New Ledgie saying hi to all! [Archive]

bushesandbriars

05-25-2005, 06:22 PM

Welcome! :)

What do you write?

First, thanks to all for the warm welcomes, and to answer your question, I write a bit of everything--essays, short stories, fairy tales, longer works of fiction that sometimes think they want to be novels--but I have a passion for plays, and I hope that someday I will finish my grand opus (:laugh:) and get it produced somewhere-- even if it's just my own backyard! I really like dialogue that is tersely-written and laden with unspoken meaning, but I love novels and things like that too, and I have a lot of admiration for the people who can commit to them for that long.

Thanks for asking about my writing! Do you write too? (Or have any other work/calling you're commited too; I don't mean to be a literary snob!)

Edited because I made a typo! Whoops!

bushesandbriars

05-25-2005, 06:26 PM

Welcome to the room....Bushes :angel:

You know, I picked that 'cuz I'm a huge Sandy Denny fan and I couldn't come up with a great Stevie/Mac thing that wasn't taken, but now that you point it out, I am gonna be Bushes from this point forward, aren't I? Rats! Foiled again! :laugh:

GODDESS6

05-25-2005, 06:27 PM

welcome!!! :wavey: ~

Stevie4ever

05-25-2005, 06:31 PM

welcome :wavey:

I'm new too, glad I'm not the only one.

lagringader&r

05-25-2005, 06:32 PM

Hi and welcome! :woohoo:

bushesandbriars

05-25-2005, 06:33 PM

welcome :wavey:

I'm new too, glad I'm not the only one.

Well in that case welcome to you, too! :wavey:

MacMan

05-25-2005, 06:51 PM

Welcome to both of you actually.. and enjoy your time here... It's a rather interesting place, as I'm sure you know... Never boring!

GateandGarden

05-25-2005, 07:05 PM

Sorry I reached the thread a little late...welcome to The Ledge, you two! :wavey:

GypsySorcerer

05-25-2005, 07:06 PM

welcome :wavey:

I'm new too, glad I'm not the only one.

Welcome! :wavey:

Stephanie

05-25-2005, 07:55 PM

Welcome :wavey:

WelshWitchPMD

05-25-2005, 08:07 PM

Welcome to The Ledge, newbies.

EnchantedSLN

05-25-2005, 09:22 PM

Do you write too?

Only when I have to :laugh:. Nah, I have written some creative non-fiction for my own purposes, but it's not a regular hobby or a career aspiration. I think your passion for plays is pretty cool though. I admire people who can write fiction and the kind of dialogue you described well. Good luck with your pursuits... I hope we'll get to see that grand opus one day!

By the way, I love the Hepburn quote in your sig.

Welcome, Stevie4ever :wavey:

jannieC

05-25-2005, 10:12 PM

Hello and welcome from me, too! :wavey:

bushesandbriars

05-25-2005, 11:07 PM

Good luck with your pursuits... I hope we'll get to see that grand opus one day!

Thank you for that; I really appreciate it. I have to say, it dawned on me as I was reading your post that you are Tiffany of bluewhitefire.com fame. I love that site; it's one of my favorites, and the lyric allusions page is particularly awesome. It's such an original element of the site, and I think it's given me a lot insight into Stevie's work. But the main thing is your photographs; they are just amazing. If I could capture a moment with my dialogue half as well as you do with your photographs, I'd be pretty damn pleased with that!

By the way, I love the Hepburn quote in your sig.

Audrey was great, and that movie is my favorite romantic-suspense movie. Are you a fan of it, too?

EnchantedSLN

05-26-2005, 12:25 AM

I love that site; it's one of my favorites, and the lyric allusions page is particularly awesome. It's such an original element of the site, and I think it's given me a lot insight into Stevie's work. But the main thing is your photographs; they are just amazing. If I could capture a moment with my dialogue half as well as you do with your photographs, I'd be pretty damn pleased with that!

Wow, thank you :xoxo:. A lot of the allusions came from Lisa (Dark Angel). I'd been keeping a list as I found them for some time, but she discovered all the Evangeline Walton, Wilde, and Poe parallels. She's got a more complete list of references over at inspiredangel.com.

Audrey was great, and that movie is my favorite romantic-suspense movie. Are you a fan of it, too?

:nod: love it.

Johnny Stew

05-26-2005, 12:35 AM

A big hearty welcome to Bushes&Briars and Stevie4Ever!
Pull up a comfy chair and make yourselves at home. :)

David

05-26-2005, 12:40 AM

You know, I picked that 'cuz I'm a huge Sandy Denny fanSandy Denny? She shows up in the song "Blow Away"!

Miss Vicky

05-26-2005, 01:26 AM

GateandGarden

05-26-2005, 01:29 AM

On a side note - I certainly hope you are of a liberal mind. If not, I'd suggest avoiding some of the threads in the chit chat forum. It can get a bit heated in there. :nod::laugh: We should put a disclaimer on the homepage. "Before you consider registering here at The Ledge, you should be aware..." :laugh:

strandinthewind

05-26-2005, 08:21 AM

Welcome from a fellow writer! :wavey:

On a side note - I certainly hope you are of a liberal mind. If not, I'd suggest avoiding some of the threads in the chit chat forum. It can get a bit heated in there. :nod:

They sure do :laugh:

Seriously though, I think anyone can jump in. They better, however be prepared and well read because this is a tough crowd :nod: They also better be prepared with better than a blanket statement like "George W. Bush is the best thing that ever happened to this country - he protects us" or "John Kerry would have been the best thing for this nation because he would better protect us" - that kind of blanket crap just won't fly. Around here, ya better get ready to discuss the facts, which sadly, rarely support anything W has ever done, unless effectively you are really rich, employed, white Christian who has private medical insurance and owns Halliburton stock :eek: BTW - I have the facts to back that up :laugh:

On edit - welcome everyone!

johnny4406

05-26-2005, 09:50 AM

I never really introduced myself either.. My name is John. Im 21 and I live in Fort Lauderdale, Florida. Ive been a fan for a really long time. My mom only owned "Bella Donna" and always felt it was a masterpiece, but never realized that Stevie Nicks was the same person as the singer in Fleetwood Mac. So I grew up jamming to my Bella Donna LP from the age of 4 til THE DANCE came out on MTV. There was so much hype about it, so we decided to watch it. When we did, we fell into love with FM. And after we bought "Rumours" we realized it was the same girl. And so on from there. What can I say? We were never into music til we found Fleetwood Mac! :woohoo:

ok, ill shut up now.

ka10

05-26-2005, 10:16 AM

Sandy Denny? She shows up in the song "Blow Away"!

Ahhh... another Kate Bush fan! And I thought we were an endangered breed... ;)

And since everyone seems to be introducing themselves in this thread, may I say a nice "Howdy" to y'all. :wavey: I've quite enjoyed the discussions here!

~Kat

bushesandbriars

05-26-2005, 01:19 PM

Wow, thank you :xoxo:.

You're quite welcome. :nod:

She's got a more complete list of references over at inspiredangel.com.

I've actually somehow managed to miss that page, but I sure will check it out. Good on ya, Lisa, wherever you may be!

:nod: love it.

You rock.

bushesandbriars

05-26-2005, 01:24 PM

Sandy Denny? She shows up in the song "Blow Away"!

If you're a Sandy Denny fan on top of being a Stevie fan, I will love you forever. :nod: There are about three of us in the U.S., I think; I had to order her new boxed set from Amazon U.K. because I am that much of a lunatic.

Is "Blow Away" Kate Bush? I have to confess to total Kate ignorance except "Wuthering Heights," which I know via Pat Benatar, and "Don't Give Up" with Peter Gabriel. I mean, I know some of her writing, but very little of her music. :sorry:

BTFLCHLD

05-26-2005, 01:25 PM

They sure do :laugh:

Seriously though, I think anyone can jump in. They better, however be prepared and well read because this is a tough crowd :nod: They also better be prepared with better than a blanket statement like "George W. Bush is the best thing that ever happened to this country - he protects us" or "John Kerry would have been the best thing for this nation because he would better protect us" - that kind of blanket crap just won't fly. Around here, ya better get ready to discuss the facts, which sadly, rarely support anything W has ever done, unless effectively you are really rich, employed, white Christian who has private medical insurance and owns Halliburton stock :eek: BTW - I have the facts to back that up :laugh:

On edit - welcome everyone!

youre such a weiner :nod:

strandinthewind

05-26-2005, 01:26 PM

youre such a weiner :nod:

But at least I am a big one - hey wait a minute :laugh:

bushesandbriars

05-26-2005, 01:31 PM

Welcome from a fellow writer! :wavey:

Ah, and what do you like to write? Anything in the works? And do you have any particular cure-alls for writer's block? I'm always curious about what other writers do to work through it; sometimes I can steal their methods and use them myself!

On a side note - I certainly hope you are of a liberal mind. If not, I'd suggest avoiding some of the threads in the chit chat forum. It can get a bit heated in there. :nod:

I am indeed of a liberal mind, but I have to admit I have never been in the chit-chat forum, though I've been in pretty much all the others reading posts. I have to say, things get pretty passionate over here, too--part of what I admire about this place. :nod: Thanks for the tip, and for the welcome! :wavey:

seeker007nmss

05-26-2005, 01:32 PM

Ahhh... another Kate Bush fan! And I thought we were an endangered breed... ;)

~Kat

Howdy to all the New folks! And yes, there are a few of us Kate fans out there! :nod:

Miss Vicky

05-26-2005, 01:43 PM

Ah, and what do you like to write? Anything in the works? And do you have any particular cure-alls for writer's block? I'm always curious about what other writers do to work through it; sometimes I can steal their methods and use them myself!

I mostly write short fiction but am currently attempting my first novel. I haven't had anything published yet but you can download and read three of my stories <a href="http://missvicky.741.com/fiction.html">here</a>.
If only I knew a cure for writer's block - then maybe the dozen or so half-completed stories would actually get done and my novel would have been finished years ago (I've been working on it about five years now).
I tend to start a story, get blocked, quit, start a new story, get blocked, look at the first story, still have no new ideas, then start a third story, get blocked again, look at the previous two, still have no new ideas, and start a fourth story. And so goes the vicious cycle. As such I've only completed a handful of works (in the ten years or so that I've been writing), and I only consider three of them (those posted in the link above) to be at all worthwhile.

strandinthewind

05-26-2005, 01:45 PM

. . . If only I knew a cure for writer's block . . . .

Have dinner with Tom Petty :shrug:

:p :p

Miss Vicky

05-26-2005, 01:49 PM

Have dinner with Tom Petty :shrug:

:p :p

I'd love to - but somehow I think I'd be entirely too distracted afterwards to be able to complete anything. It would be quite counter productive I think.

bushesandbriars

05-26-2005, 01:50 PM

Seriously though, I think anyone can jump in. They better, however be prepared and well read because this is a tough crowd :nod: They also better be prepared with better than a blanket statement like "George W. Bush is the best thing that ever happened to this country - he protects us" or "John Kerry would have been the best thing for this nation because he would better protect us" - that kind of blanket crap just won't fly. Around here, ya better get ready to discuss the facts, which sadly, rarely support anything W has ever done, unless effectively you are really rich, employed, white Christian who has private medical insurance and owns Halliburton stock :eek: BTW - I have the facts to back that up :laugh:

On edit - welcome everyone!

You mean like, "GWB has the diplomatic tact of a bull in a china shop," followed by a long list of his diplomatic blunders, including when 99 Australians were killed in a nightclub in Indonesia a few years back simply because of Australia's long association with this country, and he didn't say boo about it, not "I'm sorry" or anything, even though Australians have fought and died beside Americans in wars at least since WWI; they even fought in Vietnam. Something like that? Or the fact he treats the entirety of Britain like America's lapdog? And those countries are our allies; don't even get me started on countries we're fighting or with whome we have strained relations.

I'm an American, BTW, if that's important. I don't mean to piss anyone off; just my opinion.

Oh, and don't forget the Pennezoil stock. :angel:

bushesandbriars

05-26-2005, 01:55 PM

My mom only owned "Bella Donna" and always felt it was a masterpiece,

Johnny, you are a man of taste! :nod: (Bella's a fave of mine, too, of course.)

Thanks for the welcome, and welcome to you, too! :wavey:

strandinthewind

05-26-2005, 02:10 PM

I'd love to - but somehow I think I'd be entirely too distracted afterwards to be able to complete anything. It would be quite counter productive I think.

Yes, but that would make your stronger - make you hold on to you :wavey: :wavey: :wavey:

strandinthewind

05-26-2005, 02:11 PM

You mean like, "GWB has the diplomatic tact of a bull in a china shop," followed by a long list of his diplomatic blunders, including when 99 Australians were killed in a nightclub in Indonesia a few years back simply because of Australia's long association with this country, and he didn't say boo about it, not "I'm sorry" or anything, even though Australians have fought and died beside Americans in wars at least since WWI; they even fought in Vietnam. Something like that? Or the fact he treats the entirety of Britain like America's lapdog? And those countries are our allies; don't even get me started on countries we're fighting or with whome we have strained relations.

Well, there's that :cool: Not to mention my pet peeve, which is if gay people cause such dissention in the ranks of American troops, I think we should refuse to ally ourselves with countries that accept openly gay troops, lest one of our politically alleged ultra sensitive troops has some horrifying exposure. But, nooooooooooooo - then it is fine because that would mean not allying with GB, Australia and many others. Hypocrites - the lot of them :mad:

Welcome aboard - Dissention and Goldie will be examining your liberal credentials on the Chit Chat forum - mine probably failed BTW :eek:

bushesandbriars

05-26-2005, 02:20 PM

I mostly write short fiction but am currently attempting my first novel. I haven't had anything published yet but you can download and read three of my stories

I followed the link and read "Innocent and Unknowing" because you said that was your favorite of the ones posted. I liked it a lot; I thought the drama of the story was really immediate, and the pace was right. You moved things along really well, which I thought suited the overall atmosphere and mood of the action, especially Darren's frenetic, unhappy state of mind. (God, I sound like someone's high school creative writing teacher; I mean what I say, though.) :nod: What's your novel about, if that's not too personal and won't mess up your writing karma? (I find if I go on about an idea, sometimes I lose it.)

If only I knew a cure for writer's block - then maybe the dozen or so half-completed stories would actually get done and my novel would have been finished years ago (I've been working on it about five years now).
I tend to start a story, get blocked, quit, start a new story, get blocked, look at the first story, still have no new ideas, then start a third story, get blocked again, look at the previous two, still have no new ideas, and start a fourth story. And so goes the vicious cycle. As such I've only completed a handful of works (in the ten years or so that I've been writing), and I only consider three of them (those posted in the link above) to be at all worthwhile.

You sound precisely like me; I have several things I'm working on, and have been for several years, but I tend to get a few ideas and write on them in bursts, then reach an impasse, or life interferes. Dratted real life! :laugh: If I ever come up with a cure for writer's block, I'm bottling and selling it and making my fortune. :laugh:

Do you ever read Anne Lamott? I'm not much on her novels, but she wrote this book about writing called Bird by Bird, and I find bits of it preachy, but some of her actual advice is good. She suggests that every day before you write, you work up a little ritual to tell your brain it's time to get in writer mode, like lighting a candle and taking a few deep breaths and taking a moment to just relax and get focused, and I find that pretty valuable, so that may help you, if you don't already have a ritual worked out. Actually ritual sounds a little dramatic; maybe routine is a better word. And keep at it, which I'm sure you don't need me to tell you, if you've been writing this long already. I firmly believe writing is a calling of sorts, and if you have it, and it sure looks like you do, it'll be with you all the time. That's the thing that keeps me going when I feel frustrated and miserable with it.

Okay, enough rambling on from me

bushesandbriars

05-26-2005, 02:34 PM

Well, there's that :cool: Not to mention my pet peeve, which is if gay people cause such dissention in the ranks of American troops, I think we should refuse to ally ourselves with countries that accept openly gay troops, lest one of our politically alleged ultra sensitive troops has some horrifying exposure. But, nooooooooooooo - then it is fine because that would mean not allying with GB, Australia and many others. Hypocrites - the lot of them :mad:

I agree with you; that whole thing gives me a migraine. It's like, Okay, you can kill people, but men having a relationship is just too immoral for your delicate blood? Whatever. It just goes back to the point I was making about how we disrespect other countries, even ones that are supposed to be our allies. I always thought "ally" meant you helped each other out of tight spots, not, "Okay, we'll give you economic assistance if you'll do what we say, when we say. If not, we'll just cut you off." It's probably naive of me to think that, but I do find it an incredibly cynical way of doing business. But then, it is a business, isn't it?

Okay, I feel a rant coming on, so I'll just stop.

Welcome aboard - Dissention and Goldie will be examining your liberal credentials on the Chit Chat forum - mine probably failed BTW :eek:

I know Dissention a bit, but not Goldie, and I think we'll get along. And thanks for the welcome. :wavey:

strandinthewind

05-26-2005, 02:38 PM

. . .

Okay, I feel a rant coming on, so I'll just stop.

LOL - rant all you want - we usually do around here :laugh: I think I failed the liberal test because I never really immediately conclude - I have to think it through - and I am for a flat tax - and that usually pisses people off ( :wavey Tower :xoxo: :xoxo: :xoxo: )

bushesandbriars

05-26-2005, 02:47 PM

LOL - rant all you want - we usually do around here :laugh: I think I failed the liberal test because I never really immediately conclude - I have to think it through.

I think things through, too, and I don't really see that as being antithetical to being liberal, just to being a reactionary. I don't much care for kneejerk-ism on either side of the line.

and I am for a flat tax - and that usually pisses people off ( :wavey Tower :xoxo: :xoxo: :xoxo: )

I am, too, actually, as long as it applied to everyone, and not just people in lower tax brackets now. If Donald trump paid ten percent or whatever of what he makes, with no tax breaks or exceptions, he would be paying his fair share, because 10% of $10,000,000 is a lot more than 10% of $30,000, as opposed to the nearly 33% most working and middle class people pay right now, while upper brackets pay very little, because they use the tax laws for all sorts of breaks. I actually think a flat tax that applied to all would be a break for the little (and mid-size) guy.

strandinthewind

05-26-2005, 02:49 PM

. . . I am, too, actually, as long as it applied to everyone, and not just people in lower tax brackets now. If Donald trump paid ten percent or whatever of what he makes, with no tax breaks or exceptions, he would be paying his fair share, because 10% of $10,000,000 is a lot more than 10% of $30,000, as opposed to the nearly 33% most working and middle class people pay right now, while upper brackets pay very little, because they use the tax laws for all sorts of breaks. I actually think a flat tax that applied to all would be a break for the little (and mid-size) guy.

Ah - great minds think alike - but wait till Dissy has a hissy in here about this :laugh:

AND - I would even be for not taxing anything under $30,000 a year and taxing everyone else at 15% with no (and I mean NO) esxemptions. I think the idea that some people pay over a third of what they make just in Fed. Income tax (not to mention SS tax, state income tax, excise taxes, etc.) is reprehensible.

amber

05-26-2005, 02:50 PM

strandinthewind

05-26-2005, 02:54 PM

Flat taxes are still regressive. :wavey:

SEE - what did I tell ya :laugh:

:wavey: Amber - AND BTW - if we exclude any income earners under $30,000 how is that such a bad thing?

dissention

05-26-2005, 02:56 PM

Welcome to the board. :xoxo:

strandinthewind

05-26-2005, 02:57 PM

Welcome to the board. :xoxo:

and another liberal to boot :p :p :p :woohoo: though his position on the flat tax may prevent him, like me, from the golden key to the Executive Washroom, which BTW is very Republican of you all :laugh:

dissention

05-26-2005, 02:58 PM

Welcome aboard - Dissention and Goldie will be examining your liberal credentials on the Chit Chat forum - mine probably failed BTW :eek:

:laugh: You make us sound so evil.

bushesandbriars

05-26-2005, 02:59 PM

Ah - great minds think alike - but wait till Dissy has a hissy in here about this :laugh:

AND - I would even be for not taxing anything under $30,000 a year and taxing everyone else at 15% with no (and I mean NO) esxemptions. I think the idea that some people pay over a third of what they make just in Fed. Income tax (not to mention SS tax, state income tax, excise taxes, etc.) is reprehensible.

You're probably right about the $30,000 and under; no one living on the edge of poverty or below should have to pay a single dime. People who are barely getting by should not have to pay. I actually think Britain has a lot of great ideas about programs that are government run, like the way they do student payback for university--you don't pay anything until you're through university, and people who can't pay, like new mothers and the unemployed, don't pay into the system after graduation until they're ready to. I think that's great. It removed the (very elitist) cap on how many students could attend university. I do admire Blair for that, though I have to wonder since he and Bush are so tight. I know he's having a helluva time with his popularity as well. (I also have a vague crush on him, but that's neither here nor there. :wavey: )

strandinthewind

05-26-2005, 03:00 PM

:laugh: You make us sound so evil.

and just when we were holding hands :xoxo: :xoxo: :xoxo:

strandinthewind

05-26-2005, 03:01 PM

. . . (I also have a vague crush on him, but that's neither here nor there. :wavey: )

as much as I am loathe to admit it, I had one on Margaret Thatcher :eek:

amber

05-26-2005, 03:01 PM

SEE - what did I tell ya :laugh:

:wavey: Amber - AND BTW - if we exclude any income earners under $30,000 how is that such a bad thing?
Ah, I misread that. mea culpa - JUST THIS ONCE, THOUGH! :laugh:

strandinthewind

05-26-2005, 03:04 PM

A flat tax is regressive taxation and makes no sense. Again, are you advocating what Shrub tried to pass off to the public back in August? Get rid of income taxes and simply institute a flat federal sales tax? Go tell someone making $12,000 a year with three kids that the next time they purchase toothpaste, they're going to pay a 20-25% tax on each dollar spent.

You boob - I excluded anyone making under $30,000 a year in my model for a flat tax - NEXT :wavey:

On edit - GOTCHA :p :woohoo: :p :wavey:

dissention

05-26-2005, 03:06 PM

Ah - great minds think alike - but wait till Dissy has a hissy in here about this :laugh:

Flat tax = regressive taxation. I told you that when Shrub first tried to foist his flat federal sales tax bullshit on the public back in August, it still hasn't sunken in, eh? :p

bushesandbriars

05-26-2005, 03:07 PM

Flat taxes are still regressive. :wavey:

I don't get how a system wherein people pay according to what they make, and no more and no less, that exempts people who are struggling to get by and assigns the brunt of the tax burden onto the rich, who are the most able to pay and who pay virtually squat right now, is regressive, but okay. :wavey: You probably pay more taxes than Bill Gates does, but I suppose as long as politicians can get the middle and working classes to keep arguing over the regressiveness of the flat tax, no one will have to worry about it being passed. I, for one, don't care if an idea is liberal or conservative in origin as long as it helps the people who need help. I don't care if Steve Forbes cries every other year on April 15th if it means a poor kid gets a decent education. Just my opinion. :nod:

dissention

05-26-2005, 03:07 PM

You boob - I excluded anyone making under $30,000 a year in my model for a flat tax - NEXT :wavey:

On edit - GOTCHA :p :woohoo: :p :wavey:

I know, I posted that before I read what you said. But I still think it's shit ;)

strandinthewind

05-26-2005, 03:08 PM

Flat tax = regressive taxation. I told you that when Shrub first tried to foist his flat federal sales tax bullshit on the public back in August, it still hasn't sunken in, eh? :p

Blah Blah Blah - BTW I LOVE that I caught your deleted post - though I admit it is unfair because you at least had the sense to delete it :)

Again, I am talking about a flat federal INCOME tax - you boob :laugh:

dissention

05-26-2005, 03:09 PM

You probably pay more taxes than Bill Gates does, but

Most definitely. Didn't you hear what Shrub said back in September? It doesn't matter what the tax laws are, the rich get out of paying them regardless. :woohoo:

strandinthewind

05-26-2005, 03:11 PM

I don't get how a system wherein people pay according to what they make, and no more and no less, that exempts people who are struggling to get by and assigns the brunt of the tax burden onto the rich, who are the most able to pay and who pay virtually squat right now, is regressive, but okay. :wavey: You probably pay more taxes than Bill Gates does, but I suppose as long as politicians can get the middle and working classes to keep arguing over the regressiveness of the flat tax, no one will have to worry about it being passed. I, for one, don't care if an idea is liberal or conservative in origin as long as it helps the people who need help. I don't care if Steve Forbes cries every other year on April 15th if it means a poor kid gets a decent education. Just my opinion. :nod:

I just think that punishing someone for striving to do better is wrong and that is what a progressive income tax does. I also will forever this it is assinine that anyone pays over maybe 15 to 20 % of what they make to the Fed. Govt. just so the govt. can line some companies pockets. And when I say that I mean from Halliburton on down to some minority company getting a contract with an outrageous bid just because they are a minority company. The Fed. Govt. is one big pork pie and I HATE having to pay for it :mad:

cliffdweller

05-26-2005, 03:13 PM

Sorry I'm coming in late on this thread; welcome Ledgie newbies! :woohoo:

Strand and Diss:
You boys play nice! This is supposed to be a welcoming thread and here you two go off on flat taxes!:laugh: It's enough to put me in snooze land :laugh::laugh:

strandinthewind

05-26-2005, 03:15 PM

Most definitely. Didn't you hear what Shrub said back in September? It doesn't matter what the tax laws are, the rich get out of paying them regardless. :woohoo:

which is exactly why the flat income tax with no deductions I mentioned would be better for all. BTW - the alternative minimum tax (which I also hate :laugh: ) pretty much ensures no one falls below a certain rate though some can and do. Here is a site on that tax http://www.smartmoney.com/tax/filing/index.cfm?story=amt

I think many are loathe to accept that someone making $200,000 or more a year (that is their benchmark not mine) deserves anything but a 50% tax rate. I mean scream them - they are rich so they deserve it :rolleyes:

bushesandbriars

05-26-2005, 03:22 PM

Most definitely. Didn't you hear what Shrub said back in September? It doesn't matter what the tax laws are, the rich get out of paying them regardless. :woohoo:

Yes, but I am talking about an actual flat income tax, not the ravings of Dubya's deranged mind. Nothing he says he says in worth paying attention to. (Oops, there's one of those blankets statements. :laugh: ) I'm just pointing out that a flat income tax assigned according to who could pay it, with the only--and I mean--ONLY--exemptions being those who simply cannot pay it, the people who are struggling right now to make ends meet, and the people who are failing to make ends meet. With no tricks or mumbo jumbo, would be the most progressive course possible in any nation: It would take the burden of the poor, the working, and the middle class people, and put it on the people who it should be on anyway: Rich people, who can pay it. I also know that there is about as much chance of this happening as I have of becoming Queen of England (a damn shame, too, because I look great in a tiara and I think I could get used to the purse, and Prince Philip is cute in a charming-old-English-gent sort of way, though I'm not sure if I could endure Charles.)

Anyway, my two cents.

Oh, and Dissention? I don't think you're scary at all. :xoxo: (I assume you're being kind since it's my first time and all. :laugh: )

Miss Vicky

05-26-2005, 03:25 PM

I followed the link and read "Innocent and Unknowing" because you said that was your favorite of the ones posted. I liked it a lot; I thought the drama of the story was really immediate, and the pace was right. You moved things along really well, which I thought suited the overall atmosphere and mood of the action, especially Darren's frenetic, unhappy state of mind. (God, I sound like someone's high school creative writing teacher; I mean what I say, though.) :nod: What's your novel about, if that's not too personal and won't mess up your writing karma? (I find if I go on about an idea, sometimes I lose it.)

Hmm... my high school teacher told me to rewrite the ending because he "didn't get it." I smiled, told him "I'll think about it," and then did nothing of the sort.
My novel... started out as a challenge to write a simple love story with a happy ending (something I NEVER do). I couldn't get started so I changed the idea to a simple gay love story with a happy ending... the premise now bears absolutely no resemblance to the original idea and was never intended to be a novel but it kind of ended up that way. Now it's about an 18 year old boy who find himself homeless and out of desperation becomes a male escort. But don't get the wrong impression, it is not erotica. I've tried to keep the sexual aspect to a minimum and only include erotic scenes that are pertinent to the plot or to character development. The protagonist, Jordan, is an extremely insecure young man who finds himself involved with four love interests. One is a wealthy and kind hearted middle-aged man who has an almost paternal relationship with Jordan. Another is a young man - in his twenties - who is extremely possesive and ultimately abusive. Third is a woman in her late twenties who offers a relationship based on equality. The fourth is an insecure virginal girl about the same age as Jordan who looks to him for support. Initially, only the middle-aged man knows that Jordan is a prostitute. I have decided how the story will end, and it's not really happy, but I won't reveal the details right now.

You sound precisely like me; I have several things I'm working on, and have been for several years, but I tend to get a few ideas and write on them in bursts, then reach an impasse, or life interferes. Dratted real life! :laugh: If I ever come up with a cure for writer's block, I'm bottling and selling it and making my fortune. :laugh:

Do you ever read Anne Lamott? I'm not much on her novels, but she wrote this book about writing called Bird by Bird, and I find bits of it preachy, but some of her actual advice is good. She suggests that every day before you write, you work up a little ritual to tell your brain it's time to get in writer mode, like lighting a candle and taking a few deep breaths and taking a moment to just relax and get focused, and I find that pretty valuable, so that may help you, if you don't already have a ritual worked out. Actually ritual sounds a little dramatic; maybe routine is a better word. And keep at it, which I'm sure you don't need me to tell you, if you've been writing this long already. I firmly believe writing is a calling of sorts, and if you have it, and it sure looks like you do, it'll be with you all the time. That's the thing that keeps me going when I feel frustrated and miserable with it.

Okay, enough rambling on from me

You'd make a killing selling that.

As for Anne Lamott, I am one of those really bad writers who almost NEVER reads anything - though really cheesy period romance novels are a guilty pleasure. I write because I hate reading; I only rarely ever find anything that can get and keep my interest so I usually don't even bother to look. :sorry:

bushesandbriars

05-26-2005, 03:32 PM

I just think that punishing someone for striving to do better is wrong and that is what a progressive income tax does. I also will forever this it is assinine that anyone pays over maybe 15 to 20 % of what they make to the Fed. Govt. just so the govt. can line some companies pockets. And when I say that I mean from Halliburton on down to some minority company getting a contract with an outrageous bid just because they are a minority company. The Fed. Govt. is one big pork pie and I HATE having to pay for it :mad:

Maybe, but you have to understand that this is where it all starts: One group of people of people does not like having to help another group of people, and the people who have the wherewithal can then turn around and pay politicians to endorse their opinions, while the little squirt gets hosed; that's what I hate. Money's not everything, and the richest one percent of this country should have to help everyone; they're the ones with the means to do it. So when you start getting into, but this and but that, then you're right back to square one: The people in the middle getting stuck, because they have no way to buy people to make policy for them. The rich people buy their way out of it and into more money, and the poor people simply cannot pay--the government can try, but these people do not have it to give, and they need the help. And I'm all for help being given where it's needed, not paid for.

Just my opinion--we're going to start fighting, are we? 'Cuz that was a short damn honeymoon, if we are! :laugh: I see your point, I'm just not sure I agree.

strandinthewind

05-26-2005, 03:39 PM

Maybe, but you have to understand that this is where it all starts: One group of people of people does not like having to help another group of people, and the people who have the wherewithal can then turn around and pay politicians to endorse their opinions, while the little squirt gets hosed; that's what I hate. Money's not everything, and the richest one percent of this country should have to help everyone; they're the ones with the means to do it. So when you start getting into, but this and but that, then you're right back to square one: The people in the middle getting stuck, because they have no way to buy people to make policy for them. The rich people buy their way out of it and into more money, and the poor people simply cannot pay--the government can try, but these people do not have it to give, and they need the help. And I'm all for help being given where it's needed, not paid for

I totally agree. That is why I am all for getting rid of deductions and exemptions - it would rid us of a bunch of the special interest groups and their swagger. I also totally agree with you that anyone who can demonstrate poverty should not pay one dime in tax - period. The problem will of course come with the def. of poverty - again lead by the special interest groups :mad:

J ust my opinion--we're going to start fighting, are we? 'Cuz that was a short damn honeymoon, if we are! :laugh: I see your point, I'm just not sure I agree.

No, no fighting yet. But, no handholding either because I kind of miss Diss. :confused:

amber

05-26-2005, 03:41 PM

I totally agree. That is why I am all for getting rid of deductions and exemptions - it would rid us of a bunch of the special interest groups and their swagger. I also totally agree with you that anyone who can demonstrate poverty should not pay one dime in tax - period. The problem will of course come with the def. of poverty - again lead by the special interest groups :mad:

I am almost considering the merits of what you said. Almost.

strandinthewind

05-26-2005, 03:42 PM

dissention

05-26-2005, 03:42 PM

Oh, and Dissention? I don't think you're scary at all. :xoxo: (I assume you're being kind since it's my first time and all. :laugh: )

I am. :laugh:

But just wait until you wade into the threads on the Chit Chat board, all bets are off. :xoxo:

strandinthewind

05-26-2005, 03:45 PM

I am almost considering the merits of what you said. Almost.

just turn the corner and come in out of the darkness :p

Seriously, I totally get that no one poor should pay tax. I would set that bar at taxation starts at $30,000 or more a year and it is a flat tax of at most 20%. I think that would force the porcine govt. into a leaner state even if it produced some politicians sudoriferous over the demise of the special interest groups and their millions a year in perks to those slimeballs.

bushesandbriars

05-26-2005, 03:49 PM

Hmm... my high school teacher told me to rewrite the ending because he "didn't get it." I smiled, told him "I'll think about it," and then did nothing of the sort.

That's one of those things where you have to make your own mind up and consider the source. James Joyce's brother, Stanislaus, told him that Ulysses was obviously the product of an infantile mind, and that he was ruining literature. And now that novel makes every "best of" list from here to Kingdom Come. You know when criticism is valuable and when it isn't.

My novel... started out as a challenge to write a simple love story with a happy ending (something I NEVER do). I couldn't get started so I changed the idea to a simple gay love story with a happy ending... the premise now bears absolutely no resemblance to the original idea and was never intended to be a novel but it kind of ended up that way. Now it's about an 18 year old boy who find himself homeless and out of desperation becomes a male escort. But don't get the wrong impression, it is not erotica. I've tried to keep the sexual aspect to minimum and only include erotic scenes that are pertinent to the plot or to character building. The protagonist, Jordan, is an extremely insecure young man who finds himself involved with four love interests. One is a wealthy and kind hearted middle-aged man who has an almost paternal relationship with Jordan. Another is a young man - in his twenties - who is extremely possesive and ultimately abusive. Third is a woman in her late twenties who offers a relationship based on equality. The fourth is an insecure virginal girl about the same age as Jordan who looks to him for support. Initially, only the middle-aged man knows that Jordan is a prostitute. I have decided how the story will end, but I won't reveal that right now. [/QUOTE]

That sounds really intriguing, and I think one of the things I love best about writing is the way an idea will morph and shift, and something you didn't get one day suddenly becomes clear, like a firecracker goes of in your brain. It sounds complex and like you have some rich opportunities to play around with character development and dialogue.

You'd make a killing selling that.

Tell me about it. If only. :laugh:

As for Anne Lamott, I am one of those really bad writers who almost NEVER reads anything - though really cheesy period romance novels are a guilty pleasure. I write because I hate reading; I only rarely ever find anything that can get and keep my interest so I usually don't even bother to look. :sorry:

Out of curiosity, who have you tried and disliked? I know how hard it can be to find people you really like to read. I don't want to sound bossy; just curious. I usually read a lot of older novelists, because I don't tend to be too into a lot of scene today--Tom Clancy, John Grisham, et. all--I find them a bit dry, though I am not trying to insult people who enjoy them. To each her own. :nod: Though I will say that the more you read, the stronger your own craft gets, in my opinion, but again I don't want to sound all bossy and holier-than-thou, because everyone has a different technique, and I can't speak from anything other than my own. 'nuf said. :nod:

bushesandbriars

05-26-2005, 03:54 PM

I am. :laugh:

And they say chivalry is dead, the bastards. :laugh:

But just wait until you wade into the threads on the Chit Chat board, all bets are off. :xoxo:

Bring it on. :wavey:

Oh, and everyone keeps saying, "wade" in relation to chit-chat--as in, "through the river Styx," or more like, "through s**t"? :angel:

dissention

05-26-2005, 03:55 PM

That's one of those things where you have to make your own mind up and consider the source. James Joyce's brother, Stanislaus, told him that Ulysses was obviously the product of an infantile mind, and that he was ruining literature. And now that novel makes every "best of" list from here to Kingdom Come. You know when criticism is valuable and when it isn't.

I usually read a lot of older novelists, because I don't tend to be too into a lot of scene today--Tom Clancy, John Grisham, et. all--I find them a bit dry, though I am not trying to insult people who enjoy them.

I think I like you already. :laugh:

amber

05-26-2005, 03:56 PM

And they say chivalry is dead, the bastards. :laugh:

Bring it on. :wavey:

Oh, and everyone keeps saying, "wade" in relation to chit-chat--as in, "through the river Styx," or more like, "through s**t"? :angel:
More like through the most convoluted and meaningless (yet fun) arguments you've ever seen in your life. Which go on forever. So, with the meaninglessness, and the going on foreverness, it's a bit like both sh** and the river styx. :wavey:

Miss Vicky

05-26-2005, 03:58 PM

Out of curiosity, who have you tried and disliked? I know how hard it can be to find people you really like to read. I don't want to sound bossy; just curious. I usually read a lot of older novelists, because I don't tend to be too into a lot of scene today--Tom Clancy, John Grisham, et. all--I find them a bit dry, though I am not trying to insult people who enjoy them. To each her own. :nod: Though I will say that the more you read, the stronger your own craft gets, in my opinion, but again I don't want to sound all bossy and holier-than-thou, because everyone has a different technique, and I can't speak from anything other than my own. 'nuf said. :nod:

I don't really stick to particular authors as none of them seem to be consistent in their quality. I go more by themes and premises. On the rare occasion that I am in a bookstore or library, I pick up books with interesting titles, read the back cover and then decide from there if I want to read it.
Another reason why I don't do much reading is the issue of time. Between work, school, and an attempt at a social life, I don't have much time for reading. What little free time I do have I try to dedicate to writing. I make an effort to work on my novel at least once a day and do much of my writing during my lunch breaks.
BTW - don't worry, I don't get offended very easily and you didn't come off as being preachy or anything.

bushesandbriars

05-26-2005, 03:59 PM

Another thing about special interest groups, the far right religious zealots are the worst IMO. They have been calculating for a theocracy since the end of WWII. They used Goddless Communism to insert religion here and there a la the Pledge of Allegiance and now that 50 or so years has gone by, they can rest easy knowing most asssume it was always there. They will bring this country to civil war IMO if they are not stopped.

Whew, we still love each other. :xoxo:

And again, I agree--have you ever, out of curiosity, read The Handmaid's Tale by Margaret Atwood? It is one of the most frightening and brilliant political novels I know, and about that very thing. I don't know if you'd have war out in the streets, but I certainly think the bad feeling and tension that is going is just incredibly unsettling and scary, so who knows? :confused:

dissention

05-26-2005, 03:59 PM

Bring it on. :wavey:

Oh, and everyone keeps saying, "wade" in relation to chit-chat--as in, "through the river Styx," or more like, "through s**t"? :angel:

Both, dear. :wavey:

There's a lot of bullshit, but it's fun bullshit.

bushesandbriars

05-26-2005, 04:01 PM

There's a lot of bullshit, but it's fun bullshit.

I love fun bullshit. It's all the other kind I hate. Which is pretty much most bullshit, now that I think of it.

strandinthewind

05-26-2005, 04:01 PM

dissention

05-26-2005, 04:02 PM

amber

05-26-2005, 04:02 PM

Both, dear. :wavey:

There's a lot of bullshit, but it's fun bullshit.

More like through the most convoluted and meaningless (yet fun) arguments you've ever seen in your life. Which go on forever. So, with the meaninglessness, and the going on foreverness, it's a bit like both sh** and the river styx.

And did anyone mention repitition?

amber

05-26-2005, 04:04 PM

dissention

05-26-2005, 04:04 PM

And did anyone mention repitition?

Great minds think alike.

strandinthewind

05-26-2005, 04:07 PM

Whew, we still love each other. :xoxo:

And again, I agree--have you ever, out of curiosity, read The Handmaid's Tale by Margaret Atwood? It is one of the most frightening and brilliant political novels I know, and about that very thing. I don't know if you'd have war out in the streets, but I certainly think the bad feeling and tension that is going is just incredibly unsettling and scary, so who knows? :confused:

Ya mean a story about a religious soceity that takes over fairly sane minded population - hello - we are soooo headed that way. But, in my 38 years, I have seen that all things are cyclical and the tide seems to be turning against W and his ilk. I mean the House just balked at W and passed the stem cell bill and I think W's INSANE SS changes which in no way significantly address the underfunding of SS for the long run are dead in the water and W knows it. I do not think that would have happened three years ago. So, I have faith that people will come to their senses. Otherwise, Paris, here I come.

strandinthewind

05-26-2005, 04:09 PM

Well, but you'd have to always read it out loud, as it would not be the same without your impressions.... :D

Lord Child - you are right on that - puff puff - swig!

I just may have to go and get some margaritas tonight :shocked:

amber

05-26-2005, 04:10 PM

Lord Child - you are right on that - puff puff - swig!

I just may have to go and get some margaritas tonight :shocked:
With your mom vicariously there, I hope. :cool: You brought me back to the days when MY mom read "Around the World With Auntie Mame" out loud to ME.... :laugh:

strandinthewind

05-26-2005, 04:14 PM

With your mom vicariously there, I hope. :cool: You brought me back to the days when MY mom read "Around the World With Auntie Mame" out loud to ME.... :laugh:

I know - we would act it out and I was, of course, VERA :eek: :laugh:

My mom had eye surgery yesterday - nothing big - just cataracts and she goes in again next week for the other eye. At her age 49 (translation very late 70's) it is scary anytime something has to be done. But, she handled it like a trooper and was heard opining yesterday "Well that was easy, it was getting up at 6:00 and going in public with putting on my face that was tough" :eek: :laugh:

bushesandbriars

05-26-2005, 04:14 PM

I don't really stick to particular authors as none of them seem to be consistent in their quality. I go more by themes and premises. On the rare occasion that I am in a bookstore or library, I pick up books with interesting titles, read the back cover and then decide from there if I want to read it.

Sometimes if you read the first page instead it gives a better feel; at least that's what I do. The people who make up the blurbs regarding what a book is about are like the people who make up what lipstick is called: I firmly believe they sit in their offices, throwing a racquet ball against the wall a la Steve McQueen in The Great Escape until something that sounds like publishable b.s. strikes them.

What little free time I do have I try to dedicate to writing. I make an effort to work on my novel at least once a day and do much of my writing during my lunch breaks.

I know; if they made up commercials to get people to be writers, it'd be something like: "Hey kids--wanna have no social life, walk around perpetually frustrated, and make no money? Well then, be a professional writer!" with an announcer speaking in one of those cheerful, demonic, commanding announcer voices.

[QUOTE--Miss Vicky] BTW - don't worry, I don't get offended very easily and you didn't come off as being preachy or anything.

I'm glad. I was afraid I sounded like I think I'm your mom or something. (Now, Victoria, read good books, and always wear clean underwear in case you get in an accident, and call your grandmother once a week, and don't write in poor light or you'll strain your eyes. ;) )

bushesandbriars

05-26-2005, 04:21 PM

More like through the most convoluted and meaningless (yet fun) arguments you've ever seen in your life. Which go on forever. So, with the meaninglessness, and the going on foreverness, it's a bit like both sh** and the river styx. :wavey:

Hey, sounds good to me. :wavey:

amber

05-26-2005, 04:27 PM

I know - we would act it out and I was, of course, VERA :eek: :laugh:

My mom had eye surgery yesterday - nothing big - just cataracts and she goes in again next week for the other eye. At her age 49 (translation very late 70's) it is scary anytime something has to be done. But, she handled it like a trooper and was heard opining yesterday "Well that was easy, it was getting up at 6:00 and going in public with putting on my face that was tough" :eek: :laugh:
:laugh: :lol: :laugh: That's more hilarious now that I can imagine the accent. Glad to hear she is ok! My own mum refuses to go to doctors... :shocked:

amber

05-26-2005, 04:28 PM

Hey, sounds good to me. :wavey:
Oh, it's vereh, vereh goo-oood. Just close your eyes softly, till you become that part of the argument, that you've always longed for.
Welcome, BTW. ;) :wavey:

bushesandbriars

05-26-2005, 04:30 PM

I must say I am thrououghly enjoying you all's literary discussion. I am not a big fan of Joyce, but clearly recognize he was a HUGE talent :cool: I would like one day to write a book. It would be about my life as I have mother very much like Auntie Mame and trust me when I say I LIVED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm not a massive Joyce fan either, but his innovations were so important, and to have someone--a brother, no less--totally miss what you were after is just--that's cold. And Joyce was very hurt by that letter; lost faith for awhile and everything. I don't know if he actually quit writing, but by all accounts he kinda went, Okay, what am I doing here? It hurts to be told you suck, no matter who you are, obviously.

And you can only write about your Auntie Mame mother if you swear to me you will turn it into a Broadway musical one day, and include a song about the flat tax and religious theocracy. :nod:

Kidding aside, follow your muse. You know if you've got the stuff. Mame for a mom sounds pretty damn funny to me.

strandinthewind

05-26-2005, 04:42 PM

bushesandbriars

05-26-2005, 04:43 PM

I just read that back-to-back with Orwell's 1984 a couple of months ago; it's positively chilling. Our country has been bordering on a theocracy for years now, it's all been gaining momentum since Reagan was elected. It'll get much, much worse before it gets better.

I know. Reagan? Worst. President. Ever. And we have had some doozies. And it scares me to think where we'll be if we don't turn around and try to find the meaning of this country again.

1984 is another one of those all-time-great-books-to-make-your-children-dog-and-self-insane-with. And, of course, Brave New World. There's this cheerful insanity thing that Huxley works that makes me get all, "Okay, now I have to read some Bridget Jones or something to stop the unpleasant world-ending-any-second sensation I have." Paula Vogel does that to me, too, and Beckett--make me literally feel fear. It's amazing writing, but depressing as f***.

bushesandbriars

05-26-2005, 04:48 PM

sung to a big band Glenn Miller "In the Mood" type of riff:

Oooooh - There';s gonna be a flat tax
FLAT TAX TAX TAX
Ooooohhh the poooorrr
its a gonna brak their BACKS
THEIR BACKS THEIR BACKS
pooorrrrrr steel works
who needs um
I do
Hogwash - there's always a sweat shop in the East
THE EAST THE EAST

____________________________

Lord Child - my juices is a flowin' :eek:

:laugh: . It's a damn shame Ella Fitzgerald--ooh, or Sarah Vaughn-- isn't still alive--she could break off in the middle and do a big scat thing--SHOOP BOP A DO YOU BOP A DOO WOO BOP A DEE DOW, ZEEM BOP A DEE WOW--while a zillion dancers dressed in rags with their pockets turned out shuffle dejectedly behind her. You'd have a massive hit. Especially if you could get Hugh Jackman to play somebody. :nod:

bushesandbriars

05-26-2005, 04:51 PM

Oh, it's vereh, vereh goo-oood. Just close your eyes softly, till you become that part of the argument, that you've always longed for.
Welcome, BTW. ;) :wavey:

Which part of the argument? The one we all long for, sometimes? Like a ghost through a fog? A charmed hour? And a haunted song? Well, I'll do my best. ;)

Okay, I'll stop now 'cuz I can see this getting cheesier and cheesier on my end.

And thanks for the welcome. :wavey:

cliffdweller

05-26-2005, 04:52 PM

That's one of those things where you have to make your own mind up and consider the source. James Joyce's brother, Stanislaus, told him that Ulysses was obviously the product of an infantile mind, and that he was ruining literature.

Oh but it was the product of an infantile mind! That's not to say that the work itself isn't genius...it is. But Joyce had some serious issues, mostly Freudian and mostly disturbing. Have you ever read, "Letters to Nora?" Yikes...makes my skin crawl.

bushesandbriars

05-26-2005, 05:03 PM

Oh but it was the product of an infantile mind! That's not to say that the work itself isn't genius...it is. But Joyce had some serious issues, mostly Freudian and mostly disturbing. Have you ever read, "Letters to Nora?" Yikes...makes my skin crawl.

I never have read it, and yeah, a lot of his stuff creeps me out a bit, too. But I do respect his whole "experiment with the language" thing. I find the cannibalizing of Nora a little off myself, and I can't sit here and say I've ever had the energy--or desire, frankly--to read his whole canon. I'm not into Freud, either, though God knows he crops up enough, and a number of writers I take seriously--A.S. Byatt and Maria Tatar leap to mind--do take him seriously, Byatt more than Tatar, I think.

My point was just that the interpretation depends largely on the state of mind of the reader, and if they don't understand what you're after in terms of technique, then you have to consider whether that means anything or simply stems from their misunderstanding. Stanislaus didn't really mean--at least from my understanding; I may be wrong, please tell me if I am--anything about the issues when he called it infantile so much as the running on and on, and messing about with language. And the, erm, scatalogical elements, which I also find, to use a techical term, icky. But I know Joyce was breaking taboos, etc., so I guess getting it isn't necessarily the same as being into it.

But that said--I dig ya. :nod:

strandinthewind

05-26-2005, 05:03 PM

. . . Especially if you could get Hugh Jackman to play somebody. :nod:

He's play the younger son of the billionaire who has a heart and also plays soccer, therefore the obligatory shower scene :eek:

strandinthewind

05-26-2005, 05:06 PM

OKAY - this has NOTHING to do with this thread, but I think the cowd in here will like it:

http://www.thesuperficial.com/archives/000920.html

the caption reads:

"Jennifer Lopez shocked fans … this weekend when she wore a T-shirt bearing the words "**** It!". The diva stunned concert organizers with the crass slogan on a black cropped-top at the eighth annual Wango Tango pop festival in California on Saturday."

J.Lo’s charming contempt for the parents who paid for their 12 year old girls to make up the audience at Wango Tango is obviously delightful, but it doesn’t quite explain the rest of this outfit. Or why she’s sweatin like an Alabama mule. And there’s a homeless woman down the street from me who has an artificial eye that’s actually just a ping-pong ball that she drew on with a sharpie, and I’ve seen her eat a cigarette off the ground and chase a cat - probably for dinner - but I’ve never seen her go out with her hair looking as bad as that mystery on top of J.Los head. Never hire a beaver as a hairstylist, I don't care how charming he is during the interview.

OMG - I fell on the floor laughing at that when a friend sent it to me :eek:

bushesandbriars

05-26-2005, 05:08 PM

therefore the obligatory shower scene :eek

All righty, then--how soon can you be done writing so we can get into production? :laugh: Also, I don't suppose we could bring back the white pants he shook his boot-ay in for "I Go to Rio," could we? Pretty please? (bats eyelashes). Oh, and a shirtless scene, which I feel would add greatly to the artistic message of the piece, as well as his range as an actor. I swear I won't ask for any more creative concessions. :angel:

amber

05-26-2005, 05:11 PM

I know. Reagan? Worst. President. Ever.
I just had to pause and respond since you just used my mantra... :laugh:

strandinthewind

05-26-2005, 05:11 PM

All righty, then--how soon can you be done writing so we can get into production? :laugh: Also, I don't suppose we could bring back the white pants he shook his boot-ay in for "I Go to Rio," could we? Pretty please? (bats eyelashes). Oh, and a shirtless scene, which I feel would add greatly to the artistic message of the piece, as well as his range as an actor. I swear I won't ask for any more creative concessions. :angel:

I was at that show when he auctioned his sweaty tight black t-shirt to the audience for Equity Cares. Well, it came down to the group of middle aged house wives from like Topeka who apparently had had too much wine at intermission vesus the gaggle of mad queens who were loaded when they walked in. I think the shirt went for like $5,000 or something like that. Well, he then turns to the queens and says something like "if you'll match you last offer, I'll get another one sweaty for you" :eek:

amber

05-26-2005, 05:12 PM

bushesandbriars

05-26-2005, 05:20 PM

I just had to pause and respond since you just used my mantra... :laugh:

It's probably a brain wave-thing. :wavey: That, or being alive in the Eighties.

bushesandbriars

05-26-2005, 05:22 PM

I was at that show when he auctioned his sweaty tight black t-shirt to the audience for Equity Cares. Well, it came down to the group of middle aged house wives from like Topeka who apparently had had too much wine at intermission vesus the gaggle of mad queens who were loaded when they walked in. I think the shirt went for like $5,000 or something like that. Well, he then turns to the queens and says something like "if you'll match you last offer, I'll get another one sweaty for you" :eek:

Why doesn't my daily life ever involve sweaty Australians auctioning off their clothing? :laugh:

amber

05-26-2005, 05:25 PM

Why doesn't my daily life ever involve sweaty Australians auctioning off their clothing? :laugh:
Ah, yes, the age old question. :distress:

strandinthewind

05-26-2005, 05:26 PM

Why doesn't my daily life ever involve sweaty Australians auctioning off their clothing? :laugh:

I wear they just do not make any not good looking people down there :nod:

dissention

05-26-2005, 06:08 PM

I know. Reagan? Worst. President. Ever. And we have had some doozies. And it scares me to think where we'll be if we don't turn around and try to find the meaning of this country again.

1984 is another one of those all-time-great-books-to-make-your-children-dog-and-self-insane-with. And, of course, Brave New World. There's this cheerful insanity thing that Huxley works that makes me get all, "Okay, now I have to read some Bridget Jones or something to stop the unpleasant world-ending-any-second sensation I have." Paula Vogel does that to me, too, and Beckett--make me literally feel fear. It's amazing writing, but depressing as f***.

Oh.My.Word. You are fabulous. 1984 is one of those books that you pick up and simply can't put down, then you pull it out every few months or so and flip through it again, only to notice the parallels to the government today are stronger than ever. It's maddening.

Reagan is the one to blame for the rise of the neocons. He ushered them all in. I think I puked for a week straight when he died and the media couldn't masturbate enough over him.

And is that *gulp* Nicole Kidman in your avatar?

bushesandbriars

05-26-2005, 09:17 PM

Oh.My.Word. You are fabulous.

You ain't so bad yourself, kid. ;)

1984 is one of those books that you pick up and simply can't put down, then you pull it out every few months or so and flip through it again, only to notice the parallels to the government today are stronger than ever. It's maddening.

That book makes me suicidal, and I wish I was kidding. There's something about the way that book ends that is just so--for lack of a better word--final. Massive carnage and death would be cheerier. But enough of that.

Reagan is the one to blame for the rise of the neocons. He ushered them all in. I think I puked for a week straight when he died and the media couldn't masturbate enough over him.

I know. I was all, "I'm not even gonna turn on !@#%^&$# television set, or pick up a !#%*)%^ newspaper, because I'm gonna be one pissed off broad the instant I do." I had calluses in my ears from sticking my fingers in them every time I heard his bloody name.

And is that *gulp* Nicole Kidman in your avatar

It was, actually, but I pulled that one 'cuz I found a fab Kate one, and I was having a Kate moment. But Nic is God, for anyone who missed it, and she'll be back, because I adore her work and I think she's an amazing visual presence. Naomi Watts, too, but I can't find her anywhere in a small-enough icon.

bushesandbriars

05-26-2005, 09:20 PM

Ah, yes, the age old question. :distress:

I think we should have a committe, don't you? To investigate the seriousness of the issue and all, because it appears to be rampant, and as far as I can tell, Congress is doing absolutely nothing about it. :nod: I mean, not only have I never once been in this situation, but I know virtually no one else who has, either, and I think it's just terrible. ;)

bushesandbriars

05-26-2005, 09:22 PM

I wear they just do not make any not good looking people down there :nod:

They certainly don't seem to. New Zealand either. Maybe it's the flight distance; keeps the population hale or something. :laugh:

dissention

05-26-2005, 09:30 PM

You ain't so bad yourself, kid. ;)

Why, thank you. ;)

That book makes me suicidal, and I wish I was kidding. There's something about the way that book ends that is just so--for lack of a better word--final. Massive carnage and death would be cheerier. But enough of that.

Tell me about it. I read it again immediately after The Handmaid's Tale and was ready to seek out some Prozac. I love Animal Farm, but 1984 has to be his masterpiece. It's been one of my favorites since I read it in high school.

I know. I was all, "I'm not even gonna turn on !@#%^&$# television set, or pick up a !#%*)%^ newspaper, because I'm gonna be one pissed off broad the instant I do." I had calluses in my ears from sticking my fingers in them every time I heard his bloody name.

:laugh:

I loved how Nancy snubbed the Bush's at the RNC, though, and the Repugs had to deal with Ron Reagan Jr. speaking at the DNC and getting a prime gig on Faux News-lite MSNBC. My favorite was how the talking heads on TV touted Reagan as the most popular president, yet failed to mention that even Clinton had higher job approval ratings when he left office.

It was, actually, but I pulled that one 'cuz I found a fab Kate one, and I was having a Kate moment. But Nic is God, for anyone who missed it, and she'll be back, because I adore her work and I think she's an amazing visual presence. Naomi Watts, too, but I can't find her anywhere in a small-enough icon.

I? Am a whore for Nicole. Me and Krista (GypsySorcerer) are huge fans. I would watch her brush her bloody teeth. I'm even going to brave the horror that is Will Ferrell to see her in Bewitched. That is serious devotion. :laugh:

And I'm still pissed she didn't win a second Oscar for Dogville.

bushesandbriars

05-26-2005, 09:49 PM

Why, thank you. ;)

Tell me about it. I read it again immediately after The Handmaid's Tale and was ready to seek out some Prozac. I love Animal Farm, but 1984 has to be his masterpiece. It's been one of my favorites since I read it in high school.

You know, I didn't even think about Animal Farm, but we did it in one of my English classes, and I had to do this big presentation, and my presentation ended up being parallels between the various lead animals and the Allies. And it was chilling, how much I had at the end. The central metaphor of that book is astonishing, but yeah, 1984 is just a damn fine book, human and scary and prophetic. Orwell is very, very smart without being too heavy-handed, which is great. Ditto Handmaid's Tale; Atwood makes things so personal and intimate that you don't ever feel like you're being politically bludgeoned. Have you ever read Bodily Harm by her? That's another one where the end is just chilling, and everyone is very flawed, and it's very dark. You don't always agree with every single word, but I found it really visceral and effective.

You know, you rock. I don't know any guys who read Atwood at all, so it's cool to find one who does.

:laugh:

I loved how Nancy snubbed the Bush's at the RNC, though, and the Repugs had to deal with Ron Reagan Jr. speaking at the DNC and getting a prime gig on Faux News-lite MSNBC. My favorite was how the talking heads on TV touted Reagan as the most popular president, yet failed to mention that even Clinton had higher job approval ratings when he left office.

I know; I was all nyah-nyah about the RNC and Ronnie was just--Ronnie, you have redeemed yourself. And don't get me started about that Dan Abrams guy on MSN-NBC; I'm always like, is this guy for real, or is he a very smug robot?

I? Am a whore for Nicole. Me and Krista (GypsySorcerer) are huge fans. I would watch her brush her bloody teeth. I'm even going to brave the horror that is Will Ferrell to see her in Bewitched. That is serious devotion. :laugh:

:nod: I know, I wanna see it, too, and I didn't even like the original. And I haven't seen Dogville yet, but I want to do that, too. If she decided to do an indie flick with artsy camera work of herself reading the Manhattan phone book, I'd still be all, "The way she read those Z-names was just beautiful, wasn't it?" while those around me gag.

GypsySorcerer

05-26-2005, 10:02 PM

I wondered how this thread had grown so long.......politics, literature, and Nicole Kidman. :D :]

GypsySorcerer

05-26-2005, 10:05 PM

You know, you rock. I don't know any guys who read Atwood at all, so it's cool to find one who does.

Not a guy, but I enjoy Atwood. She is fab, and just as strong of an essayist as she is a fiction writer. :nod:

:nod: I know, I wanna see it, too, and I didn't even like the original. And I haven't seen Dogville yet, but I want to do that, too. If she decided to do an indie flick with artsy camera work of herself reading the Manhattan phone book, I'd still be all, "The way she read those Z-names was just beautiful, wasn't it?" while those around me gag.

Another member of the Nicole Fan Club on the Ledge. :xoxo:

bushesandbriars

05-26-2005, 10:06 PM

I wondered how this thread had grown so long.......politics, literature, and Nicole Kidman. :D :]

Nah, it's just 'cuz I'm extra, extra special. :nod:

I love that pic of Marilyn in your sig, BTW. She was so beautiful, and her performance in The Misfits is heartbreaking.

And anyone who likes Atwood is fine by me. And you're right about her essays; she's not at all pretentious, but her opinions are really strong and empathetic without being all chicken-soup-y.

And Nic rocks. If you like her, and Atwood, and Stevie, and Marilyn, why then, you must rock, too. :wavey:

dissention

05-26-2005, 10:08 PM

You know, I didn't even think about Animal Farm, but we did it in one of my English classes, and I had to do this big presentation, and my presentation ended up being parallels between the various lead animals and the Allies. And it was chilling, how much I had at the end. The central metaphor of that book is astonishing, but yeah, 1984 is just a damn fine book, human and scary and prophetic. Orwell is very, very smart without being too heavy-handed, which is great. Ditto Handmaid's Tale; Atwood makes things so personal and intimate that you don't ever feel like you're being politically bludgeoned. Have you ever read Bodily Harm by her? That's another one where the end is just chilling, and everyone is very flawed, and it's very dark. You don't always agree with every single word, but I found it really visceral and effective.

You know, you rock. I don't know any guys who read Atwood at all, so it's cool to find one who does.

No, I've never read that one. To be honest, other than The Handmaid's Tale, I don't really like her novels. I love her poetry, but some of her novels leave me underwhelmed. I'll have to add that one to my ever-growing summer reading list, though. :laugh: I'm re-reading Saul Bellow's Henderson the Rain King right now (and trying to finish Jane Fonda's autobio), which is my all-time favorite book. It's beautiful, definitely the best thing he ever wrote and he's written some masterpieces. I was on a big kick with the novellas he wrote during the latter half of his career about a month ago and the fact that he could write such amazing things in such a short form was just fabulous to me.

I know; I was all nyah-nyah about the RNC and Ronnie was just--Ronnie, you have redeemed yourself. And don't get me started about that Dan Abrams guy on MSN-NBC; I'm always like, is this guy for real, or is he a very smug robot?

:eek: Dan Abrams is one of the biggest clowns on that network, right alongside F*cker Carlson (you guys actually dropped Norville for F*cker Carlson???), Scarborough (who may have possibly murdered one of his staff members while in Congress), and Randy Meyers (lay off the Crest Whitestrips and stop licking Republican ass).

:nod: I know, I wanna see it, too, and I didn't even like the original. And I haven't seen Dogville yet, but I want to do that, too. If she decided to do an indie flick with artsy camera work of herself reading the Manhattan phone book, I'd still be all, "The way she read those Z-names was just beautiful, wasn't it?" while those around me gag.

:laugh: I worship her, seriously. Meryl who? :laugh: I love that she's a big enough star that she can do a big Hollywood flick and then go make small indies without batting an eyelash. Her new indie biopic "Fur" (about Diane Arbus) is the one I'm really looking forward to.

Dogville won't disappoint. It's one of my favorite movies and the acting from everyone involved is superb. I've seen it a million times and the ending still shocks me every time; it's so brutal. If you see it on DVD, make sure you listen to the commentary from Lars Von Trier. The movie's three hours, but the commentary is fantastic. Lots of juicy bits about the filming, the performances, etc. :thumbsup:

ontheEdgeof17

05-26-2005, 10:08 PM

Another member of the Nicole Fan Club on the Ledge. :xoxo:

.....at a point when we need more Pop music fans than Nicole fans. :cool: :D

GypsySorcerer

05-26-2005, 10:10 PM

Nah, it's just 'cuz I'm extra, extra special. :nod:

I love that pic of Marilyn in your sig, BTW. She was so beautiful, and her performance in The Misfits is heartbreaking.

Thank you. :) I am a HUGE fan. I watched The Misfts a few night ago and I think it was by far her best performance.

GardenStateGirlie

05-26-2005, 10:10 PM

Welcome to the ledge! :wavey:

dissention

05-26-2005, 10:11 PM

.....at a point when we need more Pop music fans than Nicole fans. :cool: :D

Have you heard her song with Robbie Williams? What a guilty pleasure that one is. And the video is so hot. :laugh:

GypsySorcerer

05-26-2005, 10:14 PM

.....at a point when we need more Pop music fans than Nicole fans. :cool: :D

Don't make me come to WV. I could be there in four hours, you know. :laugh: :wavey:

Johnny Stew

05-26-2005, 10:16 PM

Dan Abrams is one of the biggest clowns on that network....But he's so friggin' cute, damnit! :o :laugh:

Johnny Stew

05-26-2005, 10:17 PM

Have you heard her song with Robbie Williams? What a guilty pleasure that one is. And the video is so hot. :laugh:I've always loved that song ("Something Stupid"). Nic and Robbie did a cool version of it, definitely.
Doesn't top Frank and Nancy's original though... of course... but it was still great. :nod:

ontheEdgeof17

05-26-2005, 10:17 PM

Don't make me come to WV. I could be there in four hours, you know. :laugh: :wavey:

Oh, but I'm at my parent's house until tomorrow afternoon. That's only two hours from me.

Bring. it. on.

bushesandbriars

05-26-2005, 10:21 PM

No, I've never read that one. To be honest, other than The Handmaid's Tale, I don't really like her novels. I love her poetry, but some of her novels leave me underwhelmed. I'll have to add that one to my ever-growing summer reading list, though. :laugh: I'm re-reading Saul Bellow's Henderson the Rain King right now (and trying to finish Jane Fonda's autobio), which is my all-time favorite book. It's beautiful, definitely the best thing he ever wrote and he's written some masterpieces. I was on a big kick with the novellas he wrote during the latter half of his career about a month ago and the fact that he could write such amazing things in such a short form was just fabulous to me.

I'll admit to total Bellow ignorance; I always mean to read him and never do, though I know Henderson has all these Golden Bough references in it, and I always mean to check it just for that. :sorry:

And not all of Atwood's novel's work for me, either; I didn't like The Robber Bride because I found it too predictable and--I don't know, shrill or flat or both. And I could not get through Alias Grace. Haven't attempted Oryx and Crake yet. But when she's good, she's very, very good.

:eek: Dan Abrams is one of the biggest clowns on that network

Amen. And I seriously do not watch enough of that network to even know some of those people, because it makes me rent my garments and gnash my teeth. But I saw Carlson on dumbed-down Celebrity Jeopardy! and I was like, Is this person legitimately a newscaster?

:laugh: I worship her, seriously. Meryl who? :laugh: I love that she's a big enough star that she can do a big Hollywood flick and then go make small indies without batting an eyelash. Her new indie biopic "Fur" (about Diane Arbus) is the one I'm really looking forward to.

Again, ditto, and I will take your advice about Dogville. I love it when they talk about something besides sets and catering.

GateandGarden

05-26-2005, 10:25 PM

Paula Vogel does that to me, too...Ooooh, I wish I'd seen this earlier. I just wanted to say that I love Paula Vogel. She blows me away every time I read something or see it performed. She's so unique.

bushesandbriars

05-26-2005, 10:28 PM

Thank you. :) I am a HUGE fan. I watched The Misfts a few night ago and I think it was by far her best performance.

Her performance in that movie is beautiful and profound, and that sounds all pretentious, but I mean it. She was damn funny--Some Lke It Hot is a testament to that; it would have just been another sex comedy/buddy comedy without her--but I'm always so sorry that she didn't get to do the dramatic things she wanted to do, because she would have been amazing, and maybe it would have been a little cathartic for her by making her feel she was a serious, respected actress.

GateandGarden

05-26-2005, 10:29 PM

That book makes me suicidal, and I wish I was kidding. There's something about the way that book ends that is just so--for lack of a better word--final. Massive carnage and death would be cheerier. But enough of that.I'm with you. That book just about kills me. Granted, I haven't read it since high school and I've been out of high school for four years now, but it still haunts me. And there was definitely something about Winston and Julia. I was never so involved with a romance or a relationship between two people in a general sense in a novel until I read about those two. It tore me apart to read about the two of them being torn apart. I remember that I had to read it for class and all my classmates hated the book. It was the same thing in ninth grade when we all had to read Animal Farm, which I love.

bushesandbriars

05-26-2005, 10:32 PM

Ooooh, I wish I'd seen this earlier. I just wanted to say that I love Paula Vogel. She blows me away every time I read something or see it performed. She's so unique.

We keep just missing each other, I think, or really, I keep missing you!

And Baby Makes Seven makes me want to cry and vomit and laugh and every time I read it. She's astonishing, and I think it's completely awesome you like her. :nod: And the one with the ageing hookers who start to die off, one by one; I can't think of the title. That play is so moving and funny. And do not get me going on Baltimore Waltz.

bushesandbriars

05-26-2005, 10:36 PM

I'm with you. That book just about kills me. Granted, I haven't read it since high school and I've been out of high school for four years now, but it still haunts me. And there was definitely something about Winston and Julia. I was never so involved with a romance or a relationship between two people in a general sense in a novel until I read about those two. It tore me apart to read about the two of them being torn apart. I remember that I had to read it for class and all my classmates hated the book. It was the same thing in ninth grade when we all had to read Animal Farm, which I love.

The thing is, Orwell is so subtle and smart about it, and it's so much better than other writers who do all this: Oh, the pain! The pain! kind of thing. Just a few chlling moments and gestures, Julia and Winston are done in.

You know, I don't know if you've ever read Wicked by Gregory Maguire, but I always feel like that about the love affair between Elphaba and Fiyero. It's beautiful and moving and the way it ends up just KILLED me.

dissention

05-26-2005, 10:37 PM

But he's so friggin' cute, damnit! :o :laugh:

Yuck. We agree when it comes to Hayden, but Abrams is blech. Dumbo ears and a cocky grin do not a cute guy make.

GypsySorcerer

05-26-2005, 10:40 PM

Her performance in that movie is beautiful and profound, and that sounds all pretentious, but I mean it. She was damn funny--Some Lke It Hot is a testament to that; it would have just been another sex comedy/buddy comedy without her--but I'm always so sorry that she didn't get to do the dramatic things she wanted to do, because she would have been amazing, and maybe it would have been a little cathartic for her by making her feel she was a serious, respected actress.

I think she was indeed a gifted comedienne. :nod:

Did you ever see Don't Bother to Knock? It was another good dramatic performance from her.

bushesandbriars

05-26-2005, 10:40 PM

Welcome to the ledge! :wavey:

Thanks! :wavey:

dissention

05-26-2005, 10:42 PM

I've always loved that song ("Something Stupid"). Nic and Robbie did a cool version of it, definitely.
Doesn't top Frank and Nancy's original though... of course... but it was still great. :nod:

I never liked the original because I just can't stand Frank Sinatra. :sorry: The video to the Nicole/Robbie version is fabulous, though. He's trying to get her into bondage, so he gives her a riding crop on Christmas, and they retire upstairs to undress and use it. :laugh:

bushesandbriars

05-26-2005, 10:44 PM

I think she was indeed a gifted comedienne. :nod:

Did you ever see Don't Bother to Knock? It was another good dramatic performance from her.

I have, and it was very good. Richard Widmark made a better foil for her than a lot of her later leading men, IMO. I think Niagra was a good performance, too, because when she's being chased into that bell tower, you feel her terror. :nod: But DBTK is probably better; she has more to do.

Johnny Stew

05-26-2005, 10:47 PM

I never liked the original because I just can't stand Frank Sinatra. :sorry:There were only two celebrities my grandmother didn't care for... Frank Sinatra and Eartha Kitt.
And she didn't just dislike them -- she vehemently disliked them.

I could take or leave Ol' Blue Eyes, but I love me some Eartha Kitt. :D

The video to the Nicole/Robbie version is fabulous, though. He's trying to get her into bondage, so he gives her a riding crop on Christmas, and they retire upstairs to undress and use it. :laugh:How did I miss that vid?!?
I would've liked to have seen it.

dissention

05-26-2005, 10:49 PM

I'll admit to total Bellow ignorance; I always mean to read him and never do, though I know Henderson has all these Golden Bough references in it, and I always mean to check it just for that. :sorry:

You should try him, you'll probably like him. I suggest starting with the novellas because he's an acquired taste and you'll be able to tell right away if you want to delve any further into his work. Henderson the Rain King is his true masterpiece.

And not all of Atwood's novel's work for me, either; I didn't like The Robber Bride because I found it too predictable and--I don't know, shrill or flat or both. And I could not get through Alias Grace. Haven't attempted Oryx and Crake yet. But when she's good, she's very, very good.

I think Amber recommended The Robber Bride, but I'm not sure. Regardless, she's one of the best writers out there. Her poetry knocks my socks off.

Amen. And I seriously do not watch enough of that network to even know some of those people, because it makes me rent my garments and gnash my teeth. But I saw Carlson on dumbed-down Celebrity Jeopardy! and I was like, Is this person legitimately a newscaster?

Did you see when Jon Stewart went on CNN's Crossfire and laid the smackdown on Carlson? Oh my, that was one priceless television moment. Stewart even called him a "dick." :laugh:

Again, ditto, and I will take your advice about Dogville. I love it when they talk about something besides sets and catering.

Dogville is the first part of Von Trier's USA Trilogy, but Kidman couldn't fit the second one into her scedule, so they replaced her with Ron Howard's daughter. Now Von Trier is saying that for the final installment, he's going to have both Kidman and Howard back. I can't wait. :D Let me know when you see it, I love to gush over that movie.

dissention

05-26-2005, 10:52 PM

There were only two celebrities my grandmother didn't care for... Frank Sinatra and Eartha Kitt.
And she didn't just dislike them -- she vehemently disliked them.

I could take or leave Ol' Blue Eyes, but I love me some Eartha Kitt. :D

I LOVE EARTHA. She has a set of brass balls and I dig it. Anyone who has the gall to go to the White House and chastize Lady Bird Johnson is fabulous in my book.

How did I miss that vid?!?
I would've liked to have seen it.

If you rent her movie "Birthday Girl," it's on it as a special feature. And it's a pretty decent movie. It's on his live DVD, too, from a few years back. I might be able to find it online, but you're on dial-up, so it might kill you to download. :laugh:

bushesandbriars

05-26-2005, 10:59 PM

You should try him, you'll probably like him. I suggest starting with the novellas because he's an acquired taste and you'll be able to tell right away if you want to delve any further into his work. Henderson the Rain King is his true masterpiece.

I will, and when I do I'll let you know what I think--any particular starting point in the novellas?

The Robber Bride[/I], but I'm not sure. Regardless, she's one of the best writers out there. Her poetry knocks my socks off.

Her Circe/Mud poems are especially brilliant, I think, extra complex, because the voice goes back and forth. I still think it rocks you've read her and like her poems at least. Which of the poems do you favor, just out of curiosity? And do you find it weird how rarely her poems are anthologized?

Did you see when Jon Stewart went on CNN's Crossfire and laid the smackdown on Carlson? Oh my, that was one priceless television moment. Stewart even called him a "dick." :laugh:

Nope, missed that one. But Jon Stewart has his moments; I used to like his MTV show. Which aired for maybe two episodes.

Let me know when you see it, I love to gush over that movie.

I sure will. That way we can be all Nicole-gushy together and make everyone ill with our agreeableness and mushy fan behavior. ;)

GypsySorcerer

05-26-2005, 11:01 PM

I have, and it was very good. Richard Widmark made a better foil for her than a lot of her later leading men, IMO. I think Niagra was a good performance, too, because when she's being chased into that bell tower, you feel her terror. :nod: But DBTK is probably better; she has more to do.

ITA about Widmark. Don Murray, Lawrence Olivier, Yves Montand.....no chemistry. Zilch.

Niagara is an enjoyable flick. When she arrives at the lawn party in that red dress.......Yowza. :blob2:

bushesandbriars

05-26-2005, 11:03 PM

How did I miss that vid?!?
I would've liked to have seen it.

If you go to Nicole's Magic, which is where I got my Nic icons, and go into multimedia, I'm pretty sure you can download it. The URL is nkidman.com :wavey:.

bushesandbriars

05-26-2005, 11:09 PM

ITA about Widmark. Don Murray, Lawrence Olivier, Yves Montand.....no chemistry. Zilch.

They make her seem too--I don't know; she was so beautiful and feminine, and they were so--stiff, or something; they make her seem exaggerated, to me. And Donald O'Connor in There's No Business Like Show Business is just absurd; he looks twelve, so she ends up looking like his mother. I think it would've been cool if she had been able to play a romantic lead opposite Monty Clift, because they had good chemistry. Very tender. And it would have been awesome if she had gotten to play opposite Paul Newman or Gregory Peck or some man as good-looking as she was.

Niagara is an enjoyable flick. When she arrives at the lawn party in that red dress.......Yowza. :blob2:

And when she sings--look out!

dissention

05-26-2005, 11:11 PM

I will, and when I do I'll let you know what I think--any particular starting point in the novellas?

My personal favorite is The Actual, but he has a collection of three novellas called Something To Remember Me By that's really good, too.

Her Circe/Mud poems are especially brilliant, I think, extra complex, because the voice goes back and forth. I still think it rocks you've read her and like her poems at least. Which of the poems do you favor, just out of curiosity? And do you find it weird how rarely her poems are anthologized?

I like her early sixties ones the best, but my favorite has to be Against Still Life. That one is her best, bar none, in my opinion. Especially the lines:

your silence
isn't enough for me
now, no matter with what
contentment you fold
your hands together; i want
anything you can say
in the sunlight

I never really put much thought into her poems not being anthologized, to be honest. I do know that I love 'em, though. :laugh:

I sure will. That way we can be all Nicole-gushy together and make everyone ill with our agreeableness and mushy fan behavior. ;)

I look forward to it. :D

GateandGarden

05-26-2005, 11:12 PM

We keep just missing each other, I think, or really, I keep missing you!

And Baby Makes Seven makes me want to cry and vomit and laugh and every time I read it. She's astonishing, and I think it's completely awesome you like her. :nod: And the one with the ageing hookers who start to die off, one by one; I can't think of the title. That play is so moving and funny. And do not get me going on Baltimore Waltz.The one with the old women is The Oldest Profession. I can't think of any other author/playwright/writer of any kind who makes me laugh and cry so much at once. It was really confounding when I first read one of her plays. I just didn't know what to think but I loved her. The first one I read was How I Learned to Drive and I spent the entire play laughing but then thinking I shouldn't be laughing because really the situation was quite sad. :laugh: :o And I love And Baby Makes Seven, too. I think she calls it her "Scottish play," but it's really charming, I think. For me, the worst part is when Ruth (I think I remember it being Ruth) tells Peter how unfair it is that she and Anna can't have a baby naturally and in a way so that it would be theirs and a part of both of them. Even though I don't want to have kids, I could relate to the idea that she was so deeply in love with Anna that she would want them to share that, but tragically, they could not. It was really hard for me to take.

GypsySorcerer

05-26-2005, 11:13 PM

They make her seem too--I don't know; she was so beautiful and feminine, and they were so--stiff, or something; they make her seem exaggerated, to me. And Donald O'Connor in There's No Business Like Show Business is just absurd; he looks twelve, so she ends up looking like his mother. I think it would've been cool if she had been able to play a romantic lead opposite Monty Clift, because they had good chemistry. Very tender. And it would have been awesome if she had gotten to play opposite Paul Newman or Gregory Peck or some man as good-looking as she was.

And when she sings--look out!

TNBLSB is a crappy movie altogether, IMO, and may very well be my least favorite of hers. No wonder she didn't want to make it. :eek: River of No Return is pretty stinky too.

dissention

05-26-2005, 11:14 PM

If you go to Nicole's Magic, which is where I got my Nic icons, and go into multimedia, I'm pretty sure you can download it. The URL is nkidman.com :wavey:.

Unfortunately, it's down, just like Team Nicole (which got hacked into last year). :(

GateandGarden

05-26-2005, 11:14 PM

The thing is, Orwell is so subtle and smart about it, and it's so much better than other writers who do all this: Oh, the pain! The pain! kind of thing. Just a few chlling moments and gestures, Julia and Winston are done in.

You know, I don't know if you've ever read Wicked by Gregory Maguire, but I always feel like that about the love affair between Elphaba and Fiyero. It's beautiful and moving and the way it ends up just KILLED me.I never have read that, but I'll have to look into it now. I haven't read a book that gave me a punch in the stomach (much needed one I suppose) in the way that 1984 did in a long time, so I'll have to pick that up. Thank you. :)

GypsySorcerer

05-26-2005, 11:15 PM

Unfortunately, it's down, just like Team Nicole (which got hacked into last year). :(

Shit. I was actually going to change my avatar to a Nicole one.

dissention

05-26-2005, 11:17 PM

Shit. I was actually going to change my avatar to a Nicole one.

http://www.nicolekidmanunited.com/Avatars/
http://nicolekidmanunited.com/Avatars/nicole2.html
http://nicolekidmanunited.com/Avatars/nicole3.html
http://nicolekidmanunited.com/Avatars/nicole4.html
http://nicolekidmanunited.com/Avatars/nicole5.html
http://www.avatarity.com/category/150

:wavey:

I'm in need for a change, too, but I don't know what. As much as I adore him, I'm sick of looking at Jude Law's tongue.

bushesandbriars

05-26-2005, 11:20 PM

My personal favorite is The Actual, but he has a collection of three novellas called Something To Remember Me By that's really good, too.

Thanks. :wavey:

I like her early sixties ones the best, but my favorite has to be Against Still Life. That one is her best, bar none, in my opinion. Especially the lines:

your silence
isn't enough for me
now, no matter with what
contentment you fold
your hands together; i want
anything you can say
in the sunlight

I love that one, too. Her Susanna Moodie stuff is amazing, too, especially the one that ends, "I planted him in this country like a flag," in reference to her dead son.

I look forward to it. :D

Me too. ;)

GypsySorcerer

05-26-2005, 11:22 PM

http://www.nicolekidmanunited.com/Avatars/
http://nicolekidmanunited.com/Avatars/nicole2.html
http://nicolekidmanunited.com/Avatars/nicole3.html
http://nicolekidmanunited.com/Avatars/nicole4.html
http://nicolekidmanunited.com/Avatars/nicole5.html
http://www.avatarity.com/category/150

:wavey:

I'm in need for a change, too, but I don't know what. As much as I adore him, I'm sick of looking at Jude Law's tongue.

Thank you, dear. :wavey: She's so gorgeous in all of them. :woohoo:

bushesandbriars

05-26-2005, 11:23 PM

The one with the old women is The Oldest Profession. I can't think of any other author/playwright/writer of any kind who makes me laugh and cry so much at once. It was really confounding when I first read one of her plays. I just didn't know what to think but I loved her. The first one I read was How I Learned to Drive and I spent the entire play laughing but then thinking I shouldn't be laughing because really the situation was quite sad. :laugh: :o And I love And Baby Makes Seven, too. I think she calls it her "Scottish play," but it's really charming, I think. For me, the worst part is when Ruth (I think I remember it being Ruth) tells Peter how unfair it is that she and Anna can't have a baby naturally and in a way so that it would be theirs and a part of both of them. Even though I don't want to have kids, I could relate to the idea that she was so deeply in love with Anna that she would want them to share that, but tragically, they could not. It was really hard for me to take.

I totally agree with all of that, and the only thing I can possibly add is that even when you are sitting there thinking, You know, this freaks me out, she still has so much humanity and tenderness underlying her work, despite its toughness and the provocative subject matter, that you feel safe enough in some weird way to go there with her anyway. If that doesn't sound too blather-y of me. :laugh:

bushesandbriars

05-26-2005, 11:27 PM

TNBLSB is a crappy movie altogether, IMO, and may very well be my least favorite of hers. No wonder she didn't want to make it. :eek:

ITA. She started out fairly enthusiastic, or so I've read, then got there and it was a disaster, start to finish.

River of No Return is pretty stinky too.

Yes. And it's weird; Mitchum is such a manly-man, but you can tell they're both like, I'm under contract and have to make this movie. Though I do like her song at the end, and the one she sings to the little boy when they're at the cabin.

bushesandbriars

05-26-2005, 11:28 PM

Unfortunately, it's down, just like Team Nicole (which got hacked into last year). :(

But I went there today! I swear! :nod: No, seriously, I just got my icons, so at least some of it is up--oh, unless you meant the vid, in which case I'll just shut up now. ;)

GypsySorcerer

05-26-2005, 11:30 PM

Yes. And it's weird; Mitchum is such a manly-man, but you can tell they're both like, I'm under contract and have to make this movie. Though I do like her song at the end, and the one she sings to the little boy when they're at the cabin.

I love "Down in the Meadow." :nod:

I'm so glad there's another MM fan I can chat with. :wavey: I think I was driving Amber crazy. :laugh:

bushesandbriars

05-26-2005, 11:33 PM

I never have read that, but I'll have to look into it now. I haven't read a book that gave me a punch in the stomach (much needed one I suppose) in the way that 1984 did in a long time, so I'll have to pick that up. Thank you. :)

You're welcome; I hope you don't read and think it sucks. :laugh: It's about the life of the Wicked Witch of the West, in case you didn't know. Which you undoubtedly already did, but just in case you didn't, it's just a heads-up in case you don't care for mythic/fairy-tale things. It isn't really written as fantasy, but it is derived from L. Frank Baum's stuff. And it's a little slow to start, but if you stick with it, I think you'll dig it. I hope so, anyway. :wavey:

bushesandbriars

05-26-2005, 11:39 PM

I love "Down in the Meadow." :nod:

I can't remember the name of squat tonight! Thank you for that! And I think it would have been really cool for her to just get a little band together and sing some folk-y stuff; she had real talent as a singer, though her range wasn't huge or anything. She was a good phraser. One of the things I read about her said she was in the habit of finding songs she liked to sing and recording herself with a little tape recorder singing them, and one of those songs was "Like a Rolling Stone." If that's true it's awesome, and I'd love to hear all those demos!

I'm so glad there's another MM fan I can chat with. :wavey: I think I was driving Amber crazy. :laugh:

Me too. I'm having fun getting to chatter about MM with someone who doesn't think I'm a big dork for it! :wavey:

GypsySorcerer

05-26-2005, 11:44 PM

I can't remember the name of squat tonight! Thank you for that! And I think it would have been really cool for her to just get a little band together and sing some folk-y stuff; she had real talent as a singer, though her range wasn't huge or anything. She was a good phraser. One of the things I read about her said she was in the habit of finding songs she liked to sing and recording herself with a little tape recorder singing them, and one of those songs was "Like a Rolling Stone." If that's true it's awesome, and I'd love to hear all those demos!

Me too. I'm having fun getting to chatter about MM with someone who doesn't think I'm a big dork for it! :wavey:

I think she was a good singer, too. As you say, not a great range, but it was quite pleasant. :nod:

I'm a big classic movie buff, so anytime. :wavey:

bushesandbriars

05-26-2005, 11:46 PM

I'm a big classic movie buff, so anytime. :wavey:

Yay! :wavey:

strandinthewind

05-26-2005, 11:46 PM

. . . I'm a big classic movie buff, so anytime. :wavey:

Me too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :nod:

bushesandbriars

05-26-2005, 11:49 PM

Me too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :nod:

Double yay--I luuuuurrrvvveeee old movies! :nod:

GateandGarden

05-26-2005, 11:51 PM

I totally agree with all of that, and the only thing I can possibly add is that even when you are sitting there thinking, You know, this freaks me out, she still has so much humanity and tenderness underlying her work, despite its toughness and the provocative subject matter, that you feel safe enough in some weird way to go there with her anyway. If that doesn't sound too blather-y of me. :laugh:I couldn't agree more. :nod:

strandinthewind

05-26-2005, 11:55 PM

Double yay--I luuuuurrrvvveeee old movies! :nod:

My fav.'s are

Now Voyager - "I'm not afraid - Mother - I am not afraid"

Sunset Blvd. - "You there! Whay are you so late? Why have you kept me waiting?" and "I am big - Its the pictures that got small"

The Trouble With Angels - This is Sister ? - ART :mad:

and sooooooo many more.

Miss Vicky

05-27-2005, 01:02 AM

I'm glad. I was afraid I sounded like I think I'm your mom or something. (Now, Victoria, read good books, and always wear clean underwear in case you get in an accident, and call your grandmother once a week, and don't write in poor light or you'll strain your eyes. ;) )

My mother sounds nothing like that. When she does speak to me its usually something along the lines of "I want you to do (fill in the blank) today" or she complains about my father, or she bitches about my pets. ("Have your rats all died off yet?") Yeah... if only she nagged me about reading good books and keeping my workspace well lit. :laugh:

Anyway... do you have any of your own work that I might peruse?

krrrby

05-27-2005, 01:58 AM

Hey, I'm new here, though I've been lurking for quite some time. I really enjoy all the passion and intelligence I find on these forums, so I thought I'd bite the bullet and try posting.

I don't have any especially fascinating details about myself; I'm a student, a writer, and a reader, and I've been a Stevie/Mac fan since I was a kid and I first saw them on MTV. Their music has been pretty constant in my life ever since.

Anyway, enough of that--hi to all and great forum you got here!

Hi, I'm new to this too so thought I'd give my welcome wagon speech...
-ahem-

Welcome, Welcome!

:thumbsup:

Dark Angel

05-27-2005, 02:00 PM

I'm late...as usual. :lol: Justing saying 'hello'. :wavey:

amber

05-27-2005, 03:42 PM

I think Amber recommended The Robber Bride, but I'm not sure. Regardless, she's one of the best writers out there. Her poetry knocks my socks off.

Yes, I did, but remember, the one by her you guys were talking about originally, the name of which I'm having a brain fart on right now, is my least favorite. The subject matter is great, sylistically it leaves me very, very cold.
And, yes, Robber Bride is my favorite. It's so funny. But I just read another newer one by her. Pretty good, a bit vague. I've forgotten the name, so I can't recommend it. :laugh:

amber

05-27-2005, 03:50 PM

TNBLSB is a crappy movie altogether, IMO, and may very well be my least favorite of hers. No wonder she didn't want to make it. :eek: River of No Return is pretty stinky too.
TNBLSB has a couple of my favorite songs, though. I do a mean "heatwave" ;) :laugh:
I also like "languid"
Donald O'Connor should never play anyone's love interest. Ever. Never.
As you may or may not remember, River of No Return is the only one I haven't seen. By all accounts, it's just too crappy.
I can watch Niagra and SLIH over and over. Misfits - some parts are so sublime, and some parts really make me cringe...
And, of course, I can always watch All About Eve, but not so much for her... :laugh:

bushesandbriars

05-27-2005, 03:57 PM

My fav.'s are

Now Voyager - "I'm not afraid - Mother - I am not afraid"

Sunset Blvd. - "You there! Whay are you so late? Why have you kept me waiting?" and "I am big - Its the pictures that got small"

The Trouble With Angels - This is Sister ? - ART :mad:

and sooooooo many more.

The thing that kills me in Now, Voyager is the whole Paul Henreid with the cigarettes, where he lights two at once and hands one to her. Love that.

And The Trouble with Angels--love Hayley Mills, and Roz Russell. Have you ever seen His Girl Friday ? That's my fave of hers. :nod:

bushesandbriars

05-27-2005, 04:08 PM

My mother sounds nothing like that. When she does speak to me its usually something along the lines of "I want you to do (fill in the blank) today" or she complains about my father, or she bitches about my pets. ("Have your rats all died off yet?") Yeah... if only she nagged me about reading good books and keeping my workspace well lit. :laugh:

I'm not sure anyone's mother actually sounds like that, despite the rampant cliches. :laugh: June Cleaver, maybe, only hers would be in a reasonable, non-nagging tone. Her only apparent flaw, aside from being a total Stepford wife, of course, is cleaning in heels.

Anyway... do you have any of your own work that I might peruse?

I don't have anything posted, and I never keep anything I do unless I finish it, so nothing's done. And I very much doubt, even if were clever enough to figure out how to actually post it online, that anyone wants to read my half-finished scenes and outlines and notes. Even I don't want to read those! :laugh: But it's very kind of you to ask. :nod:

bushesandbriars

05-27-2005, 04:10 PM

Hi, I'm new to this too so thought I'd give my welcome wagon speech...
-ahem-

Welcome, Welcome!

:thumbsup:

Excellent speech. Nice and short. ;)

And thanks for the welcome, and welcome to you, too! :wavey:

bushesandbriars

05-27-2005, 04:11 PM

I'm late...as usual. :lol: Justing saying 'hello'. :wavey:

Thanks, and hi to you! :wavey:

strandinthewind

05-27-2005, 05:21 PM

The thing that kills me in Now, Voyager is the whole Paul Henreid with the cigarettes, where he lights two at once and hands one to her. Love that.

And The Trouble with Angels--love Hayley Mills, and Roz Russell. Have you ever seen His Girl Friday ? That's my fave of hers. :nod:

OMG -I LOVE HGF!!!!!

bushesandbriars

05-27-2005, 09:48 PM

OMG -I LOVE HGF!!!!!

The scene where Roz Russell runs and tackles that guy, and the bit where she and Cary Grant are locked in the newsroom and they're both rapid-firing dialogue on those old telephones--sheer genius. :nod:

krrrby

05-27-2005, 11:16 PM

Welcome, bushesandbriars!

Welcome, stevie4ever!

Welcome, johnny4406!

Welcome, ka10!

Welcome, krrrby!

We're glad to have you here! :wavey:

--Justin

I'm sure you've heard this, but I am laughing so hard everytime I see that picture FEED YOUR HEAD! :lol: :lol: :lol:

bushesandbriars

05-27-2005, 11:29 PM

[CENTER]Welcome, bushesandbriars!

We're glad to have you here! :wavey:

--Justin

Thanks much; glad to be here. And Grace Slick kicks some serious a**, especially in your sig :laugh: .

Miss Vicky

05-28-2005, 01:14 AM

I don't have anything posted, and I never keep anything I do unless I finish it, so nothing's done. And I very much doubt, even if were clever enough to figure out how to actually post it online, that anyone wants to read my half-finished scenes and outlines and notes. Even I don't want to read those! :laugh: But it's very kind of you to ask. :nod:

You sound just like my best friend who's been writing for a longer period of time than I have, and the bits and pieces of her work that I've read are EXCELLENT and put my piddling efforts to shame... but I've never read an entire story of hers because she's NEVER finished anything. :laugh: :distress:

On a side note - because of you I didn't get any damned work done on my novel during my lunch break today. :mad: :laugh: After your kind remarks about "Innocent and Unknowing" I found myself rereading it (which I haven't done in forever). However, instead of enjoying myself, I discovered ssoo many things that I <i>don't</i> like about the story. So rather than make good use of my lunch hour and get new material done, I started re-editing "Innocent." Ugh. It'll be another five years before I finish my novel at this rate.

bushesandbriars

05-28-2005, 02:58 PM

You sound just like my best friend who's been writing for a longer period of time than I have, and the bits and pieces of her work that I've read are EXCELLENT and put my piddling efforts to shame... but I've never read an entire story of hers because she's NEVER finished anything. :laugh: :distress:

Is that a hint? :laugh:

On a side note - because of you I didn't get any damned work done on my novel during my lunch break today. :mad: :laugh: After your kind remarks about "Innocent and Unknowing" I found myself rereading it (which I haven't done in forever). However, instead of enjoying myself, I discovered ssoo many things that I <i>don't</i> like about the story. Ugh. It'll be another five years before I finish my novel at this rate.

Revising is a writer's life, and I say that in total earnestness. I don't know who it was who came up with this cliche of the writer peacefully and serenely scribbling sentences as dictated to him/her by God, but I would be in favor of the death penalty in that one instance. :nod: All I can say is that dissatisfaction appears to be a sign of growth. And maybe you can cannibalize bits of that story to use in your novel; sometimes things fit together in an odd way that you don't see at first.

All time spent writing is time well spent learning the craft. Or so I'm told. ;)

Sugar

05-28-2005, 05:49 PM

Paula Vogel does that to me, too, and Beckett--make me literally feel fear. It's amazing writing, but depressing as f***.

Sorry I'm so late to the party, but now you got my attention. :laugh:

LOVE Beckett! And you're right, he can be truely frightening. But his perception is astounding. Love his one-acts, but I'm a big lover of short form anyway.

I don't know much Vogel, but I did work on a production of The Baltimore Waltz and it is probably one of the most moving theatrical experiences ever. And I wasn't an actor! I remember just crying after the show was over opening night. Me and the stage manager.

bushesandbriars

05-29-2005, 12:03 AM

LOVE Beckett! And you're right, he can be truely frightening. But his perception is astounding. Love his one-acts, but I'm a big lover of short form anyway.

His perception is amazing. I think I find a lot of his stuff more life-affirming in a weird way than any number of "happy" or "light" works by other writers--his vision of life is deeper. And he was passionate about his work; someone that passionate about literature--not just his own but other people's--isn't ready to kick off yet, whatever he or she writes.

I don't know much Vogel, but I did work on a production of The Baltimore Waltz and it is probably one of the most moving theatrical experiences ever. And I wasn't an actor! I remember just crying after the show was over opening night. Me and the stage manager.

What work did you do on BW? That play is just--I've read it a million times just to study the way she constructs it, and she's just a great, great writer.

Oh, and out of curiosity--is your user name because you're a fan of sweets, or is a Tori Amos reference? Or neither?

Sugar

05-29-2005, 04:10 PM

His perception is amazing. I think I find a lot of his stuff more life-affirming in a weird way than any number of "happy" or "light" works by other writers--his vision of life is deeper. And he was passionate about his work; someone that passionate about literature--not just his own but other people's--isn't ready to kick off yet, whatever he or she writes.

To me, ultimately much of his work is about perserverence, and respectively so. And yes, passionate and exacting he was. No one does Beckett differently than he ever did. Every movement, every word, as I'm sure you know, carefully constructed. And all plays need to be appreciated on their feet, but Becket, I think, more so than many. I saw Play at a small company in Philadelphia and it moved so fast I couldn't verbally follow everything going on, but the visceral response it created put me right there in the emotional moment. Brilliant.

What work did you do on BW? That play is just--I've read it a million times just to study the way she constructs it, and she's just a great, great writer.

I was the master electrician on the production. And it was a very small company which mean I was pretty much THE electrician on the production, short of a few extra hands for load in and strike. :lol: We really had an excellent cast. I should read more of her work. You know BW was a tribute to her brother, right? Makes it so much more touching.

Oh, and out of curiosity--is your user name because you're a fan of sweets, or is a Tori Amos reference? Or neither?

Neither, though I do like Tori. It's simply a combination of my first and last names, and it made a word. And it's kinda cute!