Sara demo

[SeattleMark]

Is anyone else a bit suspicious of the Sara "cleaning lady" demo? By the time she wrote Sara she was already a star, right? Probably 77 or 78? I think that demo was purposely recorded because of the Sara lawsuit. I do believe that she wrote it, but including "I don't want to be a cleaning lady, I want to be a star" just doesn't seem like something she would say before taping a demo. I don't know . . . am I being strange?

[paleshadow]

Is anyone else a bit suspicious of the Sara "cleaning lady" demo? By the time she wrote Sara she was already a star, right? Probably 77 or 78? I think that demo was purposely recorded because of the Sara lawsuit. I do believe that she wrote it, but including "I don't want to be a cleaning lady, I want to be a star" just doesn't seem like something she would say before taping a demo. I don't know . . . am I being strange?

I don't think it was ever suggested that the demo pre dated Fleetwood Mac. I think the comment at the beginning of the song is just Stevie being playful.

[gldstwmn]

Love your avatar.

[HejiraNYC]

Okay... this is slightly off-topic, but I just thought of something I have always wondered about. Back when the "Wild Heart" came out I was the 13-year-old dork who read every single liner note for every single album I bought. And I recall the WH liner notes, under "Special Thanks," included something to the effect of:

"Ahmet Ertegun (for the spaces in Sara)"

WTF?? Has this been explained somewhere?

[krrrby]

Okay... this is slightly off-topic, but I just thought of something I have always wondered about. Back when the "Wild Heart" came out I was the 13-year-old dork who read every single liner note for every single album I bought. And I recall the WH liner notes, under "Special Thanks," included something to the effect of:

"Ahmet Ertegun (for the spaces in Sara)"

WTF?? Has this been explained somewhere?

-pulls out wild heart cd and looks- :nod:
You are correct...and that is weird

Wonder if google will have anything for us?

[David]

I do believe that she wrote it, but including "I don't want to be a cleaning lady, I want to be a star" just doesn't seem like something she would say before taping a demo.If I were standing at a mic, waiting patiently for the engineers to cue the tape & count me in, I'd probably recite the 2nd paragraph of "Bleak House," since I know it by heart.

[krrrby]

http://www.history-of-rock.com/atlantic_records.htm

Ahmet Ertegun

If you feel like reading the whole thing :lol:

[desertangel]

Okay... this is slightly off-topic, but I just thought of something I have always wondered about. Back when the "Wild Heart" came out I was the 13-year-old dork who read every single liner note for every single album I bought. And I recall the WH liner notes, under "Special Thanks," included something to the effect of:

"Ahmet Ertegun (for the spaces in Sara)"

WTF?? Has this been explained somewhere?


Well... then... my BRILLIANT guess is he had something to do with the vocal and/or musical arrangement and/or production of the and/or song. heh :p

Laura

[desertangel]

Ahmet Ertegun sounds like an anagram.

Yes but it rolls off the mouth and tongue very nicely. In fact, I'll be you can even say it fast five times without messing up! (slow night... ain't it?) :woohoo:

Laura

[Kelly]

First to stay on topic, no I do not think she orchestrated the cleaning lady demo to prove her case..they had master reels and her band to back her up.

Bringing up Ahmet...made me curious about Sara. How much did she work on the song during her early Belladonna sessions? At all? Was Tusk before they started? I am curious if she considered Sara for her solo album at all and went as far as actually working on the song. I remember something about SotM? and I have no idea where I read it but it was something about how LB really wanted to work that song and he actually said something to TP about it..sort of asked him not to help her with it? I know that sounds crazy but I honestly remember that from somewhere. I am not sure Sisters is the right song but it was a song from Tusk I am pretty sure. Crap, or was it Gypsy? I need some Ginko.
Anyone know how much, if any, her solo people worked with her on Sara? What the hell are the "spaces in Sara?"

[strandinthewind]

Well, for what it is worth, that lady on Nancy's board claimed to be the back up singer on that and it was recorded sans FM. But, I do think La Nicks expected FM to do it, but they/LB could have initially balked at it and she thought it could be on BD, which though in its initial stages, seemingly hade a bunch of songs in the queue. Also, there are any demos of that song including a piano demo with just La Nicks.

[joe]

Well, for what it is worth, that lady on Nancy's board claimed to be the back up singer on that and it was recorded sans FM. But, I do think La Nicks expected FM to do it, but they/LB could have initially balked at it and she thought it could be on BD, which though in its initial stages, seemingly hade a bunch of songs in the queue. Also, there are any demos of that song including a piano demo with just La Nicks.

yes....there's a version with just stevie at the piano. and i'm pretty sure it's her playing too. at the end, she's talking to someone and says something like, "real sort of like 'be my baby'" or something to that effect.

[GateandGarden]

Didn't certain people go without credit for Sara?What are you doing on this repulsive board, anyway? :laugh:

[David]

Bringing up Ahmet...made me curious about Sara. How much did she work on the song during her early Belladonna sessions? At all? Was Tusk before they started? I am curious if she considered Sara for her solo album at all and went as far as actually working on the song.I don't think so. "Sara" was written & demoed in 1978, all sources say, before she had started any work on a solo album. In all the reels, there's no solo album tracking that predates the middle of the Tusk tour, & most of the sessions were in 1980 & '81.
I remember something about SotM? and I have no idea where I read it but it was something about how LB really wanted to work that song and he actually said something to TP about it..sort of asked him not to help her with it?You may be thinking of "Gypsy," which Stevie had started tracking with the Heartbreakers during the Tusk tour (like April 1980).

[dissention]

Well, for what it is worth, that lady on Nancy's board claimed to be the back up singer on that and it was recorded sans FM. But, I do think La Nicks expected FM to do it, but they/LB could have initially balked at it and she thought it could be on BD, which though in its initial stages, seemingly hade a bunch of songs in the queue. Also, there are any demos of that song including a piano demo with just La Nicks.

I thought that she didn't even entertain the thought of going solo until after Tusk was said and done?

[Kelly]

Thank you so much David. That really helped alot to confirm the timelines for the BD sessions to when Sara was written.
Yes, the song was Gypsy I was thinking about that Lindsey really wanted to get his hands on. Interesting how to this very day he claims it is their greatest collaboration. He always seems particularly proud of that song and it is not hard to understand why. That song is a masterpiece~~ A MASTERPIECE! I love, love, love the accoustic version!

[joe]

Thank you so much David. That really helped alot to confirm the timelines for the BD sessions to when Sara was written.
Yes, the song was Gypsy I was thinking about that Lindsey really wanted to get his hands on. Interesting how to this very day he claims it is their greatest collaboration. He always seems particularly proud of that song and it is not hard to understand why. That song is a masterpiece~~ A MASTERPIECE! I love, love, love the accoustic version!

not to argue, but imo i never understood why he thinks that. I personally think "sara" is a far greater accomplishment than "gypsy" hands down. there's so much going on in that song. i swear 25 years later i can still hear something new in that song when i listen to it. it's a saga. and the whole thing is just completely ethereal and psychedelic. to this day, i'm really surprised that it ever got chosen as a single - and ended up hitting the top ten! "gypsy" is much less mysterious and more radio friendly. "gypsy" is a great song (great video too) but it just has less mystery to me than "sara."

[David]

Interesting how to this very day he claims it is their greatest collaboration. He always seems particularly proud of that song and it is not hard to understand why. That song is a masterpiece~~ A MASTERPIECE!If they teach engineering & arrangement in college, they could use "Gypsy" from Mirage as the textbook -- they literally could. You could spend a whole semester analyzing the achievements of that track.

[SeattleMark]

Gypsy is more "playful" and Sara is much darker. Listening to Sara with headphones makes me high.

not to argue, but imo i never understood why he thinks that. I personally think "sara" is a far greater accomplishment than "gypsy" hands down. there's so much going on in that song. i swear 25 years later i can still hear something new in that song when i listen to it. it's a saga. and the whole thing is just completely ethereal and psychedelic. to this day, i'm really surprised that it ever got chosen as a single - and ended up hitting the top ten! "gypsy" is much less mysterious and more radio friendly. "gypsy" is a great song (great video too) but it just has less mystery to me than "sara."

[strandinthewind]

I thought that she didn't even entertain the thought of going solo until after Tusk was said and done?


She did Whenever I Call You Friend in 1978 and before then and she and LB worked on other non FM projects together a la John Stewart (1979) and Walter Egan (1977 and 1978) and a few others. So, while BD may have not been a formal thing, I think she was tossing the idea about in her head. I also think the Tusk tour and the fighting pushed her over the ledge she wanted to jump over anyway. I mean who could blame her. If you watch the outtakes from the Tusk doc., the rest of FM treated her poorly and in many ways looked at her presence as a nusance. Who would not go running to people who liked you :shrug:

[trackaghost]

We had a discussion before about the Sara demo and Lindsey not being involved.

If anyone is interested they can have a read here:

http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showthread.php?t=15178

[lagringader&r]

She did Whenever I Call You Friend in 1978 and before then and she and LB worked on other non FM projects together a la John Stewart (1979) and Walter Egan (1977 and 1978) and a few others. So, while BD may have not been a formal thing, I think she was tossing the idea about in her head. I also think the Tusk tour and the fighting pushed her over the ledge she wanted to jump over anyway. I mean who could blame her. If you watch the outtakes from the Tusk doc., the rest of FM treated her poorly and in many ways looked at her presence as a nusance. Who would not go running to people who liked you :shrug:

I agree. I'll bet she started playing around with the idea of going solo after the Rumours mess. Then, Tusk came along and I think that did push her over the ledge. She already had a few successful collaborations, as you mentioned, so why not just see they would take her in the future?

[UndoingTheLaces]

Changing the tone just a little here, what is your favorite live version of Sara? I have to say Melborne 1980 is mine. When she sings "Sara" after "All I ever wanted..." it always makes me teary eyed. It's so passionate. I also have a great version from Cleveland that year that is kind of strange and wonderful at the same time. Stevie sounds really out of it, misses her cue, gets lost in a word and forgets the rest of a line, and there are a few bum notes here and there, but at the end, during the vocal ad lib, she sounds so passionate. And when she sings "such a heatbeat" it just breaks your heart. She doesn't do "all I ever wanted..." but she does sing, "listen to that crazy wind because it would make you smile", which I dont' think I've ever heard her sing in any other live version.

[UndoingTheLaces]

If you watch the outtakes from the Tusk doc., the rest of FM treated her poorly and in many ways looked at her presence as a nusance. Who would not go running to people who liked you :shrug:

Does anyone know where I could get a decent copy of the Tusk doc and the outtakes?

I taught myself to sing by watching Stevie and Lindsay work out the harmonies to Angel, so it's always been a very special thing for me. But sadly, my vhs copy has long since worn out. I've never seen the outtakes.

The funny thing is that even now when I make coffee at work in the morning I think to myself, "They send me out to do these jobs because I'm the one that convinced them to get a Bunn coffee maker...", then I slap the little water lid shut and say to myself, "Coffee's making".

I know, I'm a big geek. :]

[skcin]

Changing the tone just a little here, what is your favorite live version of Sara? I have to say Melborne 1980 is mine. When she sings "Sara" after "All I ever wanted..." it always makes me teary eyed. It's so passionate. I also have a great version from Cleveland that year that is kind of strange and wonderful at the same time. Stevie sounds really out of it, misses her cue, gets lost in a word and forgets the rest of a line, and there are a few bum notes here and there, but at the end, during the vocal ad lib, she sounds so passionate. And when she sings "such a heatbeat" it just breaks your heart. She doesn't do "all I ever wanted..." but she does sing, "listen to that crazy wind because it would make you smile", which I dont' think I've ever heard her sing in any other live version.


I think she did the "listen to that crazy wind..." line a couple of other shows, but I don't know offhand which ones. Same era, though.

[Ghosty]

[QUOTE=UndoingTheLaces]The funny thing is that even now when I make coffee at work in the morning I think to myself, "They send me out to do these jobs because I'm the one that convinced them to get a Bunn coffee maker...", then I slap the little water lid shut and say to myself, "Coffee's making".

QUOTE]


I think that same thing too sometimes when making coffee! lol!

Ihave an old video copy but no way to copy it for you. :( I don't know about any outtakes from it. Don't you wish they'd just put all this stuff out o dvd for us? Like in the Las Vegas show when she is talking to the audience and says that she was going through her old stuff and video tapes and trying to think of stuff to pull out to do at that Las Vegas show...it's like....PLEEEEEEEEZE release all that!!! You're killing us here! ;)

[Ghosty]

Oh ya....and when I read how they recorded when they produced Beauty and the Beast for the Wild Heart album, and Stevie says they all got dressed up, and had the orchestra there, and had candles lit....it's like - please release this so we can see! How cool would that be?!