleetwood Mac. It was about the definate ending of the relationship between Stevie and Lindsey. It was the end of nearly twenty crazy years of making music together. And, it was the definate end of their relationship. Sure, they both said it was over, but they WERE still single, and there was that ounce of hope that they COULD still get back together. This incident shattered any hope of getting back together. The McVies had the advantage of the divorce. It was in writing that their marriage was over, there was a definate date as to when it was over, and they were able to move on with their lives, while still being friendly with each other.

I think Stevie thought that LB leaving the band was the "ultimate abandonment". Up until then, even though they weren't together in a relationship sense, they still had the music to bond them together (The Chain). After her rehab, she probably was looking at the band and Tango as a fresh start and had built up all kinds of expectations in her mind. His leaving so abruptly right before the tour crushed all those expectations for Stevie. And that is why I think it pushed her over the edge.

It does remind me of Fall From Grace and Joan of Arc:

"Well, I came all the way here
Just to watch you walk out that door".

"Gone like the wind
Like the stars in the dust
Well, her little toy soldier
Is covered with rust and
Your beautiful eyes, woah, well, they look sad to me now
And I don't even know why you left me
She saw it all, it was a tiresome ending
He stormed out, hearing the door slamming
Behind him
Ooh, she didn't even know why he left her"

[wondergirl9847]

"Gone like the wind
Like the stars in the dust
Well, her little toy soldier
Is covered with rust and
Your beautiful eyes, woah, well, they look sad to me now
And I don't even know why you left me
She saw it all, it was a tiresome ending
He stormed out, hearing the door slamming
Behind him
Ooh, she didn't even know why he left her"

That sounds like her account of the Joe Walsh thing. I don't really know jack about Stevie and her stories about her men, but I remember she said he slammed the door or something.

[Johnny Stew]

"Joan Of Arc" was written and recorded before Lindsey left Fleetwood Mac.

[sodascouts]

That sounds like her account of the Joe Walsh thing. I don't really know jack about Stevie and her stories about her men, but I remember she said he slammed the door or something.

I thought he was sitting around with his friends, she wanted to leave, and she told him, "If I walk out that door without you it's over." He replied, "Once you walk out that door, you cease to exist."

I'm betting she was the one that slammed the door that time, lol.

[GardenStateGirlie]

Their voices were raised and they were clearly angry with each other. But if to say they were not arguing with each other in that clip then okay. :xoxo:

I wouldn't really catagorize that as a "big fight." I don't think it was life-altering and even though you can only hear their voices at a certain point, I don't think he threw her up against anything and started screaming at her :shrug: I was responding to your comment that the last "angry" incident wasn't in 1987. I think it was. That to me was not a fight -- it was an argument that stemmed from two very pigheaded people being -- well, pigheaded. I think he pressed her buttons to get a certain reaction out of her and it worked. That's never going to change. But no, I wouldn't really call that an "angry" incident. I think Kelly was more or less implying where he physically came at her -- 87 is the last documented encounter of its kind.

[henryscutter]

"Then it got physical. Lindsey grabbed Stevie and slapped her and bent her backwards over the hood of his car. Was he going to hit her again? He'd done it before. Suddenly Dennis Dunstan and Stevie's Manager Tony Dimitriades pulled Lindsey off her and told him that was enough. Lindsey then came back into the house, very distraught. He shouted "Get that woman out of my life-that schizophrenic bitch!"

"So the way I read it is that they were wondering if Lindsey was going to slap her a second time. I didn't get that Mick was saying that there was a history of abuse. I also noticed that the managers DID get involved, which disputes an earlier post. Incidentally, did you notice that Stevie's then manager is Lindsey's current manager? Hmmmm."

Well, I think it is pretty obvious he was talking about a previous occassion because it does'nt make sense the other way. Why use " He'd done it before" to describe the previous sentence. That would be redundant. :shrug: Anyways they are both different people now and as long as they are never a couple again everything will be fine :lol:

[lagringader&r]

Isn't ANY discussion about a band that's been around for 38 years akin to beating a dead horse???

Thank you! Because to most of you, I guess it is old news. To some of us, it's brand new. And, most of the topics on the Ledge are about things that happened in the past.

As for the last incident being in 87, well there's still the weird story about the girlfriend that's not allowed to talk. I also live in Los Angeles and even though I'm not a rockstar, I think that smacks of something wrong. Sorry, but what is it she's not supposed to talk about?

I also think Stevie pushed his buttons, so I'm not totally excusing the part she played in it. But as someone pointed out, she's 5'1, she's tiny. I think her yelling at him is one thing, but it's radically different than being slapped and thrown over the hood of a car while it took two guys to pull him off of her. I don't see how anyone can equate the two. Also, thanks to someone for saying this was interesting. I think so, too. Before this thread, I didn't know Stevie had called Lindsey to talk about doing another Buckingham Nicks. It seems she did it before the big fight, so if Lindsey had any interest in working with her, he had the opportunity and took a pass on it. I think he was ready to walk out and away from the whole thing. From Mick's description in his book, it does sound like Lindsey abused her in the past. I agree that it wouldn't make sense to say "he'd done it before" about the previous sentence. I'm not so much about Stevie vs. Lindsey in this because it seems that he was the one that went too far. Someone else posted that he "beat the shit out of" his other girlfriend. So, it wasn't just Stevie.

I'm guessing from someone else's post that seems to ignore any question I ask of her, there have been fights about this on the Ledge in the past? I just have one question: Why? Is it your fight?

[SteveMacD]

Well, I think it is pretty obvious he was talking about a previous occassion because it does'nt make sense the other way.
It makes perfect sense. If he WERE talking about a previous incident, why wouldn't he have talked about said incident earlier in the book? He was saying that Lindsey slapped her once, but would he slap her twice?
Why use " He'd done it before" to describe the previous sentence.
Dramatic effect. It was a book, after all! Hell, Mick refers to himself as a "drama queen." Again, I think people are reading WAY TOO MUCH into that single paragraph.
That would be redundant.
Fleetwood Mac redundant? NOOOO. Have you seen the track listing on "Live In Boston" CD? It's almost the same set as "The Dance," save for a few songs.

[strandinthewind]

. . . As for the last incident being in 87, well there's still the weird story about the girlfriend that's not allowed to talk. I also live in Los Angeles and even though I'm not a rockstar, I think that smacks of something wrong. Sorry, but what is it she's not supposed to talk about? . . . .

That very well could be and there certainly have been lots of rumors along with some outright testimony and other documentation.

In general though, many famous people do these contracts just so no one can sell any story - true or false - to a tabloid, write a tell all book, etc. I mean a crafty writer can take a seemingly innocent situation and make it taudry - like she spanked her kid becomes she beat the hell out of that poor sick and frightened child :cool:

[SteveMacD]

Sorry, but what is it she's not supposed to talk about?
She probably sued Lindsey and they settled out of court, with the stipulation that she couldn't talk about whatever it was. Anyway, I'm not so sure I'd be that quick to believe her. I'm sure she was pissed at "Caroline," and Mick's book gave her ammunition to go after him, because if he slapped Stevie Nicks, imagine what he did to her. Color me skeptical.
But as someone pointed out, she's 5'1, she's tiny.
Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned, or so they say. I think it's safe to say that most in the band were in bad places in their lives, and the band was all some of them had. So, they were already an emotional lot. What a shock that the two primadonnas were the two who exploded.
I'm guessing from someone else's post that seems to ignore any question I ask of her, there have been fights about this on the Ledge in the past? I just have one question: Why? Is it your fight?
The Stevie fans think Lindsey's a jerk. Lindsey fans think Stevie was the one who started it, and that Mick is an a-hole for publishing the story, for which Stevie apologized. So there are a lot of factions pitted against each other.

Me, I'm a bit more neutral, and I try to deduct what really happened by statements made by those who were there. I doubt that Lindsey actually slapped Stevie. Stevie said a lot about the incident, and has painted it as VERY ugly, but she's never said that Lindsey slapped her. I think it was dark and emotions were running high throughout the band. Mick was still doing coke at the time and was upset about Lindsey quitting HIS band. So who knows what Mick actually saw and how that was filtered through his own emtions and biases? All I DO know is that it was a violent incident, but not necessarily physically, and Lindsey is not totally to blame. Mick has painted it as violent, John has painted it as violent, and Stevie has painted it as violent. All Lindsey has denied is that he slapped Stevie. So, I think it's clear that it wasn't pretty and that I'm sure both could have gotten arrested on verbal assault.

[henryscutter]

It makes perfect sense. If he WERE talking about a previous incident, why wouldn't he have talked about said incident earlier in the book? He was saying that Lindsey slapped her once, but would he slap her twice?[QUOTE=SteveMacD]

Ok, He asked the question "Would he hit her again?" ( To me he is asking "is this a one time lapse in judjement or not") and then answers it with "it is something he has done before." So that is why I see it as talking about a previous occurence.
He said he only put down the Tango incident in detail because he wanted to make it clear that Lindsey left the band and was not fired. Going into too much detail about the Lindsey/Stevie relationship was probably one of the things she "jokingly" said she would sue him over :laugh:

[QUOTE]Fleetwood Mac redundant? NOOOO. Have you seen the track listing on "Live In Boston" CD? It's almost the same set as "The Dance," save for a few songs.
Ya, youre right about that :distress:

[AliP]

Someone else posted that he "beat the shit out of" his other girlfriend. So, it wasn't just Stevie.




umm, yeah. The person who said that is is mistaken. I'm assuming that the information came from when Carol Ann was on Geraldo.

To make a long story short, Carol Ann never said he "beat the the shit" out of her. What she said was, that one day they were driving home from a concert or something and he suddenly stopped the car and starting choking her saying "you're all the same." He then stopped and acted like nothing had happened. Then a few months later he choked her again, out of the blue saying the same thing. That was her account. Never any "beating the shit" out of her.

I'm not condoning his behavior but "beating the shit" out of someone and "choking" someone are two different acts. Let's get our stories straight.

[AliP]

Mick thanked him by not only trying to force him into a tour he said from the beginning he didn't want to do,

The true facts are that Mick and Chris knew from the beginning of the album that Lindsey wasn't going on the tour.


Here you go again!! I know you're not a big fan of the quotes, but you are always pulling these miraculous statements out of nowhere and then justifying them by saying that you "heard" this stuff and somehow we are supposed to believe this is any more reliable than using quotes??? Sorry, but at least the quotes present hard evidence, not just hearsay and things collected in the minds of fans over the years. So since you said that you like to judge Stevie or Lindsey by "their own" quotes, how about this quote from Lindsey. I don't see anything in there about him saying he "did not want to go on tour." In fact what I read, from Lindsey, is that he would be willing to go on tour if it came down to that.


Fleetwood Mac: Off the Record - 1987
(about touring for Tango) As far as the touring goes, I mean we joke about it alot, as far as barracading the doors. I mean, if it really gets down to the point where it really looks like the thing we should do and if its going to be a disapointment to a lot of people, I would certainly be willing to go out and do that."

Yeah, they probably had more than a sneaking suspicion that he didn't want to tour, but he still agreed to tour and then pulled out at the last minute. That was a rotten thing to do. They had every reason to be mad. He should have just bucked up and went on tour and then quit afterwards, no strings attached. And yakity yak and blabity blah. Now, I'm beating the dead horse. :wavey:

[ontheEdgeof17]

Yeah, they probably had more than a sneaking suspicion that he didn't want to tour, but he still agreed to tour and then pulled out at the last minute. That was a rotten thing to do. They had every reason to be mad. He should have just bucked up and went on tour and then quit afterwards, no strings attached. And yakity yak and blabity blah. Now, I'm beating the dead horse. :wavey:


I wonder if they had started some type of Tour Rehearsal by then? Oh....to have those bootlegs in my hands...

[SteveMacD]

I wonder if they had started some type of Tour Rehearsal by then? Oh....to have those bootlegs in my hands...
I doubt they did. It was still in the planning stages. The one quote I distinctly remember after Lindsey quit is that if Lindsey had stayed, Billy Burnette was still going to be asked to play with the band on tour, as Lindsey was wanting another guitarist, and everybody was comfortable around Billy.

[David]

I doubt that Lindsey actually slapped Stevie.I think he may have fisted her. And then impaled her on a stick ... like that kewpie doll on the cover of "Rock a Little." :shocked:

[xxxmx]

I think he may have fisted her. And then impaled her on a stick ... like that kewpie doll on the cover of "Rock a Little." :shocked:
you so funny :laugh:

[SteveMacD]

I think he may have fisted her. And then impaled her on a stick ... like that kewpie doll on the cover of "Rock a Little." :shocked:
And this thread...http://www.addis-welt.de/smilie/smilie/wc/unsortiert091.gif

[David]

And this thread...http://www.addis-welt.de/smilie/smilie/wc/unsortiert091.gif
Heh .. I know! I just can't take any more of this Fleetwood mac shit seriously.

[SteveMacD]

Heh .. I know! I just can't take any more of this Fleetwood mac shit seriously.
Especially after the recent revelation that Stevie and Christine were in a love triangle with Ed The Sock.

[darklinensuit]

Especially after the recent revelation that Stevie and Christine were in a love triangle with Ed The Sock.

I thought it was Harold the dildo. :angel:

- Jake

[SteveMacD]

I thought it was Harold the dildo. :angel:

Well, that's not a new revelation. That one has been around since about "Mirage," after they all had some time apart and could laugh about it. No, the Ed The Sock thing happened in 1999, and is partially why Christine "retired" from Fleetwood Mac.

http://www.chartattack.com/pics/2002/08/30-edthesock.jpg

[Janet]

That sounds like her account of the Joe Walsh thing. I don't really know jack about Stevie and her stories about her men, but I remember she said he slammed the door or something.
I thought this was about Jimmy leaving because he wouldn't even do her RAL album and that killed her I am sure. I thought it was about that ending.

[Kelly]

umm, yeah. The person who said that is is mistaken. I'm assuming that the information came from when Carol Ann was on Geraldo.

To make a long story short, Carol Ann never said he "beat the the shit" out of her. What she said was, that one day they were driving home from a concert or something and he suddenly stopped the car and starting choking her saying "you're all the same." He then stopped and acted like nothing had happened. Then a few months later he choked her again, out of the blue saying the same thing. That was her account. Never any "beating the shit" out of her.

I'm not condoning his behavior but "beating the shit" out of someone and "choking" someone are two different acts. Let's get our stories straight.

Thank you Ali. Unfortunately, she has already decided that Lindsey is a violent, horrid man who kicks the shit out of his women.
To add to the Geraldo story, Carol Ann said he was drunk and they were fighting on the way home from a party. It happened according to her, twice, in eight years, both times they were high. She went on and on during her Geraldo appearance talking about how she STILL loved Lindsey, she barely focused on the alleged "incident".
Stevie loves and trusts Lindsey...her Dad love and trusts Lindsey, Mick now loves and trusts Lindsey...these are people who know the man well....uh, perhaps they know something we don't about his character?

[David]

To add to the Geraldo story, Carol Ann said he was drunk and they were fighting on the way home from a party. It happened according to her, twice, in eight years, both times they were high. She went on and on during her Geraldo appearance talking about how she STILL loved Lindsey, she barely focused on the alleged "incident".Carol may be a mixed-up person with serious drug-addict issues. Her story may require some corroboration before the world just swallows it whole.

What we need is a new feature on the Nicks Fix called ASK KRISTEN!!

[tynan88]

^

ITA! I also think an Ask Kared feature would be nice too.

[darklinensuit]

Carol may be a mixed-up person with serious drug-addict issues. Her story may require some corroboration before the world just swallows it whole.

What we need is a new feature on the Nicks Fix called ASK KRISTEN!!

Soooo not gonna happen. :lol: :lol: :lol:

- Jake

[GardenStateGirlie]

Soooo not gonna happen. :lol: :lol: :lol:

- Jake

Why not? I'm sure she listened to Fleetwood Mac all the time when she was a baby. She's probably a HUUUUGE fan ;)

[darklinensuit]

Why not? I'm sure she listened to Fleetwood Mac all the time when she was a baby. She's probably a HUUUUGE fan ;)

You're right, I jumped the gun. I hear she's in line for Sharon's job. :lol:

- Jake

[GardenStateGirlie]

You're right, I jumped the gun. I hear she's in line for Sharon's job. :lol:

- Jake

Sharon's or Jana's? :shocked: I'm sure she's also the next in line to receive a moon necklace as well :lol:

[tynan88]

Sharon's or Jana's? :shocked: I'm sure she's also the next in line to receive a moon necklace as well :lol:

She can have Lindsey's one from the divorce settlement :lol:

I am sure that the Lindsey would get the impression the two got along well...because the one thing in common is that they don't want to hurt Lindsey....Steve; because she loves him, and Kristen; she needs him for money. :laugh:

[darklinensuit]

Steve; because she loves him,

Was there some operation? :shocked: ;)

- Jake

[tynan88]

I'm sure there a Transvestite Steve out there that loves Lindsey! :lol:

[darklinensuit]

I'm sure there a Transvestite Steve out there that loves Lindsey! :lol:

Dancing somewhere to the Out Of The Girdle album, no doubt. :nod:

- Jake

[tynan88]

Dancing somewhere to the Out Of The Girdle album, no doubt. :nod:

- Jake

Then there's the transvestite Stevie fan listening to C-ck A Little :sorry:

[darklinensuit]

Then there's the transvestite Stevie fan listening to C-ck A Little :sorry:

I'd like to not buy a vowel, please. :eek:

- Jake

[Johnny Stew]

I'm sure (Kristen) listened to Fleetwood Mac all the time when she was a baby.I don't know why, but that gave me a huge laugh! :o
Thanks!

[glitter_fades]

Here you go again!! I know you're not a big fan of the quotes, but you are always pulling these miraculous statements out of nowhere and then justifying them by saying that you "heard" this stuff and somehow we are supposed to believe this is any more reliable than using quotes??? Sorry, but at least the quotes present hard evidence, not just hearsay and things collected in the minds of fans over the years. So since you said that you like to judge Stevie or Lindsey by "their own" quotes, how about this quote from Lindsey. I don't see anything in there about him saying he "did not want to go on tour." In fact what I read, from Lindsey, is that he would be willing to go on tour if it came down to that.


Fleetwood Mac: Off the Record - 1987
(about touring for Tango) As far as the touring goes, I mean we joke about it alot, as far as barracading the doors. I mean, if it really gets down to the point where it really looks like the thing we should do and if its going to be a disapointment to a lot of people, I would certainly be willing to go out and do that."

Yeah, they probably had more than a sneaking suspicion that he didn't want to tour, but he still agreed to tour and then pulled out at the last minute. That was a rotten thing to do. They had every reason to be mad. He should have just bucked up and went on tour and then quit afterwards, no strings attached. And yakity yak and blabity blah. Now, I'm beating the dead horse. :wavey:

Nothing personal, but this is getting kind of tiresome. If fans don't care what other fan's impressions are, I wonder why we bother to participate in message boards? It seems everyone just wants to argue about bits of disjointed history pieced together from online quotes to support their own preconceived ideas on these board topics. What's the point of that? The available online information is totally incomplete. It's without context and the perspective of hearing things said at the time and place it happened. Piecing bits of information in the correct sequence is also impossible to do after the fact. So much is missing from the record. You don't have to take my word on anything. I don't notice many others taking issue with David's view even though it's very similar to mine about Lindsey saying early in the Tango process he wasn't touring. Did he quote all these sources you want me to cite? Just to be clear on another issue, I never said Lindsey said Stevie called him about redoing BN. Somebody else said that and they used the Cream article as a source. I said Stevie called him after he left and asked if he wanted her to quit too. She also asked about doing BN again. I didn't attribute that info as coming from Lindsey. Stevie is the one I heard say it. Was it on TV? Was it in the newspaper? Hell if I remember but I remember she said it and you don't have to believe me. You don't have to believe Stevie once said she wasn't at her own wedding to Kim Anderson either. She told a local reporter here that she got married by proxy. Just because it's not in some online archives doesn't mean the information is invalid. By the same token, just because you can pull up a quote doesn't mean the information is correct or gives a true picture of an issue or incident. Did Stevie just say on the radio yesterday that BATB was her set closer before she wrote HAEWEFY? Did she also say BATB was written in 1984? If you dig out her quote from the transcript and post it here, does that mean her information is correct?

Years from now if a transcripts isn't around and nobody has it recorded (like that could ever happen today. :laugh: ) people won't believe Stevie said she closed her shows with BATB before she wrote HAEWAFY, that BATB was written in 1984, or that months ago on Jim Ladd she said she'd be touring through the end of the year. Yesterday, months later, she said it's over on Aug 6 in Vegas. She also said something yesterday that gave me the impression she never planned to do this Gold Dust tour on her own. I noticed that as quite odd compared to what she said on Ladd in April. I won't give an exact quote from yesterday. I don't feel it's necessary. You can go get quotes if you like. I don't need them. I'm giving you my impression of what she said. You can take it or leave it. Stevie said something about Don touring 10 days but going out herself afterwards wasn't what she planned on. What about the hype back in April? Am I the only one who caught this little twist? It may be meaningless but I found it interesting. People reading years from now could get two different views of her committment to this solo tour. My impression is she never wanted to do it and I felt that was true even before I heard what she said yesterday. Others can strongly disagree becasue her performances seem so amazing. How could she not want to be doing this tour? Well, it's just my impression she didn't really want to, but I didn't make it up from thin air. I did hear her say something significant yesterday. I also heard things before the tour that formed my belief. If I can't show you a quote then my impressions are not valid? Oh well. :shrug:

ON EDIT: This new thread was posted after I wrote my post above. Seems my impression of Stevie's solo tour was valid and she's already rewriting history. Don asked her to tour? That's not what I heard but who cares? Stevie says it now so it's an undisputed fact! Glad that's been cleared up. :D http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showthread.php?t=21101

:angel:

[lagringader&r]

Nothing personal, but this is getting kind of tiresome. If fans don't care what other fan's impressions are, I wonder why we bother to participate in message boards? It seems everyone just wants to argue about bits of disjointed history pieced together from online quotes to support their own preconceived ideas on these board topics. What's the point of that? The available online information is totally incomplete. It's without context and the perspective of hearing things said at the time and place it happened. Piecing bits of information in the correct sequence is also impossible to do after the fact. So much is missing from the record. You don't have to take my word on anything. I don't notice many others taking issue with David's view even though it's very similar to mine about Lindsey saying early in the Tango process he wasn't touring. Did he quote all these sources you want me to cite? Just to be clear on another issue, I never said Lindsey said Stevie called him about redoing BN. Somebody else said that and they used the Cream article as a source. I said Stevie called him after he left and asked if he wanted her to quit too. She also asked about doing BN again. I didn't attribute that info as coming from Lindsey. Stevie is the one I heard say it. Was it on TV? Was it in the newspaper? Hell if I remember but I remember she said it and you don't have to believe me. You don't have to believe Stevie once said she wasn't at her own wedding to Kim Anderson either. She told a local reporter here that she got married by proxy. Just because it's not in some online archives doesn't mean the information is invalid. By the same token, just because you can pull up a quote doesn't mean the information is correct or gives a true picture of an issue or incident. Did Stevie just say on the radio yesterday that BATB was her set closer before she wrote HAEWEFY? Did she also say BATB was written in 1984? If you dig out her quote from the transcript and post it here, does that mean her information is correct?

Years from now if a transcripts isn't around and nobody has it recorded (like that could ever happen today. :laugh: ) people won't believe Stevie said she closed her shows with BATB before she wrote HAEWAFY, that BATB was written in 1984, or that months ago on Jim Ladd she said she'd be touring through the end of the year. Yesterday, months later, she said it's over on Aug 6 in Vegas. She also said something yesterday that gave me the impression she never planned to do this Gold Dust tour on her own. I noticed that as quite odd compared to what she said on Ladd in April. I won't give an exact quote from yesterday. I don't feel it's necessary. You can go get quotes if you like. I don't need them. I'm giving you my impression of what she said. You can take it or leave it. Stevie said something about Don touring 10 days but going out herself afterwards wasn't what she planned on. What about the hype back in April? Am I the only one who caught this little twist? It may be meaningless but I found it interesting. People reading years from now could get two different views of her committment to this solo tour. My impression is she never wanted to do it and I felt that was true even before I heard what she said yesterday. Others can strongly disagree becasue her performances seem so amazing. How could she not want to be doing this tour? Well, it's just my impression she didn't really want to, but I didn't make it up from thin air. I did hear her say something significant yesterday. I also heard things before the tour that formed my belief. If I can't show you a quote then my impressions are not valid? Oh well. :shrug:

ON EDIT: This new thread was posted after I wrote my post above. Seems my impression of Stevie's solo tour was valid and she's already rewriting history. Don asked her to tour? That's not what I heard but who cares? Stevie says it now so it's an undisputed fact! Glad that's been cleared up. :D http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showthread.php?t=21101

:angel:

I believe you. (And I'm not just saying that coz you're a really nice person :laugh:) I also think it's cool that you were around back then to read newspaper articles while it was actually happening. You're right that things probably get misconstrued on the internet.

Speaking of misconstrued, for the record..I did NOT say Lindsey beat the shit out of his girlfriend. Someone else did and I said something about it in my post. I would appreciate if someone is going to talk about me as if I'm not here, that you don't tell me what I've made up my mind about. You don't know me, my mind or what I've decided. I'll post those things on my own. Thanks. I'm just going to say that I don't know what's true and I'm only going on Mick's book, what John said about it getting violent, Stevie's audio, Lindsey not denying much except the slapping, Lindsey's girlfriend saying what she did and the other girlfriend not being allowed to talk. But who knows. Maybe they're all lying or their memories are bad. I really don't know.

[ELIUD]

(about Lindsey chasing Stevie through Chris's "maze-like" house and out the door) That's awesome! If the Fleetwood Mac story were a movie like Gone With the Wind, this would be akin to scenes like Scarlett falling down the stairs, or getting attacked at the shantytown. I love it.

'Gone with the Wind'? It reminds me more of Jack Nicholson chasing that kid around with an axe in 'The Shining'.

[realcowgirl]

Thanks for posting the links to those. I wonder what her being on Klonopin at the time had anything to do with the fight or what she said, though. I don't think Stevie was so out of it that she made any of it up or embellished or whatever. jbrownsjr said there were alleged concerns about Lindsey respecting women and I'm really curious to know what those are, other than what I've already heard about the Tusk kick? No disrespect meant, but for those that think Stevie should be with Lindsey, ugh. I don't think so.

I just came across this thread, and my curiosity is getting the better of me, but the links have expired. Can anyone repost them, please?

[BlackWidow]

I found some quotes from Stevie about a fight between her and Lindsey. I think this was 87. If anyone has the audio to this, can you link it or post it because I can't seem to? This is pretty scary. Woah. I think if anyone thought she never regretted smiling at him..well. I know he kicked her on stage during one of the Tusk shows but is he a violent person? Is she? This blew me away. (Oh and if he had killed her, her family and the band would have to get in line behind me!)

Because of that guilt I have always had about not leaving Fleetwood Mac, flew off of the couch and across the room to seriously attack him. And I did. I mean, and I’m not real scary but I can be fairly ferocious. And I grabbed him, you know, which almost got me killed.

He ended up chasing me all the way out of Christine’s maze like house and down the street and then back up the street and then he threw me against the car and I screamed horrible obscenities at him and uh I thought he was going to kill me and I think he probably thought he was going to kill me, too. And um, I said to him “you know if the rest of the..if the rest of the people in the band don’t get you, my family will. My dad and my brother will kill you.”

I LOVE IT!!!:lol:

[crtrofthenight]

First off, he ought to be ashamed of himself for hitting Carol anne Harris and attacking Stevie. It would serve him right if everyone boycotted his shows/albums or went to the show and chanted "girl beater". What a wimp.

[danax6]

First off, he ought to be ashamed of himself for hitting Carol anne Harris and attacking Stevie. It would serve him right if everyone boycotted his shows/albums or went to the show and chanted "girl beater". What a wimp.Yeah, great idea.

[Rapunzel]

LMAO! You wouldn't survive for long at that show!:D

First off, he ought to be ashamed of himself for hitting Carol anne Harris and attacking Stevie. It would serve him right if everyone boycotted his shows/albums or went to the show and chanted "girl beater". What a wimp.